Several years ago, Ford jumped out to an early lead in the battle to challenge Tesla for the battery electric vehicle sales crown in the US market. But then, when consumers realized electric trucks turned out to be less than ideal for towing, and the sales inflection point failed to materialize, Dearborn started delaying and cancelling new programs. Meanwhile, Hyundai Motor Group (HMG) began launching a range of truly impressive EVs that continues to expand, and brought the group to the number two sales slot behind Tesla for 2024. The latest addition to the HMG lineup is the three-row Ioniq 9, and Hyundai brought us to Savannah, Georgia to tour the new factory that builds it and to drive the SUV for the first time.
The market for three-row electric SUVs is still quite limited, with only about eight offerings available outside of China and most of those being premium models.
There’s the Cadillac Vistiq and Escalade IQ, Volvo EX90, Mercedes-Benz EQS SUV, Rivian R1S, Tesla Model X and of course the Ioniq 9’s sibling, the Kia EV9. That’s this:
Apart from the gargantuan Escalade, they are mostly pretty similar in size at around 200-inches long.
The EV9 and Ioniq 9 both use the same core e-GMP architecture and share most of their technology, but they are more than just badge engineered siblings. As with other Hyundai and Kia models, these two have no shared bodywork or major interior elements or at least nothing that looks the same. It’s probable that they have shared seat structures and certainly the non-customer facing bits behind the dashboard.
Here’s the Kia EV9:
And here’s the new Hyundai Ioniq 9:
The Ioniq 9 has a 1.2-inch longer wheelbase at 123.2-inches and 1.8-inches more in overall length. Inside, there is about 4.7 cubic feet of additional passenger volume, most of which can be felt in that third row. At 5,507-lbs, the base Ioniq 9 is about 450-lbs heftier than the Kia, but much of that is likely attributable to the fact that Hyundai isn’t offering a smaller base battery configuration. All Ioniq 9s get the same 110-kWh battery, while the EV9 Light gets a smaller, more affordable 76.1-kWh unit, with a 99.8-kWh energy store on other trim levels. (Hyundai is considered the more premium brand of the two, after all).
Fraternal Twins
Despite their shared DNA and general form factor, car buyers will have no trouble at all distinguishing the Ioniq 9 from the EV9. The Kia’s design language has a very distinctive vibe to it, being both far more boxy and in many respects more bold looking. Apart from some other Kia EVs like the EV3 and EV5, the EV9 doesn’t really look like anything else on the road with its bold, boxy style.
On the other side of the family, the Ioniq 9 has a much sleeker, aero-shaped profile that, like Hyundai’s other EVs, incorporates the parametric pixel elements. The body has a drag coefficient of just 0.267, a very impressive number for an SUV. The overall front end is very rounded, with a full-width light bar made up of the same type of square pixels we first saw on the Ioniq 5. During the day, only the outer portion of the bar lights up, but at night, the full width is illuminated.
The lower portion of the fascia also includes pixel lights in a 2×6 vertical array for the headlamps in the corners with additional smaller accent lights just inboard. Connecting the lighting elements is what at first appears to be a solid black bar. However, a closer look reveals that there is a clear covering over a black area made up of embossed pixels across the full width, similar to the bumper area of the Ioniq 5 XRT.
Here’s a look at the lighting, per Modern.Motoring’s YouTube channel:
In profile, the roofline tapers down toward the back of the Ioniq 9 and also tapers inward slightly on the side, giving a slightly boat-tail effect. One of the most unique elements of the whole design is the plastic inserts in the top portion of the wheel arches.
The Ioniq 9 is offered in five trim levels: S, SE, SEL, Limited, and Calligraphy. On the S and SE, the wheel arches and inserts are black. On the Calligraphy, they are all body color. However on the SEL and Limited, the arches are black with the inserts in body color. It’s certainly a distinctive look that might not appeal to some, but it’s probably not offensive enough to be a deal killer for most people.
The Living Space
The main reason for buying a three-row crossover like the Ioniq 9 is to haul people around, and the Ioniq 9 delivers on this front. All trims get an eight-way power driver’s with adjustable lumbar support, and everything but the base S model gets the same for the front passenger. All trims get heated front seats as standard to help keep your backside warm on cold winter mornings. The SEL and up also get ventilated front seats.
Stepping up to the Limited or Calligraphy swaps out the second row bench for captain’s chairs that are also heated and ventilated. Those top two trims also get relaxation seats in the first two rows that feature an ottoman that extends from below so you can kick back and take a quick power nap while adding power to the battery on a road trip or just waiting to pick up the kiddos after school.
The third row is often the most challenging to implement in anything but a giant full-size SUV. The Volvo EX90, Mercedes EQS and Rivian R1S all have a third row, but the reality is none of those vehicles are suitable for adults over about five-foot-two-inches due to minimal head and leg room.
I can fit into the back row of the Kia EV9, but I wouldn’t want to spend more than about 30 minutes in there. I actually drove the Vistiq just two days before the Ioniq 9, and both are by far the roomiest of this group for third-row passengers. My five-foot-ten-inch frame with a long torso fits quite comfortably in the Ioniq 9 with some headroom to spare and sufficient legroom with the second row adjusted, so an adult can sit there as well.
I wouldn’t want to sit there for a cross country road trip, but I wouldn’t whine much about spending an hour or two back there. So far the only three-row EV I’ve tried with a better seat in the back is the VW ID Buzz, and NHTSA has declared that one to be too roomy for just two seat belts. Thus VW is adding some sort of plastic trim divider so a third person can sit there.
The front seats in the Calligraphy trim we drove also featured Hyundai’s Ergo Motion seats. This uses a series of air bladders much like the massaging seats in many other vehicles, but they can automatically adjust to help improve the driver’s posture based on how long they have been driving. The seats were very comfortable and also provided much better lateral support than the seats in the Vistiq.
Command Central
One of the first details I noticed on climbing in is that Hyundai uses the same column stalk as the EV9 for shifting the transmission and starting the vehicle. The thick stalk is fixed in place, and the start-stop button is at the inboard end near the steering column just as in the Kia. The location is a bit awkward and requires reaching under the steering wheel and pressing the button with the right thumb. It’s not a deal breaker, but it makes a good case for HMG to move towards eliminating the on/off switch entirely as most EV-only automakers and GM are doing now.
The curved display is the same one that is in most current Hyundai vehicles, with dual 12.3-inch screens, one for the cluster and the one to the right for the infotainment. Hyundai’s system is relatively simple to use and responsive and features support for wireless CarPlay and Android Auto.
One of the big complaints of the early e-GMP-platform models was poor route planning capability in the native navigation system. We didn’t really get a chance to play with that as we were using Google Maps for the drive route, but HMG has listened and done a lot of work to improve the finding of charging stations along the route including focusing on those that are ahead of you rather than those you’ve already passed. Also, it’s worth noting that Hyundai’s latest infotainment system allows Hyundai EV owners to manually precondition the battery pack for fast charging should they wish to navigate on Waze or Google Maps.
The Ioniq 9 is also among the first HMG models to get Plug&Charge capability. Owners can set up a payment option in the BlueLink app and then just plug into a charger to automatically authenticate and bill your payment system. Initially it works with EVGo and Chargepoint, with more networks to be added soon.
Thankfully, Hyundai has also been listening to customers when it comes to interior functions and maintaining a reasonable balance of physical and touch controls. There are round knobs for volume, tuning and temperature controls on the panel below the touchscreen, along with a row of buttons to take you directly to functions like map, search, media, next track, seek and settings. The vent controls are also completely manual with a tab in the center of each register, just as it should be.
An ‘Island’ So The Wireless Charging Actually — You Know — Works
The center console features a deep storage bin, cup holders, drive mode buttons and a standard wireless charging pad. An interesting detail of all HMG charging pads is that they have an “island” in the middle. Since most modern smartphones have some sort of hump on the back for all the cameras, they often don’t sit flat on charging pads. With only a couple of points of contact, they are more likely to slide around on the pad and stop charging while driving. The Hyundai island provides a larger contact area in the center of the phone, and I’ve found it to do a much better job of retaining the phone where it will charge than most other vehicle brands.
Like the Ioniq 5, the center console of the 9 slides back and forth allowing for a more open feeling in the front and easier access to the climate controls and USB-C ports for second row occupants. Speaking of USB-C ports, there are three of them on the panel ahead of the console including one that provides 100 watts of power but you’ll have to use a special heavy duty cable to get that much power. As with the other e-GMP vehicles, the Ioniq 9 has vehicle-to-load capabilities with both AC ports in the rear cargo area and the ability to get power out through the charging port via an adapter.
Battery Size And Horsepower
As mentioned above, Hyundai opted to forgo a smaller and thus cheaper battery option for the Ioniq 9, and given the target audience, that’s probably a wise choice. Buyers of a family hauler will probably always want at least 300 miles of range and all variants of the Ioniq 9 are expected to deliver that from a 110.3-kWh (gross, Hyundai says usable capacity is about 94% of that which would be about 103.6-kWh).
The batteries for the Ioniq 9 are currently being supplied from an SK On plant in Hungary, but over the next few months, that will transition to the new Hyundai-SK joint venture battery factory in Bartow County, Georgia, just northwest of Atlanta. That plant will have an annual capacity of 35 GWh, enough for more than 335,000 battery packs like the kind used in the Ioniq 9 every year.
Hyundai and LG Energy Solutions also have a second joint-venture battery plant that is under construction adjacent to the Hyundai Motor Group Metaplant outside of Savannah. That plant will supply batteries for the Ioniq 5 and potentially other future models.
Speaking of the Metaplant, it began low volume production of the Ioniq 5 last September, and is currently ramping up production of both the 5 and 9 before adding additional models for Hyundai, Kia and Genesis. While it was originally intended to have a capacity of 300,000 vehicles a year, last year HMG announced plans to expand it to 500,000 unit capacity.
The base RWD configuration has the same single motor, 215-hp, 258 lb-ft output as the EV9. The SE and SEL trims add a front motor and bump total output to 303-hp and 446 lb-ft which is 76-hp less than the dual motor EV9. However, stepping up to the Limited or Calligraphy takes the Ioniq 9 to 422-hp and 516 lb-ft. Hyundai claims a 0-60 mph time of 4.9 seconds with the performance setup, but during our time with the car, my co-driver recorded a 4.67-sec sprint on his Racebox unit.
The base RWD setup falls in the mid-nine-second range which feels leisurely by modern standards, but it still quick enough to easily merge onto freeways although you’ll need to be a bit more careful with passing on two-lane rural roads. The SE/SEL spec is in the 6.5-second range which should be the sweet spot for most buyers.
The suspension setup of the Ioniq 9 is pretty basic with MacPherson struts up front and a five-link arrangement in the rear. There are steel coil springs all around and conventional dampers. But when executed and tuned right, the basics can certainly work.
How Does It Drive?
We headed out from our hotel in Savannah to visit the Metaplant in Ellabell, about 30 miles away. Much of this segment was highway driving with morning rush hour on I-16. Three-row utilities like the Ioniq 9 and its aforementioned competitors provide a more reasonable compromise between people hauling ability and manageable size for navigating urban traffic than the full-size body-on-frame behemoths like a Tahoe or Expedition. It still takes some care to get around, but it is notably easier.
Once onto the interstate, I activated the adaptive cruise control and Hyundai’s highway drive assist (HDA) system. As of yet, HMG hasn’t launched a hands-off system like Super Cruise in North America, but among the hands-on systems, HDA is one of the best. It does a nice job of tracking the center of the lane and when passing a large truck, it will nudge over toward the opposite side of the lane for a bit of extra clearance. It doesn’t drive for you, but it helps ensure that your lane position is optimized. Despite not being a hands-off system, Hyundai does include an infrared driver monitor camera that will alert the driver if it detects they aren’t watching the road or may be getting drowsy.
After our factory tour, we headed back out and spent time on some rural Georgia roads where the Ioniq 9 showed off its performance capabilities. Despite what might be considered a relatively low-rent suspension layout, this big car felt surprisingly nimble. The legacy of now retired HMG development chief, Albert Biermann, clearly lives on.
Going through curves, the big EV felt stable and the steering felt surprisingly good, with nice weighting and some feedback about what was going on at the tire-road interface.
Despite the absence of fancy electronic dampers or any sort of semi-active suspension, the ride quality remained excellent with great body control over a wide range of road surfaces. At one stage of the drive, we ventured off into the Savannah National Wildlife Refuge in search of good photography locations beyond abandoned gas stations. The gravel road through the refuge had a fair share of potholes, bumps and rumbly bits but the 21-inch wheel and tire package on the Calligraphy trim we drove had no problem dealing with it.
Our test unit had the standard five-spoke 21s with 285/45R21 tires, and those wheels were attractive enough, but the turbine wheels that come with the Calligraphy Design package are real standouts. Either way, the tires are lined with a sound absorbing foam that helps absorb some of the rumble from different road surfaces. In the absence of engine noise that masks a lot of other issues, EVs have more work to do to suppress other unpleasant audible effects.
Further enhancing the feeling of quiet was an active road noise cancellation system that utilizes accelerometers on the chassis to provide a feed forward signal about what is happening down below and combined with microphones, it calculates opposite sound waves to cancel the noise before it can reach your ears. The Vistiq has a similar system but it also has a more sophisticated suspension. Despite lacking smart suspension, the Hyundai system seemed to work just as well.
With the high-output motor setup, accelerating from speeds just below the limit to velocities well above was absolutely effortless. While the Ioniq 9 isn’t quite as rapid as the Cadillac Vistiq I drove 48 hours earlier, it demonstrates that pretty much all modern EVs have reached a point where acceleration is way more than adequate and the continued race to make them quicker is really quite pointless.
HMG EVs also have very good motor control and regenerative braking that is very easy to modulate, even in the most aggressive i-pedal max setting. One of the annoyances of prior HMG EVs was that the regenerative braking would always reset back to minimum after each key cycle. If I select a stronger regen, I just want it to stay there until I decide to change it to something else. Other automakers retain whatever the driver selects, and for 2026, so does the Ioniq 9 so I don’t have to go back and reselect one-pedal driving every time I get in the car.
Charging
All of HMGs electric vehicles for sale in North America are in the process of transitioning from a CCS to an NACS/SAE J3400 charging port. The Ioniq 5 was first, followed by the 9, EV6 and 9 GV70 and the rest. That means they can be charged at Tesla Supercharger stations as well as Ionna without an adapter. Other charging networks are beginning to install J3400 charging cables as well. In the frunk of the Ioniq 9 are three cases, one for the tire mobility kit, one with the home charging cable and the last with 2 adapters, one for connecting a CCS cable to the NACS port and the other to plug in a J1772 cable if you already have a charger at home.
We didn’t get a chance to do any charging with the Ioniq 9, but as usual with 800V e-GMP vehicles it will be among the fastest available in North America. From an 800V charger at Ionna, EVGo or Electrify America, the Ioniq 9 will accept about 240-kW and should charge from 10-80% in about 24 minutes. On a V3 Supercharger at 500V it will take about 41 minutes. Unfortunately, the charge port door is on the right, rear corner which means you’ll have to park on the “wrong” side of the Supercharger with its very short cables.
Ionna is the joint venture of eight automakers including Hyundai and Kia that has recently started opening DC fast charging stations. As of writing this there are currently 14 Ionna stations open with 400-kW chargers and CCS and NACS cables on each charger. That number is expected to top 100 before the end of the year.
How Much?
Let’s be frank, EVs aren’t affordable enough yet for most people, although the situation is getting better. You can get a Chevy Equinox EV with nearly 320 miles of range starting at $35,000 delivered and a Hyundai Kona EV with 200 miles of range for about $600 less. The Ioniq 9 S RWD starts at $60,595 delivered and has 335 miles of range. That’s about $4,000 more than the starting price of an EV9, but the Hyundai only has the larger battery and 105 miles of additional range. Compared to the Light Long Range EV9, the Hyundai is about $1,000 cheaper.
Stepping up to an AWD SE adds $3,800 and the SEL which is probably the sweet spot is another $3,600. The Calligraphy trim we drove with the fabulous Ionosphere green pearl paint, came to a grand total of $76,590. Because all Ioniq 9s for North America are assembled in Georgia and the batteries meet the content requirements, they are eligible for the full $7,500 federal tax credit for as long as the Republicans in congress allow that to remain a thing.
The Ioniq 9 isn’t quite as luxurious as a Cadillac, Volvo or Mercedes-Benz, but it turns out to be a great place to spend time on the road. Interestingly, the price of a loaded Ioniq 9 Caligraphy Design comes to $79,090 delivered. That’s exactly the same price to the dollar as a Vistiq. The Hyundai charges faster, already includes a NACS charging port ,and comes bundled with adapters. Plus it has a more distinctive design and equally useful third row — something that can’t be said for the Volvo or Mercedes. The Cadillac is more powerful and has a very good hands-free driving assist that is improving on a regular basis. If you can forgo that and real leather and wood, the Ioniq 9 is certainly a better value than the others.
It’s too early to tell just how successful the Ioniq 9 will be in the market. Supplies are likely to be constrained for at least a few months as the new factory continues to ramp up so we won’t really have a good idea until later in the year. But it is built in the US, which means it will avoid much of the tariff hit. If it does well, it will demonstrate a real missed opportunity for Ford, which squandered an early entry into the market — something that will now likely take several years to make up. With its impressive range and fast charging, the Ioniq 9 should absolutely be on the shopping list for those that can afford a $60,000 to $70,000 three-row SUV even if they were considering something from a more luxury oriented brand. At the very least, it’s an excellent stop-gap until the inevitable Genesis based on this architecture arrives to take on the luxury brands head on.
TIL learned Hyundai is “the more premium brand”. *The more you know* gif
The proportions are a little weird to me, it looks like an old Saab 9-5 Wagon but…wrong? I dunno I can’t put my finger on what’s off to me.
I leased an Ionic5 for 2 years because I know the EV tech is changing so quickly. But I have to say this car has been downright amazing. The range is fantastic, the interior is the right balance of screen and physical buttons, performance is stellar, and the overall look is great. Hyundai may have some issues with the ICE engines but this car has been fantastic.
Best value and $76,000? This is why EVs don’t click for me yet. I could buy 2 Palisades. Or 1 Palisade and over 11,000 gallons of gas.
Looks-wise, I’d lump this in with the Grand Wagoneer as vehicles that have much better looking alternatives in their price bracket.
We desperately need to bring back the V6 Mustang as a pricing baseline for everything. 🙂
A loaded palisade is north of 50k without any tax break available, so more like a 10-15k delta for apples:apples. Still a big gap, but the real savings is can be found by not getting into a situation where you are seriously shopping 3 row vehicles in the first place… A whole fleet of Palisades a lifetimes supply of gas them would cost a fraction of a single Ionic 9 full of kids over 20 years.
sigh … so true …
It’s a shame it’s so hideous. I can’t get with the practically triangular front doors.
I had to look up a picture of the wheel arches and they are nearly BZ4X bad. Hopefully they learn from Toyota and only offer the body color panels.
I don’t much care about this car, I am not at all the person this would sell to. However, I got a strong Volvo V70/XC70 vibe off the rear 3/4 on this thing.
I think this goes hard on the box style and I’m totally OK with that. The rest? Meh.
I do like that green paintjob however. More of those please! Anything but more MFing black, white and gray cars!
Why did you have to point that out? Its all I see now
Man, the monthly payment on $70k is likely over $1000. I could never accept that. Not for this thing.
Absolutely fucking not. A basic On/off switch should be mandatory. Just check out the frustrations Aging Wheels has had with his Silverado EV not shutting off like it should, and the “manual” shut-off button on the touch screen disappearing.
I want an on/off switch on the keyfob for my Bolt, so I can sleep in the car without it constantly talking to the car and running its little battery down. Sometimes I’ll disassemble the key and take the battery out for the night. Losing the on/off switch for the whole car would be terrible- would I not be able to even sit in the car with it off, and running the traction battery down the whole time? If I want to sleep in the car, would I have to chuck the key out the window and retrieve it in the morning to avoid the car staying on all night, and hope I don’t want to roll up the window?
After driving my Tesla for several months, it is a no brainer to eliminate the switch. Tesla eliminates so many very seemingly minor things that you don’t notice until you go back to a regular car – even just after a week of driving. Things like thinking about locking the car as you walk away, unlocking as you get close to it, turning the car on or off, etc. I jump back into our Atlas on the weekends sometimes and when I pull into the driveway the engine shuts off due to the auto shutoff when stopped/parked and I have forgotten to hit the physical switch to shut the car off. Same with forgetting to lock/unlock it. You lose those habits quickly and then you realize you shouldn’t be bothered by them in the first place – smart design eliminates the need to perform these basic tasks and the whole driving experience is better without them on a daily driver.
Automated features are great until they don’t work like they’re supposed to. Tesla is the worst offender when it comes to that. Like this:
https://mashable.com/article/tesla-stranded-phone-keys
The generation of car thieves that don’t know how to insert and turn a key is rapidly approaching. Much like those that don’t know how to drive a manual transmission.
I swear… Hyundai designers get to the back of a vehicle and either say “f*ck it — just do whatever”, or they hand it off to the b-squad. The Ioniq 9 is actually one of their better attempts, but geez. It’s bizarre.
Its so subjective!
I love it, apparently many don’t!
You can’t just drop “ottomans” without a picture! These are the details we want!
Wouldn’t the Lucid Gravity technically make a 9th 3 row EV SUV?
The problem with pushing the $70k mark is that now I’m like “F*ck it, why not just look at a Lucid Gravity now, too?!”
I know I don’t represent the average buyer because I’m especially debt-averse right now — and to be fair, this price is not unusual for full-sized SUVs or well-equipped pickups, or almost any midsize SUV from a luxury brand)
I just happen to be comparing it to ICE cars for $20k less and doing the payback period calculation, plus you always need to be wary of how susceptible all EVs are to battery issues — either faults, or even the idea that tomorrow Toyota announces solid state packs and suddenly ever EV drops 20% in value like it’s a first-gen Leaf.
Actually that last scenario would be great for the used market…
Clearly I’m not the average buyer, as I just don’t understand those people who drop nearly 6-figures on an SUV/Pickup. Or those people who lease a new car every 2 years.
And there are quite a few that I work with (and, yes, they also complain about money).
Does this mean real leather isn’t an option, even on the higher trims?
Pretty sad and pathetic how many expensive vehicles think they can get away with fake stuff these days.
It’s been around enough and tested in the real world to the point that they sell durability over luxury. Most people (MB and VW/Audi pushed fake leather the hardest) agree that it’s close enough to the real thing, plus easier to clean and almost never cracks with age. Plus it makes the vegans happy…and you know how violent they can be!
If I’m spending this kind of money for your vehicle, you’re killing cows for my seats and dashboard, I’m sorry but there’s no way around it.
Don’t care about durability after 20 years or 500k miles (leather lasts if you take care of it), and don’t care about vegans’ feelings.
I was just pointing out that leather is only “luxury” in cars out of a sense of tradition. It was once the spill-proof, comfy, durable option, but it’s been beaten on all of those. I’m still a traditionalist, but I can’t argue with what they’re offering. I just think they shouldn’t pass it off as leather, and it should be cheaper IMO.
I guess I just don’t agree that real leather has been beaten on comfort by anything in modern cars.
The only real reason for leather (or faux leather) is that it is easier to clean and it has a perceived higher status. Cloth can be far more comfortable than leather. It deals with temperature much better and can be much more compliant. But car makers were able to sell leather as a premium, so that is what they did. That meant they tended to make all their cloth interiors crappy rather than bother with high quality materials they couldn’t charge extra for.
Comfort is obviously subjective, so trying to convince each other of relative merits is a fool’s errand.
Nonetheless:
I will say that temperature problems are basically handled by heated and cooled seats; I don’t live in Siberia or Phoenix, so there’s no realistic seat temperature that can’t be solved with a press of a button.
I will also say that if cloth was (or could be) the most comfortable choice, the likes of Rolls and Bentley would offer it as an option at least. Their customers want the best and would pay for it; marketing and perceived status are less relevant when you can literally afford anything you want. The fact that they don’t (and no one in the luxury space does, apart from quirky JDM stuff) tells me something.
I actually prefer good-wearing cloth. Both my Fiesta ST and my Suburban have cloth interiors and I find them to be quite comfortable. My Jag with Connolly leather, well, yeah, you got me there. I can’t imagine it with anything else.
Your statement that temperature issues are addressed by heated and cooled seats is true in modern cars, but it entails extra cost and more stuff to break, and I like to keep things simple personally. That and the fact that corporate profiteers somehow think it’s okay to try and charge subscriptions for such features is a real turnoff. Also, second and third row passenger seats generally don’t get the heating/cooling treatment and passenger comfort matters, too.
As for the beyond ultra luxury segment, I’m not sure I agree image/marketing don’t matter; I suspect Rolls doesn’t want to do the parallel engineering and manufacturing on cloth seats even if they are more comfortable as it would be a sell job because people have this ingrained idea that leather is more luxurious. Then again, I am weird and I would a million times rather have a Toyota Century with wool seats than any Rolls.
I think the idea that people who buy a Rolls or Bentley (or any obvious luxury good) don’t purchase for status is as backward as it gets. Status is the reason luxury brands exist. Their designs are based on that fact almost entirely.
The additional electronic items are necessary to address the issues inherent in leather. The fact that they are needed just emphasizes the natural issues that leather has as a seating material.
I agree that comfort can be highly subjective, but treating it as an objective truth was literally what you did in your post.
Where?
When I lamented the fact that Hyundai seemingly offers nothing but vinyl in a $75K vehicle?
When I stated my *opinion* that nothing has beaten leather for comfort *for me*?
Buy cloth if you like it. If you find it more comfortable, who am I to say otherwise?
Every post I’ve made on this article has been premised on no more than disappointment or disbelief that Hyundai and others won’t offer real leather in expensive vehicles, especially EVs, and that I personally find leather the most comfortable material available while also being surprised how many people disagree.
Any more than that, you’re reading too much into.
Obviously, these are all opinions. Mine was no different than yours, but you wanted to treat mine as though I was claiming it to be an objective truth about comfort while avoiding the same standards for your own comments.
The only difference in my comment is that I applied a bit of background and depth about the materials in question to my opinion, while you made an obviously bizarre and nonsensical claim about wealthy people not caring about status.
Since you don’t seem to understand my point, let me spell it out more carefully.
If you’re the kind of person who buys a Rolls Royce, why wouldn’t you insist on the very best and most comfortable interior materials imaginable? Are you being judged for a cloth seat? And if so, by whom? What possible need for further admiration or validation could you have when you’re already purchasing a better automobile than anyone else can? If Rolls customers demanded the finest cloth in the world, they would offer it, whatever it cost.
You seem to be saying that people everywhere, in every market segment, are fooled by marketers into buying an inferior leather option and if only they saw the light everyone would switch to the premium cloth that they really want deep down. The reason I find this argument tiresome is that people deploy it in favor of whatever their pet causes are (cars vs trucks, small cars vs big, manual transmissions, wagons, etc). It’s always the fault of greedy corporations or evil dealerships that other people don’t like what you like or buy what you buy, it can’t ever be that your preferences are simply not popular.
I understand your point perfectly. It isn’t complex or deep. It’s just clearly and demonstrably incorrect. Repeating it just makes you wrong on repeat.
Everyone is manipulated by marketers. That is the point of paying for marketing. It is to make profitable things popular, even if they aren’t necessarily the best product for the job. This is especially true for luxury brands that depend on their place in the status strata more than a product purchased for its inherent practical qualities. The wealthier people are the fewer other worries they have and they can spend a lot to pursue that most human of all desires, status.
As somebody with about 30 years of design and marketing experience I can say with zero doubt that idea that people who can afford an RR or other luxury brands don’t care about status is entirely detached from reality. It is the primary reason people buy luxury brands. The features and options selected within those brands represent status symbols within the owners’ peer group. The people who can also buy a RR. After all, that is the audience that matters most. The vast number of options and bespoke custom finishes available on high-end models make that clear. As does the use of huge visual symbols of wealth from the RR grill to the massive badges on BMW M models or premium pickup models. That doesn’t mean that all the reasons for those purchases is status but the manufacurers and designers are 100% aware that status matters a whole lot to those customers.
BTW, RR does in fact offer cloth seating. If you want to have haute couture rather than buying off the rack like the poors.
The very fact that you spent 30 years in marketing explains a lot about why we seem to have such differing views of human nature.
I’m pleased to see RR is now offering cloth, perhaps their sales figures will bear out the real truth in this argument.
My views on human nature and its relationship to product development and sales are based on prima facie evidence of how luxury brands are designed and marketed as well as extensive experience, substantial data, and thousands of recorded observations over time, which have been shown to accurately predict results that align with that prima facia evidence.
They are not simply blowing smoke that validates a personal opinion based solely on an emotional response, and no evidence.
Even if the underlying qualities were still that of the more premium option, if an RR looked like a Bentley, they could charge Bentley prices. If Bentley looked like a Lexus, they could only charge Lexus prices. If a Yukon Denali looked like a Tahoe LS, they could only get Tahoe LS prices. Or nearly so.
There is a very clear reason why very expensive things tend to be the most obvious in their premium nature. If people buying premium items didn’t care about status, the premium items wouldn’t be obvious. The wealthy people who don’t care about status don’t buy a RR, no matter what RR owners might claim. OR at least they are few and far between.
The data and their behavior make it clear that they place a huge premium on things that exist only for status. But people just don’t like to admit it, so it isn’t a question that will often be answered honestly. Instead, people provide long strings of justifications as cover. But when tested, their claims fall apart quickly. The research for these things encompasses nearly everything we consume, and that research drives brand and product development. The only way to not be completely manipulated by it is to understand it.
The fact that so few cars have ventilated seats is nearly criminal, IMO 🙂
Once I learned it was just an ambient air circulator (and not an actual A/C vent and ducting) I was pretty mad they weren’t common at all price points. There are very few vehicles under $50k where it’s even an option.
Hopefully soon…at one point, heated seats were semi-lux and now they’re in almost everything except for the lowest trims.
I’d argue alcantara suede is pretty hard to beat in seat surfaces. I’ve had several cars with that, and I’ve liked the seats in those cars the best. I prefer real leather for steering wheels though.
I’m not vegan either, and I’m totally fine with real leather products, I just think synthetic materials have improved by leaps and bounds in the last 20 years compared to the days of “fabric, vinyl, leather”.
Ford learned the hard way with the first King Ranch, that people don’t ACTUALLY want real leather, as it has upkeep. They just want it to SEEM like real leather without having to actually do anything to it.
You are in the minority on this one.
I’m more surprised than I should be how many cloth partisans are coming out of the woodwork on this take that I didn’t think was especially spicy.
I’m willing to admit some of it may be true preference, but I think a lot is tied into the weird “cheap is better and more virtuous” ethos of the site. Leather is expensive and therefore Bad and Unnecessary, and paying for it is also Bad.
I’m not a “cheap is better” type, I’m not vegan, and I agree real leather used to the be the top of the heap for seat materials.
I just think that interior materials have taken a large leap forward in the last couple decades to the point where a “money is no object” type might still choose a synthetic seat material over real leather. Alcantara would be one example.
If you prefer leather, that’s totally fine by me, I just think the choices aren’t as cut and dried today as they used to be.
Perfectly fair to like what you like, I’m just annoyed at vehicles that don’t give you the option.
Nope, I love real leather and will gladly put in the effort.
But go look up some used car ads of any first generation of the King Ranch trim level and tell me those seats aged well.
Spoiler, they all look like shit cause almost no one actually does seat surface maintenance.
I was pretty skeptical about the SynTex pleather in my Forte GT, but I’m pretty sold at this point. It’s grippier than real leather, softer from day one, and seems pretty hard-wearing. The ventilated seats really help as well.
Yeah that’s the EV thing – luxury prices for non-luxury interiors. Gotta pay for that battery somehow so you’ll shell out nearly $80k and get vinyl!
I test drove a $100K Hummer the other day with vinyl seats (no leather option is even available). Madness.
Part of the reason I’m even considering an i4 rather than an EV6 even though the EV6 is objectively the better vehicle.
Do these seem like weird cars to cross shop? Maybe! What I want: a relatively fast EV wagon with leather interior, close to 300 miles of range and fast charging for under $30k used. The EV6 is a wagon but tall, with better charging and range but no leather, the i4 is a sedan but at least has a lift back and has the nicer interior with leather as an option. Shopping for used Kia or Hyundai is much easier than any of the luxury marques because they just bundle all the options into different trims and you don’t have to hunt for something specific.
Honestly the fake stuff is better. I was the manufacturing engineer responsible for M-Class wrapped dashes back in 2007 and the real leather was a real pain all the way through the production process. From cutting the patterns to avoid any blemishes on the skins to getting it through the assembly process without a tiny knick that will scrap the entire dash.
Real leather basically cannot be repaired without the repair being visible. On the other hand a good tech can make a nick in the fake vinyl leather completely disappear with some heat and a pattern to blend the grain.
It might not matter to someone that is going to lease a vehicle every 2 – 3 years but long term real leather seats are going to look like crap with use.
I was going to complain about the price, but I just checked and we bought a loaded Odyssey in 2005 for about 38k, which is about 62k now. So I guess it’s not as unreasonable as I thought.
I think the problem I have with the rising prices of cars is that our salaries have not kept pace so the prices seem worse to me.
Inflation and purchasing power parity are very nerdy subjects for me — and cars are a very confusing case study. If the market were allowed to build another exact 2005 Odyssey using today’s tech, I doubt it would be much more than $40k. Basically deflated on a nominal basis. But now we have 4x as many airbags, better crash safety, more expensive engines, fancier in-car electronics, and so on…so when we talk about prices keeping up with inflation, I tend to balk a little bit — it’s not as extreme as Moore’s Law, but it’s not that far off.
Another good example is the first iPhone in 2007, which launched at $499. That seemed insane at the time (fliphones were still almost all free, or under $100, with contract). That’s just $775 today, which is enough to get you a last-gen basic iPhone. So you could argue it’s keeping pace with inflation well, but the new ones are sooooo far beyond the old ones.
It’s just too messy to compare, but under $70k with tax credit is not too terrible. I’m just not personally considering one when our 2015 Odyssey ($35k in 2014, midrange model) is still doing so well and has almost stopped depreciating. But new cars are mostly an emotional decision….I’m just too risk-averse to go all-in on a BEV with the possibility of a disruptive battery tech around the corner (Toyota and GM are both allegedly really close)
There has been a similar discussion about $80 video games. Video games were $40-60 each in the mid-90s which is $80-110 in today’s dollars.
This is the bare minimum performance that VW should have been able to pack into the ID Buzz. Everyone laughs at how expensive that is, but I don’t see any of that here solely because Hyundai managed to get reasonable range, reasonable performance, reasonable charging, reasonable ergonomics/interface, all in a reasonable packaging/utility. VW is bad range, reasonable performance, reasonable charging, horrible ergonomics, awesome packaging/utility.
I hate this trend of making higher trims of three-rows 6-seaters. I just want room for 7 people and “fauxverhead” view.
I wish more companies stole from the Honda Odyssey and implemented some kind of magic seat; it would be the best of both worlds. 90% of the time I’d prefer captains chairs as it’s easier for me to get in the back that way, but it would be awesome to add that extra seat when needed.
The middle seat in the Ody’s second row is a godsend, we could never deal with strictly captain’s chair for a multitude of reasons (from toddlers to teens)…but in 30 seconds, I CAN have captain’s chairs when I need them, and the seat goes neatly into the trunk and only uses up 1/3 of the cargo area. The newer Pilots have an even fancier middle seat storage arrangement.
I guess for us, the need to travel between row 2 and row 3 (especially while driving) was usually minimal. And when stopped, the seats slide far enough forward that it’s easy to get out. In reality, our third row passenger(s) usually exit through the tailgate.
Guys, this is still full of editor notes.
yes was about to write that this is published before the final edit!
DT must have gotten distracted during an early-morning feeding and hit “post” by accident.
Personally, I like it. Really interesting to read the draft and the notes. It’s like a little peek into the process.
It’s giving me high school English class flashbacks.
Yeah, replying mostly to flag that this is obviously still a draft!
Thank you all for the feedback!
I still think my “mm-mil” error from yesterday was worse, since I’m an enginerd who takes pride in not writing dumb technical things (and that’s a mistake that people make all the time and it bothers me).
But this one is pretty rough, too.
How long can I blame my baby for my errors? I figure I’ve got at least two months, right?
Again, thank you all. It’s time for me to LOCK IN.
Oof that back end is rough, and that’s surprising cause I actually really like the look of the Ioniq 5.
It’s like it just…stops being a car at some point? I suppose the aerodynamics call for it as a pretty tall Kamm tail, but the bumper appears to provide no protection from a high collision bill.
I didn’t like it at first glance, but from different angles shown in the article it’s OK. I’d want to see one in person before passing a final judgment. It reminds me a bit of Volvo styling.
It def needs to change the Altezza style clear lenses. I’m sure it looks dope at night, but in daytime it screams Texas Bling to me