I am always excited about new automakers, and the electric car hype boom (plus low interest rates) combined to encourage a bunch of them to launch. The track record of those new startups hasn’t been great, but that hasn’t discouraged new players like Scout and Slate. Both were initially EV-only, though one is starting to diverge.
The Morning Dump is a big fan of Europe’s car association (the ACEA) because it puts out detailed data, which allows us to see how big hybrids are there and how far some brands continue to fall. You can probably guess the brands.
GM is mostly out of the European market, and its recent investment announcements show that this will likely continue. That automaker is still in Brazil, where it has to compete with a suddenly interesting Jeep brand.
Scout’s Question: To Hybrid Or Not To Hybrid
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David has been very excited lately about the Volkswagen-owned truck/SUV subsidiary Scout. He’s into it so much that he put down a deposit on one. The brand initially intended to launch as an EV-only company before suddenly adding an EREV option at the last minute to better serve its most important market (the US of A).
There’s a lot already known about this product, including that it’ll be one of the first VW vehicles to have full Rivian integration. Automotive News just did a deep dive into the company, which is about to build more production-like pre-production models, and this caught my eye:
In September, Scout CEO Scott Keogh said the brand had procured most of the materials, parts and key components for the Traveler and Terra.
Scout has relied on the vast resources of VW Group to secure better pricing and availability on parts. Scout also plans to source batteries from VW Group’s PowerCo subsidiary.
Decker said Scout has not decided whether it’s going to launch production of both models at the same time or which powertrain will be available first.
The time between the announcement of Scout and the actual first vehicles in customers’ hands is annoyingly long (which is an industry-wide problem), so it makes sense to maybe focus on getting one product out faster while holding off on the other. A report last month indicated that the hybrid was going to come first, but this seems to contradict that. Also, Scout said early on that it got way more orders for the EREV version than the EV version, so why do the EV first?
There’s a model for this. Ram straight-up cancelled its EV truck in order to build a range-extended Ram 1500. I sense that it’ll be hybrid first, but who knows. Perhaps Scout is just afraid people will cancel the EV orders if they find out how long it’ll take to come to market.
Hybrids Continue To Dominate In Europe, EVs Not Bad, Tesla Sinks Further
It’s almost getting boring writing about how poorly Tesla has done in Europe since it started facing real competition from China as well as, you know, controversy surrounding the company’s CEO. As of October, the ACEA reports that Tesla has dropped nearly 39% year-to-date and by almost 50% year-over-year this month.
The European car market is up slightly overall, so it’s not entirely a market issue. Is it an EV issue? Not quite, EVs are doing well (now 16.4% of total market share), but not as well as hybrids. This is important because it means that it’s unlikely Europe can meet its ambitious goals, even with more affordable Chinese EVs and a return of EV incentives, as the ACEA notes:
Despite this recent positive momentum, overall volumes remain far below pre-pandemic levels. The battery-electric car market share reached 16.4% YTD, yet it is still below the pace needed at this stage of the transition. Hybrid-electric vehicles lead as the most popular power type choice among buyers, with plug-in hybrids continuing to gain momentum.
It turns out people want affordable cars and a mix of powertrains, pretty much everywhere.
GM Announces More Investments In The United States
With the sale of Vauxhall/Opel, GM has mostly (but not entirely) gotten out of Europe. While China is still a key market for General Motors, there’s been a distinct shift back towards the United States. That’ll continue with the announcement this week of more production here, mostly focused on gas-powered cars, though including some Bolt:
General Motors is reinforcing its leadership in American manufacturing with a new ~$250 million commitment in its Parma Metal Center in Ohio. This will enable production of sheet metal stampings and assemblies to support the multi-billion-dollar product allocations announced at Orion Assembly (MI), Spring Hill Manufacturing (TN), and Fairfax Assembly (KS) earlier this year.
With this new commitment, GM’s total manufacturing investments for 2025 now approach $5.5 billion, underscoring the company’s aggressive commitment to domestic manufacturing and meeting customer demand across its ICE and EV portfolio.
Moon over Parma, bring a Camaro to me tonight.
Another Jeep Exec Crashes Through A Window
Yet again, a Jeep executive has missed their turn and crashed a brand-new Jeep through the window of a press event, this time in Brazil. When will this madness end?
The Morning Dump Was Made While Listening To
The reference to Parma above made me think of the only song I know about the Ohio suburb. It’s “Moon Over Parma” from The Drew Carey Show opening.
The Big Question
Are you hitting the road this Thanksgiving? How long of a drive, and what are you taking?
Photo: Scout
Doing things a lot differently this year, which normally involves a local drive of about an hour to see 20-30 extended family for the day.
This year we’re meeting friends at the beach, driving about 6 hours to FL in the Macan with the wife and dog. Should be fun. It’s not a terribly fun drive from Atlanta to the gulf coast (and in the rain later today it seems) but should be a fun time.
Couple of Thanksgivings ago I suggested this…going to beach instead of hosting the clan as we have for last several decades after another round of many showing up late/dropping at last minute. My wife does the whole spread, they just have to show up!
Next year my wife and girls made it to the beach, but I got stuck at hospital with my Mom…cant win for loosing some days (eye roll).
Thanksgiving at our house continues.
Only driving is taking the Miata to the store to get those last minute ingredients wife forgot.
Launch the higher volume model first, get the revenue coming in
That’s one of several things Stellantis messed up with the new Charger. And if anyone in management really believed that the EV version would sell in greater numbers than the ICE version, they should fire them and get new management
I have my reservation in on a Terra with the Harvester option. I’m really looking forward to it!
I so want an EREV to drive to the trailhead on a full charge, on the trail in either ev or gas, and then gas drive home to the charger.
The BEV vs EREV question is interesting. We have two BEVs and I think that to an existing BEV owner, you generally won’t see a lot of lust for an EREV. Level 2 at home and possibly an additional ICE vehicle at home make EREV less attractive.
For the buyer who hasn’t owned a BEV, EREV is likely more attractive.
I agree, 8 years into having an EV that started as a commuter/short trips vehicle and is now our primary, I don’t want longer range, I just want more charging infrastructure (and faster charging than the Bolt’s 55kW).
I’m hoping at some point to convert my old Jeep to EV, and initially was thinking that a range extender would make the most sense for offroading to remote areas, but now I think that 150 miles of range, plus the better charging infrastructure would be just fine. I’d rather have some sort of solar canopy to recharge a bit while camping than a range extender. I could also use it at home, instead of a range extender that would likely only be used a few times a year, and come with the hassle of the fuel and exhaust systems, and maintenance.
Point Blank, the EV version is a non-starter for sales outside any major metropolitan areas.
The EREV version is actually a decent compromise, and would still allow you to have the ability to actually get off the beaten track with these rigs.
Personally, I’d rather that the Drumpf Regime do ONE actually useful thing and block CARB’s ability to dictate the whole US market/repeal the 25 year import rule, and allow those of us that don’t live in Emissions Choked Urban Hellscapes to have the diesel manual Hilux/L200/Ranger’s from Mexico and Central/South America that we rural folk actually WANT to drive, but Muskrat and his Rio Tinto/other mining conglomerate goons have too much invested in the Electric Vehicle Scheme at this point, sadly. They orchestrated Dieselgate because they were worried that clean diesel was gonna slow their rare earths mining explosion and market dominance, and they successfully killed the diesel vehicle market for almost all light trucks/passenger cars for vehicles that require an enormous amount of damaging and very emissions heavy mining activities to achieve their zero emissions batteries… not that I’m bitter AF or anything. *rabble rabble rabble*
I have ZERO interest in a fully electric vehicle literally ever, and will never own one. Millions of other Americans feel the same way.
However, a hybrid or EREV? I’ve owned two Escape Hybrid’s in the past, and they were brilliant vehicles. A used EREV Harvester could definitely be a future daily for me.
VAG, for once, needs to listen to their customers and look at the market, and deliver the vehicle the consumers WANT and not worry about appeasing a small, obnoxious group of Greenwashers. They’ve invested far too much money for this to go over like a wet fart at a White Party.
Well that was some paragraphs.
1) The majority of the U.S. population lives in metropolitan areas where electric cars make sense.
2) I doubt that the EV lobby had enough pull to orchestrate dieselgate
3) Most people don’t drive enough daily to make a diesel worthwhile.
4) No argument that the EREV is the one to launch first/at all given the current state of *gestures at everything*.
In the western US, a vehicle designed with off-road capabilities and used as-such must possess internal combustion propulsion. The distances between charging stations amongst interesting trails are too vast.
I love the idea of a battery-only vehicle, but not for an off-road vehicle.
The distance is one thing–but for me the elevation is what really kills BEV adventures. Taking a 6000lbs vehicle up 8000ft absolutely murders the range, right at the time there won’t be any chargers (or many gas stations fwiw… but that’s why energy density begins to matter so much).
You can fill up jerry cans where it’s cheap(er) and take it with you up the hill. That’s why I’m excited for EREVs!
That is why I hope my next vehicle is an EREV. I want the plug in electric to daily drive/run errands and get to the trailhead, then use the range extending ICE if needed on the trail and all the way home to the charger.
“I love the idea of a battery-only vehicle”
I do too but only if I can buy two identical EVs to alternate fully charging one at work for free while I completely run the home on the other.
“Clean diesel” is an oxymoron. I like the sound and torque of diesel trucks, don’t get me wrong. But diesel makes no sense in anything besides commercial vehicles—and even then, it is often debatable. I just checked, and diesel is on average $0.65 more per gallon than gas. Where I live it is closer to $1.00. With rise in popularity of hybrids, as well as basic gasoline ICE vehicles getting more efficient, why would I pay 25% for fuel? If VAG was listening to customers, they would have released a competitive hybrid crossover yesterday.
well said and I would toss in the thousands of additional dollars just to get the Diesel engine in a vehicle over the gas version.
And if the vehicle has a DEF system…scream. Our box trucks at work continuously have DEF system issues.
The duality of diesels, either don’t have a DEF system and fill everyone’s lungs with noxious fumes or do have a DEF system and cost the operator $1,000s. I’ve been to countries with no regulations on diesel emissions, it isn’t pleasant.
You’d rather Trump undo all the clean air gains we’ve collected. No thanks. Not in any universe.
BrInG bAcK lEaDeD GaZoLiNe!!!
I’ll be hitting the road to work, about 18 minutes, and I’ll be taking my daily.
Thanksgiving was last month. Countries who decided subjecting yourself to family twice in less than a month are insane.
As one of your neighbors to the south, I quite agree with you about subjecting myself to family so often. As a compromise, we generally travel to the big gathering in November and spend the December holiday at home. Sometimes a few people will join us for Xmas dinner of New Years eve.
I am so glad we have hit that stage in life that the thanksgiving drive it just a few minutes to the restaurant my MIL want to have thanksgiving brunch at.
Definitely not traveling this weekend though I do have to brave the grocery store this morning.
We did our annual snowbird migration the weekend-before-last. 2006 VW Touareg towing a 2001 Audi S4 Avant caravanning with a 2005 Toyota matrix.
“Smile” for the Matrix still rolling.
That’s 63 years worth of cars!
219k on the Matrix! Just changed the oil and put a nice new set of all seasons on it.
HYBRID! No one has an off-road capable BREV and pure EV’s are tanking…how is this even a discussion?!
YES THIS ↑
We are hosting my in-laws for Thanksgiving this year. We are kind of the middle of everyoen, which means no one has to fly and the longest drive is about 5 hours. This house is going to be a teeming mosh pit of toddlers, kids, and adults and I am SO EXCITED.
I wonder how people in the south host large holiday gatherings. We would need a fridge twice the size if we couldn’t throw stuff in the garage or outside to keep cool.
Even as an introvert who hates housecleaning, I think that sounds wonderful.
Coolers! Although the few times I’ve hosted Thanksgiving or Christmas (with 25 people or so) it was a single day affair with folks bringing casseroles and sides when I mostly just had to do the turkey, ham, bread and a few other small things. Spreading the cooking around made it a bit easier on us but still a lot.
If you are doing all the cooking yourself, I feel for you but sounds like you’re enjoying it all so happy Thanksgiving to you!
This is traditionally how is works in South…everyone one brings their part of dinner (although not in our family anymore evidently). And generally ok weather, so while the older folk get to sit at table, everyone else spreads out including the porch/yard, especially the kids.
Yeah living somewhere that’s 65-70 degrees on Thanksgiving can be nice. If it drops a bit more I can just build an outdoor fire and no one even wants to be inside.
Yeah, there are plenty of adults who can pitch in. And I do love to cook for a crowd. But my god I am dreading the dishes … even with people helping it’s so. many. dishes.
We did the big and thick paper plates at our place and those fancy plastic utensils that look metal. It was still so many dishes with pots, pans, casserole dishes for miles. So many.
A 2nd fridge in the garage.
Right now our porch is “natures refrigerator/natures freezer” depending on the time of day.
It’s certainly where we keep the beer for holidays.
Yes, lol, drinks go on the porch!
If by hitting the road you mean catching a ferry, then yes. It’s a 13.5 mile ferry ride, and the ferry is technically a Washington state highway.
These new Scout vehicles are exactly the the kind of thing I want. I hope they succeed and that I can eventually afford one. Who knows though? Also, I know GM has Corvette but goddammit I wish they would just be like Ford and always have a Camaro. Even if it’s limited production runs.
I guess if you have nothing new to sing, you play the hits? Feels very on-brand for Stellantis.
I bet Scout launches the EREV first.
With my background in manufacturing, I think the Scout EV makes the most sense to launch first. Fewer parts, fewer assembly line operations, less software integration between the gas engine and the EV components. It will still be a hard launch, but there will be fewer things to go wrong. However, launching the EREV makes the most sense when you look at how many EREV orders they have.
Can’t fault your logic. From a sales perspective, EREV almost has to come first though.
I agree the EV makes the most sense from the manufacturing perspective. Add in the fact that the range extender was a “last minute” addition and I can see further delays getting it to market while they work out remaining details. So yeah EV is the one to launch first even if it isn’t the more popular one.
The erev is probably the better product for the market now. I’m not sure how much overlanding buyers will do with them but they are selling that lifestyle. Ev overlanding especially in something that big isn’t exactly there yet. Rivian has been working on it. VW could get EA to help or throw money to Rivian to build out there network further and give discounts to scout owners. But still it’s a large heavy vehicle that will require alot of power not the easiest thing to do in the middle of nowhere.
I really like Scout and they’re in my area, so I hope they’re successful. I have even considered one day trying to get a job with them.
My big concern is that this was supposed to be an EV company, and the EREV thing was kind of a last minute addition. I think that they’ve come up with a way to make it work otherwise they never would have announced it, but I don’t think it will be what everyone expects it to be, and that’s really unfortunate.
For example, I hear constantly that the big benefit of the EREV will be to fix the EV towing issue. The problem Scout faces is that the only thing I’ve heard about towing with the EREV is that the towing capacity will be much lower than the full EV (5000 lbs vs 7500 or so).
I think they’re kind of stuck between what they can actually deliver in the timeline they have vs what consumer expectation has become. Can they build the ideal EREV that most people (including DT) want, where you get all the benefits of EV plus extended range with no compromise? Maybe. But I don’t think that’s the product they currently have in development and they need this to be a success.
Personally, I would rather them focus on the EREV and make it meet customer expectation even if that means delaying a bit, but that likely means pushing out the first sales even further. If they need to get the EV out the door first because that was the one that was more fully-cooked at reveal and they just need to get some sales, that’s fine. Just don’t screw up the EREV.
In an EREV, towing capacity is limited by the generator output (not just the ICE but the generator motor spec) and cooling of the ‘transmission’ components, which have relatively high losses compared to a mechanical transmission. I think Scout buyers are probably more willing to sacrifice some peak towing capacity as they’re more concerned about the severely limited towing range of an EV. More serious towers probably aren’t looking at a Scout (unless they own a boat) and will probably go with the Ramcharger instead.
Agreed–I bet you’ll see 100x as many Go Fast or 4 Wheel pop-up campers on scouts than ones towing.
But also a reminder–everyone here talks about the truck… scout last reported 2/3 of the reservations are for the SUV.
I hope you’re right, but from what I’ve seen on some of the Scout forums there’s still a lot of confusion around the EREV.
On one hand you have the guys who were hoping it would “solve” EV towing range, which as you say it likely will – but not with the full 7500 capacity. Even though it’s a moot point if you never tow or only tow lightweight campers, consumers do get really hung up on the headline number.
On the other hand you have some EV people who thought for some reason this would be a 300 mile EV where at the end of 300 miles you could flip a switch and drive another 150 on gas and solve range anxiety. That’s never going to be the case, but it’s still an issue because there’s a disconnect on what an “EREV” even is.
I think it’s great, and I would love to get my hands on an EREV Traveler, even in the “compromised” state I think it’s currently in. But it has to be successful in the market, and I don’t know that Scout has defined EREV well enough to the customers yet.
Very interesting info, I kinda forgot that people are still very unfamiliar with the concept of an EREV. I also completely forgot to consider that truck people are still truck people lol
Our quality of life went up bigtime when we quit traveling for holidays. Thanksgiving at home with the mother in law is nice. Hot Pot on Christmas day by ourselves is nicer. I’ll visit family when every other family isn’t also out there clogging up the roads.
This is my dream. I am so sick and tired of driving all over the place on holidays now. It just gets harder as the kids get older too for some reason.
Corollary: Opting out of reproduction helped tremendously. Even friends that are excited to be parents confirm it is years of misery. I’ve heard I truly love my kids, but I don’t know that I would have them if given a second chance so many times. Some are every bit as attentive and involved as they can be but the offspring still turn out terrible. Not worth the gamble.
We all die alone anyway. Anyway, happy thanksgiving!
Obviously, the hybrid. How is it even a question? The US isn’t really ready for EV trucks.
I mean since the US is Scout’s primary market and their recent marketing efforts (I see Scout commercials during football pretty regularly) have been focused on playing up the whole made in the USA schtick, the answer from a business perspective is obviously the hybrid. Americans are indifferent towards EVs at best and outright disdain them at worst, mainly because the vast majority of our population is so fucking stupid.
But Scout needs to sell trucks and I think the pendulum has swung about as far away from BEVs as it’ll ever go. There’s also really no market for full BEV pickups outside of Rivians, which truck people don’t even buy. They’re mainly sold to the Whole Foods crowd as lifestyle vehicles…and I don’t say that with any disdain either, I really like Rivian and now that momfluencers are starting to get R1S-es my wife is suddenly interested in one. No way we could afford one at MSRP but a secondhand one at around $60,000? That’s really no different than getting a Sienna or Highlander hybrid.
Anyway I’ve rambled off track. I think it’s worth pissing off the minority that wants BEV off-road style vehicles to sell the range extended hybrid to the masses and that that’s what will happen. Plus with how far out these vehicles somehow still are we’re very likely going to see another huge political swing left that will likely put BEV incentives back on the menu in a lot of places. Delaying the EV and attempting to time it with that will probably drive up interest/make it the cheaper option.
“Americans are indifferent towards EVs at best and outright disdain them at worst, mainly because the vast majority of our population is so fucking stupid”
That I think very much depends on the reasons. Here in PG&E land home to millions of Americans our electricity is about as expensive than running the same vehicle on regular gasoline even at the cheapest residential overnight rates and a LOT more expensive than public charging or peak rates. Right now the cheapest overnight rate is $0.30/kWh which translates to $4/gal gas:
https://www.pge.com/en/account/rate-plans/electric-vehicles.html#ev2adetails
https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=37309&id=49015&id=36932&#tab1
That goes up to as high as $0.62/kWh which is the equivalent of $8.40/gal!
Public chargers can be quite expensive as well:
https://www.autoblog.com/features/the-most-and-least-expensive-states-for-public-ev-charging
Note that even the cheapest public rates in Kansas are $0.26/kWh which is equivalent to $3.45/gal but gasbuddy shows Kansas gas prices at about $2.80/gal. And that’s not factoring charging losses of up to 10%.
Add in charging issues for apartment dwellers, questionable charger availability and charging times while traveling (especially compared to 5 minutes in a gas station), higher initial costs, cold weather range drop, hidden or downplayed higher costs (tire wear) and some indifference to mild disdain is understandable.
Of course the picture changes when electricity is much cheaper, home and/or workplace charging is possible, long trips are a rarity, city driving is the norm, and so on. So if you can make a BEV work for you great! If someone else can’t there may be very good reasons why other than HURR DURR!!
Amen to all that. I honestly believe in BEVs for all as a future goal but it’s all circumstantial in the present. My sister/brother-in-law live in the LA metro area. They’ve been all BEV for years but charge at home with solar and rarely take long trips. I live in the northern Great Basin. Outside of the immediate metro area and the I-80 corridor, the EV charging network is a pathetic joke and this is a very big place. Even on major non-interstate highways (US 50/93/95) reliable charging options can be 100+ miles apart. If you’re on more remote rural routes or off road hunting/fishing away from the major highway network, good luck with all that and keep a sat phone handy. EREVs offer a potentially useful compromise but for now I just can’t get mentally and practically past the ICE option because of where I am and where I want to go. Yes, “fucking stupid” is part of the larger problem particularly where decent charging networks exist, but it’s more complicated than that.
I would absolutely LOVE to go BEV if only to use an identical pair as mobile battery packs to alternate charging one for free at work with while using the other to supply all the electrical needs of the home.
Unfortunately the only realistic option that I know of is a pair of 2013+ LEAFS with a Fermata Energy FE-20 bidirectional charger. I haven’t found any pricing info on this charger even on the company’s website but I’m keeping an eye on it. My feeling though is it would take a LONG time to payback even at PG&E rates.
Given how bad the aerodynamics look, even compared to a Rivian, they reeeaalllyyy need to release the EREV with a decent size battery out first and save the EV with the inevitably huge expensive pack for a little later. Rivian’s R1 & R2 and Ford’s budget pickup (even though it’s a different segment) will be a pincer attack on the EV which won’t have meaningful differentiation, while the EREV only has to compete with the Ramcharger, which I think is manageable.
I think letting the media briefly test an EV prototype around the time of the EREV’s launch will be enough to keep those customers interested until it’s eventual release afterwards.
I almost put a payment down to reserve a scout EREV but after looking at the specs decided it’s not the vehicle for me. I’d like to see a EREV that focused on efficiency and is a bit smaller. A compact truck no larger than a maverick or an escape sized EV or even just a small sedan or hatch. Simple AWD but no off road capability.
Scouts look to be aiming for the jeep and off road crowd. Big fan of the EREV though.
If you haven’t heard of it yet, you might look into a Telo truck. I have a reservation down for one. Hopefully they make it to market. But between Slate, Scout, and Telo, Telo is probably the least likely to succeed because they don’t have deep pockets backing them.
Also, it’s not an EREV, but just an EV.
Generally, the smaller the vehicle, the harder it is to justify EREVing it compared to just giving it a bigger battery. Adding an ICE has a relatively high price floor, plus it has packaging challenges like getting in the way of the front drive motor, the exhaust pipe limiting battery pack width, and getting in the way of an underhood inverter and cooling system. The high cost ends up making it hard to justify over a potentially slightly cheaper EV, a significantly cheaper full hybrid, or a cheaper to produce PHEV.
As a result, there’s very few, if any, EREV compact sedans in the mature Chinese market where that segment is very popular. Instead, most are either BEVs with sufficient range or PHEVs that can use the ICE’s power more effectively to reduce motor specifications & costs. There’s a few EREV options in the compact crossover segment where packaging is less difficult, but they’re still out numbered by PHEVs. China doesn’t really have a comparable pickup truck market.
Going tonight into the teeth of a blizzard towing my parents’ camper back to them. Not exactly thrilled but it’s the only time that works and we should be able to take a slightly longer route to avoid the worst of it until the last hour or so.
Safe travels. And best of luck unclenching your fists and anus upon arrival.
Thanks, hoping it’s just a little ways in the actual bad stuff.
Echo on the safe travels!
Next Spring will work?
Nope, will have hopefully sold this house and moved by then.
This sounds like a Minnesnowta Thanksgiving if I’ve ever heard one (my guess).
We’re being blessed with a balmy 38 degree day for Thanksgiving, which I will gladly take.
Your guess is correct.
Thanksgiving blizzard is very Minnesota/Upstate NY coded, so I figured one or the other.
Yeah, even in Minneapolis white Thanksgivings are fairly rare. My kids will love it at least.
I have a Terra hybrid reservation. I think Scout is doing a really good job of keeping reservation holders engaged, probably better than most but I don’t have many datapoints. So they are hearing a lot from reservation holders.
I think they are worrying about turning away the EV crowd, who seem smaller but *way* more vocal and the impact that will have on brand prestige at launch. If it was just about money now, hybrid all the way. But if you’re trying to catch some of that early Tesla lightning in a bottle (Godspeed) then you need the people willing to shout about it on the internet, and that’s the EV reservation holders.
TMD sans topshot…Whatever we did, we’re sorry!
We’ve made one too many rusty jokes about DT!!!
Ah, that’s better. Pete must have gotten stuck on the train.