If you’ve been lurking around Weird Car Twitter lately, you might have caught the banter about an interesting statistic that paints Fiat in a sad yet hilarious light. The brand isn’t exactly hitting home runs right now in one particular market, with its sales figures leaving much to be desired. Specifically: there are more Fiat dealerships in the U.S. than the number of cars it sold last quarter.
Do the math, and you’ll realize that means a great proportion of Fiat dealerships actually failed to sell a single car in three whole months. The numbers are stark. There are 359 Fiat dealerships across the country, but the brand sold just 145 vehicles for the whole of Q3.
![Vidframe Min Top](https://images-stag.jazelc.com/uploads/theautopian-m2en/vidframe_min_top1.png)
![Vidframe Min Bottom](https://images-stag.jazelc.com/uploads/theautopian-m2en/vidframe_min_bottom1.png)
Let’s put that number into context. Fiat sold a full 50 cars in its best month this year. By contrast, Ford has sold an average of 78 F-Series trucks per hour in 2023. Chevrolet sold an average of 51 Silverados per hour, just topping Fiat’s best month. Even the Toyota RAV4 is selling around 1,000 examples a day, which is more than Fiat has sold all year. And that’s just one model for each of these automakers, to say nothing of the rest of their range.
![Screenshot 2023 12 01 120322](https://images-stag.jazelc.com/uploads/theautopian-m2en/Screenshot-2023-12-01-120322.png)
It bears noting that the picture wasn’t much rosier a year ago. Fiat sold just 209 cars in Q3 last year. The last quarter Fiat sold more cars than its current number of dealerships was Q3 2021, when it sold a total of 400 vehicles. The last month in which it sold more cars than that figure was September 2020, with 372 cars sold.
Obviously, the number of active dealerships has waxed and waned over that time; Automotive News noted the brand had 377 active dealers in 2019. It should be said that the vast majority of Fiat dealerships are combined with other brands; at that time, 281 were tied to Chrysler-Dodge-Jeep-Ram dealers and 90 were joint dealers with Alfa Romeo. Just six were standalone stores. Regardless, it’s an interesting way to ballpark the figures.
![Fiatsale](https://images-stag.jazelc.com/uploads/theautopian-m2en/fiatsale.png)
The Italian brand’s fortunes have seen a slow and steady decline in the United States. Once upon a time, Fiat set lofty targets. It wanted to hit 50,000 sales in 2011, and 78,000 by 2013. Sadly, those numbers were never to be. It reached 46,999 in 2012, and stayed above the 40,000 mark until 2015. A 20% drop off in 2016 saw it drop to just 33,777 units sold, and it’s been all downhill since there.
Much of that likely comes down to Fiat’s threadbare model lineup. Indeed, the Fiat 500X stands today as the brand’s only car on sale. The 2020 model year saw the loss of the regular Fiat 500, 500e, and the raunchy 500 Abarth. The 124 Spider and 500L were then discontinued for 2021, leaving the 500X as the sole survivor. Fiat has seen fit to give the 500X regular updates over the years, but there’s only so much that can be done with a vehicle that’s been on sale here since the 2016 model year.
The story is drastically different on the global stage, however. Outside the U.S., Fiat made a banner start to 2023, chalking up 645,000 sales globally in the first half of the year. Those figures made it the best performing brand in the broader Stellantis group. It kicked goals across the globe, becoming the market leader in Brazil, Italy and Turkey. The Fiat New 500 has been a particular star, and was the best-selling battery electric vehicle in the Stellantis stable.
![2232984 Sxn7j6wf54 Whr](https://images-stag.jazelc.com/uploads/theautopian-m2en/2232984-sxn7j6wf54-whr.jpg)
Fiat isn’t tapping out just yet, though. The new 500e is coming in the first quarter of 2024, and the brand surely hopes this fresh, new compact EV could reignite some sales and get things going again. Genuinely, though, that’s about the extent of Fiat’s immediate future plans for the U.S. market. If it’s a hit, and Fiat can bring it stateside in serious numbers, it could see the brand reverse its current slump. Those are big hopes to pin on a single new model, though, and for now at least, it doesn’t look like Fiat has much else in the pipeline for America.
It’s interesting to contrast Fiat’s great performance overseas versus its near-non-existent sales in the U.S. market. It’s clear the brand is finding ways to connect with customers elsewhere, with compelling product that people want to buy. With Fiat making bank elsewhere, Stellantis can probably afford to keep the U.S. arm afloat for the time being. However, it’s going to need to shift a lot more than 50 cars a month to justify Fiat’s continued presence in America. Here’s hoping it can find a way.
Image credits: Fiat
Let us not forget that Fiat pulled out of the US market in 1982. The last new Fiat cars sold in the US were of the 1982 model year…until the 2011 Fiat 500 debuted nearly 30 years later! It is not much of a stretch to say that most Americans don’t know what a Fiat is. They do not know that Fiat exists. Despite the ambitious launch plans (the Fiat dealer “studio” concept, etc.), they didn’t really build awareness in the general public. Now if you’ll excuse me, I have a cylinder head swap to do on my 500 Abarth.
What I don’t understand is that Fiat is bringing the 500e, which will definitely be a very niche vehicle, but not the 600e which is a crossover that Americans I bet would be more likely to buy.
Well, Fiat haven’t really “invented” anything, since they relaunched the cute retro 500 sixteen years ago, have they? Can’t think of anything right now.
But it sure was a great company in last century.
I had an old 124 Spider at one time. What a great and sexy ride!
And the spacy 70ies “computer” design on my parents’ Ritmo (Strada) still stands out.
And the super simple Panda!
And the out there 90ies Multipla!
So many courageous decisions over the years. Please come out of the Stellantis grayness soup and make some more of those.
Wow! That is as sad a statistic as there ever was and a one deep ass hole of which to dig out (grammar).
Have you heard? Jason split a hose. Have you donated to his Medical Expense Fund yet? Ambulances are not free and his health insurance isn’t going to pay for it.
Ambulances are an evil scam.
There is one FIAT dealer left in Las Vegas. Towbin (“The King of Cars”) FIAT/Alfa Romeo.
They have 27 new 500X models on the lot – including 2 2022 models with a $6000 discount. They have ZERO new Alfas in stock. They have 314 used cars on the lot. Yeah, it’s pretty much a used car lot, it seems.
I walked through their lot the other day, and they were very excited about their 0% financing on those 500Xs. But also hopeful that someone might come in to buy a new electric 500 sometime next year.
That is a tidy graph Lewin! 🙂
Though it’s cute for what it is, the 500X has generally been considered a poor choice in its class, at least according to everything I’ve read about it since it came out. How any buyers rationalize spending $30K+ for one in 2023 is beyond me.
FEWER.
Fiat sold FEWER than one car per dealership last quarter.
Grammar matters!
Eventually, every fiat becomes less than one car.
Is it over 1 per dealer if we gave them credit for the Renegades which are really Fiats? Isn’t the Cherokee also kinda a Fiat too?
Considering a large chunk of my heart is pinned to Fiat’s fortunes in the US, this just makes me want to burst into tears. And no, the 500E will not make it better. Just like last time, Fiat is intentionally discouraging US sales of that car
When I travel to Europe I’m enthralled by the diversity and oddity of the cars. I rent Vauxhalls, Citroens, Renaults or whatever I can’t own here. Back in the day I’d seek out Ford Ka’s for example. Parked in my driveway is an Abarth 500 which sparks joy in my heart every time I drive it: the formerly forbidden foreign fruit Americans used to pine for, like the Peugeot 205gti or more recently the VW Up GTi.
Obviously part of Fiat’s problem is fear about bringing other models to the American market only to see them tank. Fundamentally, the problem is Americans. We want automotive appliances or cars that denote status but not ones with character or joie de vivre. Never mind our perverse love of big trucks which is definitely not a Fiat priority. The new 500e should be a real banger, up there with forbidden fruit like the Honda e, that’s going to be a tiny niche, a Venn diagram with little overlap.
That said, I wonder if the Panda 4×4 would bomb here?
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2022-07-29/how-an-old-fiat-panda-4×4-made-it-from-italy-to-the-us?embedded-checkout=true
I’ve long thought the Panda 4×4 would sink like a stone as a Fiat (even before the brand reached its’ current nearly moribund state in the US market) but be a segment-defining hit as a Jeep.
Could be Jeep’s only captive import, a sort of modern Suzuki Samurai if they were willing to roll the dice on something unprecedented for their marque.
Nobody cares about enjoying the little things we must do every day or the little escapes almost anyone can find, they are only concerned with either survival or getting more as if happiness will only come from achieving goals society told them matters. By the time they realize they lived someone else’s life, they have to throw away what they built their whole lives for or bury themselves in it. When I was broke, I would sit with a mug of tea and enjoy that 15 minutes or so or drive out to a lighthouse park and watch the ocean. When it looked like I was going to die overseas, it was the little things I thought about that I missed—like eating cheap 3-for-2 pizzas from the pizza place down the street while watching wrestling with a friend (and I didn’t really care about wrestling). I bought a (cheap) sports car even though it’s a bit impractical because I have to drive a lot and I would rather enjoy that time than have it be another chore for the <1% of the time I could use more utility. Too many people travel all over the world as checkmark tourists, taking the same “required” selfies as everyone else before moving on to the next tourist pin, but when you ask them about their trip, so many have nothing to say (I have encountered this a shocking amount of times, which I find incredible) or they say the same thing everyone says about the place. They were there, but didn’t experience it. Alive, but not living. I had PTSD for about 30 years and these living-in-the-moment tricks were what kept me out of prison. Had it not been for that, I probably wouldn’t have figured this out myself. This is the stuff people should be taught, but of course, the economy requires consumption and they don’t want to teach anything that might disrupt it.
I quite appreciate this comment. In your life, you should do things that make you happy, not follow convention if you don’t want to. This is why I drive exclusively older very characterful vehicles and why I’m building a strange house that has 2400 sqft of garage and just 2100 sqft of living space. I don’t need to take care of a 3000+ sqft home that so many people see necessary today.
There is nothing like finding a nice off the beaten path spots to enjoy. My family every year goes to an out of the way coffee shop in Milton, PA for lunch on our trec to see my grandparents. It’s a lovely quiet spot with delectable food.
Exactly. I call that kind of thing “cheap luxuries”. Moderation goes with it, too. One of my favorite teas is a loose leaf white tea that’s expensive for tea, but still dirt cheap enough to be able to drink everyday. Even so, I try to save it for one day a week so I don’t take it for granted. I got that from my grandfather who was dumped out of an orphanage at 16 just in time for the Great Depression and a lot of hardships to follow. He lived to 103 and was healthy and pretty happy to 101 drinking scotch everyday, meat, and dessert with every meal, but it was all done in moderation. Also probably helped that he had been through too much shit for much to phase him at that point. What did get to him in the end, though, was outliving too many people. I know of no fix for that.
> I drive exclusively older very characterful vehicles
What kind?
I’ve got 4 vehicles that get daily use depending on time of year.
62 Austin Healey Sprite (Spring – Fall)
90 Jeep Comanche Eliminator (Spring – Fall)
99 BMW E36 M3 (Winter + Autocross)
09 Honda Civic Si (Winter + Autocross)
Also in my past I’ve had:
99 Oldsmobile Eighty Eight
02 BMW e39 M5
13 Mini Cooper S JCW
88 Jeep Comanche SporTruck
Goddamn, that’s depressing and real. Glad you seem to be doing OK.
I didn’t foresee my somewhat anodyne comment sparking such a thoughtful reply. At it’s core you’ve highlighted what I was trying to express, that we as a society don’t truly value the more intangible elements of … being alive. Sure some of us do, you for example. But there’s not enough of us here to keep an automotive marque alive that builds its identity around intangibles.
Re. trips abroad to obscure places, that literally all my wife and I do. I can’t imagine going to the Eiffel Tower for a selfie, that thought distresses me. We hit the road to see bands play, like the DEVO Devotional recently in Cleveland. Who goes to Cleveland? We do! Etc.
I’m glad you found equilibrium in your life, that’s what matters. Cheers!
I certainly don’t mean to downplay the value of travel, I just find it sad when people seem to do it because it’s a kind of status thing to take the lame selfie at the same spot as everyone: look at me, I was at the place doing the thing. When I went up in an old biplane, I almost forgot to take a picture from the air and only did because I knew my mother would have wanted to see them. When I went to Italy, we ended up on a bus with two recently divorced women from the Midwest. We got to talking and everything I asked if they’d seen or done, they had not, and any mention of history went over their heads, but they did spend $6k on booze. Could have done that at home, though I suppose the remoteness of the place means nobody they know saw them hitting on the bartenders half their age. I guess people enjoy different things, but they didn’t strike me as especially happy. I was just trying to make the point that there are places worth seeing everywhere—even Cleveland—if one just looks around!
I dunno, I just want a car that works
Apologies if I missed it here, or if it’s simply in the AN article, but I would be interested to know just how many Fiat dealerships there were at its peak.
Initially dealers were required had to have a lot of standalone items to carry the brand for the first few years, maybe 5 years. I don’t think you had to have standalone showrooms, perhaps a section of it (like Scion), but definitely a separate website. Added expense and time to maintain.
After that period there was a lot of dropoff as things got absorbed into the regular CDJR umbrella as it was clear it wasn’t going to work out as promised. Near me, a national dealer group put Fiat in an old Saturn showroom (perhaps an omen), added Alfa when that came around. By 2018 they moved them over to the Dodge building next door and made the space another preowned center, and shortly thereafter I guess sold Alfa to a different dealer group next door that had Maserati (which also seems like odd franchising for new/unknown brands).
I suppose at this point the cost is minimal to carry the brand or maybe even spiffed to take a few cars. I see some estimates that there are around 2400 Dodge dealers in the U.S., so that’s about 15% that also carry a Fiat franchise.
And the only reason these dealers still have it is the franchise is absolutely worthless. Can’t sell it, probably can’t give it away, only option is to give it back to the OEM.
They’re keeping the flag for service opportunities and the hope that some day the brand launches a model that captures peoples attention again. And at that point they’ll likely sell it before things slide backwards again.
I suspect a good number of them are primarily used-car operations that hang onto the new-car “shingle” in order to offer better financing to their core, used, customers along with the sense of being slightly upmarket from an unbranded BHPH lot.
Very few are standalone. They can accomplish that with their CJDR, Maserati, or Alfa franchises as well.
For having 359 dealerships across the country, I cannot tell you where a single one is. All the ones I did know about removed their signage, I don’t know if they’re still Fiat stores, but they certainly don’t advertise like they sell Fiats.
I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t at least curious about the new 500e. I think it looks good, and if it is priced right, and has enough for a daily commute with climate control, I think it’d make an excellent city/suburb car. Although I’m sure Fiat will somehow find a way to make an electric car unreliable.
Here’s a map of locations: https://www.scrapehero.com/location-reports/Fiat-USA/
Apparently Texas has the most, which … wow.
I think the Fiat dealership where I live is one of the six that doesn’t sell another brand on site. They stay afloat by primarily being a used car center for the larger auto group they’re apart of as well as through their service center.
With a Fiat 500 in our family, its sad to me that I believe the answer to the dilemma is clear. Rather than cancel models, update them. Update them the way they do internationally. The Euro model 500 had been getting consistent updates on top of expanded trim options that they didn’t bother with here.
Yeah they stopped with just the Abarth, we should’ve gotten all the different 595 & 695 trims to keep the interest on the brand even if it is just a few units.
F150 vs. the 500.
“Outside the U.S., Fiat made a banner start to 2023, chalking up 645,000 sales globally in the first half of the year. Those figures made it the best performing brand in the broader Stellantis group. It kicked goals across the globe…”
How can you show that America is different than the rest of the world without saying it?
The biggest difference is that the rest of the world actually has Fiat products to sell, not sure how much volume a single mediocre 10 year old crossover with zero marketing support can really be expected to move, regardless of market
I think your answer literally ignores the elephant in the room.
The Ford F150 has a curb weight of around 4800 pounds.
The Fiat 500 has a curb weight of around 2220 pounds
Americans prefer large vehicles.
In my area, seeing a Fiat, ANY Fiat, is like seeing a Unicorn. We do have a Fiat dealer, which is also sells the full range of Stellantis vehicles, but I just checked and they have 3 Fiat vehicles in stock. People in my area don’t really appreciate small cars, and if they need a cheap car, they buy a used larger car. Unfortunately, Fiat doesn’t really sell anything that sells in my area.
It boggles my mind, when reading article after article like this, that so many commenters will with complete seriousness argue that manufacturers are making a mistake discontinuing small and cheap cars.
Look at that sales chart! Fiat was going off a cliff *before* they discontinued the 500.
The problem with your reasoning, is that they think they are going to sell a 500 for $30K.
Nissan sold 2278 examples of the Versa in September of this year, for comparison.
If you are gonna play in the cheap car space, you have to actually, you know, price your product consistent with the finances of the target consumer.
Versa sales are barely 10% of what they were in 2014-16
https://www.goodcarbadcar.net/nissan-versa-sales-figures/
I think the Fed, and interest policies, might have more to do with that than the size of the car. Lower tier consumers are more sensitive to interest rates than more wealthy buyers, especially since they rarely get reasonable percentage rate loans.
I would, in fact, like to see Autopian do an article on that subject.
I would read that article too, but again, Versa sales first fell off a cliff between 2015-2019, when rates were very low.
I think that’s going to require a lot more of a deep dive but there was a ton of stuff going on internally at Nissan from 2017-present that would affect sales – namely, production cuts, reduced rental deliveries, model changes like the Note being shitcanned and the Kicks being introduced, and a massive amount of internal turmoil that affected the product mix available to dealers.
Hell the Rogue is also selling about half of what it did in 2018 and there’s no way you can argue against selling a car in the most popular category on the market.
Also the Versa is a massive piece of shit.
But it’s everything.
It’s not limited to Nissan, or Fiat, or anyone. Civics and Corollas are way down too.
The RAV4 is down about 70k from 2019 too. The Kia Forte has already hit its second best sales year ever – 114k so far this year and there’s still a month yet. The Chevy Equinox is absolutely dying in the marketplace if you just look at the numbers.
None of this is as simple as “nobody wants small cars.” Hell it’s not even as simple as “everyone wants CUVs or trucks.” I don’t think the past few years can give us any indication of where demand is, quite frankly – sales are all over the map and the supply chain remains a mess.
About all we DO know is that nobody wants any Jeep that isn’t a Wrangler and those are across the size spectrum, so that doesn’t tell you what people want either.
People want to look to single overarching factors but I do think it is more nuanced than people give it credit for.
Some want to say it’s lack of updates, but it can’t only be that. Ex: Chevy Cruze sales went down after they redesigned it while say, Civic sales increased. Sure the Civic was a very good car – but it isn’t merely about being the best car, because the Versa* and Mirage survived while the Fit didn’t.
And people into cars tend to follow very hard categorizations between segments and prices, which isn’t how the average buyer always thinks or shops. Especially with cheap cars.
*Speaking more historically here and while I wouldn’t say it’s the best choice of what we had out there, the current one is a nicer car than the old one. Not a dig at you specifically but a trend I’ve noticed in discussions on some of these cars – like people are quick to declare “car x is a POS” or “I would never buy one, people should really just buy a used car or walk” but then are shocked when it gets discontinued.
It being a massive piece of shit is relevant to potential sales declines.
– Nissan in general is down substantially. So people just aren’t on Nissan lots, and it’s not getting people there.
– It is easy to convince buyers to go to different models when your entry level is trash. “Oh I know Versa isn’t very good, but hey we can get you into this Kicks…” Or “we can get you into this used Altima or Rogue…”
But there’s a lot more going on at Nissan than one model selling worse than before.
It would be, but we know this isn’t the case as the previous gen Versa was a worse vehicle with plenty of articles on the subject at the time, yet sold substantially better even with more competitors in the space. It climbed in sales in the first 3 years of its 2nd generation, and then decreased after 2015 (144k in the US). Even as competitors were picked off. And even if we optimistically assume half those buyers were Notes, that doesn’t account for the full dropoff.
So the product is improved, there’s less competition, yet sales have decreased. But again, it’s more nuanced. Nissan sales have fluctuated particularly wildly. The Versa is up 91% through October YoY, but that’s also not an indicator that “small cars are back!” any more than the Armada being up 105% means big SUVs are back. Both have sold about the same amount of units – just under 18k.
Nissan was really going for fleet sales during late Ghosen era, and the Versa was definitely pitched hard towards the fleet market. What looks like sales absolutely cratering could also be the company de-emphasizing fleet sales and hunting for profitability.
In its first several years the 500 started as a sub-$20k car. Not cheap for its size, but it was about the same price as a segment up/compact car. That was normal at the time, in the early 2010s when there was renewed interest in small cars and everyone was bringing out nicer small cars. Fiat’s maybe not the greatest example because the products didn’t turn out to be all that great for the typical buyer, and Fiat could slash the price of the 500X by $10k to bring it under and it probably wouldn’t make a difference.
The cheapest MSRP doesn’t always equal the cheapest car for the budget buyers especially nowadays – it’s what you can approved on, and that’s where something like incentives come in. If you’re credit challenged or have negative equity (which we’ll surely see more of in coming years), extra cash back or more favorable financing goes a long way, and that tends to be more available as you go up in size segments.
The point about the financing part of the equation is really important here, thanks for pointing that out. I mean, there’s a reason GMAC was created, after all.
That’s the problem. Emissions, safety, NVH, durability testing, etc. cost a lot whether the car is going to be cheap or expensive, so cheap cars don’t cost much less to make than more expensive ones. When the OEMs cheap them down enough to sell for low prices, not enough people buy them because (historically) decent used cars were in that same price category or the next step up in price yields a substantially better new car with better resale for not much more money (better value/dollar). Because of this, the compact also sells in better volumes, so the OEM can make a higher quality car for the price with more standard features that might be optional on the subcompact, further leveling the purchase price delta. Additionally, since the compact is larger and better quality engineering can be incorporated into its spec due to the higher volumes and list price and price spread (the subcompact also has a lower ceiling for how high they can charge for a fully optioned spec—say an additional 25% over base price vs maybe 50%+ for the compact), the platform can also be designed to allow the building of more models off of it for a wider range of pricing. It can’t be downsized as that would cost too much to sell for cheaper, but it can be upsized for even more profit per unit, offered with different (more profitable) drivetrain combos, and so on (think FWD compact car vs AWD compact CUV for near double the price).
Another point against the subcompact car is CAFE. While the cheap car can be stuffed with a weedwhacker engine that gets fair mileage, it’s not going to be super impressive since the design needed to make the subcompact space efficient in the interior compromises the aerodynamics and the safety engineering makes the floor for weight fairly high (see Smart for an extreme example). Both work against the mileage by putting the engine under a heavier load more often and requiring shorter gearing, which means running higher rpm. The larger car has more room to allow a better shape for aero, but also more advanced drivetrains. Fitting a hybrid drivetrain into a subcompact without taking away too much interior space is significantly more difficult (expensive) than in a compact or the larger vehicles built on the compact platform, never mind the added cost of the hardware, which is something the larger, more profitable vehicles built on the larger platform can absorb or—because they are better quality—can be charged to the customer. Now, the bigger vehicles get better mileage than the subcompact with more space, power, better ride, interior quality, etc. and their higher sales volumes help even more with CAFE, more still if it’s a CUV version instead of a sedan. The problem is partly customer choice, partly the cost of building cars in a highly regulated environment with opposing goals that have to be satisfied (safety vs mileage).
While those are all reasonable arguments, I kinda disagree with the thesis on its face. I don’t think that meeting CAFE or all the other testing requirements are really the same for different car segments. The way that is paid for, is by dividing the certification expense by the units sold, giving you the expense per vehicle.
Since most small, economy cars are going for sales volume in numbers, not unit sales price, and since that style of vehicle isn’t modified substantially each year, the opportunity to more easily amortize the cost of certification, is higher for the small, large volume product.
Essentially, no one is really trying to service the lower end of the market. So people who need that pricepoint, are simply going used, or keeping their current ride alive.
Manufacturers need to adjust their product range to fit the market. The days of COVID19 causing everything to cost 20% too much are simply unsustainable.
Development costs are not going to be significantly different for mainstream, volume models. Production costs can be less for the cheaper car, but the floor is still rather high. If they had the sales volume, yes, that’s how it works to be profitable in that sector, but the problem is that they don’t sell in enough volumes for that, and they can’t be amortized as well because these cheap platforms can’t be used for the same wide range of models and price points as the compact platform can. The compact outsells the sub and that’s without factoring in the former platform’s use to sell several CUV versions and maybe even being stretched into the midsize category and its variants. Not updating frequently sounds like a money saver on paper, but isn’t a selling point to the customer who can sit in the better compact on the same lot and see and feel how much better quality and advanced the compact is for not much more money. For most people, cars are an emotional purchase even if it’s sometimes a head scratcher and they want to leave feeling good, not “eh, good enough, I guess” particularly when the price difference isn’t that great. Spend a lot of money to be unhappy or a little more to be satisfied?
Going used was the common alternative to subcompacts for the same reasons people would pick the new compact. With used prices as they have been the last couple of odd years, the few subs left actually did sell a lot better. Too bad a lot of OEMs had phased those out just before the market went nuts. But why would an established OEM bother with that segment? Even with some (small) profitability, cheapening out to get to the price point they need to be in and selling to people with little money is a recipe for poor brand perception, something they spend millions combating. Cheaping out is likely to lead to warranty issues and the budget customers buying them are going to be inconvenienced in a far more outsized way than the customer of a more expensive car who is more likely to put up with the annoyance in exchange for the much better experience and status (otherwise, German cars wouldn’t be here). The person with the problem bottom barrel car, being more inconvenienced will be more angry and will be far more likely to bad mouth the brand everywhere as well as never buy one again (I know I can’t be the only one who knows people who had a bad shitbox 50 years ago and still spits venom anytime the brand is mentioned—”I’ll never buy another damn Chevy! I bought a brand new Vega right out of high school and….”).
As a small car fan, even I don’t like subcompacts and the majority of people prefer larger cars in the first place—more versatility, they feel safer, they don’t feel like they rolled out of an aisle at the Dollar Store, they can get out of their own way and possibly without flooring it all the time (a lot of people seem very reluctant to full throttle a car), they’re more comfortable on long journeys, and they tend to hold their value better, which makes up some of the small price difference. Then there’s that a lot of people think they need AWD and a bunch of other BS the OEM can’t afford to put into a sub without pushing the price well into compact territory. Maybe the customers need that stuff, maybe they don’t, but it’s what they want to buy even if it’s a poor financial decision to do so. Most people get a new car—even non-car people—and they can’t wait to show it off, but they have to at least be somewhat proud of it first. Sure, some people like to show off how little they can spend and need, but they are too few in number and tend to keep their cars way too long to help the market.
We don’t agree. I think you are confusing what you would prefer with what people in that segment would prefer. And I certainly don’t agree with the premise that there’s no money to be made in the lower end of the market. The problems we are seeing are primarily just a lack of imagination.
The lack of imagination stems from the fact that the industry has car design down to a formula: what will maximize returns on the next quarterly report and how do we extract as much money as possible from the buyer while minimizing risk? Everything in modern cars is a function of this, which leaves no room for creativity.
It will eventually backfire, spectacularly, across the vast majority of the industry.
Agree. It’s like monoculture in farming. Eventually a change in the environment, will eliminate some prerequisite to that adaptation’s success, and those new features will require a new equilibrium state. Ecological modeling of capitalist organisms is pretty direct in its applicability here.
There’s a lot of creativity lurking within these companies, but the vast majority of this creative potential doesn’t get put to use. Had it been, even a half century ago, there are many problems caused by automobile use that would have been significantly mitigated, if not resolved. Some of the most revered and cherished cars to ever exist are the direct result of this creativity being unobstructed so that it can make itself used. Examples: The BMW M Coupe. The 1st gen Dodge Viper. The 1st gen Ford Mustang. The 1st gen VW Beetle. The W123 and W126 Mercedes. The Citroen DS. The Shelby Cobra. These were cars designed to the boundaries of automotive performance and design. Solving the problems caused by the automobile itself requires the same sort of creativity, AND the same sort of designer and car hobbyist enthusiasm that led to these revered designs being what they were being applied to these solutions so that they work effectively.
Instead, everyone copies what they know produces quick-term success, whose expected profits more often than not can be accurately estimated with a confidence interval. This methodology is especially favored by those organizations whom are least-threatened by risk taking due to their size and capital. Meanwhile, any small startup willing to do something different is generally left to rot at best, if not actively fought or crushed by the established firms and/or by that same regulatory burden that helps to protect established firms from competition.
Tesla was the lone exception of a long list of small startups to make it into the mass market U.S. automobile industry since the 1970s, because it got help from connected politicians who were invested in Tesla, when public sentiment at the time would have made said politicians look good for supporting Tesla. Otherwise, if not for that, we probably STILL wouldn’t have EVs on the mass market to this day. GM could have done in the 1990s what Tesla did in the 2010s, and it was a MUCH bigger risk for Tesla to even try after GM decided to give up on EVs back when all Tesla had was the Roadster prototype and nearly constant funding woes.
Now GM and others are trying to copy Tesla in effort not to fall behind when they could have been leaders all along. Note all of the tech fetishism and touch screens/computers controlling everything in modern vehicles. Tesla pioneered that obnoxious crap, which everyone is now doing! Is it any wonder why the market is so unpredictable and screwed up today in context of the industry as a whole being so fragile and dull in the face of even minor disruption?
Things are so dull and backwards today that we now have to look to the Chinese to find fresh new ideas within the automotive landscape that haven’t been yet been explored for the mass market, from a nation renown for its cheap knockoffs and outright theft of tech. China has the $14k BYD Seagull with a claimed 250 mile range for sale, as an example…
And, yet, the 500 is still the most successful model they’ve ever sold here
I keep decent tabs on the world of cars and honestly forgot Fiat was still in the US market.
same, I thought they pulled out and were planning a reintroduction with the new 500e.
They might as well not be, Stellantis probably just doesn’t want to pay the franchise termination penalties
LOL
Fix it Again, Tony
They need to sell the Strada here. Ram 700. Make it happen.
Yo
Its hard to sell anything when they don’t have any product to sell in the first place.
It’s wild how discontinuing models and not replacing them is leading to LOWER sales. Who could have seen this outcome?
Holy moly. Can you imagine being a salesman at a US FIAT dealership and going to work every day? It would be worse than the plight of the proverbial “Maytag Repair Man”.
I do have high hopes for the new 500 EV though. It’s not as cute as my 500e, but with more than double the range it might be an interesting proposition of the price is right.
In my area, the stand alone Fiat dealer closed…I think several years ago at this point. Only options left are tacked on to Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep dealers.
I’m actually shocked to see one of them has 5 Fiats on the lot. For scale, they also have 237 Jeeps, 292 Rams, 228 Dodges (which seems ridiculous), and 23 Chryslers.
“Less than one car per dealership”?
My guy, they sold less than one car per every two dealerships. WTF is going on with them?
I’m not 100% surprised. Buddy bought a gently used 124, loved it when it wasn’t drinking coolant. In two years he put 5,000 miles on it? Multiple water pumps and other repairs to “fix the problem” (under warranty) and it still drank fluid. The only thing we could figure out was that the block was porous enough to allow it to be consumed that way.
He sold it and bought an ND2 Miata
You sure it wasn’t a bad coolant cap? That coolant could have simply been boiling off.
It was under warranty, I would be very surprised if they didn’t replace the cap at least once.
Coolant loss is a somewhat common problem with those engines from what I remember, and the pump is usually supposed to be the culprit, but its been a while since I’ve looked into it so I might be wrong
Maybe the underpants gnomes are branching out…
I was fully on board to get several of the new 500e, but the new 500e has those stupid electric only door handles and I sincerely doubt they’d change those out for the US market.
However if they did swap them for mechanical door handles I’d buy several at the minimum.
FIAT has become a “one trick pony” here in the states.
Perhaps if they built some other crap that could pass our crash standards there would be hope. I really wonder if they even give a crap about the market here anymore.
And the current offerings are still not worth the asking price.
When FIAT was selling sustainable levels in 2012 they had the 500 and the 124, both appealing niche vehicles that sold ok and attracted attention to the brand.
Why not sell the New 500 here? There is little competition for an EV commuter car so they could do the Gen1 Leaf deal with cheap lease terms.
At any rate, it should be cheap enough to do that, that they should be able to get by even with low volumes, not like an EV has to worry about meeting EPA and CARB emissions
Of course, there is still that thorny non-tarriff trade barrier of FMVSS to worry about, the previous 500 needed some significant redesign of its front bumper structure to pass, not sure if the new one is designed to meet US standards out of the gate or not, if not, I can see Stellantis not wanting to spend a dime on modifications, because that’s how that company works
The 124 Spider wasn’t introduced until 2017. The previous 124 was done in 1985.
The 124 Spider between its MY 2016 introduction, to date, sold 15,807 units in the US, 1565 units in Canada, and 24,045 total units in Europe. Or 41,417 total units worldwide.
By comparison, the ND Miata since MY 2016 has sold over 61,500 units in the US alone. Add another 5313 from Canada, and 73,793 in Europe.