Yesterday, I wrote about how none of my friends listen to me when I tell them there are vehicles they can buy that are not the Toyota Grand Highlander. Many of you had thoughts on this post and left hundreds of comments. One person who saw these comments was my friend, the physics professor who just purchased a Grand Highlander. Not only does he have thoughts, but he’s also tested at least one of your theories and proved it wrong.
Did I mention that he’s a professor of physics at a prestigious university? Also, did I point out that his wife is a psychology professor at a different, equally prestigious academic organization? I can promise you that the two of them approach every major decision with both a scientist’s eye for quantitative facts and a psychologist’s ability to suss out the deeper meaning behind human choices. The best way I can describe them is that they once invited us over to their house for a lovely homemade pizza dinner and a board game about winemaking that takes roughly three hours to play.
I probably should have mentioned to them that I was writing this article, but I know they read it because I got a text message from the physics professor this morning stating that “I see I made the press!” to which I replied, “Names were changed to protect the guilty.”
Specifically, he wanted to talk about a comment in this thread wherein regular V10omous pointed out that people are maybe too quick to assume minivans are always the answer. Other commenters accepted this notion, but then this exchange happened:
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You are going to be shocked to learn this, but the household with two college professor parents has a kid who plays the cello. And if that surprises you, you’ll be even more flummoxed when you learn that the physics prof tested this theory and sent me a photo:
Photo: My Friend
He proudly pointed out that he could fit two cellos and, honestly, it looks like I could put two more in there if I didn’t care about the cellos ever being used again.
I laughed so hard when I got this response from my friend, both because it’s exactly the kind of thing he would do and because the Grand Highlander has way more string instrument capacity than I realized. I knew I’d write a follow-up piece and asked if my friend had more to add.
He did. Below is the email I got from him this morning:
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It’s great to hear everyone’s comments about the new purchase. Here are some of my thoughts on what led us towards the Grand Highlander.
#1) We wanted a fuel-efficient car, preferably a hybrid. This is our primary long-distance road trip vehicle. I really enjoy driving fully electric vehicles, but charging adds significant time and mental stress to a road trip. Plus, in the NYC region, electricity is expensive (> $0.30 a kWh in home, fast charging station significantly more). At this rate, a fuel-efficient vehicle like the Grand Highlander Hybrid (35 MPG) has a comparable, if not cheaper, energy cost-per-mile than a Kia KV9. Aside: We didn’t consider the significantly less fuel-efficient Max version.
#2) I’m biased towards Toyota’s hybrid e-CVT engine/transmission. It’s been around for decades, and I feel very confident in its reliability. My mother had a Prius for nearly 20 years and never had a problem with the engine/transmission.
#2) We have three kids, including two teenagers, plus we often transport grandparents and friends. The third-row legroom was a real issue for us. Many 3-row crossovers have very little leg room in the back (Toyota Highlander, Mazda CX90, Volvo XC90, Hyundai Santa Fe, etc..). Comparable vehicles with enough legroom, like Pilot or Telluride, didn’t have a hybrid option. Note: We never considered a truck frame SUV like a Dodge Durango, Toyota Sequoia, Chevy Suburban. The added weight, cost, and poorer fuel efficiency removed them from our consideration.
#3) In general, I agree with commenters that the minivan does everything we need and is potentially a more practical vehicle. For us, it was just a feel thing. I like to be happy driving a vehicle. I prefer the driver position, relative to the vehicle dimensions, and more relaxed seating in a crossover/SUV. I also prefer the higher vehicle clearance and having a spare tire, something not found in some minivans. Minivans are utilitarian, with gizmos like TVs and removable seats on rails, but it’s just not my thing.
Source: My Friend
Source: My Friend
#4) Some caveats. I don’t like the size and shape of the Grand Highlander front end. Granted, it is a very large vehicle, but it appears as though they tried to emphasize its size. There is a fair amount of space under the hood – like more than 6 inches above the engine. Maybe they could have made it slope down more, akin to a Volvo XC90. Perhaps the extra space is for the Max version of the engine, though I suspect they were trying to appeal to the desires of the North American market. Also, to be pedantic, but I’m not fan of the name “Grand Highlander.” Toyota makes a lot of vehicles, and maybe they didn’t have enough time to come up with another name. It feels uninspired, like the creation of the Grand Cherokee from the Cherokee. I wish they just numbered their vehicles like some of the competition: for example: Audi, BMW, and Mazda. However, maybe a lesson can be taken from Jeep’s example. I wouldn’t be surprised if the Grand Highlander soon outsells the Highlander.
One of my other questions for him was if he got an actual color, and his response was great:
We initially wanted white, but white makes a car look bigger (my psychologist wife keyed me in on this). That’s why we turned to blue.
I will say, selfishly, I’m also excited about this move because it means that my daughter will be able to go along with them for various adventures and save me a trip in our car. The excuse of “We only have the wagon” will no longer fly!
My friend also gave me a subtle hint as to why the Grand Highlander was a great purchase. He’d just spent a few weeks in South Africa and drove across that country in this thing, stuffed with seven people and luggage:
Photo: My Friend
That is a Toyota Rumion, which is actually a Suzuki Ertiga. It’s a small MPV. While I think this little van is awesome, I’m sure a couple of weeks in it would also make me reach for the biggest Toyota I could find the day I got home, which basically is what happened.
As a professional cello roadie (read: I married a professional cellist), I can confirm cello capacity is a completely valid litmus test with which to judge a vehicle. For example, seat up, our Outback can hold 1 cello plus associated gear. And yes, we brought a cello case to the test drive.
That said, please say a small prayer for anyone whose child wants to play bass (the non-guitar type) or harp, as their car options are extremely limited, especially if they also want a family.
I had a harpist friend who drove a Focus ST. With the back seats folded down and the passenger seat pushed all the way forward, the harp fit, but she couldn’t shift into 6th because the harp was in the way.
Or if your kid is a drummer, then your options are really limited. Also the band always rehearses at the drummer’s apartment.
Someone in the neighborhood has a fiberglass upright bass case that attaches to the roof of his car like one of those Thule cargo boxes / roof coffins
I thought harpists were like pianists and their instruments simply manifested themselves at the performance venue. Now that I think of it, I’ve seen Zeena Parkins with a harp shipping crate that was pretty gigantic.
Pretty much. When I was younger, old hearses were the thing.
When my son first got interested in having a band, he told me one evening that he was interested in either being the drummer or the bass player, and I said, “I think Sam Ash is open till 9 pm and I am sure they have a left-handed bass.” and called a cab.
Dan G.
1 day ago
South Africa is listed as the country with the fifth highest crime rate worldwide. Your friend spent two weeks driving around South Africa? That is one bad ass professor.
GirchyGirchy
1 day ago
Viticulture plays quicker the more times you do it!
SAABstory
1 day ago
For us, it was just a feel thing
That’s what I expect most buyers do, even after comparisons, etc.
Haranguatank
1 day ago
There is a fair amount of space under the hood – like more than 6 inches above the engine. Maybe they could have made it slope down more, akin to a Volvo XC90. Perhaps the extra space is for the Max version of the engine, though I suspect they were trying to appeal to the desires of the North American market.
Maybe you guys should do a deep dive on the way pedestrian impact crash requirements are fueling the front end bloat on modern cars.
It’s not really a big mystery. Pedestrian crash safety mandates that there needs to be some space between the hood and the engine. If you mow someone down the rounded shape of the hood keeps them from taking a 2nd hard hit as they bang off the top of the engine. The rounded top of the hood is meant to provide some cushion (as soft as a steel hood can be) vs just having someone bang their melon off the engine.
Apparently it’s a big mystery to the Author’s professor friend which is why I quoted him. There’s an awful lot that goes into the development of the front end of a modern car and I think most people underestimate that and just assume the designers have poor taste (granted sometimes they do, but that’s beside the point).
Except the high hoods on American vehicles, “trucks” mostly, are so high that no pedestrian is going to be bouncing off of the hood and windshield. The soft bouncy hood only works if the hood is about waist high. If the hood is chest high, then how much it yields is irrelevant.
The higher the hood, the likeliest you are going to kill whoever you hit with the car.
I guess America dont care about killing pedestrians. At least dont care enough that feeling rugged and manly and powerful is more important.
Add some bars at the front to play act like you are going on a safari so you can instead kill pedestrian more efficiently.
Pit-Smoked Clutch
2 days ago
One point of contention for your friend: the Dodge Durango is NOT a truck frame-based SUV. It’s a somewhat rare longitudinal drivetrain, transfer case 4×4, unibody SUV, with bones traceable all the way back to the early ’10s Mercedes M-class.
It’ll also suck down double the fuel of a hybrid Highlander, but then the Toyota probably sucks down twice the monthly payment. The third row isn’t a place to put adults for long, either.
It’ll also suck down double the fuel of a hybrid Highlander, but then the Toyota probably sucks down twice the monthly payment.
This is what people don’t understand. The $4000 premium for the grand highlander hybrid takes over 7 years to recoup than if they’d just bought the gasser. That’s just a quick MSRP Versus Fuel Cost savings. That doesn’t include driving less or the more interest paid on a potentially larger loan. That’s a terrible value proposition.
I never understand that everyone likes to point this out, there are other considerations like:
Being more green
Using less gas “feels better”
Hyrbrids feel a bit punchier, and the eCVT is more reliable than the automatic they use (or at least used to).
Agree the value may not be there, but there are intangibles. Also for me I was giving up a 6speed manual Veloster for my now husband, so I wanted a hybrid with lots of tech (Niro) to replace my car!
Hybrids feel a bit punchier, and the eCVT is more reliable than the automatic they use (or at least used to).
Plus not having any shifting at all with the planetary gear eCVT is really nice around town compared to the 8-speed automatic that never knows what gear it wants to be in. It’ll take me a long time to overcome the extra money I spent on my Maverick hybrid but imo it’s a nicer driving experience than the gas Maverick.
I never understand that everyone likes to point this out, there are other considerations like:
Being more greenUsing less gas “feels better”Hyrbrids feel a bit punchier, and the eCVT is more reliable than the automatic they use (or at least used to).
Agree the value may not be there, but there are intangibles. Also for me I was giving up a 6speed manual Veloster for my now husband, so I wanted a hybrid with lots of tech (Niro) to replace my car!
You don’t understand why the largest expense outside of a house should be analyzed and judged for the value it provides?
If people start buying vehicles that use more gas, that will drive demand and prices up. If some random apocalyptic thing happens, prices may go way up, but we will all be bartering potatoes and teenage children for fuel, or demand will plummet because there is nowhere to go.
And if people use less gas, manufacturers will reduce refinery capacity due to lower demand, which will make prices go up. If a hurricane damages a refinery, prices go up. A hurricane misses a refinery, prices go up.
Calculating vehicle tco based on current gas prices is like cashing out your retirement fund because you just won big at the slots and you just know you’re on a hot streak now!
Well, only if everybody stays home, but official policy right now is to do everything possible to raise gas prices.
Dan Bee
2 days ago
Two misses:
Should have a PHEV option. Grand Highlander Prime. Love the punchiness of the electric motor of a PHEV which the regular hybrid lacks.
Should lower the hood/beltline to improve outward visibility.
Otherwise, a winner.
Source: current owner of 2021 Highlander Hybrid.
Scoutdude
2 days ago
It is hard to argue against the beauty of a planetary e-CVT, a simple but elegant solution to the CVT problem and Hybrid operation. Plus the basic design has decades of proven durability, thanks in part to the simplicity.
Speaking of the psychology of car purchasing, two stories.
When I met my now wife she drove a Tercel Sedan and she specifically said she didn’t want the hatchback version. “A hatchback is too much like a station wagon and station wagons are mommy mobiles”. Fast forward and she becomes a mommy. Once the second one came around it became pretty obvious that we needed something more than a 4dr sedan. By this time station wagons were well on their way out, minivans were the new mommy mobile and SUVs were just starting to really take off. She resisted but being thrifty like me she did agree that minivans were the value proposition, that is what we bought.
Fast forward a couple of years and she had to travel to her Grand Mother’s funeral in January, in North Dakota. I insisted she rent a 4wd and she soon found herself behind the wheel of a Ford Explorer. Well by the end of summer we had a SUV. I smartly declined to mention that a truck version of a station wagon.
Story 2, I was talking with one of the students I coach and somehow it came up that her mother drove a Ford Flex. Since they are a cool niche vehicle I had to ask why her mother chose that. She said that her mother needed a minivan but wouldn’t be caught dead driving a minivan.
Moral of those stories is of course that people do have an aversion to some types of vehicles and simply won’t consider them, and some of those aren’t afraid to to admit it.
My mom spent years saying she hated minivans and would never buy one. And then we rented a Windstar for a vacation and she didn’t drive anything else until she stopped driving.
Some people who would genuinely love a type of vehicle can be convinced if they can just get in one, but if they never get in one, they will never know.
I agree and for my wife a few days behind the wheel of a SUV changed her from “it looks too much like a station wagon” and “I like something small, agile and fun to drive” to I want one of those. When gas prices spiked we did end up relegating that SUV to ocassional use and she did go back to sedans for her daily driver, but now is now driving a CUV.
That may be so, but in my experience most people won’t admit to why they really won’t drive a minivan. They dont want to just come out and I think im too “cool” for a minivan. And if that is the case, then most likely, they really aren’t. And to go further won’t be “cool” in any vehicle, regardless of its type.
That’s the truth of the matter for most people. I tried to tell my brother in law that since they had two little kids and were car shopping, they should at least try a van. Nope, would NOT have it, wouldn’t even consider it. They got a rental-spec Highlander instead. I remember the first time they drove out to us with it. It was packed to the ceiling with crap. They brought the two kids, plus the grandparents and a dog. They had a roof bag on, there was stuff in all the footwells, under the seats, the entire tiny cargo area was full so the rear window was totally blocked.
I REALLY had to work on not saying something like “well this was a dumb fucking choice, I told you to get a minivan” but my wife kept elbowing and pinching me.
Not sure what is cool about the cheapest fwd SUV you can afford. He’s an art teacher, she’s a early education teacher. Neither would qualify as cool and that gray cloth-seated Toyota sure doesn’t either. Maybe it’s the perfect thing for them after all (minus all the space issues).
Note I said some, since as you mentioned most won’t admit it to others and some won’t even admit it to themselves. The funny thing is that a xUV is now the default “soccer mom” vehicle that makes up the bulk of the vehicles in the school drop off line. The “cool” moms, in my area anyway, are now sitting in that drop off line in a 1/2 ton crew cab.
Yung
2 days ago
Yesterday I saw picture of Honda Brio and today it’s picture of Ertiga(*). Didn’t expect to see 2 common cars in Indonesia in a row in this site
Last edited 2 days ago by Yung
Cryptoenologist
2 days ago
The gas vs electric prices in NYC is one of the biggest differences vs California. Our electricity prices are similarly high, but the gas prices are so much higher that EV is a no brainer.
That being said, non-EV owners significantly overestimate the relative inconvenience of stopping for a charge while road tripping vs the routine inconvenience of stopping for gas and oil changes. For those that don’t regularly take cross country road trips and have US average or longer daily commutes, the amount of time spent over the year charging is way less than the gas and oil change time cost.
“The gas vs electric prices in NYC is one of the biggest differences vs California. Our electricity prices are similarly high, but the gas prices are so much higher that EV is a no brainer.”
How do you figure that?
I regularly compare gas to electricity here in the SFBA and I almost always find a gallon of regular at the local cheapest station works out to be at least slightly cheaper than filling up the same car with joules at home overnight (not even accounting for charging losses).
I figure this by comparing various PHEVs on the EPAs website to get as close of an apples to apples comparison of the two fuel sources as possible.
Energy costs: Current PGE EVA rates: $0.31/0.51/.0.62 per kWh vs $3.75/gal regular (I filled up yesterday)
Vehicles: Chrysler Pacifica hybrid, Toyota Rav4 Prime, Toyota Prius Prime, Chevy Volt
Plugging these numbers into the EPA calculator shows gasoline is a bit cheaper for these vehicles.
Of course YMMV. You might be stuck with more expensive public chargers only, maybe you can’t take advantage of off peak pricing, maybe you are lucky enough to charge at work for free or perhaps your looking at more expensive gas stations.
I haven’t seen gas under $4/gal in years, usually closer to $4.50 or $5. Your electric rates also appear to start cheaper. So I guess it depends on what part of California too.
California is a big state. A gallon of regular at $4 or below isn’t hard to find in the south SFBA.
I’m stuck with PG&E along with millions of fellow NorCalifornians which thanks to a combination of criminally negligent mismanagement and political influence has some of the highest rates and lowest customer satisfaction in the nation.
Right. California is a big state, which on gasbuddy’s map shows predominantly yellow, which according to their key is > $4.08, except for a small chunk of light orange in the north. So you’re basically agreeing with me? Where you live is the only part of California with easy-to-find gas under $4.
Not exactly. I dunno where in the state you live or how far you typically travel or what grades of gas you tend to buy so I can see how it’s possible you may have been in a bubble of $4-4.50 gas for the past few years. We are in summertime pricing now. In the south SFBA and gas has been lower than current rates during the past few years, especially in winter. IIRC I found gas a couple of years ago in Livermore for $3.15 and in SF for $3.35.
California is a big state with a LOT of gas stations. Which is where Gas buddy goes in. With that you can filter out the expensive stations and find the cheapest ones closest to you. Its especially useful when you travel. Obviously its not worth driving too far to save a few cents per gallon but there may be stations close by you’ve missed.
Disclaimer: No I don’t work for gasbuddy and it’s a long way from perfect. It keeps crashing on my phone and the ads are really annoying. As a Cheap Bastard I’m obliged to use it and to mention it in these type of discussions.
Mayor McZombie
2 days ago
They should have called it the Higherlander
Patches O' Houlihan
2 days ago
I put my money where my mouth was and bought the minivan (Sienna). Great car, swallows up cargo, but honest, I wish I had gotten the SUV instead.
It’s mostly a ground clearance thing. Our driveway sucks and with the low clearance you have to hit it at an angle to avoid it. Also, parking lot cement barriers are a problem.
journeys off road makes a lift kit for the sienna. my main thing is I love minivans but i need/want the ground clearance and want to be able to tow. I’m leaning to the lexus GX and accepting the terrible gas mileage.
Yeah, I get the ground clearance argument. A few winters ago over here we just had a month long freeze, thaw, freeze, thaw cycle that led to the road in front of my house being filled with ice spikes. One of those frozen slush spikes managed to line up directly with and be tall enough to destroy the oil pan on the Town & Country I had at the time. Probably wouldn’t have happened with just a bit more clearance.
We have three kids, including two teenagers, plus we often transport grandparents and friends.
I’m from California and therefore view the above notion as lunacy. If ten of us are at Person X’s house and we all agree to go to Restaurant Y, we’re gonna take ten cars. This is the way of things…
I agree. Cramming 7 people in any car is extremely rare. I don’t know that I’ve ever done it. I’ve had a vehicle that can haul 7 people for 6 years. My parents had one for decades. My brother has TWO. My sister has one. Most I’ve ever partaken in is 6.
And I’m not even in California.
Petefm
2 days ago
“It feels uninspired, like the creation of the Grand Cherokee from the Cherokee.”
Woah, buddy. Why are we bringing the Grand Cherokee into this?
Great article Matt in fact it made something occur to me that I never would have thought of and have never seen. Also toss this but the professor. We have seen countless of comments that no one needs a pick up because they seldom need the versatile aspect of a pickup, in fact usually one guy driving. We are then told a minivan is better and more versatile. Well gurus if it is just one guy driving not hauling how is the minivan any better? In addition, how often does one need to haul one cello, let alone two? I bet less often than gravel. So one person should be required to ride a motorcycle and rent something if it is not capable. A couple should be forced into a Miata. A couple with 1 or 2 kids a sedan. And only if more than 2 kids allowed to buy a minivan.
Really every argument against a pickup works against a minivan
The last time I played a musical insturment was when I was a teenager, and even I imagine I will haul cello-sized instruments more frequently than gravel.
Cellos fit nicely in the back seat of just about any medium sedan. I think you guys are getting cellos confused with double basses. For those you need a Volvo wagon
I suspect there aren’t many people who hail both cellos and gravel. Even on separate trips, I have made three coast-to-coast trips with three different women who brought their cellos along, and hardly any gravel. My mother on the other hand hold mini pick up loads of gravel and compost and God knows what else around in her pick up. Oh, and one time she hold about 2000 square feet of Mexican tile from Tijuana 475 miles back to her house in the trunk and back seat of a Mercedes 240 diesel.
She was , as one of my friends said, on the occasion of driving a 20 foot u-haul truck full of 3 punk band’s equipment to the 21 club in Manhattan, really hard core.
A minivan efficiently and safely carries itself around. For the capacity, they’re comfortable, quiet, efficient and easy to drive. They’re basically big cars that are very optimized for cabin space. Of course it’s
There are lots of reasons trucks get a bad rep. Some of them are objective, some are subjective, and others stem from social preconceptions and class hostilities.
A minivan is at a car’s height, so it’s safer for other vehicles and pedestrians, both in terms of impact profile and outward visibility. Their footprints fit in most parking spaces, and their headlights aren’t above other drivers’ eyes at night. Minivans are inoffensive, I don’t worry about getting pancaked by a minivan, but I do worry about trucks popping right over my roof.
Other objective social compromises of a truck are that they stick out of parking spaces, block sightlines on the road and cause unnecessary damage when involved in a crash. They generate more light, noise and air pollution than other vehicles due to being bigger and sitting higher.
On a more subjective note, the paranoia-driven Mad Max advertising and the public image they get from some drivers’ antics really doesn’t help, nor does the fact that trucks are more visible and threatening than smaller vehicles, so people are more likely to witness and remember Shocking Acts of Driving (SAD’s, for short) perpetuated by truck drivers.
And on the social side, there’s the price (and perceived price) of the things. When half-ton crew cabs start at 45k and trims hit 6 figures, they become perceived as upper-class things, and public perception really hates rich people, and will assume the worst of them when given the chance: a light-duty truck with no hitch means the owner bought it to look blue collar. A heavy-duty with a hitch means the owner has a collection of speedboats and dressage horses to tow around. This approach paints truck drivers as pretentious and selfish.
If there’s one group that gets more hate than rich people, however, it’s poor people. The other, arguably worse truck stereotype is the 26% APR, 72-month loan with an underwater trade-in, or the structurally compromised Marketplace find (no title, bill of sale only) with an eBay lift kit. This angle of the perception usually centers around truck drivers being financially irresponsible and antisocial.
TL;DR trucks are unpleasant to be around, and their drivers are surrounded by a plethora of stereotypes that largely hinge around being self-centered, which isn’t aided by the marketing and price point, while minivans are generally inoffensive to coexist with and don’t draw much attention to themselves.
“Well gurus if it is just one guy driving not hauling how is the minivan any better?”
If that other option is a full sized pickup truck or SUV the minivan likely will:
Have better MPG
Have much better emergency handling
Present better visibility for its driver and for other drivers (less truckbutt)
Be much less likely to injure or kill someone else in a crash.
Other potential benefits:
Be cheaper to buy (Given the crazy prices new pickups and SUVs run now)
Dunno about the costs to insure but that’s worth looking into.
If the other vehicle in question is an older full sized work pickup vs an older minivan the minivan will (probably) on top of all the points mentioned above be quieter and more comfortable too.
The argument against the pickup is just about hauling pickup things once or twice a year. The argument for minivan is general juxtaposed to crossover or SUV in the context of hauling kids and kid stuff weekly.
If you have a kid who plays the cello, you’re probably hauling the cello at least once a week. Would you rather do it in a minivan or an SUV? I’m sure someone could transport a kid and a cello (or hockey stuff, or saddles, or double-stroller or whatever) in a pickup truck, but that’s not usually the question at hand.
Anonymous Person
2 days ago
“Did I mention that he’s a professor of physics at a prestigious university?“
I agree. I’ll take words over any random group of letters and numbers, except for pickups and vans where I’m fine with F-150, C-10 ect. I guess that is in part because trucks have always been that way since it was the brand’s “initial” followed by a number that referenced the truck class.
Exactly. They’ve been extremely consistent over a long period of time; they’re easily interpreted (e.g., higher number = higher capacity). Not stuff like BMW or whoever where the numbering convention changes every so often, leaving one in the dust.
Not really, volumetric measurements in general are kind of hard to visualize. I prefer linear (length x height x width), it isn’t perfect but it seems easier to visualize what will fit vs. what won’t fit which is kind of the whole point of a standardized measurement.
Back to the point though, the real advantage of the metric system is when you need to convert. Using your snarky example as a starting point I can easily tell you that since 1L=a cube that is 10cm to a side (10 cm³),120L would be a bit smaller than a cube 50cm to a side (125L in this case, to keep the math simple because this was done in my head by multiplying 4x4x4=64 too small, 5x5x5=125 pretty close), or a little smaller than 19.7 inches to a side (this was the only part of this example not done in my head).
The same 120L equates to 31.7006 gallons which I’ll round down to 30 so we’re starting from a round number to keep things fair. 1 gallon= 231 in³ which would be a cube 6.13 inches to a side (needing a calculator because who the hell knows the cube root of 231). Now 30 of those would be a cube 19.01 inches to a side which is a PITA to figure out without multiplying the 231 in³ by 30 (6930) then finding the cube root, which I’m betting very few people could do without a calculator or conversion tool.
For the pedants, the actual final dimension for the metric example would be 49.3 cm per side or 19.4 inches. I consider an estimate with an error of 0.3″ to be pretty good for this purpose which was to demonstrate how much easier it is to get the linear size of a given volume in the metric system compared to imperial units.
What if we agreed on a specific person. Torch, would you be willing to be the official reference body when we measure the volume of a windowless trunk?
A tuba or a Sousaphone which is an orchestra tube? I know this because after the Johnstown flood I needed to haul a Sousaphone for a parade because our band tubas got ruined.
Does the bass need to ride in the upright position?
Eggsalad
2 days ago
Americans seem to dislike both the term and the concept of the MPV, but in reality, they’re a great compromise, and will meet the needs of many Americans.
Jatco Xtronic CVT
2 days ago
Sounds like your friend is a smart guy, and is in need of a smart solution.
“#1: We wanted a fuel efficient car.” Well, the proper transmission is right there… the Jatco Xtronic CVT is designed to be efficient as well as smooth. How’s that?
But then I read “#2 I’m biased towards Toyota’s hybrid e-CVT engine/transmission” and I know it’s hopeless…
I’d like to buy a collection of gently used RV meth labs and brothels then. But I don’t have enough parking at my place so I’ll need to store the collection somewhere.
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As a professional cello roadie (read: I married a professional cellist), I can confirm cello capacity is a completely valid litmus test with which to judge a vehicle. For example, seat up, our Outback can hold 1 cello plus associated gear. And yes, we brought a cello case to the test drive.
That said, please say a small prayer for anyone whose child wants to play bass (the non-guitar type) or harp, as their car options are extremely limited, especially if they also want a family.
I had a harpist friend who drove a Focus ST. With the back seats folded down and the passenger seat pushed all the way forward, the harp fit, but she couldn’t shift into 6th because the harp was in the way.
No possible way that was a full size harp! We need pics! Oh, wait….no pics here.
Comment still applies: We (Autopian) need pics!
Or if your kid is a drummer, then your options are really limited. Also the band always rehearses at the drummer’s apartment.
Someone in the neighborhood has a fiberglass upright bass case that attaches to the roof of his car like one of those Thule cargo boxes / roof coffins
I thought harpists were like pianists and their instruments simply manifested themselves at the performance venue. Now that I think of it, I’ve seen Zeena Parkins with a harp shipping crate that was pretty gigantic.
All the professional drummers I know have minivans.
Pretty much. When I was younger, old hearses were the thing.
When my son first got interested in having a band, he told me one evening that he was interested in either being the drummer or the bass player, and I said, “I think Sam Ash is open till 9 pm and I am sure they have a left-handed bass.” and called a cab.
South Africa is listed as the country with the fifth highest crime rate worldwide. Your friend spent two weeks driving around South Africa? That is one bad ass professor.
Viticulture plays quicker the more times you do it!
That’s what I expect most buyers do, even after comparisons, etc.
Maybe you guys should do a deep dive on the way pedestrian impact crash requirements are fueling the front end bloat on modern cars.
It’s not really a big mystery. Pedestrian crash safety mandates that there needs to be some space between the hood and the engine. If you mow someone down the rounded shape of the hood keeps them from taking a 2nd hard hit as they bang off the top of the engine. The rounded top of the hood is meant to provide some cushion (as soft as a steel hood can be) vs just having someone bang their melon off the engine.
One of the many reasons the Tesla Cybertruck is not approved for use in Europe.
Apparently it’s a big mystery to the Author’s professor friend which is why I quoted him. There’s an awful lot that goes into the development of the front end of a modern car and I think most people underestimate that and just assume the designers have poor taste (granted sometimes they do, but that’s beside the point).
Except the high hoods on American vehicles, “trucks” mostly, are so high that no pedestrian is going to be bouncing off of the hood and windshield. The soft bouncy hood only works if the hood is about waist high. If the hood is chest high, then how much it yields is irrelevant.
What if you hit a møøse?!
The higher the hood, the likeliest you are going to kill whoever you hit with the car.
I guess America dont care about killing pedestrians. At least dont care enough that feeling rugged and manly and powerful is more important.
Add some bars at the front to play act like you are going on a safari so you can instead kill pedestrian more efficiently.
One point of contention for your friend: the Dodge Durango is NOT a truck frame-based SUV. It’s a somewhat rare longitudinal drivetrain, transfer case 4×4, unibody SUV, with bones traceable all the way back to the early ’10s Mercedes M-class.
It’ll also suck down double the fuel of a hybrid Highlander, but then the Toyota probably sucks down twice the monthly payment. The third row isn’t a place to put adults for long, either.
This is what people don’t understand. The $4000 premium for the grand highlander hybrid takes over 7 years to recoup than if they’d just bought the gasser. That’s just a quick MSRP Versus Fuel Cost savings. That doesn’t include driving less or the more interest paid on a potentially larger loan. That’s a terrible value proposition.
I never understand that everyone likes to point this out, there are other considerations like:
Agree the value may not be there, but there are intangibles. Also for me I was giving up a 6speed manual Veloster for my now husband, so I wanted a hybrid with lots of tech (Niro) to replace my car!
Plus not having any shifting at all with the planetary gear eCVT is really nice around town compared to the 8-speed automatic that never knows what gear it wants to be in. It’ll take me a long time to overcome the extra money I spent on my Maverick hybrid but imo it’s a nicer driving experience than the gas Maverick.
Being more greenUsing less gas “feels better”Hyrbrids feel a bit punchier, and the eCVT is more reliable than the automatic they use (or at least used to).
You don’t understand why the largest expense outside of a house should be analyzed and judged for the value it provides?
What are the chances of gas prices remaining as low as they are today for the next seven years?
If people start buying vehicles that use more gas, that will drive demand and prices up. If some random apocalyptic thing happens, prices may go way up, but we will all be bartering potatoes and teenage children for fuel, or demand will plummet because there is nowhere to go.
And if people use less gas, manufacturers will reduce refinery capacity due to lower demand, which will make prices go up. If a hurricane damages a refinery, prices go up. A hurricane misses a refinery, prices go up.
Calculating vehicle tco based on current gas prices is like cashing out your retirement fund because you just won big at the slots and you just know you’re on a hot streak now!
Yes, it’s one of those games where the only winning strategy is not to play. Or at least play as little as possible.
If that last 10 years tell us anything, pretty good chance they stay low.
Well, only if everybody stays home, but official policy right now is to do everything possible to raise gas prices.
Two misses:
Otherwise, a winner.
Source: current owner of 2021 Highlander Hybrid.
It is hard to argue against the beauty of a planetary e-CVT, a simple but elegant solution to the CVT problem and Hybrid operation. Plus the basic design has decades of proven durability, thanks in part to the simplicity.
Speaking of the psychology of car purchasing, two stories.
When I met my now wife she drove a Tercel Sedan and she specifically said she didn’t want the hatchback version. “A hatchback is too much like a station wagon and station wagons are mommy mobiles”. Fast forward and she becomes a mommy. Once the second one came around it became pretty obvious that we needed something more than a 4dr sedan. By this time station wagons were well on their way out, minivans were the new mommy mobile and SUVs were just starting to really take off. She resisted but being thrifty like me she did agree that minivans were the value proposition, that is what we bought.
Fast forward a couple of years and she had to travel to her Grand Mother’s funeral in January, in North Dakota. I insisted she rent a 4wd and she soon found herself behind the wheel of a Ford Explorer. Well by the end of summer we had a SUV. I smartly declined to mention that a truck version of a station wagon.
Story 2, I was talking with one of the students I coach and somehow it came up that her mother drove a Ford Flex. Since they are a cool niche vehicle I had to ask why her mother chose that. She said that her mother needed a minivan but wouldn’t be caught dead driving a minivan.
Moral of those stories is of course that people do have an aversion to some types of vehicles and simply won’t consider them, and some of those aren’t afraid to to admit it.
Minivans are weird that way.
My mom spent years saying she hated minivans and would never buy one. And then we rented a Windstar for a vacation and she didn’t drive anything else until she stopped driving.
Some people who would genuinely love a type of vehicle can be convinced if they can just get in one, but if they never get in one, they will never know.
I agree and for my wife a few days behind the wheel of a SUV changed her from “it looks too much like a station wagon” and “I like something small, agile and fun to drive” to I want one of those. When gas prices spiked we did end up relegating that SUV to ocassional use and she did go back to sedans for her daily driver, but now is now driving a CUV.
That may be so, but in my experience most people won’t admit to why they really won’t drive a minivan. They dont want to just come out and I think im too “cool” for a minivan. And if that is the case, then most likely, they really aren’t. And to go further won’t be “cool” in any vehicle, regardless of its type.
That’s the truth of the matter for most people. I tried to tell my brother in law that since they had two little kids and were car shopping, they should at least try a van. Nope, would NOT have it, wouldn’t even consider it. They got a rental-spec Highlander instead. I remember the first time they drove out to us with it. It was packed to the ceiling with crap. They brought the two kids, plus the grandparents and a dog. They had a roof bag on, there was stuff in all the footwells, under the seats, the entire tiny cargo area was full so the rear window was totally blocked.
I REALLY had to work on not saying something like “well this was a dumb fucking choice, I told you to get a minivan” but my wife kept elbowing and pinching me.
Not sure what is cool about the cheapest fwd SUV you can afford. He’s an art teacher, she’s a early education teacher. Neither would qualify as cool and that gray cloth-seated Toyota sure doesn’t either. Maybe it’s the perfect thing for them after all (minus all the space issues).
God that was a great rant.
Note I said some, since as you mentioned most won’t admit it to others and some won’t even admit it to themselves. The funny thing is that a xUV is now the default “soccer mom” vehicle that makes up the bulk of the vehicles in the school drop off line. The “cool” moms, in my area anyway, are now sitting in that drop off line in a 1/2 ton crew cab.
Yesterday I saw picture of Honda Brio and today it’s picture of Ertiga(*). Didn’t expect to see 2 common cars in Indonesia in a row in this site
The gas vs electric prices in NYC is one of the biggest differences vs California. Our electricity prices are similarly high, but the gas prices are so much higher that EV is a no brainer.
That being said, non-EV owners significantly overestimate the relative inconvenience of stopping for a charge while road tripping vs the routine inconvenience of stopping for gas and oil changes. For those that don’t regularly take cross country road trips and have US average or longer daily commutes, the amount of time spent over the year charging is way less than the gas and oil change time cost.
“The gas vs electric prices in NYC is one of the biggest differences vs California. Our electricity prices are similarly high, but the gas prices are so much higher that EV is a no brainer.”
How do you figure that?
I regularly compare gas to electricity here in the SFBA and I almost always find a gallon of regular at the local cheapest station works out to be at least slightly cheaper than filling up the same car with joules at home overnight (not even accounting for charging losses).
I figure this by comparing various PHEVs on the EPAs website to get as close of an apples to apples comparison of the two fuel sources as possible.
Energy costs: Current PGE EVA rates: $0.31/0.51/.0.62 per kWh vs $3.75/gal regular (I filled up yesterday)
Vehicles: Chrysler Pacifica hybrid, Toyota Rav4 Prime, Toyota Prius Prime, Chevy Volt
Plugging these numbers into the EPA calculator shows gasoline is a bit cheaper for these vehicles.
https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=48656&id=47230&id=49015&id=37309&#tab1
Of course YMMV. You might be stuck with more expensive public chargers only, maybe you can’t take advantage of off peak pricing, maybe you are lucky enough to charge at work for free or perhaps your looking at more expensive gas stations.
I haven’t seen gas under $4/gal in years, usually closer to $4.50 or $5. Your electric rates also appear to start cheaper. So I guess it depends on what part of California too.
Gasbuddy is your, well, your buddy:
https://www.gasbuddy.com/gaspricemap?lat=38.822395&lng=-96.591588&z=4
California is a big state. A gallon of regular at $4 or below isn’t hard to find in the south SFBA.
I’m stuck with PG&E along with millions of fellow NorCalifornians which thanks to a combination of criminally negligent mismanagement and political influence has some of the highest rates and lowest customer satisfaction in the nation.
https://www.independent.com/2024/04/27/heres-the-real-reason-pge-rates-are-skyrocketing-in-california/
https://www.timesheraldonline.com/2024/03/19/pge-electric-gas-energy-utility-bill-customer-satisfaction-pay-fire/
Go to Sacramento and SMUD pricing makes BEVs a much clearer win. In PG&E land? Not so much.
Right. California is a big state, which on gasbuddy’s map shows predominantly yellow, which according to their key is > $4.08, except for a small chunk of light orange in the north. So you’re basically agreeing with me? Where you live is the only part of California with easy-to-find gas under $4.
“So you’re basically agreeing with me?”
Not exactly. I dunno where in the state you live or how far you typically travel or what grades of gas you tend to buy so I can see how it’s possible you may have been in a bubble of $4-4.50 gas for the past few years. We are in summertime pricing now. In the south SFBA and gas has been lower than current rates during the past few years, especially in winter. IIRC I found gas a couple of years ago in Livermore for $3.15 and in SF for $3.35.
California is a big state with a LOT of gas stations. Which is where Gas buddy goes in. With that you can filter out the expensive stations and find the cheapest ones closest to you. Its especially useful when you travel. Obviously its not worth driving too far to save a few cents per gallon but there may be stations close by you’ve missed.
Disclaimer: No I don’t work for gasbuddy and it’s a long way from perfect. It keeps crashing on my phone and the ads are really annoying. As a Cheap Bastard I’m obliged to use it and to mention it in these type of discussions.
They should have called it the Higherlander
I put my money where my mouth was and bought the minivan (Sienna). Great car, swallows up cargo, but honest, I wish I had gotten the SUV instead.
It’s mostly a ground clearance thing. Our driveway sucks and with the low clearance you have to hit it at an angle to avoid it. Also, parking lot cement barriers are a problem.
journeys off road makes a lift kit for the sienna. my main thing is I love minivans but i need/want the ground clearance and want to be able to tow. I’m leaning to the lexus GX and accepting the terrible gas mileage.
Yeah, I get the ground clearance argument. A few winters ago over here we just had a month long freeze, thaw, freeze, thaw cycle that led to the road in front of my house being filled with ice spikes. One of those frozen slush spikes managed to line up directly with and be tall enough to destroy the oil pan on the Town & Country I had at the time. Probably wouldn’t have happened with just a bit more clearance.
So you want an SUV because you’re a bad driver. That actually tracks for a lot of people.
What do minivan owners and CrossFit people have in common…?
They’re highly capable, and good at somethings but great a nothing?
More likely to be swingers?
never shut up about minivans/crossfit?
I’m from California and therefore view the above notion as lunacy. If ten of us are at Person X’s house and we all agree to go to Restaurant Y, we’re gonna take ten cars. This is the way of things…
Slightly overstated, but as a fellow California resident I appreciate how true this feels. Three cars minimum for a group of 10 people, probably four.
I agree. Cramming 7 people in any car is extremely rare. I don’t know that I’ve ever done it. I’ve had a vehicle that can haul 7 people for 6 years. My parents had one for decades. My brother has TWO. My sister has one. Most I’ve ever partaken in is 6.
And I’m not even in California.
“It feels uninspired, like the creation of the Grand Cherokee from the Cherokee.”
Woah, buddy. Why are we bringing the Grand Cherokee into this?
… And not discuss the Grand Wagoneer?
Great article Matt in fact it made something occur to me that I never would have thought of and have never seen. Also toss this but the professor. We have seen countless of comments that no one needs a pick up because they seldom need the versatile aspect of a pickup, in fact usually one guy driving. We are then told a minivan is better and more versatile. Well gurus if it is just one guy driving not hauling how is the minivan any better? In addition, how often does one need to haul one cello, let alone two? I bet less often than gravel. So one person should be required to ride a motorcycle and rent something if it is not capable. A couple should be forced into a Miata. A couple with 1 or 2 kids a sedan. And only if more than 2 kids allowed to buy a minivan.
Really every argument against a pickup works against a minivan
> how often does one need to haul one cello, let alone two? I bet less often than gravel
As a musician, I have hauled cello-sized instruments several hundred times more than gravel.
The last time I played a musical insturment was when I was a teenager, and even I imagine I will haul cello-sized instruments more frequently than gravel.
Cellos come in different sizes.
Cellos fit nicely in the back seat of just about any medium sedan. I think you guys are getting cellos confused with double basses. For those you need a Volvo wagon
We’re not discussing size so much as the contention that gravel gets hauled more often than the cellos in the story.
I suspect there aren’t many people who hail both cellos and gravel. Even on separate trips, I have made three coast-to-coast trips with three different women who brought their cellos along, and hardly any gravel. My mother on the other hand hold mini pick up loads of gravel and compost and God knows what else around in her pick up. Oh, and one time she hold about 2000 square feet of Mexican tile from Tijuana 475 miles back to her house in the trunk and back seat of a Mercedes 240 diesel.
She was , as one of my friends said, on the occasion of driving a 20 foot u-haul truck full of 3 punk band’s equipment to the 21 club in Manhattan, really hard core.
Not to stereotype, I suspect the punk bands’ gear did not include cellos.
No, but I think one of the bands had an upright base and a Fender Rhodes piano.
It was in 1978, I’m a little fuzzy on the details.
Also, do not underestimate the destructive power of a cello a looping pedal and a fuzz pedal, paired with an accordion through Twin Reverbs.
Typo, not mini pickups, but this pickup.
https://dailyturismo.com/hughs-truck-1991-dodge-ram-250-cummins-diesel/
A minivan efficiently and safely carries itself around. For the capacity, they’re comfortable, quiet, efficient and easy to drive. They’re basically big cars that are very optimized for cabin space. Of course it’s
There are lots of reasons trucks get a bad rep. Some of them are objective, some are subjective, and others stem from social preconceptions and class hostilities.
A minivan is at a car’s height, so it’s safer for other vehicles and pedestrians, both in terms of impact profile and outward visibility. Their footprints fit in most parking spaces, and their headlights aren’t above other drivers’ eyes at night. Minivans are inoffensive, I don’t worry about getting pancaked by a minivan, but I do worry about trucks popping right over my roof.
Other objective social compromises of a truck are that they stick out of parking spaces, block sightlines on the road and cause unnecessary damage when involved in a crash. They generate more light, noise and air pollution than other vehicles due to being bigger and sitting higher.
On a more subjective note, the paranoia-driven Mad Max advertising and the public image they get from some drivers’ antics really doesn’t help, nor does the fact that trucks are more visible and threatening than smaller vehicles, so people are more likely to witness and remember Shocking Acts of Driving (SAD’s, for short) perpetuated by truck drivers.
And on the social side, there’s the price (and perceived price) of the things. When half-ton crew cabs start at 45k and trims hit 6 figures, they become perceived as upper-class things, and public perception really hates rich people, and will assume the worst of them when given the chance: a light-duty truck with no hitch means the owner bought it to look blue collar. A heavy-duty with a hitch means the owner has a collection of speedboats and dressage horses to tow around. This approach paints truck drivers as pretentious and selfish.
If there’s one group that gets more hate than rich people, however, it’s poor people. The other, arguably worse truck stereotype is the 26% APR, 72-month loan with an underwater trade-in, or the structurally compromised Marketplace find (no title, bill of sale only) with an eBay lift kit. This angle of the perception usually centers around truck drivers being financially irresponsible and antisocial.
TL;DR trucks are unpleasant to be around, and their drivers are surrounded by a plethora of stereotypes that largely hinge around being self-centered, which isn’t aided by the marketing and price point, while minivans are generally inoffensive to coexist with and don’t draw much attention to themselves.
Those Steyr-Puch Pinzgauers seem like a reasonable compromise for local traffic, or this nice Volve https://www.classic.com/veh/1975-volvo-c303-c034x4000373-pEabONp/
“Well gurus if it is just one guy driving not hauling how is the minivan any better?”
If that other option is a full sized pickup truck or SUV the minivan likely will:
Have better MPG
Have much better emergency handling
Present better visibility for its driver and for other drivers (less truckbutt)
Be much less likely to injure or kill someone else in a crash.
Other potential benefits:
Be cheaper to buy (Given the crazy prices new pickups and SUVs run now)
Dunno about the costs to insure but that’s worth looking into.
If the other vehicle in question is an older full sized work pickup vs an older minivan the minivan will (probably) on top of all the points mentioned above be quieter and more comfortable too.
Of course YMMV.
The argument against the pickup is just about hauling pickup things once or twice a year. The argument for minivan is general juxtaposed to crossover or SUV in the context of hauling kids and kid stuff weekly.
If you have a kid who plays the cello, you’re probably hauling the cello at least once a week. Would you rather do it in a minivan or an SUV? I’m sure someone could transport a kid and a cello (or hockey stuff, or saddles, or double-stroller or whatever) in a pickup truck, but that’s not usually the question at hand.
“Did I mention that he’s a professor of physics at a prestigious university?“
Counts to five in his e-mail… 1-2-2-4-5
It’s 1,2,2,3,4, but that’s hilarious, I didn’t notice at all!
No 0110101001100010
Nice!
Just get a Class A RV, room for everyone and their stuff.
still needs a lift kit (for all those difficult to traverse suburban roads)
I’m sorry, but your friend has become my new archnemesis.
Not that “Grand Highlander” is good, but even Toyota’s generally-weak vehicle names are superior to alphanumeric codes as names.
I agree. I’ll take words over any random group of letters and numbers, except for pickups and vans where I’m fine with F-150, C-10 ect. I guess that is in part because trucks have always been that way since it was the brand’s “initial” followed by a number that referenced the truck class.
Exactly. They’ve been extremely consistent over a long period of time; they’re easily interpreted (e.g., higher number = higher capacity). Not stuff like BMW or whoever where the numbering convention changes every so often, leaving one in the dust.
Just you wait! Soon Toyota will be revealing the Grand Busy For…um…Grand BZ. And after that, the Final Boss BZ.
How did cellos enter the conversation in the first place? Is that a standard measurement now?
“My cargo area is 5 cellos.” I mean, wtf. Everyone knows the true cargo measurement is dogs.
My 4Runner can fit 400 lbs of german shepherd in the cargo area.
You could fit a dozen Cello’s in a pickup
And have about two dozen when you get to your destination.
My A6 Wagon fits 3 Bassets Hounds without breaking a sweat… I mean, it’s damp back there, but that’s just drool.
No, it’s Alanises.
Damn it, beat me to it. Respect
Wait I don’t get it! I hate it when that happens.
https://www.youtube.com/@AlanisKing
Watch and learn. You’re welcome
400 lbs.of German Shedders? And 80 lbs. of excess fur.
We’re currently on our third GSD, can confirm…
Once again, America will use literally anything other than the metric system…
Okay, 120 liters of storage. Feel better now? And how big is that exactly? Oh, you’re going to give me a size metaphor, of course. Duh.
Not really, volumetric measurements in general are kind of hard to visualize. I prefer linear (length x height x width), it isn’t perfect but it seems easier to visualize what will fit vs. what won’t fit which is kind of the whole point of a standardized measurement.
Back to the point though, the real advantage of the metric system is when you need to convert. Using your snarky example as a starting point I can easily tell you that since 1L=a cube that is 10cm to a side (10 cm³),120L would be a bit smaller than a cube 50cm to a side (125L in this case, to keep the math simple because this was done in my head by multiplying 4x4x4=64 too small, 5x5x5=125 pretty close), or a little smaller than 19.7 inches to a side (this was the only part of this example not done in my head).
The same 120L equates to 31.7006 gallons which I’ll round down to 30 so we’re starting from a round number to keep things fair. 1 gallon= 231 in³ which would be a cube 6.13 inches to a side (needing a calculator because who the hell knows the cube root of 231). Now 30 of those would be a cube 19.01 inches to a side which is a PITA to figure out without multiplying the 231 in³ by 30 (6930) then finding the cube root, which I’m betting very few people could do without a calculator or conversion tool.
For the pedants, the actual final dimension for the metric example would be 49.3 cm per side or 19.4 inches. I consider an estimate with an error of 0.3″ to be pretty good for this purpose which was to demonstrate how much easier it is to get the linear size of a given volume in the metric system compared to imperial units.
Easier than bananas.
Woah, hold your horses! When did we stop using bodies as the standard??
Dead bodies are the standard unit for windowless trunks only.
Inflation. American bodies keep getting bigger along with our trending portion sizes. No longer a reliable standard.
What if we agreed on a specific person. Torch, would you be willing to be the official reference body when we measure the volume of a windowless trunk?
Don’t get him started! He’ll be evaluating the tail lights the entire time!
I thought that standard was officially revised to trunks fitting Alanis Kings?
I refuse to drive anything that won’t comfortably accommodate a tuba and upright bass along with 5-7 passengers.
A tuba or a Sousaphone which is an orchestra tube? I know this because after the Johnstown flood I needed to haul a Sousaphone for a parade because our band tubas got ruined.
A Sousaphone is a marching tuba.
How were the band tubas ruined in the flood?? Were they just left sitting in the water for ages?
I feel like I saw this with a Cosworth Mercedes on an episode of Top Gear…
Does the bass need to ride in the upright position?
Americans seem to dislike both the term and the concept of the MPV, but in reality, they’re a great compromise, and will meet the needs of many Americans.
Sounds like your friend is a smart guy, and is in need of a smart solution.
“#1: We wanted a fuel efficient car.” Well, the proper transmission is right there… the Jatco Xtronic CVT is designed to be efficient as well as smooth. How’s that?
But then I read “#2 I’m biased towards Toyota’s hybrid e-CVT engine/transmission” and I know it’s hopeless…
Shoulda got the old Pathfinder Hybrid. Supercharged, hybridized, and with a Jatco CVT! Best of all worlds!
Not the CVT, but the 2nd gen Mazda MPV features the equally reliable but less fuel efficient Jatco JF506E/F5A5.
*Is a Physics professor
Cannot number to 5
1
2
2
3
4
This was also the main thing I got from the article.
errors are bound to happen when you think in quaterions and translate to integers
Just buy what you like,it’s your money.
Finally, someone who gets it!
I’d like to buy a collection of gently used RV meth labs and brothels then. But I don’t have enough parking at my place so I’ll need to store the collection somewhere.
How’s the street parking in your neighborhood?