Home » Is Rivian Trying To Be The ‘Light Side’ Of The Force?

Is Rivian Trying To Be The ‘Light Side’ Of The Force?

Rivian R2d2 Tmd Ts
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Rivian hosted its “Automonomy & AI Day” yesterday, and I was struck less by the content of what was said than by the positioning. Most older startup folks tend to talk in science fiction tropes, ranging from extremely mainstream films like Blade Runner to slightly less popular books from others like Asimov or Iain Banks. Rivian, though, reached back to Star Wars, and it feels like a bigger message.

As always, when autonomy comes up, I’m overwhelmed by the sense that it’s easier to talk about it than to do it, but while it’s still profitable to talk about it, expect to hear more of it here on The Morning Dump, without the hype.

Vidframe Min Top
Vidframe Min Bottom

China’s government is done messaging to its automakers that it needs to stop underpricing cars, and now it’s legislating. Paper can’t solve everything, but it can solve a lot, and NASCAR and its teams have paper to move forward without destroying the sport.

That’s heavy, so let’s end on fun news: Car goes fast on ice track.

‘I Think Artificial Intelligence Will Become As Accessible As Running Water, Or Electricity’ RJ Scaringe

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Rivian’s next vehicle, the R2, is a smaller and relatively more affordable two-row SUV that looks as good as the R1 that preceded it. It will, we learned yesterday, also be the first Rivian to get the company’s in-house developed autonomous chip and, maybe even more importantly, LIDAR, as part of a more advanced, Level 4 ADAS system, as TechCrunch reports:

Rivian said it will expand the hands-free version of its driver-assistance software to “over 3.5 million miles of roads across the USA and Canada” and will eventually expand beyond highways to surface streets (with clearly painted road lines). This expanded access will be available on the company’s second-generation R1 trucks and SUVs. It’s calling the expanded capabilities “Universal Hands-Free” and will launch in early 2026. Rivian says it will charge a one-time fee of $2,500 or $49.99 per month.

“What that means is you can get into the vehicle at your house, plug in the address to where you’re going, and the vehicle will completely drive you there,” Scaringe said Thursday, describing a point-to-point navigation feature.

The “Level 4” of it all is interesting, but I’ll let Jason handle that when he’s around next week. Patrick George also pointed out on the InsideEVs podcast that it’s curious that this is being launched on the cheaper R2 and not the more expensive R1. Again, all stuff worth eventually digging into as we learn more about this vehicle.

If you watch the video above (where the quote about water comes from), even the way this is talked about feels a little different than the way Tesla talks about it. While there’s all the same tech stuff, and all the hype about what it can do, it does feel like dressing up an R2 like R2D2 has a deeper point.

Rivian, which is way undervalued compared to Tesla, is trying to make itself both the renegades and the “light side” of the force. Some of this is probably just a “glow up” to help distract from weak sales, but there may now be a significant competitive advantage to being the EV company with autonomous tech that doesn’t feel like it’s building cars on Narkina 5.

Even using Star Wars, which is a reference that even people who have never seen a Star Wars movie get, is important. Elon Musk may not quite get the meaning of Blade Runner, but he probably groks what’s going on in Isaac Asimov’s “Foundation” series well enough (he regularly encourages people to read the series). I loved these books when I was younger, too, but the basic premise is that a universe headed towards a Roman Empire-like collapse is saved by a select few super-smart scientists who get to plan out the future for everyone else.

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In Musk’s vision of the world, you’ll get the life that the smart people give you, and it’ll be fine, and he gets to be a trillionaire. In this competing vision from Rivian’s RJ Scaringe, the underlying conditions are really the same, but it’s more about you and less about the company. As Scaringe said during his presentation:

“This gives you your time back. You can be on your phone, or reading a book, no longer needing to be actively involved in the operation of the vehicle.”

I’ll believe it when I see it, as always, though I don’t really recommend any of the Foundation books, as The Fifth Season feels more of the moment.

China Would Like Automakers To Cut The Shit

Byd 2
Source: BYD

China’s economy does not operate the way our economy does, but the outcomes of state action are just as unpredictable as the “invisible hand of the market,” although I’d argue that most countries have some mix of both.

After encouraging the country’s automakers and startups to lead in electric cars, the ability of Chinese carmakers to overproduce, and the resulting overproduction of cars, led to an overwhelming and brutal price war that involved companies doing strange things like selling new cars as “zero-mile used cars.”

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A change was bound to come, and the State Administration for Market Regulation is out with some new guidelines, as Bloomberg reports:

The new rules set price-compliance requirements for vehicle and parts production to pricing strategy and sales practices, according to the draft released by the State Administration for Market Regulation on Friday. Automakers will face “significant legal risks” if they set sale prices below production costs to exclude competitors or monopolize the market, it said.

“Rapid market growth, especially in new energy vehicles, has brought new business models and increasingly complex pricing,” the regulator said Friday. “Problems such as irregular price displays, fraud, collusion and irrational competition have disrupted the market and harmed consumers and businesses.

I don’t necessarily recommend downloading a Word doc from the Chinese government to your computer as I just did, but there is an amusing section about not giving out “gifts” to customers for buying cars. We have these rules in the United States as well, typically under “rebate laws,” and it seems like China is catching up.

NASCAR Blinks

Jordan Persnal Meme
Screenshot: Netflix/Last Dance

I mentioned on Monday that Michael Jordan could potentially bring down NASCAR. That didn’t happen, as NASCAR seems to have been persuaded by a couple of brutal days in court to settle.

Per ESPN:

“Like two competitors, obviously we tried to get as much done in each other’s favor,” Jordan said, towering over France, 81. “I’ve said this from Day 1: the only way this sport is going to grow is we have to find some synergy between the two entities. I think we’ve gotten to that point, unfortunately it took 16 months to get here, but I think level heads have gotten us to this point where we can actually work together and grow this sport. I am very proud about that and I think Jim feels the same.”

France concurred.

“I do feel the same and we can get back to focusing on what we really love, and that’s racing, and we spent a lot of time not really focused on that so much as we needed to be,” France said. “I feel like we made a very good decision here together and we have a big opportunity to continue growing the sport.”

If you come for Michael Jordan, you best not miss.

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Fast Car On Ice

I’m a Flying Spur kind of guy, so if you’re telling me that Bentley set a new fastest winter lap at the farthest north regularly operating track, I’m into it. This all took place at the Drivecenter Arena circuit in Fällfors, which sounds like a place I’d try to catch in SkyCards.

Despite the entirety of the 2.05-mile track being covered in 12” of ice and snow, the Flying Spur Speed was able to complete laps in under three minutes, with the best time standing at 2:58 – the quickest any vehicle has lapped the facility in winter conditions, ever. The Flying Spur’s variable four-wheel drive system and rear-wheel steering combined to give the car outstanding agility in the conditions, and peak speed was 120 mph during the record run despite the longest straight being only 450 metres long and covered in sheet ice.

Heck yeah, good buddy.

What I’m Listening To While Writing TMD

Bust out the popcorn, it’s ELO’s “Hold On Tight.” Why? I have no idea.

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The Big Question

What car would you most like to drive on a race track that’s covered in ice and snow?

Top graphic images: Rivian; Lucasfilm; DepositPhotos.com

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Data
Data
13 hours ago

Level 4 and 5 autonomy comes about and everyone thinks it’s great. Then like the cell phone morphing from something amazing to a digital leash to work, companies will require you to be on the clock while commuting. Traffic jam, car accident, heyah mule, keep working! Cynical? Maybe, but I feel my blood pressure shoot up every time my phone rings these days because it is either spam or work.

Goof
Goof
11 hours ago
Reply to  Data

>Then like the cell phone morphing from something amazing to a digital leash to work, companies will require you to be on the clock while commuting.

Already happened. I’ve had a lot of people be on meetings from their cars.

I’ve solved this possibility by having cars with insane induction noise. Sure, I’d be muted most of the time, but when I have to speak you just get BWAAAAAAAH drowning me out because I will drop multiple gears and floor it.

For now I don’t see a situation where I’d have to be in a meeting while driving, but if it were to occur, insane flat-six noises or crazy V8 noises would ensure no one would ever ask me to attend from a vehicle ever again.

LMCorvairFan
LMCorvairFan
5 hours ago
Reply to  Goof

Had a manager team me into a meeting and wanted me to jump onto the cloud console to help them debug a problem they were having. Ffs on a cell phone while driving. I hung up and turned off my phone.

StillNotATony
Member
StillNotATony
14 hours ago

What would I drive on ice?

SHERP.

If it broke, it can swim to shore and climb out.

Andrew Daisuke
Andrew Daisuke
14 hours ago

The benefit of not requiring office workers to be in an actual office (if they don’t really need to be) would be the largest benefit to the environment and workers attitudes humanly possible in the US.

Not wasting your time sitting in a car driving to and from work (or sitting on a bus/train), whether it can drive itself or not, should be the goal.

IRegertNothing, Esq.
Member
IRegertNothing, Esq.
14 hours ago

“This gives you your time back. You can be on your phone, or reading a book, no longer needing to be actively involved in the operation of the vehicle.”

Rivian is starting to sound just like Tesla, recklessly suggesting that you can let the vehicle drive for you while you nap/doom scroll/wank.

Data
Data
13 hours ago

Yes, but they are targeting level 4. Tesla, regardless of their proclamations and naming (Full Self Driving, Autopilot) are still level 2.

TheDrunkenWrench
Member
TheDrunkenWrench
14 hours ago

‘I Think Artificial Intelligence Will Become As Accessible As Running Water, Or Electricity’

Bold statement from Steve-O AJ Scaringe, considering those are the exact two things that AI is making less accessible.

Church
Member
Church
14 hours ago

Definitely worth taking a moment to realize how inaccessible those two things are to vast swaths of the global population. Someone please save us from these tech bros and other out of touch executives.

TheDrunkenWrench
Member
TheDrunkenWrench
13 hours ago
Reply to  Church

Isn’t that like, Akon’s whole thing right now? Digging wells and bringing electricity to people across the continent of Africa? (I’m not even going to pretend I know even half the African countries and their locations).

4moremazdas
Member
4moremazdas
14 hours ago

Rivian embracing the “light side” is probably more to distance themselves from the abject failure that is the ID.Buzz (or at least the black and white ones).

Or… maybe this is an elaborate way for Nissan to finally announce they found a partner?? Those are the only Star Wars tie-in ads I remember.

GhosnInABox
GhosnInABox
14 hours ago
Reply to  4moremazdas

Those were awful. To be fair, VW did run a Star Wars ad for the ID Buzz.

Cheats McCheats
Cheats McCheats
14 hours ago

Subaru 22B

*Jason*
*Jason*
14 hours ago

Launching the new Autonomous tech makes a lot of sense once you realize the huge amount of work that is required to bring that big of an architectural change to a model. The R2 is new and fresh so they are starting from scratch. The R1 will likely get updated along with a refresh some time in the future.

I also doubt Rivian has the resources right now to redo the R1 while trying to get the R2 and R3 to market and an expanded product line is much more important than an updated flagship.

Icouldntfindaclevername
Member
Icouldntfindaclevername
14 hours ago

I’d like to take Tanner’s V8 Passat with studded tires around the ice/snow track. Seems like that would be some real fun right there.

5VZ-F'Ever and Ever, Amen
Member
5VZ-F'Ever and Ever, Amen
14 hours ago

A brick Volvo with the steering rack altered so left=right. This is a thing in Sweden!

Drive By Commenter
Member
Drive By Commenter
14 hours ago

That’s a great paint job on that R1.

For an ice track racer, get me the R3X with studded rally car tires. It’ll be fast for the short amount of time before it’s capabilities go past my skills.

Undecided profile name
Member
Undecided profile name
14 hours ago

Now that the NASCAR thing is settled, can you write a summary article? Id love to read it.

*Jason*
*Jason*
14 hours ago

I second this.

Jdoubledub
Member
Jdoubledub
14 hours ago
Reply to  *Jason*

Third

TDI_FTW
Member
TDI_FTW
10 hours ago

Yeah I tried to read on it and every time I read something I’m left with more questions than answers.

Joe L
Member
Joe L
8 hours ago
Reply to  TDI_FTW

Settling the suit was all about making sure the public doesn’t get answers.

TK-421
TK-421
14 hours ago

As a 501st Legion member with a white Crosstrek with black wheels and Empire-themed vinyl decals, the lead image speaks to me. Even if it’s about something I do not care about.

I don’t watch the news, I definitely know nothing about sports, but at our work Xmas lunch yesterday I saw a TV screen with the NASCAR story and was like “hey I know a little bit about that”.

TBQ: some crazy Group B rallycar that I have no financial obligation to.

Totally not a robot
Member
Totally not a robot
1 hour ago
Reply to  TK-421

This topshot is not the topshot you are looking for.

PresterJohn
Member
PresterJohn
14 hours ago

Look there’s no point in reading too much into stuff like Scaringe is saying here. It’s no different than trying to locate meaning in the things Dario Amodei or Sam Altman say. They just say whatever regardless of the laws of physics or thermodynamics or whatever.

Eggsalad
Eggsalad
15 hours ago

Back in the olden days of ice racing, the car to beat was a two-stroke SAAB. I still want to go ice racing in a two-stroke Sonnett. They had something like a 65/35 F/R weight bias, so the front half of the car was doing all the racing and the back end would do whatever it wanted.

Username Loading....
Member
Username Loading....
15 hours ago

‘I Think Artificial Intelligence Will Become As Accessible As Running Water, Or Electricity’ RJ Scaringe

Probably correct since AI will make both running water and electricity more scarce.

IRegertNothing, Esq.
Member
IRegertNothing, Esq.
14 hours ago

We’re going to turbocharge climate change so our computers can make more convincing deepfakes. Like the crypto mining wasn’t doing enough damage on its own.

Last edited 14 hours ago by IRegertNothing, Esq.
Tiny Mouse
Member
Tiny Mouse
6 hours ago

We’re going to turbocharge climate change so our computers can make more convincing deepfakes ads.

Nsane In The MembraNe
Member
Nsane In The MembraNe
15 hours ago

A soft around the edges billionaire tech bro is still a billionaire tech bro and I don’t want to be a part of the dystopian future that any of them envision for us

FiveOhNo
FiveOhNo
15 hours ago

‘I Think Artificial Intelligence Will Become As Accessible As Running Water, Or Electricity’

Right, so a quarter of the world’s population won’t have access to it?

https://www.unicef.org/press-releases/fast-facts-1-4-people-globally-still-lack-access-safe-drinking-water-who-unicef

NC Miata NA
Member
NC Miata NA
14 hours ago
Reply to  FiveOhNo

A small price to pay if it makes like 12 people in the world another few billion dollars.

GhosnInABox
GhosnInABox
14 hours ago
Reply to  NC Miata NA

To continue the metaphor/simile: I felt a great disturbance in the force, it’s as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly deadass broke.

Last edited 14 hours ago by GhosnInABox
4moremazdas
Member
4moremazdas
14 hours ago

But this dystopian tech bro future has flannel!

Nsane In The MembraNe
Member
Nsane In The MembraNe
14 hours ago
Reply to  4moremazdas

And hey, if I’m going to be a slave to our tech overlords at least I might get a Rivian!

No Kids, Lots of Cars, Waning Bikes
Member
No Kids, Lots of Cars, Waning Bikes
12 hours ago

Take the wins where you can get them.

SkaterDad
Member
SkaterDad
15 hours ago

Given the chance to race anything around a snowy track, I’m reaching for a Group B rally car.

My personal favorite is the Peugeot 205 T16 Evo 1.

First Last
Member
First Last
15 hours ago

The droid sticking out the top is a bit much, but I totally would rock a Rivian with that R2-D2 paint job.

Phonebem
Member
Phonebem
14 hours ago
Reply to  First Last

It is really well executed. Without the astromech head it could almost be considered understated…

D-dub
Member
D-dub
14 hours ago
Reply to  First Last

I hope all of the driver assist warning sounds are R2D2 whistle-fart-beep-boops.
Edit: except for lane departure warnings, which of course should be Luke saying “stay on target”.

Last edited 14 hours ago by D-dub
Data
Data
13 hours ago
Reply to  D-dub

Actually, that would be Gold Five warning you to stay on target. Luke would be more likely to take his hands off the wheel and let Jesus take over.

D-dub
Member
D-dub
11 hours ago
Reply to  Data

You misspelled “the Force”.

Hautewheels
Member
Hautewheels
13 hours ago
Reply to  D-dub

And the nav system must include the voice of Garven Dreis saying “Almost there…almost there” as you approach your destination.

Phonebem
Member
Phonebem
12 hours ago
Reply to  Hautewheels

^^^ These are my people!!!

Alexk98
Member
Alexk98
15 hours ago

I really respect Jordan for spearheading the NASCAR fight. Motorsports loves to prop up long-standing teams and owners as important figures who have all this sway. In reality, series like NASCAR who are owned and operated by a small group or single family are far closer to a dictatorship than a real democracy. It’s been no secret that almost every single team in NASCARs cup series has been royally pissed and screwed over by the Frances, but everyone save Jordan (and 23XI racings other owners, and Front Row Motorsports) has been too terrified to do anything about it.

It also cannot be overstated how risky this lawsuit was for 23XI Racing and Front Row Motorsports. As I mentioned the France family effectively has absolute control over the series, so losing this lawsuit against NASCAR would have effectively signaled the end of both teams, since the series and it’s owners could effectively blackball whoever they wanted. While I’m not a NASCAR fan, I am a massive motorsports fan, and ending monopolies in every series is the only way this amazing sport will continue to survive.

Johnny Ohio
Member
Johnny Ohio
15 hours ago
Reply to  Alexk98

I would have liked the case go to the end where the hammer dropped on the Nascar/France family but I will also take them folding. They are basically the reason I don’t care about the sport any longer. I think it’s pretty telling just how big of cowards people like Rick Hendrick and Joe Gibbs are in this situation. They weren’t happy about any of this stuff either but did they do anything about it?

Alexk98
Member
Alexk98
14 hours ago
Reply to  Johnny Ohio

I agree with that, although I think the mega teams like Hendrick were mad, but are so large that they could afford to tough it out. 23XI being newer and mostly self-funded rather that propped up by the mega Hendricks dealership network had a huge incentive to fight back. It would have been great to see France get taken down by a fiery judgement from a judge, but I do think that a mutually agreed settlement is probably best to keep things from swinging too far in the opposite direction.

AssMatt
Member
AssMatt
14 hours ago
Reply to  Alexk98

Shades of Pearl Jam vs Ticketmaster?

Sammy B
Member
Sammy B
14 hours ago
Reply to  Alexk98

The France family and their ownership of ISC tracks helped to kill CART too. They slowly but surely kicked CART out of ISC tracks in favor of the IRL. They wanted to keep playing nice with the Brickyard 400 and whatnot. They hurt the ALMS in favor of GrandAm at the time too.

Phonebem
Member
Phonebem
11 hours ago
Reply to  Alexk98

Given Jordan’s tendency to “take things personally” with scorched earth results coupled with just how much money he has, I could have seen him doing something to get back at the France family. Something like aggressively buying all the non-Gibbs/Hendricks owned teams, systematically undercutting the costs for major sponsors and outright buying all of the top talent to systematically ruin the series.

I mean, look at what Jordan did to players who he admits he gaslit himself into believing slighted him…

Last edited 11 hours ago by Phonebem
NC Miata NA
Member
NC Miata NA
15 hours ago

At this point, Rivian has completely tech bullshitified away all interest I had in their cars. They are Tesla wrapped a thin veneer of Subaru-esque branding minus the CEO baggage.

Strangek
Member
Strangek
13 hours ago
Reply to  NC Miata NA

Yeah, it’s a bummer. The R3X seems so cool, but I don’t want any part of it if it is crammed with AI and attempting to drive itself. Oh well.

Space
Space
5 hours ago
Reply to  NC Miata NA

What are your feelings on Slate?

Westboundbiker
Member
Westboundbiker
15 hours ago

Rivian just needs to survive until they get that sweet, sweet R3X out. I have never aspired to have a performance car, or an upper trim, or any kind of ‘special’ version. Have I loved that they exist, and would get one if I hit the lotto, sure. But never has there been one that is in my price range (ish), but looks sick, seems like it will also make a great DD, and a family car.

OverlandingSprinter
Member
OverlandingSprinter
15 hours ago

Congratulations to Bentley, and all of that. Now take the same driver and put them in a WRX or other relatively lightweight AWD vehicle with the same tires and other mods the Flying Spur had and see if the 2:58 record stands.

Ash78
Ash78
15 hours ago

Rivian’s announcement was apparently enough to bump the stock 15%+ so far today, and that’s in a moderately down market.

I’m still in the hole with them, but not as badly anymore 🙂

Let’s just hope they don’t get too addicted to “Saying random sh*t boosts my stock price” like Elon did. RJ doesn’t strike me as that kind of person, though. In terms of all my AI skepticism, this was a pretty refreshing perspective. Balanced, even.

Spikedlemon
Spikedlemon
14 hours ago
Reply to  Ash78

Rivian goes through a boom/bust pretty regularly.

They seem to have layoffs every 4-8 months.

Ash78
Ash78
15 hours ago

Well….I’d drive on the track with the ice and snow where the studs don’t slip and the Hellas gloowwwwwww.

AMG Hammer….of the GODS.

10001010
Member
10001010
15 hours ago
Reply to  Ash78

AaaEeeeAaaaaaaAH!

Data
Data
13 hours ago
Reply to  10001010

Is that the text version of Howard Deans presidential run ending scream?

Ash78
Ash78
13 hours ago
Reply to  Data

We’re driving in Sweden and Norway and Iceland and Latvia and Finland Jåååårrrrrrrgh!

VS 57
VS 57
14 hours ago
Reply to  Ash78

I’m old enough to really not need to hear LZ anymore, but you get a star for that.

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