Good morning! Today is November 2nd, el Día de los Muertos in Mexico and elsewhere, a day when families pay their respects to departed loved ones and celebrate their lives. I thought it fitting, therefore, that we pay our respects to two gone-but-not-forgotten automotive brands. (It is also All Souls Day, but I really didn’t feel like talking about Korean subcompacts.) Continuing with our Interstate theme for the week, today’s choices are both within shouting distance of the ends of Interstate 80.
But before we pay a visit to the dearly departed, let’s finish up with yesterday’s V8s. I had a feeling this one might be close, and I was right.
Just ten votes separating them as of this writing. I’m on Team Mustang, for what it’s worth. A BMW sedan would have to be a good ten or fifteen years older than that before I’d touch it.
Now then: GM’s money troubles, bankruptcy, and subsequent restructuring in the 2000s left a trail of dead nameplates. Oldsmobile went first, then Hummer, Pontiac, Saturn, and Saab all got the axe, though Saab was sold off to Spyker and died a slow death. Opel and Vauxhall were later sold off to PSA (now Stellantis). And poor Holden staggered along, mortally wounded, for another decade, giving GM’s American customers some of its coolest cars in a long time before calling it quits.
Between these marques, there were some great cars, far more interesting than whatever Chevy or Buick crossover dreck GM is churning out now, and nearly all of them better looking than those appalling current-generation full-size pickups. Today, we’re going to take a look at two of them, a Saab and a Pontiac.
2001 Saab 9-5 Aero – $3,750
Engine/drivetrain: Turbocharged 2.3 liter dual overhead cam inline 4, four-speed automatic, FWD
Location: Fairfield, CA
Odometer reading: 140,000 miles
Runs/drives? Yep!
Let’s just finally admit it: GM had no business owning Saab. The Swedish automaker not only marched to its own drummer; it invented its own percussion instruments, and sometimes even made up its own time signatures. GM had its wild moments – the Corvair and the Toronado come to mind – but most of the time it put out a steady back-beat you could dance to. To further torture the metaphor: If GM was Phil Collins, Saab was some mutant offspring of Gene Krupa and Neil Peart, on some serious mind-altering substances. GM was out of its depth. A rebadged Subaru and a Chevy SUV with its ignition switch in a weird spot were just no substitute for the twisted genius of the 99 Turbo and the Sonett.
The 9-5 is about halfway along Saab’s transition from “roadgoing jet” to “weird Chevy.”
[Ed note: Oops, Mark got the Saab 9-3 and the Saab 9-5 confused, partially because the seller of the car also seems confused about what this is. It does indeed have the 2.3-turbo engine which, in this form, probably has the 227 horsepower version of the B235R engine. The platform is shared with Saab 9-3 and Saab 900 Next Gen. We regret the error. – MH]
Saab interiors were always a nice place to be, and this one looks like no exception. It’s driver-focused, and distraction-free, especially when you switch the instrument panel to “Night” mode, an idea that should have caught on. The leather is in decent condition, and the weird fragile cupholder that folds out from the dash appears to be intact. It’s a sign that someone was careful with this car.
Outside, it’s pretty clean, except for a decent dent in the right rear door. Ordinarily, I might bemoan the choice of silver when actual colors were available, but Saabs look good in silver. And I love the many varieties of three-spoke wheels Saabs wore over the years, and these are especially cool.
2003 Pontiac Vibe – $3,900
Engine/drivetrain: 1.8 liter dual overhead cam inline 4, four-speed automatic, FWD
Location: Totowa, NJ
Odometer reading: 93,000 miles
Runs/drives? I assume so, but the ad is a little terse
The Pontiac Vibe traces its roots back to the early 1980s, when GM and Toyota joined forces to form New United Motor Manufacturing, Inc. This joint venture built Toyota Corolla-based vehicles in GM’s Fremont, California factory, which were sold as Chevy Novas and later Geo Prizms. After 2002, when the Prizm was discontinued, the NUMMI factory switched to Toyota’s new Matrix wagon, GM switched their version from Chevy to Pontiac, and the Vibe was born.
This base-model Vibe is powered by Toyota’s 1.8 liter 1ZZ-FE engine, coupled to a four-speed automatic. It’s a sturdy enough drivetrain, if not the most inspiring. A higher-horsepower engine, five- and six-speed manuals, and all wheel drive were all options the original buyer of this car didn’t spring for. This is another one of those very terse ads, and we get virtually no information about the car, but I assume that if they mention that it has been equipped with remote start, it must run and drive. Besides, at only 93,000 miles, it should barely be broken in.
The low mileage explains the car’s condition inside and out. It looks practically new. I really wish we had some more information about its history and condition. Too many sellers forget that Craigslist doesn’t charge by the word like the printed classifieds did – you can be as verbose as you like. Give us something to work with!
I really like the Vibe, and I came close to buying a Matrix once. It’s a good size, with lots of room inside and tidy proportions outside. And like the Chevy Nova and Geo Prizm before it, the Vibe flies a bit under the radar in the used car market, and largely avoids the dreaded “Toyota tax.” A Matrix with this few miles, in this condition, would probably cost a grand or two more.
Thousands of car companies have come and gone, of course, and not a few of them were bought, and later axed, by General Motors. Pontiac and Saab are just two of the more recent ones. Neither of these are brilliant cars, but they both have their place in the history books, and either of them would make a better-than-average cheap used car, I think. Which one is for you?
(Image credits: Craigslist sellers)
I was staring at all the photos after reading this 9-5 was called a 9-3. It bothered the hell out of me because I knew better. And then I came down to the comments and saw that I wasn’t crazy. For Autopian to refer to the Saab as a shitbox, but not even know the difference between the two models, is troubling. Where the hell was the editor?
Maybe it was a quick look with their Naked Eye =D
Good username….
Those Vibes are absolutely bulletproof little wagons. The odometers stop working at 299999 (whether miles or kms) and I see tons around, still in active use, with mileages well over that number. And I’ve seen some with that many miles listed at a similar price to this one.
If this was anywhere near me I’d be looking to pick it up as a commuter car with an expectation of it lasting another 5-10 years.
That Vibe will last another 5-10 owners.
Certainly if it’s in a salt-free environment. Only rust could kill it.
I do kind of feel like maybe another orphan sportyish boosted sort of 4 door might not be more appropriate competition for the SAAaab. https://www.redlineforums.com/threads/2004-saturn-ion-redline.90261/
I can’t believe I’m going for the Vibe over the Saab (9-5 as others have mentioned) but I am. If I’m buying a 9-5 and having to live with the frustration of post Saab-death ownership, it needs to be a wagon, and it needs to be a little cleaner than this one. That Vibe is hardly even broken in yet, and looks surprisingly well-loved for a 20(!) year old hatchback.
I’m with you. At this point, the only Saabs I would consider would have to either be wagons or have the word “Viggen” on them. That Vibe, depending upon how much New Jersey rust it has, is going to last a long time and be utterly useful the whole time.
Decision tree: both are fwd automatic. Both are GM products. SAABs are cool—but GM SAABs less so (in my eyes). Vibe has a hatch: done!
The only GM components of a Vibe are the Delco radio and the Pontiac badge. Everything else is straight Toyota.
I prefer the looks of the Saab, and it would probably be much more fun to drive regardless of Auto trans and wrong wheels spinning, but the low mile Toyota is really just the perfect Daily on a budget…and with a heart of a Toyota, the parts to keep it going are likely far easier to find these days. Of course those could also be famous last words.
As cool as the Saab would be, that Vibe is a Toyota for under $4k and it’ll outlive us all
Also-I’m sure some of you all are familiar with the asking men about how often they think about the fall of the Roman Empire meme…and while it’s funny, I think “asking how often you think about the demise of Saab” would be more appropriate…because I think about what a grave injustice it was all the time
I genuinely think about the death of Saab… weekly? Maybe a few times a week? Every time I see a Saab?
I think of SAAB way more often than any empire. That meme is weird and I don’t believe most of the people that say like “multiple times a day”. I am right there with Taargus,
I will add Saturn to that list. Also killed by GM. Any time I see a Saab or a Saturn I am filled with rage at GM. Just like every time I see a(n empty, dilapidated) Sears I am angry at Eddie Fucking Lampert.
Loved my Saturn. I had a ‘95 SL2 with a stick, before they were just rebranded cars from other GM divisions. It was quick enough and very reliable. RIP polymer panels!
We had a ’97 with a stick that passed from kid to kid. A very fun car to learn on!
“Too many sellers forget that Craigslist doesn’t charge by the word like the printed classifieds did”
Ouch, I feel old because I know exactly what you mean. Imagine someone using classifieds shorthand on Craigslist, that would be so meta.
Really, it’s a 9-5? (Squints closely at photos) Aw, dammit. I knew that. Really I did. I trusted the ad, which I should know not to do.
Hey, at least give me credit for knowing my drummers…
*YYZ drum solo intensifies*
Tomas Haake has entered the chat
He’s not human. I’m convinced Jens and company have to set him up/plug him in before every show.
I’ll just leave this here.
https://youtu.be/3D_Phw8ib9I?si=wZJ2FfQV0tvjzHeQ
Good shitbox stuff today! Thanks.
l’ll take shitbox Toyotas for 200 Alex.
First and foremost-this is a Saab 9-5, not a 9-3. The regular 9-3 from this generation was a hatchback, and I would know….my dad owned one. It was black on black with a manual transmission. I thought it was cool as hell and it was definitely one of the cars that swayed me towards being an enthusiast as a kiddo. I was at an impressionable age and my dad was really proud of that car-he’d talk to me about it all the time while we rolled around listening to one of the albums he had in the sunshade mounted CD-holder, which was very cool back then.
Melon Collie and Nevermind were my favorites of his lot. Ahhh, memories. Anyway my mom made him sell it for a Volvo. She thought its zippy nature made it too dangerous for schlepping kids around and she really struggled with the manual. I’ve heard that Saab sticks from this era are a bit finicky so I don’t think it was necessarily on her.
The 9-5 of this era was always a little more plain Jane to me, and as you all know as a member of Hot Hatch Gang I will personally always go hatchback when it’s an option. But still, nostalgia goggles and my love of our dearly departed but not forgotten Saab make this an easy call for me, common sense be damned.
I learned to drive stick on a ’96 900 (later renamed to the 9-3) and learned later that it was not a very easy car to learn on. The clutch was a bit finicky and the engagement point wasn’t particularly obvious. After the Saab I drove a few other manual-equipped cars and would always remark “is this what the clutch should actually feel like?” There’s also the chance my clutch was beat after 150k and a teenager learning to drive on it with zero instruction.
It was a blast to drive otherwise.
Clutch could go either way, but I do remember that Saab MTs often received criticism at the time by the media, in particular the balky shifters.
I never had an issue with the shifter itself, but it was also the only one I had ever known at the time.
Can confirm, the shifter is balky. The transmission innards themselves give good, notchy engagement, but the shifter linkage assembly is kind of floppy.
I was taught to drive stick in an NA Miata, which people have told me was a difficult car to learn on. I don’t really agree, the clutch is a little vague but it’s nice and light/springy and the shifter itself has pretty well defined gates.
The second manual car I ever drove was a 90’s Subaru Legacy wagon. It was used as a company car for a small engineering firm I worked for right out of college. That was the heaviest clutch I’ve ever experience, it felt like I was trying to lift a damn anvil. It made me appreciate the Saab clutch a little more, lol.
Me too! It was my sister’s 1990. I loved that car and would take it whenever I could. Unfortunately, I ended up wrecking it taking a turn too quickly in the rain. Dumb high school me! I still want one. I can’t believe how pricey they are getting, tho! One of the best manuals I ever drove.
The manual 900’s had a cable (aka string) connecting the clutch pedal to the clutch. It was thin and tended to break, thus “string.”
Well, that was a difficult choice for me…
You chose the Saturn? 🙂
Even if this were a 9-3, which it isn’t, it’d be a far more rewarding car than the Vibe. Not that the Vibe is a bad car, it’s just…not a Saab.
Ill take the vibe!!
It doesnt have the 5-speed, which wasnt meant for a vehicle that heavy so they locked up eventually. Itnalsondoent have awd, whos irs was known for rotting. The only potential issue is rust behind the plastic body cladding.
My then-girlfriend, now-wife bought a 05 vibe 5 speed in april 2020. I taught her to drive stick, and the thing was great. 35+mpg no problem, and we fit just as much in that as we did in her gladiator. Its gone now, too soon, since we didnt think we needed it anymore. Then we did and got sad. We had been vibin with the vibe. Now our vibin vibe is gone.
I think the Vibe with the 4-speed auto is a high watermark for boring-yet-practical hatchbacks. Every time I look at a crossover, I just think, “Man, my old Vibe would do that better.”
Having owned both the auto and manual, I can confirm the Vibe’s 5-speed was proof that not all manual transmissions are an improvement over their automatic counterparts. The ratio was not right for an engine with that torque curve and a vehicle with that weight, so it was nigh impossible to fully let the clutch out in first gear without stalling, lurching, or spinning the tires. Eventually the synchro on mine went out (probably due to excessive clutch slipping).
Every time people talk about manual transmissions like they’re the cure to boring economy cars, I have flashbacks to getting stuck in traffic with that horrible 5-speed.
That Saab would maybe be worth the price if it didn’t have the door damage. As someone that has owned a 1999 9-5 auto (non-Aero), a 2003 Aero wagon (5spd), and currently a 240k 2001 9-5 Aero wagon (also 5 spd), it’s the little pieces that can be a pain to find at times and require eBay/junkyard purchases. The 9-5 in the ad is also missing the front chin spoiler/splitter/whatever.
At that mileage, you are hitting a maintenance interval. If the water pump hasn’t been done yet, it probably isn’t long for this world. The turbo lasts a long time in these. The auto transmission is fine. Multiple oil seals may be leaking/seeping slightly, so whoever wants this car needs $1k to get ready to replace a few things to have it perfectly reliable.
As is, it’s at least $1k too expensive.
I always think US cars are at least a grand overpriced, so I factor that prejudice in when I’m voting.
Normally, I would be a Snaab, but….
My uncle had a similar-vintage Matrix (stick), and every time I drove it, I thought “what a useful car this is.” Decent torque, good on gas, good to drive, held all sorts of crap. It wasn’t exciting, but it won me over anyway.
This Vibe isn’t as good looking, but looks OK, and compared to the potential mechanical eccentricities of the Saab, it’s a winner.
The Pontiac ad maybe be terse, but somehow I trust it more. Maybe that’s just the car itself, but it is a clean example and I feel like you don’t see early base Vibes with the painted cladding like this one, that option became more common in later years. I like Saabs, be it 9-5 or 9-3 – as pointed out it’s the former, although the ad only mentions the model in the title and says “Saab Aero” in the heading and body, so they got it wrong or didn’t know initially. The tear in the bumper where the ripped out passenger headlight wiper was ripped off really makes it look like a sobbing Saab, but I can’t save it.
Also if you’re going to have an open bottle of soda in the car at least put in the cupholder rather than the floor…assuming it fully unfolds.
I’m a lifelong Saabist, but this one does not appeal. It’s a sedan with an auto: two strikes. The Vibe also has a strike (auto, again), but it’s a neat little hatch/wagon with Toyota bones. That wins today.
I might have to go and look at that Vibe. I am driving to NJ this weekend anyway, and that might be a great replacement for my commuter car.
Both are good choices and both are cars that I like. I’m going with the Vibe due to cargo capacity and overall condition. The Saab looks very nice at first glance, but if you take a close look at the photos it is a bit rough (scuffs on the bumpers, a dent on the passenger side rear door, white paint or something spilled on the rear seat, missing headlight wiper, small stains on the carpet, etc.). This is a good example of why to thoroughly clean your car prior to taking listing photographs – the owner made a somewhat rough car look very nice.
Really want to vote Saab, but that dent and Toyota reliability killed it in today’s competition. Not to mention the watered-downness of this “Saab”. That Vibe will run forever and all important parts are available at the local Toyota dealer.
I love Saab’s but I can’t go against a Toyota built car from that era
That’s definitely a Saab 9-5, not the 9-3. A 2001 9-3 would have been the “OG” semi-opel-based one, which only came as a 3- or 5-door hatch or convertible. The history you listed there is for the 900/9-3 line, not the 9000/9-5 line that this car is (even if it’s mis-listed in the ad)
I have a soft spot for Saabs, having owned an ’88 900 sedan, an ’86 9000, an ’06 9-3 sedan and an ’09 9-3 wagon, but had to go with the Vibe here.
There doesn’t seem to be much wrong with the 9-5 shown, but I don’t know how much parts commonality these had with other GM cars at the time. Deride it all you want, but both of the 9-3’s I had were better for the shared parts (mostly base engine – not turbo, head, or calibration, transmission, and suspension), and the lower cost of shared parts helped keep them on the road very economically.
The vibe is just a very useful, compact, well-packaged car even with an uninspiring powertrain. I convinced my parents to buy a Vibe GT of this generation with the 6-speed manual and 2ZZ, and while that engine & transmission really was the star of the show, the rest of the car was very competent, useful, and put up with decades of ambivalent maintenance well before a mechanic’s mis-diagnosis resulted in a blown radiator and warped head, sending it to the junkyard a couple years ago.
Gimme that Vibe!
I bought an even lower mileage one owned by the proverbial little old lady who only drove it to church and her job as a kindergarten teacher. It was my daughter’s first car, and she loved it!
Then she rear ended someone and it was totaled.
However, even after paying the deductible, I ended up getting $500 more than I paid for it a couple years before!
Would buy again!
Good point. I have had two Toys totaled by insurance that were repaired in the driveway and regret letting them both go. Actually I have regretted selling all my Toys except for one.