Home » The President Won’t Stop Talking About Tiny Japanese Kei Cars

The President Won’t Stop Talking About Tiny Japanese Kei Cars

Tmd Ford Kei Ts
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I usually do the Wordle first thing in the morning, and for fun I take my performance as a sort of sign of how in sync with the universe I am. If I can grab a 2/6 I’m in the zone, but anything worse than a 4/6 portends disharmony. This morning I broke a long streak with the dreaded x/6.

This is all to say that, after looking at today’s big news, I conferred with most of the staff to discuss how I’d approach today’s Morning Dump. The news is dominated by reactions to the President’s policy agenda, and that policy agenda has a huge impact on the automotive market.

Vidframe Min Top
Vidframe Min Bottom

Much of it revolves around two fixations: Very small Japanese cars and a very large European island. What happens next is of no small importance to humanity in general, and I’m somewhat grateful this morning that my remit is to put it primarily in the context of cars and not, say, the Treaty of Westphalia.

Being out of sync, I’m going to take this carefully and slowly, starting with the revelation that President Trump still wants automakers to build Kei cars, then talking about how this whole Greenland business could have major effects on European automakers, before talking about how it’s going to benefit companies building cars in China.

And, since I’m already talking about how strange the world has become, I might as well toss in the fact that Renault is going to start making drones.

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The President Again Asked Ford CEO Point Blank If He Could ‘Sell Kei Cars Here In The U.S.’

Ford Pronto Taiwan Large
Ford Brochure via Reddit

The President surprised everyone, including the assembled representatives of America’s 2.5 major automakers, by announcing that he’d made it legal to build Kei cars here in the United States. He seemed to be talking very specifically about the small Japanese cars that were designed to be cheap, qualify for lower insurance, and could be owned without needing to prove you have a parking spot.

Looking at his statements, the best anyone can gather is that President Trump saw these on his swing through Asia and, facing a huge affordability crisis, wants a VW Beetle-like people’s car that normal people could buy for a small amount of money.

So far as I can tell, it isn’t suddenly easier or more practical to build Kei cars, and no automaker has gone on the record saying that they’re going to do it. The specific regulation changes he or Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy is working on haven’t been announced, and, arguably, it is legal to currently build something like them here.`

While I sort of took the Kei Car thing as a one-off thing said in passing, it’s apparently not, as CEO Jim Farley recently mentioned. This comes via the Detroit Free Press, and it’s a thinker:

He brought it up to Ford’s top executives during his Jan. 13 factory tour at Rouge Center — where Ford makes its full-sized F-150 pickup.

“The president today asked me, ‘Can you sell kei cars here in the U.S.?’ ” Farley told the media on the sidelines of the Detroit Auto Show the evening of Jan. 13. “I think that’s exciting. That’s fun to talk about the possibilities.”

A reporter quickly followed up, asking Farley how he replied to Trump’s question.

Farley paused and then said: “I worked at the Scion brand and brought that into the country and I loved that little car. But we’ll continue to look at the market. Affordability is a priority for us. But frankly a small minivan for six people in the U.S., I’m not sure that will be a high ticket.”

There’s a lot to unpack here, because when enthusiasts hear “Kei” car, we imagine a Daihatsu Copen or a Honda Acty truck. What Farley is alluding to is something like a microvan, more in the mold of a Suzuki Every Plus. Technically, most of these 6- or 7-passenger tiny vans are not really Kei, but that’s a difference most people don’t recognize, as many of these are extended versions of Kei platforms.

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Ford, actually, made one of these! The company’s Taiwan JV sold a version of the Suzuki Carry ST80 rebadged as the Ford Pronto for a few years (see the image at the top of this post). Based on what Farley said, that’s what President Trump is imagining.

I don’t know that there’s a market here for that, nor do I know that an American car company could find enough margin to build one of those here, but I kind of love the idea. This is not a conversation I’d ever imagine we’d be having as a car community. I’m highly skeptical this will come to be, though I’m tickled by the idea because I think it would be cool.

I also think Slate should just shift to building something like a six-passenger version of its platform.

The EU And US Trade Deal May Be Kaput

03 Hambach Production Restart Jan 2024
Source: Ineos

Speaking of Taiwan, that’s usually the island of massive geopolitical importance in the news because its geographically proximate neighbor seems to desperately want it even while the rest of the world and a majority of its own inhabitants are like “nooooooo, stop that.”

Now, it’s Greenland. Whether you believe the country is of such ginormous strategic importance that it’s worth buying or invading, or you think this is because President Trump is upset that he didn’t get a Nobel Peace Prize, is important, but the actual reasoning isn’t as relevant if you’re a European carmaker as the huge disruption it’s going to cause.

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If you’re a European carmaker, you’re saying “noooooo, stop that” to anyone who will listen. The EU and the United States tentatively have a new trade deal, and that trade deal would allow various brands to sell European-built cars on this side of the Atlantic with only a 15% import duty.

The President is now threatening to throw all of that out the window, according to Bloomberg:

Over the weekend, Trump blindsided a number of European countries, including Germany and France, with a plan to slap additional duties of 10% on imports from February, rising to 25% in June. German manufacturers rely on the US as a major source of sales and profits, and import models such as Mercedes’ S-Class to the country.

The carmakers are already under pressure from Trump’s tariffs, currently set at 15% for most vehicles and parts imported from the European Union. The US president roiled auto markets last year with extra duties that rose from around 2.5%, triggering profit warnings across the sector.

It’s pretty obvious why this would harm automakers building cars in Europe and selling them in the U.S., but this gets worse if you consider that European automakers could also impose duties on American-built cars going to Europe, which are mostly European luxury SUVs and crossovers from Mercedes, BMW, and Volvo.

The European Parliament is reportedly stopping work on the trade deal, and some European leaders are instead threatening to use something called the “trade bazooka” on the United States.

Here’s CNBC‘s explanation of that:

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Regional diplomats held an emergency meeting in Brussels on Sunday afternoon to discuss their response to Trump’s threat to escalate tariffs, with France reportedly pushing for the EU to use its strongest economic counter-threat to the U.S., known as the “Anti-Coercion Instrument” (ACI).

The much-vaunted instrument is seen as a nuclear option when it comes to economic counter-measures as it could see the EU restrict U.S. suppliers’ access to the EU market, excluding them from participation in public tenders in the bloc, as well as putting export and import restrictions on goods and services and putting potential limits on foreign direct investment in the region.

The lack of a trade deal could effectively kill an automaker like Ineos, which builds its cars in France, and a tariff on imports of American-built cars would make life for various European carmakers even worse. For now, the EU threat seems to be to re-implement suspended retaliatory measures, which impact targeted products like “bourbon, certain textile products, specific steel and aluminum products, motorbikes and boats.” Wisely, the EU kept cars out of this deal, as it would mostly harm them.

If the logic of politics is to keep your friends close and your enemies closer, then perhaps this move is designed to get even closer to other NATO nations by making them enemies?

All Of This Is Leading To A 50% Drop In The Price Of The Lotus Eletre

Lotus Eletre 6
Photo: Lotus Eletre

Just so you don’t think that only President Trump has used tariffs for political reasons, President Biden also put a 100% tariff on Chinese EVs during his term. I wrote that this specifically hurt Lotus, which planned to sell a bunch of Chinese-built EVs in the United States.

Canada has historically maintained a similar posture with regard to tariffs on Chinese-built cars, but the recent moves from the White House have led to the Canadian government allowing a growing number of imports.

While this might be good for Chinese brands, it’s maybe even better news for American and European brands that build cars in China but already have brands in Canada, as Bloomberg reports:

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At the top end of the market, the agreement has been welcomed by Geely-controlled sports car brand Lotus. Its Eletre sport utility vehicle, which starts at C$313,500 ($225,600), is one of the few luxury China-made EVs to have entered the region. The brand said in a statement it expects the selling price will drop by about 50% with the new tariff rate.

Polestar, another big name in Chinese billionaire Li Shufu’s Geely empire, has been particularly hard hit by the US and Canada’s imposition of hefty tariffs. After the US raised its duties, the company pivoted its focus to the Polestar 3, which is made in its factory in South Carolina, and the Polestar 4, produced in a contract manufacturing deal with a Geely and Renault SA joint venture in South Korea.

Polestar, Lotus, Volvo, and Tesla could all be winners here, which is a strange twist.

Renault To Make Drones

Drone Twingos
Meme via OSINTtechnical

It’s not uncommon in times of war for automakers to be turned into the producers of various armaments and weapons. With a war going on in Ukraine, the French government has made a deal with Renault and defense company Turgis Gaillard to build drones for that nation’s military:

Here’s the Financial Times on what’s been announced so far:

Renault said it would work with Turgis Gaillard to produce drones at two of its sites but declined to comment on the value of the contract or the number of drones to be produced.

“We were contacted for our production and creative industrial expertise. This project is ongoing and is led by the defence ministry. We confirm our participation in this project, at the request of the state,” Renault director Fabrice Cambolive told broadcaster BFM Business on Tuesday.

It’s not yet known if these will be weaponized or surveillance drones, although it looks like many of them will be built in the company’s Le Mans facility.

What I’m Listening To While Writing TMD

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Peter Frampton’s “Frampton Comes Alive!” is now 50 years old. This is the whole album in YouTube form, and it’s worth sticking around for the big finale (if you ruin it, he’s going to be pissed off!).

The Big Question

What would an affordable six-passenger minivan for Americans look like?

Top photo: Suzuki, Ford, DepositPhotos.com

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Joke #119!
Joke #119!
39 minutes ago

I listen to “Frampton Comes Alive” every couple of months or so. The whole two-record album. (On my iPod.)
Seen him in concert recently. He’s a bit of a goof, which is refreshing.
There is a video of him at the Oakland Coliseum (outdoor). Place is packed. During the organ solo on “Do You Feel Like We Do,” he gives his drummer a break and takes over for him.
My sister had this album in the 70’s, and when she was out of the house, I’d play it.

Manwich Sandwich
Member
Manwich Sandwich
1 hour ago

“The President Won’t Stop Talking About Tiny Japanese Kei Cars”
That’s because he’s nuts. He’s been over the edge for yonks and he’s only getting worse.

“The president today asked me, ‘Can you sell kei cars here in the U.S.?’ ” Farley told the media on the sidelines of the Detroit Auto Show the evening of Jan. 13. “I think that’s exciting. That’s fun to talk about the possibilities.””

Yeah, sure Jim, “fun”… that’s totally what it is. You know what was more fun Jim? How one of your employees told off Trump. THAT was fun.

But you ass-kissing Trump? That’s not fun… that’s pathetic.

The European Parliament is reportedly stopping work on the trade deal, and some European leaders are instead threatening to use something called the “trade bazooka” on the United States.”

Good.

And if that means Americans can’t get the BMW, Mercedes and VAG products they want, that’s an added bonus.

“Polestar, Lotus, Volvo, and Tesla could all be winners here, which is a strange twist.”

I wouldn’t bet on Tesla being a winner given Musk’s alignment with Trump. Many people throughout the world now won’t buy a Tesla at any price… myself included.

“What would an affordable six-passenger minivan for Americans look like?”

It already exists. It’s called the should-be-a-Dodge Chrysler Voyager/Caravan.

Dogpatch
Member
Dogpatch
1 hour ago

All it’s going to take is someone with a crypto account to transfer some $$$$$$ into a certain account owned by a orange skin colored person and Kei cars would be imported starting tomorrow with no tariffs or restrictions on anybody because they be important for national security.

Camp Fire
Member
Camp Fire
1 hour ago

What would an affordable 6-passenger minivan for Americans look like? It would look like the Mazda 5. I think it was named for the number of people who chose to buy one before production ended. Or something like that.

We had the option, and declined to keep it financially viable. It’s hard to blame any manufacturer for sticking with higher-margin products, especially when they’re easier to sell than “affordable” alternatives.

4moremazdas
Member
4moremazdas
24 minutes ago
Reply to  Camp Fire

If only I could believe any of the current idiocy ended in a Mazda 5 reboot (with a hybrid!!).

It wouldn’t be worth it at all, but I’d still be glad to see it return, ideally in time to replace mine.

Dogpatch
Member
Dogpatch
1 hour ago

Look people !
Over here I got a bright shiny object!
Anything and everything to distract from releasing the Epstein files and what the goon squads are doing to our country.

I don't hate manual transmissions
Member
I don't hate manual transmissions
1 hour ago
Reply to  Dogpatch

Rush Limbaugh (Presidential Medal of Freedom recipient during Trump 1.0) used to refer to them as Jack booted thugs, though I think he was expecting they’d be thrust upon the masses by the Libs to collect guns instead of people.

Funny how life works out sometimes.

Anoos
Member
Anoos
1 hour ago

He can talk all he wants.

No private company is going to tool up domestic production of kei cars under the present unstable conditions.

By the time they are ready to sell, the administration will be changed. Likely, they will enforce all the safety rules of passenger cars on these, which will make them heavier, slower, more expensive and ultimately less desirable.

If they do end up allowing them to be sold here as they are in Japan, the insurance companies will undo any potential money saved at purchase time.

Oberkanone
Oberkanone
1 hour ago

Less choice, less affordability. Only imports contribute to affordable Kei vehicles. No manufacturer on the planet can manufacture small vehicles in USA and make them inexpensive. Allow imports, establish quotas to test the Kei car idea or just forget about it.

StillNotATony
Member
StillNotATony
1 hour ago

Hey Matt! Did today’s Wordle SULLY the whole day for you?!?

Hah! Yeah, I got it in six…

Alpscarver
Member
Alpscarver
1 hour ago

A presidential sask about Kei cars sounds like we are in Jasonia

Arrest-me Red
Member
Arrest-me Red
1 hour ago
Reply to  Alpscarver

He and his buddies want the biggest cars. Let the people have Kei 🙂

Alpscarver
Member
Alpscarver
1 hour ago
Reply to  Alpscarver

*ask

Andy Individual
Andy Individual
1 hour ago

If you look at the proposed legislation carefully, it states the kei cars will also have to be right hand drive. That’s how Trump first saw them and there’s no changing his mind now.

Crank Shaft
Member
Crank Shaft
2 hours ago

I still have FCA on vinyl. Stolen from an older sibling…

M SV
M SV
2 hours ago

The US kei market seems like Toyota and maybe Honda leading the charge but I bet Toyota would get flack from some of their deadbeat importers that are still somehow a thing. But they need Toyota more then Toyota needs them. Subaru could an interesting way to start. They already make left hand drive with the way Toyota has cozied up they could probably get some kind of exemption to bring some in to test the market. Suzuki could spin up US operations again I guess but that would be quite the gamble.
Who knows maybe telo will end up with a bunch of funding out of it. Or other companies that were in stealth trying to build something similar.

We all used to pile in to sedans that were 6 passenger that shrunk in size in the 80s. Of the kei box vans like the nbox or every would work fine. Or there is the telo.

Last edited 2 hours ago by M SV
Scruffinater
Scruffinater
2 hours ago

Remarkably, this kei car thing might be the most baffling of Trump’s takes yet.

As to the big question, this sounds like one of those things where you can have any 2 of the 3 characteristics, but never all three at the same time. Affordable, six passenger minivan, and for Americans you say? I’ve got some ocean front property in Arizona for you my friend!

Cheap Bastard
Member
Cheap Bastard
1 hour ago
Reply to  Scruffinater

“Affordable, six passenger minivan, and for Americans you say?”

*Looks at Mazda5*

Yep.

86-GL
86-GL
1 hour ago
Reply to  Scruffinater

American auto manufactures have never been very good at building quality small cars and turning a profit. All of the current safety and emissions regulations make this even more of a challenge.

Here are the factors that are likely motivating Trump’s interest in Kei cars. He isn’t interested in their size- He likes them because they don’t have to meet the regulations normal vehicles do.

Trump and his administration know the USA is in for a challenging economic future. Their actions are helping to make this a reality, as detailed in Project 2025.

This theoretical recession will affect the working poor the hardest- Yet these same workers must remain mobile (in a country with poor transit infrastructure) to keep the economy functioning. What is an extreme conservative to do?

Encouraging automakers to build regular small cars in the USA would cut into profits or force innovation, so that’s a non-starter. Allowing cheap foreign cars into the country is also non-viable politically.
What Trump can do, (as a gift to corporations) is carve out safety and emissions standards for a specific class of vehicle.
This would allow manufacturers to build the needed cheaper cars, and maintain their profit without having to innovate. Who cares about air quality or the safety of the poors anyways?

Realistically, these deregulated vehicles wouldn’t resemble Kei cars at all. They would simply be your typical compact car or CUV, just shittier.

Last edited 54 minutes ago by 86-GL
JaredTheGeek
Member
JaredTheGeek
2 hours ago

Why Kei cars and not make vans the size of the original minivan, the Dodge Caravan. It was significantly smaller than what is available today and was fine. Statistically speaking, nobody will buy Kei cars in the US. The Rav 4 and the CRV are 3rd and 4th to full size Ford and Chevrolet trucks in sales.

Bags
Bags
2 hours ago
Reply to  JaredTheGeek

Because he doesn’t know anything about cars. Or the car market. Or people in the market for a car. Or people. I could keep going….
We’re talking about “groceries is an old fashioned term” guy, here.

4moremazdas
Member
4moremazdas
17 minutes ago
Reply to  Bags

As humans, we have a tendency to think those around us can empathize with our experiences because they’ve experienced something similar. This little mental shortcut is why so many think Trump is a working man’s president.

More people need to realize the man has never shopped for groceries, never done laundry, never ridden on public transportation (including commercial flights!!) never cooked for himself, never cleaned a toilet, never paid household bills, etc, etc, etc. He has absolutely zero grasp on what it’s like to be a working person.

YeahMoto!
Member
YeahMoto!
3 hours ago

Strangely enough, the owner of one of the first (and still one of the largest) K-Truck importers – Mayberry Mini Trucks, has a sailboat just down the dock from me and we were talking this weekend. While hes pretty much responsible for getting K-Cars legalized in NC and is well versed in the political side of the business, he was (as you can imagine) completely surprised by Trumps sudden affection for his product. He said he offered to be the K-Car Czar, but alas, no one has responded to his emails….

Dottie
Member
Dottie
3 hours ago

An affordable 6 passenger minivan for Americans would look like…a Dodge Journey. Too bad they killed it in favor of…uhh…more $60k Jeeps.

Hoonicus
Hoonicus
3 hours ago

Napkin sketch coming

EmotionalSupportBMW
EmotionalSupportBMW
3 hours ago

You can take the man out of the city, but you can’t take the city out of the man. Donny from Queens may have changed his address to Florida, but like most of Florida now, he’s just an outer-bough guy. The Kei car thing, is just pure unbridled New Yorker subway hot take. Just an idea that popped into his mine while watching the Jets tank. Now he’s just going to riff on it to anyone and everyone. Is there any understanding of why, no. Is he going to do anything about it, absolutely not. He’s just going to treat Jim Farley like he’s bumming a butt outside a bodega in Astoria. I’m sure the Don has a half-an-hour riff just ready to go. He’s just doing government like he’s calling into The Fan. We’re probably days away from sanctions being declared on the Red Sox, and a navel embargo against greater Boston.

Professor Chorls
Professor Chorls
2 hours ago

For some reason I read this entire post in a Bronx accent.

Scott
Member
Scott
3 hours ago

I dunno re: suddenly kei cars for America. Domestic manufacturers couldn’t seem to or won’t (or both) build regular smaller cars and make as much profit on them as they’d like. Ford kills the Fiesta and Focus, and now they’re somehow going to bring a Ka over here and manage to sell them? I sort of doubt it, completely apart from American consumer appetites for all things BIG.

Also (of course): it’s never been ‘illegal’ to sell kei-like cars or pretty much any kind of car here provided that it’s proven to comply with U.S. safety (and emissions and other) regulations. If a brand new Honda Acty did so, Honda could choose to sell it here now, before Trump’s Sharpie-merkin-scrawled executive order making kei cars great in America.

Since I was a wee lad, I’ve always had a hard time getting to sleep and staying there. Despite it surely being bad for my brain, I’ve found that keeping the radio on very low at my bedside helps somewhat… I can input that stream of new info rather than regurgitate my own existing data. It’s usually BBC World Service and the dog could care less… she snores through all of it. Of course, some nights are, when the news is filled with even more agita than usual, worse than others. Everyone’s making a fuss about Macron’s Davos speech, complete with aviator sunglasses (I took that as a Biden homage, but I’m sure it wasn’t intended as such) but I think Mark Carney’s speech was much more impressive. I know a leader shouldn’t be judged soley by his or her skills as an orator, but America hasn’t had a President that good at speechifying since Obama, and I kind of miss it.

Off topic: another very competent speaker is Ursula von der Leyen, who has great hair and is one of the nicest looking grandmas I’ve seen.

Rich Mason
Rich Mason
2 hours ago
Reply to  Scott

We could have had a nice grandma here. But no, we had to ask for 4 more years of lunatic like behavior.

Alter_Id
Alter_Id
3 hours ago

Kei cars would make the president’s hands look better by comparison and inflict less damage should the current Secretary of Defense decide to drive himself home at closing time.

Urban Runabout
Member
Urban Runabout
3 hours ago
Reply to  Alter_Id

Speaking of DUI hires….

Scott
Member
Scott
3 hours ago
Reply to  Urban Runabout

Oh, that’s funny! 😀

Luxrage
Member
Luxrage
3 hours ago

Asking ford if they could sell Keis in the US would make a lot more sense if ford still had the Ka, or if they actually built anything of that size in this country. Every Kei is going to be imported and have a price tag to match.

GM, your brightdrop factory was built with Suzuki to build Metros and Trackers… I smell a new joint Jimny project….

Last edited 3 hours ago by Luxrage
Scott
Member
Scott
3 hours ago
Reply to  Luxrage

Of course that’s right. It takes years to develop a new car and build out an assembly line to make it in quantity, by which time Trump will no longer be in office (I hope) and many of his more insane policies will have been reversed (again, I hope). So, Ford, GM, and Stellantis would have to import existing models from other markets, and all those models are built in other countries (convenient to the markets where they’re sold).

Urban Runabout
Member
Urban Runabout
3 hours ago
Reply to  Scott

“…by which time Trump will no longer be in office alive”

FIFY

FastBlackB5
FastBlackB5
2 hours ago
Reply to  Luxrage

If GM, or Ford, or even Chrysler wants to sell a cheap car in the US that people want to buy, They should be doing what they did 50 years ago when stupid and circumstance and government put them behind the 8 ball. They should make deals with the companies that are making the kind of cars people want to buy for the price they want to pay. Chrysler should be talking to BYD and making a platform to build a range extended EV in the US for 20k. Can they? maybe not. But would it be worth the risk? Maybe at this point. If they have some cash to invest, they probably have manufacturing capacity, they could make a deal that is more than just badge engineering. Maybe they build a model on license like many companies have before and still do.

Luxrage
Member
Luxrage
2 hours ago
Reply to  FastBlackB5

I’d love to see a return of the “Imported for Dodge” badging that some of the 80s cars had.

FastBlackB5
FastBlackB5
2 hours ago
Reply to  Luxrage

I had a friend in high school with a Ram 50 4wd that he called Rambo because it was scarred and made weird noises when you started it.

I wonder if we missed to window for really cheaper cars made in China or with Chinese companies. They are not so much cheaper in foreign markets that the more traditional options. I guess that’s international trade though….

B L
B L
3 hours ago

Our current president won’t stop talking about a lot of things, and the only connecting tissue between these subjects is that he doesn’t understand any of them.

Bags
Bags
2 hours ago
Reply to  B L

Have you ever sat in a series of meetings at work where the one guy keeps bringing up the same dumb idea in front of different audiences over and over because he has nothing useful to add but feels like he has to say something?

SlowBrownWagon
Member
SlowBrownWagon
2 hours ago
Reply to  Bags

That’s why I quit getting invited to PD meetings, that’s fine. My tombstone will read, ” Here lies SlowBrownWagon, he told you ‘so’ “

Icouldntfindaclevername
Member
Icouldntfindaclevername
3 hours ago

The only way to stop a bully, is to stand up to them
Europe should launch that economic bazooka and not look back

Urban Runabout
Member
Urban Runabout
3 hours ago

“If you don’t give me what I want, I’ll raise taxes on the people in my country” isn’t quite the flex the PedoFelon thinks it is.

As I’ve said more than once – The US needs the rest of the world more than the rest of the world needs the US.

Scott
Member
Scott
3 hours ago
Reply to  Urban Runabout

The problem is that a lot of Americans, including our current President, don’t think this is the case.

Matt Sexton
Member
Matt Sexton
2 hours ago
Reply to  Scott

The biggest problem we’ve had is that Trump is a stupid person’s idea of a smart person. Turns out there’s more stupid people out there than even I realized.

Waremon0
Member
Waremon0
2 hours ago
Reply to  Matt Sexton

The education of our youth keeps progressing so things like black history, indigenous people’s history, the Japanese internment, and so much more US history that many of us GenX and Millenials take as common knowledge, isn’t so common among older generations.

And we seem to be sliding back to that forced ignorance by the powers that be. It’s…worrying.

Kevin Cheung
Kevin Cheung
3 hours ago

GM actually has a modern 5/7-seater compact MPV that just went out of production – the Chinese market Chevy Orlando. 1.4 turbo and you can even option it with a six speed manual! Same platform as the Buick Envision too, parts and servicing wouldn’t be an issue. Handsome looking car too.

Alter_Id
Alter_Id
3 hours ago
Reply to  Kevin Cheung

The first-generation Orlando was sold globally – even in Canada for a couple of years. It had hinged rear doors rather than sliders and I suspect I would have preferred a Mazda 5 anyway (loved my first-gen Mazda 3 and occasionally wondered what it would have been like if I’d chosen the 5 on the lot instead.)

Scott
Member
Scott
3 hours ago
Reply to  Alter_Id

I drove and liked the Mazda 5. It wasn’t as chuckable and willing as the 3, but still nice to drive for what it was. The odds of finding a minty one now for less than insane BaT money are almost nil. 🙁

VS 57
VS 57
3 hours ago

Very hard pass on the Frampton, heard it WAY too much the first time around.

Toomanyfumes
Member
Toomanyfumes
3 hours ago
Reply to  VS 57

Was constantly on the radio. “Wah Wah Wah Wah Wah Waaaaaah Wah!

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