A reader showed up to one of our taxi meetups this week with a new-ish Audi (shoutout Tam), and I thought it looked good. I also had to pause for a second to remember which one it was. I presumed it was an A4, but for the first time in a long time, I needed to check. This is just one of the problems that Audi has as a luxury automaker.
A big thanks to Thomas for covering The Morning Dump while I’ve been on the road. It looks like I missed a lot, so hopefully I don’t repeat things too much. Let’s try a topic of conversation that’s always a topic of conversation: What is Nissan doing? Right now, its new CEO is trying to buy himself enough time to turn the company around while also not revealing how much he thinks the company will make (or, more likely, lose) this year.
What’s another topic I touch on a lot? Tesla’s European sales continue to slump, in spite of the new Model Y starting to roll out across the continent. Early issues with the Robotaxi service certainly aren’t helping things. How should I end the day? With Škoda, as somehow Thomas didn’t cover that. We apologize for the oversight.
Audi Disproves The Theory That Having More Models Is A Good Thing
Is it better to have a single vehicle that is the leader in a class or have multiple vehicles that make you a segment leader? That’s the open question today. The Jeep Grand Cherokee is the best-selling upper midsize utility vehicle so far this year, according to S&P Global Mobility, but Kia sells more total cars in the segment when you combine the Sorrento, Telluride, and EV9.
You can play this game all day. Honda has the best-selling CUV, but Toyota just eclipses it with the RAV4 and BZ4X.
Why does it matter? S&P Global’s Tom Libby explains:
In the US automotive market, segment leadership is a powerful asset. A top-selling nameplate delivers clear marketing wins. But for many automakers, total brand performance within automotive industry segments—across multiple models—can be just as valuable, even if no single model takes the crown.
In fact, brand-level leadership often reflects a broader product strategy, especially when multiple models span price points and propulsion types.
It’s an interesting question, and I think the long-term answer will likely be that having multiple powertrains so you can continue to grow/maintain a customer base is going to be better than just having one model. In the short term, I don’t think either Toyota or Kia is making a ton of money from their EVs, even if it’s important to be in that space.
What’s the exception to this? When you have a bunch of cars in one category and still get your butt kicked:
Yikes!
Mercedes has the class leader S-Class, with about 21% share of the segment, and has 32% of the overall full-sized luxury sedan segment. BMW has a ton of models here and edges Mercedes overall with nearly 38% of the segment. BMW probably has too many variations in this class (and I’m not sure why the 760 and 740 are considered two different models, I guess the 750 is because of the electrified powertrain), but it seems to be working for them.
Audi, though, only has 5% of the class and has three different models if you break out the A8 and S8. That’s not great. The e-tron GT is not popular. The new S5 looks interesting, but overall Audi’s sales have fallen as it’s become harder to explain what Audi is supposed to be. In particular, a look at sales shows a drop across every sedan other than the A7 in Q1. As Manager Magazin puts it, 2024 was supposed to be a big year for Audi with new products, “but the VW subsidiary remains mired in crisis at the beginning of 2025.”
Tariffs against non-USMCA-compliant cars built in Mexico could absolutely devastate Q5 sales, which is something Audi can’t afford right now. In general, the cards feel very stacked against Audi.
It could be worse, I guess. Maserati sold just 13 Quattroportes this year, apparently.
New Nissan CEO Gets Hazed By Investors
Nissan’s new CEO Ivan Espinosa seems like a pretty chill dude as far as auto execs go, but he’s stepping into an extraordinarily hard job, as the automaker flails around after years of confusion following the ouster of Carlos Ghosn. Step one in taking over the top job at a public company is to talk to investors, and — bad timing for Espinosa — Japanese investors have gotten a lot more active in recent years.
How did his first big shareholder meeting go? It was a little testy according to Automotive News:
One shareholder who attended the three-hour meeting and spoke on condition of anonymity said that the new CEO was “quite smooth and fluent” in outlining his recovery plan but equivocated “without substance” during the question and answer period. He called the meeting “more stormy than I expected.”
Espinosa said he understood and shared the frustration with Nissan’s problems. But he said the company has a solid revival plan and promised the turnaround has already started.
“We have to continue with the restructuring, which as I said is very painful,” he said. “It’s far from what we want to do. It’s far from what we want to achieve. But we’re starting to see the company move in the right direction.”
The biggest issue seems to be that Nissan is mostly keeping its executive board in place while cutting mostly frontline workers. This feels a bit unfair to some given that frontline workers had little to do with the failure of the company, whereas the executive board has a lot to do with it.
Another big issue is that Nissan hasn’t yet put out a full-year guidance for what it expects to make (or lose).
Tesla’s European Bloodletting Continues
Another month, another opportunity for me to look at Tesla’s European sales numbers and go “blurgghhhhh.”
The market overall is trending heavily towards electric cars, with those vehicles making up about 15% of new car sales so far this year. In particular, EV sales are up heavily in Germany, which is the largest market in Europe.
Tesla is doing dog-crap sales, though, and is down 45% year-over-year through May, and down about 40% in May itself. I presume that even with the Elon-Musk-Of-It-All, the revised Model Y will probably help stem the sales slide a bit, but it’s a bad sign that you’re losing share so quickly in a market that’s starting to embrace electric cars more widely.
The bigger issue beyond Musk may be that Tesla doesn’t offer the kind of cheaper and smaller electric cars that Europeans are buying from companies like Renault. Tesla also lacks PHEVs or EREVs, which are growing in popularity across the Atlantic.
The New Škoda Student Car Rules
Every year, the trainees at Škoda get to make their own car, and it’s usually quite cool. This year’s model is a Superb truck! A PHEV truck!
I’ll let the company explain:
With the support of their teachers and experts from various departments, the trainees invested more than 2,000 working hours in the planning, development and production of the Škoda L&K 130. It is the first Student Car to be based on the Superb Estate and the first to feature a plug-in hybrid drive. Thanks to its electric range, it is well suited for use as a support vehicle during bike races.
When running in all-electric mode, it uses a high‑voltage battery with a gross capacity of 25.7 kWh. Moreover, it offers generous space, which makes the Škoda L&K 130 the ideal support car for professional cycling races. The students transformed the estate car into a pick-up for this purpose. The vehicle now features a new rear window behind the rear seats separating the interior from the open loading area. It comes with a new, integrated bike carrier mechanism for transporting and quickly providing spare bikes.
I love it.
What I’m Listening To While Writing TMD
Are you ready for a vibe? This is Dinner Party, a jazzy supergroup that includes Kamasi Washington, Robert Glasper, Terrace Martin, and 9th Wonder. Griffin and I were in the car together for the last week, and he turned me onto this. Enjoy!
The Big Question
What’s better? To be the best in a class or to have multiple cars? Give me some examples!
Top Photo: Audi
You had me at Kamasi Washington and Robert Glasper.
I made my way into a 2024 A4 allroad this past winter. This was coming from a failed ownership experience in capacitive touch-screen VAG electronic hell with an ID.4. I also have a 2017 GTI that I love. It’s interior is the exact mix of regular buttons mixed with a nice small little carplay screen.
The A4 allroad has a great interior, drives very nicely, has buttons where you want them, and is a huge step above from the the other wagon experience out there (Subaru).
But alas, it looks like the A4/a6 allroads are going away. The electric suvs have no soul. Adding more and more screens, especially for the passenger, is silly. Hopefully they right the ship and come out with interesting cars that aren’t electronic blobs.
I went from a 2013 A4 allroad to an SQ6 e-tron. The SQ6 has PLENTY of soul – it’s a blast to drive. The problem with the allroad is that the US hates wagons – Audi sells A4 and A6 wagons (avant) outside North America, and they are very popular, but the only wagon Audi still sells in the US is the RS6 avant, a great car but limited appeal due to price.
’20s Audi is just sooooooo boring. They’re nice enough of course, but if I were to spend that sort of money on a car like that I’d like it to bring at least some interesting design to the table. If it’s going to be that boring, I’d be better off with a Lexus.
I used to work for VWGoA, and even after 6 years, I couldn’t tell an A4 from an A6 from an A8 at first glance without looking at the back.
Audi was the obvious fallback for understated, maybe sterile design fans once SAAB bit the dust, but in the last few years they seem to be chasing the Fast & Furious crowd with way too many vents and confusing angular styling that looks more like “Nice Hyundai” than “BMW Competitor”.
That and the D5 A8 is going on 8 years old – it’s definitely time to let it go or update it.
It seems like they don’t know what they want to do. The coupes allowed them to be a little more aggressive with styling but keep the sedans very understated. Then they started blurring the rooflines and everything looks the same, which ends up being a bit boring for some and a bit much for others (though compared to BMW it’s all super understated and won’t make you throw up in your mouth a little if it catches you off guard).
I think a big issue for Audi that isn’t styling related is AWD. It’s become much more commonplace in every segment and they lost their edge there.
Same sausage, different lengths, is fine when the sausage is tasty. Audi hasn’t been tasty in a long, long time.
There is a fine line best in class or have multiple cars. If you go for best in class and you only have the one product and it is a flop you are stuck. If you have multiple variations you have double the design costs and parts inventories.
I think you should go best in class an have a vertical. So you have an entry level brand, a premium, and a luxury. i.e. Chevy, Buick, Cadillac or Scion, Toyota, Lexus. Obviously it does not make sense to have every vehicle at every price point. Entry level cars should be affordable so not having a Full Size Sedan makes sense. Or a compact Luxury car, that would most likely end up a poor badge engineering job (Cadillac Cimarron).
Customers are investing more in their vehicles and are expecting more in return. throwing a bunch of options that are the same doesn’t make sense (Hence the death of Pontiac and Oldsmobile) Make a good platform and then differentiate each level.
Does Audi even spend a dime advertising their cars?
Mercedes and BMW have a big ad spend – but Audi?
*crickets*
They’re going to be entering F1 next season (a very significant marketing spend), but outside of that I have a hard time thinking of the last Audi ad I’ve seen…
Mercedes-Benz has been in F1 since 1994
BMW was in F1 in the 80s thru 2009
Meanwhile Audi announced they’d be entering next year – after several years of delays – taking over the Sauber team which BMW formerly powered, then Alfa Romeo.
Depends on if you’re focused on model success, or just overall brand sales success. Having several models that might overlap can bring the latter. Chasing the ‘best-in-class’ superlative is a long game for a fleeting title, so unless you’re going to be a big player the multiple models can be a better strategy.
GM in the 90s with Buick & Olds having your choice of A, N, and W body is not the prettiest example but at least kept units moving. Nowadays it looks more like the same ingredients arranged differently, sort of K-car-esque. I was thinking about this with the Crosstrek thread because Subaru has long leaned that way, like Forester-Outback have long been priced on top of each another. Mazda is another, $30k will get you a -30, -5, or -50.
I don’t think Mazda or Subaru are focused on having a best-seller title but they have had regular sales gains and their dealers seem happy. If you’re someone like Toyota you do want titles for key models. The RAV4 being outsold by the CR-V in Q1 is big, because the RAV4 has been the best-selling non-pickup for some time. The few bZ4x sales are irrelevant, that’s like when Honda would say “well we’re the best-seller in retail sales.” That something like 4Runner/Land Cruiser overlap isn’t an issue, it’s barely a specific ‘class’ that they are in.
I don’t follow it all that close because they run together, but I don’t think Audi is inherently different from BMW in model count, it’s just BMW does some thing(s) better. Product, marketing, image, etc.
Honestly the appearance the Audi is a dressed up Volkswagen is the detriment.
That (lack of) separation of brands is likely limiting it. It should be gauged like Lexus and Infinity as they are upscale brands of a popular average consumer product.
For a while, VW at least did carry a bit more upscale of an image than most mainstream brands. Similarity between an A4 and a Passat wasn’t an issue, a Passat was a lot nicer than your average Camcord of the time. Less so now as they got more aligned to the mainstream.
I think part of Audi’s growth in the 2010s also came on the backs of other premium brands slipping at the time. Much like Toyota/Honda had cheapened some models early in the decade as rivals put out nicer products – I remember the F30 being knocked for being cheapened and softened, as an example. By the end of the decade the slipping brands had begun to swing back, and some of the prior benefactors (like Audi) then had aging product.
Glad it wasn’t just me. I love Volkswagen but feels like Audi is too much.
I’m with you – to me, VW hit the perfect spot of premium, but at a palatable price. Audis just weren’t that much better, but they sure cost a lot more. If I was going to pay BMW money, well, I was just going to buy a BMW (and I did once I could). But then VW all but gave up on being premium in the US market other than the Golf/GTI. I think my ’17 GTI Sport was peak VW. I find the Mk8 hateful.
Though at this point, all of them are as dead to me as the Republican Party. I’m out.
Can anyone explain to me why the passenger side rear door has 2 handles on it?
If it isn’t an AI photo generation thing, I’d put my money on the idea that since it is a support vehicle for bike racing, you can pull both handles at the same time and remove the entire door. Better access when pacing beside the bike rider.
Could also be dual hinged to open either way.
I think it’s to give the person riding a bike a good place to hold onto while people inside the car are helping them. The help could be as simple as replacing water bottles or more complex like cleaning up road rash from crashing.
I do not care in the least of being “Best in class”. Kia/Hyundai climbed to prominence because they offered “good enough” for less than the competition. Then they made the cars look good, and continued to undercut the competition on pricing.
Now they offer all the features of the other brands, but STILL undercut them.
No one is buying them due to brand loyalty in the vein of Honda/Toyota reliability. They’re buying them cause they look cool, they have the crap you want, and they cost less.
In a world where our buying power seems to shrink by the week, cheaper cars that aren’t ugly, and have what I want (why aren’t heated seats/wheels standard yet?) are going to dominate.
And many are finding out that ICE and EV’s from the Koreans are awful in the reliability department…
I’ve had my Ioniq 5 for a year now with no issues. They addressed the charging port recall when I brought it in for a tire rotation (I need to get a heavier jack to lift that pig), it really caused me no inconvenience.
Their ICE is bad, but imo they’re pretty on their game in the EV arena.
Hyundai/Kia also canceled out the reliability question with their warranty.
They had a bad rap in the early days, and really only offered the fact they were cheap.
Then they were still cheap – but better looking and offering features you didn’t often see on competitors.
People wanted to like them….if only they were good cars… Well here is a 10 year warranty to ease your mind. They set themselves up to overcome objections a buyer could come up with. I know there are mixed reviews on the real value of the warranty (likely in part because Hyundai/Kia dealers are some of the worst out there), but it does sell cars.
Only in the US. Canada is only 5 year/100k (60k miles). They still buy em hand over fist up here.
BUT… and it’s a big one.
Warranties are great but if your 2017 Tucson with only 38k miles begins to burn oil… and then burns ALOT of oil… the owners are then put through hoops to get that warranty to repair or replace engines which are on national back order for six to nine months at a time because 100,000’s of them are failing due to excessive oil use and I do mean EXCESSIVE like a quart every thousand miles. And then the catalytic converters are destroyed and knock sensors have to be replaced first to “verify” that your engine is indeed defective while it is burning oil…
I was an original Kia fan guy having owned a ‘96 Sephia, an ‘04 Rio and ‘04 Sedona. Owned a ‘11 Sonata hybrid as well. All with no real serious issues.
Until the ‘17 Tucson 1.6T.
Heard all of the stories too…
Korean vehicles are junk.
And most dealerships do not offer you a loaner vehicle.
I’ll keep my three late model Mitsubishi’s.
That Skoda is the looks like the adult child of a Hyundai Santa Cruz and a Subaru Baja after getting a butt lift. NEEDS MORE CARGO ROOM.
I wanted a Baja so badly circa 2002 but I was broke™…used examples exist even in 2025 but boy howdy! are they overpriced. $10K CAD for a 243K km example?
Hot take: supergroups are usually less than the sum of their parts and the tension-free “hey, pal, wanna make a record” vibe is generally skippable for all but superfans.
(Note that I don’t consider two-person team-ups “supergroups,” so stuff like Old British Guy/Country Woman doesn’t count.)
I too have found that most “supergroups” are not really very super.
They’re Superpoops, from my experience.
Some critics consider The New Pornographers a supergroup, and if so, that’s the exception to the rule. Of course, Neko Case might be able to make band as bad as Kiss sound good.
That was my first thought of “supergroup that actually worked” even if most people are probably unaware that they are a “supergroup”.
Even Case Lang Veirs was an impressive project. Putting egos together usually leads to a mess. Putting musicians who actually know how to listen together seems to be the secret.
Great call. Some tracks on Case Lang Veirs are breathtaking, delicate and complex.
KISS has always sucked ass. They have like 3 good songs and they can barely play their instruments. I get that the stage show and their whole schtick is cool but I’ve never understood why they’re as big of a deal as they are.
They’re like a boring GWAR.
I was listening to Gor-Gor yesterday lol. Love GWAR. RIP Oderus.
I saw a recent video of Gene playing bass and he definitely was not Carol Kaye.
Yup, KISS sucks…so overrated. I’ve never liked them at all. A long time ago I had a coworker whose favorite band was KISS. I’ll never understand
Such a garbage band.
100%. Damn Yankees, Traveling Hillbillies both come to mind.
If you mean the Traveling Wilburys, good call. I’ll admit that they were good, but they weren’t better than any one of those guys on their own–hell, most of those songs can be characterized as B-side of “[frontman]’s song.”
Of course, how they could be any better than that is impossible, given the pedigree, but that’s the whole point–we wanted them to be and they weren’t!
Traveling Wilburys Vol. 1 is a good album, in so much I come back to it every year or two for a listen and it holds up. “Handle with Care” was the big hit, and their first album sold more than 2 million units. I think the Traveling Wilburys are another exception to the “supergroups don’t work” rule.
I like the cut of your jib and I want to subscribe to your newsletter.
Tom Petty (at his peak)
Leff Lynne (ELO)
Roy Orbison
George Harrison (A little band about bugs)
Bob f’in Dylan
FYI, that new Bob Dylan movie called “Complete Unknown” was REALLY good…I watched free on Delta
I’ve seen over the years that Jeff Lynne and George Harrison put the band together in part to give a boost to Roy Orbison and Bob Dylan whose careers had cratered out in the 80’s, and they were huge fans of. They were friends with Tom Petty, so they invited him to join too.
Wow, that’s sweet! Having grown up when the Wilburys were active, Jeff Lynne was always the guy whose name I struggled to remember. I can’t imagine either of those giants needing a hand up from anybody, much less the guy principally known these days for the song from Guardians of the Galaxy. At least now the kids know who was the guy with the big hair in Prince’s “While My Guitar Gently Weeps” solo.
counterpoint: Mad Season, Temple Of The Dog
I’ll add Them Crooked Vultures and The Postal Service.
That TCV album is slept on. Everything Josh Homme touches turns to gold. I’d love to hear another album from them but I’m not expecting one. I also don’t know that I’d say the supergroup quite lives up to the sum of its parts but Velvet Revolver did give us a handful of fantastic songs. Slither would definitely be on my guitar riff Mount Rushmore.
I’ll concede that Velvet Revolver delivered on the promise, but my brain went straight to Them Crooked Vultures. It sounded like everybody involved just went in expecting it to be awesome and they just went with the first take. It felt like a bunch of jams they turned into a demo…and then went home.
Oh I don’t agree at all. There’s a bunch of really interesting stuff going on musically on that record. Weird tunings, weird time signatures, odd song structures, etc. It was clearly made with love and not just spat out.
I like the lone TCV album more than QOTSA’s Songs For The Deaf, which I also think is great. Dave Grohl’s most inventive drumming, imho.
Yeah the intro to A Song For The Dead is some of my favorite modern rock drumming. My favorite QOTSA album is ….Like Clockwork though. As much as I like the early super heavy not-that-different-from-Kyuss stuff I think that era was peak QOTSA.
I like Jon Theodore’s drumming more than Grohl’s (I don’t believe Dave would’ve been able to hang with The Mars Volta), so you can’t go wrong with that album either.
Not just anyone can hold down the kit for QOTSA, I’d imagine it’s a tough gig. I like Theodore’s drumming as well. I’ve never really gotten into the Mars Volta and until very very recently I never understood the appeal of At The Drive In but I should probably revisit them…although I’m just not really a huge prog guy in general.
Josh Homme still puts out great shit and he’s been at it forever now. It’s pretty damn impressive. Really want to see the “Catacombs” tour QOTSA is doing.
The last album was the best thing Josh has put out under any name in ten years and sounded like he was actually having fun.
From what I can tell from the preview video, Catacombs is (just) reinterpretations of QOTSA songs, but I can’t say I’m not curious.
Haven’t been able to listen to the WTF interview, but I’m looking forward to it. You’re right, he’s an Elder Stateman who never seems to stop making stuff.
Oh cool, wasn’t aware Maron interviewed him recently. I’ll give that a listen.
Bill Burr also had him on this week.
Well he’s certainly making the rounds then.
Makes sense as Maron is a guitar guy, and Bill is a drummer.
I have no idea what he’s promoting on this “tour”, but I hope it goes well. Seems like a pretty straight shooter, I suppose.
Maybe not Brody Dalle re:everything turning to gold. I have conflict around separating the art from the artist, but that whole thing tempered my idolatry of him.
That said I LOVED Eagles of Death Metal. He was officially a member, but never toured with them AFAIK. Such a fun live show.
I’ve never really been under the impression that he’s a particularly nice or wholesome guy. His lyrics seem to make that pretty clear and he has a long track record of volatile behavior. I get the impression that he drinks way too fucking much. I have a musician friend who opened for QOTSA way back in the day and he says he’s never been around a band that caused more trouble…although this was back in the Nick Oliveri era and he seems like the absolute worst and a total scumbag through and through.
Brody also has a long track record of similar behavior though. She’s not exactly known for being a well adjusted person either. There are a lot of stories about her floating around out there. Anyway their relationship always seemed like a powder keg to me. I won’t claim to know what went down, but I’d imagine that both of them did plenty of messed up shit, although that’s not me justifying any of it or defending Josh. If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, etc.
He’s one hell of a musician though, and I can’t deny that my own approach to music is heavily influenced by him. But I idolized him around the time that I idolized Hunter S Thompson, which should tell you all you need to know about the type of shithead I was. Most people fortunately outgrow that type of lifestyle, and the ones that don’t don’t usually have stories that end well.
Ha! And agreed, to your all points (especially Nick–how much of a dick do you have to be to get kicked of a band of jerks?!).
But do, if you haven’t, check out In Times New Roman. I hated Villains, but its successor was better in every way and a return to form along the lines of the progression from Rated R through Clockwork, each albums’ songcraft getting tighter and more subtle without losing their nasty edges and smirking fun.
Villains struck me as trying to be nasty fun but it was all “edgy” smirking.
Oh I like In Times New Roman quite a bit. I think it’s a fun record that successfully recaptures some of that classic QOTSA flavor.
Postal Service doesn’t count any more than the first Perfect Circle album: it was just somebody singing over somebody else’s fully formed tracks, and since there were really only two people involved, disqualified (by my dumb interpretation of “supergroup.”)
TCV should have been awesome, but wasn’t, and was exactly the disappointment I thought of when I saw the word “supergroup.” If there had been somebody else involved, they might have pushed for better composition, but the product just feels lazy to me.
Technically, there was a third member of The Postal Service in the form of a female singer, but since enjoyment of music is subjective, I’ll leave it at that. 🙂
I thought the lead song on that TCV album was stellar…then I lost interest in the rest of the album.
Mad Season was interesting, at least, I’ll give you that, but it still wasn’t better than The Layne Staley Solo Album we never got…with a famous backing band. I can’t say more because I never listened to the second album. But I will today, thanks for the reminder.
TotD is an odd example because they existed before their components really became big. But I think it’s a great album, regardless of my dumb semantics, and everybody but Vedder WAS in stuff before, so yeah, I think it counts. Good call.
Does Straylight Run count as a supergroup? John Nolan and Shaun Cooper of Taking Back Sunday, Will Noon from Breaking Pangea, and John Nolan’s sister, Michelle (not of any well-known band prior).
I have no strong opinion either way, but the definitional question got me thinking about what is and isn’t a supergroup.
If you’re a millennial between the ages of 30-38 and have found memories of Warped Tour, then yes. For everyone else probably not.
I’m a millennial between the ages of 30-42 and have fond memories of Warped Tour, Endfest, and other festivals. So I guess Straylight Run is a supergroup for me as long as I stay a little immature.
…And what fun would
internet comment boardslife be if we didn’t all stay a little immature!I’m just mad no one’s mentioned The Highwaymen in this supergroup conversation. I think they’re the exception to the rule with Them Crooked Vultures a close second.
Yeah, that’s a definite big one. Personally, I do think of them as less than the sum of their parts because they were all huge and talented, but they certainly made some magic together.
Fugazi is technically a supergroup. That turned out better then the various original bands.
So, at least one turned out well!
I love Minor Threat and have been trying to like Fugazi for a couple decades. I will get there. Probably.
wait what? to wikipedia!
Yeah, it’s a mash up of Rites of Spring, Embracer and Minor Threat. Not exactly KISS, but respectable and they got the straight edge!
Got to the bottom of this thread and saw no mention of Broken Social Scene, which is awesome. Very glad multiple people appreciate The Traveling Wilburys & Case/Lang/Viers. Only the finest most cultured folks here in the The Autopian comments.
Audi turned into the best vehicles for insurance commercials, just so meh. Mercedes Benz was following that path with their EVs but they still have some decent cars.
How Audi has fallen. Ten to fifteen years ago, seemingly unstoppable. Now, Meh. Sad. But at least they are still connected to Skoda and Porsche.
Song construction seems to have lost something of late. Lots of chorus repetition and/or mealy mouthed mumbling, all at the same pace. In general, one hook does not a song make. But what the hell do I know? I’ve never written a song. 🙂
It’s the “don’t bore us, get to the chorus” mentality.
The artists you hear on pop radio aren’t writing their tunes either.
I blame Tik Tok. For everything really, but especially for modern music being what it is. Not that Dinner Party is affected specifically, especially since they made a song longer than 2 minutes. But yeah even it is a bit too repetitious, like it never evolves past the first bit.
eh, they still make pretty high to mid range AWD sedans that are unfortuantely also German and more often than not boosted. Add in their DILLIGAF attitude to designed for repair setup and of course the change of attitude towards sedans in general and the reason for being becomes a bit muddier for them.
I grew up loving Audis, and cars like the TT, S4, R8, etc. captivated my imagination as an adolescent and teenager. My uncle had a tuned A6 for years that he took me for rips in as a kid. My parents have owned a total of 5 Audis between them. An Audi was something that was aspirational for me for a long time.
…but not anymore. Outside of the RS3 (which is still held back by its hideousness) and the A7 they’ve got absolutely nothing that appeals to me. They’ve killed all of their cool cars. The R8 is gone and will undoubtedly be some electrified abomination that weighs 5,000 pounds when it returns. The TT is dead. The S and RS cars have been left to wither on the vine while Cadillac and BMW steal their lunch money, etc.
I legitimately struggle to tell the difference between every soulless crossover they sell. Is it a Q3? A Q5? A Q6? A Q7? Is it an EV? Is it ICE? I don’t fucking know….but I do know it apparently only comes in black, white, or primer gray because those are the only colors that they seem to sell. If you park your Audi Q whatever in a garage or lot in a nice part of town good fucking luck finding it when you get back because there will be 10 of them and they’ll all be white or gray.
Audi has done everything they can to make their cars as inoffensive as possible and as a result they’ve removed all personality, and they somehow grow blobbier and even more anonymous with each generation. What the hell makes a the current Q5 stand out? The fact that VAG has quadrupled down on their haptic bullshit and given you EVEN MOAR SCREEN?!?! The damn thing looks like an overweight fish, and the new A5 is barely any better.
Oh, but the passenger gets a screen now, so they do can be constantly overstimulated and distracted from the fact that they’re sitting in an Apple Store that’s been furnished by the cheapest shit IKEA sells. Ugh. I can’t even begin to fathom choosing an Audi in almost any class they’re in at this point…and it’s not even that they’re BAD necessarily, it’s just that they’re nothing. They’re rolling tech blobs that are years removed from having even the absolute slightest amount of edge.
I’ve said this a few times but it bears repeating-I think current Audi has arrived at the point that their cars are more or less anti-designed. Rather than being put together visually with the intent to arouse some sort of emotion they cobble their designs together with the intention of being as inoffensive as possible. It’s just so cold, clinical, and exceedingly German.
Hey now, IKEA has done much more engineering on smart packaging and reducing weight of their products than Audi.
Oh, come on! You’re being entirely unrealistic.
It’ll weigh 5700lbs.
“5,700 is ze new 3,000!l
-German engineers
Nailed it. 10 years ago I really wanted an S4. A few weeks ago I had whatever the higher output A4 is, as a rental. It was incredibly boring. After returning the car, I didn’t feel like there was anything noteworthy about the car and I was fairly unimpressed with the interior.
My mom drives a 2018 Q5 that they bought new. I remember at the time thinking it had some pretty interesting features and drove well. The A4 felt like it was still stuck in 2018.
My mom has 2022 SQ5 and honestly I think it’s a pretty damn good car for what it is. It’s quick, elegant, comfy, has the right amount of tech, and the interior is a nice place to be.
….so naturally Audi made it way less attractive/more anonymous, overburdened it with technology no one asked for, and made the interior worse. I used to want an S5 but the new one is so overwhelmingly bland that I really don’t anymore, and while I love the A7 I’m sure Audi will enshittify it soon enough.
In that pic the white one is the Audi, right?
I recall years ago GM had a marketing statement for the Chevy Cavalier, with big bold letters claiming that it was the “most fuel efficient vehicle in it’s class” (or some outlandish similar claim)
In fine print, the class was defined as 2-door Chevrolet cars. Which, at the time, would have been limited to the Cavalier, Monte Carlo, and Corvette. Not its actual competition.
Whenever I hear someone claim “best in class”, it’s all I can think of.
This is hilariously ballsy.
That Skoda isn’t bad looking at all… a uteish vehicle that’s clearly sedan/wagon based, but able to bring home a dishwasher when needed, without the meaningless suspension lift and goofy plastic cladding that defines ‘crossover.’ It’s right-sized and decent looking. 27.5 kWh isn’t a very big battery, but mention of ‘when running in all electric mode’ makes me assume that maybe it’s got an ICE engine in there somewhere too. So, it’s perhaps a hybrid with a big (for a hybrid) battery, or an EV with some kind of ICE range-extender engine.
I’ve only owned a single, problematic late 80s Audi that I liked despite its habit of turning off at random times/any speed, but I’ve driven many of them over the years. I like the way they look, drive, and feel, and they were early to the upscale interior game, which I appreciate since inside the car is where I spend most of my time with it. However, they are (and always have been) big, heavy, fancy, gadget-laden VWs, with all that implies. The last car they made that actually inspired lust in me was the R8, and before that the A2 (more of an intellectual attraction for that one, rather than outright lust). And the first-gen TT of course, which I still regret not owning despite their high maintenance costs when they get old. I’ll probably never buy another Audi myself given my age, needs, and experience, but the automotive landscape would be a poorer place without them.
PS:
My neigbor’s overnight guest just drove off in a new or almost new Nissan Versa. Kind of a crimson color, with a black leatherette interior and some boringly de rigueur diamond-cut alloys. It’s not bad looking for what it is (i.e.: very affordable) and it’s only two fewer doors and a manual gearbox away from being almost/actually kind of desireable. The dash, steering wheel, and seats, while simple in design, all looked pretty nice for an entry-level car.
The other day, I also saw the new Tesla Model Y in the Hollywood Trader Joe’s underground parking garage. I hadn’t seen those new (front and rear) lightbars before, so for a moment and from a dimly-lit distance, I didn’t know what it was. As I got a three quarter view, that familiar porcine porpoise shape became clear, and I was able to confirm that yes, it was indeed the new Model Y. It’s not as kludged-together looking as the original Model Y, which always looked like Tesla’s designers just took a Model 3 and inflated its hindquarters and gave it a lift to make it a crossover. This new one has the same shape, but refined, and the new lights add some visual interest. Not that I’d ever buy one of course, with Elon so bent on extreme douchbaggery like he is.
Does the Chrysler Pacifica count as best in class? I certainly think that marque could benefit from a few more Cars to sell.
If the class is “current Chrysler models” then absolutely it does.
It’s a good vehicle.
Well, when you cut every single vehicle except two, you start with the losers and you’re left with….the winners.
Relatively speaking.
It’s definitely my favorite PHEV minivan by a long shot.
What’s better? To be the best in a class or to have multiple cars?
I don’t know. But from the investor’s perspective, make the most profit with the least capital expenditures… and maybe plan on trying to sustain good economic performance for the longer term.
I am/was an Audi fan and have owned several Audi-branded products in the last decade. However, what Audi once was is no longer what they are today. They used to be understated. timeless, crisply designed, highly functional and logical (ergonomic) vehicles that had class-leading interiors. Now? They leaned in way too heavily on being the “tech forward” brand and not only failed on that front, but ruined everything they had going for them. Their interiors are terribly designed, full of screens, they ruined virtual cockpit with android based junk, and the materials are trash.
There’s a huge problem when pretty much every Audi fan on the internet pines for the previous two generations of Q5 versus the new one that just came out. The same is true of the A4 series, A6, A8, etc.
Audi also has failed to deliver multiple powertrain options that make sense. They could have offered the A4/S4 also as an RS4 avant. I would have bought one. I had the a4 allroad and would have killed for the RS4 instead. They had the engine, they had the wagon body, all of the components were there and EPA certified, but instead decided to bring us the RS5. I’d love and RS6 avant too, but the prices have gotten out of control.
Agreed. My mid-70s parents are lifelong VAG loyalists but are struggling to find anything to replace their 2013 Q5 (which I’m supposed to buy, but alas…)
The reasons? Cluttered interiors and useless/excessive technology.
Reminds me a lot of a graduate marketing class I had where they shared a case study of home telephone makers around the year 2000. They added more and more features to make home phone be more competitive with cell phones (which weren’t taking over yet, but were definitely putting pressure on the biz). The average cordless home phone had something like 27 specific features based on competitive analysis. But when they finally decided to do more customer focus groups after years of declining sales, the result was basically “we only want 6 features”. They failed to realize that your competition does not equal your customers. (Vtech, by the way)
Audi used to be my benchmark for good interior design, but now each time I look at a new one all I can see is illogical, designed-by-committee nonsense.
Also, an RS4 Avant would be sweet. I could never afford one, but seeing one on the road would bring me joy.
My only experience with Audi is my son’s 2000 TT and I’m totally impressed with it, especially the interior details. The design has held up well for 25 years and mechanically it’s very solid and reliable. My 17 year old son bought it with money from his car detailing business to have an affordable fun car. He jokes that it’s a hairdresser’s car but it’s fun to toss around with the 5 speed. Sounds like Audi has totally lost its way since those days…
In a hot segment, the latter, in a cool segment, the former.
Look at how many SUVs Toyota sells.
Corolla Cross, Rav4, Crown Signia, Highlander, Grand Highlander, 4Runner, Sequoia, Land Cruiser, bZ, (I think that’s it).
Some varying sizes and missions in there for sure, but it’s hard to argue there isn’t a lot of overlap. Some might be best in class but I wouldn’t say all of them are.
Meanwhile, the S-Class is a prime example of being best in class in a segment that doesn’t sell much. So is something like a Mustang, a Miata, or a Corvette. It would probably be silly for any of those companies to make a second sporty vehicle that would only steal from their first one.
That’s good reasoning. You want a mix that ensures each model gets a fair chunk of sales.
I wonder if it’s fairer to combine Audi with Porsche when looking at model mix. If so, it looks even worse to me.
I certainly would. The Panamera and A8 are surely cross-shopped, as are the SUVs.
Yes, I would bet the Q8 and Porsche Cayenne are cross shopped, as are the A8 and Panamera (and RS6 Avant and Panamera). The irony is sometimes the Porsche is the same price (maybe with a lesser engine) and you get the prestige of the Porsche brand – for better or worse.
Which version of this vehicle did you want, sir, we have at least four brands of it on-tap: the VW Tiguan, Audi Q8 (or Q7), Bentley Bentayga, or Lamborghini Ursus?
To be fair, the VW Touareg is the one from that lineup but we don’t get it in the USA anymore. Also, the Porsche Cayenne belongs on that list.
I’d argue be best in class. Look at Nissan, they just released a new Murano because they wanted to fill another segment, and by all accounts it’s decent, as are a lot of their more recent releases, but they’re all hardly best in class. As one of our local Mazda fanboys, I think what Mazda has done with their product lineup has been excellent as a smaller manufacturer. They are not populating every segment, but the one’s they are in, their are very competitive, and unique enough to sell stronger and stronger every year, they have damn good products that appeal to buyers and differentiate themselves enough to justify.
Meanwhile you have Audi making a myriad of coupe-back crossovers because BMW and Mercedes do it, which are hardly compelling in a bloated niche, and ditto with the EVs despite the demand being soft. I can understand wanting to have something for everyone in order to spur growth, but that’s how you end up with oddball cars or half-assed attempts at appealing to new categories. Another example that shows my point, pre-2008 Banktruptcy GM, they made a car for *EVERY* single niche, and it did not go well for them. Sure many of their cars like the GMT800 were class leading, but making 18 different versions between Pickup, SUV, Halflet, in Chevy, GMC and Cadillac flavor each was too many, and cost them dearly.
To all companies that need a product roadmap: focus on core competencies, execute those few areas strongly, and grow as makes sense when the market demands it.
Re: The GM versions on versions issue:
I think about the Chevy Traverse family of vehicles released in 2008. I distinctly remember reading an article in C&D that had an engineer proud of the fact that the tires/suspension were so dialed in on these vehicles that there was no difference in any of it from brand to brand (save the wheel designs, naturally). No difference. They had 3+ versions of the same driving experience. There’s only so much you can do on the inside to create that differentiation between brands. Why go through all the validation for all the different interior bits to support Chevy/GMC/Buick/Saturn?! And that’s just one vehicle in their stable. Give brands distinct cars, focus a bit, and make products that are above average!
Given GM’s finances then and the Lambdas being over budget (IIRC) that also might have been a PR-friendly way to say “we can’t afford to do different handling setups for the different models.”
Best in class, hands down. Make a few good cars that can be tweaked and honed over time, making them better and maybe even cheaper over time. You don’t have to be the single best one out there, but it should be the goal. Most of all, allow your vehicles to straddle segments! Forget that microsegmentation of marketing data, it’s wrong.
The excessive and sometimes irrational need to have a vehicle in every segment has chapped my hide for nearly 20 years.
For example, in the US market Audi has very little reason to even have an A3 or Q3. If they had never come up with those, the A4 and Q5 would both probably still be a little bit smaller, but would also work for a wider variety of people and situations.
Second to that, chill out with all the offshoots. Do we really need the A5 Sportback with its tiny, upright rear seats with almost no headroom? Or should maybe the A4 have also filled that segment? Why is the A5 coupe not just the “A4 coupe”? What even is the Q8? Yes, I know the answer to most of these questions, but I also want to punch myself for knowing the answer because I feel like that justifies the stupidity.
(Note: I realize Audi has more need for sub-segments in Europe, so they naturally just send most of those over here, but this is more of a thought exercise about why a brand doesn’t just excel with a single model)
Better to have a few models rather than one. Using Tesla as an example: they have one model in five categories. They definitely could have used a few more to keep sales rolling in. Like a regular looking pickup. Or a boxy 3 row CUV. First there’s a terrible Musk that needs to be deal with.
I want and quite possibly need that Skoda.
Throw some plastic seats in the back and sell it here, please!
BRATwurst?
/yes i know they’re czech but also not really
Superbamino for the win. The smaller version could be the Rancheroctavia.