Home » How The Fight Over Electric Mail Vans Stalled Out

How The Fight Over Electric Mail Vans Stalled Out

Electric Mail Van Ts2
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Electric mail vans just make sense, and a heavily electrified USPS fleet could save taxpayers billions over the lifespan of the vehicles. However, they’re also controversial, and the current administration wants to get rid of them ASAP. Turns out, that’s not happening — at least, not through the avenues the administration expected to use — thanks to the senate parliamentarian.

Speaking of challenges facing EVs, it might soon be illegal to hardwire in your own Level 2 charging station, and homeowners might turn to a workaround with some added risk. On the plus side, it turns out that EV battery packs are degrading slower than ever, a tidbit of good news in all of this. Oh, and the UAW’s in hot water for something new.

Vidframe Min Top
Vidframe Min Bottom

This issue of The Morning Dump is a bit late, and that’s on me. However, I hope you’re still able to grab a cup of something caffeinated, possibly even some lunch this late in the day, and peruse some bite-sized tidbits of automotive news.

The Plan To Scrap Electric Mail Vans Is On Ice For Now

Nextgen Postal Vehicle electric mail van
Photo credit: USPS

The USPS currently has around 7,200 electric vehicles, some of which are Ford e-Transit cargo vans that anyone can buy, and some of which are electric variants of Oshkosh’s purpose-built Next-Generation Delivery Vehicle. Delivery by electric vehicle is a great concept with low running costs, but it seems the current administration wants to force USPS to ditch its electric mail vans. Why get rid of them? Well, it’s a $3 billion program and it has has faced delays, though it’s possible part of the rationale is ideologically driven. Via Reuters:

Senate Republicans argued scrapping EVs would “focus USPS on delivering mail and not achieving the environmental aims pushed by the Biden administration.”

Those who are dealing with procurement and use of these electric delivery vehicles don’t seem particularly happy about this movement, partly because hundreds of millions of dollars have already been spent on plug-in vans, partly because removing them would leave USPS with a serious shortfall, and partly because the electric mail vans actually seem modern and seem to work, as Reuters reports:

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USPS warned on June 13 that scrapping the electric vehicles would cost it $1.5 billion, including $1 billion to replace its current fleet of EVs and $500 million in EV infrastructure rendered useless and “seriously cripple our ability to replace an aging and obsolete delivery fleet.”

Efforts to scrap the postal service’s electric vehicle fleet have been at least stalled for now thanks to the Parliamentarian of the Senate, a position that’s only existed since 1935, and has only even been filled by six people. Among other interpretative duties, the Parliamentarian decides whether a budget clause objected to under the Byrd Rule will require a supermajority to pass, or whether it can be approved by a simple majority. From Reuters:

Senate parliamentarian Elizabeth MacDonough, whose role is to ensure lawmakers follow proper legislative procedure, said a provision to force the sale could not be approved via a simple majority vote in the Republican-controlled chamber and will instead need a 60-vote supermajority, according to Democrats on the Senate Budget Committee.

Given the split of the Senate, it’s unlikely a 60-vote supermajority to make USPS scrap its EVs would be reached. However, it’s worth noting that the role of senate parliamentarian is largely an advisory one. The Vice President, being President of the Senate, can theoretically overrule the parliamentarian’s guidance, and the Senate majority leader can fire the parliamentarian. This certainly isn’t over, but this recent ruling seems to give electric vans the upper hand for now.

From a practical perspective, local mail delivery is just about the perfect application for an electric vehicle. We’re talking about a job with glacial average vehicle speeds, more stops than the door hardware section at Lowes, often relatively short routes, and a central depot to return to. It’s a good enough use case that private sector couriers like FedEx and UPS are giving electric mail vans a shot for city routes, so why not the United States Postal Service?

It May Soon Be Illegal To Install Your Own EV Charging Station

Chargepoint charger
Photo credit: Chargepoint

If you’re particularly handy around the house and want to install an EV charging station, you might want to do so soon. Motor Trend reports that under the recently approved 2026 edition of the National Electrical Code, new language means anyone wanting to have a hardwired charging station at home will soon have to pay a professional to install it, along with pulling permits and all that jazz. From Motor Trend:

The change stems from a new addition to the 2026 NEC that reads, “Permanently installed electric vehicle power transfer system equipment shall be installed by qualified persons.” As proposed and ratified, the 2026 NEC defines a qualified person in vague terms likely to be interpreted by states and code enforcement departments to mean a licensed electrician.

The problem with the proposed language is that making do-it-yourself installations illegal doesn’t necessarily stop homeowners from doing their own electrical work. It does guarantee, however, that any EV chargers put in by amateurs will be installed without the appropriate permit and the accompanying safety inspection.

Since the Motor Trend story went live, the National Fire Protection Association has ratified the clause, meaning that once the new code is adopted by individual states, residents of those states will need to hire a professional electrician to install a hardwired Level 2 charging setup at some.

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However, there is likely a workaround here. Considering the wording pertains to “Permanently installed electric vehicle power transfer system equipment,” a homeowner installing a UL-listed, GCFI-equipped NEMA 14-50 socket, getting it checked over and okayed by an electrician, and then plugging a NEMA 14-50-compatible Level 2 charger into that socket should be legal, but that comes with extra risk.

In this Reddit thread discussing the issue, several users report issues with inexpensive 14-50 sockets, including one who wrote “I have first hand experience of melting a cheap 14-50 at least, so if this rule leads to more people doing that to avoid hardwiring it would reduce safety like the counter argument in the article states.”

Study Claims Most EV Battery Packs Should Outlast The Cars They’re In

Hyundai Ioniq 2020
Photo credit: Hyundai

One common concern the public has with EVs is how long the battery packs will actually last. By now, early modern EVs are more than a decade old, and for every Model S with crazy mileage on its original pack, there seems to be a story of a BMW i3 or Nissan Leaf with serious battery degradation. However, battery tech has done anything but stand still over the past ten years or so. Telematics firm Geotab recently released an updated edition of its EV battery health study involving data from 10,000 cars, and the report states that battery degradation has improved significantly.

When we analysed EV battery health in 2019, we found that EV batteries degraded, on average, at a rate of 2.3% per year. However, a new 2024 analysis reveals a significant improvement: EV batteries now degrade at an average of 1.8% per year. This improvement highlights ongoing advancements in battery technology and durability.

According to Geotab research, EV batteries could last 20 years or more if degradation continues at this improved rate. This is particularly encouraging for fleet operators under pressure to reduce CO2 emissions.

Sounds good, right? Well, mostly. There’s math to be done here, and the numbers tell a positive story with one caveat, so let’s start with the upside. The general threshold for degradation under most warranties is about 80 percent of a pack’s original capacity, and if newer packs lose an average of 1.8 percent of original usable capacity every year (it’s not linear, to be clear), that 80 percent capacity threshold won’t be hit until the average EV is 12 years old. That’s not bad considering the average light-duty vehicle on American roads is 12.6 years old according to S&P Global, and that’s average age, not median age. If I were to hazard a guess, the median age would likely trend lower because classics only make up a tiny portion of the fleet but can definitely skew averages.

However, there is a bit of a downside here, and that’s the potential for those in the hooptie end of the market to be somewhat left behind. See, extend the timeline out to 20 years, and the Geotab study suggests the average battery pack will have 64 percent of its original usable capacity by then. That would essentially result in a 36 percent haircut in range, something hybrid and purely combustion-powered cars don’t suffer from when they’re two decades old. Even among staff here, many of us daily drive cars that are around that age, so if that 1.8 percent-per-year loss of original capacity does prove to extrapolate out, hooptie EVs might have limited appeal compared to hooptie hybrids.

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[Ed Note: I’m hopeful that this rate flattens out substantially over time, and that my 2021 BMW i3’s battery will last longer than 20 years. -DT]. 

Another UAW Scandal

Shawn Fain Bosses Tears
Source: UAW

Remember in 2023, when United Auto Workers went on strike for better deals that rolled back some of the cuts made during the Great Recession? Well, striking can be expensive, and the UAW pulled funds out of its investment portfolio to cover them. However, Reuters reports that the UAW didn’t re-invest according to policy following this re-allocation of funds for more than a year, and the union could’ve missed out on $80 million according to UAW board members because of this; from Reuters:

UAW investment policy calls for keeping about 30% of its money in stocks, 53% fixed income and 17% alternative investments, according to three union sources and the documents.

The board voted to liquidate about $340 million in stock investments in August 2023 to pay strike costs, according to a union document reviewed by Reuters. The wording of the vote stipulated that the money be reinvested according to union policy after the strike ended and the labor contracts were ratified, though it didn’t specify how quickly.

But almost none of its portfolio was invested in stocks during the year after the strike began in September 2023, according to the records reviewed by Reuters. The news agency was unable to establish why the stock investment wasn’t made.

In February 2025, union staff conducted an analysis that showed the union might have earned $80 million more if its portfolio had been invested according to union policy, according to a document viewed by Reuters.

This irregularity is now being investigated by the feds, and word of it comes at a trying time for the union. Not only has organization momentum weakened over the past year, including failing to organize Mercedes-Benz’s plant in Alabama, but there’s currently another scandal around a dispute between union president Shawn Fein and secretary-treasurer Margaret Mock. Organization often gets workers better pay and conditions, yet allegations like this don’t bolster confidence in the UAW because infighting affects both productivity and image.

What I’m Listening To While Writing TMD

“Y Control” by the Yeah Yeah Yeahs is just a great song, isn’t it? Twinkling guitars, driving drums, and some seriously great lyricism all add up to a timeless track. I mean, just think about the line “I wish I could buy back the woman you stole” for a second.

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The Big Question:

Have you seen any electric mail vans out and about? What do you think of them?

Top graphic credit: USPS

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Fuzzyweis
Fuzzyweis
4 days ago

I had just a regular GFCI 14-50 outlet run to the driveway for my charger as my thought was, how long will this charger last? It’d be nice to be able to replace it easy.

Hard wiring an electric charger is like hard wiring a dryer or fridge, yeah maybe it’ll last 20 years, or maybe it’ll last 5 and either way you’re paying to have someone wire in a new one.

For the mail trucks,how much longer for this world is the mail? I’m trying to think of the few things I actually need the mail for:

  • Car registrations/stickers, really just need the stickers so maybe an express window at the dmv or repurpose old photomat kiosks.
  • Health insurance cards, but that could all be online/on phone
  • Debit/Credit card but probably should probably come trackable like through Fedex/UPS.
  • Birthday cards but meh, they can text/call me.
  • Christmas packages, but those and any other packages really, could be Fedex/UPS

We don’t subscribe to Amazon so a lot of that comes via usps now but I’m sure if that wasn’t an option they’d just add it to the trucks.

For people that use the mail for their bills/checks, my opinion is that’s just opening opportunity for identity theft but maybe I’m the fool doing everything online that I can.

1978fiatspyderfan
1978fiatspyderfan
4 days ago

It is stupid to try to throw out EV mail trucks until they are used up. That being said I think the USPS is about 250,000 trucks short of where they claimed they would be so ordering more is stupid as well. Sure they will last longer because it will be 50 years before they get the last shipment. They simply can’t produce working EVs in fast enough to replace the EVs let alone the old ICE vehicles.

Now these EVs of which you speak. They are 20% more expensive than ICE vehicles. In 12 years their already lack of range will be reduced by 20%. With ICE vehicles they may depreciate but still you have typical MOG and operations similar to new. Of course after 10 years you can sell an ICE vehicle for decent money. How much is the EV going to go for when nothing but a new battery, in a 12 year old car, will ever improve and each year get worse range? I can just see the hey put on a new battery that costs more than a new car, because EVs will get cheaper, and you can have a mediocre range 12 year old car. Otherwise the trade in of a EV that cost $10k more than an ICE vehicle will be worth about another $10k LESS than the ICE cars that was $10k cheaper at new with a platform that makes Stellantis platform look positively new.

Jonee Eisen
Jonee Eisen
4 days ago

You think they’re going to get decent money selling their 9 mpg weird looking mail vans? Making them EVs makes so much sense it’s ridiculous they’d even consider internal combustion except in the most extreme locales.

Kelly
Kelly
4 days ago

It’s a bummer the USPS can’t just use an existing EV of some sort like the other delivery companies use or is sold to civilians. That way we would get some economies of scale vs. a goofy proprietary vehicle that can only be used by USPS and sold only via crazy .gov contracts.

Even just a RHD version of an existing thing would be simpler to develop vs. something all new.

RustyJunkyardClassicFanatic
RustyJunkyardClassicFanatic
4 days ago

Postal Employee: “May I help you?”
Kramer: “Yeah, I’d like to cancel my mail.”
Postal Employee: “Certainly. How long would you like us to hold it?”
Kramer: “Oh, no, no. I don’t think you get me. I want out, permanently.”
Newman: “I’ll handle this, Violet. Why don’t you take your three hour break?
Oh, calm down, everyone. No one’s cancelling any mail.”
Kramer: “Oh, yes, I am.”
Newman: “What about your bills?”
Kramer: “The bank can pay ’em.”
Newman: “The bank. What about your cards and letters?”
Kramer: “E-mail, telephones, fax machines. Fedex, telex, telegrams,
holograms.”
Newman: “All right, it’s true! Of course nobody needs mail!

Manwich Sandwich
Manwich Sandwich
4 days ago

 new language means anyone wanting to have a hardwired charging station at home will soon have to pay a professional to install it”

Not a big deal. Just install a NEMA 14-50 plug instead and plug whatever you want into that.

“Have you seen any electric mail vans out and about? What do you think of them?”

In my area, I’ve seen some GM Brightdrop vans and I think they are great. I look forward to all parcel/mail delivery vehicles being BEVs eventually.

1978fiatspyderfan
1978fiatspyderfan
4 days ago

Frankly I defy anyone to show me a permanent charging station. I bet I can rip it out in less than an hour.

Defenestrator
Defenestrator
4 days ago

All installations are temporary on a long enough timeline.

Ben
Ben
4 days ago

See, extend the timeline out to 20 years, and the Geotab study suggests the average battery pack will have 64 percent of its original usable capacity by then.

I’m pretty sure I made this exact point on an article about EV battery degradation not that long ago. Sure, it’s great that EV batteries are lasting 10 years, but 10 years isn’t even the average age of a car anymore. Are we going to be scrapping 15 year old cars because they need a $20000 battery replacement?

[Ed Note: I’m hopeful that this rate flattens out substantially over time, and that my 2021 BMW i3’s battery will last longer than 20 years. -DT].

You’re dreaming. If anything, batteries tend to degrade faster the older they get, which is another point I made previously. As noted in the article, degradation is not linear, but generally speeds up with age. How many people have had cell phone batteries that were fine for a couple of years then by year 3 had lost enormous amounts of capacity?

Dinklesmith
Dinklesmith
4 days ago
Reply to  Ben

1) new batteries are more like $10k than $20k
2) why on earth would you put a brand new battery in when you can just get a refurbished pack or a junkyard pack for cheap? I honestly dont understand the absolute hysteria over EV battery life

Ben
Ben
4 days ago
Reply to  Dinklesmith

1) Maybe for something small like an i3 (I think David mentioned 8 or 9k for his if he paid out of pocket?), but especially the bigger crossovers are going to be way over that.

2) “Refurbished” means someone took a bunch of old cells and jammed them into a pack and resold them to some sucker. And if the packs don’t outlast the car, where are you getting junkyard ones from? Crashed vehicles? The packs are structural components that will frequently be damaged. This isn’t like pulling a pristine engine out of a low-mileage car that got totalled in a rear-end collision.

I honestly dont understand the absolute hysteria over EV battery life

You don’t understand why people are concerned about a possible 5 figure repair in their $30000 (or less, if they bought used) car? Really?

Dinklesmith
Dinklesmith
2 days ago
Reply to  Ben

Oh yeah you’re definitely right. You just waived your hand and said refurbished packs are only sold to suckers so you can safely ignore that point, even though refurbished packs are what Tesla, the largest EV maker, uses for their standard replacement packs. Its so easy to win an argument when you can just completely ignore stuff you dont like.

Yes, its hysteria and the motivated reasoning like what youre doing is precisely what makes it hysteria. Refurbished packs work really well.

Battery packs will outlast the car in the vast majority of cases. Not a lot of cars make it to 300,000 miles and 15-20 years old. They’re junked and rusted out long before then. For the few people who make it that far, junk yard packs (which, despite your hand waiving, do actually exist in fairly large quantities. Anyone who actually uses EV components knows that) or refurbished packs will do fine.

Theotherotter
Theotherotter
4 days ago

“…it’s possible part of the rationale is ideologically driven…”

LOL this government’s choice in what it eats for breakfast in the morning is ideologically driven, and that the rationale for this also is is as plain as the sun, as shown by the very next grafs after that sentence.

Hillbilly Ocean
Hillbilly Ocean
3 days ago
Reply to  Theotherotter

Guaranteed the Parliamentarian is on the streets within 2 weeks. Republicans will put their own dongs in a pencil sharpener to own the libs

Who Knows
Who Knows
4 days ago

Dedicated mail vehicles? Mail delivery? That’s funny, where I live we’re just hoping we still have a (janky) post office next year. We’re lucky enough to have a grandfathered in mail box at the shack down the hill, possibly the only place locally that mail is delivered other than the post office.

If the politicians are serious about cutting costs for the USPS, they can always expand this model to the entire country- get a PO box, and pick up your mail yourself at your local post office, or don’t get it at all. They could then get rid of all local delivery vehicles. I’m sure that would go over well…

Cars? I've owned a few
Cars? I've owned a few
4 days ago
Reply to  Who Knows

I don’t know where you live, but no post office I’ve ever been to would have adequate parking for everybody to show up.

In 1983, I moved to a new subdivision that had a mail kiosk and the last couple of places I have lived also have that model. And, not by design, but they have been within 25 feet of my front door.

Who Knows
Who Knows
3 days ago

oh, they don’t have adequate parking, about 4 spaces in an alley. Luckily we don’t have to go there and stand in line for an hour any time we have a package. Locals have been pushing for the kiosks and such for years, but no luck

Ignatius J. Reilly
Ignatius J. Reilly
4 days ago

The national electrical code isn’t directly a law. Various state and local entities each implement variations of different codes. Often, they may take years to implement a new version of the national code or write rules that modify it per local standards. Besides, the language doesn’t seem like it changes anything. The same language applies to just about any electrical work.

Also, nobody who would screw up installing an outlet should be installing a hardwired charger.

Cars? I've owned a few
Cars? I've owned a few
4 days ago

Having gotten jolted enough times by lots of things, from a 9V battery on my tongue to a ~10,000 volt sparkplug lead, a 120V plug I tried to pull out the wrong way as a kindergartner, I’m fine with requiring a professional (and insured) electrician to do the installation and testing. I don’t want to get zapped. I don’t want a friend who thinks they’re good at it getting zapped either. And I don’t want my home burning down.

Tbird
Tbird
4 days ago

I’m competant at low voltage DC and 110/120V AC household. I’ll do some work on 220/240V AV as long as I can ENSURE the power is off. I own most of the the tools.

Adding a HV battery charger to my breaker panel — I’m calling a Pro.

Cars? I've owned a few
Cars? I've owned a few
4 days ago
Reply to  Tbird

I replaced the 120V knob and tube wiring and outlets in a home in a Cleveland suburb, wow… almost 35 years ago. I survived 120V as a kid. I didn’t want to mess around with anything bigger wattage than that then. Less interested now.

Worst thing that happened with low voltage DC was essentially arc-welding two links of a Twist-O-Flex watch band together under the dashboard of my ’68 Datsun 510 messing around with something that wasn’t working. The burn scar that left is still barely visible.

Defenestrator
Defenestrator
4 days ago
Reply to  Tbird

It’s not “high voltage” like the DC fast chargers. This is just L2, so it’s passing through the 240V and letting the car handle any conversion. Definitely a bit worse to screw up than a standard 120V outlet or even a dryer outlet, but only by a matter of degrees.

Personally, 240V is my cutoff. I’m fine with basically anything in the house, but I’m not touching 480V or above. That’s getting into the zone where the definition of “insulator” starts to get fuzzier, and just being near something going wrong can be hazardous even if you’re not touching it.

Ignatius J. Reilly
Ignatius J. Reilly
4 days ago

Just another piece of evidence in an infinitely long list that illustrates that everything Trump supporters have zero interest in doing things well and only care about causing other people pain. It is their entire personality.

Rob Stercraw
Rob Stercraw
4 days ago

My son is a USPS mechanic in California and they have been pushing back training for these EVs ever since they were announced. They stopped scrapping LLVs en masse over a year ago and have raised the threshold at which they are mechanically totalled and scrapped.

Bob
Bob
4 days ago
Reply to  Rob Stercraw

Those would be LLVs that are at minimum 30 years old (and based on a 40 year-old design). Or, as the Postal Service described them in 2021:

“The current outdated delivery vehicles, some as many as 34 years in operation, are inefficient, increasingly unreliable, costly to maintain, and lack certain modern safety and operational features needed for mail carriers. The Postal Service plans to deploy a new generation of RHD vehicles that incorporates the latest advancements in automotive technologies and better serves operations, employees, and customers. Given the mail mix changes that have occurred and additional package growth expected as e-commerce sales continue to rise, new delivery vehicles would need a larger cargo area that also allows easier retrieval of packages than existing, outdated RHD vehicles. The Proposed Action is needed to replace these outdated delivery vehicles to improve safety and ergonomics for Postal Service carriers and to enable the Postal Service to meet its statutory mandate to maintain efficient nationwide delivery of the mail and to provide prompt, reliable, and efficient services to patrons.

Rob Stercraw
Rob Stercraw
4 days ago
Reply to  Bob

That’s what the USPS said, but its not being practiced at all – at least in our area. There are a lot of Ram Promasters and some Mercedes Metris supplementing the LLVs. The Promasters and Metris have their own problems – The Metris seat cushions are a routine replacement – at nearly $700 each.

Bob
Bob
3 days ago
Reply to  Rob Stercraw

Now you’re talking about how money gets authorized, appropriated, and executed. Federal agencies conduct analysis, make corporate decisions, and then provide Budget submissions to the president. The president sends a budget request to the Congress, which is only a request. One set of Congressional committes broadly “authorizes” what an agency is allowed to do and how much they are able to spend. Another set of committees “appropriates” money for fairly specific purposes. Upon signature by the president those bills become law. Once the funds trickle down to the agency they typically follow a set of federal regulations to award a contract to actually do the work. All of that takes time at best, and just because an agency says they want funding doesn’t mean that they receive it immediately or can “execute” it in one smooth pass. So there could be any number of reasons why what an agency said some time ago hasn’t happened yet.

Of course, that was only what happened for the last 200 years. Now, apparently, just because the legislature creates laws of the land it doesn’t mean that the executive need to ” take Care that the Laws be faithfully executed” if, you know, he doesn’t feel like it.

Last edited 3 days ago by Bob
TDI in PNW
TDI in PNW
4 days ago
Reply to  Bob

Correction to their statement:

“and lack ALL modern safety and operational features” 

No ABS
No airbags
No stability control
No A/C
Barely functioning defrost/heat
All dash / door surfaces hard metal with rough edges.

Each 30+ year old LLV has a laundry list of unique little issues to discover.

Even the newer, 2001ish Ford based FFV (looks a lot like an LLV) has no airbags and has a sticker to let you know they decided you don’t get an airbag, regardless of it being law.

“Safety 1st!”

Cars? I've owned a few
Cars? I've owned a few
4 days ago

Well, like so much in this country, it’s gotten excessively politicized. Including the Trump appointment of Louis DeJoy, a GOP donor, five years ago.

Sure, he owned a logistics business before taking office but was the first postmaster general in almost 20 years who was not a career postal employee. And a friend of mine who was working for the USPS during his term, said that he had never seen morale lower.

He recently resigned and it will be interesting to see who replaces him, but given the current administration, I wouldn’t expect them to be any more EV-friendly. In fact, the opposite.

In extremely rural areas with very long routes, ICE vehicles make sense, but everywhere else, it seems like EVs would be more economical and lower maintenance.

Disclaimer: I am not USPS employee, never have been and no longer have to manage fleets of vehicles.

Last edited 4 days ago by Cars? I've owned a few
Rob Stercraw
Rob Stercraw
4 days ago

One of the problems is infrastructure as the smaller post offices. EV postal vehicles need to be charged overnight, at the post office in a secured area. Many smaller post offices do not have the space or power readily available in the area to charge enough EVs to support the local needs

Dan Bee
Dan Bee
4 days ago
Reply to  Rob Stercraw

I disagree. Low power Level 2 (240V) charging is all that is needed. The report that the consultants wrote for USPS about how much charging would be needed was on one side of the range. Guess which one?

Bob
Bob
3 days ago
Reply to  Rob Stercraw

Part of the reason the government gets into this is exactly to encourage investment in infrastructure that will then be useful to the broader community. If a commercial supplier knows they have a customer that needs to charge a useful number of vehicles every night then they might find it becomes worthwhile to install capabilties that don’t make sense for an unknown number of private citizen customers who may or may not want to participate. Once it’s built for the rows of vehicles at the station I’ve got around the corner then it may become cheaper to extend that system to others at a cost that’s affordable and profitable.

And if that investment doesn’t make sense then it’s not the right place for EVs, much of the country is going to need ICE vehicles for a long time. But 80% of Americans live in what the Census Bureau calls urban environments, so that’s a VERY big market.

Last edited 3 days ago by Bob
KevFC
KevFC
4 days ago

(1-.018)^20 = .695, not the .64 remaining in the article. 

Nathan
Nathan
4 days ago
Reply to  KevFC

“1.8 percent-per-year loss of original capacity” not 1.8% per-year loss of remaining capacity

KevFC
KevFC
4 days ago
Reply to  Nathan

Thank you, but which is the better model of what is happening?

Defenestrator
Defenestrator
4 days ago
Reply to  KevFC

My guess would be percent of original loss of capacity. If nothing else, because I’d expect loss as a percent of current capacity to accelerate a bit because the same length trip is actually going to mean a bit deeper charge/discharge cycle.

Nathan
Nathan
4 days ago
Reply to  KevFC

1-(0.018*20) is just how the sentence is written. It is probably a linearization of the real formula.

The real model is going to have a linear period and then an accelerated period.

So with completely made up numbers:
0.01*12+0.03*8=0.36
1% of original capacity loss for 12 years and then 3% after that also gives the 1.8% per year average over 20 years.

The accelerated period is also not linear. More battery loss is occurring in year 20 than year 1.

H4llelujah
H4llelujah
4 days ago

I would love to have an EV for my route. I’m about 100 miles a day, but 600 plus stops!

Currently doing it in a RHD wrangler, and it works wonderful and I love it. BUT I’m burning up around 10 gallons of fuel a day, I do oil changes every month and a half. I replace brake pads every 4 months, rotors twice a year.

So right around 800 ish a month averaged out to run this thing. If there were an EV with RHD and decent cargo space that could do around 150 miles and be bought for 25ish grand, I’d save money even with a car payment, and be waaaaay better for the environment.

Kinda itching for the slate to come out, if it comes to market with the front bench, I might be able to make it work.

Bjorn A. Payne Diaz
Bjorn A. Payne Diaz
4 days ago
Reply to  H4llelujah

When you say “I replace..” what do you mean? This is your vehicle and you’re responsibility to maintain?

Scoutdude
Scoutdude
4 days ago

I’d say he is a contract carrier who yes is responsible for providing their own vehicle and paying for all of its costs.

H4llelujah
H4llelujah
3 days ago

Rural carrier. Our office has 5 routes but only one LLV and one Metris, so some of us use our own personal vehicles in exchange for extra money on our paycheck. We get 95 cents per mile extra on our checks. In my case it pretty much covers all my fuel, vehicle payment, and repairs.

Jason H.
Jason H.
4 days ago

In my area USPS uses ancient LLVs, Amazon uses Rivian vans, and UPS uses diesel step vans.

Cars? I've owned a few
Cars? I've owned a few
4 days ago
Reply to  Jason H.

Same mix where I live… near Seattle. Oh, and the USPS uses some Dodge/RAM ProMaster vans for parcel delivery.

Sackofcheese
Sackofcheese
4 days ago

USPS Uses the Mercedes vans here, but Amazon is almost exclusively the Rivian van. IMO Electric is the perfect choice for 3/4 of my post office’s delivery routes

Drive By Commenter
Drive By Commenter
4 days ago

So much for rooting out waste, fraud and abuse. It’s a waste ditching perfectly good mail vehicles that will more than pay for the premium over ICE vehicles in saved fuel costs over their lifetime.

I wonder how invested the Senators who proposed that are in FedEx and UPS. Someone ought to check for fraud and abusing their position for personal enrichment. Oh wait, that will happen on February 30th.

Last edited 4 days ago by Drive By Commenter
Ben
Ben
4 days ago

They didn’t tell us that when they said “Drain the swamp” they were planning to drain it into all of our backyards.

Joke #119!
Joke #119!
4 days ago

Have you seen any electric mail vans out and about? What do you think of them?

I’ve not seen one in my area. but I think Duh, of course they should be EV.
Really, think how much mileage a local-delivery mail truck puts in per day. can’t be more than 200 miles. They average 20mph most of the time, for an 8-hour shift. Why not an EV? Longer-haul ones, sure, hybridize those puppies.

I have a electric dryer plug near the garage not being used (we have a gas dryer). I wouldn’t do the work myself, as I have a friend who is a professional and I know what kind of wine he likes.

Last edited 4 days ago by Joke #119!
Jb996
Jb996
4 days ago
Reply to  Joke #119!

Because politics. That is why we can’t have nice things.

Joke #119!
Joke #119!
4 days ago
Reply to  Jb996

True. USPS could also have slowly and unnoticeably bought these over time to replace whatever needs to be replaced, instead of noticeably all at once (Don’t get the volume discount, though.)

Dan Bee
Dan Bee
4 days ago
Reply to  Joke #119!

Their routes are much shorter. Check out the data about halfway down in this infographic: https://www.greatbusinessschools.org/usps-long-life-vehicle/

Ottomadiq
Ottomadiq
4 days ago

UAW leadership fumbling? No! *shock*

Johnny Ohio
Johnny Ohio
4 days ago

We just have the old ass LLVs and some rebadged Mercedes vans. There’s the occasional Jeep/CRV with right-hand drive installed on it though.

Andy Individual
Andy Individual
4 days ago

In Ontario the rule has been that if you are a homeowner, you can do your own electrical, but it has to be ESA inspected. If your work is good and to code, the inspection is painless. About 20 years back I gutted my house for a full reno. I rewired everything, including new panel and service. I pulled out every last trace of the 1920’s wiring.

When the inspector arrived he looked around, went back to his car to get his digital camera and started taking pictures. He said “obviously done by an amateur”. I thought, what could I have done wrong? I asked him and he said “I have never seen a licensed electrician do work this neat or well though out”, and continued to take pictures. He wanted to show them to his colleagues. I just said, well, my family is living here.

I know several electricians, some commercial, some residential as well as an instructor of structured wiring courses. All have confirmed he was probably right.

If I recall that inspection cost about $250, so basically nothing. Even if it were $2000 today, well worth it to get everything safe. Also, I sent the certificate to my insurance company and got that back and more in a reduced rate.

I have to open a basement wall to reconfigure an area. It is where I would at some point need to run power to where I would want to have a charger. An EV is in the distant future for me so I don’t know what charger I will need. Not to mention most EV options are too big to fit in the parking area I would want to charge in. I’m either going to run conduit, or probably fill the conduit and terminate it in a blank box or an NEMA outlet. I’ll leave it disconnected from the panel until the time comes. I could plug a charger in or hardwire to the same box on that day. Even if I get an electrician to complete the job, the expensive and time consuming part of having the drop chased will be done.

Andy Individual
Andy Individual
4 days ago

Also, I so desperately want city garbage trucks to electrify. Stinking noisy diesels that never leave first gear anyway. The ultimate regenerative braking application.

Andrew Pappas
Andrew Pappas
4 days ago

While i agree with you, the electric ones will stink as well…. Especially in the summer

Ranwhenparked
Ranwhenparked
4 days ago

That’s pretty much how it works here, too (Delaware), except we have to have the work plans reviewed and approved by a licensed electrical inspector before starting any work, and then have an inspector come in and certify it after

Although, as a practical matter, what you do in the privacy of your own home, to your own home, can’t really be controlled if it isn’t visible by drone or from the street, not following permitting procedures is more of a problem when it comes time to sell your house

LMCorvairFan
LMCorvairFan
4 days ago

I’ve had the same experience with my ESA inspector. I read and make sure I understand the regs, make a plan, buy the right equipment and check everything twice. He says my work is better than 90% of the pro stuff he inspects. I explained that I’m not a pro, just detail oriented and I’m not on a tight time budget.

I have a 220 plugs for welders and compressor but I’ll go hardwire when the time comes for an EV charger.

We always have a good laugh.

Last edited 4 days ago by LMCorvairFan
JDE
JDE
4 days ago

I like the Rivian Amazon Vans. I honestly don’t hate any of the vans or even school busses that might be better to be electric, though I have seen The amazon vans sitting at a HyVee connected to a charger while the driver is sitting around smoking….waiting….that tells me the setup is not all gumdrops and Lemonade.

?Model S with crazy mileage? this is a mixed bag. generally like the news depending on your view of the push for EV’s means you will find examples on either side that backup your views.

Hoover’s 2013 Model S P85. The electric vehicle, which was four months out of battery warranty, started to display a “maximum battery charge level reduced” error message and couldn’t be charged above 50 miles. I think that car had but 85K miles on it or something.

On the other side, there is the former tesla Taxi Model S that once the 12V battery was replaced, seemed to work just fine for the new owners in England. That one was closer to 300K miles.

Clark B
Clark B
4 days ago

No EV delivery vehicles here. Still LLVs bringing the mail, and various gas powered vans for Amazon. Standard FedEx and UPS trucks that look the same as they always have. I even saw a Ford E-series van that must have been 15+ years old with an Amazon magnet on the side. It had the old corporate face, before the big chrome grille facelift. Usually they just rent vans, so I have no idea where it came from.

Edit: forgot that Amazon also has people making deliveries with their personal vehicles, so that’s probably the story behind the van.

Last edited 4 days ago by Clark B
Mr E
Mr E
4 days ago

Still ancient LLVs in my little NJ town. I can hear them before I see them. Considering how high my property taxes are, I wonder what they’re wasting money on instead of investing in BEV mail trucks.

I think it’s a good idea to prevent people from potentially killing themselves trying their hand at electrical work after only watching a YouTube video. Thankfully, I lucked out with our house. The laundry room is directly behind the garage, so we bought a $300 Split Volt and a $60 adapter and ran the cable through the wall to charge our EV. No expensive electrician needed!

Nlpnt
Nlpnt
4 days ago
Reply to  Mr E

Property taxes are local. Most of it goes to city and school district labor costs, and the biggest driver of increases is health insurance.

Mr E
Mr E
4 days ago
Reply to  Nlpnt

Oops, you’re right. I stand corrected. My taxes are still too damned high, though.

Terry Mahoney
Terry Mahoney
4 days ago
Reply to  Mr E

Property taxes and the USPS have absolutely zero to do with each other.

VermonsterDad
VermonsterDad
4 days ago
Reply to  Mr E

It is a code violation to run a lead cord through a partition. (Unless there is an exception, but I doubt wherever you live carved that out of the NEC)

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