Home » Reddit Commenters And Our Commenters Were Right, We Whiffed On This One

Reddit Commenters And Our Commenters Were Right, We Whiffed On This One

Whiffed Ts4

So far this year, we’ve written 558 new articles. That’s a lot! Especially when you consider we don’t do AI slop or use outside vendors to create SEO-inflected, trending garbage. Did all of those articles land? No. Of course not. One in particular aroused a lot of interest, and not in a good way. We sort of whiffed it, and since I was around when it happened, I thought I’d explain what happened and what our guidelines are for this kind of thing going for it.

The article in question was proposed in Slack with the very suggestive headline: “If Americans Don’t Want Small Cars, Why Did This Honda Fit Only Depreciate $1,180 In Eleven Years.” That, to me, is a funny headline. When it was mentioned, I had a good chuckle. I wasn’t actively editing stories, and I didn’t think much about it at the time.

Vidframe Min Top
Vidframe Min Bottom

The car in question was a 2015 Honda Fit, in yellow, with somehow only 1,600 miles on the odometer. It sold for $18,000 on BaT, because of course it did. Low-mileage cars exist in a universe in which other cars do not, and extrapolating that out into a larger trend is, of course, kinda silly. Right there, we should have killed the headline, because no realistic version of that post could have lived up to it.

That doesn’t mean that the car wasn’t newsworthy. The larger point could have been that there are some people who do find these cars desirable, and the reversal of Obama-era footprint rules might create an opening for more small cars. Alternatively, people are obsessed with these cars, and a good post could be had just describing how beloved they are.

That’s not the post that got published. Instead, we wrote something that only very obliquely mentions the above and is way too nuanced for anything approaching a headline that bombastic. That’s our bad. That’s also my bad, because I gave a nod to the working headline without reading the post, and then moved on with my day. I didn’t realize something was wrong until I saw the comments on Reddit, where people were absolutely ripping us a new one. Sometimes Reddit can be unfairly harsh, because the critiquing of things is always easier than the doing of things. I don’t think that’s what happened here.

I rushed back to the site to actually read the website, and I gulped. The commenters here, as on Reddit, accused us of Clickbait and they weren’t wrong. I’ve gone back and changed the headline, but far too late to really matter.

The thing about Clickbait is that we write this stuff so people read it, which means we write the headline that we think people will read. That’s how bait works. The best version of a headline is one that gets you to click, and then overdelivers relative to your expectations. I think about this the way Costco thinks about Kirkland brand stuff. Costco, famously, demands that its store brand stuff be at least 1% better than whatever it’s meant to be duping. An Autopian story should be better than the headline that gets you to read it. That was almost impossible with that headline. [Note: I think the big issue is that the headline tries to make an incorrect point (that a lot of Americans like small cars) and the evidence is a cherry-picked low-mileage cream puff. It’s a bit insulting to the readers’ intelligence. And we have the sharpest readers in town. -DT]

What we usually say around here is: Are we earning a click or are we stealing a click? If we “steal” a click, that’s one pageview, and you never come back. That doesn’t work for us. A reputation is built on 1,000 articles and lost on one. If we “earn” a click, you hopefully read and, even if you don’t agree with us (ahem, timing belts), you at least know that we believe what we’re saying and understand that it’s a good-faith argument. It makes you want to come back.

In this case, we let down both the readers and the author, Thomas, by not interrogating it more before it went up. The post ended up in an uncomfortable no man’s land between Totally Sincere and Tongue-in-Cheek, and while plenty of commenters on both Reddit and here seemed to find some nuance in the article, it’s hard to blame anyone who didn’t. Going forward, we’re going to reiterate internally that our standards require us to overdeliver with our posts, and that, if you’re going to make a claim, there has to be solid proof to back it up. And if your claim is a joke, that has to be abundantly clear.

I’m just writing this to point out that we heard you and to say thanks. I sometimes get emails critical of a specific post, technology change, headline, or whatever. People are nice, and they usually say something like “I’m sorry to email you about this, but I think X doesn’t work” or “Apologies about bothering you, but I thought Y was a bad post.”

I always tell them that they don’t need to apologize. For every person emailing, commenting, or putting a note on Reddit or social media who dislikes something, there are probably at least a few more who aren’t going to tell us. I love it when people tell us how much they love the site, but I also appreciate it when people care enough to tell us when we miss. It’s the only way we can get better, and that’s what we want to do.

Almost all of the car magazines or websites you read are owned by one of a handful of large, often private equity-backed monoliths, and we’re not going to be able to compete with them if we don’t listen to our audience and take it seriously. It’s actually very helpful to get this kind of feedback. And though we believe we have the highest editorial standards in this business, we still have work to do.

Does this mean every story after this will be perfect? Absolutely not! We’re going to make more mistakes. I have some really dumb things that I very sincerely believe, but when I write about them, I want you to feel like it was worth it to spend a few minutes of your time listening to that really dumb argument.

Ok, you want a really dumb argument: VW should swap all of its cars, other than the GTI, with Cupra and Škoda models. That’s a freebie!

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Alpscarver
Member
Alpscarver
30 days ago

I would cut you some slack. I liked the article headline and clicked on it but didn’t really feel misled and I assume most readers are intelligent enough to understand what you wanted to express.

Last edited 30 days ago by Alpscarver
TheDrunkenWrench
Member
TheDrunkenWrench
30 days ago

My disappointment is immeasurable, and my day is ruined.

Nah, I glossed the article anyways.

Emil Minty
Emil Minty
30 days ago

Old site: You’ll never believe which cars don’t depreciate! Watch this slideshow to find out!

pliney the welder
pliney the welder
30 days ago
Reply to  Emil Minty

SPOT ON .

Torque
Torque
22 days ago
Reply to  Emil Minty

In the days before Herb, ye old German lighting site wasn’t that way.
I legit would love to hear examples outside of Berkshire Hathaway of a large company or venture capital buying out a smaller business and the smaller business actually Improving after the sale

Ev_dave13
Ev_dave13
30 days ago

Back in pre-social media days, we were taught in a customer service class that only about 10% of dissatisfied customers actually complain, so the problem is typically about 10 times as big or urgent as the complaints make it appear. I wonder what the ratio is for issues like this – how many dissatisfied readers does it take for one to email the site about it?

Rafael
Member
Rafael
30 days ago
Reply to  Ev_dave13

Now we have review bombers complaining of stuff they didn’t experience, so I suppose the maths might be far more complex now.

Red865
Member
Red865
29 days ago
Reply to  Ev_dave13

In a customer service class had in retail many, many moons ago, we were told one unhappy customer would complain to lots people about their poor experience vs a happy customer just going on with their day.

FndrStrat06
FndrStrat06
30 days ago

Between this and that somehow-not-AI thumbnail a week or two ago, am I the only one that’s wondering where the editors went? Come on guys, both of these incidents could’ve been completely avoided if someone just took 2 minutes to scrutinize a little before publishing.

Appreciate the transparency, but a pattern is developing here…

Last edited 30 days ago by FndrStrat06
Weston
Weston
30 days ago
Reply to  FndrStrat06

How is “we made an image that people thought was AI but actually isn’t” relatable to a poorly written headline. Writers and editors and busy and sometimes things get missed and sometimes things seem like a good idea when they really aren’t. Messing up on a few headlines is to be expected by mortal humans

Greg
Member
Greg
30 days ago
Reply to  Weston

guys one of those other journo’s that reads the site they were mentioning.

JJ
Member
JJ
30 days ago
Reply to  FndrStrat06

They’ve published over 500 stories in the last two months. Calling TWO mistakes a “pattern” is a stretch.

Mike Harrell
Member
Mike Harrell
30 days ago

So far this year, we’ve written 558 new articles… One in particular aroused a lot of interest, and not in a good way.

This means thousands of articles by the end of the year, at which point I assume we’ll all be receiving prorated membership refund checks for this one?

JJ
Member
JJ
30 days ago
Reply to  Mike Harrell

Only those who request a refund. Good news is, that will increase your payout.

Hugh Crawford
Member
Hugh Crawford
30 days ago

Bla bla bla…

“VW should swap all of its cars, other than the GTI, with Cupra and Škoda models.”

Oh please, Škodas for me, and if Cupra had a SEAT for me that would be just dandy.

A Cupra Leon with a bumper sticker attesting to its wanker status would be epic. I could drive it to my old school with that dam pump handle in the back.

Hugh Crawford
Member
Hugh Crawford
28 days ago
Reply to  Hugh Crawford

It took that long for this to get approved?

See if any other pan Annandale denizens see this.

Last edited 28 days ago by Hugh Crawford
David Smith
Member
David Smith
27 days ago
Reply to  Hugh Crawford

It’s because you spelled blah incorrectly, three time no less.

It's Pronounced Porch-ah
Member
It's Pronounced Porch-ah
30 days ago

What’s the old saying? 80% of people admit to clickbaiting, and the other 20% lie… something like that.

Ramblin' Gamblin' Man
Member
Ramblin' Gamblin' Man
30 days ago

My Mother always told me, when I was an adolescent;

“If you keep click baiting, you’ll go blind”

So no more click baiting for me! 😉

Drew
Member
Drew
30 days ago

I was going to argue with this, because I haven’t gone blind yet. Then I put on my comically thick glasses and saw that it was “click baiting.” I’ll go back to my…usual activities.

Last edited 30 days ago by Drew
Ramblin' Gamblin' Man
Member
Ramblin' Gamblin' Man
30 days ago
Reply to  Drew

Just be sure to give your computer mouse a good wipe down with a disinfecting wipe every now and then. 😉

Lockleaf
Lockleaf
30 days ago

Ok, you want a really dumb argument: VW should swap all of its cars, other than the GTI, with Cupra and Škoda models.

I think you whiffed again here. I do not see how this is a dumb argument at all. It seems like the smartest move VW could make right now 😀

Kevin Rhodes
Member
Kevin Rhodes
30 days ago
Reply to  Lockleaf

Agreed. And swap the horrible MK8 GTI for the peak GTI that was the MK7/7.5. I prefer the 7, but understand the arguments for the 7.5 from the tech-obsessed.

Of course, I am sure VW is well on their way to ruining Skoda and Seat too.

David Fernandez
David Fernandez
30 days ago
Reply to  Lockleaf

I went to Spain last year and I absolutely loved all the cupra models. VW could and is doing way worse by not bringing those here.

I feel that at least the cuvs would sell really well

Torque
Torque
22 days ago

I saw a VW Taos pass me yesterday that made me do a double take because it was in a really lovely rich green color
So that is something positive.

“Bring back cars in real colors…” and all that; which I very much support

Stacks
Stacks
30 days ago

I wouldn’t normally barge in with unsolicited feedback, but since you brought it up, the constant clickbait headlines (in the classic “You’ll Never Guess!!” Buzzfeed sense) might be the main reason I’ve never subscribed. I open up The Autopian and I’m already annoyed before I ever even click on an article. I’ve gone from reading almost everything you publish to glancing at the top few headlines and just closing the page in irritation. Clickbait is insulting. It’s probably just me, though, I’m cranky.

Strangek
Member
Strangek
30 days ago
Reply to  Stacks

It’s part of the game of trying to drive traffic unfortunately. One can see it all over the internet these days. It’s the “You’ll Never Guess” type headline, the font style and color, the picture or thumbnail, everything. All optimized for clicks. It’s insulting to one’s intelligence in a way, but I understand why it needs to be done and I forgive it from my favorite sources.

Tbird
Member
Tbird
30 days ago
Reply to  Stacks

I get it, but at least the crew here puts thought (and often humor) into top-shots and headlines. Yeah, I’m not fan of the “Some Geniuses…” title, but the actual content is almost always good. I like the diversity of content on this site. Is every article tailored to my tastes? No, nor should it be.

Twobox Designgineer
Twobox Designgineer
30 days ago
Reply to  Tbird

Likewise, the “some genius” headlines make me cringe, but countering that are the knowledge that they are forced to do that to try to draw traffic, and that the article will be good once I get past the foul-smelling headline. I do not envy the choices and sometimes compromises that must be made in this business.

Kleinlowe
Member
Kleinlowe
30 days ago
Reply to  Stacks

I would absolutely pay extra for a ‘Non-clickbait headline’ tier of subscription, myself.

JJ
Member
JJ
30 days ago
Reply to  Matt Hardigree

We all repeat certain turns of phrase while being oblivious we do it. I could see myself appending the “….and I have questions” to headlines without even realizing it. It usually takes someone pointing it out for you to notice.

Nsane In The MembraNe
Member
Nsane In The MembraNe
30 days ago

If you’re pissing Reddit off you’re actually doing something right!

AssMatt
Member
AssMatt
30 days ago

Love the tags, as ever. A not-so-subtle dig at the “competition.”

1978fiatspyderfan
Member
1978fiatspyderfan
30 days ago

I always assumed Click bait was a headline to get the click with no concerns about the reader actually reading the story. How a headline that gets the click and an article entertaining enough to not only get the reader to read the whole article but comments as well, that is the job. I enjoyed the article and the comments as well as the site not only has good writing there are quite a few clever and witty members

Angry Bob
Member
Angry Bob
30 days ago

I didn’t see anything wrong with the title or the article, and I would pay an absurd amount of money for a low mileage mint condition 1996 Grand Cherokee Limited in black with gold accent.

You’re all doing a great job! This is the best place on the internet. Keep up the good work!

FloridaNative
Member
FloridaNative
30 days ago

TBH, I read the headline and skipped the post… knowing full well that one used car sale does not make a statistically significant sample.

Drew
Member
Drew
30 days ago

And we have the sharpest readers in town.

And you’d never stoop to flattery 😉

Last edited 30 days ago by Drew
Hugh Crawford
Member
Hugh Crawford
30 days ago
Reply to  Drew

Darn right. I was on the running with scissors team.

Twobox Designgineer
Twobox Designgineer
30 days ago
Reply to  Hugh Crawford

The Autopian softball team is rightfully names the Porcupines.

Zags
Member
Zags
30 days ago

Appreciate what you all do here and articles like this, taking accountability and making the changes, are a big part of why I’m a member. I certainly don’t ever doubt any writers/editors intentions. Keep up the good work. Also, agree it was obvious the article was just having fun.

SaabaruDude
Member
SaabaruDude
30 days ago

acknowledging feedback, admitting error, defining improvement steps, and soliciting additional future feedback so the organization can learn even faster??? It’s like you actually want to be successful or something.

Might send this example to a few people at work… and in Washington DC.

Drew
Member
Drew
30 days ago
Reply to  SaabaruDude

They’ll all know someone else who needs the example, I’m sure.

The people who need it can rarely see that it applies to them.

Last edited 30 days ago by Drew
Cody Pendant
Cody Pendant
30 days ago

I didn’t click on the original article, because I thought the headline pretty much told the whole story. Yeah, low mileage cars can sometimes appreciate and can even cost more than it did originally.

D-dub
Member
D-dub
30 days ago
Reply to  Cody Pendant

Do you want to get ants more “this one weird trick” headlines? Because comments like this is how you get more “this one weird trick” headlines!

Last edited 30 days ago by D-dub
Drew
Member
Drew
30 days ago
Reply to  D-dub

Get more clickbait headlines with this one weird trick!

Cody Pendant
Cody Pendant
30 days ago
Reply to  Drew

… that big auto journo doesn’t want you to know

Strangek
Member
Strangek
30 days ago
Reply to  Cody Pendant

but there’s a catch!

Mechjaz
Member
Mechjaz
30 days ago
Reply to  D-dub

$(yourlocation.state) Homeowners Are Doing This To Lower Their Mortgages!
dancingSkeleton.gif

Data
Data
30 days ago

*Insert Mad Max “That’s bait” meme*

Trust Doesn't Rust
Member
Trust Doesn't Rust
30 days ago

This was fucking clickbait.

I was expecting an in depth analysis of how an upside-down Honda Fit smells different from a right-side up one.

RIP Autopian.

Cody Pendant
Cody Pendant
30 days ago
Reply to  Matt Hardigree

that’s short for “laughing out out out out out out out loud”

Drew
Member
Drew
30 days ago
Reply to  Cody Pendant

But it should be read as pronounced by an excited futbol announcer.

Twobox Designgineer
Twobox Designgineer
30 days ago
Reply to  Drew

Futboooooooooooool.

Undecided profile name
Member
Undecided profile name
30 days ago

They’ll just have to have an Australian write that article

Nsane In The MembraNe
Member
Nsane In The MembraNe
30 days ago

I assume we can get Torch on this beat ASAP

Mechjaz
Member
Mechjaz
30 days ago

Probably gassier and coolantier

Emil Minty
Emil Minty
30 days ago

Need Orlove as a guest writer on that one.

Freddy Bartholomew
Member
Freddy Bartholomew
30 days ago

Sorry, I can’t get worked up about this headline. First, just look at the world news today. Second, when I read the title, I knew right away that it was just having fun. If you have been reading The Autopian for more than a week, you know what the situation is with sales of small cars. Even if you have not been reading it, if you are in the US, you can open your eyes. OK, I will stop screaming at the clouds now and go back inside.

1978fiatspyderfan
Member
1978fiatspyderfan
30 days ago

True with all the comments on Reddit instead of the Autopian site I think you guys are getting a wider presence in other people’s algorithms

Brock Landers
Member
Brock Landers
30 days ago

Indeed! People need to ‘effin relax and gain some perspective. It’s a blog about all things automotive…is anything here really worth losing your mind over???

Taargus Taargus
Member
Taargus Taargus
30 days ago

VW absolutely could just just swap out their lineup with Seats and Skodas. Would they sell? No. But nobody really cares about their crossovers either, so if you’re not going to sell things you might as well not sell cool things, right?

The Fit article wasn’t going to win any awards but I think people take some of this shit wayyyyyy too seriously. I was mostly just glad to see a yellow Fit, really.

Last edited 30 days ago by Taargus Taargus
Grey alien in a beige sedan
Member
Grey alien in a beige sedan
30 days ago

Interesting comment from that reddit post was from /u/V48runner who said “The new Jalopnik being The New Jalopnik.”

So… umm… wonder what the staff think about that one in particular?

Squirrelmaster
Member
Squirrelmaster
30 days ago
Reply to  Matt Hardigree

I have always considered The Autopian as the distillation of the best parts of the automotive Internet, especially from Jalopnik. It is why I’m a member, and I appreciate the efforts at transparency so few other sites employ.

Icouldntfindaclevername
Member
Icouldntfindaclevername
30 days ago
Reply to  Squirrelmaster

Just need to bring over 1 or 2 other ppl from another site and that would give them a royal flush in poker terms

Hugh Crawford
Member
Hugh Crawford
30 days ago
Reply to  Matt Hardigree

Tack on statistical analysis of resale values of orange and yellow cars, and it would be all fine.

One of the things that’s great about the Autopian is that people who disagree on a lot of stuff have friendly discourse, even about the stuff we may have strong feelings about.

It’s sort of like my favorite ongoing dinner party that is a mix of monarchists, communists, and anarchists that get along famously and are all somewhat nostalgic for the Cold War. They would probably all get together to drown any fascists in the eel pond though.

Personally I am here for all the automobile adjacent content, and answering the non obvious practical questions like;

What is the last and presumably safest car that you could do all the routine maintenance with the tools in the tool roll.

Other than that I’m here for culture and history.

And get on that tool roll piece would you? I’m looking for a car.

MustBe
Member
MustBe
30 days ago
Reply to  Hugh Crawford

Interesting. I don’t read that many comment sections, still the frequency with which I nonetheless encounter yours had me thinking that you were here to post comments… ;-/

1978fiatspyderfan
Member
1978fiatspyderfan
30 days ago

No way anyone can legitimately compare Jalopnik to the Autopian if anything it is what Jalopnik was or could have been before they went frigging crazy. Now they may have stepped back from the asylum but never recaptured the magic as they lost all the excellent writers who didn’t board the crazy train

Lotsofchops
Member
Lotsofchops
29 days ago

You know that’s a true redditor because they’re commenting confidently on something they clearly don’t even understand.

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