The automotive enthusiast community in the US seems to have a love/hate relationship with General Motors. The vast majority of its cars are forgettable appliances with uneven reliability records, but when GM gets it right, it can produce some bangers. On the other hand, the company – usually at the management or budgeting level – occasionally makes such boneheaded moves that you wonder whether or not they even like cars.
GM has had so many brands over the years that I doubt anybody could list them all from memory. The company made its fortune by buying up fledgling automakers in the early years. It also has a habit of creating a new brand out of thin air, to great fanfare, and then quietly killing it off a few years later. The result is a ton of dead brand names, some that everybody knows, and some that hardly anyone remembers.
The 2000s were particularly hard on GM brands. The company got into real financial trouble that ended up in a bankruptcy and restructuring, and we lost a lot of brands both before and after that, including two with some real heritage behind them: Oldsmobile and Pontiac. Even during the badge-engineered doldrums of the 1970s and ’80s, these two made GM’s most interesting cars. You could think of them as the cool sisters of Buick and Chevy, and they both had the kind of fun, adventurous energy that GM could use more of today.
For your consideration today, I have found examples of some of Olds and Pontiac’s more compelling 1990s models, for dirt cheap, with only minor things wrong with them. Both offer some open-air opportunities, and both are painted in real colors. Here they are.
1995 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible – $1,200
Engine/drivetrain: 3.4-liter DOHC V6, four-speed automatic, FWD
Location: Reno, NV
Odometer reading: 118,000 miles
Operational status: Runs well, but needs an alternator to be drivable
GM built about a bazillion W-bodies across four divisions, but only Oldsmobile got a convertible version. Or, I suppose, technically I should call it a cabriolet, because the B-pillars and a hoop connecting them stay in place when the top goes down, like the old VW Rabbits. This allows it to keep the trademark W-body coupe B-pillar door handles. I don’t know if this was the only reason for doing it that way, but it’s the coolest side effect.
There were a couple of different “hot” W-body engines available, but Chevrolet and Oldsmobile opted for a 3.4-liter quad-cam version of the corporate 60-degree V6. You could get this engine in a Chevy Lumina Z34 with a five-speed manual, but I think the Oldsmobiles were automatic-only. I’ve seen a Quad 4-powered Cutlass Supreme with a manual, but never the V6. This one starts and runs just fine, but the seller says it needs to be trailered because the alternator is shot. This, of course, means you should replace the battery too, because a bad alternator will often take the battery out with it.
This is about as fancy as a W-body gets inside, with power leather seats and a host of buttons on the steering wheel. It’s the later facelifted dash design, which is more European in layout than the stodgy original design. It looks like it’s in decent shape inside, but it doesn’t have all that many miles on it either.
Outside, the paint is faded and the clearcoat is coming off, but it looks straight. The seller describes the top as “worn,” but I don’t see any obvious tears or damage. We don’t get any photos with the top down, either, but maybe that’s because the bad alternator doesn’t generate enough juice for the power top. It’s worth asking to make sure it works, though. It also appears to have one mismatched wheel, on the right rear; I think that’s a Pontiac Grand Prix wheel, of the same size, but slightly different design.
1997 Pontiac Firebird – $1,500
Engine/drivetrain: 3.8-liter OHV V6, four-speed automatic, RWD
Location: Reno, NV
Odometer reading: 183,000 miles
Operational status: Runs and drives well, but won’t pass smog
Pontiac’s Firebird was always just enough different from its sister model, the Chevy Camaro, to make it its own thing. And the Firebird was always the cooler of the two, and often the better-looking. I’m not crazy about the fourth-generation Camaro and Firebird in general, but I will say that Pontiac managed to make its version look less bulbous, especially in the base trim like this.
Base model Firebirds at one time had as little as 90 horsepower, from an Iron Duke four-cylinder, but by the end, even the cheapest Firebird was rocking 200 horsepower, thanks to a Buick-derived 3800 Series II V6. This one is backed by a 4L60-E overdrive automatic, which suits the car’s character just fine. This one runs and drives well, but it won’t pass Nevada’s emissions test (and by extension, probably any emissions test), so if you need it to, you’ll have to figure out what’s wrong and fix it. If you don’t, well, then the choice to fix it is up to you.
The V6 and the automatic are all right, but the base-model Firebird interior is pretty uninspiring. It might as well be a Cavalier inside. These cookie-cutter gray GM interiors are functional, but they’re just so drab. I guess if you turn the stereo up loud enough, you can forgive a boring interior. And by the way, this one does have T-tops; I know some of you complain every time I post a slick-top F-body. You needn’t worry here.
It appears to be in decent shape outside, but the nose is a slightly different shade of red than the rest of it. I think it has been replaced and not color-matched properly. But who cares? It’s a good-running Firebird with T-tops for fifteen hundred bucks. Nobody is going to complain about some mismatched paint, and if they do, tell them to get lost; you don’t need that kind of negativity.
These are both cheap enough to be impulse purchases for a lot of people, and that can get kind of dangerous. It’s easy to make snap decisions on cheap cars, and regret it later. But neither one of these is really going to drop further in value, either; keep them in running condition, and you can always at least break even. So it’s just a matter of which one you’d rather bomb around in: the drop-top Olds, or the T-top Firebird?
Could happily go either way.
Thinking the same thing!
Oldsmobile just to get those horrible Transformer badges off!
Gotta be the ‘bird. It’s old enough to be exempt from emissions in my state so all good there.
The Olds is and always was a turd. At least you can modify the firebird.
The International Series Olds did briefly pair the DOHC with the manual on the, the sedan especially briefly (at least on the brochures – maybe rarer than a Quad4/MT sedan?) but never on the droptop.
I’m a little iffy on the Olds’ condition here but I’ve always had a weird appreciation for them and this Firebird isn’t interesting enough to me to overcome that, plus higher miles (even if a lower mile DOHC is still a riskier bet).
I actually owned a white DOHC Cutlass with oxblood interior. they sure were sharp looking cars. But quickly found out the short comings of that engine in that vehicle. the alternator is buried down low behind the engine on the passenger side and is not accessible without rocking the engine and trans forward. and while you are there the timing belts probably need replaced. this is a 6 or 9 hour job on the books. that is BMW/Audi level insane. Also the cars were pretty flexible with the top down. I recall watching the windshield flex over bumps on a couple occasions.
Strangely I would actually prefer this particular V6 firebird over even the TA or Formula. Simply because the LTI v8 is decidedly worse than that old DOHC 3.4 even. Optispark junk with no room to access much of anything on the side of the engine.
But a 3.8 Buick V6….That might be fun to play with to see if either a GN turbo setup could be made to fit after the motor was sufficiently rebuilt? or could you even grab a supercharger from a last gen front wheel drive park avenue or something be adapted. It might be a fun thing to try, though I will admit, it would most likely hit a road block and I would lose interest, but it might be fun for a while and I could at least drive it as is in my non-smog state until then.
Only went fireturd because i have the l67 blower to make it real fun.
To change the alternator on that Oldsmobile is a epic pain and balls as it’s in the back bottom of that engine and to get it out is all kinds of fun. Otherwise I would have went with the Oldsmobile
Tough one. I like 4th gens. The pre-facelift Firebird is my second least favorite, after the facelift Camaro*. The mismatched bumper paint on this one requires thorough inspection. V6 could get a blower or turbo to tick off all the LS The World types…or I could just join them and everyone would be ok because it’s a GM car.
I do like this version of the Cutlass Supreme. I think that’s Warren Johnson’s fault. They looked badass as Pro Stocks. That said, I am nearly 40. I am overweight. I am balding. You don’t want to see that in front of you with the top down. You could go blind, and I might get sunburn. At least I can leave the t-tops on, no one will care, and chaos won’t ensue.
Conditional Pontiac pending inspection for front end damage.
*my personal 4th gen F-body tier list:
Late Firebird
Early Camaro
Early Firebird
Late Chrysler Conc- I mean Catfi- I mean Camaro.
The trust distance in between the 3800 and that quad-cam 3.4 makes the Grand Canyon look like a rivulet. Firebird all the way.
Hopefully, it’s just an EGR valve. On 3800s those fail every 6 miles or so.
I’m an unapologetic f-body fan. However I went with the Olds here. It’s roughly the same price without a check engine light on.
I’ve owned several 4th gen F-bodies, and I’ll take another one today. The Olds does nothing for me, but I know I can fix every part of the Firebird with relative ease, so I’ll take the devil I know over the devil I don’t.
Of note on that V6 Firebird: it has the Y87 package, which makes it a better buy for a V6. Though the seller didn’t show the RPO codes, it does have the tire specs, and the eagle-eyed V6 owner will note the 235/55R16 specced tires, which only came on the Y87 equipped V6es.
The Y87 pcakage added the following:
3.42 Rear Diff on Automatic cars (with an Auburn positraction LSD) versus 3.06 from the base auto. Manual V6 cars have 3.23 on both regular and Y87 cars.
11.4″ rear disc brakes from the V8s
14.1 ratio steering rack from the V8s for faster steering
Dual-outlet exhaust
Wider 235/55R18 tires
This makes the car feel, well, like a slower Formula. But shortening up the rear gears on the automatic car wakes it up quite a bit compared to an actual base auto box.
I learned something today!
The 93-97 firebird to me is possibly the ugliest Firebirds ever built and I have never care for them much prefer 98-02 4th gens. But that doesn’t mean I would commit sacrilege and vote against the Firebird.
I learned to drive on a 97 Cutlass Supreme, it was a sedan with the 3.1, not nearly this cool, but I have always loved these as a result. I have never heard a single good thing about that DOHC engine, but since both are automatics I went for the drop top. I had a Trans Am of this gen, with the T-Tops and got rained on enough from those terrible seals.
Oh man this was hard, I love me W bodies and I like the Olds esp with the convertible. But it comes down to engine, the 3.8 (I thought these were L32 3.4s, maybe that was earlier in the run) are bullet proof, the LQ1’s are a nightmare to work on.
The base 4th gen F-bodies got the 3.4 from ’93-95, but after that they stepped it up to the 3.8.
I’d love to have a 3.8 5-speed 4th gen to rallycross.
yeah that makes sense, and yeah that would be fun!!
A friend had that same Olds, same color, much nicer condition. Had a hard time selling it and I don’t think he got much more than this ask. Good Radwood material, I guess…
I would pick the Firebird for the bulletproof 3.8 but the rest of the package doesn’t do it for me.
Wait, which car won yesterday? Don’t we normally get a little blurb about that?
Firebird for me today, thanks.
he’s on a cruise so we have to wait till next week for the winners!
Ah, he did mention that on Monday. Thanks!
Firebird all the way. We have no inspections in my state, so no worries there, but also if there was a better candidate for cheap V8 swap, I have never seen it.
There’s a reason these things haven’t been fixed.
It is a glorious pain to do anything engine-adjacent on a 3.4 DOHC V6 W-body.
It is a glorious pain to probably fix whatever’s tucked under the cowl of the F-Body.
You can at least hoon the F-body as a runner (in a non-emissions place).
Yes, it is indeed a pain to do the alternator on that 3.4 DOHC.
And while you’re in there, you might as well either do the head gaskets, or just rip out that lump altogether and throw in a normal 3.4. That engine is just awful all around!
Have fun changing out the spark plugs and wires on the 3.8. The engines were bulletproof but they were so hot that they’d melt wires and foul plugs easily.
That said, the SES is probably due to ignition; do a plugs/wires/coils job, change out the O2 sensors, and make sure the cat is good and the car will probably pass just fine.
For a 180,000 mile F-body with a visibly different front clip (crashed?) that’s priced at $1,500, I might try the plugs and wires.
More than that? The sucking sound is perfectly good money going down the hole.
I wouldn’t daily it but as a base for a project race car you could certainly do worse.
I really, really, wanted one of those firebirds back then, so it’s my choice today.
Same.
I really like Cutlasses…but up next to (what appears to be) a pretty clean Firebird, this one doesn’t take it. In reality, they’re both pretty good deals today.
I always liked the front end of the W-Bodied Cutlass, but not this one when compared to the Firebird. It just screams slap a cheap turbo on me and crank the radio to 11.When I blow the v6, there are plenty more to be had for cheap.
I’ve always had a soft spot for these Olds convertibles, I just like the long, low, look of them. It’s also something with the four squinty little headlights hiding in the slot in the nose, and yes, even the basket handle. The top almost certainly leaks, the paint is smoked and it probably squeaks EVERYWHERE, but for $1200 I’m going for it.
The Firebird is likely the better choice (assuming Smog isn’t an issue in your locality) but I’ve never really been that enthralled with the looks of this generation and without either the V8 and/or and stick, isn’t just not enticing for me at all.
I really dig those Cutlass Supremes, but this one is just a little too ragged out for me. I’ll have the Firebird.
Same here. However, I’ve owned one of that generation Firebird, but mine was a 6 speed, WS6 Trans Am. This one might be a bit of a disappointment every time I got behind the wheel.
Still voted for it.
I’d rallycross it. I wouldn’t mind it being a V6, but I would always wish it was at least a 5-speed.
I’m not much of a convertible person, especially a generic Olds that needs work.
Between the two? Easily the Firebird! (I had two 84 Camaro’s back in the day). Figure out a way to crank some Def Leppard and relive my glory days, even if it’s a V6 and auto.