Electric mail vans just make sense, and a heavily electrified USPS fleet could save taxpayers billions over the lifespan of the vehicles. However, they’re also controversial, and the current administration wants to get rid of them ASAP. Turns out, that’s not happening — at least, not through the avenues the administration expected to use — thanks to the senate parliamentarian.
Speaking of challenges facing EVs, it might soon be illegal to hardwire in your own Level 2 charging station, and homeowners might turn to a workaround with some added risk. On the plus side, it turns out that EV battery packs are degrading slower than ever, a tidbit of good news in all of this. Oh, and the UAW’s in hot water for something new.
This issue of The Morning Dump is a bit late, and that’s on me. However, I hope you’re still able to grab a cup of something caffeinated, possibly even some lunch this late in the day, and peruse some bite-sized tidbits of automotive news.
The Plan To Scrap Electric Mail Vans Is On Ice For Now
The USPS currently has around 7,200 electric vehicles, some of which are Ford e-Transit cargo vans that anyone can buy, and some of which are electric variants of Oshkosh’s purpose-built Next-Generation Delivery Vehicle. Delivery by electric vehicle is a great concept with low running costs, but it seems the current administration wants to force USPS to ditch its electric mail vans. Why get rid of them? Well, it’s a $3 billion program and it has has faced delays, though it’s possible part of the rationale is ideologically driven. Via Reuters:
Senate Republicans argued scrapping EVs would “focus USPS on delivering mail and not achieving the environmental aims pushed by the Biden administration.”
Those who are dealing with procurement and use of these electric delivery vehicles don’t seem particularly happy about this movement, partly because hundreds of millions of dollars have already been spent on plug-in vans, partly because removing them would leave USPS with a serious shortfall, and partly because the electric mail vans actually seem modern and seem to work, as Reuters reports:
USPS warned on June 13 that scrapping the electric vehicles would cost it $1.5 billion, including $1 billion to replace its current fleet of EVs and $500 million in EV infrastructure rendered useless and “seriously cripple our ability to replace an aging and obsolete delivery fleet.”
Efforts to scrap the postal service’s electric vehicle fleet have been at least stalled for now thanks to the Parliamentarian of the Senate, a position that’s only existed since 1935, and has only even been filled by six people. Among other interpretative duties, the Parliamentarian decides whether a budget clause objected to under the Byrd Rule will require a supermajority to pass, or whether it can be approved by a simple majority. From Reuters:
Senate parliamentarian Elizabeth MacDonough, whose role is to ensure lawmakers follow proper legislative procedure, said a provision to force the sale could not be approved via a simple majority vote in the Republican-controlled chamber and will instead need a 60-vote supermajority, according to Democrats on the Senate Budget Committee.
Given the split of the Senate, it’s unlikely a 60-vote supermajority to make USPS scrap its EVs would be reached. However, it’s worth noting that the role of senate parliamentarian is largely an advisory one. The Vice President, being President of the Senate, can theoretically overrule the parliamentarian’s guidance, and the Senate majority leader can fire the parliamentarian. This certainly isn’t over, but this recent ruling seems to give electric vans the upper hand for now.
From a practical perspective, local mail delivery is just about the perfect application for an electric vehicle. We’re talking about a job with glacial average vehicle speeds, more stops than the door hardware section at Lowes, often relatively short routes, and a central depot to return to. It’s a good enough use case that private sector couriers like FedEx and UPS are giving electric mail vans a shot for city routes, so why not the United States Postal Service?
It May Soon Be Illegal To Install Your Own EV Charging Station
If you’re particularly handy around the house and want to install an EV charging station, you might want to do so soon. Motor Trend reports that under the recently approved 2026 edition of the National Electrical Code, new language means anyone wanting to have a hardwired charging station at home will soon have to pay a professional to install it, along with pulling permits and all that jazz. From Motor Trend:
The change stems from a new addition to the 2026 NEC that reads, “Permanently installed electric vehicle power transfer system equipment shall be installed by qualified persons.” As proposed and ratified, the 2026 NEC defines a qualified person in vague terms likely to be interpreted by states and code enforcement departments to mean a licensed electrician.
The problem with the proposed language is that making do-it-yourself installations illegal doesn’t necessarily stop homeowners from doing their own electrical work. It does guarantee, however, that any EV chargers put in by amateurs will be installed without the appropriate permit and the accompanying safety inspection.
Since the Motor Trend story went live, the National Fire Protection Association has ratified the clause, meaning that once the new code is adopted by individual states, residents of those states will need to hire a professional electrician to install a hardwired Level 2 charging setup at some.
However, there is likely a workaround here. Considering the wording pertains to “Permanently installed electric vehicle power transfer system equipment,” a homeowner installing a UL-listed, GCFI-equipped NEMA 14-50 socket, getting it checked over and okayed by an electrician, and then plugging a NEMA 14-50-compatible Level 2 charger into that socket should be legal, but that comes with extra risk.
In this Reddit thread discussing the issue, several users report issues with inexpensive 14-50 sockets, including one who wrote “I have first hand experience of melting a cheap 14-50 at least, so if this rule leads to more people doing that to avoid hardwiring it would reduce safety like the counter argument in the article states.”
Study Claims Most EV Battery Packs Should Outlast The Cars They’re In
One common concern the public has with EVs is how long the battery packs will actually last. By now, early modern EVs are more than a decade old, and for every Model S with crazy mileage on its original pack, there seems to be a story of a BMW i3 or Nissan Leaf with serious battery degradation. However, battery tech has done anything but stand still over the past ten years or so. Telematics firm Geotab recently released an updated edition of its EV battery health study involving data from 10,000 cars, and the report states that battery degradation has improved significantly.
When we analysed EV battery health in 2019, we found that EV batteries degraded, on average, at a rate of 2.3% per year. However, a new 2024 analysis reveals a significant improvement: EV batteries now degrade at an average of 1.8% per year. This improvement highlights ongoing advancements in battery technology and durability.
According to Geotab research, EV batteries could last 20 years or more if degradation continues at this improved rate. This is particularly encouraging for fleet operators under pressure to reduce CO2 emissions.
Sounds good, right? Well, mostly. There’s math to be done here, and the numbers tell a positive story with one caveat, so let’s start with the upside. The general threshold for degradation under most warranties is about 80 percent of a pack’s original capacity, and if newer packs lose an average of 1.8 percent of original usable capacity every year (it’s not linear, to be clear), that 80 percent capacity threshold won’t be hit until the average EV is 12 years old. That’s not bad considering the average light-duty vehicle on American roads is 12.6 years old according to S&P Global, and that’s average age, not median age. If I were to hazard a guess, the median age would likely trend lower because classics only make up a tiny portion of the fleet but can definitely skew averages.
However, there is a bit of a downside here, and that’s the potential for those in the hooptie end of the market to be somewhat left behind. See, extend the timeline out to 20 years, and the Geotab study suggests the average battery pack will have 64 percent of its original usable capacity by then. That would essentially result in a 36 percent haircut in range, something hybrid and purely combustion-powered cars don’t suffer from when they’re two decades old. Even among staff here, many of us daily drive cars that are around that age, so if that 1.8 percent-per-year loss of original capacity does prove to extrapolate out, hooptie EVs might have limited appeal compared to hooptie hybrids.
[Ed Note: I’m hopeful that this rate flattens out substantially over time, and that my 2021 BMW i3’s battery will last longer than 20 years. -DT].
Another UAW Scandal
Remember in 2023, when United Auto Workers went on strike for better deals that rolled back some of the cuts made during the Great Recession? Well, striking can be expensive, and the UAW pulled funds out of its investment portfolio to cover them. However, Reuters reports that the UAW didn’t re-invest according to policy following this re-allocation of funds for more than a year, and the union could’ve missed out on $80 million according to UAW board members because of this; from Reuters:
UAW investment policy calls for keeping about 30% of its money in stocks, 53% fixed income and 17% alternative investments, according to three union sources and the documents.
The board voted to liquidate about $340 million in stock investments in August 2023 to pay strike costs, according to a union document reviewed by Reuters. The wording of the vote stipulated that the money be reinvested according to union policy after the strike ended and the labor contracts were ratified, though it didn’t specify how quickly.
But almost none of its portfolio was invested in stocks during the year after the strike began in September 2023, according to the records reviewed by Reuters. The news agency was unable to establish why the stock investment wasn’t made.
In February 2025, union staff conducted an analysis that showed the union might have earned $80 million more if its portfolio had been invested according to union policy, according to a document viewed by Reuters.
This irregularity is now being investigated by the feds, and word of it comes at a trying time for the union. Not only has organization momentum weakened over the past year, including failing to organize Mercedes-Benz’s plant in Alabama, but there’s currently another scandal around a dispute between union president Shawn Fein and secretary-treasurer Margaret Mock. Organization often gets workers better pay and conditions, yet allegations like this don’t bolster confidence in the UAW because infighting affects both productivity and image.
What I’m Listening To While Writing TMD
“Y Control” by the Yeah Yeah Yeahs is just a great song, isn’t it? Twinkling guitars, driving drums, and some seriously great lyricism all add up to a timeless track. I mean, just think about the line “I wish I could buy back the woman you stole” for a second.
The Big Question:
Have you seen any electric mail vans out and about? What do you think of them?
Top graphic credit: USPS
School buses and mail/delivery trucks are the best uses of an EV. Amazon and Rivian figured out they could get by with a smaller battery due to not needing such a long range.
The hardwiring shit is already illegal in most places, and also it’s local authorities that ban it. Isn’t it just like any other 240V job? That already requires a permit or is already illegal.
Ev mail vehicles makes sense in certain situations. Urban delivery? Sure. Rural delivery? Forget it
Scrapping EVs in a situation where using them for the sake of using them is one thing. But scrapping them in a situation where the use case is clear and sensible is just stupid. Especially criticizing the program for being politically motivated while using politics as your excuse for eliminating it. That’s downright hypocritical, but that’s par for the course these days.
Senate Republicans argued scrapping EVs would “focus USPS on delivering mail and not achieving the environmental aims pushed by the Biden administration.”
How does scrapping EVs help USPS focus on mail delivery? Do the engineers and supply chain employees now put on a uniform and deliver mail?
This is why I can’t follow politics anymore. These people will say the most asinine things and people will just nod in agreement, not knowing what was actually said.
“focus USPS on
delivering mail andnot achieving the environmental aims pushed by the Biden administration.”That sentence is poorly worded. I imagine what they meant was “focus USPS on delivering mail instead of achieving…”. But they exposed the real agenda unintentionally.
Webster’s should use this as a textbook example of “cutting off your nose to spite your face”. I understand the GOP wants to roll back as many Biden era decisions as possible, but this particular example is so egregiously stupid I don’t have words. EV delivery vehicles for urban and suburban areas across the US is a logical decision that will save taxpayers money in the long run… something the GOP used to champion but has completely abandoned in the past year.
This Charger loophole seems very much just normal house update stuff. As soon as I read that you will need an electrician to do it, I thought, yea they should, but if you install a 220V outlet for your welder then just plug in that charger!
That is what I did when I moved into my house over 10 years ago before I had the concern of EV charging. Even then, I paid an electrician to run the larger gauge wiring from my main box to the other side of my garage to the outlet. It has come in handy for the few days I got to drive an EV last year, got that level 2 charging goodness.
All the power to people who are competent and can safely install a 220V outlet in their garage, but the amount of current and voltage for these things is not for the, lets say, non-detail oriented out there. Pay an electrician for this, above most other jobs around the house, this one will just straight kill you if you do it wrong.
I had an electrician put in a 220V outlet, which melted after about 3 years of weekly use.
I then had another electrician who happened to be working across the street wire up the replacement outlet I already had waiting to go in. Timing wise it mostly worked out lol, but the burning smell and thin layer of smoke in the garage took some finding.
Oh the car kept charging like nothing was wrong, so at first I had no idea what was up.
No USPS EVs yet, but though there are a lot of Amazon Rivians, it’s still a mix with ICE. Oddly, I see the EVs on the highways mostly with ICE doing local deliveries.
In other news I got to experience a Cayman GT4 RS this weekend! I was out for a walk, saw one, and gave the driver a thumbs up. They wound up turning around and pulling up next to me, and lo and behold it was a guy I wrestled with in high school. He told me to hop, so naturally I did!
He talked to my about his Porsche experiences so far, we caught up a bit, and I told him a GT4 RS was my dream car. He really uncorked it a few times and the sound of that flat 6 is an absolute symphony for the senses and you can feel its might through the chassis of the car.
I half sarcastically asked him if he’d let me drive it a little, and for god knows what reason he said yes. I only got maybe 5 minutes behind the wheel but it was everything I ever wanted and more. I’ve never experienced a car that feels more mechanically connected to the driver in my life. The brakes are absurd, the steering is telepathic, and believe it or not it’s shockingly civil at low speeds.
It really doesn’t show its true colors until you’re in the top third of the rev range, at which point it becomes a literal race car. Anyway, they say never meet your heroes but this was a hero that lived up to my expectations and then some. It turns out he goes to the same track I do, and we exchanged updated phone numbers. There’s a decent chance I get a shot to experience driving it as god intended, and if that happens of course I’ll share every single detail here 🙂
Oh man.. I’ve never been a big Porsche person, but driving a co-worker’s Cayman GT4 a few years ago kind of converted me. Sure, the numbers aren’t the most impressive but they just got all the details right. The steering response is within a hair as good as an Elise, but in a far more practical overall vehicle. And the clutch and shifter are basically perfect.
Trump plan: keep on using the LLVs (with Iron Puke) for eternity. Problem avoided!
Well… they may just (barely) run into eterinity. Giving heat stroke and CO poisoning as they go.
Trump plan:
keep on using the LLVs (with Iron Puke) for eternityDon’t care if the poors get their mail. Problem avoided!“I wish I could buy back the woman you stole” is one of my all time favorite lines.
No change:
Cost: $3 billion
Savings by 2030: $5 billion
Change:
Cost: How much of $3 billion? Half?
Wait: plus $1.5 billion
Total cost: $3 billion?
So, we make change to lose $5 billion over time. Sounds like a great business decision.
Nope, all LLVs in my town. My friend is a mechanic for USPS and said the LLVs are held together on thoughts and prayers, with a steady stream of breakdowns every single day. They are only allowed to use the absolute cheapest parts they can source, and drivers will beat on the trucks mercilessly.
I date a letter carrier. Early on, I kind of nerded out about LLVs and electrification and she just shrugged and said she rocks a Promaster. I can’t wait to see one of these goofy electric ducks in town, but I’ve not seen one yet.
Saw my first one yesterday. My kids absolutely loved it.
I think the EV mail truck situation is more a victim of the USPS organizational inefficiency and Oshkosh being far behind schedule than any facts on the cars themselves, regardless of the fuel source.
Oshkosh has only delivered 93 out of the 3000 they were supposed to have delivered by now, and the fact that the USPS wrote its EV vehicle requirement specifications such that no OEM high-volume EV could meet those requirements all compound the issue.
I agree EVs make total sense for typical in-town mail routes, I just think they should have drafted their requirements such that a broader selection of off-the-shelf vehicles could have competed.
Yup. You nailed it. Off-the-shelf small electric mail van for the win. Buy a few bigger vans for the few routes who need the volume.
Yeah, and leave options for gas/hybrid/etc too for rural routes where that makes sense. It doesn’t have to be one size fits all.
They were very concerned with visibility when sensors and cameras exist to take up that slack.
My local route just replaced LLV’s with Metrix’es. Good on the carriers. My route could easily be serviced by EV – exurban subdivision 2 miles from PO.
Seen a few Rivian Amazon trucks in my small town but no new USPS trucks, gas or EV. Interestingly, USPS seems to primarily use Metris vans for package and regular mail in my area. I rarely see LLVs.
As for the EV charger regs, well, this is the way of things. Regulation is always a trade-off between more safety (maybe) and more cost (definitely). This probably won’t affect adoption much since individual homeowners who bought an EV in the first place can probably pay an electrician to install it. They might even have a car company pay for it if the EV is new. Larger installations were already being done by professionals.
Also, there are lots of claims that EVs have lower running costs over time. That’s not been proven in the general case, but I’m open to the idea that it’s true for USPS since their usage patterns are so different.
I’m an amatuer electrican, most other trades too. I’ll pull and wire 110 Romex. I’ll open the do not open box on the 220V hot tub. I’m not wiring in a car charger without concern.
It actually looks pretty simple. Technology Connections on youtube has some great videos on it and his latest digs into how you don’t need a massive charger for most people: https://youtu.be/W96a8svXo14?si=3rVqB-9NGAOrTfDK
I’ve not seen one in (my part of) the Boston area. Still ye olde Grumman LLVs.
The Rivian-built Amazon vans started about… 4-5 years ago though. It’s uncommon to NOT see one of those at this point. If it is, it’s a 20-foot box truck.
All the mail trucks in my neighborhood have recently become all MB Metris vans with the stupid eagle logo, replacing the MB logo, to keep the stupid from bitching.
“though it’s possible part of the rationale is ideologically driven.”
Lol, yeah… “it’s possible”
No electric mail vans where I’m at yet but like other commenters have said I’ve seen a few of the Amazon Rivians running about. Still mostly LLV’s along with a handful of Metris’s and Ram Promasters making up the majority of the rest of the local fleet.
If you live in the road salt rust belt and an EV makes it to 20 years and still has 64% capacity and given the price of a 20 year old used EV, I call that a win.
Also A few years ago, we were getting out house resided, roofed and new exterior lights so while I had the electrician at my house for the day anyway I had him toss a NEMA 14-50 outlet in my garage by the door. I was just charged for parts as he was already doing work on that wall anyway. So when I get an EV I hope I will be ready.
Given that the road to hell is paved with overconfidence (usually cheap male DIY overconfidence) I am ok with new codes to specify professional installation. Idiots do not need another way to burn down their homes.
Not all NEMA 14-50 outlets are built the same, regular ones can easily melt from BEV charging. Definitely worth consulting with an electrician who knows BEV stuff before hand
I’m trying to think of a good reason to hardwire a residential EV charger, and I can’t come up with one. Two of the most common 220VAC residential appliances, stove and clothes dryer are *always* plugged into outlets, the main purpose of which is to make it simple to replace or upgrade those appliances. And you’d think you would want to make it just as simple to replace or upgrade your EV charger.
I do know that most garage heaters are designed to be hardwired. I am not sure I would want a hard wired EV charger other than the garage tends to have larger humidity and temperature swings so would hard wired be better? VERY good question on your part.
I tried to convince my friend of this plus mentioned that he could use the outlet for a welder, compressor, etc. when working on projects, but in the end the wife won with the irrefutable argument of “It looks better”… 🙁
That is why I had the 220V outlet put already and we are not even EV shopping yet.
The reason in this case is that most NEMA 14-50 outlets you can easily buy aren’t designed to handle pulling near max amperage for hours at a time in potentially non-climate controlled space. Dryers and stoves certainly don’t.
There are some on the market that handle it better, but maybe now we’ll see ones that are specifically designed for EV chargers. Hardwiring in this case is a reaction to the lack of available, safe options.
EV chargers use NEMA 14-50 connectors because that’s what residential electricians are familiar with, but it’s not a great connector. When I install an EV outlet, it will be a 60A pin-and-sleeve connector that meets IEC 60309-2
https://leviton.com/products/360r6wlev
Looks great! Can you buy EV chargers that have a plug for that outlet?
Yes, you can swap out the power lead for anything, at least on my Chargepoint you could.
Ideally you’re only pulling 80% of the maximum rating of the outlet. I’ve been charging my EV at no more than 30A via a NEMA 14-50 for over 5 years now. I didn’t buy the receptacle at Amazon though.
Mine is a plug in on purpose so I could also plug in a welder if I wanted. I had an electrician put a new subpanel and the outlet in. I could have done it, but I didn’t want to install the subpanel. I could, but it’s one of those items to leave to the pros. He tossed the outlet in for a small extra charge, so I went for it. Saved me the time.
That said, I can’t imagine having hardwired it. I can still hardwire if I wanted, since the wire is there, but… why? I could see if with high charge rate cars, which is most of them. But, in reality, level 2 charges 15-30 miles per hour. For most people, that’s enough to fill a battery overnight, which is all that matters. So, just plug it in.
NEMA 14-50 outlets can’t deliver as much power as hard wiring, and said outlets are not built to be plugged in an unplugged regularly and so they wear out fairly quick.
Technology Connection uploaded a good video on the subject 8 days ago on youtube.
I hardwired my level 2. It’s rated for more amps and the charger is more efficient than plug in – I get to keep more of my electrons. And we’re going to be here for a long time. I self installed – rate your own ability, I’ve installed electric stoves and dryers to code so a charger is no different in size.
I hardwired at my first house, but then after two warranty replacements of the chargepoint charger (I did the changeout myself), at my next house I had them install a 14-50. I don’t need the fastest charging, and having had two or three more replacements (I can’t recall how many its been), it is definitely much easier than hard-wired.
Because some EVSE are rated for more than the 14-50 receptacle or any other standard NEMA receptacle are good for. Also, because any new outlet will need to be GFCI protected, per code, which can interfere and cause nuisance faults with the built in GFCI included in most or all available EVSE.
“I’m trying to think of a good reason to hardwire a residential EV charger”
Electric code. NEMA 14-50 outlet can handle 50 amps maximum, but for continuous loads like charging it is limited to 80% or 40 amps. Ford and GM have optional 80 amp chargers (requires 100 amp breaker and wire), so with a hardwired charger and the right vehicle you can literally charge twice as fast.
You realize there are other connectors available, right? I posted a 60A pin-and-sleeve above, and that connector style is also available in a 100A version. Once you get much past 100A of single-phase 220, you’re probably pushing against the limits of the common 200A residential service when you figure for everything else in a house.
At that point it also becomes a matter of cost and effort. I could buy a new pigtail or plug for the charger and install that, plus the wire from the garage subpanel to the outlet, plus buy and install the box, outlet, and cover plate. Or I could just run a wire from subpanel to charger.
The real reason to get the 80 amp charger is because it is required for the automatic home backup. This also requires an automatic transfer switch to disconnect the main and prevent back-feeding the grid. Maybe it is best to stick with 40 amp plugs as the most allowed to install yourself as more and more charging boxes gain two way capability for V2H. The possible situation where an improperly installed charger kills a line worker would be terrible.
Hardwired chargers can run at a higher amperage depending on wire size. A charger plugged into a standard 220 outlet should be set to pull a max of 40 amps.
You’re right, because the “standard outlet” is a wrong choice for a standard. The NEMA 14-50 is only the “standard outlet” because that’s what residential electricians are comfortable with. They need to get with the times.
The politics attached to EV’s are so goddamn frustrating, from BOTH sides. “EV’S ARE EVIL AND SIMPLY DO NOT FUNCTION” to “YOU WILL DRIVE AN EV BY NEXT YEAR AND WON’T HAVE A CHOICE”. Fuck off! EV’s are a great choice for many urban mail routes, and a shitty one for many rural ones. Let the office decide what works best for them. I daily drive an EV, but also own a 454 powered big block pick up truck. I love both for their particular uses.
As a followup to my original ramblings; and to answer the question that was asked. For mail, I live in a really weird mix of somewat urban to extremely rural. Mail trucks are still almost entirely LLV’s in town, and the most hilarious mix of weird JDM vans, wagons, etc for the rural routes. Amazon trucks are nearly split 50/50 with gasser Transits and EV rivians. Actual “Amazon” trucks only service the eastern half of my county though.
This both-sides shit is tired. Point to one single law/official statement anywhere in the US that said people will need to drive an EV by XX year. Just to save you some time, there aren’t any. Even the strictest mandates/laws focused on ending the sale of new ICE vehicles – none of them mandated that you get rid of your current vehicle and replace it with an EV.
Thank you. You are so correct the both sides thing will kill us all. Just because there are 2 sides do not make them both equal or both right or wrong on all issues.
I agree with you, but putting your head in the sand and saying “that other side is the wronger side” certainly doesn’t win hearts and minds.
Depending on what issues you’re talking about, there is no winning over the mindless and heartless.
I don’t know if considering somebody with different ideas than your own as heartless and mindless is a good first step…
It isn’t a first step, it’s revealed by their actions and words, often even reveling in their mindless and heartlessness. I’m not talking about EV vs ICE preferences or two parties having a dispute over who makes the best bagels, I’m referring to the walking malignant personality disorders with souls like black holes that seek only to destroy whatever their personal gravity can reach. Terrorists/fascists/bullies/some-even-more-milquetoast-term do not compromise and see attempts at such as weakness tantamount to approval to take everything they want (at least, when they get that—because it so often works—they turn on each other). Giving them voice gives them legitimacy that they will take advantage of like the spread of a novel viral infection. Not every issue has a valid “other side” and thinking so is one reason why we keep allowing situations to get to the point where we end up in otherwise avoidable wars. The common retort, then, by insincere masturbatory intellectuals will be, that my opinion is the same as that of the monsters from their perspective (exactly what the monsters, sniggering, expect because they’ve played this game time and time again), when only one clearly seeks strict control and dominance over everyone else and peddles almost exclusively in lies and misdirection where the other side does not to any appreciably similar degree. Of course, those in power who allow it to happen seldom have to take part in the subsequent fighting resulting from their failures in both intellect and courage.
Given the actions of Trump and his followers pretending they have either empathy or intelligence won’t get you anywhere.
If the different ideas involve taking away peoples rights and purposely sabotaging the environment – then f’km.
People who lack empathy for others don’t deserve mine.
Young flat earth creationist anti-vaxxers nazi KKK members are going to be a struggle.
Yeah of course they are, but somebody who doesn’t necessarily trust a new technology like electric vehicles doesn’t necessarily fit into that criteria?
If they are willing to side with anti-vaxxers nazi KKK members they aren’t worth the trouble.
I thought my hyperbole was pretty clear, but really forcing an end to the sale of ICE vehicles is essentially taking that choice away. My state has a similar “mandate” to stop the sale of gasoline powered vehicles by 2035. People do NOT like having choices taken away from them, It’s stupid legislation and absolutely does not promote the adoption of EV’s. Do you know what does? Incentives. I bought an EV partially because of environmental reasons, but mostly because our cost of electricity is so low, I got a big fat tax credit at point of sale, and I didn’t have to pay sales tax. I went from dailying a car that got 22 mpg to making my 50 mile commute every without burning a gallon of gasoline.
There is a difference between these two voices:
“EV’S ARE EVIL AND SIMPLY DO NOT FUNCTION”
and
“YOU WILL DRIVE AN EV BY NEXT YEAR AND WON’T HAVE A CHOICE”
One voice is just being mean, while the other is offering a ridiculous incentive that is very possible to change at some point in the future as the deadline approaches (and most of the world that could have bought EV, did) while there will still remain a need for ICE.
I agree with your point that each location should be able to choose with their specific needs, as should the rest of us. But for now, let’s see how many people we can convert along the way (by means of “incentive”/”mandate”/force). Resistance is expected with change.
EDIT:
my point is we can loosen the rules as the deadline approaches, which I expect to happen, and also somewhat hope will happen, as it makes sense.
Sure, I expect resistance to change, and some will absolutely dig their heels and and refuse any modicum of change, but there is a world of difference between “incentive” and “mandate”. I also don’t like the idea of making legislation that can “be modified as the date draws close”. That’s just shitty lawmaking. People are very motivated by what works best for them financially, or just out of convenience. I’ve convinced several colleagues to consider EV’s or hybrids at least, when I point out just how much money I’ve saved, and the pretty solid track record that a lot of these cars have.
This may be news to you, but vehicles wear out, break down irreparably, get damaged in crashes, get stolen, etc.
Preventing me from buying a new ICE vehicle is the same thing as “you will need to drive an EV” just on a potentially longer time scale.
The average age of a car in the US as of last year was over 12 years. So let’s take the “worst case” scenario of new ICE vehicles being banned in 2030. In that case, you’ll be well into the 2040s before you start to see your ability to buy an ICE meaningfully effected.
This is nonsensical.
My car could be wrecked on January 1, 2030 in your scenario and I’m without recourse if I want a new vehicle.
An average is meaningless in the individual case.
Lololol – do you get angry that you can’t buy new models of vehicles that are no longer made? Do you wake up in a rage every morning because you can’t buy a brand new PS4? Grrrr – why can’t I buy all the latest movies on VHS?! Time marches on, dude.
Did any governments regulate PS4s out of existence? How about VHS?
Oh wait, those were surpassed by new technology that provided enough advantages that people were willing to pay the premium for them.
GTFO of here acting like BEV vehicles are anywhere close to comparable.
The government hasn’t regulated ICE vehicles out of existence either. And are you sure you want to argue on “new technology that provided enough advantages that people were willing to pay the premium for them”? Did you really choose the one area where, pound for pound, EVs absolute destroy ICE? On a level playing field, it’s not even a contest.
Except everything eventually turns to dust in the wind. You could buy a brand new ICE car the day before the ban, get it totaled in an accident the day of the ban, and now you’re SOL.
For most people it would mean that eventually they wouldn’t be able to get the parts necessary to keep it running and passing emissions.
Mandates are almost always shit. I love BEV drivetrains, but it took me years and settling for shit I didn’t want in a car in order to get a New BEV, and said shit I didn’t want was completely unrelated to the drivetrain.
You ever notice how much technophilic bullshit is stuffed into your average BEV compared to your average ICE car? Electric door handles (if you’re even lucky enough to get external door handles), capacitive controls for necessary functions, electric fold down seats, electric frunk/trunk/charging port/glovebox latches, etc.
Mandates minimize competition. If we didn’t have the chicken tax and the footprint rule domestic automakers who make Trucks would go bankrupt if they didn’t make a competitive smaller pickup, but because of mandates our pickups have to be these expensive and massive pieces of shit.
I’m glad I bought a 25 Nissan Leaf S over the 24 Wrangler Sport 2 door V6 6MT I was looking at prior, but the Wrangler has the better interior, better ground clearance, better durability (besides the engine and transmission), etc.
I doubt I’ll buy another ICE vehicle again unless it is to convert it to a BEV, but with the way BEVs are going and the high likelihood of future mandates I very well may not buy another new BEV again, for reasons completely unrelated to the drivetrain.
Ngl, going with Oshkosh to mass produce a new BEV cargo van a single fleet customer when they have basically no BEV experience whatsoever, along with making the chassis also work with a hybrid drivetrain, for a ton of money, doesn’t sound like the best call. It wouldn’t surprise me if the contract has a clause banning USPS mechanics from doing anything but basic maintenance on the Vans like a ton of Defense Contractors do on their military products.
Who would have thought the most powerful military in the world would get cucked by paperwork?
And this it, there is no bigger selling point to EV USPS vehicles than the public data that will eventually prove they are the best solution. All that sweet sweet maintenance and charging data. It’s gonna be awesome. At least there are some vehicles out there for which we will get some data from.
Nothing wrong with BEVs, but I think they’d be better off with a COTS product, the new electric Ram Promaster delivery variant seems like a good option.
Check out the data on the USPS mail van here: https://www.greatbusinessschools.org/usps-long-life-vehicle/
I do think that all mail trucks should be hybrid at minimum. Many rural routes do need some gas, but since by definition there’s a lot of stop and start, not having it as a hybrid is basically lighting money on fire.
I could go with that, the stop/start life on a mail truck, even on rural routes is pretty silly to do on ICE alone.
Yeah an Iron Duke equipped LLV gets something like 10 mpg on average per USPS actual records. Same powertrain in a 2wd S10 pickup was probably rated in the mid 20s on the EPA city cycle which simulates commuter driving.
I know, it’s nuts! Iron dukes DO get pretty good mileage, but absolutely nothing will get mileage in those conditions.
The EV mail van fighting is infuriating, because nobody seems to want to look at the facts and financials. I think it’s far from a stretch to say that LLVs are a horrible answer to the task at hand given how old and broken they all seem to be, repurposed Minivans and Sprinter can get the job done to a certain extent, but clearly are not the most cost efficient, and it’s clear that EV vans may not work for every single route in the country, but there must be a threshold where they will pay for themselves.
I don’t want to make too many assumptions here, but you’ve got to figure that the cost from here on out to produce and roll out EV mail carriers is not too much more than what it would cost to replace every LLV with a repurposed ICE vehicle of some sort, given the EV carrier development seems very advanced. Meaning even if we completely avoid sunk-cost fallacy, the marginal (or even significant) up front cost delta will SURELY be recovered several times over in 15+ years of service. The service intervals of these are perfect for EVs, while it’s not a stretch to say that Mercedes Metris van’s are hardly the paragon of long term reliability. For the routes that need rugged carriers, it’s a non-issue since the EV vans are about equal with the Metris anyways.
Yes there’s an upfront cost, but if congress *really* cared about USPS saving money and being sustainable long term (and long term stability should be the goal of every bit of the government) then do what makes the most financial sense over the next 15+ years. Don’t cry about this short term “not profitable” nonsense I hear as a talking point for the post office while trying to kneecap them long term.
I know this is going to be frustrating for folks, but I have seen enough janky electrical work to think it’s for the best.
But that’s the point. The people doing it with full jank will still be doing it because they weren’t following the code already. I’ll also say, based on my experience, there are many electrical contractors, like all other kinds of contractors, that add their own jank because they shortcut installs to save time and / or money.
If you’re using a licensed/insured electrician and their jank burns down your house, they’re liable though, not you. If you’re hiring a random contractor and not checking their credentials, that’s even worse than DIY in my mind.
Here’s the thing about regulations like this: it may not stop everyone, but if it makes some people stop and do it right, it helps.
And, yeah, finding the cheapest electrician might get you some jank, but at least a licensed contractor is going to be legally responsible for any installation problems. And home insurance won’t be denying claims because you are assumed to have done it wrong if there’s a paper trail. I’ll gladly pull a permit because it will save headaches down the line.
I’m a hard core DIY Everything I can sort of person, but after fighting a single double pole outlet on a circuit when renovating my house, If I ever want any sort of EV charger in my house, I’m paying a professional regardless of how simple it seems. I’m already hesitant to mess with wining as is, something that high voltage and current is not something I want to mess with. It may cost a thousand or two, but to avoid my house burning down, seems like cheap insurance.
I’m all for DIY too, but I agree on electrical work, especially since these circuits have the potential to pull more power than any other circuit in the house. My EV charger pulls over 11kW at full tilt.
I agree that this is the better solution not only for the current owners, but subsequent ones who are going to be oblivious to the quality of previous work. Too many people think they can be electricians because they hooked up some A/V equipment. This is particularly good for new subsequent owners of flipped homes where flippers are even more likely to cut corners than someone who plans to live with what they wired for a while.
Home flippers are the worst.
“We installed a little shiplap to hide the water damage and mold, cabinets that are held up with tiny screws and hope, and a floor that’s almost level. That should add about $200,000 to the asking price!”
Those damn TV shows with completely ridiculous time frames and cost tallies way under what can be realistically expected that made it seem like any moron could do it certainly didn’t help. That’s how you end up with panicked dummies in way over their heads just trying not to lose money.
When we renovated our last house, we shopped around for better quality, non-box store cabinets, sinks, etc. (that was often cheaper if you don’t count time hunting online), so as to not look like all the HD catalog flipped houses on the market (it wasn’t a flip house, but we did do a bunch of stuff toward the end). We still made a tidy profit even though we had bought near the pre-08 market peak. We did do a lot of the work, but not plumbing or electrical kinds of things for both safety and in case someone asked for permits, and some other things that were just not worth doing ourselves, anyway (like refinishing and fixing wood floors, but we got an absolute steal on the job and they did great work—probably 2000 sq ft worth of abused floors and stairs—including a kitchen with multiple layers of laminate tarred to the oak underneath—removing a trap door, reinforcing the floor where it had been, and seamlessly integrating the new boards, plus some other damaged areas that had boards replaced all for about $1100, which was probably around 2007! The only part of it I did was rebuild a 6-step staircase).
Wow, that is a helluva deal on the floors! And the right way to do things. Do it right the first time instead of being forced to redo it when it all goes to crap from doing it cheap.
100% true! Too many DIYs blow up or burn down their homes. Building codes are written in blood.
True enough on how the building codes evolve over time. That said, if you’re a DIYer that understands the codes and can meet or exceed them, I don’t see a problem with doing it yourself.
Also, you can’t always trust a licensed electrician. My first house was previously owned by one, and some of the crap he pulled in it nearly caused the place to burn down more than once, and almost killed my father in law (thank goodness he only used vinyl dipped pliers when working anywhere near wires).
Get the permits, have the inspections, and make whatever corrections and enhancements the inspector requires. That way it’s legal, safe, and you know the caliber of work done on your property.
Funny thing is I would have wired my own EV charger well Nema 14-50 but I need about a 100ft run through either my crawl or attic so I can having an electrician do it. If my breaker was on my garage I would have done it myself. Also not sure how well I would have trusted myself doing it anyways rather be safe then sorry or rather having my house burnt down hah.
I lucked out my electrical box is in the garage so the Nema 14-50 outlet got installed 8 inches from my electrical box.
At least half of the Amazon vans are electric Rivians around here but if there’s a single electric mail truck I haven’t seen it.
Funny how that happens sometimes.
Same here in Pgh, PA. I’ve seen lots of Amazon Rivians, but not a single new USPS delivery vehicle.
We had a ~6mo period with Rivian Amazon vans, but now were back to Budget/Hertz Ford Transit rentals. Still no new USPS vehicles.
Same all I see now seems to be Rivian Amazon trucks. Mail vehicles for me are anything from the grummans to jeeps to minivans to a Chevy Sonic of all things.
Considering I believe we live in the same town or close to it, it’s nice to know I’m not totally off my rocker here.
I am outside Valpo in a “ruralish area” and funny thing is I drive though La Porte for work and there is a Dominoes there with a fleet of Chevy Bolts so I have seen more electric pizza delivery vehicles then I have ever seen for my mail hah.
As someone who lived in a rural area for the first 23 years of their life, I was accustomed to seeing our mail carriers use all kinds of cars for delivery, some off the top of my head were a 1st Gen focus sedan, Honda Fit, Dodge Dakota, Prius, Honda Element, some 80’s Buick sedan (LeSabre I think), and even a JDM Toyota Previa.
I asked my mail lady if she knew anything about the new mail vans. She said she had heard a small city (population 26,000) in the middle of nowhere of my state (2 hours away from me) had gotten some, and that’s all she heard. She said she’d give me a tour if she ever got one though.
I don’t think I’ve seen a gas powered Amazon van for 2-3 years now not counting enterprise rentals, but USPS and UPS are gas / diesel exclusively, and maybe 1 in 50 Fedex vans are an EV. (Chicago, BTW)