To say that I’ve bent the rules this week would be an understatement, so we’re going to end the week with two good old-fashioned used car bargains. You get a lot of car for not much money with either of these, as long as you’re not overly concerned with style, or handling.
Yesterday we looked at two 80s coupes, and I guess I’m not surprised that the Scirocco won. Chrysler products are always a hard sell with this crowd, and that Daytona is going to need a sympathetic owner who’s really willing to put in the time to bring it back to its former glory. The Scirocco, on the other hand, is just a nice old car.
I’ll be honest: if I had stupid money, I’d probably own an example of both, along with several other mediocre 80s cars. It’s just how I’m wired. Keep your Lamborghinis and Rolls-Royces; give me a Daytona, and a Scirocco, and a Cimarron, and an EXP. But if I had to choose between these two, I’d take the Scirocco. It handles better, and it’s more reliable – once you learn to speak Bosch fuel injection.
I’ve long held that “grandpa cars” make the best cheap beaters. They’re usually well-maintained, mechanically simple, and comfortable. You’ll have to look elsewhere for a sporting experience, but you won’t be disappointed in your choice if you have to spend time stuck in traffic. I imagine this won’t be the case forever; cars like these aren’t being produced anymore, and even these two are getting a little long in the tooth. But as of right now, if you’ve only got two or three grand to spend on a car, you could do a lot worse than a squishy old-man sedan. Let’s check out a couple.
1997 Buick LeSabre Limited – $1,999
Engine/drivetrain: 3.8-liter OHV V6, four-speed automatic, FWD
Location: Zion, IL
Odometer reading: 131,000 miles
Operational status: Runs and drives well
If you ask a bunch of people “What’s a reliable car?”, you’ll get the same few answers from most people: Toyota Camry, Honda Accord, and so forth. But those in the know can offer a whole variety of other choices, usually with a common drivetrain that’s known to be reliable, for example, the Buick 3800 V6 and 4T60-E automatic transmission. It doesn’t matter which of the many cars equipped with this combination you choose; the mechanical core is what’s important.
In this case, that mechanical core lives inside GM’s H-body sedan, a full-sized front-wheel-drive platform that replaced the old rear-drive B-body. This is a second-generation H-body, new enough to use the 3800 Series II engine, which received a nice power bump and some refinements. This one is for sale from a dealership, and they never seem to provide info on how well a car runs, but I’m going to assume no news is good news.
It’s the fancy Limited model, with leather seats and power everything. These are really comfy cars, very smooth and quiet inside. It looks like it’s in good shape, except for the typical worn-off paint on the steering wheel. These cars would have aged a lot better if Buick had just left the steering wheels black, no matter the interior color, like Mercedes did in the 70s and 80s.
The LeSabre was available in some good colors: a nice maroon, dark green, and a really good sky blue, but I think over the years they have all transformed into this taupe color, because that’s all I ever see anymore. This one is in decent shape, but I think I see a little bit of rust in the rockers. Not surprising for a 28-year-old car in the Chicago area, but it’s worth a look to make sure it’s not worse underneath. These have a front subframe that tends to trap water and rust out; hopefully this one is still good and solid.
2004 Mercury Grand Marquis GS – $2,500
Engine/drivetrain: 4.6-liter OHC V8, four-speed automatic, RWD
Location: Aurora, IL
Odometer reading: 180,000 miles
Operational status: Runs and drives well
While GM switched most of its full-size lineup over to unibody construction and front-wheel-drive, Ford hung on to the rear-wheel-drive Panther platform for a long time. The Panther is an old-school body-on-frame design, very strong and durable, but heavy and space-inefficient. That strength and durability is what made this chassis such a successful police car. The Mercury Grand Marquis is tuned for comfort rather than pursuit, but the bones are the same.
Power for this car, like all Panther-chassis cars of this era, comes from Ford’s 4.6 liter overhead cam Modular V8, driving a traditional solid rear axle through a four-speed automatic transmission. This one runs and drives well, and just passed an emissions test, which is a good sign. The ad is a little light on details otherwise.
The Grand Marquis is much like the LeSabre inside: big and soft and comfortable. This is the low-level GS model, but it still has all the power toys, as well as leather seats. It’s in pretty good shape inside, but the seller admits the air conditioning is out – and of course they just say it “needs a charge.” I guess you could try charging it and see what happens; it’s worth a shot, right?
This one has some pretty serious rust along the rocker panels, but since it’s body-on-frame, the rockers aren’t structural, at least. It’ll probably be all right for a while yet. Cars this cheap, you don’t expect to keep forever anyway.
So that’s all I’ve got for you this week: a couple of old sofas-on-wheels that have seen better days, but still have a few miles left in them. You’ve got all weekend to decide between them. Thanks for reading, and I’ll be back here on Monday with more poor choices.
I just can’t with those Buicks and their week-old bar of soap styling.
I’ll take the rusty Panther GS. I guess.
“The Panther is an old-school body-on-frame design, very strong and durable, but heavy and space-inefficient. That strength and durability is what made this chassis such a successful police car.”
When Ford reacquired its stranglehold on police contracts among the law enforcement departments around here in the late 90s and early 00s some people were mad because they preferred the Chevy Caprices they had been using even if they were perhaps not quite as powerful because they had found the Chevys to be more reliable, more capacious, and more fuel-efficient.
Yeah, while the Chevys weren’t stellar in terms of fuel efficiency the Fords were far worse which really bit the police departments in the ass when the recession hit in 2007-’09 because many police departments ended up having to sideline their cruisers due to not having the money for gas (& repairs!) Most of the PDs that were able to keep their cruisers running were the ones that had stayed with the Chevys instead of switching to the Fords because those Chevys were just more fuel-efficient (& required fewer repairs.)
As a casal observer (so take that for what it’s worth) in those days I noted that local law enforcement agencies that used Chevys seemed to keep their cruisers running for considerably longer than the ones that used Fords did; those agencies seemed to sell off their Fords more quickly to the public. So there are a lot of those ex-police Fords running around which might partly account for the public’s perception of those Fords as being, uh, reliable and being good police cars despite reality seeming to dictate otherwise…
Why both from IL again!?
Gut says Buick even though from experience the rust is major concern. My dad’s 01 Alero looked good on the outside but the floor crumpled when trying to jack it up and it was ultimately done in when the steering rack unattached itself from what was left of the front suspension member.
Drivetrain was running great at 200k though.
Rust is the enemy here.
I’ll chance the rocker rust on a body-on-frame car versus a car with a subframe known for rusting out. Working air conditioning is cold comfort in a car that may never leave the driveway.
Both have their red flags: the aftermarket stereo in the Buick, the aftermarket wheels on the Merc. Grandpa hasn’t driven these cars for a while, his grandson has.
The Panther’s just more resistant to abuse.
My grandparents had a late 90’s LeSabre in the same color, but with a beige velour interior. I suspect this is where my love affair with velour started. Honestly though, having spent quite a few hours in that back seat, I think that might also be where my awareness of car sickness also comes from. My grandparents put a bazillion miles on it and after they passed, my mom sold it off to be used in demolition derby. I’d probably go with one of those, just based on familiarity.
I went with the Mercury even without the AC working. The worst case scenario is $300 on Rockauto, and you could probably do cheaper than that if you threw the dice at a pick ‘n’ pull.
The Panther platform is worth it for the V8, the RWD, and the extremely easily defeated traction control.
I drove a slightly newer LeSabre than this during college when my grandfather could no longer drive it. It’s still in the top 5 cars I’ve ever owned.
My vote goes to the Buick.
A ’98 LeSabre got me through college and my now-father-in-law had a Grand Marquis. The LeSabre is more comfortable. The seats are softer and the suspension handles bumps better. It also gets a lot better gas mileage. I love a Grand Marquis, but LeSabre is the clear winner between the two.
Plus 130k miles is *nothing* on that motor. Just swap to a metal intake and youre good
Buick. At this point the car has already had the EGR stove stove pipe, brittle coolant elbow, and Dexcool-eroding intake gaskets replaced, so it should be set to run forever. It also looks like it was taken care of instead of modded and beat like the Mercury.
Voted LeSabre. My mom had one of those, exact same color, exact same interior. It was OK. Faster than I expected it to be, but it handled like a greased up pig.
We’re voting on comfort here, and only comfort. With no AC (jUsT nEeDs ReChArGe) I’m going with Buick.
“Just needs a charge” is always funny to me. That’s a closed system. If it needs more refrigerant that means there’s a leak. And if it’s that easy, why not do it real quick before sale? We all know why.
Buick for me.
It’d be worth the $10 in entertainment value to bring a can of R134a to the test drive just to watch it piss right out from wherever it’s broken.
Yep. That goes for pretty much any repair noted in a car ad. “Just” needs …….
Mmmmkay. Then why not “just” do it?
Gotta be the Grand Marquis. Those are some of the most tossable large cars ever made.
Something about the Mercury just looks grungy. Why not detail it and charge the A/C before you list it for sale? Buick for me.
The aftermarket wheels seem a red flag. And rust. Buick for me.
The Buick is in better condition, so that’s how I voted
My first inclination was to vote for the Grand Marquis, but I don’t like the AC situation. I don’t mind that the AC is broken, but I am skeptical of sellers that downplay the flaws of their vehicles. It makes me wonder what else they are trying to hide. Plus, as I have said before, if it is a cheap/simple fix, why not do it before selling the car? Working AC is obviously something buyers are going to want just about anywhere outside of Alaska.
With that said, the dealer selling the Lesabre has a 2.8 rating on google, so I’m skeptical of that car no matter what the ad says.
I ended up voting for the Grand Marquis, mostly because I like that car better. To me, the Lesabre is an transportation appliance, whereas the Mercury is something I would actually want to own.
The LeSabre is cheaper and appears to be way less rusty, makes it an easy choice here. But a cheap Panther is also fun, if it’s not rusty… I’m from Indiana and live back here now but spent some years in AZ so I can’t stand rust anymore…
Man, the Buy Here Stealership connection on that Lesabre makes me want to go panther, even if I am in the midwest and the rear wheel drive kind of limits the amount I would use that thing. But there is so many weird things about the Merc. Like why does it have a current temp tag? Was it a flip? How clean is it where you cannot see. the miles are much higher, the price is too, it does have some weird sport rims, but they are not the worst I suppose, but the slime shine engine detail also has me wanting to really want to dig into it more before I would go that route.
I will say, this is a pretty good comparison test though.
The temp tag is weird, particularly combined with the new-looking license plate frame from a used car dealer. The dealer seems to have a good reputation, but I wonder if they are trying to present it as a private sale because it isn’t good enough to sell on their lot (I’m fairly certain that isn’t legal)? Or maybe someone bought it from that dealership, found out it is a POS, and wants to sell it? It is hard to imagine anyone bought a car from a dealership to flip, but I guess that is possible.
For what it is worth, I also found an identical deleted listing for this car on Facebook marketplace in upstate New York. This vehicle is super sketchy. Scam?
That’s the car that, among the Panther nerds, is the best year. Not the best model within the best year, but it has the newer front end, the better intake manifold, and the throttle cable (rather than by wire) gas pedal.
This one is my favorite generation of LeSabre. The turbine-style wheels are the bomb, and it has the same Series II as the next gen.
The Panther is just a bit too beat. If it was mint, it would swing the decision.
I’ve had three (3) Panthers and I’d be happy to hold four-of-a-kind.
At 180K, you may have to keep yer wrenches handy, but they’re OK to work on.
Except fer changing out the Blend Door Actuator: for that you’ll wish you were never born.
3800 for the win.
The cost is low enough that if you went about replacing the steering wheel and re-covering the front seats you’d still have a great bargain.
What a nice surprise! At least so far, the Buick is out front 2:1. I thought the rwd panther would get all the love around here, but I had to go with the LeSabre. My first car was a 1977 Buick Century Special and I remember my old man singing the praises of its legendary 231 cubic inch V6, so I’ll stick with the 231, I mean 3.8 L, this time.
Panther is the anther.
It was a slightly difficult choice, but the Merc is generally nicer all around. V8, RWD, and it appears to have been cared for a little better than the Buick. Also, I find Ford’s interiors of that period to be better than GM’s.
If I was in the market for a Land Yacht, that’d be my choice.
Just needs a charge, that’s me most mornings.
Took the Buick.