Driving is not as simple as it seems. It’s not just about the physical control of a car and understanding what signs and road markings mean; there’s an entire other dimension to driving that requires some sort of basic understanding of how human culture works. That’s because cars aren’t driven on neat grids of roads populated with tidy buildings and surrounded by other vehicles piloted by careful, attentive beings dedicated to following rules; cars are driven in the messy real world, which is a colorful, fragrant minestrone of chaos and madness, and this sort of disorder doesn’t constitute “edge cases,” it’s just how reality works. And it’s up to the automated vehicles (AV) to adapt to it, not the other way around. There was a sobering example of this just yesterday, when a Waymo robotaxi blocked an ambulance during an active shooter situation.
The incident happened about 2 am on Sunday, when a 53-year old man shot at patrons at an outdoor bar in Austin, Texas, resulting in 14 people injured and two killed, including the shooter. It’s all tragic, and the investigation is ongoing, and this isn’t the place to discuss that. We can discuss the behavior of a Waymo robotaxi that arrived in the area of the attack.
A group of people at a nearby club ordered the Waymo to take them home, unaware of what was going on at the nearby bar where the shooting was taking place. When the Waymo arrived in the area, it identified a road blockage, and began to execute a U-turn. While in mid-U-turn, an ambulance approached, which seemed to confuse the Waymo and left it blocking the road perpendicularly, as can be seen in this video of the incident:
There’s no way around it, this is pretty unacceptable behavior from an AV. It’s hard to get much worse than blocking an ambulance (and an entire road) in an actively dangerous area. In the video you can see that a police officer had to actually get into the car and drive it away manually, which is both good that it was possible to do so (this process generally requires the car to contact an overseer to get permission and unlock, which seems to have happened) and also terrible that this was what was required to move the robotaxi out of the way.
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I’m confused by a lot of what happened here that led the Waymo to be flustered and block the whole road; as we have discussed before, Waymo does monitor their cars with human beings at remote locations, and these humans are supposed to step in to help when the car becomes confused. Where were those “fleet response agents” during this event? This seems like a textbook case for the need to reach out for immediate human assistance.
The fact that the Waymo robotaxi ended up in this area at all should be a very loud message that we are not doing enough – and by “we” I don’t just mean Waymo and other automated vehicle robotaxi companies, I mean emergency service agencies, local governments, and national government, and everyone. There needs to be clear procedures and expectations of what AVs should do around emergency vehicles enforced from above, not left to individual companies.
In a case like this, not only should the robotaxi be able to identify emergency vehicle lights and audio cues, but there should be cooperation between emergency services and police and the robotaxi companies so a signal can be sent to all AVs on the road identifying what streets are on police or other sort of lockdown, and then those vehicles should simply not be able to go to such areas.
I describe situations like this in my book, Robot Take the Wheel, if you’re curious, and how it should be up to us to decide how we want these AVs to behave in situations like this. We, as a culture and society, should decide the rules, and it’s up to the AV companies to follow those parameters.
In this case, why are there not modes of behavior for robotaxis? When an emergency is detected, either via audio-visual cues or direct information broadcast to the car or whatever, there should be a special set of emergency situation rules that are then followed – an emergency mode – which would prioritize getting the hell out of the way of other vehicles as quickly as possible, being able to listen and act upon verbal commands from law enforcement officers or other emergency workers, and, of course, contact a live human to help manage the situation and be on call to communicate with people on the scene.
I don’t really understand why these types of situations don’t seem to be a bigger priority? We’ve seen other dangerous and seemingly easy-to-avoid mistakes from Waymo AVs before: in one case, a Waymo not understanding how to behave around a school bus, and another case where a Waymo hit a kid (they were not seriously hurt, luckily) in a school zone. Both of these situations involved very specific circumstances that should be relatively easy to detect – when in a school zone, an extra cautious mode should be employed, and when around a visually distinct school bus, the rules that define how to drive around one should take priority.
Maybe something like this is happening, and I just can’t perceive it? Whatever is happening, I think we can safely say it’s not enough, and if we are serious about having self-driving vehicles on public roads, standards for behavior during emergency situations should be defined, deployed, and understood by any company wishing to operate AVs in public and emergency responders who may have to deal with these vehicles in difficult and dangerous situations.
It’s also worth investigating how AVs can not just get out of the way, but could also possibly be used to actively help. An organized emergency policy for AVs could include the ability to take control of any AVs in the area to use for blocking off roads or helping to corral other vehicles away from dangerous areas; if these machines are going to exist on public roads, we can at least get them to help when we need them, right?
It does not seem like the Waymo, in this case, contributed to any significant harm or delays, thanks to the quick thinking of both the ambulance driver and the police officer who eventually moved the Waymo out of the way. But that doesn’t mean every time will be as forgiving. This is a real issue that demands serious attention.
I reached out to Waymo for comment, but they declined to give a statement at this point.
Top graphic image: KXAN on YouTube
After watching the video, I’d like to echo the comment made already (I think) that the silver sedan at the corner could have moved and that looks like then the ambulance could get by (at least early on). Those folks in that sedan didn’t seem to be thinking of that, you can see at least one person in there.
Good the cop was able to move the Waymo after a bit. Maybe AV companies should have set “cop override” codes that the cops can have on hand rather than having to call in to the company? Big potential for abuse though.
As for just shoving it out of the way, if there are human passengers, you could be adding to the ambulance’s customers.
Also, looks like in this case, the clot of stopped first responder vehicles is just .5-1 blocks away. But in an active shooter situation, seconds can count.
Nevertheless, Waymo should have this situation figured out by now. Is it going to take a giant lawsuit to make them do something?
This is why I like the Scandinavian fining model: fines are based on the violator’s capacity to pay.
How much money does Waymo have on hand? The fine for blocking an emergency vehicle where I live is $250-500 depending on circumstances; if you’re rich enough you generate that kind of money faster than it takes to read this paragraph. I don’t know if Waymo is money-positive yet, but so egregiously failing at something important like this is the sort of thing you want them to remember, and work harder at preventing because the last time left a mark. Like, “Sirens detected, pulling over now. Passengers please remain seated.” Better to err on the side of pulling over unnecessarily, than hampering actual humans doing something important.
I was wondering why the big honkin’ Ambulance didn’t just start pushing it out of the way. Just inch up to it and once touching, then apply go pedal a bit more until the problem is solved.
Send the bill to Waymo for any damages to the ambulance.
This is basically the deal when firefighters need to deal with stuff in the way, such as a car blocking a hydrant. They will bust out your windows and run the hose through the car.
Ambulances are rather expensive – $350K and up. Not really what you want to use for some demolition derby action.
You can see the aftermarket pusher bar bumper in the video.
Yes, you can. That doesn’t mean the Waymo wouldn’t take an odd spin and hit the front corner of the aluminum body.
I have to agree. It appeared that both the ambulance and Explorer squad car had push bars, so you know, push! There would have been minimal damage to these steel items. Waymo should pay for it anyway. (No one cars about the Jaguar, so that’s a non-issue.)
And 10 years later after years in court you might get it
When reached for comment the Waymo in question simply responded, “Please place the items in the bagging area.”
Recent precedent suggests a couple of ICE agents would have made quick work of the situation. /s
Except the Waymo was white..
Or we could just ban the damn things and move on.
I’d like to contribute to your campaign..
Ludites 2026..
Clear Procedure: Use the Bash Bar on the front of the emergency vehicle to move the fucker out of the way.
Once it starts costing these companies monetarily to have freezer temp iq level “autonomous” heavy machinery then they’ll do better.
Money talks, Bullshit walks
Yeah another reason why I think autonomous vehicles will NOT replace privately owned vehicles.
But having said that, there’s a lot of stupidity going on in that scene.
The car to the right of the ambulance could back up or move out of the way and then the ambulance should be able to squeeze by on the right.
Or the cop on the other side of the road behind that waymo could have gotten his stupid ass out of the way and the ambulance could have squeezed by behind the waymo.
Exactly now sure the car behind him was only 6 inches behind him but so what shove him out of the way
There needs to be clear procedures and expectations of what AVs should do around emergency vehicles enforced from above, not left to individual companies OTHERWISE THEY SHOULD NOT BE PERMITTED TO OPERATE.
FIFY.
“In-The-Way-mo” was just screaming to be in the header graphic here.
COTD
Careful, this all sounds far too rational and thought out to appeal the tech bro cohort damn the torpedoes ship it and debug into existence approach to engineering.
Are Waymos programmed to stop moving when they detect emergency vehicles nearby?
Seems like a likely possibility – the car thought it was staying out of the way of the ambulance but something made it freeze before it got to the shoulder.
No, they are not required to move. Just the meatbags. The moving out of the way requires a change order to fix it
I don’t want AVs to be making UTurns. I don’t even trust 99% of humans with this maneuver. I (naively) thought AVs COULDN’T make illegal turns. What good are the three laws of robotics if we program them be overridden BY THE ROBOTS?
that’s just it, all of the “laws” of robotics/AI -asimov’s, tilden’s, sadella’s, pasquale’s – are merely suggested guidelines.
laws?
we don’t need no stinkin’ laws!
Oh, you. So optimistic
In Maryland U-turns aren’t illegal unless posted. I don’t know about Texas
I’m talking about this mid-block nonsense, not at an intersection with (for example) a left-turn arrow. Here (in WA) it’s basically legal only WHEN posted.
Mid block is allowed in Maryland, as long as you have clear visibility, and all directions
I can’t wait for the canned corporate response in two days saying ‘We’ve looked into this incident and are deeply sorry for what happened. We’ll be doing everything in our power to make sure it doesn’t happen again!’ while changing absolutely nothing about their internal operations.
Obligatory South Park https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9u0EL_u4nvw
God help the human driver that makes this sort of stupid move. But, since it’s a huge corporation behind this “autonomous” vehicle, it’s just a bit of bad publicity for a couple of news cycles.
Any human driven without the wherewithal to move out of an ambulance’s way in such a situation rather than remain frozen blocking multiple lanes of traffic should lose their license.
Should is the key word. Most just go about their day without any consequences to their actions. On the other hand Waymo will look at the data, determine cause and then send out an update the their entire fleet. On more edge case eliminated.
Humans not only make the same mistakes over and over again but every new driver learns by making mistakes.
Ha. I work in audio/visual (the other av) and “should work” is a running gag. At least projectors don’t drive
Human drivers block emergency vehicles all the time.
Yeah, but usually a loudspeaker saying ‘You in the white Buick Enclave, move over!’ tends to solve the problem.
Usually but not always. I’ve seen people stubbornly sit at a light for the entire cycle blocking an ambulance instead of moving out of the way. All the while the ambulance has lights flashing, siren going, and blasting away with their horn.
It is an edge case but that we what we are talking about here. Held to the same standard that some people want to apply to AV’s a single edge case failure means humans should be banned.
I actually own an Express 4500 type 3 ambulance. No lights and sirens but it is a huge red box. I’ve had multiple people turn left RIGHT in front of me requiring me to slam on my brakes. Completely clueless that I was there.
Not an analogous example. Humans are individuals, these robots are not.
Humans being individuals is the problem when it comes to trying to reduce road fatalities and injuries.
Your comparison of humans to robots in regards to banning the latter is what I’m addressing. Moreover, these robots are the worst of both worlds in that they run on algorithms that can’t handle rather common edge cases that are written by moron humans. The lack of accountability and blatant incompetence within the programming industry overall is shocking and we give up more control every year to these people I wouldn’t choose to trust to teach kindergarteners how to make pasta faces on paper plates.
Waymo outperforms humans in the cities it operates. That is what the data says.
I was skeptical myself before I actually rode in a Waymo in Phoenix last year. To and from the airport was a Uber and Lyft respectively. All the other trips were with Waymo. Experiencing it first hand there is no way I’m using Uber or Lyft in a city that offers Waymo service. They are simply that much better.
Maybe compared to the bottom end of human drivers, but they’re definitely not good in edge cases, of which there are many, and they still operate in pretty easy environments.
They are better than the average driver, in the cities that Waymo operates. They crash less and have less severe crashes when they do.
Yes, there are edge cases to work out. Humans also have edge cases but they just get overlooked because we excuse human stupidity but expect robots to be perfect.
Meanwhile, those edge cases are being tested out on people who did not sign up to do free beta testing for the rich parasites who own these corporations. Amazingly enough, a lot of us like driving and as these things do best when they’re surrounded by other robots and the billionaires who create this garbage control the government, it’s not too hard to predict what will happen to individual driving when manipulated statistics show them as operating well enough for the government puppets. The defense of this is frankly disgusting and seems one step away from arguing the superiority of fleshlights and having AI do our art because the computer can do it “better”.
We share the roads every day with human edge cases – people that either don’t have the skills to drive or don’t bother to put down their phones and actually drive. That is reality.
As to AVs getting so good that driving is banned – unlikey. We still have motorcycles on the road today when by any objective safety or environmental criterial they should have been banned years ago. Which is good because I like riding my motorcycles
However, with your comments about the tech industry being parasites it doesn’t sound like this is even about whether or not autonomous vehicles work.
All driving is an edge case. There are an infinite numbers of variables
Out performing humans is a pretty low bar
True but that is the bar. (Or at least it should be)
Outperforming humans saves lives and reduces injuries. 40K +/- people in the USA die every year in traffic crashes. Even a 10% reduction would be huge.
I got flipped off by a passenger in a livery Escalade who was blocking me through an intersection where i had the green light. Ugh. Assholes
I expect this will be solved soon, in, um, 50 years or so. Maybe.
Also, I am fully in my old man phase, and still don’t see how the whole AV thing will ever be settled software.
This feels like weird offline racing game AI behavior. Like when they have an off and then start going in circles.
But I don’t see anything changing politically soon. Big Tech has big money, and a lot of pride. They’ll do everything they can to keep the government from interfering with regulation, until they trip up so badly that they no longer possess the goodwill nor the money to lobby in Washington.
In the meantime they have the knee pads and shiny trinkets firmly in play for the -ahem, leadership in order to buy favor and exclusions.
EMS should send out a signal that forces Waymos to pull over asap. The 911 central command center should have a button that grounds all autonomous vehicles in the city in case of an emergency like this so they can’t interfere out of sheer stupidity.
It would probably be a wet dream of EMS to force ALL DRIVERS to pull over.
They already send out a signal that clearly translates as “get out of the way”: the lights and the siren.
Which mostly works, on humans.
There are a ton of edge cases where AVs or humans can’t really get out of the way. I hate the times when I’m stopped in the #1 lane at a stoplight of a multi lane street, and hear a siren. Even if I have enough room to change lanes w/o the car in front of me moving, there’s no place to go. The other 1,2,or 3 lanes are jammed w/cars, so the emergency vehicles have to take to the opposing lanes to go around the stopped cars.
Also, in our podunk town where a lot of the roads appear to be slightly widened and paved cow paths, there’s often no shoulder to pull over to.
I always like when there’s a coordinate wave to “make room” between two lanes for EMS to go by squishing to both edges. It feels good to be a part of a movement.
WATCH MY MIRROR< YOU! : ) but yeah, it works even somethines on city roads that have more lanes than were originally intended.
Which is the #1 lane here, at the center or at the curb?
True, though this wasn’t one of them. An intelligent driver had acres to maneuver in.
The #1 lane is always the leftmost lane in the direction of travel. The paved over cow paths are usually 15-20’ wide with no shoulder or sidewalk, so a bank up on one side and a slope to the ditch on the other. I can usually get 2 wheels off onto the verge, but it could get spicy, particularly in the Bimmer.
:thumbsup:
Keep moving if you can’t pull over
I’ve gone up on sidewalks to make room and I don’t drive cars with high ground clearance.
There may have been a more elegant way, but I was in a situation a few months back where I felt I had nowhere to go but needed to get out of the way of EMS. I was in my 4Runner, so I just drove up onto the sidewalk and out of the road.
If you can’t pull over you are allowed to keep going until you can. If you are stopped a red light you are allowed to go through (the green light people have to stop first)
The idea is to keep the emergency vehicle moving. Do not block the emergency vehicle
The same day something like that is implemented, hackers will figure it out.
“so a signal can be sent to all AVs on the road identifying what streets are on police or other sort of lockdown, and then those vehicles should simply not be able to go to such areas.”
This is actually a very risky approach. At any point if you have an area that has a critical mass of AVs, this could/would be leveraged to disrupt the environment.
Police are terrible with data security. Any backdoor built for such a purpose and shared with authorities may as well be co-published on Reddit.
then we shouldn’t have AV’s period.
Why? They are safer than human drivers
Particularly when they prevent ambulances from getting to shooting scenes.
How many ambulances are held up by human drivers every day?
You tell me.
Considering the number of times I’ve personally seen it – a lot.
However if we look at the data that we actually have
Waymo:
0.02 Serious Injury
0.35 Airbag Deployment
0.80 Any Injury
Humans:
0.23 Serious Injury
1.65 Airbag Deployment
3.96 Any Injury
(Rate per million miles travelled)
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/12/02/opinion/self-driving-cars.html
Those are not statistics of “How many ambulances are held up by human drivers every day”, which you first challenged me for, and what I requested from you since you seem so knowledgeable in these things..
I can’t believe I have been put in the position where I’m defending humans (or maybe I’m just criticizing the offspring of ignorant tech bro hubris and programmer incompetence), but those numbers are largely meaningless. Waymo taxis are deployed in select cities where average speeds are lower, so less likely to trigger an airbag or cause injury and they spend time traveling without passengers at all. These cities where they’re deployed are also not subject to the kind of weather events that lead to many human crashes.
That data is comparing Waymo crashes to humans crashes in the cities that Waymo operates.
That’s better, but they still run empty.
Please explain what “they still run empty” means.
We all appreciate your arguments, but you’re just feeding a troll here
I’m not sure if he’s a troll, has a financial interest in Waymo, is generally too enamored with technology to see its failings, or is trying to establish himself as a friend of the robots for when they take over and scour social media to create lists of who to destroy, but I’ll still argue against the dazzle of numbers of dubious meaning.
No financial interest in Waymo besides holding S&P 500 funds.
I just like the tech and have seen with my own eyes that it works.
I’m also not one to let perfect get in the way of better.
You must live in a wondrous fantasy world where enshittification isn’t happening. Besides adding fake money to investment portfolios, the majority of which goes to a very few undeserving parasites, tech hasn’t added anything of much value without massive costs to the rest of us in decades, but it is increasing societal stratification and division, hastening the end of democracy, and possibly humanity. While I would be OK with the latter, I don’t think the robots will be any better for the other fauna than humans.
Have you ridden in a Waymo? I have and it is hands down a better experience than Uber or Lyft.
That isn’t “enshittification”.
They are coming to Baltimore, and as I sit here, we’re having a freezing rain, and I’m sure a few car crashes
It’s one thing to wander in as a shill. It’s another entirely to make claims this site repeatedly and accurately disproves.
Last I looked Waymo’s accident rate was way lower than a human.
The emergency vehicle lights flash and video camera images flash and LED lights flash. I wonder if these flash rates sync and the Waymo simply can not “see” the ambo?
Waymos are coming to Baltimore. I wonder how they will deal with our idiocies
Cyber attacks are one of Iran’s favored methods to harass western countries. Maybe they hacked Waymo.
Never associate to malice what can be attributed to incompetence.
Any sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice.
Police car AND ambulance were equipped with push-bumpers. Give that thing a shove already!
Honestly, I’d be fine with this. Highway Patrol in my state has the legal authority to clear the road using all means necessary during emergency events (usually big storms where somebody who slid into a median can block big chunks of the road, or where people with bald tires block a lane), and the bull bars on their cars are not simply for decoration. So the solution is simple:
1) We (public safety agency) will have an API that is publicly accessible and will give you coordinates of emergencies and a defined radius. Anything within that radius needs to exit it immediately or pull over and stop
2) If necessary, use remote control to pilot vehicles through stoppages
3) If that doesn’t work (IE, cell signals jammed), your vehicle will be pushed to the side of the road forcibly.
4) If your autonomous vehicles become a problem (IE, in the same way people who interfere with emergency responders can be cited), then the operator gets dinged with a substantial ticket.
From the video – the Waymo was slowly completing the u-turn until the cop got involved.
As to the kid that stepped out directly in front of a Waymo in a school zone – it is good for the kid that it was a Waymo and not a human driver. The Waymo was already driving below the speed limit and reacted way faster than any human could.
I think AVs have a lot of very useful potential, but “slowly completing the U-Turn” while blocking an ambulance is in no way a good thing. If we’re serious about using these, we need to design them behave in ways that make the most sense for us, period.
Sure the Waymo could have done better but it seems people expect perfection instead of just better than the average human.
The school zone is an excellent example. The Waymo did way better than a human but it made national news that a Waymo hit a kid in a school zone. Had a human been driving and hit the kid, killed the kid, it would have been local news for a day.
Sounds like these autonomous cars can cause Way-Mo problems for first responders.
Waymo execs need to be charged with involuntary manslaughter.
Also, those cops should’ve pushed the car aside. That’s what those bars are for 😀
Wait until they show in Arkansas. The ASP will love pitting them.
Those taxis should be required to have an emergency stop button within easy reach of the passengers. When they’re unoccupied, there should be a bumper sticker with a phone number or something so the police or other first responders can command it to stop and pull over.