I have some pretty mixed feelings about modern proximity keys/key fobs/smart keys/whatever. Complex feelings. On the one hand, they’re fantastic; they allow you to just approach your car and it recognizes the key somewhere in your pocket or handbag or underpants, and the door opens, you can get the car started and go without having to dig out at key or anything. For many people, for safety and convenience reasons, this is incredibly important.
On the other hand or flipper, these keys also allow all manner of sort-of-absurd problems and disasters to happen, because the fob doesn’t require a physical connection to the car. This means one can do exciting things like leaving the key on the outside of a car, where it can fall off, which is exactly what our own Mercedes Streeter did this summer, leading to days and days of expensive trouble.
There’s other, easy ways to screw up with proximity keys, of course; switching drivers but not keys, which can allow you to keep driving before the car realizes the key is gone, compounding the trouble, and of course there’s simply losing keys, which of course you can do with any sort of key (or really, any objects, like socks or grapefruit).
But proximity keys and fobs don’t have to be subject to the limitations of crude old metal keys! Our own Pete asked the question that got me thinking, and should get us all thinking:
This is an extremely reasonable question: can you track a lost key fob? And, in keeping with ancient rabbinical traditions of answering questions with questions, the only reasonable response to this is this question: why the hell not?
Doing a little bit of research, it doesn’t seem like any major OEMs are making key fobs that can be tracked like AirTags or similar sorts of Bluetooth-based tracking devices. I mean, there may be some out there that do that, and of course Teslas and some other cars use phones in place of keys, but the fundamental truth is that all modern key fobs should have the electronics built into them so they can be tracked if lost.
I mean, these key fobs are already halfway there; they have wireless radios and some manner of power source and little antennae; really, how much harder would it be to include BlueTooth hardware to make these things trackable via a phone app?
The more I think about this, the more obvious it seems to be. As soon as cheap BlueTooth trackers like AirTags hit the market, you’d think carmakers would be itching to incorporate such tech into their smart keys, right?
I mean, sure, you can get keychains that hold these tracking tags, and many people use those, but, again, this seems like something that should be built into all modern key fobs. Just because.
I suppose there are some security concerns, like there are with any tracker; there would need to be means for the owner to turn off tracking if desired, say if they were loaning their car to a friend, or something like that. But beyond that, it’s your car key; is there any reason to not know where it is at all times?
Are there downsides here? I mean, sure, there’s likely a bit more cost involved, but compared to what modern cars already have built into them, it’s pretty trivial. If we have the technology to allow you to find a misplaced car keys, then that feels like something that you shouldn’t even have to ask for; it should just be part of modern key fobs from the get-go.
So there.
One problem is the battery life or need of a separate battery. The fob would need to squawk now and then to communicate and maybe flash a LED or a buzzer like a smoke alarm when commanded by your phone…
IIRC, all it would need is some software. Nearly every chip in every consumer device has more capacity than it uses – so use some for bluetooth location software. Anyone know why that wouldn’t work?
100%!!
I had a housemate drop me off at the airport with the #2 keyfob. And when I returned, she had lost it. A complicated and expensive Uber return later (because I was waiting for it at the usual Uber pick up place, but she instructed them to pick me up outside of the luggage pickup and he bailed after not finding me after waiting for an appropriate amount of time. And then I had to rebook.). The fob is probably somewhere here, but she is now in rehab somewhere, and an airtag or something similar could save me getting an expensive re-key to make sure I have a second way to make my car work. I have an airtag in my car, my scooter and my bag of camera gear.
I actually sold fobs as a minor part of my job working for a tier one. It was years ago though, and AirTags / similar products weren’t on the market at that point.
I don’t have a great answer, as it seems like a no-brainer in terms of a feature. Cost would be a factor, it wouldn’t be +$20 like a retail AirTag – but that sort of tech is jammed into all sorts of shapes and sizes at this point (though more so in the last few years). That’s to say cost would be an issue, and it would need to be tied to an OEM app or something – likely not android or google.
Key fobs are an insane product. Finicky in terms of making sure they work right with all the various signals and security, and they’re class a surfaces so they have to pass all sorts of requirements as a result. Finally, the “style” guys at the OEM get involved and make everything crazy by ensuring their products evoke all kinds of bonkers shit – before it becomes a push-pull between style/engineering/cost.
You can have third party trackers now that work with android and apple tracking apps, so they would work best using that so it can tap into the network of devices linked to it. I’d argue that if you lost your VW key (for example )and having to wait until a VW owner with the app drove past would be super frustrating and much lower density than any of the major smartphone OS systems
mercedes will put an air tag on her F350 key.
I also wish modern key fobs weren’t so large!! They take up so much space in my pocket, especially since I have to have two!
This absolutely should be A Thing. Also, my glasses ought a have an RFID chip in them, so I can track them with my phone. And, AND, all TVs should have a button on the top that you can press to make a beeper go off in the remote. Why the hell that isn’t standard, I do not know.
That last part about the TV remote?
MichaelScottThankYou.gif
For the prices charged to replace these things this should definitely be in included feature!
I’d rather drop fobs entirely and go to well-designed phone apps. Now I realize this is a sticky topic, and in my own experience, quality automotive apps are EXTREMELY hit or miss. However, in the case of my Ford, the app works great, I was able to easily set up my phone as a key, and it works perfectly 99.5% of the time.
For the two occasions in nearly 4 years of daily driving that the phone as a key didn’t work for whatever reason, I used the exterior keypad (that often overlooked, but super handy Ford feature) to get into the car, and then typed my other password on the center display to actually start and drive. No more difficult than website 2-factor authentication.
Based on the number of “Blah with hidden slot for Airtag” accessories I see around now, the answer here is just to leave a space for an Airtag and if people want to have that they can insert one themselves.
I like this idea of course, and I suppose we could just add a AirTag knock-off thingy, but if it were integrated into the fob, it’d mean replacing the battery yearly more or less, as opposed to the many years that a fob battery seems to last in the one car I have a fob for (the others just have old-style mechanical keys, which I actually prefer).
Simple solution for this, slot the key into the dashboard for charging a rechargeable battery
Security, but also if manufacturers did do this they would tie it to some monthly subscription.
This.
Cost+Battery life+cybersecurity
one or a combo of these are the likely reasons.
But then they lose out on the $600 fob replacement fees.
I got one that I’ve always wondered. Remember in the early days of fobs when some cars had you insert them into the dash? And now we have wireless charging being common, why can’t I have a slot or pad that I can put my key fob to recharge the battery?
The only reason I can think of is the whole point of the modern fob is that I never ever have to take it out of my pocket.
True, but how often would you need to charge the battery? You’d start your car and the dashboard would say “fob battery low, please place on charger” probably once a year or so
How often do you change your fob battery now? Every few years? Seems like a home station next to my wireless phone, watch and airpod charger would be a better option, since I’m taking the fob out of my pocket then anyway.
Most new cars already come with wireless charging pads, it’s just a simple addition of making the fobs capable of working on wireless charging pads. Where you want to do it is up to you!
That’s a good thought, as one thing I don’t like about proximity keys is how much quicker they drain their batteries. I’ve only had a car with these fancy things for a year and a half, and I’ve had to replace batteries multiple times.
You never have to take it out of your pocket. Think about that for a second. You get so used to it being in there you forget it’s in there. Then it goes through the wash. Wet electronic key fobs don’t work well. Back to that $600 replacement cost.
idk when you updated the default avatar to random Atari sprites but I want to say I love it.
Kinda reminds me of the Redmine avatars lol
Too bad there wasn’t some obvious solution to this problem. https://www.otterbox.com/en-us/airtags
Why even a fob and not your phone as your key? Tesla got that improvement right.
No thanks. As an OPTION, sure. But a phone is already a huge target for thieves since you have touchless pay, bank accounts, all your important information. Basically your life and now also control of your car. Rather keep at least a few things not connected.
I hate the compounding of all things in to the phone. If I don’t carry cash (most don’t any more), and I follow modern culture, my phone is my keys and my wallet, AND my only form of communication. Most people don’t memorize more than 1-2 phone numbers at best any more.
So if it gets stolen, or dropped in a puddle, or even dropped hard enough to completely ruin the screen, I now have no money, no keys, and no comms.
I’m happy to have them individual. Oh no, I have to carry something in my pocket.
You’re right. There was a time when I had 20 or 30 numbers memorized. Not anymore I lose my phone, I’m in trouble.
I know two phone numbers, my personal number, and my childhood best friend’s home phone number, which probably doesn’t even work anymore. (We’ve grown apart over the last decade, life happens)
I don’t know my kid’s numbers, or my SO’s number; Didn’t know the wife’s number when I was married either.
We have a Hyundai that has both a key fob and a digital key app. Here is why the digital key is horrible/awesome:
Horrible: the digital key uses NFC, which means you have to be within about 10 or 15 feet of the car. A key fob has a useful range of 50+ feet. It may not sound like a huge deal, but having to get that close to the car is often annoying.
Horrible: to use the Hyundai digital key I have to remove the phone from my pocket (1 to 3 seconds); unlock the phone (2 to 3 seconds); find and open the app (2 to 5 seconds); wait for the NFC to communicate with the car (4 to 8 seconds); and then tap the unlock button (1 to 2 seconds). Key fob, I just fumble in my pocket and muscle memory takes over with the physical buttons, and my car is unlocked in 1 to 3 seconds.
Horrible: I’d say the key works a little over 99% of the time, which is still a pretty shitty batting average for a key to a device that gets used more than 100 times per year. Keys should work all the time, and not leave me stranded at my office because the app randomly reset and no longer paired to the car, requiring my son to drive a physical key over at 6pm after a long work day.
Awesome: I can’t count the number of times now I’ve had to randomly move the car and used the app when I didn’t have the key on me. You wouldn’t think it happens often, but it does.
Awesome: never having to worry about accidentally locking my keys in the car.
Awesome: and semi-related to the last one, if I ever lose my key fob, I still have a way home so long as I have my phone on me.
Anyway, digital keys are a cool but flawed technology. I’m happy that Hyundai offers both the fob and DK.
Not only annoying but sometimes necessary: if you cannot remember (cuz a rental, for example) what your car is or where you parked, 50 feet is pretty good for getting a trace on it. Wife’s car is small enough that finding it behind a behemoth is easier with the horn beep.
That first Horrible doesn’t sound like it would bother me. I don’t use my fob from that far away. Maybe if I forgot where I parked and want to make my car beep and flash?
But that second Horrible. I never want to take anything out of my pocket to get into or start my car or lock it ever again in my life. I will never buy a car that requires that of me ever again. I dunno what that says about me and I don’t care, it’s how I feel.
The Hyundai digital key implementation is horrible, I gave up on it and keep the fob in my pocket. Ford’s works great (similar to Tesla) where I don’t even think about keys anymore just hop in the car and go.
Nice thing about using the phone is that you can’t lock the keys in the car, which my Dad did two days ago with his “old school” vehicle.
When our dealer said that our key fob costs $800 to replace it, my spouse put an airtag on it right away. It is a great idea, but in a world of privacy concerns, it would need to be a choice.
Talk about article timing – I quite literally lost my keys last weekend, but thankfully just ONE WEEK PRIOR had put one of those apple tags on them. We were at one of those pumpkin farm festivals, had been there fore hours with a cranky 4 year old, and had just trudged ALL THE WAY to the parking lot… to discover my keys were gone. But! Used my fancy shmancy phone to track the air tag across several acres, right to the lost and found!! Turns out they fell out of my pocket at a tractor ride (with little cars made out of 55 gallon drums, which is where the keys made a break for it as I tried to squeeze my fat behind out of that thing).
So yes, build a tracker into the dang fob from the start!
Sure – but look at the manufacturer’s viewpoint.
Can they charge $10 more for that feature? Sure.
Can they charge an annual subscription for that? Maybe.
Would that eliminate them being able to charge $400+ for a lost key? Definitely.
Would that feature actually help you find it under the sofa or in an open field? No.
Old tech solution: buy a car that has a spare key bolted to the passenger side of the engine bay, like my 1974 MGB.
https://www.mgexp.com/forum/mgb-and-gt-forum.1/original-key-placement-under-bonnet.3607256/
also, a “all windows up” button-combo on the fob for when it starts to rain, and you’re inside.
Because a modern car key isn’t expensive enough? We’re going to give them another reason to charge more?
I’m going to take this moment to piss and moan about how much they are. P3 Volvo key, dealer told me it would be around $400 for key plus programming and I have to leave the car there for a day. WTF? Same deal with a SPA Volvo.
They say “oh, you can find a locksmith to do it”, but they don’t actually exist. In order to make a key for a Volvo, either you need to subscribe to their VIDA system which is obscenely expensive, no locksmith could ever make money while paying that bill (especially if they have to pay for other similar subscriptions from other manufacturers). The other alternative is to use 3rd party software like Orbit or Vdash, but Volvo locks the ability to modify car configs behind a vehicle-specific central electronics module (CEM) PIN code. There are some ways to crack the CEM PIN, but what works for one, doesn’t always work for another, so now you have multiple pieces of hardware and software needed to just make a key. Result: no locksmith even bothers because why would they?
As a note, the dealer can look up your CEM PIN, but they won’t give it to you. Yes, you have paid the car in full, but you won’t know what that secret code is to your own car. Some dealer employees will sell you the PIN for about $200 if you nose around on forums.
Modern keys are fucking bullshit moneymakers. If someone wants to break in, they can smash out a window. If they want to steal it, they can just do what the repo man does and tow it off. The price of the key does not add more security, it just makes more money and pisses off the customer.
If there were $20 worth of electronics in a modern key fob, I would be surprised. The cost has little to do with the hardware and almost everything to do with corporate greed.
Yep and the P3 you have to replace all the keys at once I lost one and almost went and spent 1k on new ones until I found it 5 months later caught in the seat mechanism of my 850R
I am pretty sure there is a subscription for this feature.