It’s hard not to feel something when you take a classic out for a drive. The comparative lightness, the relative simplicity, vintage styling, heartstring-tugs of nostalgia and the joy of the open road. However, the downside of driving is that you have to share the road with other drivers, and sometimes they try to occupy the same space as another car at the same time. While the safety cells and restraint systems of new cars are amazing feats of engineering, those driving old cars often aren’t so fortunate to benefit from these advancements, and German car-testing body Dekra just demonstrated how older cars can deform in concerning ways when put through a modern crash test.
The test subject for this laboratory-prepared crash is a Mark II Volkswagen Golf, built between 1983 and 1992. It’s the sort of cassette-era car that still enjoys huge popularity, both in stock form and as a platform for modifications like coilovers and wheels and even VR6 swaps. This thing’s great not just because it’s practical, but also because it just sort-of works. It’s almost always fuel injected and still quite comfortable and practical and just a slice of ’80s nostalgia you can use as a car. Volkswagen made 6.3 million of the things globally, a number high enough that German vehicle testing organization Dekra can probably get away with smashing one up for science.
The end of this Golf was simple but calculated, a 40 mph impact into a deformable barrier with 40 percent overlap — the same procedure as the Euro NCAP offset crash test up until 2020 and roughly the same setup as IIHS’s Moderate Overlap. While just about anything modern would be able to ace this test with an intact passenger cell, things aren’t so good for the inanimate occupants of this second-generation Golf.
Markus Egelhaaf, a Dekra expert in safety, stated that, “In the Golf II, occupants would have had little chance of surviving this head-on collision due to the collapse of the passenger compartment, the deep penetration of vehicle components into the passenger compartment, the deceleration and the impact on the steering wheel.” Indeed, A-pillars on this sort of car aren’t supposed to be vertical, and you can see the sill crumpled down beneath the door. As Phil Swift would say “that’s a lot of damage,” and it happened at the sort of speeds found on arterial roads every day.
Let’s compare those results to a newer Golf:
Of course, passive safety isn’t the only thing Dekra tested for. The firm also put Golfs old and new through a series of challenges, and the results seem both obvious and relatively trivial for people who like old cars. Braking distances for the Mk II Golf were found to be roughly 30 percent longer than on a new Golf, halogen headlamps are like candles compared to LED units, and the threshold of safe maximum speed in Dekra’s emergency lane change test was seven MPH slower on the old car compared to the new car, partially thanks to advancements like electronic stability control and partly because the new Golf has more sophisticated suspension than the old one and puts a lot more rubber on the road.
Still, if you drive an old car regularly, it’s best to take a leaf out of motorcylists’ defensive strategies and drive like everyone’s trying to kill you. Always try to have an escape route if you can, because it’s often far safer to bend two wheels on a curb than get hit by someone in a modern full-size pickup truck travelling at the speed limit. People aren’t replaceable,
Top graphic image: Dekra
Support our mission of championing car culture by becoming an Official Autopian Member.
I know my Geo’s a kleenex box on wheels but it’s part of the charm of the era. Of course one Sunday morning when I was almost hit head on by a drunk going 60 the other way I had a slight change of heart for a while.
There is a 1 in a million chance we would get in a wreck like shown from the crash test videos. I had 3 Geo Metros, loved, loved, loved them. I’ll take big windows you can see out of, 50 mpg, and my chances of being in a wreck like this. Hell, my odds are better winning the lottery than being crushed to death in a Geo! Is your Geo a Storm, Metro, or Prizm? Please keep that Geo alive! I loved mine. Oh, I also had a Teal Storm GSi hatch that got stolen, never to be recovered. Enjoy that Kleenex box on wheels my friend! If you do get crushed to death in it, it just means it was your time to go…..
It’s a Tracker! I was actually looking for a Metro convertible many years ago when I found it. Couldn’t pass it up! Here’s a pic of it on reddit.
How funny. I was watching an old episode of the supermarket sweep game show on the retro cannel and the award was 2 trackers. One in blue, one in teal. I wish they still made trucklets like this for sale new. I hope you enjoy yours and keep it going.
Screw them for using a 3 door though, could have done the same test with a Jetta or a 5 door gl.
Watching all the old crash test videos has put me off from buying pre-2k cars, unfortunately.
You’re going to die eventually anyways, drive what makes you happy in the meantime.
Why are the photos of the Derka Golf different colors? The lead photo has it in a sort of faded salmon pink, whereas most of the other photos in the article display it in an almost Barbiesque shade of pink. Not a big deal or anything, but seems like an unusual oversight, given the frankly-usually-stellar quality of such things around here.
But more to the point, I think about this ALL the time. As soon as I finish my coffee and comment, I’m off to an appointment down in Hollywood. I’ll be driving my 36-year-old Volvo, which I really do enjoy, but with the almost constant Damnation Alley that is modern urban motoring, I think about how much safer I’d be in the event of an accident if I were driving a new(er) car, even a smaller/cheaper one.
I’ve already posted the link to the 5th Gear video of a head-on collision between a huge, boxy, tank-like Volvo 940 wagon and a much smaller, somewhat newer Renault Modus: the Volvo lost that contest by a wide margin. My own Volvo wagon is decades older than that 940, and I never forget it.
I’ve been toying with the idea of just giving in and getting something ‘new’ which for me, means only about a decade old. One of Mazda’s crossovers… probably a CX-5, but I haven’t quite ruled out the less common CX-9. Frankly, I’d like to have a car with AEB (automated emergency braking) and if possible, a 360 degree camera system also. A bunch of airbags would be nice too, as would still-soft rubber bits in the suspension for a more compliant/composed/comfortable ride on pothole-ridden streets.
I’m thinking about it a lot…
I think the color/shade difference is from the different cameras (the high-speed video camera for the crash vs the other camera used for the after-crash still photos)
Yes, they were taken with different cameras and came from different sources… I just sort of expected/assumed there’d be some color correction applied so that the same car had the same color in different photos. I blame my OCD. 😉
As I was driving the 2CV down a wooded road last night in late, late twilight at “high speed” (for my 2CV, this means a little under 50mph) with the top down and a wonderful cool breeze, I was jolted back to reality by the realization that this road has plenty of deer. I don’t really want to declare a likely “winner” in a 50mph 2CV-vs-buck collision, but it ain’t likely me.
It’s definitely not you.
“halogen headlamps are like candles compared to LED units”
Well, the car owners can retrofit them with LED lamps in Europe. OSRAM and Philips have their own lines of LED lamps for the older vehicles as long as they appear on the Kraftfahrt-Bundamt (KBA) compatibility list along with the certificates to print out and tuck away in the glove compartment.
OSRAM recently released Nightbreaker LED Vintage bulbs that cast out yellowish colour temperature, matching the halogen bulbs, for the classic cars.
When my mum’s car (2009 VW Polo) was approved for both H1 and H7 LED bulbs last December, I bought them right away. The difference between halogen and LED bulbs is so huge that they are worth every cent and best investment.
As the former owner of a 2024 VW GTI, I can say the newer ones are very safe. I got rear ended by a Ford F-150 driven by a driver who wasn’t paying attention. I was stopped in bumper to bumper traffic. I did see him in the mirror, but I didn’t realize he wasn’t going to stop. He totaled my car, but the F-150 just had a bent front bumper. It pissed me off, but I only suffered shoulder pain and I have a 2025 GTI in the color I’ve always wanted. Knowing I’m safe is pretty important to me.
Glad you’re OK, and kudos on getting a car in the color you wanted. I aspire to that myself someday. 😉
I didn’t know Dekra did car safety testing. I was just there yesterday to get an emissions test so I could get a new sticker.
Yesterday I rode the bike to the butcher shop to buy some nice smokey salty bacon.
I could have stayed home, but no.
Maybe I should have called a delivery driver and purchased precooked turkey bacon with the app.
Risks, exposure, fun and food its all how you weigh things.
I tee-boned a much larger car (their fault) at ~35mph in a 1977 Rabbit (aka MK1 Golf). I was shaken, but walked away unhurt. The crumple zones worked and everything in front of the A pillar looked like an accordion.
This was the era when they were still figuring out the whole “passive safety” thing — instead of combination shoulder-lapbelts, it had shoulder belts attached to the door, a padded knee bar, and NO lapbelt. When you opened the car door, the seatbelt was in your way; you pushed against it and sat down. In the crash, the shoulder belt prevented my torso from going forward, and the knee bar prevented my hips from sliding forward. This design was quickly replaced with those motorized shoulder-belt things, that moved the shoulder belt into position once the door was closed.
No lapbelt must feel really weird, I’d think.
I had an Accord with motorized seatbelts, but they had both a shoulder belt and a lap belt. I was glad to get a new car with normal seatbelts…
Shirt, no pants
Also known as the Winnie the Pooh
When I was riding a motorcycle, my surviving philosophy was that to every other driver I was either invisible or a target. When that paranoia level inserted itself into my daily life was when I decided to stop riding motorocycles. Although I have seen this same thing happen when I was driving my Vanagon Westfalia.
Interesting but unsurprising.
I really wonder where the plateau is on slightly more modern old cars. Like is a 2005 golf still going to kill you? Can we get a crash study on each generation of Golf to see?
The 2005 golf isn’t going to kill you, this is the job of the 2025 truck coming full speed in your way…
The Mk.4, 5, 6, 7, and 8 Golfs have all been tested by EuroNCAP. They’ve had a 40mph into the deformable barrier until very recently, so the test has been pretty similar, but scoring has changed.
https://www.euroncap.com/en/results/vw/golf/15496
This is the Mk.4- you can see there’s a fair bit of deformation of the A-Pillar, but light years ahead of the Mk.2
A 2005 would be the Mk.5, which did very well in the EuroNCAP testing, for the time, and whilst it wouldn’t get a 5* rating today it is still a pretty safe car.
https://www.euroncap.com/en/ratings-rewards/latest-safety-ratings/en/results/vw/golf/15656
You can also add the increasing number of airbags every gen has, on top of the passive safety
My brother had a mk3 and as they were proceeding down the road, an idiot in a Range Rover turned across them, and ended up basically parked on their bonnet. The Golf was a write-off, but my brother and his wife were fine.
I’d still rather have a brand-new ’89 GTI 16V than a brand-new ’25 GTI, having owned a ’90 GLI 16V when it was a relatively new car.
Cars have long since jumped the shark in crash safety, IMHO. When the ability to see out of the thing plus light weight and nimbleness and thus not crash in the first place is a far distant second to massive structure, there is something wrong with the world. Pay attention and don’t crash the thing in the first place. If you do anyway, well, your number was up.
Thank you for that completely subjective vibe take despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary
It’s evidence I simply don’t give a shit about. I drive a *’74 Spitfire* all summer most years, and have for almost 30 years. An ’89 Golf is a modern S-Class in crash safety compared to that car, . Some people ride motorcycles – for those YOU are the crumple zone and a bit of sand on the road in the wrong place can make you have a very, very painful day. I’ve owned MKII VWs in period, they were safe enough for me back then, and I would feel perfectly safe in one today – and *I* am a far, far, safer driver today than I was 25 years ago. The driver is makes far more difference than the car does.
This is the most succinct take on this subject matter I’ve ever seen and I am going to steal it for my own usage, shamelessly and unapologetically.
Happy to help!
I’m 50 years old and have been in 3 car crashes in my life so far. None of them had anything to do with my car, my ability to control my car, or my ability to avoid crashing in the first place.
All of them involved other drivers who made mistakes or bad choices. I can tell myself I’m a great driver and can use my nimble, lightweight car to avoid crashing, but that idea gets run down by a 79 year old in a Dodge Dart who shouldn’t have been on the road in the first place. There are a lot or reasons to dig older cars, but safety is not one of them.
I’m older than you are. I drive a ’74 Spitfire all summer, and have for almost 30 years. I am in no illusions about old car safety, any more than those who ride motorcycles are – and my Spitfire is safer than ANY motorcycle. I just don’t particularly care.
I too have been in three fairly serious crashes, none my fault either. All in cars that some here would write off as “death traps”. Crashes that will kill or even seriously injure you are actually VERY rare events in the context of 3 trillion miles a year driven just in the US. And you CAN influence the likelihood that you will be in one by choosing how, when, and where you drive with some amount of care. You better believe I am paying attention like a mouse at a cat convention when I am driving my Spitfire. But I also don’t drive it in adverse weather, on roads with insane amounts of traffic, or during the witching hours.
Sounds like you have found a good balance of acknowledging the risks in driving an older, smaller vehicle and enjoying the fun of driving in said vehicle! ‘74- that’s the year I was born!
I like to think I do. I’m not a slow driver, slow does not equal safe either (and can be the opposite – the friend I will NOT ride with is so slow and hesitant he’s unsafe), but I like to think I am a damned careful one at this point in my life. Not perfect, but at least I care about the subject enough to try to always do better, unlike so many people. And I like to think I have learned from my mistakes over the years behind the wheel too.
I’m a ’69 – I was born before men walked on the moon. By two weeks. 😉
Learning from mistakes- that’s what it’s all about.
That’s what’s missing from these conversations—all this extra safety does not mean that the old car=death. The old car could very well save your life and I’ve heard people mention for decades that a certain car saved their lives in a crash, many of those built during “death-trap” times. And what is the biggest factor (literally and figuratively) that makes old cars that were once considered to be pretty safe seem so unsafe today? I’d say it’s the relative weight of all the new “safe” cars they’re up against and, worse, the complacency and lack of speed feedback effects of a vehicle so large and heavy and sound-insulated. Now combine that with distractions, often forced onto the driver through stupid design, like HVAC controls on a touch screen and these modern “safe” cars are merely escalatory solutions to a problem they’ve largely made. A new car also won’t invariably save someone in a particularly massive crash, though if you’re in the old car when you die, people will speculate, “maybe if they were in a new safe car…”, but who cares when you’re dead.
My GR86 is the same wheelbase and approximate weight of my ’90 Legacy wagon, which was also about 5″ narrower, yet fit 4×6 sheets in the back with the tailgate closed or seated 5 somewhat comfortably (theoretically, I don’t think I ever sat that many people in it). For its time, it was a safe car, and a 2nd generation LH Chrysler even incurred some fairly significant front end damage against its rear bumper without leaving a mark on the paint of the Legacy. I don’t think we should return to ’90 standards, but I think we’ve gone too far at this point and we’re adding weight and BS that’s detrimental not only for potential individual crash avoidance (my Legacy didn’t need a rear camera or side camera warnings, I could actually see out of the damn thing), but as a self-reinforcing fleet-wide problem. While there is no shortage of idiots, there is also no shortage of greed and I fully believe that these moving “safety” goalposts isn’t about safety anymore, it’s about selling fear and nothing sells better than fear to a population of wusses.
I *1,000,000,000%* agree with everything you wrote.
As I have said here many times, when it comes to safety, the shark has been well and truly jumped, and the lack of visibility in modern cars makes them LESS safe overall, IMHO. The best crash is the one you don’t have.
This is the correct thinking. You can be the best driver in the world, but you’re basically flying in formation with a bunch of randos, so it’s not always you that gets to control accident timing.
You can’t entirely control it, but you absolutely can strongly influence it if you are paying attention to what is going on around you. And at the end of the day, serious accidents are actually *extremely* rare events.
I wonder how the typical midwestern VW golf from that era would survive the test. I have a feeling the structural rust isn’t so structural.
Are there any daily driven ones left in the rust belt from that era? I cannot recall the last one I have seen.
I haven’t seen a MKII VW here in relatively rust-free FL in eons. I do know of one incredibly sun-baked Rabbit pickup still rattling around though.
In Europe the pickup/van version of the Golf is called the Caddy.
Puntastic 🙂
(They’re not based directly on a Golf anymore)
I know. Didn’t know that it wasn’t released in Europe until three years after the US though. Of course, Europeans don’t have that much use for pickups. Vans are nearly always better.
Even here in car-crazy, rust-free southern California, I almost never see Mark 1, 2, or 3 VWs on the road. The only place I see them is at car shows and Cars and Coffees. When I was a new driver over 40 years ago, such cars were ubiquitious… I owned a few myself. The reason I don’t own an early water-cooled VW anymore is that they’re just a royal PITA to maintain when you can start counting their age in decades. They have their charms, but after living with old ones for a while, those charms start to wear thin, at least to me.
While you may not survive this impact in a MK2 Golf, I’m here to testify on the roof strength, having survived a rollover in my first car, an ‘85 Golf. Somehow walked away without a scratch after flipping it on windy Skyline dr above my house. Learned some things the hard way
I t-boned another car in an ’88 Ford Escort at 60+ mph and walked away with a shoulder bruise from forcing the door of the VERY much shorter Ford open. These very much worst case crash tests just don’t scare me very much. Severe crashes are actually extremely rare events.
Two MK1 MR2’s and a ’90 Miata in my recent history. Now I have a 90 Celica GTS former race car. I always assume the lady in the SUV and the dude in the dude-bro truck did not see me.
wow! that guy really lost his head in the Mk2
Yeah, what a big dummy! Ha ha
Sure you might not die driving a modern VW, but if that’s what you’re driving, are you really living?
Hopefully a VW Golf w 6MT.
While I appreciate much of the safety improvements, how long will it be before: “You can live in perfect safety as long as you don’t leave this bubble,” and people sign up in droves?
My wife says “I’d die in an old Golf but wouldn’t be caught dead in a new one”. I love old VWs, but I think the actual good ones stopped at the MK4 (debateable I’m sure). I have a MK5/6, which has crossed the rubicon of old and good into new and crap, but it has airbags all over the place and is undoubtedly safer. But I really don’t care at this point. I don’t want to love in a bubble
I had a 2009 GTI for a while and now daily a 2014 Sportwagen TDI. I think they’re in a sweet spot. I love the MKIVs but my experiences with them involved a lot of repairs and interiors that fell apart, and the youngest of them are now 20+ years old. I like that my Sportwagen has a relatively basic cabin and a manual transmission, but also plenty of airbags and just enough creature comforts. I don’t need a million features in a screen, Bluetooth and heated seats are enough to keep me happy. It’s more reliable than the MKIVs I spent time working on as well. The MKV platform feels more light on its feet, but that’s subjective.
I have added some additional soundproofing recently and it’s made a big difference, my biggest complaint about my car is how much road noise you could hear.
Tell me more about this soundproofing. My 2011 JSW could use it.
https://a.co/d/6YmT5sL this is what I used! It comes in flat sheets that were super easy to cut and position.
I’m not finished yet, but I pulled out the spare tire and lined that whole area as well as the rest of the floor back there, and behind the plastic panel on the hatch. Under the back seat had no factory insulation either, so I did that too. I also put some under the hood, in addition to the factory liner. Next I want to pull the door panels and see if I can add some there. Same with the area behind carpeting around the wheel arches in the hatch area.
Nice! I just got my panoroof draining issues figured out, so I will definitely try that in the spare wheel tub. It was filling with water everytime it rained. I could definitely use some under the hood as well, the factory panel is coming down despite my best, most half-assed efforts. It’s a little louder in the engine bay with the new turbo and the DPF delete
I didn’t even have the under hood insulation until recently, the amount of noise reduction from that alone was surprising. As soon as my DPF system shows a single sign of going out I’m deleting it, should get me a bit more power out of my tune (Malone Stage 2).
I’ve loved it since. The engines are pretty much bulletproof once you get rid of all of that. Once I started seeing the signs (soot in the pipes, extra regens etc) I started making plans, and I would recommed you do the same. I’m at 160k right now, and plan to get to at least 250 if not 300, but I ended up having to pull all that stuff at around 115k. It’s different for all of us, depends on a lot of factors, but mostly how much you travel highway vs city. These systems weren’t designed for city use, and it just bogs them down and cruds them up, and you can get a dpf crack at 75k if you’re only driving city. If you want to buy more time, kinda treat it like you hate it, rod it our from time to time to help it burn off more crud. That’s what I did, and it gave me almost an extra year to get all the parts together for the delete. Zero regrets I have to say
I work from home so I don’t drive a lot, mine only has 69k on it right now. I have heard the system doesn’t like city driving and I do a fair bit of that. But I make sure to give it an Italian tune up several times a month so hopefully that helps the system hang in there a while longer, and it is our default road trip car so it gets highway time too. But no signs of impending failure so far! Like you I’m hoping to get 200k+ out of it, it’s paid for and I have no interest in buying anything newer. It’s basically the perfect car for me. I’ve already got some funds set aside for when the time comes though!
Right on. Find me on here when the time comes if you end up needing any help. I’ve put most of the miles on this one, and have been through pretty much all of the major problems already
I will certainly let you know, thanks! Mine has been pretty reliable, just your typical bullshit VW failures, like my rear center seat belt which locked itself and wouldn’t unlock, I ended up having to cut it just to fold my seats back up. Oh and had to have my instrument cluster sent off for repair because the back lights were failing.
Getting rid of the DPF also means you can use good synthetic diesel oil that would make your engine last forever, which you cannot use with the DPF on (like Signature Series from Amsoil, which doesn’t meet the VW spec because of the DPF).
My ’15 SW has almost 190k problem-free miles (on a Malone tune as well).
That’s good to know, thanks! I’m genuinely curious how long the DPF system holds up on my car, if it could last another year or two that would be ideal. On the other hand…you know, more power. Have you seen any increase in fuel economy as well?
Just reply to echo your comment about Mark 4 interiors: the degrading rubberized coating on the dash was the worst, ditto for the cheap nylon window regulator brackets, the soon-to-be-brittle glovebox hinges, etc… etc… etc…
It all felt good and almost Audiesque when new, but by the 10th year, it was all starting to go to crap with gusto. At 20 years old, an A4 VW becomes a permanent project car if you want to keep in in shape. I’ve owned a handful of VWs and now, I’m done with them… I’ll spend my money and time on something else.
My ex has a 2005 Passat that I kept going while we were together, and I just kept a supply of interior parts from junkyards for when shit inevitably broke. Like you said it was Audi-esque inside but if you don’t fix every little thing as it fails you end up with a mess of an interior.
Jeez, I wanted one of those B5 Passats so badly. The early ones, before chome was slapped on, were so nice. Plus you could get it with the hotter engine and all wheel drive (and, I think, a manual too). I never see them anymore, but they were such nice, clean-looking cars, especially in that Satin Silver VW offered back then.
But woe unto whomever actually owns one and has to keep repairing all the stuff that breaks on an almost weekly basis. I had an A4 Golf for 23 years, and towards the end, it was almost a full-time job keeping it intact.
I absolutely loved the one he has. It was his daily till last year and apparently in the eight years since we split it hasn’t had any major issues. Which he (rightly) credited to my efforts to keep it going. I loved the way it drove, even the 1.8t auto was a decent combo especially after a tune. You could configure those so many ways, you could have the 1.8t, VR6, at least one diesel, or the W8, with automatics or manuals, and with AWD if you desired. When we were together there was a plentiful supply of them in junkyards, but I rarely see them on the roads nowadays.
Surprisingly my ex, not a car guy at all, opted to keep his Passat after buying a Tiguan. Apparently he wants to fix up the Passat, which still runs but needs work.
Some people might like that, but aren’t they placing themselves into a bubble already anyway? I don’t think they’re waiting for anyone’s permission.
It’s not permission they’re waiting for, it’s a sarcastic hypothetical offer for absolute safety at the cost of will and joy.
To each their own?
Absolutely.
My ’17 GTI Sport was one of the overall very best cars I have ever owned, and I was an idiot for selling it to Carvana for what I paid for it. Bought in the depths of Dieselgate, sold at the peak of the pandemic madness.
Zero interest in the MKVIII though, shark well and truly jumped at this point. And I would take a brand new ’84 Jetta GLI or MKII GTI 16V over any of the more modern ones.
I’d love to have either an ‘87 16v GTI (teardrop wheels) or a ‘92 16v GTI (BBS’s). Perfect cars.
I always wanted a GTI, but ended up with three Jettas then a Golf TDI before I finally bought my ’17 Sport. I still think if you are a car enthusiast, the GTI is pretty much the perfect car to have if you can only have ONE car. They just do everything really well, even if they aren’t amazing at anything.
Those ’84 GLIs were made in Westmoreland, Pennsylvania. If you get one, wear earplugs despite the safety concern. Speaking from experience.
No they were not. Rabbits were made in Pennsylvania, and then SOME MKII Jettas and all MKII Golfs/GtIs were, but every MKI GLI was made in Der Vaterland. And it showed. There is no comparing the quality of a MKI Rabbit and a MKI Jetta. I put 350K on my ’84 GLI, owned it for about 15 years, through most of undergrad, all of law school, and beyond, before the tinworm finally got it. The engine and gearbox are still in my best friend’s garage. He and I actually passed the car back and forth for a long time after we got out of school.
Oh yes, they were not quiet cars with the close ratio 5spd – which since I usually drove a 220 mile round trip to school and back almost weekly in undergrad was why mine got the “4+E” double overdrive transmission from a Rabbit diesel slotted into it. The 1.8L had plenty of torque to pull those gears so it wasn’t really any slower, but it was WAY quieter turning less than 3K at 70mph instead of 4K+. Not as much fun though, and after law school the close ration box went back in once it became my second car.
I stand corrected Kevin. 🙂 I assumed that Mark 1 Jettas and Rabbits were both made on the same assembly line.
I thought I’d seen a lot of crash test videos but this is the first time I had seen a crash test dummy decapitated!
It really wasn’t until the 1990s when manufacturers finally wised up and started to build cars that were much more cost-effective to insure.
One of my sons was recently t-boned on the driver side in a Kia Rio… He walked away with no injuries. So yeah, this stuff really matters.
Even us gray aliens have to keep the fam safe.
Are they more cost effective to insure? Modern cars are massively more expensive to fix (there were no $1500 taillights in the ’80s), and badly injured humans are more expensive than dead ones in many cases. Crashes bad enough to severely injure you are a LOT more rare than crashes that break a taillight – which is a lot of the reason why insurance is getting MORE expensive, not less.
Yes they are. They save on medical treatment costs because the severity of injuries is typically less than comparable vehicles of decades past. Also, the safety systems such as ABS, traction control and more also lead to fewer collisions as the drivers are able to brake in shorter distances, and there are less rollovers, etc…
At the end of the day, its all a numbers game.
Exactly, people cost a lot more to repair than cars.
I would hazard an educated guess that it’s a wash at best. Plenty of studies have shown that ABS etc. DON’T lead to fewer accidents than in the past – though they can lessen the severity of them. People feel safer and drive less responsibly… Fewer serious injuries, but WAAAAY more spent on fixing the cars. A fender-bender that was a few hundred 20 years ago is $10K+ today when you prang a bumper and grill full of sensors and some fancy all singing and dancing headlights. And for every $200K hospital bill, there are probably a hundreds of those smaller claims. Insurance costs are UP, WAY UP, not down, which is what I would expect if they were saving tons of money by not having to spend as much fixing people.
Having gotten my professional start in the insurance industry, you better believe it’s a numbers game, and one the House always wins one way or another.
One of the main reasons I got rid of my 1980 VW rabbit was watching a crash test video. The car folded up like a cheap suit at 35mph and that was a non-rusty example. I figure if I am going to ride around in a deathtrap it should be better looking.
But…but…I thought old cars were safer because they don’t have plastic? Or something.
Also dont forget the “my friend who never wears a seat belt was in a bad accident and thrown clear and lived so SEAT BELTS SUCK” Corollary
The anti-seat belter thing was always a weird thing to me. Like if it is super old and only has lap belts yeah those are death traps and should just be removed (my dad did that on his 57 because if they were still in the car you legally have to buckle up). But yeah I have heard weird claims saying like of of your seat belt is on it can cause many more issues. So getting launched from your seat and possibly out the windshield is safer then staying in place? If you are worried it might not come undone in a crash and fire keep a blade in a close secure place that would most likely still be there in an event of a crash.
Or the best one I heard is that “oh I don’t need a seat belt on because I am only driving a short distance from my house” didn’t know that means you are just magically safe because you are near your home.
“didn’t know that means you are just magically safe because you are near your home”
You probably know this, but it’s just the opposite, in reality. 88% of vehicle accidents happen within 10 miles of the person’s home: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4375775/
Pure probability. Since everyone does more driving around their own home, they’re more likely to have a crash there.
You cant have a crash where you aren’t.
And people are less observant when driving in familiar areas.
They’ve recently converted a couple of intersections near my job to 4-way stops. They put up really big stop signs that have flashing LEDs. People still frequently blow through them, oblivious to the new signs. The locals know to look out for this, but out of area folk dont know this, thinking everyone will stop.
Reminds me of a certain intersection down the street from where I live. This particular intersection has a high accident rate with drivers blowing stop signs. Instead of installing traffic signals like they should’ve the city went the cheap route and converted it into a rotary. It reduced the accident rate but not by much.
Rotaries\roundabouts reduce the severity of accidents *greatly*, even if the rate doesn’t change. They generally force a slowdown and accidents generally happen at shallow angles rather than t-bones, which are particularly deadly. And they certainly increase traffic flow greatly compared to stop signs or traffic lights.
Plus they can be a lot of fun. A road near me has four in the course of a couple miles, light traffic, clear sightlines, and I know the “racing line” through every one of them. 🙂
Trust me,this is one particular intersection where it’s anything but fun. In fact,a T-bone accident occurred on the day I went to look at (my now home) at that intersection. Yours truly had to call 911 to report.And this was before the rotary was put in. After it was installed people still have difficulty with it. The first winter the rotary was in service I was nearly rear ended when someone got overconfident in their Mazda CX-5 and the driver swerved and ended up skeeballing past me,thru the rotary and did a 180 on the other side of the street. This is located in a residential neighborhood (thickly settled,25 mph restriction) with a gas station on the northwest corner,a cemetery on the northeast corner,housing on the southwest corner and clearing on the southeast. At the time I still had my 2003 Nissan Frontier. If he had rear ended me the Frontier’s chassis would’ve went right through the engine compartment and right through him! And this was in the wintertime with a couple inches of snow on the ground with trace ice underneath. He wasn’t driving appropriately to the weather conditions. He almost went into the gas station!
There are someplaces (especially in Massachusetts) where traffic circles/rotaries don’t cut it!
You can’t fix stupid. <shug>
It is well-proven that roundabouts reduce accidents and improve traffic flow, even if Massholes can’t figure them out – baffling, as they have been all over MA for 50 years or more (I’m from Maine, been driving in New England for 40 years, and working for a company based in MA for nearly 20). Those idiots would have been just as likely to wipeout at standard intersections.
Darwin finds a way sometimes.;)
Pure probability = reality. I’m just pointing out the obvious: that people who say that they don’t need a seatbelt because they aren’t going far are oblivious to reality (and probability).
I’m always amazed when people say “that’s just probability”, as if that invalidates the premise. To a certain extent, everything is probability.
98% of my trips to the toilet are in my home.
Unless you are retired or full WFH you need to work on that number! No reason not to be taking care of at least 50% of that while at work.
Respectfully disagree: home pooping for the win.
I bet fate could manage that somehow (having a crash where you aren’t). 😉
Yup exactly why I was saying that just because you are near you house doesn’t mean you are safe. I was to lazy to look up the stats but knew it was something near 90% of accidents happen right around where ever said person lives.
Life hack:
I’m gonna move 11 miles away and just keep the legally required coverage to save thousands and reduce my accident chance from 88% to 12%
Nice move, Influencer! I would like to subscribe to your channel.
😀
(I literally LOLed- thanks for the laugh)
IDK, if the car ‘folds up like a cheap suit’, maybe exiting the vehicle prematurely might have a better outcome in the end.
My Mom was a hold out on wearing seat belts….they cant tell me what to do! She also broke a few of her front teeth clipping a parked car in her 70 Maverick…maybe 25-30mph?
That was the original argument against belts and, at that time, it almost made sense with how unsafe cars were or, in racing, it was kind of a tossup between burning alive in the car like far too many drivers or cut in half like Alfonso de Portago or thrown clear and smashed against something solid like Bernd Rosemeyer.
That is so crazy to think of hitting something at that speed causing any bodily damage but that is thinking with modern cars with cars that old I can see it. I have been in a few accidents the worst was when I was a teenager in the laying down across the back seats of my dad’s think it was a 2005 s10 and we hit a deer at freeways speeds and my mom and dad were in the front and we all luckily walked away injury free could not imagine if we were in an 80s s10.
You are still better off staying in the car. My grandfather witnessed a crash firsthand in the 60’s where the passenger went through the windshield head-first into a tree. He described the result as what a melon dropped from a third story window looks like. He was an early convert to seat belts after that.
My grandmother refused to buckle up as a rule (though I would not start the car until she did when I was driving, and I am stubborn) until the state made it illegal to not wear a seat belt.
Old cars are more interesting, but new cars are better in almost every way.
The rear window of my ’77 F250 doubles as a headrest – that wouldn’t end well in a crash. Given how much of a death trap an ’89 Golf appears to be, I don’t even want to think of what would happen if I crashed my ’76 Beetle.
Nearly a decade ago I bought a ’85 Jetta 4-door diesel which I DD’d until some jerk ran a red light and plowed into it a couple years ago; I was fine and the Jetta was still driveable albeit with the rear right passenger door smashed in and the right rear wheel having massive amounts of negative camber, lol. I drove it while the insurance companies settled the case (& totalled the otherwise perfectly fine Jetta, ugh.) I was impressed with how well it actually held up, all things considered.
Upon first acquiring the Jetta one of my kids & I did a little research online and found that the MkII Jetta had a surprisingly good safety record for the era (so, yeah, relatively speaking!!) and that its statistics were actually on par with and in some cases better than the best cars in its class which included the Volvo 240 with at least one study showing a lower fatality rate for the Jetta than the 240…
And we found an old video compilation of crash safety test film footage for some Super Beetles and some MkI Jettas/Golfs where the Super Beetles actually fared better than the MkI VWs. (Of course the MkII VWs were better than either the SB or the MkI.) They also mentioned that the SB was somewhat better than the Beetle.
If your ’76 Beetle is a SB you’re good but if it’s a Beetle then take care!! And I’m a fine one to talk, as I have a 1969 VW bus though I did put the spare wheel on the front for a very slight modicum of crash safety, lol.
That’s quite a difference. I guess it’s good that the only two Volkswagens I’ve ever owned were from much earlier than 1989.