Some questions are impossible to answer. Where did we come from? What’s the meaning of life? What happens after we die? Does anyone who owns a plug-in hybrid vehicle actually charge their car?
While most of those questions have baffled philosophers for centuries, that last one has really only bothered people in the past three to four years. The U.S. government has no reporting requirements when it comes to PHEV charging usage, and many automakers choose not to disclose the data. Some claim not to track it at all. So gathering any real knowledge on the subject is tough—unless you live in Europe.
A study published last year by the European Commission examined the fuel consumption of roughly 600,000 vehicles in Europe throughout 2021, which included gasoline-, diesel-, and hybrid-powered vehicles. The organization was able to do this because every car built after December 2020 has been required to have an on-board fuel consumption monitoring (OBFCM) device installed by the manufacturer. This device, as you’ve probably guessed, monitors real-world fuel consumption and relays that info back to the manufacturers, whether remotely or during routine dealership service.
The Reality Of Plug-Ins
The results painted a picture many suspected: Drivers of plug-in hybrids weren’t charging often enough to take advantage of their electric propulsion. The study found that plug-ins were consuming about 3.5 times more fuel than what was predicted via Europe’s Worldwide harmonized Light vehicles Test Procedure (WLTP) values, the European equivalent of our EPA numbers. The chart below gives you a sense of what the real-world versus WLTP numbers should be, showing the same test results for normal gas- and diesel-powered cars.
In its analysis, the European Commission calls out the obvious: People just weren’t charging as much as the WLTP numbers expected them to:
The analysis of the real-world data confirms that the real-world gap for plug-in hybrids is significantly higher than for conventional vehicles. A major reason for such a discrepancy is the mismatch between the utility factor used during type-approval and the actual vehicle charging and driving patterns.
Nailing down these figures for American plug-in fuel economy is tougher because there is no such standardized tracking method, and no government entity publishes data from manufacturers. So I reached out to every automaker that currently sells a PHEV in America in search of answers. Specifically, I wanted to know whether their buyers actually charge their vehicle via the charging port, or if they just treat it as a gas car without ever stopping to top up on electrons.
Most Automakers Didn’t Want To Share
An Audi spokesperson told me the company doesn’t track the data. Bentley told me it was “not able to support these questions,” while Land Rover said “we do not have this level of information to share.” Mitsubishi and Volvo said they’re looking into whether they can provide any data. Ford declined to comment. Stellantis told me it doesn’t share customer usage and behavior data. Ferrari did not respond to my inquiry. Not a great start.
BMW sent over some interesting data, though. While the company didn’t specify the percentage of PHEV owners who charge their cars versus those who don’t, the numbers suggest most people are actually using the charging port. From a spokesperson:
-
BMW PHEV customers charge very frequently: 15% charge at least once per day, 52% at least 2-4 times per week.
-
On average across all our PHEV customers we do see that they charge 0.7x per day.
-
>95% of all PHEV charging sessions are non-public (=home)
Kia sent over even more data. The company recently surveyed nearly 1000 EV and PHEV owners to find out more about its customers’ charging habits. Here’s what it found:
At-Home Charging:
97% of Kia PHEV and EV, owners charge predominantly at home. A majority of Kia EV owners have Level 2 chargers, while the majority of Kia PHEV Owners use Level 1 (wall outlet) at home. On-average, PHEV owners typically charge for 6.5 hours and the EV owners typically charge for 6.6 hours.
At-Work and Public Charging:
Of the Kia EV and PHEV owners, only 5% of PHEV owners and 8% of EV owners charge their vehicles at work. Roughly 6% of PHEV owners and 16% of EV owners routinely use public chargers. Our engineers have concluded that the large majority of these owners live in areas that do not provide at-home charging, such as an apartment complex or a home that does not have Level 2 charging.
At-Home vs At-Work Charging:
When looking at the ratio of at-home vs public and at-work charging, close to 80% of EV charging is done at home, and that number is close to 90% for PHEV owners.
That bit about PHEV owners using a wall charger makes a lot of sense, and seems to line up with BMW’s data. Most plug-in hybrids have relatively small batteries, which means they don’t need Level 2 chargers to go from empty to full overnight. The point about just 6% of PHEV owners using public chargers isn’t a surprise, either. There’s no reason to stop for a juice-up on your tiny battery when you have a whole gas engine as a backup to get you home. So the people hitting public chargers just for their PHEV likely have no other place to juice up.
A Kia representative went on to tell me that 92.8% of PHEV owners do charge their vehicles, which means 7.2% do not. This is survey data, so it’s not as reliable as direct monitoring, but it’s better than nothing.
Hyundai’s PHEV owners charge even more, according to the company. It took a survey that sampled the charging habits of 311 PHEV owners, which, according to a representative, were mostly Tucson PHEV drivers. Here’s what it found:
Nearly everyone (99%) stated they charge their vehicles. A full half charge once or more per day, while nearly 40% charge several times a week. During charging sessions nearly all owners are charging their PHEVs back to full charge.
-
-
71% of PHEV’s with longer commutes (30+ miles) stated they charge once a day or more, suggesting they are trying to take as much advantage of their time in EV mode as possible.
-
PHEV owners with shorter commutes (under 20 miles) reported less frequent daily charging and more likely weekly charging.
-
What Does It All Mean?
The Hyundai data, combined with those Kia figures and BMW’s statistics, mean we’re on a path to finding out whether most people actually charge their PHEVs. But without data from bigger brands like Stellantis, Volvo, Ford, and Audi, it’s impossible to give a definitive answer. Buyers of different brands have different habits, so what’s true for Hyundai might not be true for brands like Jeep or Alfa Romeo. Still, the results are telling. There’s a lot of speculation that most PHEV drivers never charge their vehicles, but that doesn’t seem to be the case for BMW, Kia, and Hyundai drivers.
Logically, you’d think people would take advantage of their car’s battery propulsion whenever possible. Why pay extra for the plug-in hybrid powertrain if you’re not going to use it? That’s doubly true if you have access to a garage or a driveway with a wall plug. All you have to do is pop in the charger when you get home every day. And if you’re buying a PHEV, that’s probably your plan from the start.
With PHEVs becoming more numerous, I hope data like this will become more readily available. From what these numbers suggest, people might actually be catching on.
[Ed Note: The important thing, here, is not how many times someone charges, or what percentage of owners charge at all — what matters is the percentage of total miles traveled that are done in electric mode vs ICE mode. Per-mileage traveled is key. One of the big challenges with PHEVs is that automakers are rewarded credits by governments based on an assumed usage, and if that usage in the real world is actually more ICE than was assumed, then PHEVs can begin to seem like a workaround for automakers who don’t want to invest in cleaner technology — a workaround that doesn’t yield the environmental benefits lawmakers deem necessary to keep Americans/the earth healthy. It’s also worth noting that European drivers are very different than American drivers, and small-car drivers are much different than pickup truck drivers (a pickup truck driver, for example, might have more of an incentive to plug in for their commute due to their poor ICE fuel economy). In addition, it’s worth noting that PHEVs in the U.S. are simply not good enough, and data suggests that if they improve (i.e. they offer more of an EV range, like EREVs should) then we’ll likely see more miles traveled using EV propulsion than ICE propulsion. Check out reporting by John Voelcker on this topic. Though he and I disagree on the environmental value of EREVs (I think they’ll be a huge boon for many reasons enumerated here), he’s sharp and has spent far too many hours looking into this very topic. -DT].
Top graphic images: Hyundai
Support our mission of championing car culture by becoming an Official Autopian Member.
My wifes 4xe is charged at home when needed, and we recently installed a pair of 240 outlets to get a level 2 charger charger (why 2? Well, why buy one when you can have 2 for only twice the price?). She doesnt charge at work because once charged, they give you 45min to move your car before ticketing. Which is a 10min walk from the office, and she gets a 15min break. Sure that maths.
Has she tried rollerskating?
I plug in our Wrangler 4xe as often as I can, which means most weekends I don’t use any gas. It doesn’t have enough range to get to and from work on my regular commute, but if I am going somewhere where there is a level 2 charger somewhere nearby, I’ll try and plan around it.
It was disappointing the other night when the brewery with a charger was closed for a private event, so I had to go down the road a bit to a different one.
I look at it as, I paid for that extra battery, I’m going to use it as much as I can.
I just bought a Wrangler 4xe because where I am at, they are selling at a discount because the locals just want a real gas ‘mo-turr’.
I plug it in nightly and use it all because what little utility out of it means I’m not burning gasoline. Not that gas is expensive, blah blah. It’s just that for the first time, I am able to propel a vehicle for a distance without having to pollute, and it makes me feel good.
That said, it’s fairly useless. 25 miles on a charge. If you live in a semi-rural area, that’s one trip out and back. I can see why the billybobs around here don’t even bother
I see the L2 chargers at my gym being used by PHEV’s quite often. BMW and Toyota seem to predominate. All brands charge there.
In Euope, more people live an apartments are can’t home-charge. So that is not really that surprising.
I guess I get the use case for not charging at home if it’s a company car with a gas card. But I’m retired, so everything is on me. And electricity is relatively cheap, and gas is relatively expensive where I live.
I have contemplated getting a PHEV and charging it at home because most of my trips around here are 10 miles or less. But I also want the ability to go 700+ miles to attend to family matters monthly, two states away (WA >-< CA) without having to charge along the way. So, a pure BEV is a non-starter.
Around town, my car gets pretty sad fuel economy. But on the freeway, it’s upper 30s to 40+ mpg, depending on which way the wind is blowing. Yes. It does make a difference between a 10-mph tailwind and a 10-mph headwind. And sometimes, the wind is blowing significantly harder.
OTH, my car is paid off. It’s a Honda with less than 70K miles on the clock and may outlive me. So, it’s probably all a moot point, economically. And, I like it.
Back when had company cars, I would usually get a gas card and/or a charge card plus measurement and payback of the electricity charged at home at a reasonable rate.
Sorry for using the ridiculous US units for these comments. I know the metric conversions (although British Imperial gallons still confuse me a bit). I would guess most Autopians live in the US, but I might exercise my brain a bit and do my measurements in both systems. They started teaching the metric system to us school kids in 1970 or so but gave up in the early 80s.
Taking chemistry in college only reinforced how much more logical and even elegant the metric system was than the Imperial system of, well pretty much everything.
The conversion from mpg to l/100 km requires a bit more math. And a bit different mindset.
And it’s kind of funny. When I flew a plane and had to calculate how much fuel I was going to burn it was more about how far are you planning to fly and then calculating enough to do that plus a healthy reserve for unplanned contingencies. You’re going to fly X miles/kilometers to point B. The plane cruises at Y gallons/liters per hour and it’s going to take you Z hours to get there. Then you do the math. In the end, the math works out to be the same. It’s just a different way of thinking.
The hardest part in all that is that spelling checkers here don’t like litres as a word. And I like spelling it that way. And the pronunciation of kilometers. Which might also be spelled kilometres. Can’t we all just agree on how to spell and pronounce these things?
When I was commuting for work around 30 miles, got a Fusion PHEV. I could also charge at work. Average mpg was 80-100. Plugged in twice a day back then.
5102 miles and an indicated 883 mpg with 39% fuel remaining according to bluelink on my 2023 Hyundai Tucson PHEV and more than 1 year on the same tank of 93 octane fuel definitely indicates always charging it up before driving it primarily as a commuter. Free level 2 charging at work and cheap L1 charging at home. I don’t drive it every day though. Lifetime fuel economy including before I got the vehicle is 56.7 mpg over 25k odd miles.
We also have a 2025 Ford Escape PHEV with around 3000 miles on it from new, but it’s the family car and the road tripper. It’s also frequently charged up, mostly on level 1, but it’s much more efficient in ICE/ HEV mode, getting closer to 40+ mpg on the highway vs 28 ish on the turbocharged Tucson PHEV with a depleted battery.
I like the AWD of the Hyundai, and the performance when needed, but I prefer the Ford for always asking if you want to start the engine in EV first mode and not just immediately throwing a cold engine into high speed and high load operation, plus it has a ptc heater on the coolant loop so it doesn’t always have to run the engine in the cold.
The Hyundai has no resistance heating at all and cannot even use the electric ac compressor as a heat pump. This means I either freeze in winter or I would have to fill the tank sooner.
CARB has studied this from actual car OBDII data. From memory PHEV’s use twice the amount of fuel as the EPA cycle would say and for an PHEV to drive 50% of the miles on electricity it needed to have something like 54 miles of range. They used this data to adjust PHEV requirements for Advanced Clean Car II which is why PHEVs are required to have a 50 mile EPA range to count as a ZEV.
50 mi per day is 18K per year so I’m pretty sure they are expected far more than 50% EV miles with that minimum.
Maybe they mean 50 miles per business day, for commuters.
Apparently from my research that 50mi Monroney number corresponds to a 73mi lab result in standard testing procedures. Those numbers correspond to what they really want which is 40mi on an “aggressive driving schedule” IE driving like a Californian.
That in turn is supposed to cover most people’s regular daily driving in 100% EV mode.
With nearly 40 million people in California, and perhaps 20 million drivers, what the hell is “driving like a Californian”? 20 million drivers do not all drive the same.
California is a very diverse state, with all sorts of roads, topography, climates, and so on. Making any sort of generalization about California is practically impossible.
Yet CARB developed an “Aggressive Drive Cycle” to simulate real world driving patterns and speeds in the greater LA area.
CARB is doing their job – improving air quality in the state. The LA basin used to be practically unlivable. It’s much better now, even with a much, much larger population and many more cars, trucks and industry. The rest of the state also benefits from cleaner air.
Clean air is a good thing. The oil companies like it when people think genuine progress is somehow evil.
You are falling for the same logic as the EPA test which says the average car drives 40 miles per day so an EV with a 20 mile EV range will drive 50% of the time on electricity. The problem is reality isn’t a daily average. Some days you might drive 40 miles but others you drive zero and then there are the days you drive 500 and only 4% of the miles that day are electric.
Again, this was based on actually OBDII data from PHEVs and looking at the average percentage of miles driven on electric per year.
For example for the 2016 Ford Fusion Energi PHEVs in the study drove on average just under 16,000 miles per year but only 14% of those miles were electric. It has an EPA range of 20 miles
I would love to see a link to said study. I can’t find that on CARB’s site anywhere. However if it indeed was done on a Energi that did ~16k per year then the results are simply the effect of the Clean Air Access OK program that encouraged those with the longest commutes to buy PHEVs as they stood the most to gain for that car pool access. (the question of course were those consequences intended to show PHEVs are bad, or unintended because they didn’t look at the big picture)
The best I can find on their website is that 73mi lab test/50mi Monroney numbers were set to achieve 40mi on an “aggressive driving schedule” to better simulate the way real world Californian’s drive, ie 80mph in the carpool lane with their Clean Air sticker (that they expected to extend). That is supposed to cover most’s peoples daily driving with 100% EV because the average person isn’t frequently doing 500mi days.
I’d like to provide it but I’m not finding it. I do have it downloaded to my work computer. Here is a similar CARB study done earlier which is where I pulled the Fusion PHEV data above from. I did quick math from a bar chart for the 14% above but it turns out with a closer look the actually percentage is 16% of miles are zVMT (zero emission vehicle miles). Prius Plug-In was the lowest at 4% zVMT and the Volt was the highest at 59%. The i3 Rex didn’t have zVMT but 92% of their miles were eVMT (zVMT are on trips were the engine never turned on, eVMT are at total miles where the engine is off)
Yes, the study did mention the possibility that people that buy PHEVs drive more miles and take longer trips so they chose to buy a PHEV instead of a BEV.
In this earlier study they only have a few PHEVs (Volt, Fusion, CMax, i3 REX, Prius, and Accord). The later one has a lot more and newer models.
https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/sites/default/files/2020-01/appendix_g_pev_in_use_and_charging_data_analysis_ac.pdf
Thanks for the link. You seem to be falling for CARB’s BS. That whole zVMT miles thing is CARB BS resetting the rules to fit their narrative. Never mind that the actual real world use was skewed to longer distance commuters by the Clear Air Access eligibility.
The real numbers that reflect the actual reduction of gas miles.
For the Fusion:
Mean VMT 15,076
Mean eVMT 4,776
Mean eVMT 31.7%
Medain VMT 13,897
Median eVMT 4,692
Median eVMT 33.8%
So I’d say doing ~1/3 of the miles EV with the advertised 20mi Monroney range is pretty impressive, espcially considering the total annual miles driven by those vehicles.
The Volt is about 3/4 eVMT and that is only the model years where it was rated at 38 mi of range. Though to be fair the Volt drivers didn’t rack up as many miles.
The Prius of course was the worst since it is the definition of a compliance car with an undersized motor and a tiny battery that forced engine operation with anything but the lightest foot on the throttle.
The study does do a great job of showing the diminishing returns of a larger battery in a PHEV and fallacy of the EREV.
The Fusion with a 9kwh battery does 33% eVMT. Even with drivers who tend to put on a lot of miles, skewing that percentage down.
The Volt with 16kwh is 1.75x larger yet it does 2.2x eVMT at 75%. That shows we are on the upward swing on battery size ROI. Though skewed slightly upward because of the difference in annual miles between the two models.
The i3 has a 60kwh battery, 3.75x that of the Volt 6.67 x the Fusion, but the eVMT is only 1.25x and 2.85X respectively. That number is also heavily skewed by the i3 drivers even lower annual miles driven.
We plug in our CX-90 at home every night. The level 2 charger we installed for our old Leaf handily recharges the Mazda in just a few hours. Outside of the house, we’ve only plugged it in at free public charging stations when convenient, but it’s really not worth paying for level 2 charging.
Even with a dead EV battery, the CX-90 returns a pretty impressive 40mpg just running off the gas engine. Not bad for a 7-seat SUV. Combined, we typically see about 70mpg.
For Americans who have garages, I’m surprised to see that people more people plug in 2-4 times a week than almost every day. I assumed that people would have the car plugged in nearly anytime it was in the garage no matter the charge, which is what I do; is this indicating that people actually wait until they hit low battery to plug in, or do they just not drive their vehicle more than 4 times a week?
My guess is, the charge occurs after being driven home, then sits for a day, and out it goes the next day,
There certainly are times when we don’t use our PHEV more than 4 days in a week, but when it does get used it gets plugged in and charged to 80% every time we get home.
With our XC40 EV we have a self-imposed high and low battery charge thresholds to maximize battery health. The car is always in between 30% and 80% charge. We don’t charge every day because it takes a few days to get from 80 to 30.
If you don’t need to charge, why would you?
It really depends on what “need” means. If you drive anywhere you used some amount of charge.
For me, at least 50% of my trips consume a full charge, so even if I used 10% topping that up is important to me. Is not unusual to have the engine kick on, coming up the hill with my house in sight.
It really ends up being weather dependent. If it’s nice and the top is off and HVAC is off I make it, but if the temperature is the same but it’s raining and I’m running AC I don’t.
I don’t have a PHEV but I do have an EV. I don’t plug in until I’m at 40% unless I know I’m going to need more charge the next day. The reason is because I did charge efficiency studies and found that topping off that last 20% and especially 10% is VERY inefficient. As much as 40% of the power wasted in the winter time when topping off on 120V.
I didn’t end up getting a PHEV because the cost differential for a regular hybrid didn’t math with my cost of electricity vs fuel, but to use myself (and potentially all of my coworkers) as example:
Person who WFH and mid-week driving is pretty much kid dropoff and kid pickup. Could go all electric M-F and only need to charge on the weekend.
In California, I don’t think this use case is rare. Not the majority, sure, but a decent chunk.
As others have said you need to stop using that highly biased euro study that only really pointed out that the gov’t scheme wasn’t really thought out and no one looked at the big picture. 1. they incentivized purchasing PHEVs for company cars. 2. they did not require any sort of charging infrastructure at businesses taking advantage of said credits. 3. they did not require companies to reimburse for charging at home. So the results were the actual drivers were dis-incentivized to plug in since they still had a company gas card. Gas = Free, Electricity = Money out of pocket so yeah only an idiot would charge it.
Some of they other poorly thought out incentives was the soon to sunset carpool access stickers PHEVs were eligible for. ‘You never have to plug it in, but you do get the carpool sticker”. Ditto for all those people who showed up at their local CDJR dealer looking to drive home in a new car today who found that unless they wanted the 4xe they would have to do a custom order and wait several weeks, again the salesman’s song. “You never have to plug it in”
To counter that dirty clean cities bs Ford did release data from actual users about the charging habits of Kuga (Escape) PHEV owners. https://media.ford.com/content/fordmedia/feu/gb/en/news/2021/08/05/new-kuga-plug-in-hybrid-data-shows-nearly-half-of-mileage-uses-e.html
That pretty much mirrors my experience with a PHEV, the since purchase avg MPG is about twice what the car does on gas so ~1/2 of my driving is electric. To which many may say see too small of a battery. That is not the answer because the reason it racks up gas miles is road trips that a larger battery would not be any significant help. Some of the other gas miles is because it is much more effecient to fire up the engine for ~2 miles to heat the cabin and battery than it is to do that with resistive heat. So thoughtfully used a little gas can dramatically improve electric range.
Here is a page with a bunch of polls of actual owners most of who seem to be US based. https://www.torquenews.com/1083/plug-hybrid-electric-vehicle-owners-plug-them-most-days-heres-how-we-know Granted the poll question were quite shitty but the data shows that again owners plug them in with the time they gave the option of never the result was 0%
Also yeah you don’t plug PHEVs in away from home, unless it is free, otherwise you will spend more on public charging than running the car on gas in many if not most areas.
I had made similar assertions on past articles based on the flawed European market (I was going to say flawed studies, but that’s not quite right). The US shows that when properly-designed incentives are created, the fleet converts and is used properly.
It isn’t like all the incentives were great in the US. For some people in CA that car pool sticker was a holy grail giving them back hours every week.
Right but that didn’t disincentivize charging like European fuel-card schemes do. It’s independent of the manner in which you added energy to the car.
True it didn’t disincentivize charging but it did incentivize buying a PHEV even though you didn’t have a way to charge at home or work. Both schemes put people behind the wheel of a PHEV that simply weren’t going to charge it, no matter what the reason.
But if you bought a PHEV in California, there was still an incentive to plug in — namely, high gas prices. In the European case, it would cost the driver *more* to plug in, while in California it costs more to not plug in.
Yes CA has high gas prices but also has even higher electricity prices. For some people that does make it more expensive charge a PHEV at home than it is to fill it with gas.
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/10/08/upshot/ev-versus-gas-car-comparison-cost.html
If you scroll down you can pick a state, of course as noted those are averages and do vary within the state and depending on the electric provider you may have access to off-peak pricing ect.
If you can’t charge at home it becomes even more expensive to plug it in.
So yeah it was an incentive that mainly served to give people car pool access with minimal environmental benefits. It also served to promote their agenda that PHEVs are bad since people don’t plug them in and for those that do plug them in skewing the numbers to show that they travel more miles in Hybrid mode than EV mode.
2020 was also about when new EU fuel economy standards hit. Suddenly, Mazda was only selling mild PHEVs. So, even if you weren’t in some heavily-taxed, bonus-land like Belgium, the cars you could buy were only PHEV. I didn’t buy a car then, but I street park and only drive long-distance. If I’d bought a car five years newer, it’d be a PHEV I never plugged in. Why would I bother?
I have an idea for an interesting EV article. We see articles about EV and ICE cost comparisons. I read today California electricity is 2x to 3x more than anywhere in the country. Is an EV in the EV capital cheaper than an ICE vehicle? Also will it continue with no refineries operating in California? Will the CA outdated electrical grid be able to support every car when gas is $10 a gallon or more. Enter the Thunder dome
I heard that charging an (likely mainstream crossover) EV is barely cheaper than refueling a Prius in California. There’s probably a bigger gap if you compare crossovers to crossovers, though. Pure ICE/mild hybrids don’t seem anywhere near competitive, though.
California at least has 30%+ above average gasoline prices to make driving the Prius more expensive. Massachusetts has average gasoline prices and electricity prices that are nearly as high as California, so there the Prius is cheaper.
That is probably only true if you are using paid public chargers.
Of course, the major issue is that AI data centers are jacking up electricity rates by up to 36%
The winning move if you live in CA is (or at least was, haven’t checked lately) to buy, I mean lease a VW. Unlimited free 30 min charging sessions at EA stations.
There are over a dozen operating refineries in California.
The misinformation about California is annoying, to say the least.
10 dollar gasoline? There is no basis for that, just hyperbole with the intention to create fear of the future.
Electricity is free with solar panels – my modest array covers 100%+ of my use and pays for itself within five years. (I installed it myself, and paid for the kit up front.) Pacific Gas and Electric is a ripoff, but would only be triple the cost of the absolute cheapest state in the union.
Hawaii’s electric rates are even higher than CA. And there are other states that are in the same ballpark. If you live in or around Sacramento, rates are much lower than most of the rest of the state. In general, it appears that areas serviced by municipal utilities (SMUD in Sacramento; Tacoma Power where I live) have significantly lower rates. I have a ~$28/month base service charge and the electricity is a shade less than $0.09/Kwh.
A good article with some really well thought out arguments. Like why buy it if you aren’t going to use it, or did they get a great rebate or government money. Why did the manufacturers push to require monitoring devices if they aren’t taking advantage of the information? Do buyers know it needs plugged in and is not charged by using the motor? Yes surveys suck as many won’t answer, most likely the lazy who won’t charge so a large bias. At work I use a golf cart and I plug in only when I feel it is getting low are the users waiting for that?
Every automaker knows exactly how often their PHEVs are charged and a whole host of other data. If you are driving a car made in the last 10 – 15 years it is reporting a whole bunch of data back to home base.
I know for a fact that my 2017 Alltrack is not sending data back to the mothership. Because it came with 3G connectivity.
So it is no longer sending data to the mothership. When it was new it did.
Or could have. If I didn’t subscribe to a service, VW would have had to pay the phone companies.
The automaker I work for pays to connect all of our vehicles.
So does GM for my 2017 Bolt. I get a monthly status even though I do not pay for any connected services
The EU and UK provided incentives to buy PHEVs as company cars. Company-provided cars are very common as a fringe benefit in Europe because they’re taxed at a much lower rate (for the company) and not at all (for the employee) — rather than income which is often subject to marginal tax rates north of 40% or more.
But they failed to consider that the next common fringe benefit is a fuel card for commuting — which means that, unless the business installs chargers at the employee parking, there’s no reason for the employees to ever charge the cars since they’d be paying for energy but fueling up for free.
We don’t plug in our Rav4 PHEV every day, but we don’t drive every day either. We keep in mind where we are driving the next day and plug in (120v) when we anticipate a long drive. When the EV range gets to around 10ish, we plug it in. We can go for many days on oour 45 mile range.
The Euro data was always messed up by the company car thing they have going on over there. I always thought most people in the US plugged in.
Exactly. My brother has a BMW330e. So does may father in law. My retired father in law pays for his own gas and electric. So the battery is always charged and he loves driving give miles into town and back on silent kilowatts and gets 40+ miles per UK gallon. My brother’s is a company car. He has a fully expensed fuel card for gas and a low tax rate. He doesn’t charge overnight because he would have to pay for his own kilowatt hours and gets 25 miles per UK gallon lugging an unused battery around with his 2.0 litre turbo. What can I say?
A couple observations as a phev and an ev owner:
– in the uk, and maybe the eu, for a long time phevs were incentivized for company cars. However, the drivers of those cars would be reimbursed with gas cards but not for electric. So phev owners were incentivized to not plug in. So it might not actually be true to say that us behaviour mirrors European behaviour.
– I actually feel I need the L2 home charger for the phev more than the ev. The phev can be driven in the morning, charger quickly, then driven again in the afternoon with a small battery. With the ev, I only need to charge it every few days anyways, so a slow charger is fine (although we do have two L2 chargers for convenience)
– the actual fuel consumption of the phev is wwwaaaaaaayyyyyy higher than the epa average in the winter. The engine turns on to heat the car, so even if it’s fully charged it runs on gas. So it’s not a matter of it having being plugged in so much as its design is terrible.
Query? Why does the engine turn on to heat the car instead of just using the electric from the house? I used to run a diesel in PA and I had a block heater. It ran off my porch light so 10 below at 4am the truck started right up and the HVAC system provided heat as soon as I turned it over.
It’s a Chrysler?
Honestly I have no idea but it’s incredibly annoying to be doing a short kid drop off in the winter and to be running on gas when you’re 100% charged.
The Pacifica has a resistive heater, however resistive heaters draw a lot of power making cheaper to use the ICE’s waste heat and you’ll have more total EV range, by running the engine for ~2mi at the start.
Makes sense. Still annoying when a big part of minivan life is a bunch of individual 1 miles drives.
Does the Pacifica have different drive modes? How about scheduled leave times with the ability to precondition the cabin? For school drop off with a very predictable departure time is perfect for using preconditioning so that the vehicle is heated before you start the trip making it less likely that the engine would be started in such a short trip.
Nope and nope.
Well that is lame, we had that on our 2013 C-Max Energi.
Lots of PHEVs do not have an electric heater or heat pump like EVs have. Instead they rely on the engine coolant for heat just like a regular gas car.
Someone could install an aftermarket block heater but that would only start off the journey will warm coolant. The car still has to run the engine to keep the coolant warm and the heater flowing warm air.
I charge my C-Max both at home and work, and my commute lets me drive mostly gas free (efficiency goes down in winter). So I usually go several months without filling the gas tank. With electricity costs being a little more than a third of fuel costs per mile, it’s a no brainer.
I worked with someone that only got his Prius Prime for the carpool stickers and never plugged it in. Sheer madness. Every plug-in hybrid we’ve had over the years (Volt, Prius Prime, Escape, and now an XC60) is faster and more enjoyable to drive when using that EV battery. Come on, people. Come on.
PHEVs (and Erevs) need at least 100 mile battery only range to encourage plugging them in every night. Being able to drive without sucking up any gas is a game changer.
Depends on how much your money is worth to you I think.
In my example with a phev van with 50ish kms (30? Miles) of range, with charging at 10c/kw and gas at $1.5/l ($5.7 (?)/gallon), I save about $6 every time I plug in and drive until I’m out of electrons. For $6 – plus the fact that I don’t have to stop for gas outside of road trips – I’ll plug in every night.
No larger batteries do not incentivize people to plug in, if anything it causes people to not get in the habit of plugging in every time they return home.
100 miles,of range in an efficient EV should be a 1/3 sized battery compared to a straight 300 mile ish EV. The other issue with PHeVs is they often suck in EV only mode as they have limited hp and torque. An all electric drive EREV (with 100ish mile battery range) is the sweet spot and always has full power on tap. Much better than a hybrid phev. Too bad there’s none available right now in the US.
100mi means most people are dragging around a bunch of battery that is rarely used. It is true that some PHEVs “suck” in EV mode and that is simply due to the choices made by the mfg. EREVs are inefficient at road trips, their whole reason for existence. The ultimate set up which Honda needs to bring back is a 40-50 mile battery pack for their existing hybrids. Their traction motor is sized to provide full power in battery or serial mode but provide direct drive at higher speeds from good MPG when operating in hybrid mode. Plus it is far cheaper to produce with much better packaging than any of the proposed EREVs.
Depends on the use case. For a one car family that uses the car mostly around town, 100 miles covers a couple of extra side trips a day and a buffer for winter driving. The erev generator, if purpose built for generator duty only, can be efficient. No range issues, maybe level 1 charging to top it off nightly, and 100pct pure ev power and torque at all times. Not the best choice for everyone, but I think it’s the best choice for most, especially is places like the South where public charging sucks.,
Individual use case, of course, is very important. In the us they average family does have 2 cars. Average miles per year for US vehicles is somewhere around 15k per year. 15000/365= 41mi/day. The reported avg commute is lower which makes sense when you consider road trip use will typically be far higher miles per day than someone’s commute. So at least 1/2 of the US vehicles could do their day to day driving in EV only mode with that ~50mi range. Even CA figured out the diminishing returns of larger batteries when they set the minimum EV range to 50 mi to qualify for the ZEV credit and the average mi/yr in CA is one of the highest in the US.
The other thing is if you are doing multiple trips in a day you can plug in between uses. It is not uncommon for our PHEV to get used for multiple trips in a single day and when we return home we always plug it in. The majority of the time the vehicle is back to full for the second trip of the day.
The math doesn’t quite math that way. That 100 mile PHEV is dragging around an engine and all the accessories that go with it so they are less efficient per mile than a pure EV.
For example a Niro EV goes 3.9 miles per KWh and the Niro PHEV only goes 3.7
A bigger battery does help with power in EV mode and giving a PHEV a more EV feel.
What are the battery sizes of the Nero EV and PHEV?
Seems like you just need to decrease the size (weight) of the battery by the weight of the ICE engine generator, which according to my math is not a hardship at all.
The 125hp engine, trans, and axles in my 35 year old Civic weigh 300lbs. The engine and IMA (electric) motor in my 25 year old Insight has to be MUCH less than that (it’s physically about half the size and a 1L vs 1.5L, plus lots of parts went from aluminum to plastic). Some math: LiFePO4 = 56 Wh/lb (google). 300lb for ICE motor / generator / cooling system (surely they can match hp/lb of a 90s Honda) * 56Wh/lb = 17kWh range lost when we make the battery 300lbs lighter.
So for a decrease in battery capacity of 17kWh = 65 miles (16.8kWh*3.9mi/kWh) = we can get an PHEV that can refill in 5 minutes at any gas station with no increase in weight of the car. Engine doesn’t need any accessories (alternator, power steering, A/C) since those are already in the EV and run off electricity (from the battery or engine/generator)
A 40 mile EV range plus a 300 lb engine/generator seems like the sweet spot to me, although to your point, it won’t have as much power of the EV with the larger battery
You would also have to remove the weight of the gas tank, fuel lines, Evap system, fuel pump, exhaust, catalytic converter, radiator, coolant, engine harness and a bunch of other small items that still add up.
True. That might be 100lbs plus 50 lbs for the gas, which is pretty significant.
However, I have a motorcycle with a 5 gallon gas tank, fuel lines, evap, a radiator, exhaust, catalytic converter, 6 speed transmission, alternator, electric starter, etc that makes 70hp and the whole motorcycle weighs 350lbs. The powertrain has to be less than half the total motorcycle weight.
The fact that the range extender only operates at 100% power or is off means it doesn’t need variable valve timing, or runner length, etc and simplifies the design.
I’ve got to think with some good engineering you could use a motorcycle style / derived power pack and get the weight of everything down to 250lbs
I wouldn’t be surprised if this comes down to Americans having garages and Europeans usually not. Plus American PH/EV buyers are mostly suburban, while big cities incentivize it in Europe.
I would love a PHEV van. We use it regularly for short hops around town but every now and then end up in places where it’s hard to find gas stations so a 230 mile range EV minivan isn’t going to cut it.
If only there was a PHEV minivan on the market.
Ok, let me rephrase that, if only there was TWO PHEV minivans on the market.
Sienna Prime oh Sienna Prime wherefore art thou Sienna Prime?
As an owner of a Pacifica hybrid, I can honestly say… I wish there was a sienna prime.
On the flip side I did just get a notice saying my battery warranty was extended to unlimited years/kms because of a defect, so I guess there’s that…
Agreed a Hybrid EV is like carrying around a container of gas without the fumes. Can you run ICE then turn on the battery like a reserve tank?
It all depends on the individual vehicle’s programming. Ours has 4 modes.
Auto, it will mostly run in EV mode unless the temps are low or you ask for all the beans. Once it does start up it will continue to run until coolant temp reaches ~160, then shut off until you ask for all the beans again or that heat has been consumed.
EV Now, the engine will not turn on even when asking for all the beans unless you press the “OK” button. When it gets very cold it will run the engine to provide the initial heat.
EV Later, it will preserve the current SOC more or less and will operate as a typical hybrid with the engine turning off and back on.
Charge Now, will as the name implies will charge the battery though you may still see the engine cycle off before the battery is fully charged.
Personally I do use the EV later mode when I get on the freeway and I know I’m going to exceed the pure EV range. Then when off the freeway go back to Auto or EV Now.
It comes down to most PHEVs in Europe being company cars and companies making employees pay out of pocket to charge at home vs buying gas on a company card.
When I had the 4XE and it wasn’t under a do not charge/can catch fire recall, I charged it every day.
So you’re in the “rarely” column. 🙂
Ohhh snap got em haha
I guess you could say that. I’m really in the glad its not my problem anymore category.
That’s so bizarre, I feel like a failure when I have to use the gas engine on my Volt unless I’m leaving town. It’s always charged.
I’ll insert the obligatory dumb anti-Hyundai comment before someone else does it…
“Hyundai owners plug in their vehicles all the time to make sure they make it to 100K before their crappy ICE engines brow up.”
That being said, it’s good see to see at least one brand share positive information about PHEV usage right after Toyota’s opposing claim and efforts to make a game of charging their vehicles to improve their owners’ plug-in usage. Normalizing the habit of plugging in among the non-early adopter class will help with future EREV and BEV adoption.
I suppose it does make that 100,000 mile powertrain warranty easier if the engine only has to run part of the time….
We have a CX90 PHEV and charge daily from a level 1 at home. Barely use any gas during the week. Did a 600 mile round trip road trip without charging and got 28.2MPG, started with 50% battery. Regularly stop at public level 2 chargers, many are zero cost for the first hour.
Our first PHEV is waiting for a berth on a ship, but when it gets here the plan is certainly to plug it in every day (as it will be garaged). Seems silly to get a PHEV and not bother to plug it in. Just get a mild hybrid or pure gas machine if you don’t intend to plug it in. Why would you want to carry dead weight that could instead be increasing your milage and/or power?
It’s a real thing to get a PHEV for compliance purposes where you have “Clean Air Zone” areas. It, effectively, allows you to continue to drive and operate your vehicle as you have always done without fees or restrictions.
Not surprised that Hyundai and Kias have high charge rates for their PHEVs, as most of them also have non-plug in hybrid versions. So someone is paying more for the PHEV and understanding they should use the plug. Vs if you just want the “Hybrid” for say… a Volvo XC90, it happens to be a PHEV but that’s the only hybrid option.
Could probably infer the same from Prius PHEV owners. If only we had the data…
See my link above, below or where ever it ends up. We do have data, well from a poll and yup Prius PHEV owners are the worst, while RAV-4 PHEV drivers are much better at plugging them in.
agreed. if you’re not going to use the tech, why even bother buying the tech? it’s not like there aren’t equivalent non-PHEVs available for less.
then again, people buy 4 door pickups and use them like minivans to be ‘cool’ so maybe it’s some bizarro status thing to have that PHEV sticker on your car?
Well depending on when and where you bought your PHEV along with your tax liability the PHEV can be cheaper than the HEV version of the same vehicle or even the ICE only as was the case when I purchased ours.
And yes in many areas it is a non bizare reason for having that PHEV badge on your car and that was so you could qualify for the “Clean Air Access” stickers and save money and time with free HOT/carpool lane access. So yeah lots of people bought them for those stickers with no intention of plugging them in, and often no way to plug them in at home.
Most PHEVs in Europe are company cars. The company got a tax credit worth more than the extra cost of the PHEV so they bought PHEVs. Their employees that actually drive the cars have a company gas card but if they choose to charge at home they have to pay for electricity out of pocket.
When you understand that the idea of buying a PHEV that never gets plugged in makes a lot more sense. (or euro cents)