I’m old enough to remember when there was a huge meltdown over the idea of Millennials not buying cars, not having kids, and otherwise destroying the fabric of American life. This is part of a proud tradition of one generation freaking out over another one. GenXers complain about Boomers, who complain about Millennials, who complain about both while trying to prove to Gen Z that they’re still young (and mumbling under their breath that the kids are too soft).
Now it’s Gen Z’s turn to not buy enough cars, and the data behind it is quite convincing. Younger people are not buying as many new cars, and I don’t blame them. Cars are expensive. Plus, in a growing number of places it’s probably net cheaper to take alternative forms of transportation, including ridesharing.
Maybe that’ll be helpful if companies can’t build more cars because of a shortage of rare earth minerals from China. The EU is raising an alarm and asking China for help. Also asking China for help? President Trump, who is starting to admit that negotiating with the country is maybe going to be a bit tough.
Remember when everyone in America was going to buy a Cybertruck? Or a Rivian R1T? That didn’t quite happen, but at least some Europeans are maybe interested in buying a refreshed Model Y now that Elon Musk is back focused on building cars and not politics… well, sort of.
The Kids Are (Probably) Alright
Do I have the power to still hold a grudge after more than a decade? I like to think I’m an evolved person who forgives and forgets. The reality, though, is that the power of forgetfulness usually wins out over my desire to extend grace. I’ve been in a friendly conversation with someone, only to remember that we had a tiff at some point, the content of which I cannot recall. It’s probably better that way.
I will not, however, forgive The New York Times for its big piece back in 2013 titled “The End Of Car Culture,” which was bad even by the standards of Sunday Review think-pieces:
A study last year found that driving by young people decreased 23 percent between 2001 and 2009. The millennials don’t value cars and car ownership, they value technology — they care about what kinds of devices you own, Ms. Sheller said. The percentage of young drivers is inversely related to the availability of the Internet, Mr. Sivak’s research has found. Why spend an hour driving to work when you could take the bus or train and be online?
From 2007 to 2011, the age group most likely to buy a car shifted from the 35 to 44 group to the 55 to 64 group, he found.
Whether members of the millennial generation will start buying more cars once they have kids to take to soccer practice and school plays remains an open question.
Obviously, Millennials who were set back by the freakin’ Global Financial Crisis did indeed bounce back and buy cars when they could afford them. I remember being very angry about this piece at the time and, with the benefit of hindsight, we know it was all crap. As MIT Professor Christopher Knittel has pointed out, not only are Millennials buying a lot of cars, they’re also driving more than previous generations. They’re just a little slower out of the gate, in general, but make up for it on the back end.
There’s a new study from S&P Global showing that 18-34-year-olds are buying fewer cars, as you can see in the graph above. Why?
Affordability remains a major concern for young adults, as new vehicle prices climb, and monthly payments have increased by 30% in the past four years. Nearly one in five new vehicles now carry monthly payments exceeding $1,000, putting ownership out of reach for many in the 18–34 age group.
The share of new vehicle registrations by adults aged 18-34 has fallen from 12% in Q1 2021 to below 10% in the past two quarters – a troubling trend. In contrast, adults aged 55+ now make up nearly half of all new registrations and have held the largest share for eight consecutive quarters, since Q2 2023.
Millennials shot ahead of Boomers for a few years, but it’s the Boomers and GenXers with the disposable income who can afford a $1,000+ monthly payment that have overtaken the market. Additionally, as the article points out, younger generations have more options:
As affordability concerns mount, young adults are shifting their attitudes toward vehicle ownership, especially as many now face the return of student loan payments. Interest in used vehicles is growing, driven by lower monthly payments and reduced insurance costs.
At the same time, subscription-based services and car-sharing platforms are gaining traction, offering flexible new alternatives to traditional vehicle ownership. Unlike previous generations, today’s young adults can access vehicles without shouldering the full financial burden of purchasing and insuring a new car.
If you live in a place like San Francisco, I think not owning a car could be wise for a younger person. In addition to public transit, you have to take a lot of Waymo rides before you eclipse the amount you’d pay monthly for a car (parking, monthly payment, fuel, insurance, et cetera). At the very least, a used car might make more sense.
Do I think many of these consumers will get older, eventually have kids, and start buying cars? Absolutely. Will that number be a bit smaller than in the past? Maybe, but this bit of data doesn’t mean much when you consider how expensive cars are at the moment. I do think it opens the door for automakers with small electric or hybrid vehicles to pick up lifelong fans. Perhaps this is an opening for Slate Auto.
Where Did All The Rare Earths And Magnets Go?
Modern cars, including but not limited to EVs, require a lot of what people generally refer to as “Rare Earth” materials, as well as permanent magnets. China is one of the main sources for both, so it’s no surprise that the Chinese government is trying to remind people of its importance amidst all this trade war talk.
That seems to be a big concern for the European Union, which is claiming that China is slow-rolling its supplies, per Bloomberg:
The European Union’s trade chief, Maros Sefcovic, said he raised industry-wide concerns over Chinese export restrictions on rare earths and magnets with his counterpart Wang Wentao on Tuesday.
“It was one of my priorities to address this issue yesterday and we did,” Sefcovic told reporters Wednesday in Paris, where he’s attending a conference at the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development.
“I informed my Chinese counterpart about the alarming situation in the European car industry, but I would say industry as such because clearly rare earth and permanent magnets are absolutely essential for the industrial production,” he said.
The EU trade commissioner described the situation as “extremely disruptive.”
Everyone who isn’t a Chinese automaker seems to be looking for sources of material elsewhere, including Lucid, which just signed a deal with a Vancouver-based company for the type of graphite necessary to produce battery cells.
China Plays Tough On Trade
By my math, today is 60 days from President Trump’s “Liberation Day” announcement, and I’ve never felt more liberated, personally. The stated goal was to make 90 deals in 90 days, and so far we’ve got… no actual signed deals, although there’s a rough outline of a deal with the United Kingdom.
While agreements with the EU and Japan/South Korea are important, the biggest deal is going to be with China. How’s that going?
U.S. President Donald Trump said that Chinese President Xi Jinping is a difficult man to strike a deal with, in a late-night social media post as speculation swirls over a possible call between the leaders.
“I like President XI of China, always have, and always will, but he is VERY TOUGH, AND EXTREMELY HARD TO MAKE A DEAL WITH!!!” Trump wrote.
It was not clear whether direct communication with Xi had prompted Trump’s post. U.S. officials have suggested the president could speak with his Chinese counterpart sometime this week, while a Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman told reporters on Tuesday that he had “no information to share on that.”
That’s from Nikkei Asia, which noted that the Trump administration is also unhappy about the rare-earth export licenses they’d expected to get from China in return for reducing some tariffs on the country. Automakers in the United States both benefit from restrictions on Chinese cars and, at the same time, would love to keep some Chinese imports and need help with battery production.
I’m not sure how any of this gets resolved.
Where Did All The EV Trucks Go?
The Cybertruck hasn’t been the hit that Tesla CEO Elon Musk predicted, but he’s not the only one to see the dream of the EV truck fizzle. The Rivian R1T, Silverado EV, Hummer EV, and the Ford F-150 Lightning have all sold, to varying degrees, but not in a way that threatens the popularity of gas-powered trucks. Is it possible that Ford sells more hybrid F-150s and Mavericks than all the electric trucks combined this year? I’m curious, but it seems like that could happen.
So what’s going on? Automotive News explains it quite succinctly:
While automakers saw EV pickups as a potentially lucrative addition to their lineups, their capabilities were a mismatch with many buyers, analysts said. High prices and limited range for towing and hauling, compared with combustion rivals, didn’t help.
“The powertrain that people choose in their truck is a big deal,” said Alex Knizek, associate director of test development at Consumer Reports. “To get that capability in an electric vehicle, you have to really stretch the boundaries of what an electric powertrain can do.”
Proportionally, the middling sales of the R1T are probably worse for Rivian than the Cybertruck sales slump is for Tesla, but Tesla had the most out-sized expectations. And while we’re talking about Tesla and Musk, it’s probably worth mentioning that the new Model Y did cause a bump in sales in Norway, although Tesla sales in the rest of Europe continue to fall as those countries wait for the cheapest Model Y to become available. I suspect we’ll see a sales boost in many countries as the new Model Y hits more markets. The size and length of that boost is going to be key.
Musk’s government job is over, so he’s back to running his companies full time and staying out of politics. Just kidding, he went on his social media platform to call President Trump’s key legislation a “disgusting abomination” for not addressing the deficit.
What I’m Listening To While Writing TMD
My core belief is that every Fiona Apple album is better than the one that preceded it. She’s been a bit quiet lately, but that’s because she’s become a court-watcher and has been documenting the effect that high bail and pre-trial detention have on vulnerable families. She turned it into this song, “Pretrial (Let Her Go Home)” and it’s both a striking polemic and a great song.
The Big Question
If you’ve read this far, I hope it means you enjoy the healthy, regular Morning Dumps we provide. If you haven’t already, would you consider supporting the site by becoming a member? If enough of you do so in June, it means that we’ll buy a SsangYong Rodius and make our car designer Adrian drive it around. Click here to become a member, and use code “ssangwrong” and you’ll get 10% off. For less than $5 a month you can support this place and also reduce the number of ads you see!
Lead photo: Ford
I’m still in this range (31), and my wife is 30, we prefer buying used because I’d rather spend the depreciation amount on home upgrades or our hobbies/kids. We’ve only purchased one vehicle new, and that was because used models were barely discounted and Mazda was offering 0% 60 months at the time.
Currently we have a 2016 Silverado 1500 and a 2024 Mazda CX-90 that we recently picked up CPO (Mazda’s CPO CX-90’s are an awesome deal right now).
Neither car will be replaced for quite awhile, and definitely won’t be for a new vehicle. I have my eye on a used fun car in a couple years and relegating the Silverado to winter/truck use.
This is how my family operates. But I think I’m further to the extreme. I drive an ’06 Saabaru and also have a ’99 Durango and an ’05 Dodge 2500. I would drive any of them across the country without anything more than fluids check to make sure the slow leaks haven’t gotten bad enough to be a problem. I’ve never regretted choosing to operate this way because the cash it frees up allows us to do other things we love more than driving new cars. Because of who and how I am, I’ve never driven a new or newish car and been so struck by it, I wanted it more than what I currently have. I’m not only content, I’m happy with my cars.
I’ve had the Saabaru for 5 years now, the Truck for 4 years, and the Durango for 1.5, so their age doesn’t mean I’m replacing them every year or two at all. I keep cars longer than most lease holders.
This is the way. Also you can buy more project cars and boats if you do this 🙂
I’m 40 and after 10+ years of leasing brand new cars I bought a used Accord this year.
Late Gen X (48) and never owned a new car. I’ve had some very nice used ones and always saw them as a better value. There is only so much money to go around and I overall try to avoid debt/financing unless it is to my advantage. I’d rather live life than be on the revolving door of debt. We have a nice, not extravagant home and travel when we want.
Earlier Gen-X (56) and I LOVED buying new cars while there were new cars I wanted to buy and I could afford them. Though I bought my first new car at 32 and then didn’t buy another one for a decade (and then made up for lost time). The highlight being the two European Delivery BMWs I bought, one of which I still have and will likely be driven to my grave in (RWD, stickshift, wagon – not replacing that ever). But after buying new every other year for a dozen years, I haven’t bought a new car since 2019. Money isn’t an issue, choice is. Nothing I have any interest in buying anymore.
I haven’t found new car depreciation to be any sort of huge bugbear. The secret is buying the right cars for the right price, of course. Both of which seem to be largely impossible at this point.
That Fiona Apple song is killer. She is low-key one of the greatest vocalists of her generation.
I land squarely in the middle of this(figuratively speaking) at 31, and have no plans of ever buying a new car. I much prefer my cheap older cars. Just acquired my fifth I currently own(6 if you include my wifes). 2004 Mazdaspeed Miata, 1999 Miata, 1991 Miata, 2000 S10, 2004 Mach 1 Mustang. Wife drives a 2014 Malibu. I would be happy to maintain and will only go newer and bigger when I absolutely have to. I am sure the wife will go newer at some point though as she doesn’t have my same interests and we need something with space and practicality.
I’ve only bought 1 new car (2008 Mazdaspeed 3) and while it was great having a new car, it cost twice as much as my next car a 2013 Focus ST with 40,000 miles, and both have been great vehicles.
I’m in the 18-34 YO age demo and I am strongly offended that you would call me a Gen Z, I was born under George H.W. Bush and not W.
Yeah, that’s solidly millennial.
I’m in this age range! I’d much prefer to buy a house, versus going into 40k worth of debt over a car. I own 6 cars, of which zero have ever needed a payment made on them. Two of which are perfectly cromulent and modern(ish) commuters.
If you are just buying boring commuter-mobiles, what’s the point of buying a NEW one? They are all the same anyway. My best new car purchases were the two special-ordered for European Delivery BMWs I bought. Worth every single penny, even the M235i that I ended up not loving and getting rid of after two years. I will be buried in the other one. The rest of my new cars were all variations on a good time, the closest to boring being my first new car, a stickshift Golf GLS TDI. Fun and frugal, wish I could still get one
Back when money was practically free, it would have been foolish to pay cash for a car. Though as one with waaaay too much real estate, I very much support prioritizing getting off the rental treadmill (though I certainly appreciate the contributions of my tenants to my net worth).
The “contribution” your tenants are making…what a sad way to look at it. If you aren’t a slumlord charging exorbitant amounts for rent, you should probably be very grateful that you are able to help someone out with a decent place to live.
It’s totally fine to make a profit, as you should, but typing that you treat your renters solely as a source of income is something incongruent with what you have vehemently stated in the past as your mores and morals.
Which one is it, my rainy day in FL pal?
It was said somewhat tongue in cheek. But at the end of the day, that IS the reality – they are building my net worth every single month. Especially as at the moment, every one of my four, soon to be five once my new house is built, properties is fully paid for with no mortgage. I charge below market rent and have *excellent* and long-term tenants, and I like to think I am a decent and rather flexible landlord (who is VERY fussy about who he will rent to).
Are you my landlord using a pseudonym? lol.
Not unless you are in a 55+ condo here in PC.
Nope. Although all condos in Charlotte County are basically 55+, lol
Truth. Though IIRC, two condos max in the building I own in can be occupied, but not owned, by under 55s. One is currently, daughter of the owner. I think she’s 50.
I do feel for younger folks who need a rental around here. My youngest tenant is in fact 55 – but he’s lived in my house in Maine for 24 years. The two down here are in their 70s now, and I have no intention of renting this house to anyone much younger than me. My mother lives in the third one. Technically we jointly own all of them. Keeps things simple if either of us croak. I expect she will outlive me – 77 going on 17.
I got a phone call from one of my 20-something niece asking for advice on a car to replace her 25 year old Honda that just died. She has spent the last couple of years since graduating from college trying to find a good paying job in an area that is affordable for a recent college grad, but has so far found that she can’t really afford any of the cities she has found jobs in, which means the prospect of buying a vehicle any newer than 2010 is probably off the table. It isn’t that she, and pretty much all my nieces and nephews that fall into the 18-34 age bracket don’t want to have new cars, but rather they simply can’t afford them while also paying for housing and food. As my niece put it, “I guess I could buy a new car, but then I’d have to live with my mom and dad forever to afford it.”
It’s tough out there for the 20-something demographic. No new cars in our kids circles: Two of my son’s friends have lost their decent entry level technical jobs due to the Doge funding cuts. One had just bought a house last fall. She has yet to land a new job. Luckily, she has two rent paying roommates. One of his other friends recently graduated and has yet to land any computer science job. My middle child and many of her friend’s work at least 2 jobs because many jobs only work you 25-30hr wk.
That’s why people work in bars as bartenders and barbacks. It’ll pay 2x what a degree does, and if you want to work corporate (like a hotel chain or something) you get on their health insurance.
Degree work is almost useless now, unless you are trying to be a doctor or lawyer.
The trades is where the money is. I know I’m not alone in this thought on this site, lol.
A degree is the price of entry to a job that doesn’t ruin you over the long term. I may not be in great shape at 56, but I am in one HELL of a lot better shape than my kid brother who is “in the trades” who basically has to have a chiropractor on speed dial and is going to need knee and hip replacements someday. He works his ass off in the hot sun all day for a fraction of what I make sitting on my ass sipping drinks flying around the country in first class. That barback job might pay more TODAY, but it will still pay the same 25 years from now, adjusted for inflation. I make 3X inflation-adjusted what I made 29 years ago in my first professional position doing more-or-less the same things, just at a much higher level. 30 years of experience in a bar doesn’t really mean much, given bartending has pretty much been the same since the Romans. Maybe you can luck into a gid at a super high end place – but for every one of those there are 10K dive bars where you will barely make twice minimum wage if you are lucky.
Fresh out of college I was broke for a long time. But I learned more, got better jobs, and moved on up to where I am today. Dues need to be paid. I could go higher and make more if I wasn’t fundamentally lazy (they would LOVE for me to switch from professional services to technical sales), but I am happy where I am, and love what I do, so plan to ride it to retirement. And I could retire today if I really, really wanted to.
If you don’t think that those bartenders at Gators or Celtic or CJ’s are pulling $100k-$120k working four shifts, you are nuts. lol.
I’m not saying it’s a glamours life or anything, nor that some of that money “might” be going towards undesirable habits, but that money is there all day. Well over $2k/week, even off season. In season? whooowee! Even the bartenders at Four Points (inside the hotel) clear $3k. Net.
Anyway, I am glad you have a job you like! That’s what’s really important.
It was just as tough when I was that age 25 years ago. This really isn’t anything new. I bought my first new car at 32 and I was BY FAR the first in my friends and family circle to do so. Most didn’t until 40.
Define “died”. Unless it was rusted out, it could probably be put back on the road for under 2k
I can’t, as it was specified to me from 1500 miles away.
“Nearly one in five new vehicles now carry monthly payments exceeding $1,000, putting ownership out of reach for many in the 18–34 age group.”
The $1000 payment still boggles my mind. Pretty sure when I bought my first new car in 2014 I could have gotten a nice 911 for less than $1000mo. My wife’s well loaded 2022 for $625 is bad enough.
Same. I’m right smack in the middle of the Millennial generation, and I didn’t buy my first car period until 2010, and my first brand new car (for my wife) in 2011.
$1000/month is most of my mortgage payment. After college in 2010, while most of my peers couldn’t find jobs thanks to the Recession and went back to grad school, I found a good job and spent every dime I had to buy a house when prices and interest rates were both insanely low. It was scary at the time, but so worth it now.
Yeah, my cheapest car was $100 TOTAL. Lasted 6 months, then got $25 from junkyard so actually a $75 car (76 Audi wagon) I’ve only had 1 car w/ a payment, and it’s long paid off. I can’t even fathom a $1K payment…absurd. I could have gotten 10 $100 cars back then. I also wouldn’t be averse to buying a whole car for 1 payment ($1K)
Not sure why it is mind boggling when the average new vehicle is close to $50K today. Which I think says as much about the demographics of today’s new car buyer as it does the price of cars. You would think that the bargain basement turds like Versas and Mirages would be best sellers, but they barely sell at all.
I’m an old GenX. I was 28 yo when I bought my 1st actual new car. The last new car we bought was back in ’99. We both had fair jobs and only one kid at the time. Now days we tend to buy 1-2 yo cars with 20k or so miles…much cheaper.
My wife and I are still baffled how so many ‘younger’ people have really nice new houses and two nice new cars in the driveway. Is there a secret well paying job market we’re not aware of?
Sort of, if you consider drowning in endless debt a job.
No, they’re just financially illiterate and make decisions based on monthly payments, not long term thinking.
OMG this. Recently walking through a powersports store heard salesperson working with a couple to get the monthly payments down by going out to 84 months on a SxS! I just wanted to scream “You can’t afford this!”. And that is usually just the beginning, because those damn things are so large that they need to get a big trailer, and then a big truck, so it’s a snowballing debt cycle.
One of my sisters bought a pretty standard new house a few years ago. She keeps asking me how much I think certain things cost like a sxs and trailer a dirt bike a bronco. I went over there the other day and witnessed her neighbor with way too many new expensive things clogging a good section of the street. Then he opened his 2 car garage and I saw 2 $30k 4 door can am sxs. On top of the two $70k vehicles in the driveway another at least $35k toy hauler trailer. Apparently he bought some dirt bikes and atvs an concession trailer for some reason. And often has other trailers to take his fleet of off road vehicles places. There are people that are absolutely insane and just sign on the line. He is paying more for vehicles then he is for his mortgage I’m sure. He really should have moved a little further out and gotten a bigger lot to be able to store all that stuff before buying it all brand new. Quite a head scratcher.
I’m an old Milllenial. I make more than the average hourly wage for my state, and I know how much my bills are. I cannot figure out how people around my age are owning the houses they have and the cars they drive. I would have to give up basically any and all perks in my life to afford those cars and houses. Then they go on week long vacations etc that I also can’t afford. I cannot figure out how they are doing all the stuff they do. I have no reason to believe the individuals I’m thinking of make more than me. I’m familiar with their jobs and the wages typically available to those kinds of jobs. So yeah, maybe I also missed something.
0% to retirement and new credit cards on an annual basis is a pretty safe bet unfortunately.
Interesting article earlier this week in the New York Times about people using Affirm and Klarna to pay for everything from groceries to vacations. A lot of people are so used to being up to their eyeballs in debt that they need services like this to manage their spending to the penny.The problem with living in a house of cards is that sometimes it gets windy…
What a terrifying prospect. I already look at my finances and think “I’m not saving enough, I need a better buffer”. I can’t imagine how one functions in those conditions, though I realize it is true for more than just a few people.
I think tracing some of those people’s finances over time, they probably had help from their families like college paid for and/or a late model/new first car that provided an economic advantage. Doesn’t equate to poor financial decision making, just more financial stability and freedom early on.
That first car they could drive for years, beyond college, with freedom from payments or major repairs and worth more if it needed replacement. Not even anything extravagant, even an entry Civic LX will do it.
That is a very good point and some people just luck into things. My sister and her husband are very responsible, live well within their means, etc. His mom died of cancer a few years ago and with him being the only child basically everything went to him. She had a modest house on a lot of property in what used to be the middle of nowhere, but surprisingly the property got a lot more valuable than expected and he got close to 500K. They paid off their mortgage, 2 car payments, set up a college trust fund for their 3 year old, fixed and updated everything around the house such as a roof that was still fine, but was getting old and had about 100K left over.
Now that they have no debt of any sort, nothing hanging over their head as far as upcoming costly repairs, all their money now solely goes into food, utilities, entertainment, etc. and the net effect to them is it feels like their salaries tripled without anything really changing.
Moving to a state with no income tax was the best financial decision I ever made. Along with having housemates to pay off my house, which became an investment property when I moved South.
And most of all – not having kids. Or ex-spouses. THOSE are the real financial killers. My best friend is on the hook for $2K a month in child support – and the kid lives with him half time. His ex is good about paying for nearly everything for the kid out of it, but that is pretty unusual. But as I told a coworker who marvelled that I had a new BMW and a new Fiat Abarth at the same time – “my BMW cost ONE year’s tuition to a private college, and my Fiat cost ONE year’s tuition to a state school – you have three daughters who are all going to be in college simultaneously, do the math”.
I have had no debt for a quite a few years, but I am being dumb and building a new custom garage with an attached house, so goodbye to that for the moment. In my defense, this project was supposed to be finished before Trump got into office, and I really didn’t think he would get re-elected to start with. Sigh.
You didn’t think Trump would beat a dead man? lol
He only just barely beat a black/Indian woman with a funny laugh (don’t get me wrong, I think Harris would have been great, but I understand deeply the racism and misogyny in this country). So no, I don’t actually think he would have beat Biden. I REALLY don’t think he would have beat Tim Walz, or Shapiro, or Mark Kelly at the top of the ticket. The problem is the Democrats are just so damned good at losing.
That laugh isn’t funny, it’s fucking disturbing.
Also, if you thought that light in the loafers Walz was viable as the leader of the “most powerful” nation on Earth…you should probably change your water filters before the Saharan Dust clears. lol.
I sure hope you don’t think Donnie Dementia is more qualified than Walz – if so you need to spend less at those dive bars. I am reasonably confident that a potted plant is more qualified to be in the Oval Office than the current criminal occupant.
I’m not gonna turn this is into a thing, obv, but if we are talking about the same dude that signed off on the national guard firing bean bags at people just sitting on their own porches during covid…yeah, that guy.
Also, Trump doesn’t have dementia, lol. He’s always been that way. He’s a lunatic narcissist. Which, to be fair, I’ve been saying for a few years now that it is exactly what the U.S. needed.
It’s like if you ever babysat for a neighbor and their kid was acting all shitty. When you check them, and they come back with “You aren’t my parents!” and then you gotta remind them who is boss. The world was due for a bit of a reminder who is boss.
Right, wrong, or indifferent, it needed to happen. Otherwise, the rest of the world would continue to treat us as the ex-girlfriend that still lives upstairs and cooks us dinner every Sunday, trying to be besties with the new one.
I have also wondered this and I think the final result is YOLO. They spend the money and live on the edge of solvency, no retirement planning to speak of. And while I’m sympethetic to the fact that especially for younger people it just seems like a mountain too high to climb it’s the ones that are already further along with more stable careers who just make horrendous finanical decisions because *insert some socially driven appearance reason*.
We do well for ourselves for sure, and even we have made financial decisions that are really not great for long term but have kept them to such a minimum that we can plan for a very comfortable, and likely early, retirement.
You know that a bartender at your local dive bar that only works days? She makes $100k.
Shhh.
No, she really doesn’t. Unless she is lucky enough to be in a very special dive bar. For every one of her there are thousands just getting by.
Yep, they do. I’m not gonna do it here, but I can at least name 4 that clear that easily. $75/hr without breaking a sweat (even in summer).
Don’t underestimate the power of an old man’s lonely wallet.
I know lots of people like this. And every time this comes up either here or elsewhere, everyone says, “oh yeah but they’re drowning in debt and it’s a house of cards that will someday come down on them.”
But you know what? It never does. I know people that have been doing this for decades, fancy cars, boats, trips all the time, and I have no idea how their job is supporting what they’re doing. Because I know what my shit costs, and it’s a lot less than what I see at their place.
So either I’m drastically underpaid doing what I’m doing, or you really can sustain that baller lifestyle on the dreams of unicorn farts. It always makes me think I’m the stupid one.
No, the kids are not alright.
Found that on reddit a few days ago. The AVERAGE age of a home purchaser last year is 56, up from 31 in 1981. The entire economy is broken, and the American dream of home ownership is evaporating for younger generations. Wages are not moving, cost of everything is skyrocketing. The stock market has become a complete joke based on zero fundamentals and completely reactive to tweets by a reality TV star that shits his pants and has zero understanding of global economic policies. Ai is coming for most white collar jobs, and automation will be coming for most low skill blue collar jobs.
Stop saying the kids are alright.
home ownership is a such a foundational thing and yah…it’s getting out of reach for many (and that’s even before the high interest rates). I feel like it would be difficult for me to buy my own house today (purchased in Dec 2008; and currently with a COVID interest rate around 2.5%). I look at my college freshman and wonder how he’ll ever get a house (not to mention my other two in Middle School and High School).
The kids themselves are (and will be) alright. But their grandparents must fuckin HATE them, given what they have done to them.
I feel really bad for anyone trying to enter the housing market for the first time, it’s bad even having ridden the price increases for the past 15 years with tons of equity.
Don’t forget that ~1/2 of the US federal spending is social security (mostly retirement for boomers), medicare (mostly health care for boomers), and interest on the national debt (mostly boomers deciding in the 80s they don’t like taxes, and would rather take out loans for future generations to pay back). And the estimated estate wealth transfer, just in the US, in the next 20 years is something like $84 trillion (all that money the 1% boomers kept for themselves).
Don’t worry bro, that 84 trillion is going to be hoovered up by assisted living facilities and end of life healthcare bills.
My grandma retired with over 850k. When she died, she had 50k left, that was split between my mom and my uncle. The rest went into the pockets of whatever boomer owned the assisted living facility.
I whine about what I am spending on my new custom home ($400Kish), but the reality is that it’s costing me a far less in proportion to my income than my first house did 25 years ago – and I have a LOT more discretionary income today. And that first mortgage was at 8.25%. And I had to borrow the downpayment from my family, which got paid back at even higher interest than that – the First Bank of the Old Man’s rate was 10%, take it or leave it.
Kids need to do the same thing I did back then – get a couple of roommates to share the cost. I never lived solo until I bought my winter place in FL at 48 years old. Or couple up and don’t have kids until they can afford to, if then.
Hardly anyone ever votes willingly for tax increases, that blame is multi-generational. Cutting taxes, or at least seeming to, is always a winning campaign strategy.
Wow, $400k for a new custom house? That is mind boggling for me (anything, even a condo, under $1m near me seems like they are practically giving it away), but at least it still exists. I just looked up my first starter house I got 15 years ago for ~$170k without much trouble (and a roommate), and it would be over $500k now, no way I would have been able to swing that starting out without some serious shenanigans. It would be trivial for me at this point, since I’ve owned various places for 15 years, but with no equity starting out is a different story.
Mind you, it’s a very small house by modern standards. 2bd, 2ba, 1400sq/ft. And that doesn’t include the 1/2 acre lot – I already bought that for $50K. But to my own design with a 1000sq/ft garage with 13′ ceiling for a lift. I could buy something similar here (other than the garage) for a lot less now. I’m putting a lot of money into the mechanicals/electrical, and not much into “finishes”. I don’t do granite countertops, LOL. I’m doing an IKEA kitchen myself to save a small fortune vs. the contractor doing it.
You can always do what I did and move somewhere cheaper. Where I am from in suburban Portland, ME, just the lot would have been minimum $250K for a half acre. I only paid $90K for my current house (half the size, tiny 1 car garage) eight years ago, but it has well more than doubled in value since then. I bought it with zero planning and managed to pay it off in four years.
Wait the average is THAT HIGH? It doesn’t really surprise me all that much, but that number is still insane to me. I’m just under half that age and 3 months ago just bought my first house (a 2-bed townhouse) and it was still a stretch, and I’m an Engineer that came out with under 45k in student loan debt. My house last sold for 100k more than I bought it for about 7 years ago, my interest rate is a hefty 7.1%, and I only put down 3%, with the the past 3 month having been spent on lengthy renovations as a way to try to maximize my dollar in equity, but it was tough.
All of this to say, you’re absolutely correct, the kids (my generation/age group) really are not alright. It took me as a single, no-children individual with a desirable bachelors degree from a good school with well below average college debt, a good job in a relatively low cost of living area a very large amount of extra effort (with skills and tools handed down from my parents no less) and a lot of convenient coincidences to make home ownership work. I’m incredibly grateful and blessed to be where I am, but it’s already hard enough to make work, and I’m well outside of the norm for the sub-30 crowd.
For even more perspective on how bad the 2020’s have been for young people, consider this. Had COVID property speculation and post-covid rate hikes not happen, I would be paying half of what I currently am on my place, fully half. The past 5 years have killed the American dream for a lot of younger people.
In the early 50’s my grandfather barely made enough at his factory job to be considered lower middle class. Still that was enough money to buy a house, 2 cars and even a small fishing boat, all without my grandmother having to take a job. You couldn’t do that today.
Sure you can!
Oh sure the house will be tiny duplex on a tiny lot, poorly built with mold, water damage, 50+ years of deferred maintainance and miles from anything except the slaughterhouse and trainyard upwind, the shared wall a halfway house for registered sex offenders who loudy group masturbate to porn all night, the cars dented, rusty, 20+ years old and the ancient small fishing boat will have jagged holes under the waterline but yeah, TECHNICALLY one can buy a house, 2 cars and even a small fishing boat, all without mother having to take a job*
*outside the home. There’s LOTS to do at home.
I’ve never bought a new car and my ability to do so decreases every year. I drive a 27 year old BMW and a 28 year old Chevy truck.
As someone in that 18-34 age group I really don’t see the reasonings to buy new vs used right now. Since joining the workforce post college I’ve bought 5 cars, 2 of which were new. The only reason I got those new were pandemic pricing made new ones cheaper than used. We got our ’21 CX9 for $5k off MSRP right before the market flip, and my 2022 Civic Si was at MSRP when lightly used 10th gens were listed for $2-5k more. We are looking at replacing the CX9 and we are likely going with a lightly used CPO car versus another new one.
That’s extremely poor justification on buying a new car. So it was cheaper than a brand new car, but a 5-7 year old car would be cheaper still, and 10-15 years old cheaper than that.
My current daily (honda) has 300k miles, original engine and transmission, everything works. The savings from that vehicle allowed me to build other car/boat projects, buy vacation property, etc.
I was shopping specifically for a 2017-20 Civic Si as it met the criteria of getting 35mpg+, fit car seats, reasonable insurance costs, manual transmission, fun to daily, and could go compete at SCCA Nationals in the stock autocross class. No 5-15 year old car could fit that shopping criteria while still being in my budget. The fact that a brand new one was cheaper, and had a 1% lower interest rate was why I went with new.
I’m glad your beater for a daily driver works for you, I have no interest in that, as evidence by the fact I sold my 2022 Si for a used 2018 Civic Type R. Oh, and I won my region’s class championship with that Si, plus took my newborn daughter home form the hospital in it, so it fulfilled its mission.
Integra GSR Sedan.
It can’t go win nationals anymore in the stock class, It is still in the class with the new Si. It would need a significant investment to go win in the modified classes too. My Si needed only a $900 set of wheels, because I could reuse the tires from my 2015 GTI. If I wanted to go all in to max prep level, it would have only been $2k for new tires and a RSB. Also, I don’t want to have my infant kid be in a crash while riding in one on today’s roads. Old cars are great in a vacuum, not in practice for most as a daily driver. I say this as someone that has owned a 1994 Miata since 2014 too.
The loss of mobility for us older folks is an issue too……I live in the burbs and without a car we would not be able to function – get to Dr. appointments, grocery store, Wal Mart and on and on. There is no bus service here and taxis have just about gone out of business, plus they only operate in the urban core. I don’t trust the Lyft and other drive services and my kids live half a country away. So, what do WE do?
I’ll tell you one thing we don’t do is buy a NEW car. Ours are a 2017 and 2018, both with low miles……those will have to do for the rest of our driving lives.
I feel for you. The suburbs are tricky for an aging population. I am in my 50s and care for three adults in their 80s, including my parents. My parents can still drive (not at night or in bad weather) and live in the suburbs. So far, they have managed. They have a 2017 Accord hybrid that they hope will be their last car.
The single friend we care for (no family), luckily, lives in the city and can afford a nice assisted living apartment that has a shuttle to the grocery store and lots of popular destinations. She uses Uber/Lyft when my partner and I or other friends can’t give her a ride. More urban living makes transportation far easier and has kept her active.
She has Alzheimer’s, and we have her Uber/Lyft set up to notify us whenever she requests a ride so we can track it. I have been helping my parents get used to Uber/Lyft as well so that they can remain mobile when the time for them to stop driving comes.
Uber/Lyft are just fine. The drivers aren’t some random weirdos, they are your neighbors.
My neighbors ARE random wierdos, LOL. On one side, a super paranoid retired Miami cop. Across the street, his 98yo Hatian mother-in-law. Next to her are what I call the “domestic dispute” couple. I never, ever see her, just hear her yelling at him. On the other side from the cop I am my own nieghbor, that’s where my new house is going. I am sure I am thought of as the weird dude who keeps to himself with the cars that are worth more than the house (when I bought it anyway). I am close friends with some great folks down the street though.
I have used Uber/Lyft all over the country, and taxis before that, and the closest thing to an issue is that some of them are truly terrible drivers.
I blame the rampant modern paranoia on the 24hr news cycle – you hear about every bad thing that happens everywhere – it’s not healthy. An hour of nightly news plus the newspaper was plenty.
My family has treated cars a lot like how European families treat property — use it, then sell it to the kids at a discount 🙂
Not even kidding…I’m 46 and all of my cars (all two of them) for the past 25 years have been previously owned by my parents. Just for contrast, I never moved back into their house after college, preferring abject poverty to the idea of having to live with my parents, which was the worst thing I could imagine. That’s Gen X for you…
I just hate car purchases. The one time we went through a new car buy, it was when we had two kids in car seats and needed a van, so we went the obvious route of getting an Odyssey (which is near flawless after 10 years). I love cars, but I’m also a financially practical person who never had much discretionary income left over until just a couple years ago. I can totally see where high salaries or family money can mess people up for life, and I’m grateful for that. But cheap cars in good condition were a really nice piece of assistance along the way. I would never accept a handout, but with as much as things cost today, I can’t imagine NOT helping my kids with car or home purchases. They’re so out of reach.
And just for lulz, I might actually buy their current car when they’re done with it…there’s something to be said for one-family vehicles, especially those low-mileage, perfectly maintained “grandma cars” like my mom’s Q5. 2013 and it still hasn’t crossed 50k miles…
Usually, when we purchasing another car, it’s because the current one is near the end of its reliable life and/or a major repair is fast approaching, so definitely don’t want to pass on to anyone we know.
Oh, absolutely — that’s how MY cars go, they’re beyond “moral donation ability” at the end. But the used ones I buy from others (usually parents) were obsessively maintained. If you met my dad, you’d probably assume he had a Vette 🙂
Must be nice. I bought my current truck from my FIL and paid him $2k more than what he paid for it. Found out after the fact… pretty clear where his priorities are.
I did live at home (home was my grandparents for most of my life) for a year after grad school. You made the right choice, lol. Gen-X here as well. Though I suppose having been raised primarily by my grandparents, I probably have boomer sensibilities.
They helped me with my first home purchase by *loaning* me the down payment, which I paid back with interest. And the First Bank of the Old Man’s interest rates were never that cheap – he certainly did not believe in free rides (but was an excellent source of free advice and I miss the old bastard greatly). I helped my mother buy a condo, and I have bought her a couple of cars in her old age, so that is my way of paying it forward. My family is “complicated”.
I generally have a waiting list for my cars. There is literally one for my BMW wagon on one of the forums, LOL. But I only got one car from my folks, my first. My grandmother’s 4yo ’82 Subaru. The old man had bought himself an Olds 98 as a retirement present and ended up hating the thing. he kept driving his Suburban. She took over the Oldsmobarge and gave me the Subaru, starting the reign of terror that was my first year behind the wheel.
“The Number Of 18-To-34-Year-Olds Buying New Cars Just Dropped To A New Low”
I’m 54 and the only brand new vehicle I have ever bought in my life was a bicycle, so dare I say this makes a bit of sense.
47 and same. The newest vehicle I’ve ever bought was 3 years old, and that was when I was young and dumb.
Yes, cars and insurance are too expensive. But also fewer cars will be bought by young people…because there will fewer be young people.
The number of people in the U.S. turning 18 is going to drop each year for at least the next 18 years. We know that because they’re kids now. (Colleges are already freaking out about this demographic trend)
Thank goodness. The earth would be way better off with a billion fewer of us around.
There will be more billions before there are less.
(If that drop even happens. I have my doubts.)
Yet another example of where stats knowledge pays off: relative rates instead of raw counts tells a much more nuanced story in the same chart space, but it won’t generate clicks!
*Comment moved to intended location.*
More billions also means living in more urban density reducing the need/practicality of private vehicles.
Yay! Tiny tiger cages and refrigerator boxes in overcrowded cities for everyone!!!
(except the very rich of course)
If I wanted to live in a hive, I would become a bee. Nope, I need my suburban sprawl. Though I like to think that in both my summer and winter haunts I have found the happy medium of “convenient suburbia”. <5 minutes from all of life’s necessities, yet no shared walls.
Agreed. Urban living is fine for those who enjoy it but nobody should be forced into it.
Housing and schooling are continually more expensive while entry level wages are stagnating, plus used cars are perfectly functional. (also, what’s cheap and fun enough to want to take on a payment?). This sounds perfectly sensible by young people. I didn’t buy my first new car until 28, and it would’ve been even later if I didn’t have a job that required me to drive at the time.
I bought my first and only new car at 59. Not fair though: I lived in Manhattan for 35 years.
I can’t help reading Ssangyong and thinking of Lore’s nickname for Doctor Noonien Soong from Star Trek the Next Generation “often wrong Soong’. Maybe adjust it for the car, looks wrong ssangyong.
Proof that even with the emotion chip enabled, androids are terrible comedians. “Wrong” and “Soong” don’t rhyme, and the three words don’t even have the same vowel sound (aw, aw, oo). Should have brought Joe Piscopo back for more comedy lessons.
The amazing thing of that episode is Brent Spiner playing all 3 parts for half the episode, that saved some budget!
“So… if you put funny teeth in your mouth, and jump around like an idiot … that is considered funny!”
EV pickups, crewcab shortbeds all, were always a case of “never mind the demand, think of the margins!” Now that demand is saturated and the margins will inevitably shrink as deeper and deeper discounts are needed to move the metal.
What’s needed in the EV space is more sub-$30k (preferably sub $25k), four-door compact offerings with around 250 miles of range. That’ll get older Gen Zs into the showrooms and also sell to those rideshare drivers.
They went way too hard after the pickup market, when those same (now unsold) batteries could have been used in almost 2 small vehicles, which there is actual demand for now. They went after those high-margins instead of high-volume.
Agreed. Pickups are an ideal PHEV/REX platform with just enough batteries for going to the mall, gas for actual work and both for worksite and emergency power.
THIS!!!! So much THIS! Trucks are a terrible application for current (or foreseeable) BEV tech. Use a moderate battery and electric motors to torque fill and aid in high load situations while using a small, efficient ICE for low load situations and we’re cooking. That isn’t even accounting for the benefits of regenerative braking. I can’t believe Stellantis of all companies is the first one to take a step in the right direction (which will almost definitely be on their own d!cks, because Stellantis…)
I’ve long thought a pickup/SUV with a smallish REX and enough battery for 50 miles of empty hitch and bed highway cruising would be the ideal vehicle for those who actually use pickups and SUVs as pickups and SUVs. They would also have full V2X capability with enough kW to comfortably (and quietly!) power an entire typical home and have heat exchanger hookups to the cooling and exhaust systems to transfer the heat to the home’s existing HVAC so as to comfortably heat that home, even during a multi week power outage during a bomb cyclone.
Normally powered by gasoline these vehicles would also run on piped house gas or propane in a pinch. These vehicles would be useful for remote job sites, off grid living, camping, etc.
You’re thinking way bigger than I was. The power generation capability would be a huge factor for work, emergency, and camping applications. I was just thinking of a hybrid powertrain being better suited for a trucks nominal purpose of towing/hauling while being more fuel efficient doing it.
Also, I can’t help but think a dual motor eCVT setup would be much more durable than all but the strongest traditional automatic transmissions (eliminating high load shifts, reducing shock loading of driveline components, no friction components to wear, etc.) while also improving efficiency. I’ll admit, the eCVT part is somewhat informed speculation. If someone knows of why that would be inherently bad, I’m all ears…
Oh I’m sure there is someone here in Autopia who can tell you all you’d care to know about CVTs. Well one specific CVT anyway.
When you’re ready just say their handle in a mirror three times.
No not CVT’s (gross), I’m sure you’re aware the dual motor eCVT’s are a whole different animal. About the only thing they have in common are the letters C, V and T in the name (that was primarily for the people who would be triggered by those 3 letters)…
Or get rid of the transmission altogether:
https://www.nissan-global.com/EN/INNOVATION/TECHNOLOGY/ARCHIVE/E_POWER/
That seems a bit more like a diesel electric locomotive in operation, correct?
Interesting, I can definitely see the benefits…
Very similar. Slightly less efficient than that ICE directly driving the wheels at peak efficiency but more efficient overall.
Maybe bias because I’m not in WA/OR, but when I hear “Vancouver”, I always think of Vancouver BC – not Vancouver WA.
It wasn’t until I was in my 30s that I realized Vancouver WA and Vancouver BC are not sister cities on the the border, and that they’re on the opposite side of the state.
Funnily enough it looks like I’ll be staying in Vancouver WA for a week next month for the first time.
They aren’t sister cities. Vancouver, WA is just across the border from Portland, OR. If the traffic wasn’t the way it is, it’s a 10 minute drive from downtowns. But with that bridge, it’s more like an hour most days. Vancouver, BC is way further north.
That’s…. what I said?
Sorry, mis-read. Shouldn’t comment right after a nap.
I live exactly between the two and refer to BC as good Vancouver and Washington as bad Vancouver.
A few decades ago I lived in Vancouver, WA, and I have since learned to tell people that I lived in the Portland area, and then if they ask specifics I mention that I lived across the river in Washington. If they ask more specifics than that I know I’m either about to have a discussion with someone else who lived in Vancouver or I’m about to have to explain that no, I did not live in Canada, and that yes, Washington state is north of Oregon, and no, Portland, Oregon is not on the Canadian border.
How close is that to Portland Maine? Where is the closest Springfield? 😉
Fun fact: two entrepreneurs were friends from Portland, Maine and Boston, Massachusetts. They went west and founded a city, named by flipping a coin. You could have been in Boston, Oregon.
I knew a guy from a smaller city in Alabama. His great great… great grandfather founded the town with a friend. They named it after the friend (Cullman). It’s a good thing that coin went that way, this guy’s last name was hard to spell and someone would have mis-spelled the post office…. again.
I grew up in Washington.
I knew a girl in college that was also from Washington. She couldn’t figure out how she didn’t know me in High school. Then we figured out she meant Washington, PA and I meant DC.
Now I say “I grew up outside of DC, I’ve lived in Washington State.
Then I have to explain I lived in the Desert of Washington State, which is a fun discussion.
“Why spend an hour driving to work when you could take the bus or train and be online?”
Because your corporate overlords and local government need you to needlessly suffer traffic to prop up their corporate property values, tax basis and the businesses that support those properties that’s why.
So cynical. And yet so accurate.
That’s my preferred modus operandi.
What is this ‘work’ you speak of? I thought that has become obsolete for young people. Isn’t it all ‘influencing’ these days?
Is that what you do weekdays 9-5?
Those EV trucks sure are nice. I’ve driven the Silverado, Sierra Denali, and the Ford Lightning. But the GM ones in particular are so expensive. I continue to beat the drum that a PHEV truck makes so much more sense and I hope to see more than just a RAM version of a PHEV eventually. I want to use electric during my commute and gas for towing our camper long distances, while having the benefits of regen braking and electric torque. I’d feel more comfortable towing with the range of something like the Silverado or Sierra, but I’d still rather not deal with public charging while towing a trailer.
I have deposits down on both the Ram and the Scout. Those are the only way I will get into electricity with pickups.
My 18 y/o sits there facetiming their partner all day long. It’s just not the same as it used to be.
At least they’re not monopolizing the phone line.
Every single one of these surveys ignores the rising prices of car insurance. I bet that if you’re under 25 and could afford the payments on a new car, you’d change your mind about that purchase when you discover that your insurance payment is more than your car note.
I was set to buy my first new car at age 24. I called my insurance guy and he told me that if I held off until my 25th birthday, my insurance would cost half of what I would pay if I bought the car at age 24. I waited a few months.
Similar to the way things were for us in the 80’s then – and probably how it was for our parents.
So we bought used cars – putting off our new car purchases until we were into our late 20s. We still got around.
Yeah, not much has changed actually. Bought my first and only new car at 19. My insurance was a lot more than my car payment, and that was with only 5% down and a 14% interest rate.
Truth. I have 3 kids under 22 on my policy. I could make a car payment on a very nice car or a couple nice used cars for what I pay in insurance monthly.
I bought my 1989 Firebird used in the fall of ’92 at the age of 21, and as I recall my payment was 249/month and my insurance was 250/month. I had some speeding tickets on my record, so yeah, don’t do that.
That’s about $570/mo (each) in 2025 dollars, which would still get you a decent used car today even at 7% interest.
This kind of reminds me of when I was in my teens and I went to rent a pickup and they said they wouldn’t rent to anyone under 21. I was baffled, I had rented cars before, was securing with legit credit card AND my insurance for my vehicle at the time covered rentals. I think that age might have even gone up since then. It was a long time ago. I was 20 at the time and running a small business, they literally impacted my opportunity to deliver a job.
Sure we have this meme now of 30 year olds living in their parents basements that can’t even pour themselves a bowl of cereal, but there have always been enterprising young people, and allowing these policies to exist just hammers the already under performing economy.
I was 22 when I bought my first new vehicle, a 1995 Nissan Truck. My monthly payment was $172 and my monthly insurance bill was $182.