Today we wrote about the Tesla Model S refresh, with Thomas calling the car “a dinosaur.” This led to a discussion among Autopian writers about platforms; how big of a deal is it that a platform is old? Personally, I don’t think it matters much at all, necessarily; here’s why.
Right out front of my house I’ve got a 2021 BMW i3S, an astonishing little city-car that I adore. This particular vehicle, by 2021, had been on the market for eight years, and many criticized it for being dated. But was it?
The platform itself was not even almost dated; in fact, to this day it’s fair to call the carbon fiber-bodied i3’s chassis “futuristic.” The interior? Its styling holds up to this day, and I believe that to be the case with the exterior as well.
But where the i3 is dated is in terms of interior tech/infotainment. It has Apple Carplay, a screen that isn’t the size of a billboard, and physical controls; what’s more, the car doesn’t have cooled seats or an overhead 360 degree camera or a panoramic sunroof. I personally don’t want these things, but many do, so I get why folks saw the i3 as dated. What’s more, even though battery/drivetrain/chassis tech was updated between 2014 and 2021 model-years, the i3’s EV tech wasn’t really state-of-the-art by that last model-year. By 2021, the i3 was a $55,000 EV with half the range of a Tesla.
Image: Author
My point is that I don’t really care about platform age as long as that platform gets updated. In the case of the i3, its platform was awesome, and I’d have loved to see it continue on for 20+ years; it was what was bolted to that platform that was shriveling a bit on the vine.
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Then there are cars like the Dodge Journey, which stuck around forever, offering weak performance/efficiency, but at a highly competitive price. In that case, I’m totally fine with old bones.
Photo credit: Dodge
Here are a few thoughts about platform age by Thomas:
I reckon that a platform is too old to buy new when age doesn’t necessarily enhance the ownership experience and the driving experience is close to what you can get elsewhere in a newer, better-driving package. The R35 GT-R lost some of its luster at the end of its run, partly due to a mid-cycle suspension update that increased its tendency to corner entry understeer and partly because a super-fast turbocharged automatic car now describes almost every ICE performance car. On the other hand, a final-year Challenger SRT Hellcat with the six-speed manual would’ve been worth it because that’s a rare experience you couldn’t really get elsewhere brand new without modifying another platform.
What does the data tell us? Well, according to Bank of America, “replacement rate” — defined as the “estimated percentage of an OEM’s sales volume to be replaced with all-new or next-generation models” — actually does matter, with the bank writing in its “Car Wars” analysis:
We believe replacement rate drives showroom age, which drives market share, which in turn drives profits, and ultimately stock prices…
[…]
Although other factors such as mix, price, execution, distribution, brand power, and unforeseen disruptions impact market share, we think this data supports our thesis that successful new products drive higher market share and profits.
Bank of America’s Car Wars report goes on to say that new-model launch activity is stagnating, writing:
As shown in Exhibit 3, we expect OEMs to launch 159 new models during our forecast period (MY2026-29), or an average of just 40 per year. This rate is just below the average number of models launched per year between model years 2006 and 2025. This level of new model introductions is concerning as fewer new models may not stimulate consumer interest, which may pressure total volume.
The lower launch count is largely a result of the delay in new EV programs as consumers remain disinterested, the regulatory push for EVs is relaxed, consumer EV incentives are likely to be eliminated, and potential tariffs are roiling production/supply chain management decisions. This appears to be motivating automakers to focus on core ICE (& Hybrid) products, which should generate solid profit/cash flow. In addition, EVs are not being completely ignored, but development appears to be slowing to more closely mimic consumer demand, which is not much.
Image: Bank of America
So it seems that people usually do care about how old a car is, but at the same, I bet the average person has no clue about the bones underneath their vehicle’s sheetmetal. I personally couldn’t care less as long as the vehicle remains competitive/useful, like a 2001 Jeep Cherokee that, when new, had been on the market for 17 years but still offers great styling and off-road performance at a good price.
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Though I suppose now that I’m a dad, the biggest factor in platform age is: Will it excel in all modern crash tests? Anyway, I welcome your thoughts on this.
I love old platforms, I was able to go to the junkyard and pull some manual seats from a car 10 model years older and they bolt right in.
Especially important because the model year I got only came with power seats and I didn’t want that.
In my opinion overall car platforms peaked somewhere in the early 2000’s. Good efficiency, naturally asperated, OBD2, but not too many electronic gremlins that pop up. I would hate to try to keep a modern ICE car running in 2045.
AceRimmer
10 hours ago
If it’s a good platform then it’s good, regardless age. And cars were basically perfected 20 years ago so it’s rare when something new is significantly better.
Eric Moody
1 day ago
I like cars that go a long time without substantial changes. Parts will be easy to find and cheaper.
Urban Runabout
1 day ago
I believe GM, Ford and Chrysler proved decades ago that the platform wasn’t an issue – It was the sheetmetal and the amenities.
Nobody turned up their noses in front of the Ford showrooms in 1977 because the new Thunderbird was on a 6 year old platform – or the Chrysler showrooms in 1975 because the Cordoba was on a platform dating from 1962.
1978fiatspyderfan
1 day ago
I really think The Autopian is moving away from its roots. Why?
1. There is not enough DT and JT content. I get they are now owners and bosses but their content is what made the Autopian a success
2. The site is providing good content but they are slowly converting to the same content that every other automotive sight is posting and I don’t believe that will succeed it is the different content they have that is what works.
3. Posting manufacturers statistics is what every other site does you aren’t going to beat them by being them.
4. You were great content providers under Jalopnik and I and others urged you to move out on your own. Now you are kicking ass and taking names. The last thing you need to do is start duplicating the sites you are already better than. I assume someone approached you who was considered an expert who now is suggesting becoming like the establishment sites instead of remaining the tremendous site you are. Just remember they were giving the sites you are kicking their ass advice that failed to prevent you from kicking their ass.
I suggest a Robert DeNiro movie called the Intern. It is a good look at your situation. Remember you can learn a lot from the right movie
Jason H.
1 day ago
I’m guessing The Autopian isn’t the place to market test what the average new car buyer is looking for in a vehicle. A key figure: 2/3 rds of new car buyers keep their car for 5 year or less.
There is a reason for the industry standard of refreshing a car every 3-4 years and doing a redesign every 6-8 years. It fits into the average lease / loan cycle. The typical new car buyer doesn’t want to spend $$$$ to buy the same car. They want something new and better for the money and they want it to visibly look different on the outside so that people know they got a new car.
As the market data in this article says: “successful new products drive higher market share and profits.”
“They want something new and better for the money and they want it to visibly look different on the outside so that people know they got a new car.”
This is why I think Tesla is going to be hurting soon. Tesla stans always point out how the company makes small changes to the interior or makes changes to the hardware and other stuff the customer doesn’t really see. The reality is their cars never change. There may be slight styling tweaks like we have seen on the S, 3, and Y, but each model has remained the same size/shape and generally looks the same. A lack of true redesign of the 3 is especially going to hurt. The 3 was bought by a lot of regular people. After 5 years or so, they’ll want a new car for whatever reason. When they go to the showroom and see the current 3 is basically the same as their 5-year-old one, are they going to buy another and drive basically the same car for 10 years in a row? No. They want something that looks different so their friends and co-workers know they got a new car. That sounds vain, but people are like that. (Personally, I’ve driven the same car for 18 years and don’t care that my friends and co-workers think that’s crazy.)
Honestly, I question if Tesla is even capable of fully redesigning a car. They’ve never done it. Stuff like the Taurus, Accord, and Civic would change their look and shape. Besides redesigning headlights and taillights, Tesla has proven incapable of making big changes.
Can they redesign a car – sure. They have designed 5 cars so far. Can they build a new generation of cars that have a shared common platform? I really doubt it.
Which is what they need to do if they are going to continue to compete in the future. In a normal company all 5 of their current vehicles would be on a shared flexible platform. Take a company like Honda. The Pilot, Passport, Ridgeline, Odyssey and Acura MDX on a shared platform. The Civic, CRV, HRV, Integra, ADX and RDX share another platform.
Hondaimpbmw 12
1 day ago
The last iteration of the GM B body was done on a chassis that was old enough to vote when the “parade float” design came out. While it was a perimeter frame, the front from the A pillar and the rear after the C pillar were box sections and between was a flimsy stamped c section that barely kept the two ends from wandering off separately before the body was plonked on top.
The rear suspension was 4 angled links that allowed the rear to sashay around if you took a corner a bit hard. The dash had enough acreage of plastic under the windshield to set up a picnic. The seats were more of a trough that centered your butt about an inch off the steering wheel centerline. The back seat legroom was only slightly greater than a MK7 Golf. With that flimsy piece of tin between the front and rear frame sections, it might have cost an extra $2 to lengthen the wheelbase enough to even fit the wheel openings, never mind give if it another 3-4” to make the back seat habitable. Probably the most egregious failing was that damned GM “do everything stick” on the left side of the steering column.
Jatkat
1 day ago
Some of the all time reliability/cult following legends were built on absolutely ancient platforms. Panther, Express, SJ, Taco, XJ, Fox, Econoline, etc. Most get better with slow incremental refinements. I do wish they would get cheaper over time. I’d happily buy anything on my list as a new car if the price was right!
Agreed. I’d personally buy an new BMW e36 tomorrow if I could.
Shooting Brake
2 days ago
I mean yeah it matters in a business sense cause it does help drive sales as people go for the shiny new thing, but I have hated lazy auto journalists trashing cars in reviews just for “being old” when that really shouldn’t matter by itself, the old has to have some sort of disadvantage or it’s not worth mentioning. And today we suddenly find ourselves with most new cars being “over connected” and the old platforms still floating around suddenly feel extra desirable (but as usual with these things, only to a small subset of actual car enthusiasts, the general public still just wants shiny new things).
Ignatius J. Reilly
2 days ago
Neither old nor new is inherently better. New tends to increase performance or add amenities. Older is great if it has the advantage of a mature design where the bugs are worked out, so it is reliable, and the tooling is paid for, so it is cheap.
I am here for this. I generally don’t buy a vehicle from the first year or two of a redesign or launch as I like the car to be flushed out a bit and work the kinks out.
Hugh Crawford
2 days ago
I can’t think of a reason for preferring a new platform for the sake of newness.
New safety or performance features, sure. Otherwise what I don’t want is a problematic or short lived platform.
By the time a car is 10-20 years old, it doesn’t really matter, it’s just old.
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I love old platforms, I was able to go to the junkyard and pull some manual seats from a car 10 model years older and they bolt right in.
Especially important because the model year I got only came with power seats and I didn’t want that.
In my opinion overall car platforms peaked somewhere in the early 2000’s. Good efficiency, naturally asperated, OBD2, but not too many electronic gremlins that pop up. I would hate to try to keep a modern ICE car running in 2045.
If it’s a good platform then it’s good, regardless age. And cars were basically perfected 20 years ago so it’s rare when something new is significantly better.
I like cars that go a long time without substantial changes. Parts will be easy to find and cheaper.
I believe GM, Ford and Chrysler proved decades ago that the platform wasn’t an issue – It was the sheetmetal and the amenities.
Nobody turned up their noses in front of the Ford showrooms in 1977 because the new Thunderbird was on a 6 year old platform – or the Chrysler showrooms in 1975 because the Cordoba was on a platform dating from 1962.
I really think The Autopian is moving away from its roots. Why?
1. There is not enough DT and JT content. I get they are now owners and bosses but their content is what made the Autopian a success
2. The site is providing good content but they are slowly converting to the same content that every other automotive sight is posting and I don’t believe that will succeed it is the different content they have that is what works.
3. Posting manufacturers statistics is what every other site does you aren’t going to beat them by being them.
4. You were great content providers under Jalopnik and I and others urged you to move out on your own. Now you are kicking ass and taking names. The last thing you need to do is start duplicating the sites you are already better than. I assume someone approached you who was considered an expert who now is suggesting becoming like the establishment sites instead of remaining the tremendous site you are. Just remember they were giving the sites you are kicking their ass advice that failed to prevent you from kicking their ass.
I suggest a Robert DeNiro movie called the Intern. It is a good look at your situation. Remember you can learn a lot from the right movie
I’m guessing The Autopian isn’t the place to market test what the average new car buyer is looking for in a vehicle. A key figure: 2/3 rds of new car buyers keep their car for 5 year or less.
There is a reason for the industry standard of refreshing a car every 3-4 years and doing a redesign every 6-8 years. It fits into the average lease / loan cycle. The typical new car buyer doesn’t want to spend $$$$ to buy the same car. They want something new and better for the money and they want it to visibly look different on the outside so that people know they got a new car.
As the market data in this article says: “successful new products drive higher market share and profits.”
“They want something new and better for the money and they want it to visibly look different on the outside so that people know they got a new car.”
This is why I think Tesla is going to be hurting soon. Tesla stans always point out how the company makes small changes to the interior or makes changes to the hardware and other stuff the customer doesn’t really see. The reality is their cars never change. There may be slight styling tweaks like we have seen on the S, 3, and Y, but each model has remained the same size/shape and generally looks the same. A lack of true redesign of the 3 is especially going to hurt. The 3 was bought by a lot of regular people. After 5 years or so, they’ll want a new car for whatever reason. When they go to the showroom and see the current 3 is basically the same as their 5-year-old one, are they going to buy another and drive basically the same car for 10 years in a row? No. They want something that looks different so their friends and co-workers know they got a new car. That sounds vain, but people are like that. (Personally, I’ve driven the same car for 18 years and don’t care that my friends and co-workers think that’s crazy.)
Honestly, I question if Tesla is even capable of fully redesigning a car. They’ve never done it. Stuff like the Taurus, Accord, and Civic would change their look and shape. Besides redesigning headlights and taillights, Tesla has proven incapable of making big changes.
Can they redesign a car – sure. They have designed 5 cars so far. Can they build a new generation of cars that have a shared common platform? I really doubt it.
Which is what they need to do if they are going to continue to compete in the future. In a normal company all 5 of their current vehicles would be on a shared flexible platform. Take a company like Honda. The Pilot, Passport, Ridgeline, Odyssey and Acura MDX on a shared platform. The Civic, CRV, HRV, Integra, ADX and RDX share another platform.
The last iteration of the GM B body was done on a chassis that was old enough to vote when the “parade float” design came out. While it was a perimeter frame, the front from the A pillar and the rear after the C pillar were box sections and between was a flimsy stamped c section that barely kept the two ends from wandering off separately before the body was plonked on top.
The rear suspension was 4 angled links that allowed the rear to sashay around if you took a corner a bit hard. The dash had enough acreage of plastic under the windshield to set up a picnic. The seats were more of a trough that centered your butt about an inch off the steering wheel centerline. The back seat legroom was only slightly greater than a MK7 Golf. With that flimsy piece of tin between the front and rear frame sections, it might have cost an extra $2 to lengthen the wheelbase enough to even fit the wheel openings, never mind give if it another 3-4” to make the back seat habitable. Probably the most egregious failing was that damned GM “do everything stick” on the left side of the steering column.
Some of the all time reliability/cult following legends were built on absolutely ancient platforms. Panther, Express, SJ, Taco, XJ, Fox, Econoline, etc. Most get better with slow incremental refinements. I do wish they would get cheaper over time. I’d happily buy anything on my list as a new car if the price was right!
Agreed. I’d personally buy an new BMW e36 tomorrow if I could.
I mean yeah it matters in a business sense cause it does help drive sales as people go for the shiny new thing, but I have hated lazy auto journalists trashing cars in reviews just for “being old” when that really shouldn’t matter by itself, the old has to have some sort of disadvantage or it’s not worth mentioning. And today we suddenly find ourselves with most new cars being “over connected” and the old platforms still floating around suddenly feel extra desirable (but as usual with these things, only to a small subset of actual car enthusiasts, the general public still just wants shiny new things).
Neither old nor new is inherently better. New tends to increase performance or add amenities. Older is great if it has the advantage of a mature design where the bugs are worked out, so it is reliable, and the tooling is paid for, so it is cheap.
I am here for this. I generally don’t buy a vehicle from the first year or two of a redesign or launch as I like the car to be flushed out a bit and work the kinks out.
I can’t think of a reason for preferring a new platform for the sake of newness.
New safety or performance features, sure. Otherwise what I don’t want is a problematic or short lived platform.
By the time a car is 10-20 years old, it doesn’t really matter, it’s just old.