Human behavior is somehow both complex and predictable. When the jackpot for a lottery goes up, more people buy tickets, which means the likelihood of splitting a pot reduces the overall expected value. In theory, then, you wouldn’t buy a ticket. But when the pot gets bigger, more people buy tickets.
Today’s Morning Dump is all about the way we bags o’ meat operate, or don’t. There’s a big piece out this week on the question of whether self-driving taxis are really safer and, even if they are, if human nature won’t end up making them more fatal. Affordability is a huge issue here in the United States, though in China, the issue is that cars are too affordable.
Designer Thomas Ingelnath designed some beautiful cars for Volvo, which helped them sell cars. So they made him head of the company’s EV brand. Did it work? It did not, so now Ingelnath is back at his old job.
Does the average person care about the World Endurance Championship? Unfortunately, I think the answer is “not so much.” Will that stop me from writing about the new Toyota? It will not.
Humans Always Want A Deus Ex Machina

As a break from economics books and old English lit, I’m reading The Expanse series. It’s easy, fun science fiction, and I recommend the books for anyone who suspects that living in space might not be easy or fun. There’s one little trick in the book to get over the distance problem in space, and it’s called an “Epstein Drive” which, in retrospect, they’d have probably named something else.
The rest of the books put the characters and, to some extent, the reader, through punishing and terrible efforts to achieve a goal without the benefit of a simple solution. If anyone gets lucky in these books, they end up paying a terrible price for that luck. The Latin name given to the originally Greek plot device wherein some bit of favorable chance or divine intervention solves a problem and neatly wraps up a story is deus ex machina, and there’s a way to look at self-driving cars as a solution to a big problem.
Maybe it’s better to say that self-driving cars are being used as a potential solution to a lot of problems, but the main one is that we’ve built most of our society around cars, and cars are kinda hard to drive, and people are not always great at driving them.
The most effective course would be to dramatically rework our transportation nodes and development in order to reduce reliance on automobiles. Plenty of countries have reduced road fatalities this way, although most of them are Nordic countries or, like, Liechtenstein.
This is going to be a lot harder in America. So, sure, robotaxis. Not everyone is great about sharing data, but Waymo does a ton of miles, and its own data (while not conclusive) shows that it’s probably doing better than humans in some situations. Robotaxis do weird things, but they have nothing on the strangeness humans can achieve behind the wheel.
There’s a long Bloomberg piece from David Zipper on this topic, and a lot of it is shrugging because, well, we don’t have enough good data yet, both because not everyone will release data, and because the data necessary to make complete conclusions is probably billions of miles. I think it’s correct to be skeptical that driverless cars are going to suddenly make our lives better, even if they’re better drivers, and some of it comes back to human behavior:
Robotaxis will also spend many miles deadheading, posing at least some risk to other road users even as they drive around empty (and potentially causing gridlock that slows everyone else on the street). If AVs become privately owned, they could be used on longer journeys that would have otherwise occurred on different modes — or not happen at all: Think daily multi-hour commutes to distant workplaces. (Or these cars might be empty, too, dispatched to perform ridehailing duty during their off hours.)
All this extra motion brings greater risks. If AVs are 20% safer than human drivers and expand total driving by 30%, total crashes would increase by 4%. (The effect would be higher still if people shift to AVs from transit, which is exceptionally safe.)
This is the standard that self-driven vehicles must meet to produce an overall reduction in crashes. Simply outperforming human-driven cars is not enough; they must do so to such an extent that they compensate for any added miles driven. But current AV safety analyses seldom take such network effects into account.
You know what’s safe? A train. Way fewer people die per trip in a train or subway car than in an automobile. I know there are some people afraid of taking public transit, but I usually feel much safer on public transit than I do dealing with other New York drivers.
If I lived in San Francisco, I’d get rid of my daily driver, get something fun, and just Waymo everywhere. Insurance, parking, fuel, and upkeep are all at nonsensical prices in SF, so my guess is that this would be the cheaper option. It might even encourage me to travel more, which is the last thing SF needs.
Waymos are great if you can access them, and it’s totally possible they’ll be a net benefit for society. I just don’t think we should take it for granted that this will be the case.
Western Carmakers Are Cutting Prices In China Even Though China’s Government Wishes They Wouldn’t
In the United States, our elected officials are concerned about car prices being too high. In China, appointed regulators are concerned about car prices going too low, and have asked automakers to stop slashing prices so much.
While it’s impressive how China has leapfrogged the rest of the world in EV development, it’s largely because the Chinese government at every level spent enormous resources to do so and created an overcapacity problem that means there are too many cars being made. The invisible hand of the market would have struggled to achieve what the very visible hand of the Chinese government did, but it comes at its own price.
Are Western automakers like BMW, GM, and Volkswagen going to stop cutting prices just because regulators asked them to? It doesn’t seem like it, and their reasoning, from Bloomberg via Automotive News China, is hilarious:
The price adjustments from BMW and some other brands are more about aligning recommended pricing to be closer to the final transaction price, which can be much lower after rounds of haggling at showrooms. The new prices aren’t lower than the actual transaction price at the dealer level last year, so that doesn’t count as a price war, said Yale Zhang, managing director of consultancy Automotive Foresight.
In principle, BMW’s price cut helps alleviate pressure on dealers resorting to further negotiation at the retail level, said Li Yanwei, an advisor to the China Automobile Dealers Association.
But it’s unclear how persuasive that logic will be when car buyers seek to drive a hard bargain in showrooms and dealers are anxious to move vehicles off their lots.
If the problem is that Chinese consumers, who have immense power in a market that’s overwhelmed with supply, negotiate too hard, then I don’t see how lowering the price is going to help.
Volvo Designer-Turned CEO Turns Back Into Volvo Designer

Oh boy. I will one day own a Polestar 1, even if by the time I can afford one, it’ll be too expensive to keep running. I’m a sucker for the design, which was originally penned by then-Volvo designer Thomas Ingenlath.
That became the first stand-alone car for Polestar, the now all-EV automaker owned by Volvo parent company Geely. Also, Ingenlath became the CEO, which is rare for a designer. Did it work? It did not. Polestar is not a success, although I’m not 100% sure anyone could have made Polestar work given the timing.
Either way, Ingenlath is back at Volvo as “Chief Design Officer” effective February 1st.
“I am delighted to be returning to Volvo Cars. Design is fundamental to what Volvo stands for. I look forward to working closely with the teams across the company, developing cars that are distinct, relevant and true to the Volvo brand.” says Thomas Ingenlath.
Bring back wagons, Thomas, and I’ll forgive you just about anything.
Check Out The Toyota TR010 Hybrid

Toyota has finally updated the look of its World Endurance Championship hypercar, the new TR010 Hybrid. If it looks familiar, it’s because it now shares a face with the upcoming GR GT supercar.
This is the way a prototype should look, in my estimation, and the fact that there’s a somewhat similar streetable version is just icing on the choux bun. Also, the team is now just “Toyota Racing” as opposed to “Toyota Gazoo Racing Europe a subsidiary of Toyota Gazoo Racing.”
Neat.
What I’m Listening To While Writing TMD
Did I mention I got to see Jeff Tweedy and his large adult sons sing with Yo La Tengo during their Hannukkah residency? I did, and it was great. No one asked, but “Via Chicago” is one of the best Wilco songs, and “Summerteeth” is the album for me.
The Big Question
Have you taken a robotaxi before? Would you?
Top photo: Waymo/Imagine Entertainment










“cars are kinda hard to drive”
Not true. Cars (and the built environment to support them) are so easy to use that the average 16 year old can learn how to do it safely and effectively.
Right? If they were hard to operate, public transport would be the norm and exactly zero people would be texting while eating a breakfast sandwich on the freeway.
Exactly. Based on my news feed, behaving like a responsible adult is the really hard thing to do.
The robo taxis aren’t safer at all. In fact they’re more dangerous, but that’s not the point. The point is to use ridiculously stupid tech bro ideas to artificially inflate the value of stonks to make the richest people in the world even richer. It’s all a grift, and boy is it a successful one.
Wait, why more dangerous? I mean to the point made, I have seen Waymos do stupid stuff, but far more humans do stupid stuff. I’m not sure if per capita the stupid stuff is more Waymo than human..
Dreamed about getting killed in a Waymo last night, and it felt terrible to me…
Ingenlath also designed my Polestar 2 and while I admit that P1 is a very handsome car (it really needed to lean a little harder into its P1800 heritage and BRING BACK TAIL FINS!!!) I’m very happy with my P2’s styling. When I traded my BRZ for it I was worried I wouldn’t be as happy with the looks but I find myself looking back at it every time I walk away just like I used to do with my BRZ.
Also that Audi above with the “AUDI” on the grill is really twisting my noodle. Like at first glance I see it and think “of course a car would have its brand name on it” but there’s a part in the back of my brain screaming “WHERE ARE THE RINGS?!?!? THIS IS WRONG!!! BURN IT!!!”
I’m always looking up used Polestar 2’s after having one as a rental. Damn things are down to $20k now! So tempting.
How is support for them with all the tariffs and banning of Chinese car software?
Dude, brand new they made no sense at all being more expensive than a Model 3 with less range and performance but used they’re hard to ignore. I got mine just a few months ago and haven’t had any issues with service yet. The car is built in China but the software is Android Automotive so I’m not sure if that counts as chinese software and of course no tariffs on used cars. Regarding the software…it’s not perfect. It’s got plenty of quirks and features but so far nothing so bad that rebooting the infotainment screen hasn’t fixed.
I also agree I got mine back in May/June of last year and haven’t really had major issues with mine. I get a weird blind spot/parking sensor error every so often but it clears it self after being turned off for a bit but I’ll get it in for service for that at some point since I got it CPO. Besides that I have had no other issues besides some software glitches that are fixed from holding the power button to let it reboot. Just got back a road trip from North West Indiana to Ocala Florida (so like 2.2k miles total) besides the range being ehhhh it was a fun road trip since I could use Tesla super chargers.
Also a note used ones for 20k is a steal especially since you can get ones with all the packs. And if you are leary on that the CPO ones can be had for like 26-30k and come with a 2 year unlimited mile warranty which is what I did. So overall I have been really happy with mine for the 6+ months I have had it.
I just took mine on a trip to Baton Rouge for Christmas and it was ok. The EA chargers at Walmart were annoying but the MB chargers at Buc-Ee’s were awesome. Honestly I just wanted to take it for the adventure but for a road trip we’d probably take the wife’s Crosstrek since it gets almost 500 miles on a tank. For my daily commute and around-town trips it’s awesome.
Yeah I would have prefered taking the finances TourX. Next time I am probably taking my FJ because there is a 81 mile jeep trail in Ocala national park I want to try. But it wasn’t terrible for me since the other half needs to go to the bathroom like every 2 hours haha and also was nice to stop the the Buc-Ee’s to grab some food. We also got routed to a super charger outside Chattanooga that was at a antique mall and she loves antique shops so the half hour or so stops I would say added more to the trips vs my normal go go go mentality.
I would have enjoyed our trip more with those stops, any of which sounds better than the Walmart in Sulpher Louisiana. We also stopped at a Walmart in Breaux Bridge which was much nicer. The chargers were off to one side of the parking lot with tons of space, for some reason the chargers in Sulpher were in the middle of the parking lot will bollards all around so all of us were stretching the cables to reach here and there and none of us were in the right parking spaces depending on where our charge ports were located. You also couldn’t pull out and spin around to get back in because the traffic was too high on that aisle. Overall not a great experience but it was part of the adventure. Google Maps also suggested we stop and charge in an infamously racist town on the TX/LA border which I found amusing. I can remember getting sh!t in that town for driving a Japanese car back in the 90s so I found it astounding that such a town would now have an EV charging station. The wife vetoed that stop though.
Yeah we had a few stops that were at a Meijer (the Midwest version of a Walmart but normally much nicer) so those stops were kind of bleh but was nice to be able to run in the store and pick up snacks or drinks. Oh and a better route planner was really helpful then relying off of Google maps. Also the Tesla app was helpful and having the membership for a month helped save a bunch of money and depending on the time of day some chargers had cheaper rates. I only stop at super chargers pretty much all the way down and up besides one EV Connect charger right near the border of GA/FL off i75 right next to a hotel that was free which was nice haha.
Haha yeah I would be concerned in a bufu racist town that used to hate imports hate to see how they treat EV’s. I am glad the hate for them seems to have been dying off and I didn’t run into any lifted truck bros that you used to see videos of all over the interwebs.
The best part of owning the P2 is that nobody knows what it is so you don’t get the EV hate.
I got the NACS adapter but neither google maps nor ABRP suggested any superchargers between here and BR and I never charge around town so I haven’t used it yet. Someday maybe.
Weird did you have it selected you have the adapter? All it really suggested for me was Tesla chargers and even when it didn’t I would look around on the Tesla app as again with the membership would get cheaper rates the EA or Ionna
I did but it also keeps asking me if I have an adapter every time I open it so maybe it’s not saving that. Anyways, I’ve got the adapter waiting in the frunk next to a tire plug kit and pump in case I ever need it.
Vidor? Jasper?
It was Vidor. I’ve got friends who have moved there since HS and they’re always saying “Vidor is different now!” but I still ain’t visiting there again.
I heard Vidor was a big KKK town, but they dragged a black guy to death up in Jasper, which is almost too grim to even think about.
Both are sadly true. Of the two I’ve heard far more racist shit come out of folks in Vidor but that could be because I grew up closer to it than Jasper. All of East Texas has pockets of that BS though, when I was in college in Nacogdoches there were talks about a KKK march in support of a local HS principal who decided to ban mixed couples from attending prom together. I planned to drive my Japanese car right through the middle of their march but the cops stopped it before it happened.
Wow. That a HS principal would do that is unfathomable. I am happy I grew up and went to college in CA. I still like it down here, but I can’t afford to buy in the areas I really like.(Mendocino; coastal San Diego)
My ex is buying a 5 BR/6 bath 4395 sq foot home on more than an acre in Beaumont for less than $500K. That’s a lot of house for the money, but she still has to live in SE Texas. And she will have to pay to heat and cool that much space and maintain a pool.
Yeah, if I sold my comfortably-sized house in Houston it wouldn’t bring enough to buy a 1br condo in San Diego. The weather is amazing out there though even if the beach is always cold.
But within 5 miles of the coast in SD, the air is almost always within my comfort range.
We lived in a ~2700 square foot home before splitting. I have moved back into my 1300 square foot condo, in Tacoma, and my utilities are about a third of hers. And I don’t have to change shirts a couple of times a day during the summer.
A friend recently picked up one of those $20k, low mileage Polestar 2s. Dual motor, 78kWhr, adjustable suspension, strange setup of staggered wheels but square tires, so the rears are stretched. Real world 20F ambient highway range of 130 miles. Woof.
I thought it drove pretty nicely, aside from the absolute deal-breaker one pedal driving, which even when “off” doesn’t move the car from a stop for the first half of the travel to the floor.
At $20k I’d still say it’s a steal, pending an insurance quote.
Funny thing is I love the one pedal driving I didn’t think I would get used to it but I picked it up right away and would not drive without it now. Also the Adaptive cruise control is so much nice then what I have delt with in ICE vehicles.
Aside from the dead pedal at launch, I couldn’t accept the way that every time you lift off the throttle, the vehicle would back the torque out to something close to neutral, then after a moment ramp the torque down into negative for regen well after you had finished moving your foot. I was constantly moving my foot, waiting for the vehicle to catch up, then adjusting my foot position again after the vehicle revealed that the torque I requested 1-2 seconds ago wasn’t what I thought it was.
Hmmm I have never really experienced that but wonder if that is due to the performance update since it remaps the pedal?
Just a note that the pedal feel is totally fixed if you get the optional performance software update. Much more linear, while still maintaining useful controlability in the low power zone for parallel parking on the steep hills here in Seattle. At 20k, assuming you’re not doing long (150+ mile) drives super regularly, it’s a steal. Even more so if you have a home charger. We are running to Portland semi-regularly, so about 180 miles, and are depending totally on public chargers, and I still love the thing.
He did mention that he was considering the performance upgrade. I’ll have to mention that to him. I don’t think it bothered him as much as me, but it might put it over the top. He just drives one of his gas cars if he needs to go farther.
I looked at Polestar 2’s for a while, they are really cheap. The deal breaker for me is their service center. I live in the Denver metro area and there is exactly one Polestar service center in the state of Colorado–in Littleton which is a crazy drive. I also looked at the complaints on Reddit about Polestar service and decided to stay away.
Yeah, this is from Audi’s new joint EV brand, AUDI. Not confusing at all.
It’s ironic to me that the biggest drawback of Polstar vehicles is the terrible gimmicky interior design ergonomics. Perhaps that’s why they moved him out.
Even Volvo has leaned into this crap to the extent that it undermines their safety branding.
The interior could be better. The center console situation is…unfortunate. They could have moved the funky decorative shifter up to the column and opened up more space for a 2nd cup holder. The placement of the pause/play button is annoying too, I unintentionally hit it way too often.
I think the placement of the pause/play button is fine, but they shouldn’t have used a capacitive switch. I’m still holding out hope that I’ll be able to get the wiring diagrams and, with some playing around with a multimeter, maybe swap them out for a proper switch that offers much better feedback. I think a bigger issue is the hazard switch is genuinely impossible to tell you’ve pushed it, the feedback is just nonexistent.
Lemme know if you figure that out!
Oh man, I had no idea they were this cheap. There is a local 22 for 25K with a 6 year warranty and 2 years of service. It’s VERY tempting. The range is fine for 99% of my use cases.
Do it! Especially if it has all the packs (Plus, Pilot, Performance).
And there is a performance update you can get that gives a bit more power and remaps the pedal a bit (mine came with it which is nice)
Yep, if you don’t want the gold seatbelts and brake calipers you can just spring for the software update to get the same HP as the Performance pack. I’m still clinging onto my boy racer past so I held out for the gold seatbelts and brakes 🙂
Plus the gold seatbelts make everybody super happy! All the non-car people I know love them, they’re just irresistably cheery lol. Brightens up what is otherwise a pretty meh grey interior.
“In the United States, our elected officials are concerned about car prices being too high.”
You got a source for elected officials actually giving a hoot and doing something about affordability?
Ted “Cancún” Cruz is currently trying to haul all of the auto CEOs into congress for some political theater about car affordability. It’s currently postponed after Farley declined to attend because Cruz scheduled the hearing on *checks notes* the same day as the Detroit Auto Show.
https://www.politico.com/live-updates/2026/01/05/congress/big-automaker-hearing-postponed-after-ford-ceo-refuses-to-show-00711415
Nothing like a little performative caring from the guy who somehow still thinks he has a shot in 2028.
Ted came ->| |<- this close to losing his seat to Beto “are you kidding me?” O’Rourke a few years ago but I can’t blame the guy for being an optimist.
Thanks, from Beto O’ Kitty
You had my vote 😉
Wish I had your optimism. It’s Texas so all the voters do is “If letter next to name = R, then Vote”
I know it seems that way but Texas is split much closer to 50/50. The Rs have really only won the state by a few percentage points for the past couple of decades. Like the rest of the country in the metropolitan areas the Ds typically hold most of the local offices. Almost all of our large cities have D mayors though admittedly our Ds are more right-leaning than the average. I’m not saying that I don’t see Trump stickers every day on my way to work but from my personal experience I hear plenty of ppl bitching about Trump and Cruz and Abbott in this state, myself included. Cruz has only just barely won his last 2 elections, that R after his name isn’t a guaranty that he holds his position.
i was actually kind of proud when Jefferson County elected and then re-elected a black Democratic woman as sheriff. Although there was a difference between results in Beaumont vs Port Arthur. I really disliked the unholy trinity while I lived there. Oh, and AG Paxton.
The few times we’ve been back to PA over the past decade it’s been almost completely empty, especially downtown, it’s weird seeing it like that after how busy it was in the 80s.
The first time I was in the Triangle was in 2000 for business and I thought it was one of the worst parts of the US I had ever been in. In 2014, I met someone from there while I was on business and she was on vacation in LA. When I asked where she was from and she replied Beaumont, my heart sank a bit. Nonetheless, we married in 2016, and I then left (not my choice) in late 2022.
Beaumont had gotten a bit nicer (more interesting restaurants and a great H-E-B) in the interim and we lived in a very nice home in a very nice part of town. And I made some good friends while I was there.
I don’t miss the weather, but I still miss my ex, a bit. But she was or became an alcoholic and made three half-assed suicide attempts while I was with her, and I didn’t need the drama. Within seven months of our divorce, she remarried some shlub who made a third of what I did and has twin teens they take care of every other week. He has since quit his job. But I am guessing he’s happy to have a sugar mama.
The only reason I might ever set foot there again is for friends’ funerals.
I’ve been to worse parts of America than the GT, my last job sent me to Cleveland for 4 mos during winter.
I lived in Cleveland for 2.5 years and had a good time there, for the most part. Great restaurants in all the old ethnic neighborhoods. I won an Emmy as a news photographer shooting a 7-alarm fire at an old woolen mill back in 1993.
The winter could be brutal, but not Buffalo/Rochester brutal. We did live on the eastside and did get some lake effect snow, but not like they do back in W NY. I saw -20F one morning, but it was sunny and dead calm. I also saw -20F in Winnipeg during a blizzard, so windchill. Even the locals were complaining, so I didn’t feel like a wuss for being uncomfortable.
I was in Euclid/Mentor and I complained almost nonstop the entire 4 mos I was there. The coldest I experienced was -12F and I would have been crying except for my eyes instantly freezing over. I came back to Texas that summer and didn’t complain about the heat once that year.
You can always put on another layer of clothes. Sometimes, you can’t get naked enough for Texas heat and humidity.
Yeah but I grew up in this soup so it’s what I’m used to.
I’m old enough to remember Congress hauling Apple in to explain why they didn’t pay enough in taxes and everyone just spent their time glazing Tim Apple on how much they love their phone.
And asking him questions about Facebook…man we need age limits in DC.
I accidently cutoff a Waymo in LA a few weeks ago and you know what it did? It slowed down and gave me space. What it didn’t do is give me the bird, tailgate me, or pull next to me and pop a couple of rounds off. The robots are much better than we are.
I’ve found that Canadians do this too, it was a weird experience coming from Houston traffic.
Solution: replace AV’s with Canadians
This is a solution I could support, unfortunately with our current DHS situation I can see some problems with the plan.
THE’RE TAKING OUR JOBS!!!
Blame Canada, Blame Canada, they’re not even a real country anyway…
Gotta wait until they become our 51st state, or maybe 52nd after Greenland. I wonder what the people in Puerto Rico think of all this.
To be fair, the popping a couple rounds off in traffic isn’t really an issue in most countries, robotaxi or not.
Ala, not a non-zero chance in LA traffic at least.
No, it ran you license plate through all sorts of databases, learned your identity, and is probably creating some system “error” that is going to get you audited by the IRS and put on the no-fly list.
That’s all coming in the next software update, as the system learns from other drivers about how to react.
Tweedy is great. I took a 6-hour road trip to catch Wilco at the St. Augustine Ampitheatre with Waxahatchee last year and it was well worth the drive. Summerteeth is an “anytime” album for me, right up there with Decemberists’ “The Crane Wife” and Belle and Sebastian’s “If You’re Feeling Sinister”.
I’d be open to a robotaxi as long as it didn’t attempt to engage me in conversation. That would be the main advantage for me over the human-driven kind.
I’d be curious in the breakdown of severity of accidents from robotaxis vs. humans. If a drunk driver killing a few people is counted the same as a minor fender bender, then the metrics aren’t useful.
I don’t have much if any personal interest in robotaxis, but I’d take one any day over some of the borderline suicidal taxi drivers I’ve ridden with. I also expect humans to continue to be worse and worse at driving, and computers to get better, so I would expect there to be a pretty significant gap in the future favoring the computers.
This is a great point. Even at this current beta stage, I’m willing to bet that the GM/Waymo/Tesla/whoever else autopilots are far less likely to cause accidents that result in death or injury than the meat-pilot systems.
I am a commercialy rated pilot, and am freely willing to admit that the autopilots on the aircraft I fly are far better at this whole “flying” thing than myself. Just about the only things they can’t do is select a destination, refuel the airplane, or pay the bill at the FBO.
“Why Is Everyone So Sure Robotaxis Will Actually Make Roads Safer?”
Because they are already safer. And they have a huge potential for future improvement while human drivers, as terrible as they can be, are as good as they’re gonna get.
It doesn’t help that the media overhypes every single mishap of AI drivers while similar mishaps caused by human drivers are so common as to be unremarkable. Humans run over beloved neighborhood cats every single day, sometimes even on purpose and that NEVER makes the news. When a pedestrian gets dragged 20′ by a Waymo because it sensed a problem and pulled over in the shortest, safest possible manner it was absolutely lambasted while the human in the Altima who not only hit that same pedestrian so hard she was flung under the Waymo but also fled the scene was almost ignored. Why? Because humans hit and run every damn day. It’s not newsworthy.
Cruise Automation, once a promising self driving startup now just another victim of Big Altima Energy.
Oops, you’re right! It was a Cruse, not a Waymo. My bad 🙁
American drivers are nowhere near as good as they could be. Or even should be. There is too much of the “driving is a right” attitude in this idiotic country.
Not just “driving is a right!” but also “the road is for ME!” and “safety is YOUR problem!”
Right on, Brother.
Ultimately, it’s just another aspect of the “I’ve got mine, fuck you” attitude that permeates this country.
We don’t all have this attitude. Unfortunately those that do are more than the critical mass it needs to thrive.
I like to think I don’t, but agree, too many do.
I would trust Robotaxi’s if all vehicles on the road were Robocars and they talked to each other. Once you throw humans and Robocars mixed together, that’s a whole other ball game. People are unpredictable and sometimes stupid. The developers of these systems are having enough trouble dealing with known edge cases, much less the Big Altima Energy drivers among us.
I’d trust them even less.
The more interconnected things are, the higher the calamity when those systems are inevitably breached.
Anecdote from one of our bus vendors. As more of our systems are able to be overridden by computer control on transit buses, they became concerned with someone getting remote control access of the vehicle.
So they hired a bunch of whitehats to come try and break into the bus. While they didn’t gain access to the powertrain control, they DID manage to get backdoor access to the Municipal Government’s servers. Because the buses are all connected for telemetry purposes.
Any system can be broken. The more pluribus it gets, the worse the fail mode.
Hell, folks learned they could create a Waymo traffic jam by mass hailing rides on a long dead-end street.
People’s biggest weakness is also their strength from that perspective. We’re all decentralized meat computers.
We’re all decentralized meat computers.
All loaded with differently faulty software, chock full of viruses, worms and malware. Many refusing anti-virus updates and suffering from failing hardware.
We are self-replicating automations.
Soon enough the robots will be too.
Yeah and maybe the techbros in robot form as well.
They’ll have to be if they ever want to live on Mars.
Yup, and cannot be compromised en masse.
It’s been at least 10 years that we’ve known communication between vehicles (V2V) and to infrastructure (lights and such) was the key to autonomous driving. If we started building it into cars then we’d have most cars on the road with those systems in place now. Systems that could tell your non-autonomous car that the light is red if you’re distracted, or could brake your car because the autonomous car in front of you is panic braking. Instead we have imperfect brake assist and cars that can’t drive themselves.
V2V also allows for automated cars to travel nearly on top of each other because they can brake an accelerate as one – great for traffic and even better for aerodynamics and fuel savings.
Anyway. Didn’t happen and probably not going to happen. We’ll just let cars drive around with camera-only systems and run into firetrucks.
Now that Waymo have come South of SF (and can use the Freeway!), they are a great option. Efficient, fast enough and roughly the same price as a Uber. And as others have noted, I’d rather roll the dice on their automation than some of the crazy ride share drivers Ive had.
In major cities with a dependance on taxis, I’ve had good like with ride share drivers.
Around here, it seems like people think to themselves “what do I hate doing and more importantly am also really bad at?” as the criteria to start driving for Uber/Lyft.
My problem with Robotaxis is that they are NOT all created equal. Waymo and the others with wide fused sensor suites and LiDAR I would trust so much more than a Cybercab or any other Tesla vision-only cab. One has nearly a half dozen different types of technology blended together to cut through all ranges of visibility, to know what is actually around it, and what speeds things are going relative to it. The other is a Tesla with a handful of cameras strapped to it and a computer doing a shit ton of guess work based on what it thinks is in the image.
You do the math, one is imperfect and can be confused by edge cases, but is geared towards safety and knows what size things are, where they are headed, and can see through rain, fog and snow. The other is a Tesla that can be tricked with a painted wall. This is not shared with any other Robotaxi service I am aware of, and is shared amongst every single Tesla being manufactured or planned.
This is the right take. We had massive the rains the last week, and the Waymos appeared to be unaffected. My Model 3, however, (without FSD) was braking at every leaf in the road is seemed…
It’s a very very real problem and one that makes me so furious. Elon has taken an extremely reductionist argument towards autonomy “We only have to cameras as people and do fine” and refused to deviate from vision only as the future. It’s entirely analogous to the Cybertruck failures, missing new Roadster, obsession with Optimus robots and Ai, and more. Elon runs things as he does, and refuses to move on what he believes in.
That worked great to get the Model S into production sure, but it also hindered the Model X with it’s gullwing doors, and is now hurting the viability of the company. It’s an utter mess, and the bill WILL come due, but it’s a complete guess as to when and what the fallout will be.
There needs to be regulation of this tech, with minimum standards like LiDAR being required and cross-platform communication. We manage to keep thousands of aircraft from crashing into each other, we can do it with robot cars, too.
The biggest irony about that is around 8 years ago the concepts of V2X was all the rage amongst OEMs, Vehicle to Vehicle, to Infrastructure, to everything. Smart infrastructure that could tell cars “hey you’ve got 25 seconds on this red light” and cars wirelessly communicating speed and other data. It likely all fell apart due to cost, as building it all out would have been extremely expensive. It would be nice to see that start back up for Autonomous vehicles, but without regulation it wont happen.
Also regulation needs to be laid out for failure modes and handling of edge cases. When a Waymo server loses power, the cars shouldn’t become roadblocks. When a Tesla loses it’s ability to see in extreme weather, it needs to pull safely to the side. But until that is all regulated and operational licenses and conditions are set, it’ll be the wild west.
I still have a lot of hope for V2X. It won’t happen overnight but added slowly to the infrastructure as the technology matures.
“Smart infrastructure that could tell cars “hey you’ve got 25 seconds on this red light”
Sweden and other places kinda have this. The yellow light comes in conjunction with the red on to let drivers know the light is about to turn green.
Even way back in 1980 Sweden also had a great system that showed a digital display of the speed you needed to maintain to catch the next green. Unfortunately that system was abandoned as it was at the time incompatible with adaptive timing.
The good news is its being reintroduced as Green Light Optimal Speed Advisory (GLOSA):
https://www.nordicway.net/demonstrationsites/information-on-time-to-green-signalized-intersections
https://www.mdpi.com/2071-1050/17/19/8855
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s13762-025-06901-8
Its even being tested here in the US:
https://www.osti.gov/biblio/1922212
This would be a good subject for the Autopian to cover.
Given the amount of required maintenance, training, inspections, and step-checks that are involved with aviation, this comparison never works.
Imagine if every car accident had an FAA level investigation. Insanity.
If we did, we might not have 30-40K people a year dying in car-related crashes.
Because there would be less than 30-40k people who could afford to drive in that nightmare scenario. Also, compare driving fatality rate to civil (not commercial) aviation fatality rate by distance travelled and let me know if you modify your conclusions.
Good.
Civil aviation suffers from much the same issues as driving.
Imagine if every driver had FAA approved pilot level training.
There’d suddenly be a LOT more public transit.
One can dream.
I’m just hoping Ontario’s high speed rail comes to fruition. The timeline aligns with when I retire. Living in one of the cities on the line, I can’t wait to be able to easily spend a weekend in the cities on either end.
Hope you have more luck with that than we did here in California.
The other is a Tesla that can be tricked with a painted wall
As can humans.
Fair point! However, AVs with a full sensor suite cannot be, which was more my point. Basically if we are trusting AVs to be actually safer and better than humans, they need to actually be more capable of detecting things than Humans can be, while Tesla’s are generally worse than Humans due to not even having stereoscopic vision.
Better would be V2X communication. Data from other cars and the road itself containing completely different views could easily identify hazards hidden to either human eyes or a car’s camera.
If I was in Las Vegas and a Zoox came along, I might give it a shot, given that it’s almost a perfect use case for an automated taxi. To be honest though getting around in regular taxis in Las Vegas work so well I don’t know what the advantage would be.
TBQ: Absolutely and to anyone who does it will complete a paradigm shift in the way you view the future of transportation (Disclosure: Bay Area resident, but transplant from Detroit). I will never pick a non-Waymo again when in the city and they’re expanding to the entire bay middle of this year. There’s an entire product though, it’s the seamlessness, the smoothness, the lack of a random driver you don’t want to talk to or have conversation in front of necessarily, etc. It seems that when given the choice riders overwhelmingly select Waymo once they’ve begun to use it. It’s also amazing how rapidly you trust the system and stop paying attention. I don’t know the ultimate result (do AV’s primarily replace cabs, trucks, etc. but for the sake of cost we continue to drive ourselves? Is there a pushback against the extra miles being driven? I think it’s a fool’s errand to think any of us have the answer), but I can say a colleague of mine who is very much into car is smitten with V14 FSD and for use day to day (but price is still too high).
For the question itself though, I would wager that the gig economy driver’s days are numbered. Though I won’t yet say the operating entity (Uber or Lyft) are going away themselves.
It will be safer like all of the following advances; The seat belt, the 3rd brake light, and ABS, where human interaction will undo all of the benefits by thinking this will save them, so that they can drive worse
I haven’t even ever taken a normal taxi. I’ve done Uber only a handful of times.
I do have a Supercruise trial on our Bolt EUV and that convinced me to buy a Comma 4 for my truck (it will probably be several weeks before I get it). But Supercruise sold me enough on the freeway driving that I want something to take over for the long stretches of interstate that I do pulling our camper in the summers. The Comma will do Level 2 driving in town and I’m sure I’ll try it, but what I really want it for is the long, boring drives or the times spent sitting in bumper to bumper traffic.
Walkable cities? Efficient public transit?
No. Forget that.
Let’s, instead, spend billions on 3-tonne automated vehicles that will roam the streets without human intervention. Because cars.
What could possibly go wrong?
Nope. No Johnny Cab for me.
I go back and forth on self driving cars.
I work in IT, so I know full well how quickly a computer can fuck things up, but equally I see some absolute idiots on the roads.
In conclusion: computers can be terrible at driving. Also, humans can be terrible at driving.
I guess as my job involves fixing computers, I should probably root for the terrible computers and continued employment.
As a lawyer in the automotive industry my current take is that we should pick the option that minimizes overall risk. BUT if that option is self-driving cars, then there needs to be a bright line assignment of liability to the manufacturers. US corporations are currently so shielded from liability that switching to self-driving, even if safer, would probably leave a lot of hurt people completely screwed. Sorry to get political, but I think we have shifted enough costs and risk from individual companies to society in the past few decades.
I guess I should also root for terrible computers and continued employment …
In America, at least, it feels that we are unlikely to see any change to have more corporate responsibility – at least in the near future (and, worse, is likely a projection of that position onto other countries).
Oh, I 100% agree with you. I guess I should have added “and that will likely never happen.”
I’m a lawyer too, but not in automotive, and the liability thing i agree is a real problem. Not just with AV cars, but with all AI. AI will crash into things by accident and AI will definitely be used to defraud people on purpose. We have basically NO rules in place to deal with this, and we should.
Waymo just came to my little city, to test out their ability in winter conditions. Between ice and, well, ICE, I’m a little concerned about being a lab rat.
The door to door capability and on demand convenience of taxis means they will always have a place. Not to mention I don’t want to share a subway car or bus with other people if I can help it. That goes double if I have my small kids with me.
I might not take a robotaxi up Pikes Peak, but in a city, yeah why not? It’s not as if human taxi drivers blow me away with their safe driving prowess.
The sh*t I’ve seen taxi drivers do in Rome would be 100% impossible to replicate with any level of autonomy or LLM. I’d imagine most cities in India and Southeast Asia are even more extreme.
Not just Taxis, but it’s the creativity of human intervention in those scenarios.
I worry about the much more mixed traffic (non-car) that is at far higher risk than having a cage around them.
Aw man, I love taking my kids on public transport. We live in a small town, so when we visit a city, I want them to be exposed to some diversity of humanity. Even if some of it is unpleasant. Plus kids LOVE trains and buses.
We took them to NYC this past summer and rode both a commuter train and the subway.
If I lived there, I assume I’d feel differently, but the added stress of trying to figure out which train was where, making sure everyone got through the pay gates, making sure everyone got on the train, making sure no one wandered away at any point, plus keeping an eye on the erratic and strange folks on the train was a mental load I didn’t enjoy, even if the kids had fun.
Yeah, the NYC system is way better if you know what you’re doing, which is something I’d love to see NYC correct. Taking the tube in London, I have way fewer concerns, and it’s slightly easier to navigate with a kid. I don’t think the learning curve in NYC is insurmountably steep, but it’s a little higher than it should be. Even in France with a two-year-old and not speaking the language, it was probably easier than a newcomer trying to get to Brooklyn.
The fact that the subway is so usable because it goes to so many places people in the city want to go makes it a much higher learning curve. It is quite complicated and there’s not much of a chance of learning it all if you’re only there a short while.
I remember reading a book about the subway before my first trip there (back in 2000 before everything was on the internets) and that helped but damn that is complicated.
The biggest strength is a weakness of sorts.
NY always seems to take a little too much pride in making things like the subway seem more complicated and dangerous than they really are.
Granted that might be because they’d prefer tourists just stay above grade and out of the way.
We’ve done mass transit in London, Rome, Madrid, Barcelona, and Venice with our two kids aged 8-15 over the past few years.
Venice is an absolute nightmare (transit AND everything else, mostly due to the overtourism), but all the rest were very manageable if you have a basic understanding of the map. And now Google Maps will even show real-time arrivals/delays/travel times on a lot of subways and buses, which is a total gamechanger. I prefer to know the map, but the web adds a nice layer of info to it.
I’m MUCH more reluctant on most US mass transit systems because most of them are just a lot sketchier. I’m not saying Europe is great, but it’s far more normalized there…and not just a place for mentally ill people to ride all day for no reason.
About 10% more/clearer signage and maps, and about 10% more dedicated removal of the worst people who have nothing better to do than bother and harass others would go a long way.
That is the key to fixing a lot of things, usually the few % screwing up the rest of ______ (fill in the blank).
I don’t think I’d take a robotaxi except maybe on low-speed surface streets in an established market (like SF).
I may be a weirdo or an outlier, but I actually enjoy chatting with Uber drivers and taxistas. Occasionally it’s clear they don’t feel the same way, so I’ll read the room and shut up. But I value that fabric of social interaction after a decade or two of the world trying to eliminate it. I also always tip Ubers, something I only recently learned puts me in the top 10% of riders who tip at all. To be clear, I’m pretty strongly against tipping culture getting out of hand for most wage-paying positions, but IMO the way those drivers have gotten raw deals over the years, that’s a firm exception for me.
I also choose actual checkout lines over self-checkout (if I’m not in a hurry).
Roy Wood Jr’s latest comedy special made a pretty strong insight about how retail trends actually tend to dictate broader social culture. I tend to agree, and while customer service is down and prices are up, we as humans can still try to fill a scoial gap to maybe make the world a better place in some small way (and Wood goes on to joke about simple politeness helping stop gun violence, too…)
I don’t think you are weird – I think you are normal and the rest who just want to have their nose in a screen all the time and exclude human contact are the weirdos. But I grew up before screens were a thing.
I have had some great conversations with cab drivers, bus drivers, and even random seatmates on airplanes. I am NOT in any way a particularly outgoing person, but if someone starts a conversation I am happy to participate.
I also always tip cab/uber drivers. Though I get why people don’t as part of the appeal of it was that originally they didn’t allow tipping and made a point of it not being necessary. Then made an about-face on that.
TBQ: I have not ridden in a robotaxi. I confess up until very recently I was highly apprehensive of idea, but after a few family members used one, my curiosity is currently surpassing my caution.
The chief designer of Volvo making his way back to that position is really great news. Volvo exterior designs are far-and-away the best on the market right now. Hopefully that trend will continue.
I have not taken a robotaxi, and I would not…for a few years. We were in San Francisco recently, and seeing them everywhere was unnerving, at best. Felt like I was in The Birds.
I’ve always wondered if murders and other crimes committed on public transportation count against the safety record of that method of public transport