Home » PSA: There Is No Such Thing As ‘Level 2++’ Autonomy So Don’t Trust Carmakers Who Say That Crap

PSA: There Is No Such Thing As ‘Level 2++’ Autonomy So Don’t Trust Carmakers Who Say That Crap

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Attention, everybody! Attention! I have an announcement to make, one that it looks like needs announcing far more often than I’d like. It’s about automated driving tech, and, more specifically, the terminology we used when talking about such tech. I’ll be the first to admit that the terminology can be confusing, and this confusion has the potential to really mislead people about how automated driving-assist systems actually work, which can lead to people misunderstanding the capabilities of such systems, which can then lead to actual safety concerns. So let’s just take a moment to address a recently popular bit of nonsense, what some carmakers are calling “Level 2++”

We’ve been seeing more of this recently because Mercedes-Benz just announced they’re dropping their Level 3 automated driving system (which is itself a whole disgusting can of confusing worms) and is instead focusing on their MB.DRIVE ASSIST PRO, which they have been referring to as a “Level 2++” system.

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It’s not even subtle; here, look at this video about the system they released:

It’s possible that you, a healthy, well-adjusted person with a rich, full social life, has never really bothered to think about these automated driving levels, and you may not realize why I feel this is so dangerous and stupid. If that’s the case, mazel tov on your fulfilling life, and allow me to explain a bit.

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The problem with saying an automated driving system is Level 2++ – or even Level 2+, a term that automated driving tech company Mobileye uses – is that these sorts of terms attempt to turn the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) automated driving classification system into something that it is fundamentally not. Remember, the Levels of Driving Automation are not a measure of how much or how good a given automated driving system is: the levels only indicate the division of responsibility between the human and the machine. That’s it.

Do I need to pull out the chart again? Fine, here’s the chart:

Sae LevelsAll the levels refer to is the division of labor between you and your car. Level 1 is all you, human. Level 2 means the car is performing some amount of the driving task, but you must be monitoring it nonstop and ready to take over at any moment. Level 3 is a real mess, because there’s really no one in charge. Sometimes the car is in total control, and you don’t need to pay attention, until you do, then you’re in control. As far as I can tell no company has described exactly how to make those handoffs work well.

Level 4 means the car is in charge completely, at least within certain boundaries; robotaxi companies like Waymo are at this level. And Level 5 is pure magic, a car that just drives on its own everywhere, all the time.

That’s it! That’s all the levels mean! It has nothing to do with how advanced a driving assist system is or what sorts of capabilities it has. If it cannot be absolutely trusted on its own and it needs a human driver to be always watching, that’s Level 2, no matter if it’s Tesla’s FSD or GM’s SuperCruise or Mercedes-Benz’ MB.DRIVE ASSIST. Those are all Level 2 because they all leave the human driver in ultimate control of everything and on the hook if anything goes wrong.

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That means, yes, the people in this Tesla from a video that’s been making the rounds, who are sleeping while the car drives itself using FSD, are being idiots, and should anything go wrong, it will be 100% their fault, because FSD is still a Level 2 system that requires constant human oversight, period.


Adding one or two pluses after the Level 2 is simply nonsensical. Level 2 isn’t a level of driving advancement or skill; it just means a human has to be watching all the time. Logically, you would think a Level 2++ system then would need more human focus and attention, because, again, Level 2 means a person must be watching, so slapping a ++ to the name would mean you’d better be really flapping watching.

Terms like Level 2++ just confuse consumers, who are already confused. Mercedes is using the term because they believe their system is so advanced, it needs to have a different label than other L2 systems, but they couldn’t be more wrong. They’re conflating two different things: the supervision category of the SAE Levels and some general idea of technological sophistication. But you just can’t do that.

That’d be like saying you have a six-year-old kid who you can’t leave at home alone without a babysitter, but they’re a really smart kid, and they can read and make awesome things out of Lego, so you call them your Kid++. Does this mean that because your 6-year-old Kid++ is good at lots of things and can heat up their own Hot Pocket, you can just leave them on their own for a weekend? Hell no. But this is exactly what Mercedes-Benz is doing with that Level 2++ name. It doesn’t matter what it’s capable of: it’s still a Level 2 system, and you still have to babysit it.

It’s just stupid marketing crap, but in this case it’s stupid marketing crap that actively confuses drivers and obfuscates what these systems’ capabilities actually are. People already wildly overestimate what their automated driver assisted systems can do; widespread use of these terms – and media outlets just accepting them – just makes everything worse. The SAE level system is already confusing enough to people, so why do this?

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There is no such thing as Level 2+ or Level 2++. Or, for that matter, Level 2+++ or Level 3+ or Level 4- or any other marketing idiocy. Levels do not indicate what the systems do; only how they work with you, the human. Period.

Top graphic image: Mercedes Benz/YouTube

 

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10001010
Member
10001010
23 minutes ago

I’m waiting for Level 5+, can drive anywhere anytime and also comes with a red scanner, turboboost, and a snarky attitude.

Data
Data
10 minutes ago
Reply to  10001010

Michael, your choice of music is regrettable and after forcing me to endure 2 Fast 2 Furious, I am thinking of giving you the ejecto seato, cuz.

Needles Balloon
Needles Balloon
33 minutes ago

I kinda understand the need for such a term (but I still think what Merc did is wrong), because of the flwas in the definition of L3 driving. Nobody wants to officially call their basically-L3 ADAS system right now because no governing body has set the standard for the minimum handoff time from auton to human driving. If it’s 2 seconds, several current systems could qualify, but if it’s minimum 10 seconds, that might as well be L4. Thus you still need to call it L2, but how do you differentiate that from a base model Corolla or Slate Truck which is also classified as L2 with their adaptive cruise control?

Emil Minty
Emil Minty
34 minutes ago

Autonomy: “the quality or state of being independent, free, and self-directing.” I’d say there’s nothing below Level 3 that should be called autonomous. If you have to monitor it, it’s not independent. It’s your kid at college who still needs you to assist with adulting.

Needles Balloon
Needles Balloon
40 minutes ago

China banned this kind of misleading marketing in April last year after a prominent fatal crash of a Xiaomi SU7 in its highway semi-auton mode (it was the base trim level with the least advanced capabilities). Now automakers must emphasize that the driver is still responsible in L2 with terms like ‘assisted driving’. The misleading marketing wasn’t necessarily the cause of the crash, but it was a good time to crack down on it anyways given that the country’s biggest auto show was the week after.

Data
Data
42 minutes ago

This reminds me of Intel when they were having problems scaling their node down per their tick-tock cadence. Well, we failed to move to a smaller nm scale die, but we improved performance somewhat by throwing more power at it. Smoke and mirrors.

Needles Balloon
Needles Balloon
40 minutes ago
Reply to  Data

14nm++++

Beasy Mist
Member
Beasy Mist
56 minutes ago

Ralphie having a vision of his teacher at the chalkboard writing LEVEL 2 + + + + + + + + + + and everybody cheering

CUlater
Member
CUlater
49 minutes ago
Reply to  Beasy Mist

So good…

Ash78
Ash78
43 minutes ago
Reply to  Beasy Mist

Subaru like “You’ll shoot your EyeSight™ out, kid!”

Will Sheldon
Will Sheldon
4 minutes ago
Reply to  Beasy Mist

In the heat of battle with his autonomous driving system 2++++++, my father wove a tapestry of obscenity that as far as we know is still hanging in space over Detroit Michigan

Shop-Teacher
Member
Shop-Teacher
1 hour ago

Does anybody else have a sudden craving for a Hot Pocket?

AssMatt
Member
AssMatt
59 minutes ago
Reply to  Shop-Teacher

Does anybody else suddenly want to make a wooden coat hook?

Adam Schluck
Adam Schluck
4 minutes ago
Reply to  Shop-Teacher

But is it a semi-autonomous Hot Pocket that will automatically dispense lava onto your tongue under the correct conditions, or am I the one ultimately in charge of that?

Ash78
Ash78
1 hour ago

“Why do you just make 2 even more autonomous?”

“But….but these go to 2++

Live2ski
Member
Live2ski
50 minutes ago
Reply to  Ash78

when you need that extra push over the cliff

CUlater
Member
CUlater
46 minutes ago
Reply to  Ash78

Outstanding. This story is turning into a COTD breeding ground.

Tekamul
Member
Tekamul
1 hour ago

I understand the expedience behind categorizing the levels with simple numbers, but they should have more qualitative names.
Level 1 = Cruise control
Level 2 = It helps, but your insurance pays for mistakes
Level 3 = It pretends to be driving, but your insurance pays for mistakes
Level 4 = It absolutely does everything, except pay for mistakes, that’s your insurance
Level 5 = The car maker’s insurance pays for mistakes

David Lorengo
Member
David Lorengo
1 hour ago
Reply to  Tekamul

Nice, I think that’s what also gets lost in this mess, who is liable when something goes wrong. Basically it’s the driver until Level 5.

CUlater
Member
CUlater
40 minutes ago
Reply to  David Lorengo

Oh, I think it will still be the driver at level 5 – your car, your choice to take it out for a drive…

Kevin Rhodes
Member
Kevin Rhodes
14 minutes ago
Reply to  Tekamul

Almost. If “Level 4” is what a Robotaxi is today (and doesn’t even require controls in the car), then the automaker’s insurance is paying at L4. If I understand the distinction between L4 and L5, it’s basically geofencing and weather restriction. An L4 Waymo Robotaxi can drive itself around San Francisco or Phoenix, but you can’t pick one up and drop it on Rt 3 in rural Maine in a snowstorm and expect a good result. You should be able to tell an L5 car to go anywhere in any weather a human can handle and expect to get there unscathed.

I have no interest in any of this until I can buy a car that can do L4 on Interstate highways in decentish weather. If the weather is too bad, fine, I will drive and take responsibility. Or more likely, stay home.

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