Kia is on its way to an 800,000 sales year, which is remarkable when you consider that the brand didn’t even sell 25,000 cars in all of 1995. At the current sales pace, the Korean automaker is selling more cars in two weeks than it sold in all of its second year on the market. How is the company doing it? There’s a clear plan in place, and it’s probably only going to get stronger in the coming years.
The Morning Dump is a roundup of car-related news that’s tilted towards industry happenings, which makes it a record of a moment in time for automakers. While I personally didn’t love my Subaru ownership experience, it’s worth mentioning that the latest consumer satisfaction data shows that I am very much in the minority.
Could Chinese automakers follow in the footsteps of Japanese and Korean car companies? If anyone is going to do it, it might be a company like Xiaomi, which is planning a bit of a European vacation of the non-Griswold variety. And, finally, I went to a bunch of auctions last week to see the cars, and there was one set of sales that surprised me.
Kia Has A Nearly Flawless Lineup
Kia has a great resource on its media site that allows journalists to pull up sales data for any month in the company’s roughly 30-year history in the United States. In July of 2025, Kia sold 71,123 vehicles. Most of those were some sort of crossover, although the brand did a healthy business in small cars a well. There are electric cars and, more importantly, there are hybrids.
What was July 1995 like? The company then only sold two models, the Sephia and the Sportage. Contrary to what you’d expect these days, the little crossover Sportage only garnered 919 sales, whereas the diminutive Sephia sedan had nearly double the sales at 1,743. In terms of growth, the change in Sportage sales over that time is an eyelid-scrunching 3,406%.
I mention all of this because of a story today in Automotive News about the success of the brand, which zeroes in on some of the strengths of the company:
Kia America is delivering on its promise to strike the right balance of electrified and internal combustion offerings.
The Korean automaker just freshened the Sportage, its No. 1 seller and longest-running nameplate. The compact crossover is one of three vehicles that offers gasoline, hybrid and plug-in hybrid powertrains.
For 2026, the popular Telluride is expected to add a hybrid powertrain to its lineup, following in the footsteps of the Carnival hybrid, which joined the roster last year.
Even with tariff confusion, the brand says it expects to grow to more than 800,000 sales in the United States this year. That would be an increase over last year and put it ahead of brands like Jeep, Subaru, GMC, and Mazda. It’ll even get the brand closer to Nissan, which is withdrawing, while Kia is expanding.
My theory on Kia goes beyond the obvious, which is that the company offers an attractive mix of electric vehicles, regular gas-powered vehicles, and a lot of hybrids. That’s only part of the story. For a non-domestic automaker, Kia currently has the most optimized lineup, and this is testable because Hyundai has almost an identical one. While Hyundai has been historically the bigger of the two companies (Hyundai absorbed Kia into itself), Kia is now nearly as big.
How? What Kia is doing is a one-two punch of offering competitive products with multiple powertrains in key segments and picking up segments that everyone else has abandoned. The Sportage is a popular alternative to vehicles like the Escape, and on par with something like the Toyota RAV4 (so much so that it’s mostly preference). I’d take a Sportage over any comparable vehicle from any of the Big Three.
Which small car does the extremely popular Kia K4 compete with from those companies? Literally no cars. There’s nothing in any of the Big Three lineups that’s a small car (the Fiat 500, but that’s an expensive EV now). The same for the Kia K5 and Kia Soul (the Traiblazer, maybe?).
Another key to me is the Carnival, which now offers a hybrid (review coming, but it’s predictably great on fuel) and is seeing sales up 52% year-over-year. The only Big Three automaker with a minivan is Stellantis, and part of that might just be because, without it, Chrysler would have exactly zero cars.
What Kia doesn’t do, that Hyundai does, is have a truck. Given how strong the truck market is in the United States, you’d think that would be an issue. I think not having a truck is the better play. While I like the Santa Cruz, it’s not a big hit and has been largely overshadowed by the Maverick. That’s an extremely hard market to compete in, and getting people to switch from Rangers to Tasmins, or whatever, isn’t worth the effort. It hasn’t worked for anyone other than Toyota, and even then, Toyota’s full-size truck remains an also-ran in the truck space.
Instead, Kia’s future is built on affordable and fun vehicles in mostly empty niches like the K4 Hatch and a small electric van that’s coming in 2027. I don’t see another automaker that has the range, frankly, and that includes Hyundai.
Subaru Tops Toyota In Consumer Satisfaction Survey
The annual American Customer Satisfaction Index (ACSI®) Automobile Study is out, and Subaru broke its tie with Toyota by reaching an overall satisfaction of 85%, ahead of Mazda, which is now on par with Toyota at 82%. Buick, GMC, and Honda are all pretty close at 81%.
What’s leading Subaru’s victory? Here’s how ASCI describes the results:
Subaru continues its success by leaning into a reputation for safety and dependability. It has enjoyed strong sales growth in recent years, which could carry over into 2025 with offerings like a redesigned Forester, the availability of a more powerful Crosstrek engine, and new trim options for the Ascent and Outback.
Hyundai improves 3% this year, climbing to a score of 80. Meanwhile, Stellantis nameplates, Jeep, Dodge, Chrysler, and Ram all slip.
Most customer experience metrics were unchanged this year. Driving performance remains high at 84, followed by dependability, mobile app quality, and vehicle safety at 83 each. Vehicle safety is one of the three scores that decline 1%, along with exterior at 82 and technology at 79.
Stellantis has a long way to go.
Xiaomi Says It’s Coming To Europe In 2027
The most talked-about brand in 2025 is probably China’s Xiaomi, which is a remarkable achievement given that the company is only going to sell about 300-400,000 cars this year, and almost all of those will be in China. According to Bloomberg, it’s not content to stay in China:
Xiaomi Corp. intends to sell its first electric vehicle in Europe by 2027, declaring plans to take on Tesla Inc. and BYD Co. globally after gaining traction with its year-old Chinese EV business.
President Lu Weibing shed more light on the company’s expansion plans after reporting a 31% rise in quarterly revenue, riding the successful launch of its second electric vehicle over the summer. That helped counter slowing demand for smartphones.
Xiaomi has previously described ambitions to go global, though it’s never specified a target market. Europe is a common destination for Chinese carmakers like BYD seeking to tap a more lucrative arena, while governments across the continent are wooing Chinese EV and battery firms in part to mitigate impact from US tariffs.
This is more bad news for Tesla, which is rapidly shrinking in the European market.
You Won’t Believe What This 2017 Viper Just Sold For
I think enthusiasts are all obsessed with the first two generations of Viper, which makes sense. I get it. I want a second-gen GTS coupe. I’m only human.
The last generation Viper, though? That’s a great supercar. If you’ve got to put thousands of miles on a Viper, I think it’s the one to have. I am apparently not alone. A 2017 Dodge Viper GTC ACR Extreme Aero Package sold at Broad Arrow Auctions at the Monterey Jet Center this week for an unbelievable $406,500.
Are these cars worth that much? I know this is a particularly unique car, but it’s still a last-gen Viper. Another model, this one with only 350 miles on the Odo, sold for $357,000, so it’s not exactly a fluke.
What I’m Listening To While Writing TMD
It’s “California” by Phantom Planet, because I also spent last week driving down the 101. And the 5. A lot of the 5.
The Big Question
Who does it better than Kia?
Photo: Kia
Kia does offer a lot, but the play is to buy their cars (or Hyundais) used. Why? Depreciation. Their value drops like pants in an Army medical room, making it possible to but a lot of car for
Kia depreciation also jmproves the value proposition of a new Toyota — if a Carnival is the same price as a Sienna, look at the depreciation to see which is the smarter buy new. Where I live, two-year old used Siennas go for damn near new prices.
Id be interested in seeing a graph of the annual sales of Kia, Nissan, and maybe Mazda over the past six years. It feels like Kia is eating Nissan’s lunch, and I wonder whether that would look directly supported by sales figures.
This seems like a given in all areas except maybe Small Trucks. The Frontier and the Nissan Z are two areas Kia/Hyundai do not properly compete with anymore or in the case of the truck, ever did. too bad too, the Telluride would be a handsome Honda Passport competitor with a bed and maybe the GM midgate the Passport was at one time planned to have.
What Passports have a bed? You mean the Ridgeline? 🙂
Most Unstoppable? I mean yes, we know a lot of them lacked engine immobilizers.
Weird that their current ad campaign treats buying a car as a getaway. Like, they are really leaning into it.
Kia and Hyundai benefit from vertical integration. It is relatively cheap for them to make iterative changes between major model refreshes, which results in their cars always feeling fresh. This intergration also means cheaper technology deployment, which has enabled them to blur the line between traditional mass market and luxury segments. On price point alone, I could have all of the interior technology like integrate infotainment, heated seats, automatic cruise, lane detect, etc clad in “is it leather?” in my base GX in Palisade or Telluride for 20-30k less. And honestly, I thought the interior was nice.
But then I’d be buying a Hyundai/Kia.
And they have a horrific reputation for reliability (engines, fires, transmissions oh my). And they have a reputation for getting stolen. And, working against them, because they change designs so radically, so quickly, their styling ages quickly.
So in short, they are the fast fashion of automobiles. And that’s exactly what some people are looking for.
I thought they installed the Theta random engine immobilizer in many of their vehicles. The quality of the new ungraded version is still in question.
Lacked. Past tense. But also some ridiculous number (30% as of 2024) of all eligible vehicles on road did not get the retrofit fix.
I was referring to the theta engine self immobilizing the vehicle by blowing up.
Usually it is The 5 OR The 101. Not sure how you “drove down” both.
I can see both if he and Torch were staying at that Holiday Inn Express near Galpin and taking 5 to get out of the Valley and then 101 up the coast.
Better to take The 101 all the way home, stop at some wineries over a few days, Sideways it all the way to Santa Barbara. But that’s just me.
As long as they get to fly through Burbank and not LAX given how Valley-centric the “office meeting”, “wrenching on project cars” and “making gurgly sounds at baby Delmar” parts of their visits seem to be, it’s all good.
Matt, didn’t Kia just announce a full sized truck within the last year? I’m pretty sure they did and it has some silly name and is fairly ugly.
Edit: They did (the Tasman) put it appears to not be coming Stateside
He mentioned the Kia Tasman.
I don’t think the Tasman is a full sized truck. Maybe it would be in other markets, but not in the US if it by some chance ever got sold here.
I’m so incredibly frustrated with the “air I am breathing” these days that I would love, and almost encourage, Xiaomi and BYD to crash test some cars, take the tariff hit, and import a “metric fuck ton” of cars into the US to
competecrush Tesla out of existence, and “filter the air” of these insane, greedy, cash grabbing profits we are being sold. While I have been on the record as to not support Chinese companies, I’m “choking to death from this polluted air”, and would be curious to see how this strategy would play out. I really never thought my brain would come to this conclusion.We owned a hyundai in the 90’s. The experience was SOOOOO bad that I will never consider buying a hyundai or kia as long as I’m alive. I don’t care how good their cars supposedly get.
The 90’s were 30 years ago, my dude. The company you’re comparing that experience isn’t even the same today. You might was well be comparing modern day Hyundai to AMC.
In more recent history, Kia/Hyundia decided not to put proper immobilizers in their vehicles, contributing to major motor vehicle theft spikes across the country. While I don’t want remove blame from the thieves themselves, there’s a reason why Kias and Hyundias were the targets and not any other brands.
There’s never a shortage of reasons to not buy a Kia/Hyundai. Go back shortly before that and it was warranty denials for engine failures. And before that was before they had “good” cars.
And today, they still have a downright garbage dealer experience.
Look, no car is perfect, but Kia/Hyundai is still has notable shortcomings that they should rightfully be called out on. I really want an Ioniq 5, and it’s a great car, but it’s not good enough (or cheap enough) for me to overlook the rest.
That really was a weird decision. My 1987 v6 Firebird had an immobilizer. Not a car known for cutting-edge tech.
That’s not an untrue statement, but I think it’s based on the wrong thing. People have been saying Hyukia “aren’t the same Hyukia of 5 years ago” for about 25 years now. While, they’re certainly better than what they put out 30 years ago, they’ve gotten only as better as they’ve needed to seem to be to keep pace with the standards of the industry (while raising prices relative to competitors), but largely remaining junk for long term buyers. The problem is less about the product, which changes, it’s the corporate culture, which can last indefinitely and most often only changes for the worse. Thirty years is a lot in terms of product, but not necessarily culture.
We had a Kia Sorrento in the 2010s, but yes – same conclusion. Had it for a dozen years, and grew to hate it.
I had a Soul for about six months (insurance loaner while the Miata was stuck in the body shop awaiting unobtanium parts), and it was fine (if largely forgettable), but I shudder to think of what it would have turned into with 100,000 miles on it.
I can relate to the people that get them as rentals as say they were ok/fine/wonderful vehicles, but they’re not dealing with a long term commitment there. To extend the metaphor from my other post to this article, they haven’t seen them when the makeup has worn off.
Fun for a short time, not a long time. I don’t own one for these reasons.
Compelling lineup, but poor reliability, resale, warranty support, burnt out taillight bulbs (this is a thing), and the whole Kia Boyz debacle. Hard to recommend until they get their mechanical quality under control.
I have to wonder how much of your distain for the Subie is caused by the availability of other vehicles to experience because of your job. If you’d bought it and not had the opportunity to “sleep around” so much, would you still hate it?
Maybe it fails in comparison to a concept made up of all the particular things you crave/admire/want from any number of “side pieces” you get to play with, while the reality is nobody makes a vehicle that could actually live up to that idealized standard.
My kids both have Subies and they love them. Sure there are some things they wish were a little better/different here and there, but they’re very happy with the overall packages. They don’t get much exposure to other options, though, so one could argue they don’t know what they’re missing. That said, they are perfectly happy as is. They’ll never miss what they’re not aware of.
I seem to recall you weren’t happy with the car before the Subie, either. Is yours just a case of “grass is always greener?” I’m not trying to be insulting here, I’m honestly wondering.
“We’re OK, as long as you don’t try our competitors” is certainly a slogan they could try.
“We’re the best car you’ve tried… so far.”
“You think you hate it now, but wait ’till you drive it.”
You know, that Kia salesman did look a little like Eugene Levy.
I smell COTD 😉
I have a grudge against them because they convinced generations of US drivers they need the weight mpg penalty and expense of AWD just to drive “safely” in the rain. Plus they’re ugly and have dumpy interiors.
I think it was Audi that pioneered the AWD craze (apologies to Jensen and AMC), plus we live in the snow belt, so there’s that.
As for the interiors, I grew up in malaise era GM products and an old Rambler station wagon, so I don’t consider the interiors “dumpy”.
I do see where you’re coming from here, though. There is definitely a solid argument you’re not wrong.
I don’t have a problem with the older interiors. They’re basic but functional and don’t look too dated.
I very much dislike the portrait tablets in the current models. It looks like a custom ipad installation from a build thread on a car forum.
As a Kia stan (Owned my 2013 Soul for 11+ years, currently driving a 2024 Forte GT) I agree strongly that Kia is on point right now, but I’m still pretty disappointed in them for dropping the Stinger and for not (as yet) pushing out a proper K4 GT. I get that Hyundai is supposed to be the performance brand, but I still think there would have been room in the lineup for a refreshed Stinger.
When I lived in the PNW you could always tell a California transplant by the way they called I-5 “The Five.” It was our shibboleth.
they very much still do that.
To be fair, the “the” is a Southern California trait.
But, it is OK to call The United States Interstate Highway System Number Five “I-5”??
There is still a significant stigma/bias against Kia and Hyundai here at the epicenter of the Kia Boys nonsense. While their current products may be good, many people here have a bad taste in their mouth and won’t even consider these brands for fear of theft and lack of support from the manufacturer.
Kia has a great lineup, but stories of poor reliability and the treatment of customers after the sale would make me a little hesitant to buy one.
For me its all about reliability and total cost of ownership. And I’m not sure how many years of history I want to see before I believe it, but I don’t think Kia is there yet. But also: I’ll never forget or forgive my local Kia dealer from trying to four-square razzle dazzle me (with the phone on speaker, lol) when I walked in talking cash OTD pricing. It was straight out of that old Edmunds “this is what skeevy dealers do” playbook.
Ugh. I can’t believe they still get away with that crap. My Kia dealer experiences have been pretty chill but I prearrange financing through my credit union.
At the rental counter I usually seek out Kia/Hyundai product. They are well designed and thought out and tend to be a good driving experience. I hesitate to buy as I run cars forever and have heard more than a few high mile horror stories. I’m gonna run a car for 250,000 + miles I’m buying Toyota. But, if I’m looking at a lease or shorter term ownership I would consider.
Funny you say that, as I’ve rented several times in the last few months, and have had several Kias (K4 and K5), and I just don’t like them. I think I get why people buy them; if you don’t care about cars/driving (and I have to remind myself that this is the vast majority of people), they offer distinct style, decent space efficiency, and a certain trendy, techy sheen that cars like Honda and Toyota lack, at a competitive/lower price. But, at least in the volume trim levels, the driving experience is adequate at best, with lots of really intrusive, undefeatable nannies. I have a K5 this week, and with fewer than 8,000 miles it has a creaky rattling noise coming from the left front corner when accelerating from a stop. (Motor mount? CV joint? Even on a rental, whatever it is shouldn’t be worn out at 7K.)
The rental I had recently that I was surprised by was an Altima, but I think the reasons I liked it are the reasons it’s not doing as well as the K5. It wasn’t trying to be particularly stylish/trendy or sporty or luxurious or tech-forward, it was just solid basic transportation with zero pretense. And, aside from engine noise, it was a better performer than the K5 in every way, and even had a modicum of handling.
My last Nissan rentals have been dismal. I did like the new Camry though.
Same here. I’ve also found that Kia/hyundi consistently have excellent Apple CarPlay support across their entire lineup. Especially when renting that’s absolutely key for me for a get in and just drive experience.
I dunno who is doing it better than Kia, but your reference to the 90s Sportage unlocked this commercial from my then-10 year old brain.
WELCOME TO DEE SWAMP.
What about the Hamstars?
No idea what that is.
The 2010 Kia Soul ad campaign. IIRC, it won awards for it.
Cute hamsters, music, cars.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oz_AhAN0s4E
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYOX5eYcViw
Ah, I’d long abandoned cable TV by that stage, so commercials didn’t really reach me as much.
People crap on KIA 24/7/365 online for quality past/current/real/perceived. Also the buy American xenophobia seem to create headwinds here in the upper midwest.
My kid has had a Kia Soul for 10 years and it has be a very good car.
It’s free rent.
I had a Genesis Coupe for 8 years. It was on it’s 3rd engine.
My spouse has a 2013 Optima, the engine let go at 120k kilometers.
My 2016 Sorento has a timing chain rattle that could wake the dead on startup.
Also, if you visit any of the U-pull yards within 200km of me, there isn’t a single Kia or Hyundai after about 2010 with the engine still in it. Someone grabs ’em the day they hit the yard.
But if I wanted literally ANY other brand of engine, I can have my pick. It’s easier to get my hands on an aluminum 5.3 than a Kia/Hyundai engine.
Take that for what you will.
My lowest milage Toyota is our ’07 Corolla with 135k. My Camry Hybrid has 252k and the daughter’s Prius is at 280k. None have had engine work beyond fluids and plugs. I think all are still on the original starter and alternator. The Corolla water pump was replaced under a recall. I keep up with brakes, etc… The Prius needs a wheel bearing. Our running costs and labor are laughably low.
I have also heard numerous 1st person stories of six month waits for warranty engine replacements.
A friend had a Soul that blew the motor under the Theta engine recall. I like the Soul, a lot. I’ve rented a few and they are great little cars. But not if I’m replacing the engine every 70k. I’ll just buy a Corolla.
My uncle and 2/3 sons bought Hyukias. All have had engines replaced. My ex had an Elantra, an abominable POS that the control arms rotted through, but things that would seem a bit much from the Malaise era, like door weatherstripping crumbling away (in New England where we don’t have really issues with rubber aging). Worst car I’ve ever driven or been in, even compared to decades-old rotted shitboxes on their way to the junk yard, was a brand new ’16 Rio rental. I guess the closest thing I have to a flip side example is a guy at work who has 160k (normally, I don’t consider that high mileage, but I’ll grade on a curve here) on his ’15 Veloster and there’s still some original paint left on the sides.
You can’t even do this with most of the Big Three’s cars because they don’t let a nameplate run long enough to matter. Imagine if Chevy still sold the Lumina, except now it’s incredibly competitive, affordable, competent and follows the design trends that get people into the Chevy store. It’s hilarious to think about GM doing that but it’s exactly what we think of when it comes to Kia/Hyundai…I guess you could get close with the Malibu, but yeah that’s dead too (1997-2024) and it never made it past “mediocre” status.
GM is notable for ditching nameplates to try and distance themselves from reputation rather than build on it. See: Cavalier -> Cobalt -> Cruze
Meanwhile, Honda has had a Civic for 53 years and an Accord for nearly as long.
That’s a bit disingenuous when GM has sold a Corvette for 73 years and a Suburban for 90.
True, but other valuable nameplates rotted on the vine due to neglect/mismanagement. Then an old name is resurected on a vehicle that pales in comparison to our collective memory.
Exactly this. Have you seen what the next Camero is supposed to look like?
What’s a “Camero”?
Ah, ah, A!
Oh, duh. Typo. Sorry.
I think they’re a mixed bag, like most automakers.
Not saying they kill every nameplate every model cycle, just that they’re very “I don’t want to play with you anymore” and if it’s not an immediate hit they often lean towards giving up and moving on. They even threw away the S10 nameplate, for what? They had been selling a good little truck under that name from the early 80’s all the way until the early 00’s and they just yeet all that brand equity and decide to start calling the replacement truck the “Colorado”.
It’s insane that the Sportage was what it was in 95 compared what it is now. You can’t compare the Suburban or Vette to a Sportage-class car, which is why I chose the Lumina/Malibu.
I mean, it’s very clear what they value and what they don’t based on that metric. I don’t even disagree with your point there.
But I also think making a clean break with “Old GM” post bankruptcy was probably a good idea, and dumping a lot of those nameplates around that time made sense.
The Big 3 are indeed notorious for this, GM especially so but seemed to wise up the last 20 or so years. Kia has changed around more than a few names themselves, seemingly just because they wanted to standardize the global name after generations. Sephia bridged into Spectra, then became Forte, now K4. Optima became K5, Sedona went to the global Carnival name.
Hyundai actually seems even better at preserving their core model names, aside from the Santa Fe hokey pokey in the 2010s.
Good point!
Same with Toyota, Camry and Corolla have been in the stable for 4+ decades. Other nameplates (Supra, Celica) come and go but the bread and butter stay the same. Even the Avalon, now Crown, hung in for 30 years or so. Add in Tacoma, Tundra, Sequoia, RAV4, Highlander truck and SUV names that have stood the test of time.
Ever heard of the land cruiser?
Exactly… Not my cup of tea, but how long have they sold 4Runners?
Land cruiser since 1954 and 4runner since 1984
Are we just going to ignore the
CRX,Insight,Civic Hybrid,Insight/CRZ,Insight, Civic Hybrid that just can’t keep its name straight? Or the fact that most Honda’s have completely different names in different countries, that then seem to endlessly change? Or that they sell different cars with the same name (i.e. Japanese & Euro Accord was basically a US Acura TSX).Yes.
I would be hard-pressed to think of a brand with more enthusiastic loyalists than Subaru. I know more than a few owners that just head straight for the Subaru dealership when they feel that their current model is getting long in the tooth (for whatever that means to them). It’s hardly surprising that their fans give them good marks.
I’d argue Porsche and Jeep. The Porsche owners club regularly hosts events at our local golf course. And Jeep clubs are a dime a dozen.
Maybe I’ll give you Porsche. I didn’t consider it because I don’t call it a mainstream brand. Jeep has lots of fans, sure, but it seems like a lot of them spend a lot of time complaining about broken Jeeps.
Preaching to the choir. But then again, that’s the origin of classic sports car clubs. That, by in large, a bunch of 1960’s Triumphs, E-types, and other similar car owners were trying to keep their cars running, sharing the knowledge gained.
The Cult of Subaru is REAL.
Kia does have a decent lineup, but I feel like we need to acknowledge that their sales model has an enormous amount to do with their success.
Any Kia dealer will finance anyone for anything. It’s predatory and shady, and they actively seek out people with low credit scores, first-time new car buyers, and people who simply don’t know any better.
During the pandemic, my local KIA dealer was tacking on $10K(!) in ADM on everything, including the $18k Rio. Their OTD price on a base Rio was $34k!!
That reason alone is enough to keep me away forever. I don’t care what they’re offering.
I was shopping for a EV6 a few years ago, most Kia dealers were doing the ADM crap. There was one that was honest about pricing and said their entire dealership group wasn’t participating in the ADM game because the customers don’t come back when you pull those tactics. It gave me faith there are good Kia dealers out there.
I have to believe that there are indeed some good dealers. But the 3 dealers in Las Vegas are all in on the racket, and the next 2 dealers are 100 miles away, so I’ll not be buying.
That’s fair. I think there’s two things going on here:
They could be doing more to clamp down on the bad dealers, to be fair, especially since they don’t need to resort to shadiness now that they actually make good cars. I know they don’t care because those bad dealers probably sell more cars than the good ones, but it has really tainted the brand for me.
True, however the OEMs don’t have as much control over the dealers as we think.
Also, their design is stellar (although not for everyone) and the performance/cost ratio is excellent (related to your point #1).
And they don’t seem to be doing much to fix #2. Making more money with them than without them, I guess.
Hey now, my first new car purchase was when I was in my 20s, didn’t know any better, and had terrible credit!
Oh wait, yeah, that’s how I ended up in a Kia Rio with a 20% interest rate loan.
(the car was… fine. It ran for 10 years and 125,000 miles with no major problems until I traded it in for something better.)
High, but not terribly out of line for a unique color and good spec.
What they offer (natural aspiration, 6 speed manual, RWD) just isn’t offered much anymore. These are basically the peak of that formula among anything that doesn’t cost millions.
I should add though, that the ACR market is diverging from everything else.
Cars like mine, or like this one that sold today, have been pretty steady since around 2020.
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2014-dodge-srt-viper-33/
I’ve wanted a 3rd gen Viper since I was in high school and they came out. I was excited when I entered the work force after college as 1st and 2nd gens had gotten cheap, like pretty easy to find sub $25k for rougher ones back then, and surely 3rd gens would follow. Sadly, that doesn’t look to be the case for 3rd gen coupes. For the most part, they seem to have bottomed out in the mid 40s for absolute turds with crash history, high mileage, and bad overall condition.
Yeah coupes are rare enough (06 only) that it doesn’t seem like they’re going to be bargains.
The Gen 3 convertibles are probably the best value in used Vipers though.
I’m glad you understood what I meant with the the 2003-10 ZBs being what I was talking about. It seems crazy how they waited so long for a coupe model.
Xiaomi will be interesting to watch.
BYD, and MG already have heavy presence in Europe. It’s interesting to watch the transition of some countries, like France, from being dominated by the big French brands (Peugeot, Citroen, Renault) to tilting heavily to Toyota and, now, with the Chinese brands starting to break their way in. The BYD models look very well put together from what I can see.
Hyundai had a tough start with the Pony/Excel internationally in the ’80s. Look at them now.
As a consumer: it’s impressive to see how quick things can appear to move.
I enjoyed my Kia Optima for a while, until the oil burning coincided with “an offer I couldn’t refuse” when I was messing around with Carvana a few years ago. My wife has had three Souls in a row (one gone due to the fire risk from the mid-10s, one to a wreck), and she’s hell bent on staying with Kia for the next car.
If they hybridize the K4 Hatch before I’m ready for something new, it would be hard to turn down. That’s Kia’s biggest downfall, however (if you can truly call it a downfall): lack of hybridizing the small stuff. Outside of the Niro, your entry level hybrid is the Sportage. I don’t hate the size, but I definitely don’t require it. Honda and Toyota are hybridizing smaller vehicles, Kia needs to jump on that train to keep this momentum up. Like Matt keeps reminding us, it is the Year of the Hybrid, after all!
I truly believe that Hyundai and Kia are the absolute best on the market at coverage and value. They offer almost any vehicle in any configuration you could possibly want, save for a few very small niches, and in every single category offer those product at an extremely compelling price. They are so adept at determining what customers actually want, and executing on those things well, with eye catching designs, feature heavy interiors, and just good enough reliability/warranty coverage to get LOADS of people to give them a shot. I know several engines have been duds, the dealer network is VERY hit or miss on quality, and not every model is class leading.
But despite that, you can walk into a dealership with zero idea of their lineup, tell a sales guy “I want X class of car, in Y size, with Z powertrain configuration” and walk out with something that meets that list at a reasonable price that will feel modern. Truly no other manufacturer can do that across every single product, so it doesn’t at all surprise me why they are growing so fast.
Edit: really think about it, pick any segment of car Hyundai/Kia makes, and do a comparison with it’s competition, and in any reviewers list, the H/K product is at least in the top 5, usually top 3. Sport sedan? Elantra N undercuts toyota and honda on price massively, but it’s great! Full size EV SUV? EV9 is far cheaper than the only-luxury competitors at it’s size. Minivan? Carnival! Medium or full size sedan? Covered! The only real gaps Hyundai and Kia truly has are BOF trucks, and I think they recognize competing with Toyota and the American OEMs on that front is a fools errand when there is so much more low-hanging fruit in the market to tackle.
I know Kia dealers are a sore spot, but I’m very lucky in that I’ve dealt with two in my area, and have been treated well. The biggest issue was the damned finance office at one of them, which is why we switched.
This.
When you say “compelling price” are you considering depreciation? Honest question.
Not at all, partly because a lot of buyers don’t consider it when they make a purchase. A well informed car purchase absolutely should consider retail (hence why so many people love Toyotas, especially their BOF offerings) but so many people walk into a dealer, look at the sale price, and see that it’s a lot of new car per dollar.
I feel like Kia and Hyundai get a pass on some quality issues because of their humble beginnings. The Kia boys fiasco, the grenading engines, the battery pack fires, the inverter issues. If this were GM or Ford I feel there’d be more scrutiny, and there has been for similar if not the exact same issues, but because it’s just ‘Kia’ people seem to shrug it off.
So I guess to sum up, a lot of people do it better than Kia, but when it’s lowered expectations I guess even a Kia Optima seems optimal.
Also Subaru topping a Consumer satisfaction survey tells me a lot of Subaru zealots still answer their landlines and mail back surveys, I’m in the same camp as Matt and had too many issues to consider them for a long while, if ever.
I think the biggest reasons why Subaru and Mazda are up so high is partly due to a much smaller and more generally zealous ownership base. I absolutely would never touch a Subaru product, but I am a huge fan of what Mazda does, and having known several loyal Subaru owners and Mazda owners, they sell so many fewer vehicles than Honda or Toyota, and the owners tend to come back time and time again.
I think they key to both brands surging so high is being really in tune with what their owners want, because they don’t have to appeal to the widest number of people with higher volumes, they are able to deliver a much more curated product to the people that care the most, which does wonders for brand loyalty.
Anecdotally, much like your comments, our Subaru has been trouble-free. Which is as you’d expect from a modern car (it’s only just coming out of warranty now, so maybe opinions will change).
Ford had more recalls than anyone last year, and some of them quite serious. I don’t think the big three get more scrutiny at all.
I’ve been daily driving Subaru’s for over 10 years now. I’ve taken an NA to over 255K and a turbo to 200K so far and still going strong. I haven’t had any concerns that would drive me to swear them off at all.
Over the past 20 years, my two siblings have owned six Subarus and 14 head gaskets.
No thanks.