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It’s an interesting time we are going through. AI itself requires new information made available for it to be of any value. What happens when there are only a handful of sites and a bunch of social media crapping into the aether? A bunch of AI generated slop feeding into itself.
The Ed. Note under the faces made me wonder… Are those chairs?!
Whoa…they are! That just freaked me out…I was finishing the article then happen to glance at your comment…and my heart literally skipped a beat, it was kinda scary just processing the realization of those terrifying…chairs. Since I had skimmed past that photo too fast I actually pictured them as a piece of art inside of a cubby showcase kind of display that would be much smaller. Wow, these things just freak me the hell out for some reason.
I’d say whoever sits in them is a…
butthead
(I’ll see myself out and away from those damn things!)
Right? What in the absolute heck.
Oh man, oysters. That’s almost worth not starting a fistfight with chumbox reps.
…almost.
[Editor’s Note: Gaaaaah! – JT] – This may be my favorite Editor’s Note of all time.
Amen. And I am in complete agreement with it.
Go to Naan.
I come here because the content is created by people for people. There are no AI generated posts, and the feel is very genuine. I am very happy to use a little of my limited entertainment budget to support this place.
I would add that the authors write in a way that makes them feel more like friends. I can read about cars any number of places, but here I get cars and stories about the people that are doing the writing as well. And that is something I’ll be surprised if AI can ever convincingly imitate.
And they all have unique voices, you can guess the author most of the time without seeing it (especially Torch, he’s…. special).
I think this ALL the time…I’ll scroll quickly and not note the author, then about two sentences in be like “oh this is Torch (or Mercedes or Thomas or pretty much everyone)” and I’m right way more often than I’m not. This is the secret sauce…letting people write in their voice and not being forced to adhere to some sort of technical writing style.
If traffic is a goal, the RSS feed (which I rely on) shouldn’t include the full text of any story. I do try to read the stories I am interested in on the site, but I catch myself cheating sometimes by just reading the whole thing in my RSS reader.
AI responses are largely untrustworthy garbage. I don’t use them, but have seen enough as they pop up at the top of a search to see that it’s often wrong in subjects I know. As such, I have to assume the responses on subjects I don’t know much about are equally poor. Yet, I am not surprised that people take that top answer and don’t go further.
People had gotten used to the summary of the Wikipedia page which genuinely was trustworthy.
“It’s basically a search engine right?”
Is what one of my friends said about consulting an AI for something, just the other day.
klfjdskgl;jdfkgl;jfwskfl;dasjkm
No!!!
The ad-supported model is on the way out. The fact is, the incentives were always misaligned and that’s how you end up in a situation where you keep putting out content your readers enjoy but somehow lose a bunch of money when someone tweaks an algorithm.
When something is ad supported, the consumer is not the customer. The customer is the one who pays. All of the sudden, you’re trying to balance what regular readers want with what brings eyeballs to the page. You have to decide how horrible you can make the experience for the reader while still getting enough clicks to pay the bills. It’s no way to live.
In the subscription model, incentives are aligned because the person paying for the content is also the one consuming it. Will this mean that there are far fewer viable websites? Yes. But the ones that remain will serve their readers rather than exploiting them.
THIS
Absolutely.
To be clear, keep doing what you’re doing. It’s tough being at the forefront of a major shift, but next year you could be up there at this conference talking about how this site adapted and thrived.
Amen.
This is an astute comment. It’s what absolutely murdered broadcast television. The feedback loop was with the customers who are media buyers, and not the consumers of the content. If you’re running your business for ad buyers, you will lose your audience.
> the person paying for the content is also the one consuming it
Imagine that!
Meanwhile, in network television board rooms: “what do you say we serve ads to paying subscribers? What are they gonna do, watch the game somewhere else? We have exclusive rights until the year 2478! Ha ha ha! Business!”
Is there any talk in the industry of sharing subcribers/ subscription service for mutiple sites? This is something I have been thinking of recently. There are more and more sites that I usually read offering subscriptions, and often putting the most interesting things behind the paywall. There is only a certain amount a year I am willing to pay for website access, and it currently all goes to The Autopian. However, if I were able to keep that amount, and get access to a coupe other sites (theverge, defector, etc), and lose some of the membership benefits I would be interested. I know this may decrease my individual revenue to you, but it may bring in other people that currently subscribe to other site.
There may already be something like this, but i am not aware. I kind of imagine it as an a la carte service selection, where for something like $15 a month you can get subscriber access to 3 sites.
This is a great idea and I’ve thought about it, though practically we are on different systems so this is initially a bit of a challenge. Not insurmountable though!
DEFECTOPIAN COMBO PACK, LET’S GOOOOOO
I have become aware through 100% innocent means that the adult industry uses that model extensively.
I hate to call it a “network” approach because that’s such an overloaded term. Maybe more of a syndicate? A build-your-own package similar to cable?
This reminds me of cable TV for websites. I can’t decide if it is a good or bad idea.
In the newspaper biz, some (usually small) chains are doing this. You subscribe to one paper’s internet site and you get access to their other properties in the nearby geographical region at no additional cost. Sure, there are ads, but you don’t have to wrestle with a paywall to read an article in a paper 30 miles away. And if you’re able to read a page on a sister site, the company still gets some money for the ads on that site instead of just frustrating a subscriber.
I don’t know how news aggregation sites work… how they get the right to aggregate content, resdistribute it and the finances to compensate the sources happen.
I happen to subscribe to and like Apple News and get to read a surprising amount of content, but I don’t know if it’s sustainable for the sources in the long run. It’s much better on an iPad so I tend to use it when I’m sitting down and can read on a tablet rather than a phone.
In TV news, it seems like nearly every station and network has an app but they vary widely in quality and ease of use. They are free, but sometimes, at some sites. you have to endure 60 seconds of ads to view a 30-second clip.
In the end, it’s a challenging time for the media in general, on so many fronts. And I don’t know how to solve the issues.
It’s a cool idea, for sure, but my concern is that it would turn into another version of cable TV “bundles” where you have to buy the whole bundle just to get the one channel you want. THAT would suck.
The cable TV “bundles” are because at one time there wasn’t really any way to tell who was watching what. Eventually that was fixed, but the cable providers know they can offer you 500 channels but you only watch one at a time.
Once you realize that, the price of cable sucks
That approach would help solve the “micro-payment” problem that has plagued media sites since the beginning of paid online content and is still not solved on the transaction side. Transaction fees are way too high to support a system where you would pay what most reasonable people would be willing to pay for a piece of content or access to one site. Anything under $2-3 a month (paid monthly) doesn’t cover the transaction-related costs paid to Visa, the payment processor, and all the other ancillary services used just to move money from your wallet to Matt’s.
That’s partly why everybody gives you discounts if you pay for a year in advance. But that’s risky because $70 a year is a much higher barrier than $6 a month, even though it works out to less money. Idk the breakdown for Autopian subs, but I suspect more people pay monthly than all at once even with discounts.
So instead of micro-payments, a model like Patreon or private content platforms like some music educators are putting together works because you pay a flat fee that’s much larger than transaction costs and feels like you’re getting your money’s worth. It’s not just the Autopian’s “voice” you’re getting, it’s a spread of whichever publisher is in the syndicate.
It’s wild that 30 years in, Visa and company have accomplished nothing to solve this, because why would they work on systems that would reduce their revenue?
You staying at the Westin or on the fun side of the river.
Just spent a day in Savannah last Friday! Ended up at a comedy hour at some hole in the wall bar after dinner, then in a rooftop bar with a band. We were on vacation in SC.
I was just assuming he was at the convention center with the Westin. I been there a couple times on work conventions. Not much to do over there, but when I was there last, they had a boat to shuttle people across the river.
I am in the historic district. Which is the fun side?
Historic district is the fun side, not the convention center side. Least it was fun on my visits. Ghost tour was fun
Been around long enough like what seems to be most of the readers/commenters here, so I remember the great Ad Revenue shifts in sites. Way back when video game sites stayed afloat by ad something-something, and then that all went away. (Pour one out for Lum the Mad). Then it all did something, then pivot to video, etc etc.
At least I trust Matt, David, Torch, all the others to not lead the Autopian to enshittification. One of the reasons I subscribe. With the raise of seemingly all subscriptions these days my wife and I were looking to cut back. I voted for Autopian over some other subscriptions because I read every day pretty much, and the content is key.
I’m not paying for AI slop, though I bet I will indirectly. Dammit.
Now I’m hungry for fried oysters.
Based on the comments here, I suspect most of us are already aware of how shitty AI and AI companies are, but thought I would share this third-party post-mortem of the Grok mecha-Hitler incident: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_9wkavYt4Y
TLDR: AI companies are not your friend, and it only takes one of them to do something unethical to open the floodgates for the rest to follow. And, for your automotive connection, guess who the CEO of one of the least ethical AI companies is?
The tech bros don’t care if they wreck the content industry, and they don’t care if that’s not a long-term sustainable strategy because by the time it blows up in all our faces they’ll have cashed out their billions of dollars and be able to retire to a private island away from the unwashed masses. This is one of the reasons I refuse to consume AI-generated content even if sometimes it _might_ be useful. The whole industry is steering us straight into the iceberg, and whether they realize it or not (they probably do, but never underestimate the lack of common sense in a computer nerd) I’m not going to help them.
Preach.
The last wholesome act of the internet was the raid on Area 51. It’s all gone to shit since then. We are pursuing AI at my company and the number of times I tell people Gemini sum-ups are often bullshit to be faced with Pikachu surprised face is astonishing.
I don’t see how this ends until enough people learn “the hard way” enough times to know to ignore it.
Government lawyers are filing AI-generated court documents with made-up citations. I think it’ll get much worse before it gets better. The good/bad news is it’s all evolving so fast.
A few years ago on a trip to Maine I ate only oysters for dinner. They didn’t soak up the second course, which consisted of a whole bunch of beers. I woke up to go to the bathroom but went into the hallway of the hotel instead. I was locked out, buck naked.
Didn’t get arrested, so no regrets. I think.
The ideal dinner does exis—wait, maybe not the naked part.
I’m unsure the (lack of) attire made a difference in meal enjoyment. It was the lack of attire and key to the room that made things less enjoyable.
Woohoo, timelord!
D’oh 🙁
Have fun, anyway! And watch out for that ttaM guy in the pics – he looks a little frazzled 😉
Well, the Timelord variety of Doctors are also good with stress and resilience, so maybe there’s still hope.
Out of curiosity, why are so many websites similar to this getting into video so much? I’d imagine that both the time and monetary costs are significantly higher than a standard article. Is there a significant amount of ad revenue to be made there, or is it more of an exposure thing to appeal more to various audiences?
I’ve wondered that too, then I wonder if I am just an outlier. Most of the time I’d rather read than watch but I don’t think a lot of the world be that way anymore.
I’ve left a comment on exactly one video, ever.
Definitely not an outlier, unless we both are….
Agreed. And I know I’m in the minority, but if I can read something in between work or personal tasks, I will. But a video almost demands full attention and usually provides less information per second, especially given how much work goes into it.
I’m with you fellers.
Yeah. I can read faster than I can listen. CC helps, especially at 1.5x.
I hate having to watch a video when all I want is to know how to do something that could be paragraph and a picture. I can read four times as fast as anyone can talk, and there is no way to know what’s in the video without watching it.
All I want to know is which screw centers hte blade on the bandsaw, I don’t want to watch a 20 minute video.
If so, it’s not a great strategy. AI is coming for the video space too and a lot of creators I follow are raising the alarm of knockoff AI accounts and low content, low effort AI slop.
To be clear, I’m not against video and spend way more time on Youtube than all other streaming services combined. Mainly just curious about the financial aspect of it. There are just different environments and times where I’d prefer video or long form text articles. Every time I need to do something in my browser, I also open a tab to this site to see if anything new was added and read it as time permits, video I consume only when I don’t have to do something else for a big block of time.
I listen to them, I don’t watch because the visuals don’t really matter for the content I like.
I have not watched any videos, but my guess is they just are trying to cast the biggest net possible as some people watch lots of videos. I have heard that Podcasting is trending down while Video Podcasting is way up. Its literally just cameras pointed at people talking at desks, but its what a lot of people apparently want. I would imagine Autopian vids are not a super huge time/resource sink (though non-zero). I know in general, sites like this tend to need to be everywhere to sustain profits, as in, Facebook, IG, Tik Tok, Youtube etc and across written, audio (podcast) and video formats.
Audio podcasts are just talk radio, and the only place I have ever listened to the radio since I’ve been a teenager is while driving. I have no radio or audio only apps, websites, or devices. I have two stereos at home and didn’t set up antennas or stations.
I dislike video content that could just be a written article, but oddly I’d still 100 times more likely watch a video podcast than listen to an audio only podcast.
I have way more opportunities to consume written/printed material than video. Video is for when I’m getting ready in the morning, or at night when I’m eating dinner. On my previous phone, battery life was a big concern; scrolling through an article didn’t burn up the battery as fast as video. And it’s much easier to enjoy some down time at work reading from a bunch of open tabs than it is to try watching a video.
From what I’ve observed around the office, apparently I’m the only one worried about the corporate nanny software reporting the number of times I watch YouTube videos; it’s very common to see people sitting at their desks watching something, whether or not it’s a break period.
I think it’s two reasons:
On that note, I realized 90% of my idle screen time is spent on YouTube videos of guys in a shed resurrecting based cases. I assume normal gear heads have something similar, but sander. Can the Autopian partner with some of those popular channels somehow? There is A LOT to be said about tailights alone on those videos.
As long as it’s not a full resource-sucking pivot to video, I’m all for diversifying streams of revenue and ways to get folks’ attention over here.
(I am also guilty of just putting on videos of people yapping and then going about random house-tasks like The Teens who Username mentioned, so yeah. Checks out.)
DAMN KIDS ALWAYS RUINING EVERYTHING
The only time I’ll give my attention to video content on a text website is if I’m driving.
Jk obviously. I also don’t understand why video brings so much revenue that every website is punishing non-paying users with autoplay videos.
Well, I read the headline, conjured some very weird expectations, and skipped the article. Now I am shocked that you would go to such an event.
Well, now that I’ve (admitted that I) read the article, I approve of you again (still). Mostly because you made the right culinary choice here (and seem to be a genuinely good person).
Did you miss the whole thing where he made me buy and drive a Rodius?
Oh, shoot, you are right that he was involved in that. I retract my statement about him being a genuinely good person.
Instead, I must now suggest he be canonized. Making that happen definitely counts as a miracle.
You Yugoed yourself though, so does that lessen your credibility?
if I didn’t drive that he probably would have fired me.
Ah, now I see why they are pushing AI stuff…bypasses the content creator’s sites, redirecting ad revenue.
(someone who knows nothing about running a website business).
Additional thought: If they starve the original content creators, where is the ‘real’ stuff going to come from that the AI mines?
In several years will the internet just be one giant heap of bogus garbage…unless you subscribe to their ‘pro AI’?
A) There won’t be a need for new ‘real’ stuff and B) Yes! That’s their end-goal as near as I can tell. It’s not about long term product, all about the near term profit.
…and long term profit.
Isn’t the internet just one giant heap of garbage now? The Autopian is REALLY the only site I visit regularly outside of news. The rest (and the news also) is just annoying and pointless anymore. The novelty has long since worn off.
Some would argue that the internet is already mostly a giant heap of bogus garbage.
Yeah that’s the doom loop we seem to be in: as more and more of the internet becomes AI, the algorithms end up “learning” from more and more nonsense. It’s a shitty copy of a shitty copy of a shitty copy of a shitty copy . . .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yA281OuU3rk
(except way, way, way less cool than Trent)
That’s related to the concept of model collapse, where all the new content left to train on after you’ve sucked in all the human content is… AI generated content. Basically robot inbreeding.
I like that phrase: Robot Inbreeding!
Where will the sausage goop come from once we replace all pigs and cows with yet more sausage?
Zelda Williams, daughter of the late Robin, put it best: We’re at the end of a Human Centipede of “content”, and it isn’t getting any better.
Are those face sculpture things actually chairs? Can I get some for my office/cubicle/cardboard box behind Target?
I think it’s just… art?
No, they’re actual chairs. I think you need to ask Beau to spring for a set to outfit the Autopian’s secret lair.
Never underestimate the value what you are doing might have for other people. The Autopian has built up cultural/ethical trust in a remarkably short time and the only reasonable explanations for it are authenticity (we know there are real people running the site) and credibility (the content is engaging because it’s interesting and entertaining — this is baked into your core purpose).
Amen. I never thought “ethics” was a priority in my automotive and automotive news consumption. In hindsight, it’s because I accepted all publishers were ghouls. I am so impressed this started with you all sitting down and saying “if we make this 10x harder for ourselves, we will find an audience who will notice and appreciate what we’re doing.” That takes crazy courage when you can’t point to any examples where that’s actually worked (or at least I can’t think of any).
It also has the ethically good side-effect that you can’t not-care about the people writing the content, their livelihoods, their well-being, because it’s not some anonymous content farm run by a herb and owned by PE. So we as readers have a real responsibility to live up to our end of the bargain and do more than just read and leave–e.g. talk to others about the site, whitelist the site in ad blockers, buying paid subscriptions, etc.
The transparency, humanity, and personality of the Autopian staff makes reading feel collaborative to me, which is unusual.
Can confirm the industry weirdness. In past lives, I worked at an ad agency and also for Time Inc when they published dead tree magazines. Now is the time that will try good site’s souls. Best of luck, Matt. I’ll subscribe until dead and gone.
When I read “dead tree magazines” I pictured articles about the lives of fallen trees in forests. This one died in the great rainstorm in the fall of ’05…
I’d read that article.