China’s BYD Seagull is a ridiculously hot seller, in part, because it costs less than $10,000! Called the Dolphin Mini in other export markets, including Mexico, the version I drove is the larger, more sophisticated European version called the BYD Dolphin Surf. And while the subcompact electric hatchback I piloted cost three times what a Seagull costs in China, I enjoyed it and found it to be a great value. Here’s why.
BYD launched the Seagull on the Chinese market in 2023. Today, it is the best-selling BYD model in China. Each month, BYD sells about 34,000 units, so it is a very important car for the Shenzhen-based automaker.
On May 21, BYD launched the Dolphin Surf simultaneously in various European markets, including Germany, Spain, and the Netherlands. On that day, BYD invited me to a media event and a test drive. BYD made various changes to get the Dolphin Surf ready for Europe—the bumpers are a bit bigger, and the suspension has been stiffened.
Test driving the BYD Dolphin Surf
The Dolphin Surf is an anomaly in BYD’s lineup. The other BYD cars look good, but also a bit sleepy, especially compared to the bold designs of other Chinese carmakers.
The Dolphin Surf, however, is a sharp-looking little thing. It has small LED headlights that look kind of angry, but in a nice way. It has a steeply raked windshield, strong creases along the sides and hood, blacked-out pillars for a floating roof effect, and a stubby rear end with a sporty roof spoiler and a tiny rear window.
The Dolphin Surf is a subcompact car, at only 157 inches long, with a 94.5-inch wheelbase. Curb weight, depending on battery and motor, ranges from 2,798 to 3,009 pounds. My test car was the top-spec BYD Dolphin Surf Comfort, painted in lime great.
This is the standard color, which is cool. Boring colors like black and white cost €650 more [Ed Note: I love this. -DT]. Sadly, the interior is always done in black and gray, which is as exciting as it sounds. BYD doesn’t offer any other interior color combinations.
I drove the BYD Dolphin Surf in the Netherlands, where BYD has its European headquarters (but it announced last week that it will move its HQ to Hungary). Specifically, I drove from the heart of the port city of Rotterdam to Schipluiden, a picturesque village surrounded by meadows and greenhouses, where the locals like to go cycling and grumble about each other’s gardens. The route went through the city, over the highway, and along B-roads.
Speedy
The BYD Dolphin Surf is a front-wheel-drive car based on BYD’s E-Platform 3.0. In the Comfort model, the output of the electric motor is 154 hp and 162 ft-lbs. That’s quite a lot of torque for such a small car—pedal to the metal, and off it goes.
Merging on the highway and overtaking was surprisingly easy—addictive, even. I started overtaking other cars just for the fun of it. I hadn’t expected this—neither did other road users, left wondering about the little yellow car that left them in the dust. BYD says it’ll do 0–62 mph in 9.1 seconds, and the top speed is 150 km/h (93 mph). I didn’t do a timed test, but I believe those numbers are about right, even if they don’t communicate how agile the BYD feels.
The Dolphin Surf handles well for a small EV. I drove it rally-style over the typical narrow canal-side roads in the Schipluiden area, with bridges over the canals and into the villages. Again, surprisingly sporty.
BYD says it has stiffened the suspension for European markets, where folks like a stiff chassis, which has worked very well. I drove a Seagull in China two years ago, and there, the suspension is tuned more for comfort. However, while the stiffer suspension is great for spirited driving on B-roads and for overtaking trucks, it’s less enjoyable on older highways, where the road imperfections are a bit too noticeable.
Range & Charging
The Dolphin Surf Comfort has a 43.2 kWh Blade LFP battery. The platform features Cell-to-Body (CTB) technology, where the battery pack is fully integrated into the chassis floor. According to BYD, the car has a combined WLTP range of 310 kilometers (193 mi) and a combined electricity consumption of 16 kWh/100 kilometers (3.9 mi/kWh).
During my test drive, I achieved an average consumption of 13.9 kWh/50 kilometers (2.2 mi/kWh). Weirdly, that’s the best I could measure, because the consumption meter in the car only looks back 50 km, instead of 100, which is the common standard. The max DC charging speed is 85 kW; the 10–80% charging time is 30 minutes, and 30–80% takes 22 minutes. AC charging takes five hours with a max speed of 11 kW.
Interior
The interior color may be a little boring, but the quality is top-notch for the segment. Everything is well put together, and the materials look and feel very nice. There is some hard plastic, but only in less visible places like the door bins and storage compartments.
The car has faux-leather seats that are a tad too flat, with integrated headrests. Many Chinese automakers fit such headrests to save costs, but for taller drivers in Europe it could be a deal-breaker.
The steering wheel is relatively large—I like that a lot. I’m not a fan of the tiny-wheel trend in China.
The Main Screen
Every Dolphin Surf comes with a 10.1-inch touchscreen. The screen has a cool feature: With a click on the screen or a button on the steering wheel, it rotates from landscape mode to portrait mode, and back — similar to a Fisker Ocean.
It’s nice to fool around with once or twice, and from then on, you may never use it again. The screen has a wide bezel, which looks a tad old-school. The same goes for the staid graphics—nothing fun going on. BYD is more boring in this regard than, for example, Dongfeng or Smart. However, the screen is responsive, quick, and easy to navigate. Wireless Apple CarPlay, Android Auto, and Spotify come standard. The built-in “Hey BYD” voice assistant has a soothing female voice and proved genuinely helpful for adjusting settings like climate and audio volume.
Oddly, the system is English-only, which means it struggles with Dutch place names and radio station names. BYD said it will fix this soon via an OTA update. That’s nice, I guess, but why didn’t BYD fix it before launch? The navigation map appeared to be incomplete. Funnily, for example, it didn’t know the restaurant where BYD held the media event, so I had to use Apple Maps via Apple CarPlay to get back there.
A 7-inch digital cluster behind the wheel displays essentials like range and speed in a retro-digital font with colorful graphics. The BYD is further equipped with a 4-speaker audio system, DAB radio, a WiFi hotspot, and a 15-watt mobile phone charger.
A nice design detail is the metal-finished button panel below the screen, which includes the drive selector on the left, the fan speed, and a large volume knob.
Four Seats Only
The Dolphin Surf is classified as a four-seat car, but the rear compartment is rather spacious—I could easily sit behind myself. My kids would easily fit in there as well, even for a longer journey, but they might get bored because BYD didn’t put any USB ports in the back, so when the Nintendo’s battery dies, it’s game over.
Fortunately, at the front, the car has USB ports and a 12V socket. Interestingly, it also has a slot for an SD card. It’s been a long time since I’ve seen one of those — nobody uses SD cards anymore, neither in Europe nor in China.
The luggage space is not very big—it holds 10.9 cubic feet, or 36.6 cubic feet with the rear seats folded down. The space is just large enough for one suitcase or some groceries. The tailgate is quite narrow with a high loading sill, so getting heavy stuff in isn’t easy. The Dolphin Surf doesn’t have a frunk.
Safety
The Dolphin Surf is a Chinese car, so it’s loaded with sensors and driving-assistance systems, including ACC with Stop & Go, AEB, DDW, ELKA, FCW, and LDA. The passive safety set is impressive as well. It comes as standard with a total of six airbags—driver and front passenger, side curtain airbags, and side airbags in the front seats.
Price and Competition
The top-spec Dolphin Surf Comfort that I drove starts at €26,690 ($30.2K). But you can get one for much less.
The base model is called the Dolphin Surf Active—it has 88 hp/175 Nm and a 30 kWh battery, and sells for €22,990 ($26K) — range is 137 miles on the WLTP cycle. The best choice is probably the model in the middle, the Dolphin Surf Boost, for €24,990 (~$28K). It has the 88 hp motor combined with the larger 43.2 kWh battery, and it offers about 300 km of WLTP range.
The BYD seems like a good deal—lots of car for the money—but the subcompact EV segment is getting ever more crowded in Europe. Funnily enough, most of the competition is Chinese or China-made, including the Dongfeng Box, the Leapmotor T3, and the Dacia Spring. Other competitors are the Citroën ë-C3, the Fiat Grande Panda Electric, and the Hyundai Inster.
I like how the Dolphin Surf drives and how it looks, and it has a decent price. It would be a perfect commuter machine, and fine for short weekend trips. In short, it would be a super second car. So yes, I would buy one if I ever needed an extra car. As a main or only car, its range and space are just a bit too limited for my driving style and lifestyle. But I’m sure many people would disagree, and I bet BYD will sell quite a lot of Dolphin Surf hatchbacks in the Netherlands and throughout Europe.
I know you probably weren’t hypermiling this thing but 2.2 miles/kwh is abysmal economy for such a small city car. I easily got 3.5 in a BMW iX which is a 500hp behemoth by comparison.
Just for context, 2.2 miles/kwh means less than 100 miles of useable range on this thing, and that’s with the big battery! The smaller battery option would net you 66 miles.
I don’t think I agree there’s any value here. We’re back to golf-cart levels of useability here. At the $10k Chinese price, the value is there.
It’s 8 inches shorter than a Kia Soul. I know it’s gas-only but I can get into a Soul for $20,490. One can buy a lot of gas with $10K.
What was the reviewer doing to get an average electricity usage of 2.2mi/kWh?
That’s truly awful. A friend of mine gets an average of over 4mi/kWh in an Ioniq 5, and that’s not a small car.
It’s rather underwhelming. A $30k car with 150 mile range is pretty unimpressive. You can buy a Nissan Leaf with similar range for ~$28k?
And 2.2 mile/kwh is downright horrible. A Tesla Model3, or Hyundai Ioniq6 both get 4 mile/kwh.
If only the Dutch would finally adopt English, officially.
“Adopt” is certainly a choice of adjectives for what the Dutch do, lol.
It looks like it fits in better then I expected but tall Europeans don’t fit in it. Allegedly they have some introductory deal for 19,990 euro. At the regular prices it’s probably a non starter. The id.2 or whatever they will call it will probably suck up that market. If they could get it under 14,000 euro then maybe. I think with Bev we have to admit different regions and different people need different things. With ice it was easy to make a one size fits most. I don’t doubt the Chinese are coming just like the Japanese did. It’s possible we are looking at 1962 Toyota just of the Bev age. The Chinese were laughing at the slate truck because it’s so stripped down and alot of Americans will laugh at the dolphin for being so small and more of a city car. BYD definitely has its sights on the world. With its virtual integration, mega factory city, and growing fleet of roro. I don’t know if they can get a real foot hold in Europe or the US especially without local production but the less developed world they are coming for.
Fawning coverage of another Chinese car by the author, but never any coverage of the forced labor of Chinese Uyghurs that benefits auto manufacturers including BYD. https://www.campaignasia.com/article/major-auto-brands-linked-to-forced-labour-in-uyghur-region/482607
According to your link:
Nothing about BYD though. Also, the report hilariously assumes all Uyghur factory workers to be ‘forced labor’. I guess they are supposed to be destitute and unemployed.
Human Rights Watch: https://www.hrw.org/news/2024/02/01/china-carmakers-implicated-uyghur-forced-labor
According to your link:
So pretty much all car makers are guilty of using Uyghur forced labor if these breathless hysterical allegations are right.
It’s Human Right Watch saying this. It’s obviously not breathless and hysterical if you’re a Uyghur in China. Not a good look to casually dismiss victims of a communist regime.
World history shows us that communism is an evil system that crushes people. In the case of China, literally, as in the Tiananmen Square massacre in 1989, where students were crushed by tanks because the communist leaders didn’t like their words the students were saying. Have some compassion for those that don’t live in a system where they can speak freely, like you and I can.
Have a good day.
China hasn’t been ‘communist’ for 40+ years now. And the reports of Uyghur slave labors are completely unproven allegations made by very partisan people. There is no evidence for any of it. They just assume any Uyghur working in a factory, must be forced to work there.
BTW the standard story of the Tiananmen Square massacre has already been debunked by Wikileaks:
https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/89BEIJING18828_a.html
The issue with China is that you have a paranoid, retrograde government who is not used to answering questions and not used to having to explain themselves. There is a paucity of news and verifiable facts out of China. A lot of western media has been filling this vacuum with their own lurid fantasies.
For all the folks who commented negatively about this car, I have a simple question. If your negative comments are accurate/true/etc., why do countries put such large tariffs on these cars? If they are truly as bad as indicated, I would think tariffs would be unnecessary.
If I recall correctly, we imported the Yugo some years ago, a truly awful car.
Tariffs were unnecessary, the car just died on its own.
Why would we need protectionism from an awful product?
The Yugo could not be subsidized indefinitely by an enemy government to break our auto industry (as the CCP has done in many other industries)
I mean, president tariff recently decided an island of penguins needed tariffs – so I’m not sure this explanation carries much water at the moment.
I dont like tariffs at all, but the USA has been getting screwed for decades by other countries charging us. They’re slowly coming around now that they’re getting a taste of their own medicine. Plus, tariffs are based on the wholesale price anyway, which means a 25% Tariff actually only costs about 15% retail. I’m glad we finally have a president that tries to fix things.
welp, good luck with that.
GM just announced that they are building a plant to produce all of their new V8. They’re spending over $800 million and they’ll be hiring a lot of new employees… in New York! Like I said, I don’t like tariffs, but it appears to be working.
Did you fall for Trump’s ‘retaliatory tariff’ bullsh*t when he showed the chart of each country and their supposed tariffs on American goods? They came up with those numbers based on trade deficits. They are NOT foreign tariffs. And trade deficits doesn’t mean we are somehow ‘losing’. You have a trade deficit with the gardener you hired to mow your lawn. Does that mean the gardener is ‘taking advantage’ of you or ripping you off? Nope. It just means you have better things to do with your time than pulling crabgrass out of your lawn.
To me this seems like the Mitsubishi Mirage where a little more money will get you a significantly better car. Bonus points for being relatively light, but with that being said the best redeeming factor is that the boring colors cost more. This should be the standard everywhere lol.
I don’t want to be overly pessimistic, but I am struggling to see anything worth getting excited over. It mostly seems like an amalgamation of designs and features taken from other automakers (not that such theft is in anyway new even with domestic automakers) and then delivered in a fun color at a price point that is solidly unremarkable. The Chinese market has these subsidized on the price to make them competitive, but without that price differentiator in other markets there isn’t really a stand-out feature (or gimmick), and certainly nothing revolutionary.
Then again, everything I just mentioned has been the case for every Chinese vehicle I have encountered in my travels abroad, so I was going into this article expecting to be disappointed (with the car, not with Tycho’s writing).
I agree. This review made me glad to be in the USA – land of cheap gas and cheaper horsepower. Yes, I agree that cleaner transportation is a good thing. But calling this fast? And roomy?
I own a shitty old ICE hatchback. It does 0-60 in 8.1 (nearly a second faster than the Dolphin Surf). It also has 5 seats and a larger trunk, despite being a tiny subcompact by USA standards.
It’s cool that BYD exists and is offering inexpensive, efficient transportation. But man, I wouldn’t call this car either fast or spacious.
I don’t think the styling is derivative here. Although I agree that there is nothing exciting about this Dolphin at this price point. The BYD Seal is the 8th wonder of the world at $10,000. At $30,000 the BYD Dolphin is nothing to write home about. They priced themselves out of the market (or maybe this is the ‘price floor’ deal that China signed with the EU).
Mileage works a little differently in Europe – the 193mi range will get you from Schipluiden to anywhere in the Netherlands, most of Belgium, some of France, and even a little bit into the UK if you take the Dunquerque ferry.
A couple weeks ago I made a comment here that ruffled some feathers about the editorial voice of the site being biased toward Chinese cars.
Unfortunately, I’m going to need to double down after reading this. Nothing about this car seems any more impressive than a *9* year old GM product, from the price, to the range, to the equipment, to the driving performance, and yet here we have another glowing review.
If a 150 mile range hatchback that cost over $30,000 with malfunctioning infotainment was put on sale from a legacy automaker, it would be savaged, and rightly so.
I think I remember what comment you are talking about and I agreed with it then and agree with it now. Also I agree with you and others here how the hell is this car any different then the Chevy Bolt of years past or even a Nissan Leaf?
Oh it’s different. The Chevy Bolt – even the first gen – had more range, faster acceleration, and more interior space. In other words I wholeheartedly agree with you. This sounds like the electric version of a Mitsubishi Mirage. Except with the Mirage I was always glad it existed as a valid option for people who need inexpensive personal transportation.
For the same price as this car, you could buy a lightly used late-model Mirage and have $18,000 left over to pay for gas and repairs.
I have a Bolt, I like my Bolt – but the Bolt was never this cheap. It left production in 2023 at $27,500 MSRP + destination + taxes. In Europe prices are quoted with VAT and taxes included. NL VAT for EVs is 16%.
To put it in context when the Bolt launched in the NL it started at around €45K. For more modern competion the slightly larger Citroen eC3 starts at about €23K but is a bit more bare bones, the Renault 5 a bit more again.
This clearly wouldn’t do well in the US but it’s very competitive here in Europe. Here in the UK it’s priced right inbetween the dirt cheap Dacia Spring and the larger B class superminis. The Europeans won’t have a direct answer until Renault brings out the new Twingo.
Before I could have an opinion on your comment, I had to go check if either the Bolt or the Leaf were sold in Holland. But according to the internets, both were sold there, and the Leaf seems to have done ok. At which point, yes, I’m curious how this compares to the previous Leaf and Bolt. What makes it better? What makes it a better option than buying a used Bolt or Leaf, etc.?
The Lead was sold in the Netherlands from 2018 until 2024. It was priced at €34.200-€36.890 with a 270 km WLTP range. In early 2025, just before it was cancelled, Nissan dumped the remaining dealer-lot cars for €26.367. The Bolt was not sold in the Netherlands, I think. Greetings!
Thank you for responding. Regarding the Leaf then, it would be 10-15% more expensive (if it were still on sale today) at least, compared to this BYD? Is that correct?
That in itself is interesting and demonstrates how little I really understand actual pricing in foreign markets.
Have you driven a late production year Leaf? If so, do you think it provided any extra value for that increase in price? Or is the BYD equal at a lower price, or even superior?
The Bolt was sold in Europe as the Opel Ampera-e. It looks like it was sold in The Netherlands for around €34,000, but only for the first generation. Doubt 2nd gen Bolts were ever sold in any volume in Europe.
The companies that pony up for the press trips tend to get the coverage…and I would assume there’s a pretty big media blitz on right now by these Chinese companies to try to get western market share or soften opinion for NA access.
I think Autopian is one of the more neutral sites out there, but there’s definitely an incentive to give good reviews for anyone in media who love the free trips/food/booze circuit and want to keep getting invites. Generally you’re not going to read too much negative news about a new car, unless it’s to bash the outgoing model, or it’s a manufacturer that doesn’t do press junkets (probably why a site like Jalopnik feels free to post an anti-Tesla story every hour…they’d never do that if they were part of the circuit).
I understand that, and have opined publicly that I would pay a higher membership price if the site moved away from the press trip type reviews.
This I think goes beyond that. A Western brand putting this car on sale would not get this coverage, here or anywhere.
I imagine the membership price would have to be significantly higher for that type of model to work…and I’m not sure there’s anyone who’s pulled that off long-term. It’s hard (impossible?) to break that quid pro quo relationship in the industry and survive financially.
Even if the reviewer has honest intentions, it’s best to go into every review with the clear understanding that every new car review has some level of soft (or not so) marketing involved.
I would be interested in the admins/editors to comment on this issue. I agree overall.
Hi! Free trips/food/booze? Hmm, no, not really. I drove to the event in my own car in my own time. BYD gave me a sandwich and paid for the parking fee. I drove the Dolphin Surf alone, without a minder. I could drive wherever I wanted to. I liked it, but it wasn’t perfect, just as described in the article. Greetings!
Thank you for this clarification: full disclosure is important.
As I have enjoyed your articles, I was happy to hear that you were invited as I feel you deserve that recognition. That said, I wonder if you have any opinion on QC within the Chinese car industry. With reports of tofu dregs construction widespread, this looms large for such a big purchase.
ie: while I bemoan the lack of a < $20k car in the US, I’m quite wary of reporting that states airbags don’t go off—or cars self-immolating. Without a free press on the mainland, it’s tough to judge how widespread these problems are for someone outside the Great Firewall.
You and I agree on more things than not (I think, lol) regarding cars, anyway, but I just don’t see the gripe. You’ve made it quite clear that you don’t want anything China to ever pass customs, and I am ok with that idea.
However, who cares if they write something about some “white bread” Chinese car that wouldn’t sell here in any volume?
To me, I’ll read something like this in the vein of a review of a new Fruit-Roll-Ups flavor. I think that they are gross, and wouldn’t buy a package even if they claim it tastes like a Sabrina Carpenter kiss. (Wait, I’m too old for that reference. Let’s go with Paulina Poriskova in her prime, kiss. lol) I still think they are nasty.
I just wouldn’t care one way or the other about that Fruit-Roll-Up. Content is content in this regard. That’s about as far as I’d care. Maybe that’s just me…
I think this is a fair question.
The answer is that I pay actual money for this site, and prefer it to be even-handed and honest in its articles.
For most articles, that hasn’t been a concern. When it comes to Chinese cars, I don’t think the coverage has been fair or balanced. Which, fine, every site has its biases and blind spots. I don’t complain about the site’s fetish for old and unreliable vehicles.
In the case of Chinese cars though, I think it’s a bigger deal. China really is our enemy, really does wish us ill, really would destroy our industry root and branch if we let them, and really does need good publicity in this country to overcome (well-founded) skepticism. I’d simply prefer a site that I pay for to not provide that good publicity.
I’d like some evidence-based evaluation of the lofty claims published by Chinese automakers, I’d like some skepticism of the idea that Chinese cars are desirable and inevitable here, I’d like some fair-minded reviews, including trashing a car when it’s bad. Like this one seems to be.
The feelings about China are certainly valid, absolutely. All I’m trying to convey is…when you write this:
“The answer is that I pay actual money for this site, and prefer it to be even-handed and honest in its articles.”
It reminds me a lot of when I was working in Passenger on the railroad and a passenger was being shitty, or refusing to pay, (or asking to adjust the temperature in the car) and when I had to get involved, the reply would inevitably be “MY TAXES PAY YOUR SALARY!!!” I would calmly respond that I also pay taxes, and (depending on the shithead) sometimes more than they did towards my salary, so they aren’t my boss.
It’s fantastic you are a member and care as much as you do, it is!
Not being shitty at all, just sayin’… Heck, I shouldn’t have even said anything, lol. Have a good one 🙂
No offense taken. It was a thought provoking question, which I appreciate.
EU has a 20-40% tariff on Chinese EV, plus NL has a 21% VAT on all vehicles, so there’s that.
The list price includes both. The GM Bolt price mentioned in these posts includes neither.
Does the Bolt price include slave labor to assemble it as well?
I mean… sure. Industrial robots technically are slaves.
nah, don’t do that. You know what he’s saying.
I’m sorry, are you comparing industrial equipment to human beings with feelings, emotions, hopes, dreams, and souls?
As someone who’s been practicing engineering for the past 25 years, I have none of the above.
Do you eat food? A lot of your mass market food brands use prison labor here in the US:
https://apnews.com/article/prison-to-plate-inmate-labor-investigation-c6f0eb4747963283316e494eadf08c4e
Do you eat fruits and vegetables? Most of these are harvested by migrant farm workers. These farm workers are routinely abused by the employers even when they have legal temp-worker status. Your Trump administration just took away their heat and water break too:
https://capitalandmain.com/trump-memo-halts-federal-rulemaking-indefinitely-suspends-oshas-national-heat-standard
Does acknowledging any of that make Chinese slave labor more palatable?
Does every comment I make about not wanting Chinese cars here need to be preceded by an apology for everything else bad everywhere under the sun?
The point is it is a selective outrage over something rather speculative, while ignoring actual well-proven outrages happening right under our noses and affecting our very food supply.
This is a car site.
My outrage is not “selective” any more than it needs to be to fit within the bounds of typical discourse on a car site.
If the allegations in your post are true, it’s awful and I condemn those responsible.
I also condemn Chinese automakers using slave labor to build their cars. More than one thing can be true or held in the mind at once. Have a nice night.
We can’t cast aspersion on the human rights records of other countries while ignoring our own (and assuming you’re American like me).
The Hyundai plant in Alabama coercing refugee child labor from kids as young as 12 on threat of deportation. We can’t claim the high ground here.
There might be some small differences in how the US and Chinese governments handle such allegations when they arise.
https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/us-labor-department-sues-hyundai-over-us-child-labor-court-filing-2024-05-30/
The point isn’t that bad things only happen in China, it’s that this particular bad thing happens with the knowledge and blessing of its ruling party.
NL tax on an EV is only 16% – EVs get a discount. In general I look at the price in euro to get a price similar to to MSRP in the USA.
As to tariffs – the US rate is currently 100% for Chinese EVs – no no savings there.
Well, I kind of like it too, but $30K (or $26K for the base, quite-short-range-in-2025 version) seems like a bit much for what it is, especially vs. what similar Dolphins sell for in China. Has the car been changed that significantly vs. the domestic Chinese-market car in order to pass European/NCAP crash tests or something? If so, that might explain some of the price increase… would it then be likely to be sellable in the U.S. as-is? Not that I expect that to happen any time soon of course.
The hatch opening could be larger in both height and width, but I suppose that would make the body less stiff/safe in a serious collision. The interior seems fine, though I could of course do without the portrait/landscape rotating center display: just pick one and save the cost. Also, it wouldn’t presumably cost too much to liven up/modernize the GUI, while retaining the responsiveness of the infotainment system hardware itself.
Major kudos for actual colors too of course. If the interiors are always going to be black/grey (to keep costs down vs. options for colored/other interior schemes) then it would be nice if they integrated some body-colored painted bits into the interior on the dash, center console, and/or door cards. Couldn’t add that much to the cost if done with some restraint.
Overall: a nice car, but again: why so MUCH more expensive than it is in China? If they’ve made it a safer car for the European market that’s great, but I’d like to know exactly HOW, in an effort to rationalize the cost. $30K isn’t chicken feed, and Renault, Citroen, etc… already make some very decent small EVs in that approximate price range, so the Dolphin ought to provide some benefit (lower cost, for example) if it wants to be an attractive alternative in this crowded market segment.
A big answer is they’re taking a lower profit margin on the home market and marking it up more for export, because Europeans are accustomed to paying more for cars than Chinese customers and will still see the higher price as a deal
Did the same almost one year ago (on the same day an adjacent BYD showroom burnt down lol), and it felt too numb for my tastes, like it was completely devoid of that small car joy. To be fair, it was one of the cheapest highway-capable EVs in China back then (reasonable DC-charge speeds, liquid-cooled battery), and apart from driving dynamics it completely blows my proto-Dacia Spring out of the water, interior quality + infotainment + safety + powertrain + performance etc. Still prefer my car 🙂 Though I certainly wouldn’t say no to one of these neo-Seagulls.
P.S. Would like to hear your thoughts on the Dacia Spring! IIRC all the electric Kwid siblings share their suspension engineer with the Alpine A110, and after testing an Wuling Mini and the Changan Lumin it really shows; in terms of driving dynamics the e-Kwids blow all the Chinese A-segment EVs out of the water, supple enough for crap roads, decent composure on twisty sections and stable crusing at 110kmh (with a 900kg chassis no less)
I’m not saying that China isn’t leading on EV – but there’s an awful lot of noise about Chinese EV’s, yet not a lot of details as to what makes them so much better.
Software? Sure, I’m guessing it’s not too difficult to be better than the traditional OEMs.
Charging speed / battery tech – no doubt in some cases they have advantages. In this case, not so much.
Price, generally yes – however this example doesn’t seem to be all that impressive.
I have no doubt that all the crazy competition in that market is leading to legit advantages for the Chinese OEMs, but the way the media covers things you’d think it would be horses vs flying cars. Maybe that’s the case, I just haven’t seen enough specifics to back it up.
Specific to this vehicle…yeah, not impressed at all. Looks like a bolt, basically is spec’d less than a bolt…and basically priced like a bolt.
It reminds me of the Cold War with the Soviets where every self claim about every weapon they developed seemed to be taken as a panicked call to develop ever-more-advanced weapons to counter what was surely wonder tech that would throw the whole MAD policy into the (Tesla Cyber)Dumpster. This was in spite of their comparatively tiny economy, lack of societal innovation (like modern China, they’re better at stealing than they were innovating), and far more rampant corruption. Ukraine has demonstrated not only the persistent medieval mindset of Russia, but how much of its tech was BS. Of course, with the Soviets, the MIC had a vested interest in helping sell the Russian claims so that fear would assure their huge contracts kept rolling in. The consumer car market is a totally different thing, though, so I’m not sure if it’s an attempt to drive fear into the US and EU automakers to be better prepared to fight them off or a call to governments to take action or just being easily impressed by new and flashy gimmick features (this car obviously exempted from that last one, but there are others with the crab-walk features or whatever other nonsense that seem to get talked up a lot more than they deserve) while the longevity, safety, and quality are all wide open questions. Not to say I think we should ignore them or not take them seriously (dismissiveness would be worse), but the reviews of Chinese products often seem to come across as a bit short-breathed.
Folks comparing this to the Bolt EV are a little off. The Bolt is another size up from this, has a 200hp motor, 0-60 in 6.5 seconds, 250 miles of real range, and gets well over 3 miles/kWh, usually around 4 miles/kWh, and that’s from 8 years ago.
It was also sold at a loss and qualified for the $7500 credit, and in the end they were practically giving them away to offload them after the battery recalls so that’s why so cheap.
Truly compare this to the current Equinox EV, for around the same price that’s definitely a size up, more power, more room, better range. Yes the cheapest Dolphin is way cheaper but also way less range/power/etc.
NL has a VAT rate of 21%, which is included in the list price.
When I used to get European car magazines I poured over the price lists of cars available there. Prices, even after factoring in VAT, are generally higher in Europe.
One decent rough guideline is to take the price in Euro, convert to USD at 1:1 rate, then take out the VAT. The US list price would be in that ballpark, and often a tad lower still.
It’d be pointless to compare EU and US car prices otherwise.
“Interestingly, it also has a slot for an SD card. It’s been a long time since I’ve seen one of those — nobody uses SD cards anymore, neither in Europe nor in China.”
Apparently they still use SD cards in Japan. My 2017 Mazda, and even the more modern ones, store SATNAV data on an SD card. If you don’t have/want SATNAV, you can put music on an SD card and the system will read it.
Dude, the still use fax machines in Japan. Talk about irony.
In the US, both the medical and legal professions still rely on FAX machines. They’re considered “more secure” because they’re not “on the Internet”. Except for the fact that most “landlines” use VOIP, so they are indeed on the Internet 🙂
My in-law absolutely demands that we keep a landline in our home, in case there’s another 9/11 and the cell service is disrupted.
We’ve been paying $30 a month to add that thing onto our Verizon FIOS service for 10+ years, just to keep them happy.
Absolutely no one calls us through the land line. Not even the in-laws.
Send your MIL the bill, since it’s her demand 🙂
Japan has been a technological backwater for decades.
The more that I think about this, the more I think SD, USB-A, and USB-C need to be universal. If you have a music collection that you want to leave semi-permanently in the vehicle, an SD card is a lot less obtrusive than a thumb drive. I’ve never had a car with an SD slot, but my parents’ 2013 Q5 has a couple of them (and zero USB).
I also think DVD/CD player slots are small and cheap enough that every car should include them. That physical format existed for about 4 decades, so the sheer amount of media out there in the world should make that obvious (even if current trends tell you something is dying off, that doesn’t usually account for what’s already been purchased.)
I’ve got a 2022 CX-30 Turbo and it still uses the SD card for navigation data. It’s funny that since I have the base Turbo trim, Nav was an option for $400, but all CX-30’s have the GPS hardware built in, so it’s a $400 SD card, which I bought a generic knockoff on Amazon for about $35 and it works. Have yet to actually use the OEM navigation since I use carplay for everything, but it pulls speed limit data and displays it in the gauge cluster, which is EASILY worth the money spent since it’s saved me from at least one possible speeding ticket.
Who was it who said “Japan has been living in the year 2000 since 1980?”
In the NL, do these prices include all taxes, or are there more added?
The reason I ask is that I had always heard Dutch vehicle taxes were among the highest in the world, and I wasn’t sure if that was “VAT inclusive” or if the vehicle taxes were added later, as they are in the US.
All taxes are included.
The base model is still 26k and has a smaller battery? 137 miles on WLTP means EPA range will be double digits and real world will be even less – DOA. Charging is slow too.
Gotta be honest, I was expecting more from the supposed land of magical EVs
This is a soapbox I’ve been on for a little while, but pretty much every super cheap Chinese market EV could not be sold in the US for anywhere near it’s chinese price, and almost universally could not be sold at all because they cannot pass the crash regulations in the US. Even the seagull went under massive surgery under the skin to become the Dolphin. They may look similar, but look up the crash tests for the Dolphin and compare them to the Chinese market Seagull. The Euro market Dolphin does well in Euro NCAP tests, and the Seagull is shown to be woefully dangerous even by lax Chinese standards. Saying “XYZ car would sell great at that price in the US” is a pointless statement, because it wouldn’t be allowed to be sold here at all.
You’re 100% correct, which is why pretty much all of the “look at these awesome Chinese EVs” articles are good for entertainment value only. I do enjoy looking at the zany design choices and sheer quantity of different brands.
Anytime they show up in countries with actual regulations and no massive direct subsidies on the demand side, my reaction has been “this is your king?”
The fact that the Dolphin kept the weight under 3,000 lbs and passed these safety tests is very encouraging, IMO.
GM has an opportunity to make a smaller, more streamlined, bolt-like car with a smaller battery than the bolt, less mass than the bolt, at a Dolphin-like or less price point, and Dolphin-like safety.
The Seagull has like 2/3 the CdA of the bolt. GM was once a pioneer with the EV1 regarding vehicle platform efficiency, and it currently has a chance to get ahead of byd before they get any offerings into the USA.
I doubt they will act. Most people are too broke to afford a $30k EV, and the Chinese are going to figure out how to get one into the USA at under $20k.
Compared to my Model 3 RWD, the specs aren’t word class either. I am averaging 4.2 miles/kwh, get ~170kw DC fast charging speed but have a similar 20-80% charging time. By Tesla standards, my car is fairly meh. Mine was $31k after the tax credit and discounts.
These Chinese EVs are somewhere between compliance EV specs and normal EVs. If they could be sold stateside for under $20k without incentives, we would start seeing them everywhere the charging infrastructure is built out.
It isn’t quite as cheap as I expected it to be. If it were brought here it seems like it would compete quite directly with the upcoming Chevy Bolt. Maybe slightly less cost but also less range. Not sure how the size would compare.
If the first gen bolt is any indication, the bolt will be a greatly more massive and less aerodynamically efficient design. Hopefully I’m wrong.
The Bolt may be less efficient but I don’t think that matters. The car buying public only cares about EV efficiency indirectly, ie if it effects overall purchase price by allowing a smaller battery. If you have 2 vehicles that both cost 26k and both get 250 miles of range, I think most would look at being bigger as a plus, not a minus.
It matters if you want to get a cheaper sub-$20k car to market that can still meet NHTSA standards. Reducing a bolt’s battery size by half and designing a car efficient enough to get the same range as the bolt with this smaller battery will save thousands of dollars on the production cost.
Profit margins will be narrow thin and cannibalize sales of more expensive vehicles.
I mean you’ll spend less on the battery but it would be too low volume to realize any economies of scale, at least in the US. If you had a vehicle with the form factor of an EV1 that got 200 miles of range, it would flop, even at 15k-20k.
It doesn’t have to have the EV1’s form factor to get the desired efficiency.
Consider the GM Precept, GM Ultralite, Mercedes bionic, Dodge Intrepid ESX2, GAC Eno 146, Ford Probe IV, Mercedes Vision EQXX concept, and many others with a sub 0.20 Cd as a basis. All of which seat 4 or more.
It’s significantly smaller than the previous (and presumably upcoming) Bolt. BYD vs Bolt dimensions, respectively, are 157 vs 163in Length, 67.7 vs 69.5in Width, and 62.6 vs 63.5in Height, the 6″ in length do quite a bit for the size class, and the Bolt has 6.5 and 16 more cubic feet of cargo space than the BYD with the seats up/down. Not to mention less power and range than the previous Bolt. Yes “300mi WLTP” range with the big pack, but WLTP is far off EPA, which itself is optimistic, which puts the dolphins best case real-world American range in the low-mid 200 range, all for around the likely pricing of a new gen-Bolt.
Wait 26K for the base model? The chevy bolt started at 27K and was better in every way.
With all the hype of these Chinese EVs, I’d expected something way cheaper.
It may be priced to subsidize the domestic Chinese market further, since Europeans have more money, and no real competition to this car.
The reality is these super-cheap and tiny Chinese EVs are only priced as low as they are because of Chinese subsidies, and the fact that they are not capable of being sold in more mature markets. The crash tests for the BYD Seagull, the Dolphins Chinese market sibling, is woefully dangerous, and extremely flimsy. The Chassis these tiny and cheap cars are built on use low-cost materials and cheaper steel, with less engineering going into crash safety, so to make it compliant with US/Euro NCAP crash regs, requires a lot of redesigning and higher production costs. This has knock on effects like what appears to be a narrower trunk opening than it’s Chinese equivalent, less cargo space, etc. It’s nuanced yes, but I get frustrated when people blindly compare Chinese market cheap and tiny EVs to US market products, because they are not comparable.
Here’s a Chinese market Seagull crash test for reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyPOXEnJjKY
yikes.
but at least it’s more efficient, right toecutter?
It’s in all likelihood still safer than the cars of 30 years ago. I’ve seen crash test images of 2000s era cars where a crash like that would have taken the passenger’s head off!
Of course, I have something even less safe: a Triumph GT6.
still safer than 30 year old cars? I should hope so.
But I doubt it because this thing doesn’t have the mass of a 30 year old car to help it out.
Small AND flimsy not a good combo
Safer than 30 year old cars doesn’t cut it. Anything sold in the USA must meet current regulations. So that means not only meeting crash standards but also automatic emergency braking and other recent safety improvements
This is the Chevy Bolt from China basically. Almost there but not quite yet, hopefully the price reflects that. I saw them all over the place in Mexico, they fit pretty well on the small streets, like a moped.
The bolt is a greatly less efficient design that needs more battery and more expense to do the same thing. Something designed like the Seagull will have much smaller margins, and that is probably why GM made the bolt the way it did.
A buddy of mine has the Bolt. He loves it and it has 250+ mile range. This has much less range and does worse in miles per Kwh. I have to say at this point I don’t know why anyone would buy this over a Bolt or Leaf.
How you drive it makes a massive difference. Cruising down the highway at a steady pace in an EV vs hooning it can easily yield a 5x difference in consumption. 2.2 mi/kWh seems awfully low efficiency for a car this size and slipperiness, almost on the order of a massive 7,000 lb EV truck.
Agreed about the driving style and efficiency. I get over 4 mi/kWh on average with a much larger EV than this BYD and still over 3mi/kWh at 70mph on the highway. The Bolt’s battery is 65 kWh which is up to 50% larger than this BYD. I don’t understand why this BYD is a great deal since a 2023 Bolt was only about $30,000 new which seems like a much better deal. Bigger battery, bigger car, more range.
Drag coefficient of 0.22, and 2,700 lbs. I didn’t know the Cd was so low 2 years ago. I can see why it is so slippery. Notice the smaller size(less frontal area), lack of a massive grille, and normal-sized wheels. At the price it is being offered, I’d gladly buy this new and daily it(minus any and all spyware, of course).
While the Chinese driving cycle is overly optimistic, this car would probably get 180-200 miles range at 70 mph on a US interstate knowing the Chinese version has a 38 kWh pack and is as slippery as it is. Maybe 150 miles EPA range.
The US and European competition can do better than they are now, for sure.
A Miata-sized coupe with even less mass, less CdA, and the same size battery would go farther.
The Seagull uses a LiFePO4 battery that has less gravimetric energy density than the best LiIon batteries readily available off the shelf by roughly 30%, allowing even more weight savings for a sports car.
There’s nothing stopping us from having a sub-$20k economy EV sedan or hatchback capable of seating 5 with 200+ miles range for the masses in the USA, and/or sub-2,500 lb EV sports cars with Miata-like price points and supercar performance other than a lack of industry will.
“There’s nothing stopping us from having a sub-$20k economy EV sedan or hatchback capable of seating 5 with 200+ miles range for the masses in the USA”
Nothing but reality. From this article:
23K for 137 miles range on WLTP. WLTP is generally about 20% higher than EPA so that is about 110 miles of EPA range.
I was referencing the Chinese version with 38 kWh, instead of the 30 kWh version in the article.
38/30 * 110 =139.33
139 miles of range isn’t anywhere near the 200+ miles of range in your post I replied too. The idea of a 200+ mile range EV, built to US specs, for sub=$20K without massive subsidies is a pipe dream.
Doubly so for a vehicle sized so that people in the USA would actually buy it. This BYD is the size of a Mitsubishi Mirage Hatch or old Chevy Spark. Simple put – cars that size do not sell in the USA in enough volume to bother making them
139 miles EPA.
Steady-state highway cruising, which more closely reflects how people drive on long distance trips, will use less energy, than having lots of accelerations and decelerations which disproportionately penalizes an aerodynamic car vs the norm.
The GM EV1 had a real-world 130+ mile highway range, even though the EPA range was just over 100 miles.
EVs do worse than EPA range in steady state highway cruising. Car & Driver only managed 220 miles of range with the Bolt in their steady highway test (in the summer). Range drops quite a bit in the winter.
My Bolt is rated at 260 miles of range. It does 300 miles in the summer / 200 miles in the winter on my mixed commute with highway speed less than 65 mph.
That 139 miles of EPA range will be 100 miles or less on the highway in the winter – with a new battery without any degradation.
Curious, have you ever owned an EV?
Yes. I’ve converted a car for my personal use, and built multiple micro-EVs from scratch.
I have not purchased any OEM EV since nothing has been offered in the US market that appeals to me.
The bolt has nearly twice the drag of an EV1. Highway cruising at speed, speeds which the EPA highway test doesn’t reach, are going to penalize it in the real world, relatively speaking.
The EV1 was a rolling science experiment that was basically unsellable in the USA.
Same can be said for the first gen Honda Insight. Honda sold less than 20K worldwide over 7 years. Toyota made the much more practical Prius and went on to sell 1.2 million of the 2nd gen in 6 years.
I asked if you owned an EV as you seem to be leaving out important aspects of living with an EV – like reduced highway range and cool weather range.
What car did you convert – sounds interesting. I had plans for years to do an EV conversion but never got around to it.
My first EV was a 2016 Spark EV – great little car but basically unsellable without a massive subsidy. I leased mine for $99 per month because GM tossed $10K on the hood next to the $7500 from the feds.
I converted a Triumph GT6 MkII body frankensteined onto an MkIII chassis. It is more efficient on the highway than the city, and this is without completing the aerodynamic modifications I intend for it. It’s not complete, but it does drive.
Reverend Gadget(was on the show “Sucking Amps” and did work for the Discovery Channel in the 1990s/2000s) converted a Spitfire given an GT6 MkIII body, and found it only needed 120 Wh/mile to hold a steady 60 mph. With low rolling resistance tires, he reduced it even more.
City consumption is about 50% higher than steady state highway in both cases, and neither are EPA rated for comparison to that metric.
The “rolling science project” did prove the platform efficiency that was possible, and even the EV1 was compromised for styling purposes while getting its 0.19 Cd. Get that efficiency or better in a practical design, and see what happens. We don’t need such massive batteries in cars as we have now to get the desired range. We need more aerodynamically efficient cars. This will drive both cost and mass downward, and at the right price point, I think that will matter far more than what sort of fad styling zeitgeist the car isn’t conforming to.
Your Triumph sounds interesting. Does it have regen?
I think that is the reason that pretty much every modern EV does better in city driving than on the highway. The “magic” of regen that returns 70 – 80% of the braking energy to the battery.
Then there is cruise speed. Highway cruising in the USA is a 75 to 80 mph affair not 60 mph.
Car & Driver has tests for many common EVs and pretty much the only manufacturers beating their EPA range in a steady state 75 mph highway test are the Germans – and they do so either because they have 2 speed gearboxes, the manufacturer deliberately under reports EPA range, or a combination of both.
For example the 2020 Model Y – the most common EV in the USA by far – only manages 220 miles at 75 mph vs an EPA range of 316 miles.
Mercedes did manage a 0.19 Cd is a much more practical shape than the EV1 with their “Bionic” concept. It has 4 seats at least even if it isn’t the best for carrying cargo.
Neither GT6 mentioned in the previous post has regen. They have brushed series-DC motors that rarely match or exceed 80% efficiency. A Cd value of 0.32 and a frontal area of 1.4 m^2 coupled with low mass really works in its favor.
The Aptera is doing 75 mph on 150 Wh/mile, IIRC. We could have a 4-door 5 seater car of similar CdA doing similar.
The Aptera is another rolling science experiment that will not sell in any volume in the USA – if it ever reaches production. They have already gone bankrupt once and are not projecting serial production until 2028.
It is also legally a motorcycle and does not meet US automobile regulations.
There are so many American use cases for this, even though it wouldn’t replace most mainstream cars here. I keep saying this, but I think once it was obvious that China was going to be the EV leader (price wars, government subsidies, whatever), there was a period where we could have just ceded that piece of the market to them, knowing it was probably not going to be more than 10% of the US auto market. National security concerns could be allayed by reducing connectivity options and that would be fine with me.
As far as the other 90% of the market, that’s where PHEVs and Hybrids can continue to shine. As skeptical as I am about some of China’s practices, their price wars could have been our gain. I don’t think banning them is going to help the US auto industry much, if at all (except maybe one certain staffer in particular; he’s trying hard to keep their reputation for EVs in the “exclusive” range, but the used market is changing that)
They need to sell it here
$23K for a 100 mile range EV that is the size of the old Spark EV? They would sell dozens.