I am always excited about new automakers, and the electric car hype boom (plus low interest rates) combined to encourage a bunch of them to launch. The track record of those new startups hasn’t been great, but that hasn’t discouraged new players like Scout and Slate. Both were initially EV-only, though one is starting to diverge.
The Morning Dump is a big fan of Europe’s car association (the ACEA) because it puts out detailed data, which allows us to see how big hybrids are there and how far some brands continue to fall. You can probably guess the brands.
GM is mostly out of the European market, and its recent investment announcements show that this will likely continue. That automaker is still in Brazil, where it has to compete with a suddenly interesting Jeep brand.
Scout’s Question: To Hybrid Or Not To Hybrid
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David has been very excited lately about the Volkswagen-owned truck/SUV subsidiary Scout. He’s into it so much that he put down a deposit on one. The brand initially intended to launch as an EV-only company before suddenly adding an EREV option at the last minute to better serve its most important market (the US of A).
There’s a lot already known about this product, including that it’ll be one of the first VW vehicles to have full Rivian integration. Automotive News just did a deep dive into the company, which is about to build more production-like pre-production models, and this caught my eye:
In September, Scout CEO Scott Keogh said the brand had procured most of the materials, parts and key components for the Traveler and Terra.
Scout has relied on the vast resources of VW Group to secure better pricing and availability on parts. Scout also plans to source batteries from VW Group’s PowerCo subsidiary.
Decker said Scout has not decided whether it’s going to launch production of both models at the same time or which powertrain will be available first.
The time between the announcement of Scout and the actual first vehicles in customers’ hands is annoyingly long (which is an industry-wide problem), so it makes sense to maybe focus on getting one product out faster while holding off on the other. A report last month indicated that the hybrid was going to come first, but this seems to contradict that. Also, Scout said early on that it got way more orders for the EREV version than the EV version, so why do the EV first?
There’s a model for this. Ram straight-up cancelled its EV truck in order to build a range-extended Ram 1500. I sense that it’ll be hybrid first, but who knows. Perhaps Scout is just afraid people will cancel the EV orders if they find out how long it’ll take to come to market.
Hybrids Continue To Dominate In Europe, EVs Not Bad, Tesla Sinks Further
It’s almost getting boring writing about how poorly Tesla has done in Europe since it started facing real competition from China as well as, you know, controversy surrounding the company’s CEO. As of October, the ACEA reports that Tesla has dropped nearly 39% year-to-date and by almost 50% year-over-year this month.
The European car market is up slightly overall, so it’s not entirely a market issue. Is it an EV issue? Not quite, EVs are doing well (now 16.4% of total market share), but not as well as hybrids. This is important because it means that it’s unlikely Europe can meet its ambitious goals, even with more affordable Chinese EVs and a return of EV incentives, as the ACEA notes:
Despite this recent positive momentum, overall volumes remain far below pre-pandemic levels. The battery-electric car market share reached 16.4% YTD, yet it is still below the pace needed at this stage of the transition. Hybrid-electric vehicles lead as the most popular power type choice among buyers, with plug-in hybrids continuing to gain momentum.
It turns out people want affordable cars and a mix of powertrains, pretty much everywhere.
GM Announces More Investments In The United States
With the sale of Vauxhall/Opel, GM has mostly (but not entirely) gotten out of Europe. While China is still a key market for General Motors, there’s been a distinct shift back towards the United States. That’ll continue with the announcement this week of more production here, mostly focused on gas-powered cars, though including some Bolt:
General Motors is reinforcing its leadership in American manufacturing with a new ~$250 million commitment in its Parma Metal Center in Ohio. This will enable production of sheet metal stampings and assemblies to support the multi-billion-dollar product allocations announced at Orion Assembly (MI), Spring Hill Manufacturing (TN), and Fairfax Assembly (KS) earlier this year.
With this new commitment, GM’s total manufacturing investments for 2025 now approach $5.5 billion, underscoring the company’s aggressive commitment to domestic manufacturing and meeting customer demand across its ICE and EV portfolio.
Moon over Parma, bring a Camaro to me tonight.
Another Jeep Exec Crashes Through A Window
Yet again, a Jeep executive has missed their turn and crashed a brand-new Jeep through the window of a press event, this time in Brazil. When will this madness end?
The Morning Dump Was Made While Listening To
The reference to Parma above made me think of the only song I know about the Ohio suburb. It’s “Moon Over Parma” from The Drew Carey Show opening.
The Big Question
Are you hitting the road this Thanksgiving? How long of a drive, and what are you taking?
Photo: Scout
Scout should release either a hybrid, or make it an EV with a range extender.
But they should offer a lower-cost regular-cab, 6-foot(+) box pickup as an option for those who do not want a rear seat or rear doors.
Then I would consider one.
Are you hitting the road this Thanksgiving?
Yes, as hard as I can. The road knows what it did.
Our extensive travel will be to a local restaurant as our kitchen is in the middle of remodeling, so everything is either gone or not accessible, through Christmas and not travelling to the kids places. Oh, and travel will be using the EV mode of our PHEV, so there’s that.
Going camping in Monterey Bay. Gonna be both exciting and depressing for reasons. Never been, so it will be a new experience. I’ve never woken up to the Pacific Ocean waves crashing in the distance.
Going to my sister-in-laws, about 100 miles away. Due to massive construction the trip takes about three hours one way. It’s OK because the alternate route is an old state highway with some nice curves. By the grace of God I still enjoy driving. What are we taking? An Acura TLX and a chocolate bourbon pecan pie.
Hybrid. How is this even a question?
EREV.
See you at dawn, sir!
I’ve owned a VW and family members still do. I’m not sure I would trust a VW company to make the most complicated possible vehicle – an EV combined with a internal combustion engine. They have not shown that they can do a competative EV and their reliablity in the ICE world is terrible. Should be interesting but I would wait for 3 or so years before I touched that vehicle!
The less VW is involved in this vehicle, the better. If the Scout ends up being another VW product dressed in rugged outdoorsy clothes, then it will end up being a huge flop. No one wants that.
Headed to the mountains in Virginia to visit my wife’s family. Sadly, we are not taking my Civic Type R and instead taking her new Pilot Trailsport because it can bring stuff home with us.
I’m just driving about 3 hours to my sisters and back the day of so not too bad.
For Scout I think the EREV is the one to do, nothing in the market like it yet. The Jeep 4xe is nowhere near it, Bronco doesn’t offer any option for it, and obviously it’s the more popular reservation so seems like a no brainer.
I think the VW connection might scare off more than few early adopters of either option, but certainly the Erev covers for the stigma of having to figure out how to find a place to gain energy.
Smart money would be to make the scout with all 4 versions of forward propulsion. But I imagine VW would be hard pressed to not make a Diesel Scout, and I cannot think of a suitable VAG gasser for the size and type of vehicle this will be. Maybe a Mahindra?
Got the 92 F-250 loaded up with a leaf mulcher and log splitter heading 140 miles to my Mom’s place. It’s supposed to rain tomorrow and the wipers move slowly and groan loudly. Will give it a fresh Rain X treatment today. Son will be in the 99 XJ with the dog and his car detailing stuff. Wife and girls in my Mom’s 2020 RAV-4 hybrid (she’s not using it, recovering from a knee operation), the only vehicle unlikely to break down on this trip.
“Are you hitting the road this Thanksgiving?”
Thanksgiving was last month.
/Canada
We have 22(!) people planned this year and I split the cooking with my mom, the next town over. Turkey has been sectioned because I couldn’t fit it on one half-sheet tray. I made the pie crusts and now they go to my mom, where she gives me some of the groceries for my stuffing. It’s a fun choreographed dance we do to make the best use of limited resources.
You better hope there won’t be a chip shortage or your whole supply chain will fail. /s
Making a 3.5 hour drive back to my parents for the holiday. Sadly my new to me Evo is not going to be the vehicle making the trip as I have uncovered still more problems with it. It will be parked at home awaiting tie rod ends plus alignment, and an intake manifold gasket while we take my fiance’s Trailblazer to Thanksgiving.
I’m not all that interested in Scout personally, given that a complex, new EV/EREV SUV built by VW isn’t on my wish list (I’ve owned a few and don’t plan to have any more, having learned my expensive lesson over and over again). Not sure exactly what ‘Rivian integration’ means… I gather VWs software is/was a kludgy PITA, so if they’re using Rivian’s instead, fine. Didn’t Rivian get Epic Games to provide animation, etc… for their GUI? I’m sure I read about that somewhere, and I could think of fewer worse ways to spend money and compute cycles, since on-screen animations annoy the fu*k out of me: what are they for? What actual/useful purpose do they serve?
I wonder if Scout will have the same cheap white nylon power window brackets that have plagued so many years of VWs? You know, the ones that cause the window glass to drop into the door a couple months after the warranty expires…
The only EVs that MIGHT be buyable eventually that interest me atm are Hyundai’s Inster/Casper, though I doubt they’ll come to America, and even if they do, they probably won’t be as cheap as I’d like (plus, there’s Hyundai’s questionable practice of very expensive parts/repairs/service on its EVs), and Rivian’s R3/3X, which I really like, but will almost surely cost more than I can rationalize spending.
Yes, I’m grumpy. So what? 😉
Nope. Staying at home.
The market has spoken. Launch the EREV first and go for the EV later. Rivian has already been available for the EV version. Unless someone wants the EV Scout. Which I’m guessing will be a badge engineered R1S, with the Rivian logo scribbled out and a Scout badge hot glued into place.
The US market will increasingly become a niche. Compete on the global arena or face irrelevancy.
The US market is, and will continue to be for the foreseeable future, the most important one for large trucks though.
As usual, Jeep has no new ideas so just plays the hits.
If GM has been unable to compete on a global scale, what are their chances of remaining relevant in the USA?
Trucks. A uniquely American product.
Ford and Stellantis?
So, a lowered bar and tariffs to keep competition at bay?
That appears to be the theory. It worked so well in the past, I cannot see how it could possibly be detrimental. Also a yuge money raising opportunity like nobodies has ever seen before!
Re: Scout not knowing if Hybrid is correct. Seriously Scott Keogh? 80% or more of deposits for the EREV! Not to mention the absolutely overwhelming market trends in favor of Hybrids, PHEVs and EREVs. If you are the CEO of a new brand backed by a mega-conglomerate with large amounts of procurement and production forecasting on the line and you cannot see the absolute mountain of evidence in front of you screaming for an obvious product decision, you should be fired immediately.
I don’t think it’s that easy. Last reported reservation breakdown showed a similar split of SUV/Truck reservations to EREV/BEV reservations. Does that mean they should delay/cut the truck?
Short answer: Yes, cut the truck.
So then what do you have left?
I don’t think producing a single vehicle in a highly competitive space is a way to build a new brand. Yes, if you’re trying to maximize sales volume immediately, cutting everything except the EREV SUV is logical. But that surely doesn’t merit trying to build a new factory, a new brand, and so on?
VAG cash issues complicate things, but I think the reason why it’s a difficult decision is that they are willing to burn capital to build image, making the truck and the BEV products important, maybe more important than sales numbers right now.
EREVs have an entire extra ICE powertrain to manage, which is not trivial. There may be risk factors like the engine getting delayed or some other issues that VAG’s experience really should prevent, but it’s not guaranteed to. So while I agree the EREV is a better product for the current market, it’s also the harder one to make.
Came into the comments to find this. 20+ years ago, our college hybrid vehicle team was able to get the EV running with “relative” ease. Adding in the ICE spinning an alternator (it was a true series-hybrid now called EREV), was a controls nightmare. I hope the collective knowledge (plus actual experienced people vs. college kids) it’s easier.
Getting the EV to market first starts generating revenue (insert gif about revenue not mattering to startups) while working on the more complicated aspects of an EREV.
Clearly facetious trying to keep the 20% of the rest of the cake too. By the time is ships and they announce indefinite delays for the BEV, no one will that powertrain. Can’t blame them though!
Driving about an hour to my brother’s house, where he and his wife are hosting a major holiday meal for the first time. This is normally our burden for basically all holidays, so I’m pretty fucking stoked to just show up and enjoy. It’ll be a full house (about 16 people) but honestly, should be a really nice time. He and his wife can both cook, they’ve taken our notes (we take elevating Thanksgiving meal very seriously) and I trust them to pull it off.
I will be driving the family down in my Chrysler van, because well, that’s what the van is obviously for.
What do you do for turkey? I really wanted to do a braised turkey thigh stew this year, but I was overruled. I also couldn’t find sectioned turkeys. I’ll have to stock up after Thursday when they’ll hopefully be butchering the leftover birds and put some in deep freeze for next year.
We simmer together a bunch of seasonings, stock, onions, etc into a brine on the Wednesday morning. Into a 5 gallon Gatorade jug (the perfect size for a large turkey) goes the Turkey (fresh – no thawing needed) the cooled off brine, and ice. It sits in the brine until it’s removed Thanksgiving morning, patted dry and brought closer to room temperature, cover the sucker in canola oil, and roast it for the first half hour on a high heat (don’t remember the temp on hand) and then reduce the heat to lower for the remainder of the time. Probe placement in the thickest part of the breast is the hardest thing to pull off. Remove the sucker around 148 degrees (the surrounding turkey in other areas is way hotter and will bring the breast up past 160 while it’s sitting for about half an hour to 45 minutes. Then it’s time to whip up a gravy in the pan, whilst jamming a million other things in and out of the oven. We’ve been known to heat 1-2 things up in my parents oven half a mile away to limit the space burden on our own lol.
It’s always smart, if you have the time and inclination to cook up as many cheap Thanksgiving turkeys as you can. They’re so so damn cheap.
Elevated classics over reimaginings, sounds like, then! I’ve gotten pretty good at cooking turkeys but at the end of the day, it’s sliced turkey… I look forward to cooking with the leftovers so I wanted to just skip step one.
But I will be stocking up on turkeys because there are a lot of ideas I want to try and I’m getting tired of chicken for cheap protein.
If you want to try something new, try a Turkey Wellington. I’ve made a couple more or less like this recipe. Both Jamie Oliver and Gordon Ramsay have popular versions too. Was a big hit. One tip if you try it, make the stuffing well ahead of time to give it plenty of time to cool off. So much easier to work with when the stuffing is cooled.
Yup – I will be braving the roads of SW FL for the ~5mi drive to my friend’s place where our annual “Maine Expat Thanksgiving Gathering” will take place. About 15 of us, every year for Thanksgiving, most years for Christmas dinner too. Potluck, I usually bring scratch-made fancy Mac ‘n Cheese for Thanksgiving, and baked rigatoni at Christmas. A good time is had by all.
As for the Scout, the hybrid is the no-brainer to me.
Ex-pat is appropriate since FL is a foreign land. Has the Gov opted for FL passports for ID yet? Dont leave home without it
Meh, nowhere is perfect, and Tallahassee is a long, long way from where I live. The politics in Florida offend me, but they don’t actually affect me much at all.
If only they had a Hybrid to launch or a Plug-In Hybrid, but unfortunately they don’t, they only have an extended range EV. Either way it is a crap shoot. Launch EV only and watch the majority of reservation holders get annoyed. Launch the EREV first and the EV fan boys will cry foul, and correctly spout how bad EREVs are. Of course they will also spout, incorrectly, how people will rarely plug them in.
Are you hitting the road this Thanksgiving? How long of a drive, and what are you taking?
Oh boy, yes. Oakland to Palm Springs (about 500 miles each way), the first major trip/test after having swapped the engine and transmission in my E39, bumping it from a 525iT to a 530iT. I’ve already put about 1,300 miles on it locally post-swap, so I’m not too anxious, but the camshaft position sensor (which of course I should have, but didn’t, replaced when the engine was out of the car) going out last week has shaken my confidence just a teensy bit. But it’ll be fine, right?
You’ll be fine. To ensure it, make sure whatever road service membership you have is paid up. Like having spares in the trunk, whatever you have will never, ever fail.
Never. Family knows if they want the best eating, they come to me.
I’m that person who buys turkeys like nuts around Thanksgiving. Excluding skin, it’s 42% meat by weight, so you get a lot of inexpensive lean protein (around $1.20/lb using that 42%). Roast turkey. Turkey sandwiches (incl. shredded BBQ turkey). Turkey tacos. Turkey soup. Turkey pot pie, turkey burritos… and so on, and so forth.
As a result, I usually cook at least four turkeys a year. Sometimes as many as six. Usually one or two sit in the freezer and break them out later in the year.
So I have a LOT of practice cooking turkeys. So they are always amazing.
Then I also make the best sides. Plus the best desserts. So family comes to me.
What’s your secret? Brine? Dry or wet? Spatchcocked? Wife is on a dry brine kick now, spatchcocked at the butcher shop, then uses America’s Home Test Kitchen recipe with the olive oil puree under the skin. Will start preparing today.
Long roast at 200-205F. Take it out at 161-162F.
Want to keep moisture in the bird? Prevent it from phase changing to steam.
You take it out at 161-162F for two reasons. The main reason is it takes a while to make a proper gravy. So you’ve already butchered the bird, put all the extras in the pot to get the gravy started, and can start carving it up. Just keep it covered in the oven, sliced up, at like 180F.
Gravy done? Great. Turkey is certainly 165+, and ready to serve.
Even THREE DAYS LATER the breast meat STILL is moist!
— ——
The problem is most people cook turkey only once a year. They’ve no practice, and haven’t had time to learn how to really nail it. The above is the result of what you learn fast when you make four in six weeks and are eating 3.25 of them entirely by yourself — it BETTER be good!
At one time I worked for a company whose owner also owned a poultry farm. Every holiday all the employees got fresh turkeys. I think he even made up holidays to hand them out on (labour day turkeys were pretty funny). So yes, lots of practice too. Low and slow does the job, but I even figured out how to make turkey pepperonis and jerky. Alas, that was so long ago I don’t remember much of those recipes.
The practice is key.
Most people are bad at turkey because they get one shot a year.
Meanwhile they’ll make chicken and pork likely twice each every week.
Yes.
About 32 miles The Valley to my wife’s aunt’s house.
Tiny Lexus Hybrid, with the turkey, dressing, and homemade cranberry sauce (not from cans).
Great that some people want EVs and buy them.
But more people want PHEVs Hybrids, EREVs. So, respond to the market forces if you want to survive.
Cranberry sauce is one thing.
Could I interest you in a smooth, creamy, cranberry curd tart pie? Paired with a bit of stiff cream piped along the edge, and a small scoop of vanilla ice cream?
I live in very much a cranberry state, and a friend’s father operated a cranberry bog. I’m still to find a better use for cranberries than that pie recipe. Which people devour.
If you’re adventurous and know how to make double-layer cheesecake desserts, you can also do one with cheesecake on the bottom, with the cran pie layer on top.
Well, the cranberries are frozen, so not all that homemade, I guess.
I am not really a fan of even the best turkey (I come from a holiday ham/pork roast sort of family), but I would eat that cranberry tart until I explode! I wouldn’t even sully it with ice cream.
My grandmother used to make your cheesecake combo. She was not a great cook (severe lack of both imagination and willingness to employ anything spicier than butter in fine Old New England tradition), but an absolutely gifted baker.
Assume MA or RI? We are an old ME family.
MA, Boston area, despite high-horsepower RWD everything,
Do keep a can of ye olde Maine B&M Brown Bread around though!
Good stuff, that!
I preferred modest powered RWD in the snow, but ultimately that’s just a matter of foot position, LOL. And the correct tires.
Hybrid first, for the sole reason of volume.
There will be a larger market for it, and since you are less constrained on battery production capacity, you can serve that larger market much more easily.
Let it get traction in the marketplace, work out any kinks, then offer the BEV.
Pure business decision that also will give most customers want they want.
Battery production capacity isn’t really an issue at this point like it was before 2022, now battery prices are limited by cell prices. Cell prices will come down with the scaling of the entire EV market, which Scout won’t be a huge part of for a while.
No, it still can be.
Toyota is actually capacity constrained on battery production, which is why some of their hybrids — RAV4 Prime and Sienna PHEV in particular — are so hard to get and never sell at a discount, if not a premium.
Toyota’s even said it publicly. Their whole problem is trying to divide capacity between traditional and PHEVs, so they tend to produce more traditional hybrids so they can sell more vehicles.
I don’t fully believe Toyota’s claims; they seem to have plenty of battery capacity to put towards thr far bigger packs in the bZ/bZ4X and new C-HR. The Sienna is a FHEV in the US market so it has a small battery, I think they’re intentionally limiting supply to push more people into more profitable crossovers. I think Toyota simply didn’t want to make many of the RAV4 Prime for whatever reason (profitability, undercuts Lexus, non-battery supply chain limitations?), but with 4 trim levels and a potentially different design I think that’ll change this generation. After the 100% hybridization of the RAV4 and Camry, any further increase in battery supply should easily be able to go into PHEVs.
I’m going to ‘hybrid’ a guess. When/if the VW PowerCo plant in Ontario is finally in production, there will be enough VW batteries to go around since VW’s other EVs have seen such underwhelming sales in NA. It looks like Scout’s launch timing will probably coincide with this too.