Today, we’re throwing any sense of decorum right out the window. Noise? Vibration? Harshness? Yep, we’ve got all three, in the form of two cosmetically-challenged V8 pony cars with five-speed manuals. They both run and drive fine, but boy, are they ugly. Get ready to do some burnouts.
Yesterday I showed you two nice little trucks, and as I expected, both had plenty of fans. Most of you favored the Ford, primarily because it was fuel-injected, it sounds like. That’s a valid reason, but I don’t think there’s any real reason to fear the Nissan just because it’s carbureted. Carbs worked just fine for decades before EFI came along.
It was a tough call for me too, but my thinking goes like this: if I can’t have a full eight-foot bed anyway, I’d rather have some extra room in the cab. Single-cab compact trucks are awfully cramped inside. I’ll take the Nissan, and sell off the topper to recoup some cost.
There are some things I think we’re meant to outgrow. That may sound funny coming from a guy with a garage full of toy cars, but look, this isn’t about me, all right? I’m thinking of things like Cap’n Crunch, or silly fashion trends. At some point, you just stop wanting them, and that’s a good thing. It shows maturity.
But what about the thing you always wanted, but never got? Somehow, out of the thirty-five or so cars I’ve owned in my life, not one of them has had a V8 paired with a manual transmission. Nor have I had, despite being a fan of both of them, either a Camaro or a Mustang, of any description. I’m old enough now to realize I’m probably not missing a whole lot; such cars are usually coarse, cheaply-made, and not very appealing to drive every day, at least not in your fifties with a bad hip on one side and a bad knee on the other. Still, I look at cars like these, and I can’t help thinking I should own one someday, just to see.
1988 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z – $5,000
Engine/drivetrain: 5.0-liter overhead valve V8, five-speed manual, RWD
Location: Bartlett, IL
Odometer reading: 70,000 miles
Operational status: “Can definitely be used as a daily”
Seeing this car with an old-style Illinois license plate on it makes me think of high school. Our Big Man On Campus, a meathead straight out of a John Hughes comedy, whose name I can’t even recall, drove an electric blue IROC that we were all envious of – though I secretly made fun of him because it was an automatic. I can’t imagine he has weathered the years well; guys like that usually don’t, and if the car is still around, it probably looks a lot like this one.
Unlike the meathead’s, this IROC is optioned properly, with a tuned-port fuel-injected 305 V8, a five-speed manual transmission, and a 3.45:1 Positraction rear axle. It would probably get beaten by a Prius in a drag race today, but in 1988, it was the hot setup. It’s only on its second owner, and has just 70,000 miles to its name. The seller has done a bunch of work to it to bring it back up to snuff mechanically, and it now runs and drives just fine. It is a little loud; it has a crack in the exhaust somewhere that needs fixing, but a little extra V8 noise isn’t the worst thing in the world.
It’s all original inside, and in very nice shape, actually. I clicked on this ad expecting to see the typical trashed interior that so many used third-gen Camaros suffer from, and instead, I saw this. The upholstery looks good, the carpet is a little dirty but not bad, and check out that period-correct car phone. The seller says the radio no longer works, but I’m not surprised. Those old Delco stereos had a finite life. An aftermarket system will have you blasting Def Leppard out of it again in no time.
There has to be a catch, right? Yep. There is, and it’s one that residents and former residents of the Great Lakes region know all too well: rust. It still looks structurally sound underneath, but the front fenders and door bottoms are pretty rough, though mostly just on the passenger’s side. The driver’s side still looks all right. This one is never going to be a collector’s item. But it’s also not about to snap in two tomorrow, so you could just ignore the rust and enjoy it.
1997 Ford Mustang GT – $2,800
Engine/drivetrain: 4.6-liter overhead cam V8, five-speed manual, RWD
Location: Lewisville, TX
Odometer reading: 118,000 miles
Operational status: Runs and drives well
The meathead’s rival, of course, drove a Mustang, a maroon 1987 GT model that I liked better than the blue IROC because it was a manual, which my “Chevy guy” friends thought was scandalous. The Camaro-Mustang rivalry was still in full swing in those days, and there weren’t many people as agnostic on the matter as I was. I’ve always liked them both, and which one was “better” in my opinion went back and forth over the years as the two cars evolved. Back in ’88, I would have preferred the IROC – but only with a manual. But in 1997, there was no question: the Mustang was king.
For its first couple of years, the SN95 Mustang carried over the old “five-point-oh” V8 from the Fox-body era. But in 1996, Ford replaced it with the 4.6 liter overhead cam “Modular” V8. It made 215 horsepower – less than the contemporary Camaro Z28 – but it came with a regular old Borg-Warner five-speed manual instead of the dumb “skip-shift” six-speed in the Camaro. This one may or may not be stock; at the very least, it has an aftermarket aluminum coolant expansion tank and a K&N air filter. The seller says it has no mechanical issues, but doesn’t go into any details.
This is what makes me suspect the engine in this car might not be stock: it has Corbeau racing seats. This is the only photo of the interior, so I can’t see what else might not be stock. The seller does say that the air conditioning works, which is something.
It looks a bit rough outside; the front bumper and fenders are in primer, and the rest of the paint isn’t in great shape either. The hood has been replaced, I think; it looks like it used to be white and was painted flat black. There’s a good chance this car was in a minor wreck up front – which, now that I think about it, might account for the aftermarket coolant tank. It might have been cheaper than a genuine Ford plastic one. A good, careful inspection is in order, I think, to look for other signs of damage.
It seems to me that if you want a car like this just to play with and see what it’s like, this is the way to go: look for a scruffy one that runs well, and you’ll spend a lot less on it than a nice shiny one. You can’t see the outside from the driver’s seat anyway. So here are your choices: a highly original but somewhat rusty Camaro, or a potentially modified and possibly wrecked Mustang. What’ll it be?
who the fuck would buy a Camaro without T-tops? That’s like the defining feature of them! Also, it’s a crackhead price too.
So I voted for the Mustang.
Lack of T-tops is the reason the interior isn’t trashed, and it might even still have some of the floor boards.
Both of these are disposable fun at best, but only the Mustang’s price reflects that. Also, there’s a chance you can work on the Mustang with a wrench instead of a chisel.
Mustang, but only because of price. Both of these are <$3k cars.
Definitely the Z! I ain’t afraid of no g̶h̶o̶s̶t̶ ̶ rust. V8 + manual + low miles= great fun. Plus it’s not a Fix Or Repair Daily
I Rock but not for $5K. Offer $2500 and a six pack of PBR. New rallycross champ.
The ad photo shows it parked at a Camaro’s natural habitat (a bar), so probably a decent negotiation strategy.
I had many 3rd gen Camaros and Firebirds (and a mullet) and none of them rusted like that one. GM did a pretty good job of rust proofing them. That one has had a hard life.
It takes a brave man to admit to a mullet! I grew up out West where salt and rust were not a thing. It was eye-opening (and potentially floor-opening) to see what happened in western NY and around Cleveland when I moved back there. Out west again, I’m loving all the Kei trucks and JDM vans I’m seeing around Tacoma.
Wanted to choose the IROC because it looks stock, but Rust Belt is gonna Rust Belt, so I’d shy away from it.
And then I looked at the Mustang and somebody tried to build themselves a drift car, smashed the front end and is now trying to dump it. Check that Mustang for signs of a removed bolt in cage.
I decide to not decide. There are cleaner versions of both of these cars out there.
Maybe buy this IROC just for the interior, motor and trans, and source an ’88 Camaro from the southwest and build one good car.
“Maybe buy this IROC just for the interior, motor and trans, and source an ’88 Camaro from the southwest and build one good car.”
That’s actually not a bad idea.
I’d take the IROC but only for 2 grand tops. 5000 is nuts for a rusty example.
I’ve always liked the IROC Cameros. They looked so damn cool to me in the 80s when I was a kid. If one came my way in decent shape, specced like the one in the ad, and for 3k ish I would consider it for some shits and giggles.
Honest question – why do you (and many others) spell it “Camero”? Is that the normal spelling outside of the US?
I unintentionally typed it wrong.
“Camero” has become a trope, making fun of the stereotypical (mullet-sporting, semiliterate, redneck idiot) Camaro-driving demographic by using a common Craigslist misspelling.
Typo. I have big ass hands and phone keyboards don’t work well with me. Most of my posts are riddled with them. I went to college, I swear!
I’m no Dave Tracy Rust Masochist, so Mustang
The IROC seems the honest craptastic american musclecar, but not at that price.
The Mustang’s front-end work says as many redflags as the race buckets & lack of interior photos (and that they owner couldn’t even clean off the rear seat for them).
While I love the IROC, and also owned several v8 4th gen F-bodies, I’m going with the Mustang based on price alone. Neither is in great shape nor is either of them really a true performance icon, but the formerly-wrecked SN95 is closer to the value it is actually worth than the rusty Camaro.
Is this what shitbox third-gen F-bodies go for now??
I wanted to go Camaro. We had a five-speed T/A and believe it or not those 305’s can be made to run pretty well. Remember these were only factory rated about 20 ponies less than the 350 of that era.
But I’m old enough to not want rusty cars anymore. And it’s not the rust you can see here that’s the problem. It’s the stuff under it once you take that fender off thinking it’s going to be an easy restoration. Ask me how I know. Anyway the price is insane, in my view.
But I really don’t want the Mustang either, with its racer-boy seats.
I’ll abstain, thanks.
$5000 for a rusty Camaro with a 305!!?!??! Aw hell no!!!
A work friend had an ’88 IROC and by the mid-nineties it was an absolute rattle-trap. I bet this SBSD one rattles with the engine off.
I’ll take the ‘Stang and if the repaired front end isn’t up to snuff, just paint it, clean it, and flip it. At least being a TX car, it shouldn’t be rusty.
Mark, as for V8 manuals, I’ve had 2 V8 Mustangs, a ’90 convertible GT and a ’94 Cobra with an aftermarket supercharger. They are 110% fun to drive. Go get yourself one.
In this Camaro’s defense, it’s a coupe. Imagine how bad it would be as a T-top. And I say this as someone with a T-top Firebird. Albeit much nicer than this thing.
My T-top Trans Am made me miss the relative rigidity of my hardtop Z28.
I used to autocross my ’89. When I first started I asked one of the veterans if they thought I should remove the panels for runs, or would they make the car stiffer while in place. His answer was, “If you don’t take them out, they’re going to pop out anyway.”
To this day my Dad swears I was bending that car around the cones.
Hard tops do tend to crack at the upper rear door opening if sub frame connectors are not used when autocrossing these things.
“To this day my Dad swears I was bending that car around the cones.”
He’s probably right, but good on you anyways!
Yeah, I would’ve popped them out, just not to flex and break them. But autocrossing either of one of these would be a laugh riot. The definition of “driving it like you stole it.” Or you owned it, but hated it.
Yeah I always ran without them in, even if it was raining, which I hated! (I had an umbrella that was just right-sized for when on the grid). This was back in the mid-90’s, but I drove that car to four consecutive class titles, and then two more with the ’88 T/A we also had. These things love that kind of work!
My friend’s IROC was also a hardtop. My boss bought a Gen 4 Camaro Z28 and even after a few years, it was pretty solid. Again, a hardtop. But I just thought it was so sad that the ’88 IROC hardtop had more rattles than my ‘vert. Even after 7 years of ownership, my ragtop never rattled as much as much the IROC. Oh, it rattled, but not as bad.
Mom had a 96, it was a 6 cylinder, so I take that with a grain of salt, butit turned like a 1970 Cadillac as far as radius went and rattled everywhere, plus the AOD was just junk. you are comparing the pre-sn95 vehicles to this one and I can say they are not nearly as alike as one might think.
Rusty Camaro or a somewhat loved and beat on SN95? I’ll take that Mustang save the cash I would have spent on the Camaro for Ford Repairs.
I’d rather push a Chevy than drive
a Fordan SN95.Same price, I’d take the IROC any day. But $5K is way too much for that, and the Mustang at $2800 beats it in my book.
I was going to vote Camaro until I went back the checked the prices. But the correct answer is neither.
I’d rather the Camaro at the Mustang’s price.
Exactly what I was thinking.
Had to go with the Mustang today. Quite frankly, I was never a fan of anything with the bowtie on it.
The Camaro is 10 years older, twice the price, and rusty. I’d pick the Mustang even if the prices were flipped, but at 2800 it is no contest.
Today’s third vote option needs to be Run.
As much as I enjoy the concepts of the Camero and Mustang, neither of these ponies belong in my barn.
From their appearance – I don’t believe either have seen the inside of a barn since they day each had their PDI done.
That price differential pushes me to the Mustang.
The 305 is a slug and you’d have to engine swap it to have any hope of getting enough enjoyment to overcome the mind-bogglingly bad amount of squeaks that are going to be coming out of the rear hatch “area”. Add in the $2200 premium and the ‘stang wins.
Also LOL on the “crowd favorite”.
IROC meathead definitely knows what he has at that price, but the reflective safety yellow thing in the other meathead’s Mustang says it’s been broken on the side of the road once before, and he expects it to happen again.
Bitchin’ Camero for me, thanks.
The reflective vest means they are a blue collar worker. Buy the ‘stang and hope you find a free pocket knife when you are vacuuming under the seats.
I thought it was a vest at first glance but looking more closely I wasn’t so sure. Looks heavier, like a blanket. I think Meathead #2 is more likely to have a shiv than a pocket knife.
This is why you park your cars in the garage, Kids.
Both of these are crackpot – No Thanks.
I wanna IROC …