You know what I haven’t done in a while? Checked out what’s new on the Alibaba Vehicles and Transportation pages! As you may recall, that is where I was able to source the legendary Changli way way back in 2020. Wow, the unboxing video was five years ago‽ Holy crap. How does that happen, this “time” moving thing? Unreasonable. Anyway, I’m still delighted by the shocking value of the Changli, that $1200 (with batteries) surprisingly usable car, so I thought I’d check and see what the new innovations and styles in the sub-basement ultra bottom of the car market are. I’m sure the current tariff situation will potentially make these all a lot more expensive, but let’s just put that out of our minds and see what’s out there.
By the way, who noticed the interrobang in the preceding paragraph? I’m guessing if you noticed it at all, you appreciated that.
Back to Alibaba cars; I took a little stroll through their offerings, specifically looking at the cheapest cars they offer. I’m happy to say there’s still a good variety at the very bottom, and prices seem to be holding fairly steady, for the most part. It’s clear there’s new styling influences and some minor technological improvements, but overall I don’t think these are all that different than my Changli. But let’s look!
First, as a baseline, I found the same Changli I have, the Freeman, which is still for sale. The price has gone up a bit – it’s $1450 now, which I think includes the batteries, so it’s only about $250 more. Interestingly, it’s looking pretty dated now when compared to the variety of newer tiny electric vehicles, like this one:
This model from… Tianjin (though I think a number of other manufacturers make basically the same one) has a more sleek and refined look than the Changli, and is a lot cheaper, at $755! Wow! The specs seem pretty close to the Changli: 1.1 hp motor, a likely top speed of about 20-25 mph and a range of about 25 miles, I’d guess. I can say from experience that these numbers are good enough for way more uses than you’d think, if you’re in the right environment. I’m impressed by this one!
Of course, that price requires you to buy eight of them. But at these prices, why wouldn’t you?
Look at the back here; even these “old man happy cars” have adopted that full-width design detail that houses the taillights, like so many modern cars have. It’s also two-tone! Something selling for less than $800 has no right looking this good. And check out the interior:
It’s pretty damn nice! I also see the little knob that I think is the “hill-climbing” gear, which I’m pretty sure I had at least some hand in making happen, after my kid beat my Changli running up a hill.
There are others that feel a little more like my Changli in body design and construction, though the stylistic influences have changed. This one, for example, has a very Lincoln-like front end.
There’s also a number of versions of these that use what appears to be a narrower body design and tandem seating. I wonder if these are targeted at really congested areas? The price is about double the cheapest ones, which makes me wonder if they offer any other improvements? The suspension does seem a little more robust.
This one is similar to skinny up there, but looks a bit widened. The bumpers feel a little more substantial, too. I kind of like the bug-like look of these.
There’s a variation of these roundy insectoid-like ones that are three-wheelers, and are priced less than their four-wheeled siblings, which makes sense. Still, this one is like $400 more than the $750 Tianjin four-wheeler and I’m not clear why? This whole market is Byzantine.
Some of the three wheelers get pretty pricey, too, like this one that is $2100 if you buy five, but $5000 for one? Why’s it so much? Because of that very spread-wing eagle-like front lighting assembly?
This body style is common, and it’s a bit more expensive – about $2300 if you buy 5 or more – but it’s also making a face-melting three horsepower. That’s triple the output of the Changli! I bet this thing could hit 35 mph or more, easy.
Clearly, there’s a horsepower race going on over there. This one makes a shocking five horsepower! Five horses! That’s an entire handful of horses! With that kind of power, this thing could be a really viable city car, and I’m not even kidding. If you and seven friends agree this makes the most sense you’ve ever heard, they’re only $3155 each! The body looks a bit more refined than, say, my Changli, even if it looks like the front fender trim is missing in that picture.
If you need something bigger, there’s some amazing options, too. Look how cheap this four-door Heibi New Speed is! $589 (for 10)! Hot clams that’s cheap! How? The body design and construction looks a lot like my Changli, and I suspect it’s very similar in drivetrain and build/build quality. I’m sure it’s not quick with four people in there, but still!
There’s a surprising variety of four-door dirt-cheap options from Hebei. Here’s another sub-$600 one, and the minimum order is only two! You could get two of these for like $1200! Holy crap. And there’s multiple body styles! In addition to the one above, you could have this bold look, too:
I love that strange cocentric-oval not-grille there, and those skeptical-looking headlights. There seems to be a few other styles, too. Should we do a group order of these? Get like 30 and do a big rally?
Changli seems to be having some styling fun, with things like this G-Wagen-like four-door one. There’s other more blatant copycat G-Wagen options, too, if that’s your manner of jam:
This one is $2180 for just one? That’s amazing. How does it look this good for so cheap? As long as you can park this in places where no one can get less than 50 feet close to it and you only park next to bonsai trees and other sub-scale things, you can convince people you rock a G-Wagen.
Even with those G-Wagen and other lookalikes, that doesn’t mean there’s not plenty of independent design going on in the ultra-cheap tiny EV space. Look at this Newspeed: it’s a very modern-feeling design, and one that doesn’t seem to pull from the same pool of so many of these Changli-style bodies: all those panels look pretty bespoke.
It’s still just a 1.3 hp motor, but it feels a bit more refined than many, and $2,250 isn’t bad.
I’m happy to see that this market still seems to be thriving and innovating; the floor seems to have dropped to $500-$600 from $700 or so, and I’m really, really curious to know what these cheapest cars are like. Are they as good as I’ve found my Changli to be? Maybe when these tariffs finally settle down we can check. In the meantime, I can dream my cheap-ass dreams.
I think what fascinates me the most about these is that there are, apparently, enough people buying these plentiful menagerie of designs to make the engineering and tooling costs pencil out. Like even in the lowest labor cost areas you can find, it still takes a fair chunk of time and effort to put together a mold for the plastic body panels.
I can’t link a picture, but something you’ll probably find surprising is the amount of these that is actually sheetmetal. I saw one when I was traveling that had been minorly crashed, and it shocked me that what appeared like it should be a plastic front bumper was all metal.
Nice use of the interrobang! Of course, because there’s no dedicated interrobang key on the keyboard, it’s typically easier to end your sentences like this?!?!? (which was a very inappropriate use)
Wait, your keyboard doesn’t have a dedicated interrobang key?!
Strange, Alt + 8253 should work but it gives me =, however Alt + 0191 does produce the expected upside-down question mark here: ¿. AFAIK I haven’t changed any region settings on this pc other than to make it 24H time and dates in YYYY-MM-DD format.
On Windows: press the Windows and full stop/period keys: it’s in the “General punctuation” list, along with ⸘
Torch, this got me looking at proper small EVs in the Chinese market.
Check out the Wuling MiniEV lineup with 200-300km ranges and pricing starting at the equivalent of ~$6000 for something that can move at up to 100km/h.
Truly impressive people movers.
Another reason for the US big 3 to be concerned about Chinese cars; they appear to have closed the build quality gap. 😉
If I recall the narrow body models are classified as scooters and can be parked in bicycle and moped areas and without any permits. They are very popular with light delivery couriers since they can basically pull right up to the door of any location. Also for last mile use. You often see lots of them parked around train stations.
Interrobangs need to become more accepted punctuation. Most typefaces don’t even offer them, which is dumb because they reflect a common vocal tone or thought, they’ve been around for over 60 years, and the alternative of stacking punctuations looks hackey. I even named one of my custom bikes after it.
Torch: “Look, there’s no easy way to say this so I’m just gonna’ say it. I want to see other cheap cars.”
Changli: (silently sheds a tear from the left headlight)
Torch: “Um, it’s not you. It’s me.
Changli: (backs away with just the hum of the electric motor hanging in the air)
(fade to black)
*chainsaw noises in the darkness*
The first Hebei is giving me “Slate” vibes from the front end.
I love that the quantity range of 50 to 2,999 gets you the same discount. Quite the spread.
Also the final example, the Newspeed reminds me quite a bit of the Ford Puma, of which there is an electric version: https://ev-database.org/img/auto/Ford_Puma_Gen-E/Ford_Puma_Gen-E-01@2x.jpg
Anyone know if these show in the “Villages” in Florida? I mean I see everyone driving golf carts, but I would think these might be nicer in some ways
If it doesn’t come with a wildly out-of-place “FASHION” decal from the factory, I’m a NO at any price.
What if I told you it has “Live strong happy dream” in large, bold lettering in 3 prominent places?
I was really hoping to see more of this sort of thing on my last trip to China but everything was disappointingly normal-looking EV sedans and CUVs.
Every once in a while some YouTube person will buy one of the ones that look like some kind of luxury SUV. The build quality appears getting better. Plus they have 12v ac down and very cheap so most of them actually have ac. Maybe they can be like the mini excavators. It used to be a few people trying to sell them for $10k. It’s the about same with these things when someone imports them. But now you see those mini ex for about $5k shipped to you from a us warehouse. The factories will sell you one for about $3k but will cost about the same in shipping and fees if you are lucky. So the importers buying in bulk and shipping full containers actually ends up saving so much it’s cheaper to buy from them. Like so much of the low volumetric weight stuff.
I can’t tell from the pictures – do any of them now include slots for a chainsaw access in the battery boxes?
I do not like auto racing in any form but I feel like I would really enjoy seeing all these cars in a racing series specific to this segment of oddball, cheap cars.
Heck, they could power them with “slots” so you wouldn’t have to stop. 1/2 scale slot car racing.
These need to be legalized over here. We need more cheap new cars.
I feel like this would best hosted at a place like VIR, team endurance style. Each team gets five cars to pace and charge throughout the day. Could maybe even get a whole 5 hours of racing in, similar to the Kei Car racing series in Thailand that Mighty Car Mods has been competing in, for far less money.
That race that MCM has done is at Sepang, in Malaysia. Would be great fun to do one in these though, maybe at a smaller track.
You are correct, stupid Swiss Cheese memory…
These are just mobility scooters with no speed limiters, and a plastic shell.
I see the appeal at these super low prices, but where do you (safely) use them?
SidewalksBikepathsPaved roads in front of an F150HOA Communities?
I *think* I could use them in my local neighborhood, as long as I don’t try to drive them on a street with a speed limit above 25; which would cover me getting to the local market and pharmacy, even the record store if I plan my route properly. Would save a lot of wear and tear on my cars as that’s most of my driving use cases, but it would probably seriously endanger my life, and those of my children.
Yeah, that would be my concern. I don’t want to drive something this small and slow with full size trucks rolling around. In well designed communities you can use them to supplant cars for a lot, but I would worry about everybody else.
Motorcycles also provide 0 safety, but at least they can get out of their own way better than whatever is trying to run you down.
Yeah sadly a lot of my runabout activities include my children, which is my biggest concern. At least once a month a multiple fatality accident occurs in my area, from someone running a redlight or turning into oncoming traffic. Most of those happen on the higher-speed roads, but there are lots of people flagrantly ignoring the 25 MPH speed limit on the street outside of my home. I barely trust that my 2003 Civic will save us in such and incident, I know a $700 electric tin can won’t.
I used mine all over the college town I live in. Any public street 35 mph or less. I got groceries, took my kid to school, saw friends, parked ANYWHERE I felt like on the crowded main street, picked up food, committed and fought crime, you name it. It’s great!
To Changli: the cause of–and solution to–all life’s problems.
Way to rip off Homer’s “Alcohol” speech
It’s a perfectly cromulent adaptation.
Yeah, but then all the money got to Jason’s head and he had to get himself a luxury car with 29?!? (Well, at some point) HP, made in stylish France.
It used to be about the MUSIC, man!
That list was all past tense. Have you retired it?(just read in the lower comments that it’s awaiting new batteries)
This is exactly how they’re meant to be used. With China rolling out the 15min radius concept for bigger cities (everything you need for daily life should be within a 15min walk; fresh produce market, community centre, family medicine clinic, subway network, etc), these types of vehicles are perfect for the elderly to get around, mums taking kids to the clinic or community centre, or just going to the market to get some fresh fruit and veg
I visit family in South Dakota annually; every year there are more ATVs on the street, even in the larger cities. Could see these catching on where the laws are .. lax? not enforced?
I just saw one driving around down the main street of town. I’m assuming license got pulled and the old guy didn’t want to walk but still look better than the normal Hamilton Harley.
A guy I know had a stroke so lost his license. He bought one so that he can get from his house to his farm/vineyard.
I just finished a hand controls my brother’s used golf cart. If he can figure out driving it, he may be moving up to a changli with a ramp
“Should we do a group order of these? Get like 30 and do a big rally?”
Yes, please.
I foresee an epic One-Make Racing series. Maybe as a curtain-raiser for LeMons events?
Given the way those look, it could be a charity run called the “Hypnocar Race To Beat Myopia.”
I am not interested in these vehicles looking “refined” or “good”. I want obnoxious graphics, plastic bull bars and all of the accessories. Part of what makes the Changli so outstanding is its over-the-top looks.
Also, that red Heibei New Speed wouldn’t look out of place in the “Money for Nothing” music video.
I had to go back and look again but you’re absolutely right about the Heibei. Excellent.
Wow – some of those are really inexpensive! 😮
I’m struggling a bit with the low specified power outputs, though.
For reference, 735 watts of electrified motoring gumption = roughly 1 horsepower. (Assuming 100% efficiency, but we’ll ignore that – blah, blah, spherical cow, etc)
I’m looking at motor kits to drive an electric motorcycle, and 5000W – or about 6.8 ponies – seems to be a sweet spot in the market. On Amazon there are kits available that include the controller and other ancillaries but no batteries and retail for about $400. It seems like a hedonistic *6* horsepower might be feasible and even desirable for a small car. 🙂
Wow, who wouldn’t want a “New Model Fully Enclosed Electric 4 Wheel Cabin Scooter for Old People”??
A claustrophobic young person?
Next check Alibaba prices on chainsaws.
How IS the Changli doing? I see it’s in your “not so running” list still.
I pulled the lead-acids from it in hopes of converting it to lithium. Which I still plan to, but I’m distracted with 2CV stuff for my project car at the moment!
The lithium conversion can be as easy or as difficult as you want it
At the easy end of the spectrum, a bunch of used 60V e-bike battery packs in parallel would do the job. A drop-in, plug and play fit, if you buy a suitable charger. It would be even easier to find 52V or 48V packs already made, if you don’t mind losing 2-3 mph off your top speed.
Somewhere in the middle is stringing up some 12V LiIon or 3.2V LiFePO4 in series to whatever voltage you want. The LiFePO4 can be done and work reliably without a BMS if you have an appropriate charger and bottom-balance the cells first. I’d recommend using the CALB CA series batteries with Nordlock washers and braided connectors for the terminals if you go the LiFePO4 route: easy to install and service, reliable, robust, powerful, and inexpensive.
At the more difficult end of the spectrum, you could order some nice Molicel P65A batteries and spotweld up a 72V pack with impressive energy density and wire the BMS up yourself, but I wouldn’t go this route without upgrading the motor and controller to take advantage of the horsepower available, and you might need to overhaul the mechanicals as well so that the torque doesn’t destroy things. But if you want your Changli to embarrass fast cars at stoplights from about 0-30 mph, this is the way,.
If the Changli is built like any other Chinese e-moped, then you don’t have to worry about BMS communications, Canbus RS485 etc. The inverter just cares about seeing 48 to 72 volts (well more like 40 to 90V depending on cell count, full charge and cut-off voltage) on the black and red wires. Its not going to care about stuff like chemistry or cell temp or cell voltage, so best have a good independent BMS.
Wiring in a range extender would be really easy too, engine and tank under the hood, then hook the DC wires to the battery. Some insane e-moped folks in China do this, strap a DC generator to the pillion seat and ride several thousand miles to Tibet.
I get that, but many ebike battery packs, including ones that I’ve personally built, do use a BMS to prevent thermal runaway while charging.
A functioning BMS is absolutely non-negotiable with LiIon, unless you want to start a fire.
With LiFePO4, you can go without a BMS as long as it’s a single string setup that has been initially bottom-balanced to where all cells are within 0.001V of each other and the interconnects have been properly installed with no variation in resistance to each other. This is actually the most reliable and longest-lasting way to power an EV battery pack, but you need high AH cells to get the capacity needed.
It is not without valid reason that EV hobbyists during the 2000s decade have often referred to the BMS as the battery-murdering-system, at least in the context of LiFePO4. BMS havre introduced unwanted loads and failure points to what would otherwise be a solid and reliable battery pack. But if you parallel LiFePO4, or use any other lithium chemistry, a BMS is a VERY necessary evil that you cannot do without if you want the pack to last. This trick of going without a BMS only works for a single series string that has been bottom balanced, coupled with a charger that has an accurate to within 0.001V reading and a multi-stage charging profile.
All inexpensive electric cars should be as simple as the Changli. That is how you make an EV that Bubba mechanic with a 6th grade education can repair with a basic Harbor Freight toolset while drunk. CANbus is a stupid and unnecessary complication for these machines, and shouldn’t be used. That is how EVs should actually be designed, if you want them to last forever. They can and should be LESS complicated than ICE cars from the 1950s. But manufacturers insist on over-complicating EVs and adding all of the useless bells and whistles that have nothing to do with making the car get from point A to point B all in the name of planned-obsolescence and padding in profit margins, and it’s totally wasting the energy and non-renewable resources that go into manufacturing the technology.
They make lead acid to lithium conversion kits for golf carts that would probably take care of the Changli. We did a conversion on a golf cart at work and it was quick and simple to complete, didn’t even require a chainsaw.
The cart has an increase in top speed due to the weight reduction.
changli……Changli……CHANGLI….CHANGLI
[ Bolo Yeung makes progressively more insane faces ]