We’ve had some pretty bad weather here recently, with snow and freezing rain and everything that comes with that. Specifically in this case, the “everything that comes with that” means frozen windshields. As you may already know, there are two major schools of thought when it comes to ice-covered windshields that result from a car being left outside overnight in cold, inclement weather: raise the wipers or leave them down.
Wipers up or wipers down. It’s the sort of question that has torn families apart for centuries. There are pretty valid reasons for either choice, I think, but I think fundamentally it comes down to personal preference. And that brings us to the ethical conundrum I was recently informed of by a friend of mine. This person lives in a place with a good-sized communal parking lot where the tenants of the complex park. On one of the recent nights where we got snow and ice, they noticed a neighbor walking from car to car, raising people’s wipers off their windshields.
My friend is not someone who subscribes to the wipers up school of thought; they’re a wipers down person. And while nobody doubts that the motives of this wiper-raiser were anything other than altruistic, the act of raising those wipers was nonetheless not a welcome act to my friend, nor would it be to many people. Some people may appreciate it, but overall, I have to ask: automotively, is this ethical?
I don’t think the actual details of wipers up versus wipers down really matter here; the question is whether or not doing something one firmly believes to be beneficial to a car you don’t own is okay or not. The wipers up/down example is a good one because it’s not universally agreed upon; even if the unbidden wiper-lifter believed he was saving people the hassle of freeing their frozen-to-the windshield wipers and protecting them and their wiper motors from damage, others believe that he could be exposing the wiper arms to more damage.
For example, I have several old cars with fragile or finicky wiper setups, and someone unfamiliar with them lifting them up could cause damage. Lifting people’s wipers, I think, is a fundamentally presumptuous act, one that blindly assumes that your own methods for dealing with an icy windshield are the best. There’s an arrogance to the act at worst, and an ignorance at best.
In this case, I think it’s wrong to mess with someone else’s car, even if your intentions are good.
That said, personally, I’m not someone who is particularly fussy about my car being touched or anything like that. If someone thinks my car has an interesting detail and runs a finger along it, I don’t mind at all, but I know people who do, so, generally, I try and treat people’s cars with the assumption that their owners are fussier than I am. But I do think if there’s a situation where you can provide a clear and unquestionable benefit to someone’s car by physically interacting with it, you can and maybe should.
The most invasive example I can think of may be if you’re walking by, say, an older car with open wind-up windows, and a heavy rain starts. If that were my car, I would be thankful if someone opened my door and rolled up my windows. But what about an open convertible in the rain? That’s a worse situation, but I do not think I’d be comfortable putting up someone’s manual convertible top, simply because that’s an operation that may be significantly more complex than rolling up a window, and has more possibility for me to break something. But if I had a tarp, would I throw it over the open car? Probably?
It’s a pretty murky area. Now, if a car’s parking brake popped off and a car started to roll away, I think most of us would at least see if a door was open to try and get the car stopped, right? That’s a much more dire situation than a wet interior, and comes with some public safety risks.
So where’s the line, there? Is it ever okay to mess with a car that’s not yours if your intentions are good? I’d love to know what we, as a community, are thinking. If you saw an Autopian sticker or badge on the car, would that change things? Let’s think this through and show our work here; this is more of a subtle problem than it seems. Except maybe for the wipers guy; I think that dude should just leave his neighbor’s cars be unless asked.
Here, you can pick a stance in this poll before we get into it in more detail in the comments:
This isn’t complicated:
Don’t touch someone else’s car.
How do you know their wiper motor wasn’t broken somehow, and you just made it worse? Or what happens if you are wearing a belt with a metal buckle and as you lean over to lift their wipers, you now scratched their fender? Just don’t fuck with people’s shit. If its your neighbor and you’re friendly with them and you know they’ll appreciate it, that’s a different story, but after you do it, send them a message letting them know you did it.
I was at a boat ramp last fall (always a source of entertainment) and watched a guy step off his fancy fishing boat onto the dock, and walk off without looking back. As his boat drifted away from the dock in the wind and waves I thought, “oh crap, he didn’t tie up his boat!” Then I saw it: the electric trolling motor on the bow was auto-steering the boat as it moved away from the dock toward the boat ramp. What kind of voodoo technology is this? I’d never seen it before, so I stuck around to watch.
As the boat owner was walking up the boat ramp to get his truck, a couple of clean-cut teenage boys in their own boat showed up and saw this empty boat drifting in the strong wind toward the boulders on the shoreline, and they went straight into hero mode, jumping onto the runaway boat, firing up the main engine, and gassing it back toward the dock, with the trolling motor still in the water, switching around furiously trying to steer against the main motor, and its arm and bracket visibly bending back toward the hull. Doh!
The next thing I see is the boat owner running back down the ramp screaming at these two poor samaritans who were trying to dock his boat for him in the waves, bumping it hard on the dock in the process. As the boat owner was lighting these kids up, I walked away about the time another guy showed up to try to defend them and it looked like it was about to go to fisticuffs (if rule #1 is don’t touch stuff that’s not yours, rule #2 is don’t get yourself involved in stuff you’re not involved in).
So I didn’t get to see if they actually damaged the guy’s boat, or if there was a fight and someone got a broken nose or what. But it was a really great reminder that no good deed goes unpunished, and also that you can never really know what’s going on with someone’s car/boat/whatever, so you really should just leave it alone. There may be a perfectly good reason those wipers aren’t up, or the top is down in the rain, or the lights are on. If someone’s boat ends up on the rocks, well, that’s on them and that’s what their insurance is for. If you end up in jail, or dead, or on the hook for damaging someone else’s property, well, that’s pretty much on you for breaking rule number one.
So what voodoo was that? Because that wild.
Dunno – I didn’t stick around but I looked it up afterward and I guess Minn Kota and a few others have some GPS-enabled motors like this. I didn’t get to see if that thing was going to steer itself onto this guy’s trailer (with a front-mounted motor…? hmm…) or if it was just designed to hold position away from the dock and return to the dock so the guy could trailer it himself. Voodoo either way.
Yeah, some higher end models have GPS features now, and all but the most basic have remote controls (mostly so you don’t have to sit only at the bow to physically operate the motor directly).
So yeah I guess you could drive the boat unmanned via the remote, but I thought the same thing….the motors are front mounted, so you couldn’t actually get it on the trailer with one. You could get it close, but then have to go probably chest deep in water to flip the motor up and hook up the strap to pull the boat the rest of the way onto the trailer….seems more of a hassle than just backing the trailer up, parking, then going to get the boat and driving it on.
Whoever figures out how to get a boat to float itself onto a trailer is gonna save a lot of marriages.
yeah but think of all the video content we’ll miss out on
I have lived in the frozen north of Wisconsin for over 30 years and the only place I see people doing this weird wiper thing is down south where y’all seem to have no idea how to handle snow.
Leave your wipers where they are. Don’t touch my wipers, either. My car is designed to deal with this, as is your car. If there’s too much ice to be able to free your wipers, that’s mother nature and the designer of your car telling you there’s too much ice to drive.
Seriously, I live in Michigan and no one around me has ever put their wipers up. I lived in the western UP which gets HELLA snow and I don’t remember ever seeing wipers up. What are people doing out there??
I watched a car roll by my house last week with the wipers stuck in the up position. The snow and then freezing layer of sleet prevented the wipers from being put down. LOLS!
Nope. Not kosher. And welcome to a typical set of RTP winter weather forecasts. It’s complicated. Always.
In the US, one must always remember to apply the “Will I potentially get shot at by someone for my actions?” filter, whether those actions be inherently good or bad.
Messing with someone’s car, especially if it involves entering said car, falls into the realm of potential shooting. Remember, in most states even the sidewalk is a man’s castle. In several of the remaining, the car itself is.
The WSJ has been running a series on state stand-your-ground laws, and a through line to these stories is that the way these laws are written, you can not be prosecuted for killing someone as long as you state afterward that “I was afraid for my life.” Those 6 words provide automatic immunity, regardless of whether you shot someone in your home, your car, in a parking lot, or on the street. Doesn’t matter if you started the fight, if you invited the other guy into your car, or whatever.
As long as the other guy isn’t there to tell his side of the story, prosecutors are required by law to give you the benefit of the doubt for your self defense. And this fact – this phrase – has become pretty widely known and discussed among 2A supporters. As such, its use has increased dramatically in recent years and is becoming quite common.
Ponder this as you stand there next to a stranger’s car deciding whether or not you should open the door to turn off their headlights for them.
That’s mostly untrue.. Someone always has the benefit of the doubt in court, or at least are supposed to. There was recently a case that relates somewhat to Torch’s question. Some Boomer Busy Body was giving a ration of poop to someone parked in a handicapped spot (IIRC). The driver was inside a convenience store, his female passenger in the car. BBB berated the woman for some time, until Ginormous Handicap Parker came out of the store and was understandable all WTF? GHP squares off against BBB who backs up, and trips. GHP figures he’s made his point and backs off, BBB shoots him. BBB is all “I was in fear for my life” the court said “lol no you’re going to jail”. Details matter, especially in court, it was all on the store’s camera. There have been cases as well where protection of property was determined to not be defensible under castle doctrine or stand your ground. It also very much matters if you started the fight, there have been cases where self defense has been thrown out for that exact reason.
It’s easy to be cynical but cameras are increasing not decreasing, so maybe enforced morality prevails when real morality doesn’t.
I would never touch a stranger’s car not for fear of getting shot, but simply because it’s none of my business. Also good Samaritan laws don’t apply if for some random reason harm was caused by my action.
You’re right and I should clarify that I’m talking about when there is insufficient video or unbiased witnesses. Without video proof otherwise, the shooter gets to tell the whole story, including who started the fight and why.
I got interested in the topic when an acquaintance of mine was shot and killed in a road rage incident last year. tldr two local guys got into it on the highway (Jeep Gladiator Gun Guy and Volkswagen Vegan) after which GGG follows VV home. Instead of leading the guy to his house, VV pulls over and gets out of his car to confront GGG. In the dark on a grainy security cam video VV apparently approaches the Gladiator yelling at the guy like a macho asshole, and GGG shoots him right through the passenger window, then peels out of there and goes home like the innocent man he clearly is and BURIES THE GUN in his yard.
When GGG is finally tracked down weeks later he claims self defense and is charged only for the minor crime of hiding the gun. The prosecutor’s office refused to file any other charges because under state law, if a defendant claims self-defense, the burden is on the state to disprove it. This law is so strong that the state is required to have a Justification Hearing with a judge where a prosecutor must PROVE to a judge that self-defense does not apply before a case can even be brought to court.
In other words, unless there are credible witnesses and/or indisputable video, the law is specifically designed so that there is no day in court, no jury, nothing.
That’s horrible and as a gun nut I find it infuriating on 8 different levels.
In the same way no one plays my drums unless I let them, no one should touch my car without my permission. I just moved back to the Raleigh/Durham area in December of last year. I put my wipers up for the supposed ice storm a couple weeks ago, but didn’t put them up for the equally nothingburger-esque ‘snow storm’ last weekend.
Short version: don’t touch my shit, and I won’t touch yours.
The obvious and unavoidable good has to outweigh the arrogance of messing with anothers property uninvited and potential for actual damage. So public safety, yes. wiper blades, never. Windows open, seek out the owner or stand in the way of the rain.
It should be allowed, but so too should systems based on farm electric fences which will deliver a shock to people who touch cars owned by people who do not want their cars touched.
With an extra option to put some juice into the wheels to discourage male dogs.
One of the first things I learned in law school. Do not create a duty. This creates a duty of care. If you mess up Jasons Pao wipers, its on the good samaritan to pay for the fix. Let people reap the ground they sow.
No, do not touch my mf car. My wipers on the GTI are already tucked below the cowl/hood so they just can’t lift straight up without scratching the hell out of the edge of the hood and I’m sure some doofus going around messing with people wipers does not know this.
On another note, my neighbor put his wipers up and put socks on each wiper. It was the automotive equivalent of RHCP walking across Abbey Road with socks on their junk.
On another another note, there is STILL people with the wipers up on their cars on my street and the snow was 2 weeks ago.
Don’t touch the
boatscars.Except in cases of life-threatening emergency, don’t mess with people’s stuff. Even with the baby/pet in a parked car deal, with modern cars being able to run the HVAC while parked the good samaritan needs to do a bit of extra thought before breaking windows.
Specific to the wipers, I’ve lived in the frozen tundra of the upper Midwest most of my life and I’ve never done the wiper thing. Either my cars can’t because the arms hit the hood or simply because I would need the defroster and an ice scraper anyway so there’s no point.
I used to raise people’s wipers before a major snowstorm in the past, but I stopped doing that after I learned about how it’s possible for severe wind to snap the wiper back down hard enough to crack glass.
That said, I used to clear the ice and snow off of the elderly neighbor’s Buick that was parked next to mine all the time, and I would continue to do so now if I hadn’t moved away. I did not and would not clear the snow off of the Nissan Maxima that was parked on the other side of me, however. It was obvious that that guy loved his car and babied it.
This is all to say, I agree with the “It’s complicated” crowd.
I think the average driver today wouldn’t know how to put the wipers back down.
I lift the drivers side wiper on my truck to remind me that I plugged in the block heater so I don’t drive off with the extension cord still plugged in.
that’s a pretty genius reminder.
I STILL would probably drive off, like going to the store to get milk – getting back home without said milk.
Dammit, why didn’t I think of this when I still had a block heater? I drove off a few times and left it plugged in, to the point where I had to make sure it was plugged in to an outlet where it would just pull the cord out and not rip something off the wall.
This is some kindergarten level stuff: DON’T TOUCH OTHER PEOPLE’S STUFF.
Or the playground version: YOU SEE WITH YOUR EYES, NOT WITH YOUR HANDS.
This. I trained my kid from day one: If it’s not yours, don’t touch it.
Of course there’s nuance to that as an adult, but not much. If you continue to apply that maxim in abeyance of said nuance, then everyone will be alright.
I have a heated strip at the bottom of the windshield where the wipers rest. I would be mad if someone lift them when I can remote start and the wipers will be free to wipe the snow.
My own cars, yes. Other peoples’ cars, no touchy.
I tried the wipers up thing, and my wipers remained frozen in an arc that wouldn’t touch the window, nor did they warm from the defroster, because they weren’t touching the window.
Nope.
Not unless I was on friendly terms with the owner. Especially if it was rolling. Are you crazy???
Effectively no, because circumstances where it is ok are so rare. If I see a car starting to burn in a parking lot I would call 911 and blast it with a fire extinguisher if one is available. How many times have I done this? Zero.
I would not mess with a stranger’s car.
I usually don’t lift mine only because I’m dumb and never think about it. But last week we got 14″ of snow & I knew ice was a possibility, so I lifted on both cars. I’m tired of frozen wiper blades and have ripped off the blade while being careful more than once.
This was tough. But I guess if I go through all my interactions, I’ve never touched someone else’s car. I just don’t do that. So I suppose I would only intervene with someone’s car in a situation where there were very, very, very clear safety issues.
So you might be a pro at putting wipers up, but what if the owners is rather clumsy?
The owners leave the wipers down because they know that they will break the window when putting them down. I don’t think they will be thrilled with the wipers up then.
Or the “oeps they slipped from my fingers and now your car window is shattered” insurance disaster.
Don’t touch other people’s stuff
Mk6 Golf. Doing this from their low (horizontal) position would: break the arms of the wipers and scratch the back of the hood. Wipers need to be in service (vertical) position in order to be lifted.
So, if I saw someone doing this to my car through the window I’d have to run down, apply violence and hold the person down, wait for the police, get a report and have the stupid samaritan cover the repairs.
You don’t mess with another man’s vehicle, that’s against the rules…
When I return to my car I expect to find it exactly as I left it.
You need at the very least tacit consent to touch anyones car, If they are not there to give it, Don’t touch.