Some of the genius of the all-electric Hyundai Ioniq 5 N is that it can reasonably mimic many of the aspects of driving an ICE-powered sports car that we love. The true genius, though, is that Hyundai realized that people didn’t really have a real sense of what a Hyundai performance car is supposed to be, and that gave the car’s engineers a lot of leeway to try things that might be verboten on something with a little more history.
This isn’t Veloster N erasure, as, especially with the stick, the original Veloster N was one of the best-handling and most fun FWD vehicles I’ve ever driven. It’s just that Hyundai’s hot hatch was one of the last of its kind, not the first.
Volkswagen doesn’t have the same kind of leeway with the GTI name. It was one of the first true hot hatches, and the one everyone gives credit to for popularizing the category. All the things we associate with a hot hatch (low weight, a little extra power in a still-economical car, tossability) were baked into the GTI from Mk 1.
The company clearly realized this problem and therefore created other versions just to keep the GTI itself pure, including the R32 and Golf R. Everyone knows a GTI needs to be FWD, it needs to be livable, and ideally, it should communicate with the driver in a way that’s super hard for electric cars.
The way the Ioniq 5 N does it, as we noted in our review, is to engage the person in the passenger seat with high-tech mimicry:
Even though it’s only acting, suspension of disbelief can make it seem like the real thing, and it’s the same deal with most modern ICE performance cars. Those pops and bangs on the overrun are programmed in. That throttle curve probably isn’t linear. That steering was tuned by a team of experts to let through only the feedback the engineers wanted. The fact is that most modern cars are so highly engineered that no feeling, communication, sound, or sensation happens on accident, so what difference does it make if shifts are simulated or real?
For the Ioniq 5 N, or even for cars like the Porsche Taycan, all the simulation is acceptable because those cars have no real precedent.
A GTI is all precedent, which is why that’s a harder concept to reckon with for some enthusiasts. We all knew that a FWD electric GTI was coming, as it was well previewed by the electric Volkswagen GTI Concept, but VW CEO Thomas Schäfer is really laying it on thick, according to some quotes from the exec in AutoExpress.
“At the end of the decade we will bring an electric Golf [GTI], and that will be a monster car,” said Schäfer. “I’m very happy with the progress. It’s cool. You can make it exciting, it has to be exciting, it has to be authentic. If we bring a GTI, it has to be a [true] GTI.”
There’s that word. Authentic. This is important. He continues:
“We’ll bring through a whole group of GTI, starting with the ID.2 GTI which is the first one coming electrically. When we started this journey, [we told the] the development teams ‘we’ve got to be proud of the GTI of the future’, and the team’s taking that on.”
[…]
Schäfer wouldn’t be drawn on whether the GTI would emulate Hyundai’s Ioniq 5 N with its simulated gearshifts and soundtrack. It also has a drift mode, electronic playthings that are more the natural preserve of the more hardcore Golf R electric. He did namecheck the GTi suspension, which is sure to deliver the trademark blend of ride comfort and eager turn-in. “Can you make an electric Golf exciting? Absolutely,” he promised.
[Ed Note: I recommend you read the February Top Gear story titled “VW isn’t convinced the electric Golf GTI needs fake shifts and noise,” as it quotes Schäfer and his thoughts on engine sound/shifting. He implies in the piece that there will be some noise, but whether the GTI will shift seems uncertain. -DT].
This is kind of an open question because I, too, am conflicted. As an EV, what does a GTI have to do to stay an authentic GTI?
Photos: Volkswagen
If the E-GTI is not capable of 400+ miles on a charge and fast charging, I would care less if it has artificial shifting or artificial sound as it will have no appeal to me given my driving needs. If it meets my criteria for range and charging, VW can feel free to give it all the artificial noise and shifting they like. If I’m interested enough to purchase one I’ll turn off the noise from the Soundaktor or whatever they will use, just as I have on my ’18 and ’24 Golf R’s. Artificial shifting, not certain on that one, but I do like using my DSG in manual mode so hopefully they won’t can that ability if they go with artificial shifting.
Betteridge strikes again!
Front-drive and drift mode? What did I miss?
Not sure I see the need for an electric GTI, period. And I love mine.
The very idea of an electric vehicle having fake shifting and engine noises just pisses me off. Grow up, people. Appreciate the fact that it’s not an ICE.
I would be ok with the sounds if they let you record your own. Like how you can make your own ringtones. Also, put the damn rear door handles back where they belong. Stupid trend. GRRR.
No, because that’s fake and lame, might as well put those fake plastic steering wheels from toddlers’ booster seats inside every Waymo while you’re at it, so riders can pretend to be driving. It’s basically the same thing
If not being able to shift manually and not hearing loud exhaust pops are deal breakers for you, then an electric car is not the vehicle for you, if you are still insistent on buying electric anyway, then deal with the tradeoffs and focus on the differences that you like
A GTI is a toy, and it should make all the fun toy noises and have the fun toy modes possible, as long as it is done well.
It should also be made RWD for the EV version.
“As an EV, what does a GTI have to do to stay an authentic GTI?”
Be a small, light, agile, useful CHEAP city/suburban car. Cheap to buy, cheap to insure, cheap to run cheap and easy to repair.
It doesn’t need to be the fastest thing on the road but it does need to be a great dance partner. It needs to have a useful cargo area large enough so you and your partner can throw in a discarded chair you find on the side of the road.
Agreed. In order to be a GTI, it has to be a Golf first, and then add in some extra bits to make it fun + at least 50% more power. Plaid seats too.
Oh yeah, can’t leave out the plaid seats!
That would be cool as long as it can be turned off and doesn’t add much cost or any mechanical complexity.
Over a century ago cars got better when they stopped trying to be horses or buggies. EVs need to stop trying to be ICE cars and be the best EVs they can be.
I think there is room for overlap while we all adjust our expectations. Like that early car that had a fake horse head on the front to not spook the other horses on the road. Or like a person going vegetarian might eat Boca burgers for a bit until they adjust to the vegetarian lifestyle.
There’s no proof that the Horsey Horseless ever actually existed, it might have been intended a tongue in cheek joke/parody that the time
It needs to be cheap fun and fast, it does not need fake sounds and fake shifts, that stuff is too much like a video game and will end up breaking anyway.
Why can’t an electric car actually have a manual and shift itself? I get that it might be inefficient, but at this point all manuals are. So what? It would give the driver engagement they don’t have in most EVs, which is what many are actually looking for.
I’m going to take the contrarian view here, but I don’t want an electric performance car to try and ape the sounds and shifts of a gas car. It should lean into being the best electric car it can be – There’s nothing saying that it can’t have communicative steering, a well-mapped throttle response, and a suspension that doesn’t just crush the imperfections out of the road.
Let it be a good car on its own merits, not a simulacrum of what a gasoline-driven performance car is imagined to be. Maybe also let’s dial down the nostalgia/rose colored glasses for things that are anachronisms, too. Sure driving a manual is FUN, but it’s not really a thing that makes sense for an EV. Same with loud exhausts.
The problem for VW is why would you then pick the GTI over a normal EV Golf? When the experience is all the same and everything is electric, performance versions of cars lose their appeal.
The experience doesn’t have to be the same, though. There’s so much that can be done to change the experience in the throttle mapping, the steering feedback, brake regen, tire and wheel choice, suspension calibration, power delivery, etc. etc. Or VW could just make everything engaging and drop the Golf and have everything be the GTI.
Think Ioniq 5 vs 5N, and ignore the silly engine and gearshift simulations. Those are very clearly differentiated model variations on what is ostensibly the same car.
You could make this same argument about the ICE Golf and GTI as well. They’re both turbo 4 cylinders- From a practical perspective, nearly identical in daily driving at legal speeds. But that doesn’t tell the full story.
Beyond all the tuning and engineering tweaks that Bearddevel mentions, so much of one’s perception of a car comes down to the appearance, and design of the touch points. The feel of the steering wheel, seats, gauges and infotainment etc all make a huge difference to how you interact with the vehicle, and the GTI has always leveraged these sporty upgrades to differentiate it from the Golf/Rabbit.
I am firm in my stance that if a driver wants his vehicle to make enhanced natural or simulated ‘performance’ noises, they should be routed to speakers in the headrests of the vehicle so the rest of us don’t have to deal with it.
Very impressive Patent-Motorwagen, Karl Benz, but can it shit on the ground and make neigh-ing noises?
We take our EV when we want to cruise around quietly, comfortably, and effortlessly. Yes, it’s more efficient, but that’s not really what we focus on. The EV is drama-free, but powerful. It just *does* what it needs to.
We take the gas cars, namely the sports cars, when we want to have fun. It’s about the sense of “occasion” with those. You feel all of it, you enjoy the entire experience. Its rough, loud, visceral. I don’t think you can really replicate that with an EV, and that’s just how it is. You wouldn’t want a streaming service to act like a cassette tape.
If they’re making it electric, VW should absolutely give it simulated shifting. Since it’s software, once it’s developed, it’s not expensive to include it in every car as standard equipment so owners can use it or not, or they can make it an option and charge for it (hopefully, a one time charge). I’m in the market for an EV, and I’d get a Ioniq N because of the “shifter,” but the used ones are still outside my budget.
I love driving stick, and I even consider the inherent jerkiness (depending on how my clutch foot feels) to be part of the fun. I enjoy a nice car noise also. But if they’re fake, save them. Embrace what you are. If my next car turns out to be electric, I want it smooth and quiet. It’ll be fun for some other reason, great handling or whatever. Faking it is stupid and embarrassing.
Automakers keep assuming that people want their EVs to sound like ICE vehicles, or something weirdly made up, and I just don’t see it. I don’t think they’re buyers. The noise maker on the new Charger is LOUD…. and completely stupid.
Lean into the actual noises of the motors! An all electric GTI with dual motors could be properly quick, and sound like something straight out of the Jetson’s. EV motors aren’t a V8, but they sound great! IMO, better than many 4 and 6 cylinder engines out there.
This. I think there was a video where Ken Block drove a highly modified Mach-E. The sounds the thing made were amazing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-7jBLqSlzg Sounds start around 8 minutes.
Would I want my daily driver EV to sound like that all the time? No. But for a weekend car it could be fun.
Maybe offer a transmission with a quiet gear and a noisy gear so the driver can switch.
I want all electric cars to sound like the Jetson’s vehicles