Sun Tzu once wrote that “Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory,” whereas tactics without any strategy is “the noise before the defeat.” I cannot articulate the strategy of every brand at the moment, but there do seem to be two obvious paths: Maintain some semblance of margin until the world stabilizes, or try to gain market share while others retreat. I think I know which strategy Kia is planning, and it’s the slow route to dominance.
Speaking of, The Morning Dump has been dominated by politics lately, and I’m not super into it today. While it’s important to not ignore politics, it’s alright to take a mental health day. Today is such a day. If you want to read about politics, there’s the President saying he wants Elon Musk’s companies to thrive after claiming he could easily destroy them; Japan admitting there’s no paperwork on the trade deal, and that much of what the Trump administration bragged about isn’t likely to happen; and the Treasury Secretary saying that Detroit automakers are “cool with” giving Japanese automakers a better deal than American automakers are getting.
It’s a totally normal time we’re living in, right? That aside, I’m interested in other things today. General Motors has lately managed to avoid the harsh warranty costs Ford has faced, but the complications of modern cars are catching up with GM, too. Ford doesn’t love doing that warranty work either, which is why the story of one mechanic is so endearing.
How do I pump myself up for a Friday? Simple, with the Tour de France Femme… chase vehicles. The bikes are fine, the cars are amazing.
Kia Joins Ford In Going After Market Share
I was ready to charge 200 mph into my breakdown of Kia’s strategy, and then I found this photo. It’s the Kia Pride “Shout.” This was a, I think, UK-only version of the Ford-Mazda-Kia small car project that also birthed the Festiva and 121. It appears to be a normal 1.3LX with tiny five-spoke wheels, Clarion radio, and a bodykit. I now want to import one of these, which is a silly thing to want, and more indication that I am a silly person.
Not to get all Art of War on you today, but you don’t interrupt your enemy when they’re making a mistake. While I don’t know that anyone at Kia is so cutthroat as to revel in the diminishment of its usual rivals (whereas some brands have historically called out the automakers they were gunning for), I haven’t seen any evidence that the Korean brand is actively trying to make life easier for Volkswagen, Mazda, Mitsubishi, or especially Nissan. The reorganization of Nissan could be viewed as a strategic retreat, and there’s no easy way that a cash-starved Nissan can simultaneously cut capacity, raise capital, and also increase market share.
Kia is in a different position. While it has significant exposure to tariffs, the brand is part of the successful Hyundai Motor Group. Being a Korean brand also has its benefits as the position of the Korean won is down relative to the US dollar. For an exporter, that’s the way you want it.
So Kia, like Ford, is going for it. What does that mean?
Here’s the company explaining it, via Reuters:
[Kia] said it aimed to increase its U.S. sales by 7% to 8% in the second half of the year even as overall auto sales in the U.S. market are expected to slump by 10%, leading to a gain in market share to over 6% from 5.1% in the first half.
It expects Carnival and K4 small car sales to drive the gains while some Japanese automakers are raising prices.
While Kia and Hyundai import about two-thirds sold in the U.S. market, making them more exposed to U.S. tariffs than major rivals, Kia said on Friday that it has not yet made detailed plans to raise prices, instead focusing on growing its U.S. business.
“We believe that we will be able to use the difficult environment as a good opportunity to level up (our market share and sales), and that’s Kia’s strength,” Kia chief financial officer Kim Seung-jun said during a conference call.
After I write this, I’m going to get a Kia Carnival Hybrid for a weeklong adventure/camping trip, so Thomas will be at the helm of TMD. I am ecstatic, to put it mildly. I love the non-hybrid Carnival, so I’m already in the bag for this version. I feel about this the way I used to feel about getting a Corvette, just to yet again establish where I’m at as a human being.
Also, to Kia’s point, I’m starting to see a lot of Kia K4s on the road, and the K4 Hatch looks incredible.
Kia deciding not to raise prices is the clearest sign it thinks it has the right products and can absorb a tariff hit/thinks South Korea is close to a deal. Through the first half of the year, Kia sales are up 7.8% to 386,460 vehicles, which puts it behind Nissan at the moment. I’m not sure that the company can make up 80,000 sales in a shrinking market, but every little bit it cuts out of Nissan is a victory. The company is already ahead of Subaru by a significant margin, as well as Mazda and Mitsubishi.
Hyundai Motor Group is also in a position to do two strategies at once, by slightly raising prices on Hyundai while mopping up sales with Kia.
GM Pays The Price For V8 Failures
The massive issues with the GM L87 6.2-liter V8 have been well-documented here and, mostly, have represented a departure from the experience of many GM customers. After the company’s massive Ignition Switch Defect Nightmare, CEO Mary Barra has made avoiding another headline-making recall a priority. She has been, on the scale of Detroit automakers, successful.
No one bats 1.000 for long, and as the Detroit Free Press explains, CFO Paul Jacobson recognizes it’s something GM needs to prevent from happening again:
Warranty costs from recalls comprised the second largest expense eating into General Motors’ profits this past quarter after tariffs, CFO Paul Jacobson said July 22.
Expenses related to its 6.2-liter V-8 engine issues and higher claims due to software issues from electric vehicles that launched in the past few years increased by $300 million compared with warranty costs last year, Jacobson told shareholders.
“Let me be clear, we are not happy with our warranty trend and are facing these challenges head-on with the top priority always being our customers,” Jacobson said after the company reported a plunge of $1.1 billion in earnings for the second quarter that the automaker attributed to tariff costs. “We provided extended warranties in some instances and (have) taken other proactive steps to support those affected, including shifting some supply of our components to our after-sales group to decrease repair times.”
General Motors has a long way to go to catch up to Ford in terms of warranty repair expenses.
Wallet Returned To Ford Worker After 11 Years
Ok, this story of a Ford employee inspecting cars and leaving a wallet in an airbox for more than a decade is inadvertently pointed after what I said above about manufacturing issues. That was not my intention. It’s just a story with a happy ending:
The wallet traveled 150,000 miles hidden in the engine bay of a 2015 Ford Edge until Chad Volk pulled out the airbox to replace the cooling fans. Volk, who owns LC Car Care, was surprised to find a well-worn Ford employee ID tucked inside with some cash and $250 in Cabela’s gift cards.
Using Facebook, Volk was able to locate and contact the man on the card, Richard Guilford, in Michigan.
The best part of this tale is that Cabela’s will recognize the gift cards, which were supposed to be used for Christmas gifts. That’s great.
It’s Friday, So Here’s A Škoda
I am ending my week on the highest note possible. This is Whitney Houston at the top of the range. I’m talking about the Tour de France Femmes avec Zwift, which will feature 32 electric or plug-in hybrid Škodas.
I love that for them.
Here’s how Škoda describes their participation:
From 26 July to 3 August, a total of 154 riders in 22 teams will set off on a route that is longer and more demanding than ever: 1,165 kilometres across nine stages, traversing France from Brittany in the west to the Alps in the east.
This year’s course includes sections through the Massif Central and the Savoie Alps, with riders tackling a record total ascent of 17,240 metres. Škoda Auto will provide the organisers with a fleet of 32 fully electric and plug-in hybrid vehicles.
Race Director Marion Rousse will oversee the event from her ‘Red Car’, a new all-electric Enyaq.
That’s the good stuff.
What I’m Listening To While Writing TMD
This is my mood for the rest of the week. It’s Kenny Loggins doing “I’m Alright” from Caddyshack. Have a great week. If you need some help, please reach out to Thomas in the Discord or David via email.
The Big Question
What is the best Korean car of all time?
Top graphic images: Kia; Nissan
Hyundai vs Nissan
Finish Him!!
Hyundai Wins
F A T A L I T Y
Flawless Victory!!lol
Probably the G90 at this point.
They’re mighty compelling used buys
I tend to look forward to Hyundai/Kia products when I rent for work. They always seem intelligently designed and even stylish? I try to avoid Nissan as they are usually just a penalty box. I’ve been ambivalent on my Toyota rentals, though the hybrid 2024 Camry was nice.
I’m just not sure I want to pull the trigger on one to actually buy. A friend had the horror story of replacing an engine in a Soul and my regular shop says that the bushings, etc… don’t hold up over time. I tend to keep cars I buy forever and don’t own a car with under 130,000 miles.
Same, they really are a good value and have nice features and design.
My GF has a 2020 Elantra with 60K that’s been very reliable for her. It’s got all the features one would want, and I think it was 21.5 at the time. It’s not a hybrid, but it’ll easily get into the 40’s for mpg. It has about 60K miles on it right now. (She actually just paid it off and is very excited about it, it’s the first time she’s without a car payment in like 15 years.)
Meanwhile, her sister has had two Hyundai SUV’s that were reliable till they weren’t, both had to have engines replaced, luckily under warranty.
Being as I put 20K+ a year on my vehicles, I’m hesitant to invest in one long term. Even though it’s probably a worse experience, I feel like a Corolla would be a better pick due to long term reliability and resale.
Same – my daily is a ’14 Camry Hybrid with 250+k miles. I bought it used but drive 15-20k a year on it. I expect it to last over 300k. My wife has an ’07 Corolla that is barely broken in with 135,000. Unfortunately Western PA is starting to show in the rear wheel arches (rust). Daughter has a 280,000 mile Prius. My old ’05 Acura MDX is finally showing signs that it is just DONE (the power steering quit on the way home from vacation last week).
The Hyundai/Kia hybrids seem to have good reputations.
I’m considering one now. The Palisade/Telluride are nice cars, lots of people seem to like them. Their motor seems to be pretty solid overall. Arguably a notch or so nicer inside with bells/whistles and at least equal to the Honda in fit/finish.
A gas Grand Highlander has a newish turbo 4 cylinder I’m not crazy about adopting. The hybrid Grand Highlander is $6-7k more expensive even before the dealer makes you beg to buy one.
Wish the Palisade hybrid was coming sooner, but there is always something new on the horizon, can’t wait forever.
That Sentra has wicked stance, yo.
I would vote for the Kia Soul as the best Korean car of all time. This car offers a ton of cargo and passenger space relative to its footprint. They are also one of few cheap cars where it appears some thought was given to styling. I think they look far better than similar small box vehicles (i.e. the Nissan Cube or Scion xB) as well as all modern budget-oriented CUVs. Plus, you could get them in an actual color, which is nice.
The Soul wasn’t (and probably still isn’t – I haven’t driven the current generation car) exciting to drive, but it wasn’t awful either. Overall, the Soul is an affordable, versatile, economical, and relatively stylish transportation appliance. It may not be the most exciting or luxurious Korean car, but it is the one that does the best job at performing its intended purpose.
It’s not exciting to drive. But it’s “fine.” And for long trips, the fuel economy is outstanding which you would not expect for a little box.
I rented one once and liked it a lot! I love them to drive and rent, just suspect to actually own long-term.
I’m looking to replace my old 2005 Acura MDX and am flirting with the idea of a Telluride. I’ll probably go used Honda/Acura or Toyota though.
I completely agree with you, and put my money where my mouth is and bought one for my mother (and after testing everything in the <$30K class, it was almost the cheapest and the car she liked the best, by a LOT). Not anything I would ever own for myself, but for a lady of a certain age it is the perfect little transportation module with the right amount of interior space. A simple, honest, what you see is what you get sort of car.
I had one as a rental in Vegas circa 2012, and I liked it at the time. Pretty fuel efficient, and room for 3 people’s luggage behind the back seat. Wasn’t “fun” to drive, but it served its purpose.
The Soul is the vehicle that gave Kia it’s foothold in the states in my opinion. I absolutely love mine. I will drive that little green box (AKA the Booger Wagon) until the wheels fall off. It’s easy for an older person to enter/exit, and it’s quite peppy when it’s in sport mode. I sold my Ram because I never drove it anymore after the Soul joined the fleet. I keep seeing rumors lately that this year is the Souls last year and it will be discontinued soon. If Kia ever kills the Soul, they have lost their way, and me!
N Vision 74. I do not care that it is not production. Its gorgeous and makes me feel things.
Kia/Hyundai are brands I just can’t go with.They don’t hold up and have no value after a few years.Pay the extra money and buy a Honda or Toyota.They last and retain their value.
Probably the second generation Tiburon. It’s the first time where I genuinely noticed a Korean car in a non-disparaging fashion.
It was a decent looking “sporty” coupe, and that’s all it has to be for most people in that segment for the market. Be practical enough, look sharp, and give some sense of fun to its owners compared to the NPC-mobile they would’ve otherwise had.
That’s all that segment needs to do for a buyer: feel a bit special. It did that job.
Interesting choice. You would not choose the follow-up on that for the Hyundai Genesis Coupe?
No. Because the 2n generation Tiburon was the FIRST one to show me they could do something more than just attempt to focus on the basics.
They had to start somewhere, and that was the FIRST time I looked at a Korean car and thought, “Huh. That actually looks sharp for what it is.”
I had a red one. To be honest, the NVH was pretty bad but it was darn handsome.
My neighbor had a 2nd gen Tiburon for years. His girlfriend still has a Genisis coupe. To me the quarter window looks like a glass guitar pick with the way it’s shaped so oddly.
My wife still wants a Velositor (sp?). She has the hybrid Ionic. The mileage blows my last century car stable out the door. I think a used Stinger would be the best Korean car, but I actually list for an Ionic 5. Just not the price
I feel like the top shot photo could’ve been a Kia with monster tires crushing a Pao, but maybe Jason veto’d that.
Best Korean car is tough as I feel like there are a lot of cool ones we don’t get here, like the Inster. Or does my Chevy Bolt count? It’s like 60% LG, which means Lucky Goldstar, which they should totally lean into, it’s not like they’re ADT and have nothing to do with telegraphs any more, they’re a Lucky Goldstar! That’s universal!
Best Korean car of all time, you ask?
Why it’s the very Reasonably Priced Chevrolet Lacetti, of course.
Great song choice. I crank it every so often. His best song IMO.
Great call on the Caddyshack theme song. Probably my favorite Kenny Loggins song, and he’s had a lot of good ones.
Hahahaha Korean cars BAD Korean car engine go BOOM Korean car JUNK just buy a HONDA you idiot! I knew a guy 10 years ago whose Elantra sucked ass, fuck Hyundai and Kia I wish profound suffering upon them!
-every comment section on an article that mentions Korean cars forever and always
See also: Ford, GM, Stellantis, VW, Nissan, BMW, Land Rover, etc.
If you aren’t Toyota or maybe Honda, you’re fair game.
I was talking with one of my interns who has a Hyundai, telling him he should keep up with oil changes/level and watch out for engine issues.
He replied that Hyundai has already replaced his car’s engine.
Twice.
The actual numbers that you can find on the cars online more or less suggest their reliability is average. What you want to make of all those studies is up to you. Everyone throws anecdotes about them being the worst cars in the world but all of that is just internet he said she said stuff.
Do I think they’re incredible cars? Not really, I’ve been open with everyone here about my experience owning one having ups and downs and the fact that I’m unlikely to buy another. But I also don’t think they’re as horrendous as they’re made out to be and that the groupthink gets a little carried away sometimes. This thread is already proving my point.
I don’t know how you define average.
Some engines are just better.
Tried to sell a 240 Volvo engine and simply wasn’t possible.
The rest of the cars are reduced to dust before the engines wear out.
My Dodge diesel is approaching 500 K miles too.
It’s easy to make an engine last forever when it’s making rather less than 50hp per liter, and tends to be driven by people who can’t find full throttle with a map.
I owned a dozen redblock engine’d Volvos (and I did actually have one blow up). They are good engines, but there are lots of good engines out there. And quite a few bad ones. BMW managed to make some of the very best and the very worst inline sixes ever at the same time (N52 n/a six vs. N54 twin-turbo six). You makes yer choice and takes yer chances.
The only notable difference I’m aware of is a very rigid block, and basic good practices.
I know some that got 700 HP out of that block in a daily driver.
I had fun watching other cars flounder trying to follow the slow Volvo through off ramps.
I first noticed Volvos after an ipd 145? beat everything in the next faster class in autocross for their state.
You can get 700hp out of a redblock for a while. A short while relative to the usual <115hp.
There are lots and lots and lots of very ordinary engines that can go just as far as a redblock. And just like Volvos, the rest of the car usually falls apart before the engines fail. Volvo did make an *excellent* choice of what automatic to bolt behind it, but even then, having to deal with so little power has to benefit longevity. But at the end of the day, like the safety reputation of Volvos, I think it’s as much demographics as engineering. Stolid slow boring cars largely owned by stolid careful people who were very good at following maintenance schedules.
145s with their upper and lower A-arm front suspension can be made to handle VERY well, and notably better than the McPherson-strut front suspension 240s. The problem is that they can handle well, or they can ride well, but they can’t do both at the same time. I can guarantee that cone-demon 145 rode like an absolute buckboard wagon on a rough road. That’s the trouble with simple live-axles vs. more sophisticated arrangements. And of course that more complex front suspension cost more to build and had lots more parts to wear out and replace over time. TANSTAAFL.
I’ve seen results of crashes and photos of the 240 after crashes, and the results are extraordinary compared to most.
So good the excellent frame shop we used to have here praised the car, but told me not to ever bring me one with a bent frame.
They curl upwards as one unit in a hard crash.
Resisting being run over by a monster truck didn’t hurt Volvo any either.
Got a call from a 240 owner after the derecho here.
Their car was crushed by a giant tree and sitting flush on the ground, suspension wise.
After the tree was removed, it sprang back up and they were actually able to drive it until they found another.
At least one door worked, somehow.
In 1976 they were probably tied for second with Saab behind Mercedes. 1976 was a hell of a long time ago. By 1993, they were rather behind the rest of the premium cars, including the other Volvos. There were never that amazing in side impacts, and I doubt they would impress much in a modern offset low overlap crash test. Today I would rather crash my mother’s KIA Soul than a 240.
Maybe, but I won’t be buying any new cars soon, especially Kia or Hyundai.
Owning any of those here puts a target on you for theft and robbery, no matter how effectively I theft proof them, and they’re not even bright enough to know which ones are not easy.
I’m mostly in an enhanced Dodge 2500 anyway.
I have an early LTD wagon with the 50 mph bumpers, and I’ve seen people walk away from those after being hit by freight trains, so if crash rating was my only issue, that’s a good choice.
I don’t worry much in the pickup as long as I don’t drop it off a cliff or roll over.
Idiots still like to camp in my braking zone.
Since they used a ginsu missile on a Taliban driven Kia, I can’t help reading their logo as ‘Killed In Action’, so that’s unfortunate.
FYI, I like delayed kill switches for theft, but I still prefer being a lesser urban target.
I don’t worry at home now.
I just prefer to live in places where I don’t need to worry much about having a car stolen. Car theft is barely a thing in Maine OR God’s Waiting Room, FL. And if one is stole, I have really good insurance.
And I have never much been worried about crashing – they are actually extremely rare events. Especially if you pay attention to what you are doing. That the cars I prefer (other than old British and Italian crocks) tend to be very safe is more a function of them being good cars than any intentions on my part.
The only KIA product I have any interest in is the Soul, because it’s the reasonably priced car my sainted mother liked best (we test drove ALL of them), and it suits her needs perfectly. So I bought her one. It’s fine. But not something I would ever own for myself, and I find it hateful to drive. I did test drive a Stinger when they first came out – this multiple BMW owner was seriously underwhelmed after all the buff book hype about it. A steaming pile of meh. I suppose a Camry driver would be amazed by one. The various Genesis I have had for rentals have been underwhelming to me as well. Hertz has a ton of them and gives them out as upgrades. They are “fine” but I don’t see the point of a cheaper copy of a German car, just buy the real thing.
Maine I can buy, but Florida?
Florida is a magnet for every kind of crime, same as California.
Known for attracting serial killers and other unstable characters. I met one in Tallahassee, and he was such a dumbass, when he was on Most Wanted he was caught before the show ended. Even though I never lived there, I saw the random inexplicable road rage they are known for.
As far as avoiding crashes, most crashes seem to be the result of another driver suddenly doing something inexplicable.
I have been in some northeastern locations where drivers were cautious and polite, so very easy to avoid there. But those are rare.
My last serious crash was in this smaller town, off the high traffic bypass on a side street and pulled off the street and parked.
Ten at night and virtually no traffic.
Some lunatic came through the light turning left onto an empty street at over 60 mph, went wide and hit the rear of my ranger hard enough to spin it around and give me a concussion, went up on two wheels and flung everything out the window!
Police report said “he was not looking through the windshield!”
More interesting though are studies on skilled drivers at all levels, including race instructors and tactical drivers vs the general population.
The average driver has zero emergency skills or training.
Results are that highly skilled drivers are not measurably better at avoiding accidents altogether, but they are dramatically better at not freezing up and reacting to minimize secondary collisions which are commonly more serious than initial collisions.
At a certain level, drivers learn how to place cars to minimize injury when they are headed for a barrier on the track.
Even in Germany, with their high standards for driving, average drivers are passive after initial collisions.
In tactical driving, it’s all about controlling risk.
I’ve been involved in some of that, and it’s fascinating. Not what I expected.
So we are different, and at top levels very different, but we still can’t control what other drivers will do
The problem with industry statistics like JD Power and the like is that they don’t extend past the break-in period. Pretty much all of those studies only look at cars in the first 3-5 years MAX – which is when I’m looking to purchase them from their original owner.
That and they treat all “issues” the same. An old man that can’t figure out how to pair his phone is treated the same as a complete engine failure.
The unfortunate thing is I used to view them very favorably. My dad had an 04 Elantra GT that’s still on the road in my cousin’s hands today with over 275,000 miles on it and very few issues beyond the required maintenance.
With as nice as they’ve made the cars in the last 5 years I’m interested in a lot of their options, but there are just too many stories of dramatic engine failures.
I also think that engines blowing up is a problem across the board right now due to the downsizing necessitated by emissions standards. Mass market forced induction products are having issues across the board…hell even our reliability lord and savior Toyota just had replace a bunch of their turbo V6s.
Are Hyundai and Kia reliability stalwarts? Lol of course not. I had a serious issue with mine last year. But I also don’t think they’re the festering hunks of junk that enthusiasts make them out to be.
It seems to be one particular engine family of the several that they make that is the problem child, no? The 2.4L four, IIRC? The smaller fours and the sixes seem to be fine. Anecdata – I have two friends who had fairly new Hyundais/KIAs blow up and had looooong waits for warranty repairs that left them very salty. Like six months plus to get parts with no loaner.
Correct, it was the Theta II engine family the one that had notorious issues. the smaller Nu engine (Elantra) and Gamma (Rio, Soul, Veloster) and the Lambda V6 are ok for the most part.
I did a fair bit or research before buying my mother a Soul. They didn’t seem to have any particularly notable issues.
At least once they started putting immobilizers in ALL of them, though I rather blame the tiktok generation idiots for that rather than Hyundai/KIA. Afterall, they weren’t any easier to steal than the billion other cars that were made without immobilizers for 100 years or so. That a bunch of dipshit kids made it a cool and fun thing to exploit was not really their problem.
I think being able to use a USB drive as a key made it a little easier.
Also the U.S. manufactured engines have a higher percentage of issues. Some of the Korean-made Thetas and Nus were also problematic, but most of the Korean-made cars are very good and I’ve never heard of any chronic issues with the Czech-built engines and cars (thus I expect any Elantra GT to be an extremely good buy). Most Europeans and Australasians view Hyundai/Kia brands as very reliable, ironically. But to be fair, they have Chinese brands to compare them to.
True, which is partly why I have a pair of decade-plus old Mazdas with NA 4 cylinders.
I’m still just salty because I like the styling/packaging/value of the Hyundai and Kia family sized hybrids, but I just can’t do a high strung turbo 4 AND an electric motor AND a multi-ratio automatic AND a battery AND known engine issues from the brand.
And when it comes to the light/medium duty hybrids, no one does it better than Toyota. It’s just that the Highlander and Sienna are so “appliance-y”. I don’t know if I can bring myself to do it.
So I guess bring on the CX-90 lol
Lol we’re about to look at a CX90 for my wife….but her friend just got a loaded to the gills MDX (having rich parents with an open checkbook policy must be nice) so tbd if she’ll want something with a more prestigious badge now haha
I worked on the current MDX when I was at Honda a few years back. It’s a great car, and will almost definitely be more reliable than the CX-90. But I’m a sucker for Mazda and PHEV would be great for practicality (though less reliable than the MDX NA V6) and the straight 6 is the more interesting “fun” option.
We want something hybrid, so anything with that ancient V6 is a non starter. The PHEV CX90s have been having a lot of teething pains and my wife’s commute is currently longer than the EV range on some days….so the mild hybrid setup in the base straight 6 seems like the best idea for us, and 24/28 is nothing to sneeze at in a vehicle that large.
She likes the Highlander Hybrid as well and could maybe be talked into a Sienna but good fucking luck getting into either unless you want the basest trim possible or the $60,000 Lexus Lite trims….
CX90 Sports are going for a little under 45 near us and it seems like quit a bit of car for the money. In that trim you get some cool styling details, the upgraded audio, more driver assistance stuff, some fancier lighting, etc.
Statistics inform people on a cerebral level. Lived experiences (and experiences of close relations) create emotional responses. One lasts a lot longer and is held a lot deeper than the other.
That’s one half, and the other half are people saying “they’ve changed actually! and look at the designs, they’ve really been doing a great job lately!” But if you cover up the timestamps, the entire conversation could be from a dozen years ago, when they were on that first renaissance wave where they added design but also GDI engines and removed immobilizers. (we’ve had at least 1 H/K product in my family at a given time almost consistently since ’07)
Have they improved? Definitely.
Are the products more compelling than ever? Definitely.
Are they still being built and sold like bargain basement vehicles? In a lot of cases yes, unfortunately.
They ARE bargain basement vehicles, for the most part. And that is perfectly fine, they fill a need in the market.
I didn’t know my father frequented car websites. He’s in his 80’s.
He formed his opinion in the 80’s and 90’s when Korean products and safety practices weren’t the best. See: Korean Airlines crashes, Sampoong Department Store, LG Goldstar VCR, early 90’s Hyundai penalty boxes, etc.
He also worked for Mercedes from the 70’s thru mid 90’s so his benchmark might have been higher.
Yeah but they sort of earn it to a large extent right? Kia Boyz and lack of immobilizers. Engines catching on fire in the news and they don’t do anything about it.
This wasn’t the 90’s, these things are recent enough to question the long term commitment of the dealers and manufacturer in taking some responsibility for failings.
My problem with Kia and Hyundai is that their cars are just not very engaging to drive. Steering is completely disconnected, handling feel is absent as is brake feel. They’re strictly appliances. I rent a lot of cars and I’m always happy to drop off a Kia or a Hyundai. I’m sure they’re good cars but I just want one. But a Nissan Sentra is one of my favorite rental cars, just a pleasure to drive, smooth and comfortable with good handling. Even the CVT transmission works well.
My preferred rental in that segment is the VW Jetta, very good driving experience while also getting 40MPG easily.
Rental spec Nissans tend to make satisfactory rental cars.
As long as one adjusts his expectation, they are perfectly adequate transportation tools.
But they work extremely well. I’ve rented a Sonata, Corolla, Odyssey, and Pacifica in the last few years and by far and away the Hyundai had the best adaptive cruise system. All the others felt like they were on their learners’ permit, braking late and hard when detecting traffic with lane keeping features diabolically bad to the point of needing to be disabled.
Meanwhile the Sonata braked early, gradually, and was even competent enough to steer itself around highway bends without jerking the car around. It’s a vastly better system than any other mainstream brands offer right now, and is available on even the lowest end models. I think a huge problem that goes into regulating these sorts of driver assists is that there’s such a massive gap in competency between each brand.
I’ll vote Stinger for best Korean car.
Hear, hear. The smart-money alternative to the A5 Sportback and BMW 430 Gran Sport. It just needs “sport” somewhere in the name 🙂
You might be right. I can’t recall any other car doing a 360 while jumping aramp.
So someone went 150k without anyone looking at or replacing their air filter? Or even more unbelievable, a ford edge went 150k without needing any work done that required the airbox being pulled out? Also GM should’ve seen the problems coming with the 6.2 when they made every cylinder participate in AFM.
Actually unless you are in a really dusty environment, you might be better off not touching your airbox for the first 100K-150K. The pressure drop increase is negligible and the dust/dirt you’ll introduce when you change it is MUCH higher than what tiny amount may get through the filter. Also consider that a gas engine is throttled, so unless you spend all your time at WOT, the higher pressure drop through the filter makes no difference to your pumping losses despite claims by those trying to sell you parts/service.
My 07 Ford Focus has a ‘lifetime’ air filter. Has a little spring loaded gauge thing that supposed to move to red if pressure differential is out of spec.
After spending time in high desert in a Ford Tempo, I checked the air filter and the air box was so well designed there was no dust anywhere in the system.
It was everywhere else in the engine bay though.
I kept the speed down out there, but very impressed.
This has nothing to do with AFM. It’s out-of-spec bearings in the bottom end.
Kia has an advantage that they are making cars that are feature rich and don’t look cheap, but are very affordable. I rented a Hyundai Elantra (which isn’t that different from a K4) and it was impressive for the price. I had some complaints (the on center feel of the steering was non-existent and the keyfob was atrocious), but it also had a lot of features that I wouldn’t have expected for the price. If you turned on the lane holding feature, you didn’t really need the on-center feel because the car kept you in the center of the lane and the adaptive cruise control kept the distance for you. It would essentially drive the car for you on the freeway in a car that was about as inexpensive as you can get in the US. I’ve sat in the K4 and it seemed pretty nice too. I don’t know how they will be for longevity, and it also means you have to deal with the Kia dealerships, but for people who don’t research that stuff, it would be easy to choose the Kia.
The Telluride, even more than anything Genesis made or makes, showed me that Kia/Hyundai was able to make a truly class leading vehicle that met Americans’ buying preferences right where they were.
The Telluride might be the #1 three-row car I see on a daily basis. They definitely nailed it, even if 20′ of wraparound screens isn’t my jam.
Hyundai were marketing very upscale cars in the middle eàst ages ago.
And they pronounce their name correctly there, also.
What is the best Korean car of all time?
The one that Adrian is driving right now lol
Everybody Ssangyong tonight! (everybody have fun tonight)
The part of the 6.2 fiasco that feels the most “GM” is that their fixes include nothing more than an oil change. It is just such an obvious way to let the world know that GM truly doesn’t give a crap. GM’s only saving grace is that its competition for full-size body-on-frame trucks and SUVs is Ford and Dodge/Ram, which aren’t any better.
GMC=Got Mechanic Coming.
I’m drawing a blank on today’s question.
Maybe my Kia Soul…lol
Matt, have a great time off!
I mean the Sequoia is out there, but is clearly more niche than the domestic competitors. I have said it before, but the TTV6 Toyota recalls were triggered with around 1/10th the number of failures as the GM V8 debacle, and every single qualified engine was replaced without question, while GM is dodging replacements until they fail. The other critical difference is the Toyota engines failed because of a machining debris issue, while the L87’s are failing because of bad design that can’t be fixed. I don’t want to be a textbook Toyota fanboy, but I like to think my allegiance is based on some evidence.
I don’t think your comment is fanboyish at all; it’s just a rational assessment. The point about the reason for the failures on the L87 is an important one that most people overlook. Everyone figures that the first year of a new model is the riskiest because not only is the design untested, but the production line is also untested. A production line issue is relatively easy to change. A core design issue isn’t.
What is the actual issue? I have yet to hear, not that I pay much attention to GM V8s, or anything else GM.
From what I understand, crankshafts may be made out of spec, causing things to wear quickly and send too much metal into the system.
GM says they will inspect them and replace the out-of-spec engines. For the ones they say are within spec, they will extend the warranty. Part of the fix for the in-spec engines is also to use a different oil.
So it doesn’t give warm fuzzies, given that GM ignored the issues for years despite knowing the engine had issues, especially since they have been making them since 2011.
Why won’t Toyota replace my defective from the factory temperature gauge then, especially after promising to?
I wouldn’t trust Toyota to manufacture a nail!
That’s not a question I can answer, I don’t work for Toyota. That said, Toyota literally wrote the book on modern manufacturing techniques (Toyota Production System, Kaizen, KanBan, Lean Manufacturing, etc) that every single company I have worked for has followed. If you don’t trust Toyota to manufacture anything, then good luck.
They produced cars with faulty gauges for about two years or more before fixing it.
Never recalled, just issued bulletins, so unknown number of cooked blocks.
Temperature gauges are so heavily buffered they rise to center normally, then stay there, even if fire burned the car to the axles.
They now want me to pay a dealer thousands for their defect, then they will consider reimbursing me.
What if the head is already toast?
No comment from Toyota.
Why are you so stuck on temperature gauges? This is standard practice nowadays with every manufacturer. Meanwhile my Volvo doesn’t even have one.
Because it is stuck!
No gauge would be more accurate.
I can’t fathom a car without a temperature gauge!
“The other critical difference is the Toyota engines failed because of a machining debris issue”
This has been a problem for almost 4 years. How could a machining debris issue persist on some 2025 models? That’s what Toyota officially stated, but it looks like they haven’t figured it out (or they did but won’t disclose it) yet. You can’t rule out a design issue or weak bearings yet
What is the best Korean car of all time?
The N Vision 74, if they ever decide to actually build it. Anything that looks that good must be good, regardless of powertrain. I will not be convinced otherwise.
Best of luck to Kia in trying to overthrow the absolute sales juggernaut that is Nissan.
The more I look at the five-spoke wheels on that Kia with four lugs, the more my brain hurts.
Had to scroll back and look. I understand. It looks like a starfish from Sponge Bob
What is the best Korean car of all time?
Daewoo Lanos
You’re forgetting about the world-beating Daewoo Nubira.
the 1999 Michelin SCCA ProRally production class champion Nubira that is
Daewoo BOUNCE
Bobby “Tank” Lee
Pontiac Lemans
“What is the best Korean car of all time?”
The original Hyundai Excel.
Oh yeah, what a beaut those were. The courier company I worked for in college had one that Hyundai gifted them to try to get the business. They kept buying Escorts, which really says a LOT. It mostly sat in the garage as a spare car, as absolutely everyone hated driving the thing. Compared to ’80s Ford Escorts…
But I guess it was a big step up from a Hyundai Pony (though I think those were only sold in Canada, not the US). They have come a LONG way.