Cars are ridiculous things. That’s why I love them so; they way we’ve developed cars, the way we deal with cars, our relationship with cars, none of it is rational, not by a long shot. All of this irrationality, injected with a weapons-grade dose of nostalgia, is why these things I want to talk about today exist at all: power window switches, made to look like roll-up window cranks. Or, sometimes, switches that can repurpose the existing roll-up window cranks. On the surface, these things seem kind of absurd and part of me feels they should be mocked, but another part kind of understands and even appreciates them. And then yet another part even thinks that their design makes actual, logical sense!
There’s a lot to unpack here. These seem to be primarily targeted at (likely) Boomer-aged or perhaps Gen X muscle car/hot rod owners and builders, the demographics most likely to have some sort of positive nostalgia associated with roll-up windows. I mean, I know I still like having roll-up windows on my cars – some days, that’s all the actual exercise I get, after all.
But how do I feel about a power window switch masquerading as a manual window crank? That’s the question here. Here’s one of these setups in action, if you’re curious.
Car power window switch disguised as an old-timey manual crank window handle.
by ingifs
Looking at that video, I’m struck by something, something I wasn’t exactly expecting: just from a pure human-machine interface standpoint, that’s actually a pretty damn good power window switch!
I mean it, even if we remove the nostalgia from the equation, which is asking a lot, I realize, and just think about the window crank as a handle for an electrical switch, I think the form and shape actually lends itself extremely well to raising and lowering a window. I mean, when you compare it to a conventional window switch, it’s a lot easier to find by feel, and, being a lever that allows for some up/down travel, I think it actually is a lot more intuitive than most conventional window switches.
I mean, just look – there’s a pretty conventional driver’s door window switch setup, and then below that there’s a normal window crank setup. On the normal window switch setup, the motions of the switch are generally forward/back, which translates to up/down, with forward usually meaning down, and back meaning up. Some switches are a sort of push/pull and are a little closer to actual up and down, but I don’t think either setup is as fundamentally intuitive as the switch-adapted window crank, where pushing down sends the window down, and pulling up moves it up. It really couldn’t be easier.
So that’s what’s really getting me – this seemingly ridiculous adaptation of an obsolete method and interface of window lowering/raising actual seems to work great for a completely different method of window raising/lowering! It should be just some silly nostalgic affectation, but it’s somehow not.
I’m actually pretty happy about this realization, too, so I’m not inclined to question it too much. I’m in the sort of mood where I think I’ll just let things that feel good, for whatever reason, exist without over-examination. But what I do want to question has to do with the window-crank-to-electric-window-switch kits being sold at this place called AutoLöc, specifically their incredibly vast array of car models they sell these kits for.
Here’s a sample of the first three:
Wait – they make these window crank adapter kits for a 1901-1907 Oldsmobile Curved Dash? What the hell? The Curved Dash Olds didn’t have windows at all!
Not just no windows, but no glass at all, unless you count the lenses on the oil lamps there. So what are they selling you? A $400 box of specially-crafted air? I think what’s more likely is that they’re using some sort of absurdly comprehensive database of cars to populate these kits, and doing precisely zero editing of such a list.
Like, are they really selling that many of these kits for 1946-1949 Renault Juvaquatre and Dauphinoises? I’m skeptical.
Unrelated but related. If you have one of those oddball cars and you try to find parts for it, these ‘absurdly comprehensive databases’ make searching for parts a pia. You really want some Curved Dash Olds parts, but all you see are universal parts that fit “any” car.
I think if they’re going to say their kit will fit anything that you can drill a mounting hole into, even something without roll-down windows, let’s take it further. I want to see listings for
Subaru SVX upper glass
Apollo Capsule
Batmobile (all versions)
Millennium Falcon
Houston, we have a problem…
Mounted on a panel, not thru the outer skin.
“Universal.”
Would you install four of these on the drivers’ side? ( to control each window ? ) /s
It’s a haptic, non-backlit touch button to select/control all 4 windows made by VW!
Plus one to pop the hatch/trunk.And two for the front and rear defrosters! It’s just a switch, guys, so go nuts! Turn your door into one of those puzzles in a video game! (Oops, I ejected our groceries on the highway)
Actually installed a remote trunk popper solenoid on the ’88 Regal I had in college. An interesting engineering problem and fun day long project. It did increase the everyday usefulness of the car.
Make the knob on the end a push/pull dial (like an electric guitar’s tone pot but instead of smooth analog rotation it’s got two clicky positions). Push/pull for front/back and turn for left/right.
Maybe include a 5th position for all windows together (maybe the lever has that single/double click and you use the double for all windows instead of auto).
On simpler 2-window cars, you could just have a push/pull on the base of the handle itself, skipping the handle hardware altogether.
On some modern coupes there’s an option to just do whatever you do to the driver’s door to both doors…and it is actually very practical.
That does sound quite nice. My 2-window has both on the center console to save money on door inserts and buttons. No different RHD version, and just one switch per door rather than 1 on the passenger’s side and one on the driver’s. I also have the seat heater switches behind them, where the rear window switches are in the 4-window version.
I’m reminded that apparently some early streamliner diesel locomotives similarly used what looked like window crank handles to raise and lower their automotive-style side windows. Only they were air-operated instead of using electric motors.
Paging Mercedes — We need a deep dive on this! ;P
I see these in all the Icon 4×4 videos
Thats… actually pretty cool! I always prefer a big lever over a little lever, and it looks cool, so win win!
I have to think these often break when someone tries to use them as actual cranks and puts the full effort into it.
If they were smart, there’d be a shear pin.
True. End result for a clueless end used is the same. But repair would be cheaper.
This was literally my first thought when I first saw these many years ago.
The instinct is to grab the handle and wind it with much gusto. It’d have to be a very rugged design to not break.
Have seen these at car shows for sale and thought they felt super cheap……first thing I wondered was breakage.
The conventional switch you are showing is going up and down. You put your finger under it to pull it up, or you put your finger on it to push it down. Totally logical.
That’s not how any of the switches on our cars work. They are all back/forward switches. Not hard but not intuitive
I’ve had both. And agree with both points – one is intuitive, the other not really but close.
I am referring to the very sort of window switch that Torch showed us with these totally misleading back-and-forth arrows because they really operate up and down. I have those kind of switches in my car (an Opel Adam, so only one set for the front doors), and they operate up and down, not forward and backward.
Recall the old GM and Ford 4 switch banks they installed over the hole for the hand crank on cars so equipped. Intuitive up/down – but which switch for which window??
IIRC the front most switch was driver door, then pass front, driver rear and pass rear. Been a few decades though.
I rented a Tesla recently (my bad) and the first time I pulled up on the switch to roll the window up, the whole thing came off in my hand.
I love the idea! And you could have four (or more) of them. One for each window. Or for the locks too. They’d have to be pretty stoutly built, but they would look and feel cool AF.
Frankly, I’m all for organ pulls, chunky knurled knobs, airplane instrument panel toggle stiches of all types, brass ball valves, glass gauges, and any levers, cranks, and pulleys to be had. Anything but a touch screen.
I love analog equipment, but a good mix of analog and digital is where it’s at imho.
In my perfect world I’d have a crank window for the driver PLUS power for the rest of the doors. Crank windows ARE more reliable. They just are. Plus I just like em. But goddamn I hate not being able to safely lower the other 3 windows from the drivers seat.
Honestly never understood the crank windows are more reliable angle. Historically I have worked on more crank windows then power ones, and I’ve had more vehicles with power windows than crank ones. Plus having to open up the door is always a pain in the ass because they make window cranks kind of hard to remove.
I’m with you on that. I have had crank windows completely seize up, while the worst I’ve dealt with on a power window was that it got slow. I know they can fail, but it seems like it’s pretty uncommon.
Think it heavily depends on the age/type of car. I’ve also had manual regs get really stiff, but I’ve completely blown up 5 power regulators, and they did it with no warning.
That’s almost definitely a huge factor. A buddy with an older Cadillac had a lot more problems with electric functions than I ever have, but I’ve never had an older car with all that stuff. The oldest car I had with power windows was a ’99. Power windows never failed, but the lock actuator in one door did.
I’ve replaced 5 different power regulators in 3 cars, and all I’ve had to do was lubricate manual regulators. I used to think removing the cranks was hard too, until I saw someone using the “rag switch”
If im ever in ownership of a classic car, or any car that does not already have automatic windows, these will be very high on the list of upgrades for the car. Theyre wonderful, and manual windows are *NOT*.
I own a classic car, and I don’t think I’ve ever wished for electric windows. I guess there’s the rare time I wish I didn’t have to crawl into the back to open the rear windows, but I’ve never wished to have to deal with electric and the work required to fit proper regulators.
I always thought it was a neat idea to upgrade the car to a modern feature without ruining the classic aesthetics, since crank windows are part of the identity of older cars. It’s kinda a turnoff when I see a classic car with visible modern switchgear inside.
More questions. Does it pipe squeaky hand crank sounds through the speakers? Are there simulated shift points? How do I make it operate the rear windows say, in a VW EV? Does any of this require a subscription?
I hate them.
The knob on the driver side manual window crank of my Express likes to pop off now and then. It has a split shaft with prongs. After 18 years of use the prongs don’t prong very well. So I need to push toward the door as I crank.
The f100 I inherited from my dad/pulled out of the farm junkyard had welded steel window cranks and door handles, because they kept breaking and he was too lazy to drive to the store and buy new ones.
It made getting the door cards off without a keyhole saw rather inconvenient, but it was a big improvement.
Our ’74 F100 also has constant problems with the window cranks.
The drivers one especially goes stiff sometimes, which eventually leads to the spinning knob snapping off.
For the past few years it has been replaced with a random bolt with a plastic head on it to make it more comfortable to grab.
We had a piece of rebar and a roller skate wheel. Well, actually, a wheel from a potato chain conveyor, but the same thing.
That sounds like a great solution!
This could be improved by retaining the rolling action but keeping it electronic. Kind of like a simulator with no mechanical connection. That would be peak greatness. Sort of like the Tony Stuart off road game I used to play in the arcades growing up. Keep spinning the wheel to get it to move…
I can see someone not realizing that this is a switch and snapping it off.
I’ve had a lot of coffee today.
Tony Stewart? Just wondering.
Yeah, I got the name wrong, after a quick search the arcade game I was thinking of is called Ivan “Ironman” Stewart Super Offroad. It’s been about 30 years since I last played it… thanks for pointing that out so I could correct it.
When I saw the video I also had the thought that the handle might snap.
Your idea with the servo windows is great, you should have it patented, I’m sure some german car brand or places like Singer will be ready to implemnt such a nicely complex solution with a nostalgic look and feel. : )
Well, those are the answers to two questions. The first is where do we put a switch for the window? Should we cut a new hole in the door for it?
The second question is; what do we do with the place the window crank was?
Look at 1970’s BMWs
They had a round hole cover for where the window cranks would have been – window switches were in the console.
American cars of the 50’s-early 70’s just placed the window switches where the crank would have been.
Not just BMWs, nearly every European car where the base models had crank windows and the upmarket ones had electric. And for extra fun, sometimes the front windows were electric but the rears remained crank like my ’79 Peugeot 504.
I believe that was very normal – all of my parents’ cars in the ’90s/early 2000s had power front windows, manual rear ones.
That includes a Ford Sierra, Citroen BX and a Volvo 850.
When my dad got a ’98 Jeep XJ Cherokee with power windows all around, I thought we were super fancy.
Normal in Europe, unheard of in the US other than oddballs like the Peugeot.
Yeah but the holes for the switches weren’t the same as for the cranks.
Not all of them, such as the car driven by the guy in my profile pic. Second-gen Trans Ams with crank windows had cranks located here:
https://cdn.dealeraccelerate.com/stlouis/1/1644/56855/1920×1440/1978-pontiac-trans-am-se-t-top
…while T/As with power windows got the exact same door cards, but with a black plastic bezel with a red Firebird “screaming chicken” relief, or sometimes gold on special editions.
https://i704.photobucket.com/albums/ww44/auctionsandbeyond/1978%20Pontiac%20Trans%20Am%20Gold%2018%20inch%20sept%202012/100_6476.jpg
Meanwhile, the window switches were relocated to the center console, possibly to keep from confusing them for the identical chrome rocker switches that GM put in every car with power anything.
I was thinking in terms of retrofitting the existing door cards, knobs, and interior with extra points for not attracting the scorn of originalists and for being reversible.
Yup that is why these exist, an easy way to add power windows switches w/o modifying the door panel.
I think the rationale makes sense. The Toyota FJ Cruiser has almost comically large n chunky switchgear, but apparently the idea was supposed to be for ease of operating it all with heavy gloves on. Not that different than a large grippable lever vs a small rocker button.
Back in the 90s I helped install a power window retrofit kit (I think from JCWhitney) that used the cranks as the switches. I am trying to remember what we installed it on, but I recall it being a GM product. It was pretty cool using the crank to actuate it, but I also remember thinking people needed to be warned about it lest they grab the crank and muscle that hidden switch into multiple pieces.
One of the benefits of power windows is adding control for the passenger windows too, how would that work? 4 window cranks? Or more axis movable on the 1? Or maybe the knob at the end becomes a selector?
I’m pretty sure these don’t have the ability to control all of the windows from the driver’s switch, which for me is one of the big benefits of power windows.
Yeah, if I can’t control the other windows, I’m very happy with a hand crank.
I don’t mind rolling up or down my window, what I do mind is rolling or unrolling the passenger window.
I like rolling up or down my window: it’s quicker and gives pinpoint control. But I do mind rolling or unwinding the passenger windows: my ideal driver’s door set-up would be a crank for the driver’s window, switches for the rest, about as likely to happen on OEM vehicles in my lifetime as self-propelled airborne pigs.
My dad had a log truck with what I have always considered the ideal setup. He had a manual driver’s window and a power passenger window. He didn’t have to try to lean across the whole cab to work the passenger window, and the crank worked just fine on his side.
The passenger window was actually air motivated, rather than electric, which worked pretty well. I think electric would have been simpler and probably cheaper to repair if something went wrong.
I wonder if someone smarter than me could do the conversion shown here, but add a switch for which windows are being controlled, like: 1 for driver’s window, 2 for driver and passenger window, 4 for all windows.
VW
I always hated roll-up windows and was grateful to see them go away entirely in new vehicles. (I assume the Slate truck people must be millennials who never had to live with them.) But this faux-crank looks like a pretty neat affordance for an electric window, and I could see myself enjoying it.
I already planned to put these on my Slate truck. But how did you know I was a millennial?
Well Rock Auto offers hundreds of parts my VX doesn’t even have, and doesn’t have parts available that my VX actually has. Today’s auto parts sites have AI offering helicopter rotors for lawnmowers. I assume these parts with dragon flames aren’t OEM parts but the same garbage PEPBOYS offers and that Rock Auto offers. Frankly it is the same as fake engine noises on EVs
That depends on the body specified. The version Olds called the Light Delivery Wagon has side and rear windows, although they’re fixed in place and therefore still don’t need adapter kits:
https://live.staticflickr.com/5527/14363703543_9de25a3621_b.jpg
Reminds me of old elevator operator controls.
Do they have an option that makes them ding as the go up and down? How about an indicator dial?