The automotive enthusiast community in the US seems to have a love/hate relationship with General Motors. The vast majority of its cars are forgettable appliances with uneven reliability records, but when GM gets it right, it can produce some bangers. On the other hand, the company – usually at the management or budgeting level – occasionally makes such boneheaded moves that you wonder whether or not they even like cars.
GM has had so many brands over the years that I doubt anybody could list them all from memory. The company made its fortune by buying up fledgling automakers in the early years. It also has a habit of creating a new brand out of thin air, to great fanfare, and then quietly killing it off a few years later. The result is a ton of dead brand names, some that everybody knows, and some that hardly anyone remembers.
The 2000s were particularly hard on GM brands. The company got into real financial trouble that ended up in a bankruptcy and restructuring, and we lost a lot of brands both before and after that, including two with some real heritage behind them: Oldsmobile and Pontiac. Even during the badge-engineered doldrums of the 1970s and ’80s, these two made GM’s most interesting cars. You could think of them as the cool sisters of Buick and Chevy, and they both had the kind of fun, adventurous energy that GM could use more of today.
For your consideration today, I have found examples of some of Olds and Pontiac’s more compelling 1990s models, for dirt cheap, with only minor things wrong with them. Both offer some open-air opportunities, and both are painted in real colors. Here they are.
1995 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible – $1,200
Engine/drivetrain: 3.4-liter DOHC V6, four-speed automatic, FWD
Location: Reno, NV
Odometer reading: 118,000 miles
Operational status: Runs well, but needs an alternator to be drivable
GM built about a bazillion W-bodies across four divisions, but only Oldsmobile got a convertible version. Or, I suppose, technically I should call it a cabriolet, because the B-pillars and a hoop connecting them stay in place when the top goes down, like the old VW Rabbits. This allows it to keep the trademark W-body coupe B-pillar door handles. I don’t know if this was the only reason for doing it that way, but it’s the coolest side effect.
There were a couple of different “hot” W-body engines available, but Chevrolet and Oldsmobile opted for a 3.4-liter quad-cam version of the corporate 60-degree V6. You could get this engine in a Chevy Lumina Z34 with a five-speed manual, but I think the Oldsmobiles were automatic-only. I’ve seen a Quad 4-powered Cutlass Supreme with a manual, but never the V6. This one starts and runs just fine, but the seller says it needs to be trailered because the alternator is shot. This, of course, means you should replace the battery too, because a bad alternator will often take the battery out with it.
This is about as fancy as a W-body gets inside, with power leather seats and a host of buttons on the steering wheel. It’s the later facelifted dash design, which is more European in layout than the stodgy original design. It looks like it’s in decent shape inside, but it doesn’t have all that many miles on it either.
Outside, the paint is faded and the clearcoat is coming off, but it looks straight. The seller describes the top as “worn,” but I don’t see any obvious tears or damage. We don’t get any photos with the top down, either, but maybe that’s because the bad alternator doesn’t generate enough juice for the power top. It’s worth asking to make sure it works, though. It also appears to have one mismatched wheel, on the right rear; I think that’s a Pontiac Grand Prix wheel, of the same size, but slightly different design.
1997 Pontiac Firebird – $1,500
Engine/drivetrain: 3.8-liter OHV V6, four-speed automatic, RWD
Location: Reno, NV
Odometer reading: 183,000 miles
Operational status: Runs and drives well, but won’t pass smog
Pontiac’s Firebird was always just enough different from its sister model, the Chevy Camaro, to make it its own thing. And the Firebird was always the cooler of the two, and often the better-looking. I’m not crazy about the fourth-generation Camaro and Firebird in general, but I will say that Pontiac managed to make its version look less bulbous, especially in the base trim like this.
Base model Firebirds at one time had as little as 90 horsepower, from an Iron Duke four-cylinder, but by the end, even the cheapest Firebird was rocking 200 horsepower, thanks to a Buick-derived 3800 Series II V6. This one is backed by a 4L60-E overdrive automatic, which suits the car’s character just fine. This one runs and drives well, but it won’t pass Nevada’s emissions test (and by extension, probably any emissions test), so if you need it to, you’ll have to figure out what’s wrong and fix it. If you don’t, well, then the choice to fix it is up to you.
The V6 and the automatic are all right, but the base-model Firebird interior is pretty uninspiring. It might as well be a Cavalier inside. These cookie-cutter gray GM interiors are functional, but they’re just so drab. I guess if you turn the stereo up loud enough, you can forgive a boring interior. And by the way, this one does have T-tops; I know some of you complain every time I post a slick-top F-body. You needn’t worry here.
It appears to be in decent shape outside, but the nose is a slightly different shade of red than the rest of it. I think it has been replaced and not color-matched properly. But who cares? It’s a good-running Firebird with T-tops for fifteen hundred bucks. Nobody is going to complain about some mismatched paint, and if they do, tell them to get lost; you don’t need that kind of negativity.
These are both cheap enough to be impulse purchases for a lot of people, and that can get kind of dangerous. It’s easy to make snap decisions on cheap cars, and regret it later. But neither one of these is really going to drop further in value, either; keep them in running condition, and you can always at least break even. So it’s just a matter of which one you’d rather bomb around in: the drop-top Olds, or the T-top Firebird?
Pontiac for condition and engine. Superb examples of the Cutlass pop up at $5-$7K and would be a smarter buy–I kind of like these convertibles, though I don’t think they’d be much fun to tinker with. Yesterday’s BMW is still the winner.
Hell, even IF the Olds only needed an alternator (highly unlikely), as others have noted, that’s an all day job on these. In addition to dropping the engine cradle, an alternator swap on these also usually requires removing the passenger front strut assembly. That alone is explanation enough as to why the seller can’t be bothered.
It’s the ‘Bird for me.
Neither are perfect, but both seem like decent buys at those prices. Picked the Olds due to its uniqueness.
Yes they are Cavalier seats.
And look 1000% better than those Cutlass that has 33% fewer miles.
At some point in the future, both will probably develop leaks. I went with the Firebird for the easier fix when that happens.
I don’t want either one, but figure the T-top on the Pontiac will be a bit less floppy than that awful looking Oldmobile ragtop.
I’m going with the Pontiac for one simple reason… it’s an OBD2 car.
That 1995 Oldsmobile is an “OBD1.5” car. It’s already bad enough that it has that 3.4L OHV-Converted-to-DOHC mongrel of an engine. But with it being “OBD 1.5”, you’ll need a special scanner that has an OBD2 connector but reads OBD1… maybe.
Here’s a discussion thread that gets into the implications of this:
https://www.w-body.com/topic/45532-1995-cutlass-which-obd-where-is-dlc-location-scanner-recommendation/
So since that Pontiac is firmly OBD2, figuring out the smog/emissions issue should be relatively straightforward. The system will tell you if you need O2 sensors or a catalytic converter or something else.
I’ve owned OBD1 cars and I can say that OBD2 is better to have than OBD1. And being in a weird transition year is worse than either OBD1 or OBD2.
On top of that, the 3.8L V6 in that Pontiac is a well known and well supported engine compared to the DOHC engine in the Olds.
So the Pontiac gets my vote.
Came here to say the same thing – I can stick a scanner on the ‘bird, and Buick 3800 for the win. Not to mention the decent paint.
I’ve always liked this model cutlass, especially the convertible, but the Firebird with T-tops is perfectly fine and seems to be in better shape.
Firebird won’t pass smog? No smog testing here. I’ll take it.
I don’t want the olds last gen fire turd it is.
Red T-top all day everyday
I like them both, so a bit of tough call. I’ve always had a soft spot for this Cutlass Supreme model and since the Firebird is not a V8, I’m going Olds school.
I’ll take the F-Bird with the engine pointed in the right direction powering the right wheels through the wrong transmission. But most importantly, “Ride, Pontiac! Ride!!!”
RWD>FWD although I prefer the Green. All other things are basically equal. These aren’t performance machines, they should be plenty reliable and fine to drive around in I think.
I really don’t want that Olds so I guess Firebird wins today. I’d have to deal with the smog which I have done before and don’t like. Hopefully something simple like a bad EGR or O2 sensor.
Just needs an alternator. Sure thing – I don’t believe that for a bit.
Neither are desirable but given a choice I’ll take the one that actually runs.
Oh it might just need the alternator… but it being the OHV-converted-to-DOHC mongrel of a V6, doing that job is way harder than is typical.
I just did some checking and it most certainly IS way harder than is typical. Here’s a quote from the W-body.com thread:
“Revised ALLDATA procedure says to drop rear of engine cradle 4″ to remove the alternator. I did this and after having everything undone, it still could not get the c**k sucker out! Any suggestions? It has been upgraded with the later model internal fan style alternator.”
I remember being amazed that some GM vehicles of this era needed the front wheel and fender liner removed to replace the alternator, this is worse.
I have a soft spot for this generation of Firebird and Camaro. And this being an undesirable configuration, makes it a fun blank canvas that you don’t have to worry too much about ruining a coveted example of a future classic
Neither is desirable to me, but put my feet to the fire; slowsmobile for me. I’ll have fun cleaning it up, fixing alternator and spiffing it out. Lower miles, hopefully mean less drive train issues.
My heart wants the Oldsmobile, I’m a sucker for vertical handles in the B pillar. But there’s no denying a Firebird with t tops.
Going to focus on the “cheap” part to guide my choice today.
I have always loved the late gen Cutlass Supremes, and the convertibles were at the top of the list when they were being sold new. My problem is that I’d be too tempted to throw money at this thing in order to make it “right” in my eyes – not only the mechanicals, but interior, paint, getting the right wheel, etc. That’s money that would absolutely NEVER come back in any real way, but it would feel good once it was done.
The money part really isn’t that big of an issue on the Firebird. About the only thing I’d be somewhat tempted to do is to paint the nose to match the rest, and even then – maybe an old school bra might do the trick well enough. I know it’s not a V-8, but it still would be good (and cheap) fun.
Note the V6 bird has almost the same HP as V8 birds of the previous generation. My former landlord had almost this exact car, and it wasn’t unfun to drive – once I changed out the original sparkplug that had been in there for 150k miles and skipped by the previous person who did spark plugs on the car.
To say neither of these are my first choice would be a substantial understatement.
Since I had to pick one, I went with the Firebird. It is less ugly. I was mostly voting against the Olds, though. That car looks really weird as a convertible. It has a home built six-pack-and-a-sawzall look to it. I can’t believe it came from the factory looking like this. Plus, this thing is not in good condition. The original ad shows the top has been patched (duct taped?) and has at least one hole in it. Seller notes that cars like this are getting hard to find; that might be the only good thing I can say about it.
That 3.8 in the Pontiac is just begging for an eBay turbo and there’s gobs of room to shove one into the engine bay along with the necessary plumbing, and that GM cloth interior is about the best seating you can find in cars. Tasty power bump with not-wrong forced induction is an easy win.
Not driving a firebird unless it’s a v8. At least the top goes down on the cutlass.
But but T-tops are much cooler then a lame cloth top
I’ll give you that. Didn’t notice it had t-tops.