Some of the genius of the all-electric Hyundai Ioniq 5 N is that it can reasonably mimic many of the aspects of driving an ICE-powered sports car that we love. The true genius, though, is that Hyundai realized that people didn’t really have a real sense of what a Hyundai performance car is supposed to be, and that gave the car’s engineers a lot of leeway to try things that might be verboten on something with a little more history.
This isn’t Veloster N erasure, as, especially with the stick, the original Veloster N was one of the best-handling and most fun FWD vehicles I’ve ever driven. It’s just that Hyundai’s hot hatch was one of the last of its kind, not the first.
Volkswagen doesn’t have the same kind of leeway with the GTI name. It was one of the first true hot hatches, and the one everyone gives credit to for popularizing the category. All the things we associate with a hot hatch (low weight, a little extra power in a still-economical car, tossability) were baked into the GTI from Mk 1.
The company clearly realized this problem and therefore created other versions just to keep the GTI itself pure, including the R32 and Golf R. Everyone knows a GTI needs to be FWD, it needs to be livable, and ideally, it should communicate with the driver in a way that’s super hard for electric cars.
The way the Ioniq 5 N does it, as we noted in our review, is to engage the person in the passenger seat with high-tech mimicry:
Even though it’s only acting, suspension of disbelief can make it seem like the real thing, and it’s the same deal with most modern ICE performance cars. Those pops and bangs on the overrun are programmed in. That throttle curve probably isn’t linear. That steering was tuned by a team of experts to let through only the feedback the engineers wanted. The fact is that most modern cars are so highly engineered that no feeling, communication, sound, or sensation happens on accident, so what difference does it make if shifts are simulated or real?
For the Ioniq 5 N, or even for cars like the Porsche Taycan, all the simulation is acceptable because those cars have no real precedent.
A GTI is all precedent, which is why that’s a harder concept to reckon with for some enthusiasts. We all knew that a FWD electric GTI was coming, as it was well previewed by the electric Volkswagen GTI Concept, but VW CEO Thomas Schäfer is really laying it on thick, according to some quotes from the exec in AutoExpress.
“At the end of the decade we will bring an electric Golf [GTI], and that will be a monster car,” said Schäfer. “I’m very happy with the progress. It’s cool. You can make it exciting, it has to be exciting, it has to be authentic. If we bring a GTI, it has to be a [true] GTI.”
There’s that word. Authentic. This is important. He continues:
“We’ll bring through a whole group of GTI, starting with the ID.2 GTI which is the first one coming electrically. When we started this journey, [we told the] the development teams ‘we’ve got to be proud of the GTI of the future’, and the team’s taking that on.”
[…]
Schäfer wouldn’t be drawn on whether the GTI would emulate Hyundai’s Ioniq 5 N with its simulated gearshifts and soundtrack. It also has a drift mode, electronic playthings that are more the natural preserve of the more hardcore Golf R electric. He did namecheck the GTi suspension, which is sure to deliver the trademark blend of ride comfort and eager turn-in. “Can you make an electric Golf exciting? Absolutely,” he promised.
[Ed Note: I recommend you read the February Top Gear story titled “VW isn’t convinced the electric Golf GTI needs fake shifts and noise,” as it quotes Schäfer and his thoughts on engine sound/shifting. He implies in the piece that there will be some noise, but whether the GTI will shift seems uncertain. -DT].
This is kind of an open question because I, too, am conflicted. As an EV, what does a GTI have to do to stay an authentic GTI?
Photos: Volkswagen
It would be dumb as fuck to give the GTI three things it does not need as an EV: FWD, shifts, and noise.
Make it RWD, and make it as low and light as possible (there are real challenges with EVs like being low and light without the fake shift and noise bullshit).
Even my ID.4 that people hate on, but that I was able to get at like half MSRP a year old manages the RWD part.
If we’re talking about authenticity, let’s look at the name itself. Grand Touring Injection. An EV GTI sure as fuck is not going to have fuel injection. So why insist on the other gimmicks?
Plaid seats for the die-hards.
How did Matt get the lead photo past management?
As long as it looks like that concept, they can do whatever.
Also no, a GTI does not need to be FWD. In fact, all these new electric hot hatches should be RWD or AWD.
FWD was always a compromise because of the hatch’s economy car roots. Now that those restrictions are gone, it’s high time these cars move to the superior configuration.
There is nothing sacred about FWD.
Many times while in traffic I’ll hear somebody with a fart can exhaust on their Civic or Golf, that I’m fairly sure my Bolt EV is quicker than(it’s actually quicker than a Civic Si and almost as quick as the current GTI, nevermind the craigslist special with fart can and cut springs) and I’ll have to start making raspberries so I can be just as cool.
So no, this shouldn’t have fake speaker noises. Some specific sport modes that have quicker throttle response and vary regen using paddle shifters would be good, but leave the goofy fake noises out of it. If the Daytona charger is any indication, the faithful will be repulsed by it, and the sport EV curious will probably tire of it after 5 minutes.
No I don’t sit in a race car and make vroom vroom noises anymore why lose mileage having the radio play pretend?
Yes an electric Golf can be fun. VW actually got most of the formula right on the e-Golf, but range was limited, because it was an ICE conversion. Fake shifts aren’t worth it, but I do hope they are considering using the Re-gen set up from the e-Golf, it’s a great way to gain distance, and also can keep the driver involved when they chose to. It can be like a manual that only downshifts at times.
People didn’t like the Soundaktor in the Mk7 ergo GTI fans don’t tolerate fake sounds.
A performance EV with fake shifts (aka occasional interruptions in torque to simulate a gear change) makes no sense; you gain nothing while losing a portion of the linear surge of power output that makes an EV so compelling to drive vs. having to hunt for power bands or wait for turbos to spool (yes, even in the GTI) in an ICE car.
Now, the ONLY exception is if there were truly a physical gear reduction not unlike what the Taycan tried, but at the same time, that doesn’t seem to have caught on.
If it can be turned off, go nuts.
The fake noises are cheesey maybe let the motor make noises.
“Everyone knows a GTI needs to be FWD”
I disagree with that.
First off, GTI originally was just a sporter trim level of the Rabbit, Golf, Polo, Scirocco and other models that came standard with a fuel injected engine… which is what the ‘i’ stood for (“Injection” as opposed to “carburetor”).
This trim level should never have been turned into a model.
So for it to be an “authentic” GTI, it should go back to being a sporty trim level
And they were all FWD only because practically all VWs with front engines were FWD until AWD became popular.
And thus to me, ‘GTI’ should just be a sportier version of an existing mass-produced vehicle.
But then again for an electric vehicle, since it doesn’t have ‘injection’, it should either just be GTE (electric), GTS (strom – German word for electricity) or just GT.
It’s an electric.
So no – It should not shift and should not make unnecessary noise.
Because that would be stupid.
Let’s put the development efforts into making it fun to drive with less weight, great steering/handling and great braking feel.
I really don’t want fake noises or shifts. I don’t know how they make an EV GTI true to its legacy, but fake shit isn’t the way. Keep it as light and chuckable as possible, and don’t get tempted to add ridiculous EV power and go from there I guess
Now you can take it in for electrical problems like a normal GTI, but then just gesture generically towards the entire car when the service writer asks about the problem.
See I already own what I figured is an EV Golf GTI, the Cupra Born. It’s the same size roughly as the golf and does the same things, it has the same power as a mk7.5 GTI and even has relatively engaging handling. But could it replace a sports car in my garage in the same way a GTI should? Not for me
I can’t think of a specific example offhand, but:
Have you ever seen a movie or cartoon where someone is floating, happily ascending into the sky (heading toward the light…), and then someone or something pulls them back down to earth (or further…)?
That’s what I think of when I hear about shifting or fake noise in EVs.
It’s supposed to be simpler! Why are you adding this kind of complication that does nothing for regulatory purposes, aesthetics, or efficiency?
It’s for fun. The quest for better, faster, more profitable has forgotten that having fun is the best part of living.
Faster just happens to be a side effect of not needing a transmission. If every kilowatt-hour matters for range-hungry customers, I can’t see such a system not eating into that unless it’s something you specifically have to go into a menu to enable, in which case…have fun, I guess, if that’s your thing, but I wouldn’t want the car if it had separate physical controls for a feature I’d never use (or at least, something *big* like a shifter).
I’m a child of the 80s. To me, GTIs should have four things:
My memory of the GTI was that it was the first 80s car that was fun. Other cars might have more power, but I never saw anyone get out of one without a giant grin on their face.
But let’s be honest, a pure inexpensive car tuned for fun and nothing else wouldn’t sell in the numbers to justify its existence in today’s world. Fake noises isn’t going to make up for the change.
So, embrace what it is, make it a competent, inoffensive hatch and forget trying to make it something it never will be again.
Does it?
The GTI & R lost the third pedal, shifter, and now it’s engine. VW’s fighting pretty hard against any sense of enthusiast already.
My 77yo dad keeps holding onto his mint 2004 R32 (6MT) because he just can’t find anything worth replacing it with. Bone stock, 45k miles, bought new.
At this rate it’ll be mine soon, and that might be ok…
It will be too heavy, too souless, and too expensive. No, thanks.
I’m a GTI fanboy. I’ve had a few and currently daily a mk7 that I love dearly. My next car will almost certainly be a mk9 EV.
All that said – give us a clean slate. I don’t give a white for nostalgia. Give me the GTI DNA, but build the car to be modern. Set a new precedent.
I had a Golf with a DSG gearbox as a hire car once. I shifted it all the way up and down the box with the paddles I think twice but then got bored of it since the gearbox did a perfectly adequate job.
In a similar vein, I’ve never bemoaned the lack of a manual ignition advance knob on my daily driver. I’m sure having to adjust timing on the fly would give an additional level of driver involvement, but the car’s ECU manages that just fine for me.
What I think I’m saying is that making something materially worse for the purposes of nostalgia is not a great move. If someone wants a Golf that has gear shifts and makes the noise of an ICE they’ll probably buy an old one that actually has an ICE and a gearbox anyway.
Fake engine noises and fake shifts are the tofurkey and veggie dogs of the car world. It’s totally fine to be an electric car, you can do things an ICE car can’t, be proud of that instead of pretending to be something you’re not.
Fake shifts and fake noises should not be on the table. Where is the innovation to make the electric sports car/hot hatch an actual experience other than a super fast golf cart?????
GTI, “GTE”, “eGTI”, “id.GTI”, “id.GTE”? I’ll be real curious to see how they try to pull this one off and whether they can be successful at it. The nomenclature alone will probably be maddening.
GTI.Buzz
GTI.Buzzkill
Please don’t do emulated shifts unless you are going to actually put a clutch pedal in and go all in on feel. These half ass cvt style shift points are dumb and make the experience worse.
For the authentic GTI experience in the EV world, VW should add a fake water pump that craps out every 40K miles.
Have no fear! EV powertrains usually have coolant pumps so they can make that a perfectly real problem!
Or an old-school check engine light that comes on randomly.
And if you upgrade to the premium package you get a sunroof that doesn’t drain water correctly resulting in a water-stained headliner
Don’t forget the water filling up in the spare tyre well in the boot
They should come from the factory with a headliner delete.
For whatever reason, my mind went to the battery responding with “What are you gonna do, BLEED on me?!”
If they are going to simulate shifts and noises, they may as well have simulated engine problems too! I’m gonna need lots of strange engine warning lights and messages on that dashboard!
And for a really authentic experience, make that water pump dump coolant into areas it’s not supposed to go to… such as in the electronics built into the electric motor, causing it to shit the bed and costing the owner $$$$ to fix
Can we add in some Mk3 fog lights that are nearly impossible to access, and a radio that has to be reset every time you change the 12v battery?