The new BMW M5 is full of firsts. It’s the first with more than 700 hp and 700 lb-ft of torque. It’s the first plug-in hybrid version. And because of those batteries, it’s also the first to weigh more than 5000 pounds. That makes it the first M5 slower to 60 than the car it replaces.
The other is only a first in the US. You can option it as a wagon, the first M5 Touring to make it to America. If you’re going to buy an M5, buy this one.
It really is an inflection point for the M5, a car that was built as the ultimate executive sedan. A sleeper that could get you to work quickly during the week or the south of France in absolute comfort on the weekend, with a stop at the race track in between, all without breaking a sweat. But as cars get bigger, heavier, more laden with tech, and need to be attractive to a wider swathe of the public than ever, some of that initial focus takes a back seat to making sure it’s a viable sales proposition.
BMW continually comes under fire for its cars getting bigger, more powerful, and more comfortable. You name it, someone has been critical of it. For many, the last BMW is always better than the one that replaces it. I tend to think it’s because BMW means so much to so many people that if the brand strays even an inch from the era someone holds dear, it’s lost its way.
This new M5 completes a transition that the M5 started nearly 15 years ago. That’s not necessarily a bad thing. Let me explain.
The Basics
Engine: 4.4-liter twin-turbo V-8
Gearbox: 8-speed automatic with integrated electric motor
Drivetrain: front-engine, four-wheel drive
Battery: 22.1 kWh (14.8 kWh usable) lithium-ion
Electric Output: 194 hp, 207 lb-ft
Gas Output: 577 hp @ 5,600 – 6,500 rpm, 553 lb-ft @ 1,800 – 5,400 rpm
System Output: 717 hp @ 5,600 – 6,500 rpm, 748 lb-ft @ 1,800 – 5,400 rpm
Weight: 5,530 lbs (mfr)
0 to 60: 3.5 seconds (mfr)
Base Price: $125,275
As Tested: $140,775
What Transition?
In 2010, the E60 M5 went out of production, a sad moment for fans of truly insane sedans. The 2000s were the pinnacle of sports sedans, and a BMW with a 500 hp, 5.0-liter V-10 that revved to 8250 rpm sat right at the top. I still watch Tiff Needell’s review of it annually, which I believe is one of the greatest car reviews of all time. It’s a car that has wormed its way into so many imaginations, the ultimate one-car solution. How do you even top that?
Well, you don’t. The less celebrated aspect of the E60 was its dive into technology, with multiple power modes, shift modes, traction control modes, and more. This is what the generations of M5 that followed emphasized: turbocharged V-8s with increasingly complex software meant to help the driver extract the most performance possible in any scenario. They also grew larger, heavier, and more luxurious. They got selectable four-wheel drive and torque converter automatics; the manual option went away. The M5 became more mass market, more the top trim level that showcased BMW’s technology prowess, and less the secret motorsport offering.
That emphasis on tech and luxury, along with increased weight and size, necessarily made for a change in focus. It was no longer equal parts commuter, highway bomber, and track car. The commuter and highway portions increased; the track part receded. Not that it became less capable on track, mind you, it just became a car that was used less on a closed course than before.
The M3 and M4 got larger and kept that track focus, filling the hole track rat M5 buyers craved. This let the M5 lean into being a GT car first, the ultimate fast family sedan and wagon. This M5, with massive power and massive comfort, completes the transition.
America-Sized Performance
I first drove the new M5 in Germany in late 2024. My main takeaway was just how big this car is. On narrow German roads and through roadworks on the highway, it felt like I was in constant danger of sideswiping someone. On the Autobahn, it was outrageous, a bullet that could get a well-to-do family to Nice from Munich in style for a lovely weekend on the Riviera.
Thing is, the new M5 is America-sized. Backroads in my area of the northeast are far wider than those in Germany, and the highways have more lanes than the Autobahn. It felt far more at home here than it did near its actual home.
As I experienced in Germany, the M5 could sit on the highway for hours at or far above the speed limit without any issues. The big difference is that while Germans have excellent lane discipline and don’t just sit in the left lane, drivers in my area just do whatever the hell they want. It’s infuriating. The M5 is built for taking advantage of gaps. A run from just under the speed limit to far over it to get around a line of cars stuck behind a Hyundai in the left lane and a group of tractor-trailers in the middle lane is right in the M5’s Q zone.
Our backroads, at least the ones I drove on, the M5 didn’t feel nearly as large as it did in Europe. Wider roads with higher speed limits got rid of the constant fear of either hitting an oncoming car or a bush when things got tight, but one constant issue prevailed: the M5 is just too fast and too capable to be truly engaging and fun at reasonable speeds. And if you were to try pushing it, try reaching that limit, you’ll be going very, very fast, well beyond speeds that cops will just issue a warning for. And the bigger problem is that if you run out of talent at the limit on the road, as many people who push the limit on public roads do, is that you’ll have 5,500 pounds of BMW wagon hurtling towards whatever might be in your way.
And since this is a full-fledged luxury/GT car now, it also needs to be comfortable and quiet, which means it needs to isolate the occupants from the road. It does that a little too well on a back road, feeling aloof and uninvolved in what’s going on. It needs to be moving very quickly, and the only place you can do that quickly is a highway.
On moderately paced runs on Lime Rock Park’s autocross, the M5 was a lot of fun, if not a bit of a monster truck compared to the Boxster GTS we brought the same day. Where the Boxster appreciates finesse and a delicate touch, the M5 needs to be pummeled into submission. A tight autocross course is not a place for 717 hp. That’s not to say it’s not fun. Put it in rear-wheel drive mode, and just thinking about the throttle will convert the tires into smoke. The long wheelbase makes it stable and controllable, and the brakes–this one has the optional $8,500 carbon ceramics–do an admirable job of controlling all that weight in the tighter corners. That’s all great, but the power and weight will absolutely shred the tires after just a few fast runs. A shame, since it is truly impressive how all the tech, the hybrid system, and the powertrain work together. And it’s a lot of tech. Too much.
Nerd Alert
I can’t tell you how many drive modes the M5 has. I mean, I guess I could, but it has so many separate settings hidden in different menus and various restrictions on what can be done together that it’d require a statistician to give you the numbers, and that’s not me. There are three settings for the drivetrain, regenerative braking, gearshift, and chassis. There are two settings for the steering, braking, and simulated engine noise. You can select if it’s in four-wheel-drive, four-wheel-drive sport, or rear wheel drive. You can only make it rear wheel drive if you turn off the traction control, which also has three settings. Then there’s an M Mode button that has road, sport, and track settings, and I’m not sure what any of them do.
Oh, and those three drivetrain settings I mentioned? They impact throttle response. There are five more settings that specifically deal with how the hybrid is deployed, depending on whether the M5 uses its 25-mile electric range first, starts as a hybrid, or uses battery power as extra boost to fill gaps left by the combustion engine. And after you decide which combinations you like the best (I assume after about 20 to 30 years of ownership), you can program your favorite two into the M1 and M2 buttons on the wheel. It’s crazy.
All these granular adjustments are hidden in the iDrive, not on any physical buttons anywhere in the cabin. Even the button for shift speed has been moved into the iDrive. iDrive may be a touch screen now, but it still has the buttons and the controller as well. This is a system that went from being universally derided when it was unveiled to the gold standard for infotainment systems over the last few years. It’s still great, and the controller makes it intuitive and easy to use, unlike touchscreens, where a bump in the road will move your hand from its intended target.
Then there’s the hybrid system, which is essentially the same as the one in the XM. So it’s a 4.4-liter turbocharged V-8 linked to a 22.1 kWh battery, 14.8 kWh of which is usable. That gives it 717 hp and 737 lb-ft of torque, along with an electric-only range of 25 miles, useful if you want to sneak around a neighborhood all quiet-like. The PHEV is really there to fill in gaps left by the turbocharged V-8. This engine, the S68, is a development of the one in the last M5, a car that had no issues being extraordinarily fast. Here, the PHEV makes everything feel more urgent, manic, particularly on rolling acceleration. It’s like an EV picking up speed. It also could have slightly more EV range, but the car will never fully discharge the battery. That’s because if it did and there was no hybrid assist to the engine and a loss of its 194 hp, the M5 would be noticeably slower. And we can’t have that, can we?
Wagon Lust
Wagons are having a moment in America with a generation that grew up riding backwards in Taurus Wagons. What was once the ubiquitous body style is now the choice for people who don’t want an SUV. BMW, Audi, Mercedes, Porsche, and Volvo offer the choice of sedan and wagon bodies in their mid-size sedan models. The M5 directly targets the Audi RS6 and the upcoming Mercedes E53 and, probably, E63 AMG wagons.
The wagon is always the more interesting body style in these low-volume cars, because it’s typically the rarest version. The M5 wagon has a lot going for it. It has essentially no weight penalty versus the sedan; at 5,530 pounds, the wagon is 140 pounds heavier than the sedan. It looks better than the sedan, the wagon body emphasizing its wide rear end. And it’s more practical, if that’s the sort of thing you care about. The price is also negligible, with the Touring a $2000 premium over the sedan. Buyers seem to agree it’s the one to pick, with BMW saying that the split between sedan and wagon is even. BMW had assumed one-third of the M5s would be Tourings, so that’s a substantial increase over the forecast.
The new M5 is what the model has been heading towards for more than a decade. Sure, it can still perform on a track or autocross, but it’s far more at home for the long haul. If there’s a better car for a cross-country road trip, I can’t think of one.
I can’t get over how much I hate that dash in a M car. I get putting the big long screen in a Hyundai Palisade (or a X5 I guess), but this is supposedly a performance oriented driver’s car. Give me a proper command center with a gauge cluster in front of me.
I love the fact that BMW finally brought an M Touring vehicle over here. I currently own a ’22 M3 in this same color combo, but with the manual. I thought for a hot minute about trying to stretch into one of these, as I really *love* the idea of the M wagon, but it would be one hell of a stretch, I really, really love the engagement of the manual, and I can’t get over the long iPad stuck to the dash. Lots to love here, but enough to stay away…
Now, if they bring the M3 touring over, with the manual, I’d buy that with a GM grade interior. 🙂
I would have loved to see the last gen M5 CS (frozen green metallic with the gold anodized wheels, please) in a wagon format. Ditch the over-the-top carbon sport buckets for slightly less extreme seating and it would have been sublime.. well, except for the price.
I don’t normally like green, but that is a gorgeous shade.
Not my kind of vehicle in a broad sense, but hooray for wagons!
I kinda like the idea of dialing in your driving modes to your preference incrementally. I’ve definitely had vehicles where a less sensitive gas pedal setting would be nice, and I’m sure there’s a lot more than just that kind of thing to play with, here.
And that’s definitely far too complicated to be done with physical buttons, but it shouldn’t matter since that would be done while parked, anyway.
Americanized, Americanized!
The M5 is Americanized!
Goes so fast, robs us blind.
And leaves the world behind.
–Rage Against the Ultimate Driving Machine
I read that to the tune of Spider-man
I would argue that just about any M5 or other vehicle at this price is irrelevant to the market as a whole.
I guess I’m glad that someone will get to enjoy these for the warranty period, because I sure don’t want to own one after the warranty.
random, but were you in Maine at all while driving this? I’ve only ever seen one of these on the road, and it was this exact spec like a week ago.
Also, nice to see your name pop up here. It’s kinda crazy how well the team is bringing back that lightning in a bottle magic from back in the day
It’s a beast. But that green color is really awful.
I love the green. To each his own.
I’m a believer that there is no “bad green” but this does come pretty close. I don’t know what it is, I feel like it works on the 1/2/3, but the 4/5+ need something darker and less comical or whimsical. It would help justify the price, IMO.
BMW’s burnt orange color would look really cool here 🙂
I’m definitely not against all greens. But this green just dull to me.
Please no more screens as instrument clusters, especially without any kind of hood. They look so cheap and stupid. This one looks awful, the S650 Mustang looks awful, the CT5 looks awful, etc. In Kias and Hyundais I still don’t like it but can forgive the desire for cost savings. But in cars like this? Come on.
Without a hood, it’s WAY too easy for my wife to tell me to slow down without first having to crane her neck and lean in my direction first. I like to know her moves are telegraphed.
“The 2000s were the pinnacle of sports sedans, and a BMW with a 500 hp, 5.0-liter V-10 that revved to 8250 rpm sat right at the top. “
Except for the little problem that engine had with biodegradable bearings.
Ya my 2007 N54 has something to say about the the pinnacle of sports sedans. At least it would if it ever worked.
“Do you want a big fast sports wagon?”
“YES!”
“Do you want this big new BMW M5 Wagon?”
“Eww – Gross- No”
This “wagon” weighs more than a lot of body on frame trucks
No disagreement.
It’s stupid ugly/heavy.
And the Ginza By Night Billboard instrumental panel and those overly-complex wheels are amazingly idiotic.
Good news: US getting a badass wagon!!!
Bad news: You’ll have to forsake you kid’s college education to buy it.
They’ll get over it.
Good news: Being a car mechanic will soon be more profitable than a college degree.
Even better news: Son, I’m buying a new M5!
Only one pic of the seats? None of the back row?? What about the massive cavern created with the seats down? Tisk tisk.
or that cavern filled with cases of beer?
No. They are not. I wish that they were. There are a few cool uberwagons. The aforementioned RS6 Avant. The new M5. Then there’s Volvo and Mercedes. Subaru is ditching the US with the 2026 Outback (barf). I shouldn’t by a $70K wagon if I want to remain married. I _can’t_ buy a $150K wagon if I want to remain alive.
The wagons we DON’T get? Those are having a moment. Somewhere else.
The A4 and A6 Avant. (The Allroads barely count)
The 3 and 5 series Estates
The Subaru Lavorg
The VW Golf and Passat wagons
Not to mention all of the manufacturers with wagons that we just don’t get. Skoda, for instance.
I rented a 3-Series estate a few months ago on a trip. Lovely car. I’d buy one in a heartbeat.
Subaru? I love my current Outback. Let me buy a Levorg and I’ll be a repeat (repeat) customer. I won’t touch the new Outback. I’ll suck it up and get an Allroad.
I am SO damn sick of SUVs and CUVs.
I hate to admit that I may become a repeat repeat repeat repeat (three new, one used) Subaru buyer if they gave me a decent wagon. Unfortunately (or fortunately, as much as I don’t love Subarus) for me, decent would have to be non-cvt and at least the 2.5l engine, which is not happening.
Subaru, bring us the Levorg or WRX the Crosstrek. You’d have an actual unique vehicle to sell (again), and may be able to salvage some WRX sales numbers from your questionable decisions with the current WRX.
Recent Outback XTs I’ve driven actually might cause me to look seriously at one in the next couple of years, maybe even a Wilderness model. The turbocharger really helps solve one of the biggest issues with the NA Subarus: the sound of the engine. Then there’s the extra power so Subaru doesn’t have to bake in an annoyingly aggressive throttle response.
The Outback is big for my taste but since Subaru will never offer an actual wagon on the Impreza platform it will have to do.
As for a WRX Crosstrek I just don’t see it. Subaru will just give us a much-improved hybrid and continue to sell as many as it can build.
Have you driven a 2020+ non-XT Outback? They’re pretty dang quiet…I actually wish the engine in ours made more noise.
Yeah, I drove a number of Subarus–’22 non-XT, ’24 Onyx XT, various Imprezas/Crosstreks–while shopping around and the ’22 was much, much quieter than the older Outbacks. I should give those another shot.
I wasn’t sold on buying a CVT when we bought our ’21 Outback, but I’ve absolutely changed my mind on it…as a daily driver/road tripper it’s fantastic. I’m changing the fluid every 45k miles so hopefully it’ll last a while.
It’s not exactly a fun car, so having a manual or slushbox wouldn’t be the best choice for it IMO.
Show me a wagon priced about $1,500 above the sedan, NOT on par with the roughly equivalent CUV (+$5,000 or more). Wagons are almost a cliche for ultra-wealthy people now.
I loved our Skoda Octavia estate rental in the UK a couple years ago. It’s about the same interior size as my B5 Passat wagon here, but smaller outside, lighter, sportier and much more efficient (doubly so with tdi).
Your comment nailed it. Wagons are now “different” and very clearly class signifiers. When everyone else at the yacht club has a Land Rover or hideous Merc, you can pull up in the stunner M5 longroof and still turn heads. SUV/CUVs are for the pleebs, wagons are for the captains of industry.
If new Euro imports to the US were legal, I guarantee we’d do our shopping there. I’d be very happy with the manual 89-hp Skoda Fabia hatchback we recently had as a rental in Spain. Great little car, nice simple interior, enough power for my lazy commute while returning fantastic fuel economy.
For my wife, an Octavia wagon, perhaps a Corolla Hybrid wagon. So many nice choices.
Should have started with the wagon lust.
And, it’s a wagon. Capacity numbers?? I need to know what I can fit in it.
No, I won’t be buying one. I’m not made of money.
And MPG?
This weighs as much as an all wheel drive Chevy Tahoe. A rear wheel drive Tahoe is actually LIGHTER than this. Apparently in practice these are barely cracking double digit fuel economy when operating with the ICE engine on. What is the fucking point?
Compared to the last gen it’s slower, 1,000 pounds-ish heavier, somehow less efficient, significantly more complicated, and uglier. I was going to say “I can’t remember being less interested in an M car” but then I remembered the war crime that is the XM is still in production and using the same stupid powertrain that offers 0 benefits over the last one other than a short EV range.
So the M5 DOES have that going for it. I’d rather have it than an XM. So…job well done I guess, BMW? I have less than 0 interest in any of this stuff. There is absolutely no reason for this, the C63, Panamera, RS6 (which isn’t even hybrid!), etc. to weigh as much as body on frame trucks. It’s just lazy engineering.
My Colorado ZR2 diesel is 500lbs lighter than this M5..
Jesus Christ lmao
I watched the Throttle House vid on the X6M competition and the RS Q8 .. those both weigh under 5500lbs, not by much, but still..
“It’s all computer in there!”
That Maw – my God…
Thanks also for this review Travis! 🙂
While I can of course understand the appeal of this car, I couldn’t imagine owning one, even if I were the sort of person who’d just go out and buy a six-figure German bundle of valves, solenoids, and microprocessors, knowing full well what it’s gonna to be like to own a decade hence (I’m not). It’s a handsome wagon (though not as nice as those from Volvo IMO) but the nose is awkward, if not quite as ugly as those on some other current BMWs. I’m glad that it comes in green of course, but that particular shade (which seems close to the one offered on current Alfas) is less than ideal (IMO)… it looks like something you might see on a much, much cheaper car, even if the quality of the paint job itself is probably great.
I know it’s not in the same ballpark as this 700 horsepower technobeast, but I’d opt for a V60 longroof instead (which isn’t exactly cheap itself, even if it’s less than half the price of this BMW) and put the rest of the money into my IRA. 😉
Counterpoint. This thing is *idiotic*. It will be NO faster from point A to point B in the US than my 328! wagon, and I guarantee that with RWD, a stickshift, and a lot fewer computers in the way *I* will be having a lot more fun than the conductor of this blunderbuss. And despite having not being a PHEV, my car will use less fuel doing it.
The only thing this really does well is advertise in no uncertain terms the size of your wallet. Sad.
As I have said here many times, if you just want your internal organs re-arranged by g-forces, a season ticket to Six Flags is a whole lot cheaper and safer than a modern fast car.
And I can likely pace you in my ’14 Camry Hybrid. Completely comfortable for 12+ hour drives and with a 600 mile range.
I’m old enough to recall the Brougham era when ANY European saloon was lightyears above domestic product in handling. Those years are long gone, and ANY everyday modern sedan will run rings around most ’80s performance cars. I find this reacetrack bragging rights thing obscene.
I am right there with you. Reality today is that in most cases, a base Corolla could keep pace with any of us. The car is just never the limitation today, assuming you prefer not to have too many points on your license – and you can probably go faster in a car that “flies under the radar” which an M5 wagon most definitely doesn’t.
Cars passed stupid in performance years ago. I’d rather drive a bog-stock ’85 535i that I once owned than this track missile. A car that you could put sideways at will at more-or-less legalish speeds with a huge grin on your face. This tank is far too fat to actually take on a track – can you even begin to imagine the cost in tires and brakes to track a 700hp+ 2.75 TON car? Put two Americans and two kids in this thing with some luggage and it is going to be every bit of *3 tons*. Crikey. You should need a CDL to drive this.
Of all the cars I’ve owned and sold I may miss my ’94 5 speed SHO the most. About the perfect blend of everyday useful and performance. I ripped up the Blue Ridge Parkway having a blast at less than supralegal speeds. 24 years ago when I bought used it the performance was still about par with most anything except new Vette’s and M series BMW.
I also miss my ’89 XJ Cherokee – slow car fast and an absolute beater.
Younger people today don’t understand what an absolute revelation even the regular Taurus\Sable was in 1986. It was like a spaceship from the future inside and out compared to the dreck GM and Chrysler were pumping out, and the ride and handling were so far beyond any other American car of that time it wasn’t even comparable. And then they got that Yamaha V6 and stuffed it in there. 🙂
And then Ford had to drop the ball with reliability, and then the awful ovaloid 3rd gen car, then the boring dreck that followed on from that. Sigh.
I have always wanted an SHO wagon like Car & Driver whipped up back in the day. How cool would that be?
My folks bought a ’92 Cherokee new when I was in college. That thing was soooo cool at the time, and I drove it as much as I could pry the Old Man’s hands off it. I would love to have one. And with the HO 4.0L it was an absolute ripper for the day. Waaay faster than it had handling, though for a brick the handling wasn’t terrible.
The M5 sedan has been irrelevant for years. BMW gave up on making cars with any feel or engagement and focused on spreadsheet performance that can’t be used anywhere they are driven or by anybody who buys them. They are automotive code pieces. This one just happens to be a code piece in wagon form.
Did you mean ‘codpiece’ Ignatius? I think maybe you did, and I agree with/approve of your choice of words. 🙂
https://www.google.com/search?client=opera&q=codpiece&sourceid=opera&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8
I did! That is what I get for using autocorrect.
🙂 I thought so.
Color? Beautiful. Form factor? Awesome. Wheels? Very cool.
But…that vestigial schnoz block, which is presumably for radar…that’s hideous. There has to be a better way to integrate that thing without making it look like someone glued an 80s brick cell phone to the grille. C’mon folks, we have the technology, surely.
My thought too. Looks like a woodchuck’s tooth on the grill.
Curious why you think this is the case. I’m a little biased of course, but my opinion is that the best ever sports sedan is being made right now.
I guess if you like to go stupidly fast by telling a bunch of computers what to do you might be right. I’d rather go a lot slower while having a lot more fun doing it myself. And for that, the turn of the century plus or minus a decade is the sweet spot.
????
I still have RWD, a manual transmission, and fully defeatable computers should I choose to.
To each their own, but slowness for its own sake is never a virtue for me. I can always choose to drive slower if I want to.
I don’t get the point of paying for vastly more performance than I can ever actually use in the real world, but you do you.
Like I said, a season ticket to Six Flags is a lot cheaper and safer. And I am no fan of that sort of thing either.
I’m in your camp… if I can’t ever use it WGAF. In that regard my ’94 SHO 5 speed was about perfect. You could use all the power and better suspension in the real world without killing someone or going to jail. Same my modded ’96 4.6 V8 T-bird. Usable power.
I drove a Viper ACR at Skip Barber in 2000, it was a hoot but way more power than you would ever need in reality.
This is not the malaise era when cars could not get out of their own way. My wife’s Corolla likely out accelerates a stock Fox body 5.0 Mustang.
I usually find cars that can’t get out of their own way (like my ’74 Spitfire) to be waaaay more fun than cars where you are a toe-twitch away from getting arrested (like my M235i). As the author says here – at sane speeds cars like this M5 (and my M235i) are boooooooooring. You don’t even feel like you are moving until you are doing 100mph.
That M235i was fun in Germany where you could do 30-155 leaving a rest area perfectly legally, but it was just frustrating in the US where more than 5 seconds of full throttle was “go to jail” speeds. The GTI that replaced it was slower but rather more entertaining.
That’s why Miata is always the answer.
I got rid of my SR-swapped S13 for the Miata, which can be wrung out on public roads without much risk to myself or the world around me.
Sometimes the answer is Fiata, or Spitfire, or 128i convertible. 🙂 But ultimately, good handling, decent steering feel, and just enough performance to be entertaining is all you need. 0-60 in 6 seconds is more than quick enough for a modern. My Spitfire won’t break 12, but it feels like you are strapped to a missile. Better to have a car that feels fast than one that IS fast.
My Miata is very loud and has very short gearing. It feels a lot more exciting than it should for its abilities.
Indeed, that is most of the charm. I had a Fiata, potato, potatoe.
I’m jealous. I should have pulled the trigger on a few Miata’s on the past, but life (kids) just got in the way. I now have right of first refusal on an ’90 ZR1 Corvette, targa top. I’ve said, I WANT IT. I will do everything I can to make this happen.
I have a friend who is my hero. He adopted an orphaned kid from Cambodia as a single dad, and for at least the first 10 years of the kid’s life, his only car was a Miata. In MAINE. He put snow tires on it and it did just fine in the snow. Imported a factory on-off switch for the passenger airbag from Japan and had it installed. He kept the Miata for nearly 20 years.
Just because you are a dad doesn’t mean you can’t have a fun car. 🙂
I was thinking ’70s and ’80s American iron which sounded cool on their 11 second 0-60 runs. I had a ’78 LTDII coupe in high school, 2bbl 351W. Through first it pulled awesome, then it hit 2nd and all forward momentum ceased. Highway gearing and a 3 speed auto, plus late ’70s emissions tuning were not a performance mix. I got 9 mpg all day, everyday.
I kinda want to get another one (LTDII, Elite, T-Bird, Torino, Cougar), now that it’s far past the 25 yr emissions test benchmark in my state. Advance the timing, install a small 4bbl and better intake (or a Sniper EFI). Pull the cats (maybe installing better, new tech) and go true dual exhaust. Install Gear Vendors OD on the AMX/C4/C6 or just an earlty ’80s AOD. Upgrade the axle to a 3.08, 3.27 or 3.83. Anything is better than a 2.73. Guarantee it would wake this beast up. It’s never gonna be a canyon carver – but you can at least make one ride right.
My benchmark is Dad’s old ’90 Town Car. HO 302, AOD, 3.08 rear and dual exhaust. It would cruise cross country at 80-90 with no stress on the drivetrain.
I think the point of a sports sedan for many of us is that it’s our one do-all car; many folks don’t have the option of a RWD car with a 6 spd, and fully-defeatable computers as a side piece.
For the rest of us, if you want a manual, there are exceedingly few sedans that double as Saturday morning driver’s cars.
The example given in the article was a V10 E60 M5, which is hardly any more of a daily driver than my Cadillac (which I do drive daily).
I think he means the pinnacle in terms of variety of sports sedans available. That seems accurate given that manufactures have reduced their sedan offerings to focus on SUVs/Crossovers/whatever. With the exception of Cadillac no domestic OEM is even making a sedan right now.
If I was where I am in life today back then I would be doing 1yr leases so I could try them all. Almost infinite variety. Though for me personally, the sweet spot would be the late 80s to early 90s before the French and Italians pulled out of the US.
A hardly exclusive list from that time:
BMW 3 and 5 series, with both “iS” and “M” versions.
Mercedes 190E 16Vs and 300/400/500E
Audi 90 and 100 turbos and quattros
Volvo and Saab Turbos.
VW Jetta GLI and Passat
Alfa Romeo 164s
Peugeot 505s
Acura Legends
Lexus LS400s (not that sporting, but still)
Sundry early Infinitis, especially the Q45
Nissan Maxima
Oldsmobile Aurora
Pontiac 6000STE
Ford Taurus SHO
Dodge and Plymouth turbos.
And then the oddball stuff – but still cool:
Merkur Scorpio and XR4ti
Rover Sterling
I am SURE I am forgetting a few. And then an even BIGGER list of “sports coupes”, as everybody and their uncle made them.
And half of them were available as hatches or wagons in addition to sedans.
We live in the worst timeline today. As sea of indistinguishable dull 2-box blobs, mainly in shades of gray. With the electric ones being even more indistinguishable – one golf cart pretty much drives the same as all of them.
College pal of mine (mid ’90s) had an ’88 Legend. That car completely blew my mind, I drove it a handful of times and it was a plane above the domestic product I was used too. Also. blue on a wonderful blue mouse fur interior (I like color and prefer fabric to leather anyday).
Another buddy had an ’87 Prelude…. So much the same.
I’m driving an ’88 Regal, with an auto 2.8 and Fischer Price interior. In some ways my ’84 Fox body LTD with the blown engine was better. It at least was honest.
I made it my purpose during my 20s and 30s to own many of the cars that I had lusted for from the pages of Car and Driver when I was a kid. Some of my favorites have been a 1990 325is, 1991 325i convertible, 1991 900 Turbo, and a 1990 Prelude Si 4WS.
My wife was driving a red C30 R-Design with a 6 speed when I met her. Needless to say I had to have that combo too.
Same here. MANY Volvos, Saabs, Peugeots, BMWs, VWs from the 80s-90s. Well-used of course. Into the ’00s I had more money and they got newer, then new for many years. Now I am DONE with new cars, and will be going back to the stuff I actually like.
Case in point, Hertz gave me a shiny new G70 tonight. Objectively, it is a perfectly nice premium car. Subjectively it does absolutely nothing for me at all. Bland personified, with a 4cyl econobox soundtrack. Yuck.
Why not? An e60 M5 is just as much of a daily driver as my 328!, just for people with way more money/less common sense/who are trying to compensate for something, take your pick.
I drive a Blackwing daily man, you don’t need to convince me.
The guy I was responding to was the one who brought up a “side piece”.
Which is why my ’11 3-series BMW wagon is a perfect do-it-all car. Wagon, 6spd, RWD, sufficient space for life’s necessities assuming one isn’t breeding a soccer team single-handedly. Available with AWD if you don’t know how to drive. It does everything well, going out to dinner, going around a racetrack or belting down a back road in Maine, bringing an assembled grill home from Lowe’s. While costing an amount a mere IT geek could (barely – I admit it was a stretch) afford new, and returning 25-30mpg and being as reliable as death and taxes the past 14 years I have owned it.
Sadly, the auto industry has forgotten how to make such a thing – or just can’t be bothered anymore.
new car bad old car good!!!1! i will NOT elaborate!!
Many such cases
Old car sedan. New car wagon. I’m hoping they realize some people still want wagons and offer more again.
I think people have rose colored glasses for that sports sedan era because it was more or less anarchy. There were multiple V10 and V12 options, almost all of them were available as manuals, and even the “lesser” models still had V8s under the hood. It’s kind of wild to look back and think that there was a time that an Audi S4 had a naturally aspirated V8, a manual transmission, and came in wild colors.
Some of it was still vaguely attainable as well. Getting into an S4 or M3 or CT5V was about the equivalent of $60,000 ish today (give or take a bit) and those cars were properly hard edged. You could conceivably find your way into one as an average person with wise financial planning.
It ain’t like that anymore. That amount of money gets you an automatic only, likely hybridized, emissions nerfed turbo 4 or 6. Those cars are also soft edged and meant for the masses outside of the CT4V. At the end of the day it just isn’t quite the same. The CT5V BW that you own and adore is a $100,000+ proposition, and unfortunately 99% of people can’t afford that.
I think the sort of democratization of power, wild powertrain choices, and prevalence of manual transmissions are what people long for. That stuff still exists, but it’s no longer attainable
Respectfully, I think the rose colored glasses are on your face.
A 2009 CTS-V was $59K to start ($89K today) A 2025 Blackwing is $95K.
A 2009 S4 was $57K to start ($87K today) A 2025 S4 is cheaper in nominal dollars!!! $54,900 to start.
A 2009 M3 was $55K to start ($84K today) A 2025 M3 starts at $77K.
A 2009 M5 was $85.5K ($130K) Per the article, it starts at $125K now
None of these cars, or their 2025 equivalents, have changed much MSRP-wise. Most are cheaper if anything.
I understand the point about less involvement, fewer manuals, more anonymous turbo engines. I still am not sure that makes that previous era the “peak”.
Looks like I was indeed wearing the rose colored glasses
Simply entering a number into an inflation calculator does not tell the whole story. Though avg new car prices increased 109% since 2009, avg wages have only increased about 64% and you’re average out-of-pocket medical expenses rose by 75%.
I’m not sure that you’re wearing rose colored glasses.
Putting old prices into an inflation calculator tells the complete story when the story is the price of an item then and now.
I should have also mentioned that the way CPI is calculated has changed several times over the years. It can be a useful tool when taken in aggregate but it becomes significantly less useful when trying to make the case about a specific item.
At least with used car shortage of 2022 I got 62.5% (thanks Carmax!) of what I paid for my 13 year old car at trade in with 80,000 miles on it
But there were a decent amount of ‘sport-ish’ sedans in the $30-$40k range that could still be had with decent power, manual shift and RWD / AWD and often a wagon variant was available.