Many years ago, I found myself at a Cars & Coffee, or Caffeine and Cars, or perhaps an Espresso and Eagle Talons. I have many adventures, so the details sometimes blur together at the edges. What’s important is that I’d borrowed a Rolls-Royce that week, which was a mistake, so I begged my colleague Travis to take it off my hands so I wouldn’t be forced to park a car worth all my possessions (combined x50) on the rough streets of pre-Apple-Store Williamsburg.
So we met up at Kappuccinos Und Karmann Ghias. He swapped for a…. Mazda? I think it was a Mazda. And I gave him a Rolls-Royce. As far as trades go, it felt like a steal to me. A Rolls-Royce is an incredible object. With some offense to Adrian, it is a work of art. But no one street parks a Basquiat in Brooklyn, is all I’m saying.
When we were there, we happened to bump into a few young car owners who were excited to meet a couple of car writers. I’ll never forget meeting a kid in his 20s with an Alfa Romeo 4C Spider. Either through hard work or the luck of birth, this guy ended up with some money, and he used that money to acquire the most Italian sports car he could afford. Given that a 4C sold for around $70,000 back then, this was a car that was many times cheaper than even the most affordable new Ferrari or Lamborghini.
I have a soft spot for the 4C, which is a strange little car with a pleasing exhaust note, reasonably spry handling, and an aesthetic that makes it look more expensive than it ever was. It’s also a Fiat parts bin sports car with all of the problems a Fiat parts bin sports car is likely to have.
Steering? It does steer, but not in a way that’s pleasing to anyone who has driven a 718, or Miata, or even a 2006 Honda Accord. The top moves with all the enthusiasm of your average Italian assembly line worker after a long lunch. The engine is laggy as hell, and the transmission is controlled through a set of buttons modeled, I presume, after a Dutch PlayStation controller.
I didn’t say any of this to the Alfa owner, and I remember Travis politely nodding along when the guy described how great the motor was and, specifically, how much he loved the way the unassisted steering felt. I couldn’t help it, so I did ask which other sports cars he’d driven.
“None! This is the first fast car I’ve ever owned or driven,” he said.
I’m pretty sure I just said “Congrats,” but in my mind I was thinking “Never drive any other sports car and you’ll be blissfully happy.” It’s a cliché, but granting that the Alfa sounds better and arguably looks better, he could have spent about half as much on a Miata and had a superior driving experience.
You can play this game all day. Another friend, who did have experience driving cars, really wanted a 911. He was torn between a used 997 and a then-new first-year 991. I told him, purely based on steering feel, he’d be happier with the 997. He ended up with a 991 and, against my advice, drove someone’s 997 after the purchase. Suddenly, the 991 didn’t seem so great, and he got rid of it.
None of this is to say that my opinions are gospel or that the Alfa owner didn’t get a chance to drive a Boxster and still felt the Alfa was better. It’s possible. This is really just my way of saying that sometimes ignorance is bliss.
I mention this all because I got a chance to drive the automatic Toyota Corolla GR Premium. I’d wanted the manual, of course, but only the automatic was in the press fleet, and between a GR with an automatic or waiting potentially months for one with a clutch pedal, I took the auto. Plus, Thomas already drove the manual and loved it, so maybe providing a perspective on the Corolla GR with the automatic would be helpful to you, our readers.
My initial thought was that comparing the automatic and the manual would be the best way to understand the car, but the more I drove the automatic, the happier I was I hadn’t. I enjoyed this car and some portion of that enjoyment probably came from ignorance.
The Basics
Engine: 1.6-liter turbocharged three-cylinder
Transmission: Eight-speed direct automatic transmission
Drive: all-wheel-drive with front/rear Torsen limited slip differentials
Output: 300 horsepower, 295 lb-ft of torque
Fuel Economy: 19 MPG City, 27 MPG Highway, 22 Combined
Body style: Five-door hatchback
Base price: $47,515
Price as-tested: $50,144 including $1,135 Freight Charge
What Are You Paying $50,000 For?
Almost everyone I saw who saw the car was initially excited. It looks like a pocket rally hatchback, because it is a pocket rally hatchback. It is a three-cylinder motor that’s tuned to freakin’ Valhalla to produce 300 horsepower. Again, that’s 300 horsepower from an engine that displaces less than I do at an all-you-can-eat taco buffet. By comparison, a C3 Corvette needed about three times as much displacement and five more cylinders to achieve the same amount of power. This isn’t to say that this engine doesn’t come with risks, but it’s an incredible thing to observe.
Once I told people this cost $50,000 as equipped (Premium Plus), they were a little less enthused. Even when I said that the basest base model only costs $40,000 they still didn’t seem to totally get it.
But even without driving it, if you love cars you should get it. You’re not playing for soft-touch plastics or advanced driving aids. If anything, you’re paying for the absence of those things. The $50,000 is the cost for this car to exist at all. Toyota doesn’t have to do this and understands, reasonably, that for $50,000, most people would just buy the biggest Highlander or 4Runner they could afford. This car is not for those people. It’s for you. Or me.
Plus, someone had to develop a version of the company’s eight-speed automatic transmission and make it work in a car that’s supposed to feel like a rally car. How? Here’s how Toyota explains it:
In designing the available 8-speed GAZOO Racing Direct Automatic Transmission (DAT), Toyota focused on achieving the fastest possible downshift speed. Optimized for sporty driving, the DAT control software delicately senses the way the driver steps on the brakes and operates the accelerator. With these inputs, it anticipates when gear shifting is optimal even before changes in vehicle behavior occur, achieving a gear selection that reflects the driver’s intentions and, thus, leads to shifting that is similar to that of professional drivers.
The DAT allows drivers to focus more on acceleration/braking and steering maneuvers, so drivers may be able to drive faster if they decide to hit the track. As a result, it opens up possibilities for a wider range of drivers to enjoy sports track driving.
The Toyota GR development team used circuit and rally driving courses as a basis for setting the DAT’s close gear ratio. Increasing the number of gears from six to eight allows the transmission to have closer ratios and helps maximize delivery of engine power and torque to the wheels and enables optimal performance. Even casual highway driving has an energetic feel, due to the eight-speed transmission optimizing RPMs while at cruising speeds.
Developed for the track, you say? It’s here I have to make a little admission. We had Lime Rock Park’s autocross booked for the day, and I sort of asked Toyota for permission to take the car. Someone at Toyota said they were worried about tires being available for the next driver since there was another loan directly after mine, so they’d “prefer [I] didn’t.” Taking that preference into account, I drove the car to the track and beat on it sufficiently on backroads near the track on the way up, as requested.
Buuut… I had a car and an autocross course. I knew I could take a couple of laps and let it cool down without causing any sufficient wear to the tires, which I did. I also realized that in a situation where the car could only be driven carefully to maintain brakes/tires/fluids I should make sure the person doing the bulk of those laps had a better sense of cars and tracks than I did.
Enter friend/announcer/race car driver/mogul/airline upgrade appreciator Parker Kligerman.
What Does A Real Race Car Driver Think?
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Hi, Parker here. When I was around 10 years old — which would’ve been in the year 2000 — I vividly remember going on car websites to look at supercars, but I always ended up gravitating to the “rally cars for the street.” To me, they were something special. First off, rally racing is some of the most badass racing in the world. And second, the cars were pure superhero stuff — normal-looking street cars with fire-breathing, crackling, burbling turbocharged engines, white wheels, and an ability to absolutely send it on snow, gravel, or tarmac.
As I got older, I always threatened to get a WRX or a Lancer, but it felt like we in America never got the real stuff — the special, true rally-spec versions. Then came the Ford Focus RS, and I seriously considered buying one. I test-drove it. I negotiated with a dealer. I didn’t end up pulling the trigger, but the thought stuck with me.
I had an Audi A3 for a while, and before I sold it, I even threatened to turn it into a rally car and do a YouTube series about it (I still wish I did that). As a NASCAR driver, what drew me to rally cars is that — unlike our race cars, which have absolutely nothing in common with their road-going versions — a rally car with the right engine on the street feels damn close to the real deal.
So when the GR Corolla finally came to U.S. shores, I remember telling Matt, “Holy shit, sign me up.” And then… I never got to drive one. Until the other day — when Matt invited me to take one around Lime Rock. Even though it was the automatic, I loved it. I felt like I was 10 again. But this time, unlike the kid staring at forbidden fruit on a website, I was actually driving the kind of car I always dreamed would come to America.
We did a One Lap Review — a new series where we take cars up to Lime Rock’s autocross course and give you all the thoughts a roughly one-minute lap can provide. In this one, my first reaction was that the GR Corolla feels like a pent-up bulldog. From its stance to the way it behaves when you get into the throttle off a corner, it just feels like all of its muscle is being pulled back like a rubber band, ready to explode forward in an angry, bulldog-trying-to-get-a-bone kind of way.
Once you’re in the corner, all that energy shifts to the tires, which somehow manage to grip the track and pivot you around faster than a Twitter crypto bro pivoting to AI.
This turning ability is most obvious when you give the car a beat in the middle of the corner — just off the brake and before getting back on the throttle — where it feels like the inside front tire grabs the apex and pulls the car around. Then you get back into the gas, and unleash that slingshot effect all over again.
Even though it has multiple settings that adjust the amount of work each axle does under acceleration, in every mode, it still exhibits a slight understeer on exit. You sense the front tires are hitting their limit, like an intern who’s just been told they have to come back to the office. It’s too much.
But despite the short time I had in it, the GR Corolla absolutely lived up to the superhero fantasy I always imagined a rally car for the street would deliver. In our One Lap Review, I gave it a 9 out of 10.
On a tight autocross track, this car will make you think you’re ready for the WRC.
Will I Ever Drive The Manual? (Back to Matt)
Yeah, probably. As much as I loved this car, I suspect the fun of an AWD rally hatch with a stick that you can fit in your pocket will overwhelm my desire to preserve the memory of this specific car. My guess is that I’ll be able to hold onto this memory a little longer, though.
Photos: Author, Unless Otherwise Noted
So my question is this.
Why do the 2 cars pictured have different shaped hoods, and the red one has vents in it?
I actually like the red one better.
But 50K for this is just friggin’ nuts.
For me this review is word salad. I disagree with those who appreciate the content and structure.
Thank you for this Matt and Parker! The perfect quick, morning-coffee review about a car I like but will almost certainly never own myself. 🙂
PS: hey Toyota! Please consider it an act of charity and/or mercy to offer a manual transmission on the regular Corolla hatch here in the states. I know only a few Americans will buy one, but those few will really love you for it. 😉
They did. No one bought it. They no longer do.
I’m aware of that, hence my plea.
I am not sure I would want to live with those cramped quarters daily at that price.
The G70 is already kind of small to me, but it checks all the same boxes. And then some. well, maybe not the 27 on the highway, but that is not a selling point for me. Toyota Quality would be the one area I could not argue though.
3.3T SPORT PRESTIGE AWD
MSRP
$55,000
Engine
3.3L Twin-Turbo V6
Transmission
8-Speed Automatic
Horsepower Horsepower*
365
Torque
376
MPG CITY/HWY MPG CITY/HWY*
17/23
and Hyundai reliability!
/s
Right, because the GR Corolla has been such a paragon of Toyota reliability and is sure to last a long time! /s
It’s all relative, my friend. And Toyota shits on Hyundai each time.
’23 GR Corolla owner here, I wanted them when they first announced them but got tired of the limited inventory & stupid markups. Last June I decided to look again after seeing one in traffic finally.
Found mine with 6k miles and extra wheels, some nice aftermarket stuff the 70yr old SCCA member did (he decided it had too many nannies and sticks to his NSX and 911). We worked out a deal for $36.5k and I brought him a check the next day for $23K. (Rest was already as a downpayment if I went new.)
Sunday was the 1yr anniversary and still look forward to driving it every day. I’d be tempted with THIS auto if I had to (at 58 I’m one bad knee away from an auto). As for $50k I feel like if you look around even a little you won’t pay that, based on the forums and FB groups.
“Steering? It does steer, but not in a way that’s pleasing to anyone who has driven a 718, or Miata, or even a 2006 Honda Accord”
I assume you mean the I4 Accord. The nose heavy 2006 V6 Accord does steer, but not in a way that’s pleasing to anyone who has driven an I4 2006 Honda Accord.
As a 68-year-old owner of a ’17 Accord V6, it does fine. I don’t drive 10 tenths hardly ever but it has steered around every situation where I have needed it to, including an idiot trying to pass oncoming into my lane on a 75 mph two-lane in Texas where I had to get into ABS and go over rumble strips onto a shoulder and then further off into the weeds, to not get hit, it handled it all and I am still on the planet and the car is still in one piece.
My 89-year-old mom’s ’06 I4 Accord had something going on where the first few stops in the morning had brakes so grabby that I kept telling her to take to a mechanic, but after the first few stops it was okay. After that, it was fine. Until she wrecked it a couple months ago after apparently stepping on the wrong pedal coming up to traffic.
(Since my mom was always in that car when I drove it, I was not exploring the limits of adhesion.)
Nobody got hurt. The car was written off as totaled by the insurance company and she wasn’t capable of jumping through all the hoops the state wanted her to go through to keep her license.
My brother and I were happy to have the state take away the keys we had been asking her to surrender for a couple of years.
I bought my ’06 I4 Accord brand new on the same day that my sister bought her brand new ’06 V6 Accord. Her car was one trim level above mine and both had the 5spd auto and similar features so they were as close a comparison as one could hope for. I drove her car several times so I was able to get a good feel for it compared to mine.
The V6 was hands down more powerful but nose heavy compared to the I4. It was something one could adjust to quickly and I imagine would have been a lot less noticeable in parts of the country with straight roads. But hopping from one car into another really made the weight in the nose stand out. In a back to back comparison the I4 is much more agile while the V6 is growlier and faster in a straight line. I don’t recall noticing any great difference in the brakes between the two.
She sold her car many years ago while I’ve kept mine. Overall it’s been quite good for me. Since you mentioned it though I do agree the cold start brakes could be considered grabby (or maybe powerful) sometimes depending on your perspective. It’s never been enough for me to be concerned about, I usually only notice it when I haven’t driven it in a while and forget all about it after the first stop.
Interesting opportunity to do a side-by-side comparison and I can easily see how yours would feel more agile than her V6 and I don’t doubt it. Mine is 11 years newer. And I haven’t driven an I4 version but it’s likely more agile as well. But it’s not like the V6 version is an instant understeer machine.
I have no doubt anyone who owned a Gen7 V6 would have been happy with the handling but only if the were unaware of the better handling of the I4, just as someone with that I4 would have been happy with the power of the I4 having never driven the V6.
And of course my opinion only applies to that generation.
Oh and sidewall. My Accord has a generous amount since it only has 16″ rims while hers had 17s.
Sidewall FTW!!
Sidewalls are totally underated as far as ride quality goes. My car has 215/15 R17s. The way I drive, I don’t need anything wider or with stiffer sidewalls. YMMV.
Spend $50k on a rally hot hatch with the auto?
That’s a paddlin.
I enjoyed the article, but I am wondering what was in Matt’s cocaine this morning, because he sounds unusually punchy at the beginning. 😛
Gonzo journalism with nothing stronger than coffee (and cars.)
That article did seem like a big plate of word salad. Maybe he’s in England with the rest of the Goodwood gang, jet-lagged and maybe a little lubricated. I’ll cut him some slack.
Even though I’m not On The Slack. Or their Slack. As much as I’d like to be. Some days, at least.
And I had to factcheck myself, because I wanted to call it Greenwood, which is a neighborhood and car event in nearby Seattle.
And also, there is no way I would pay that kind of money for that car. Ever.
Love that autos aren’t all bad! I’d love to see an Alpha 4c VS one of these…
For $50k you could get a new Civic Si, and cleanest NC Miata money can buy—with all the Flyin Miata goodies. I’ve not driven one of these, but I have sat in them a number of times, and it is without a doubt a Corolla on the inside. Neat car, but for $50k, the field of options is vast.
A manual one got traded in at the Land Rover dealer I work at, and I hopped in it and drove one briefly, just to see how it feels compared to my MK8 GTI. It definitely is quick, but yeah, it’s a 22k car with nicer seats, that’s fast. The interior on my MK8, while of course nowhere near a luxury car, is much better than the Corolla.
I do wonder about how I’d do with one of these. I’m in my mid 40s and definitely feel a little more of the “I’d like a little more luxury” in my car. And being in NE Ohio, roads are shit. While this would be tons of fun, I have this nagging feeling a Si (or Integra) would ultimately be easier for me to live with.
I am a bit older than you and wondering the same thing. You have better roads than me, and I’m thinking of giving up on my 6MT dreams for a nice grand touring car that can kick-it when I’m in the mood.
All of the manuals ride rough-enough that my family has said ‘No thanks’.
The people I have to live with!
i’m probably a few more years away from “f it, I’ll just get a Lexus LS (or GS)”. I figure another ~5 years with a Si or similar and then my back won’t want to deal with the harsh ride and high strung car. Between still kind of needing a dad mobile, wanting it to be fun (and a 6MT), but also recognizing my overweight butt getting in and out of something that punishes my spine, it’s a hard target for me to hit 🙂
by the time I’m old enough to afford an awesome car like that, I’ll be old enough to think twice too!
Life is cruel to some of us. That’s exactly what I’m running into.
That is a lot of words for a sports car with an automatic. Didn’t even get all the way through.
Bleh. That “argument” is getting old. Why spend the time to comment if you can’t finish the article?
Yep, lazy stupid take that you replied to. “Look at me, I’m edgy because I shit on automatic transmissions”
My time spent commenting was more valuable to me than finishing the article.
Had a hard enough time wading through the first section of “here’s a life story that has nothing to do with the car.”
I’d just like the writers to give me more (for free, I guess I get what I pay for) than, “It’s a fun/decent/ok car, and I dare not say anything negative lest they stop providing cars in the future.”
Because that is what all these reviews seem like.
They say negative things in reviews when warranted. Dismissing a car altogether because it has an automatic transmission is doing the readers a disservice. If all the fun cars they review had to have a manual, they’d review almost nothing. This is 2025, not 1975.
Car reviewers (here and elsewhere) don’t really say a lot of negative things about cars because there aren’t bar cars anymore, except Vinfast (and maybe Alfa), and that was described in detail in every review I’ve read. Badness shows up well past the time the review is published, with recalls and Consumer Reports and other quality reports.
There was going to be an explanation of that, but he didn’t get all the way through the post.
Whew, I was afraid I missed it because I didn’t get all the way through the
This is like posting a negative review for a restaurant you never ate at
I’m sure it’s fun to drive. But if I want pizza and the restaurant is serving sushi, why would I go there?
More like this please. awesome content.
$50k?!
It’s not that much, really. In 2005 money that’s $30.5K. A Golf R32 that year was $29.6K. A WRX STI would have been $33k. Meanwhile you could option a Lancer Evo up to nearly $35k. That’s $58k today.
For a car as bonkers as the GR considering the engineering involved, it’s quite a deal.
Yeah but in 2005 people could afford $30.5k. That’s the difference.
Some still can – and even more. The median household income is up after adjusting for inflation. However, the distribution is different with fewer people in the middle and more on each end of the curve.
2005 median household income $69,310 (In 2023 dollars)
2023 median household income $80,610
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEHOINUSA672N
Well that’s not Toyota’s issue, is it? They have to make money on their product somehow.
It’s still a lot for a heated up Corolla. People complain all the time that the Nissan Z is too expensive for an “old chassis”, even though it starts at ~$40k and rides on a unique chassis with all unique bodywork, and only sells a few thousand units a year. This shares most of its body panels and interior with a car they sell a million of every year and somehow it still costs $50k?
Same as it was for the Focus RS. It was a $18k car in 2018 priced at $42k with all of its rally modifications. That would be around $23k today up to $53k.
I know gas mileage isn’t the point of this car but oof 22mpg combined is not good.
that is strange. my ’17 fiesta ST with a mild tune is still netting me 32 mpg around town. I’m old and don’t hammer it that often… only when I get a chance. 🙂
obviously my ST isn’t in the 300hp realm but you’re not using all 300 to drive all the damn time.
I get exactly the same in my ’14 FiST with 106k miles.
I was able to get my stock MK8 up to 41 mpg on a 4 1/2 hour drive last year. That’s almost 10 mpg higher than the stated mileage. Yes it was highway driving, but still seemed extremely impressive.
Looking at Fuelly to get another bit of data, it shows the range is from 20-41mpg with the average being in the 25-26mpg area.
That’s better at least, the EPA is usually close but not this time.
I have a 23 GR and I’m not sure how the EPA got such a low number. It’s pretty easy to get 31-34 on the highway and 22-24 around town.
This is the perfect description of why I don’t want the automatic. I don’t begrudge anyone who chooses it if they like. But I want a hot hatch to have fun in as a daily, not for track use, so I want to do as much of the driving myself as possible. But, to reference another topic here, I like the way the Alfa 4C steers. If I were attempting to get competitive lap times on a track, I might change my mind.
But wanting to row my own gears is also the reason I would get a Civic R over the Corolla. The shifter in the Honda is a work of art.
The best part is that it’s a regular automatic and not that stupid DCT shit. DCT/DSG shit has a lot of problems and doesn’t quite feel right in D in traffic.
I even prefer a (recent version) CVT to a DCT/DCG.
Do you now?
So glad I wasn’t drinking coffee.
Soooo where exactly is this Espresso and Eagle Talons?
I knew someone would 😛
It’s all I could think about while reading this article
I’d attend just to see the DSM hero’s from my youth, that appear to no longer exist on the streets
It’s the week after Roasts and Renaults.
In my area, it’s a monthly event that’s part of the local AMCs and Americanos.
Half the size of my engine in displacement and cylinder count, 50 less HP/TQ stock for stock, weighs 1k lbs less, yet returns worse mpg.
Without knowing what you’re driving, I would think this garden tractor-sized engine needs at least some boost to move the car a lot more of the time than yours and has to run shorter gears to stay in the power band, plus the drag coefficient is pretty bad for a modern car (.35) with large frontal area for its class from those fairly wide tires and flared arches.
Same power and mpg as my (Toyota) minivan.
I’m sure this car is awesome to drive as is; a version with the 2GR V6 instead is a fun hypothetical.
It’s also boosted into oblivion and in a car for a demographic that doesn’t give a rat’s ass about fuel economy. The WRX gets even worse mileage and people still buy those. I’m sure they could eke out a few extra MPGs with programming if they really wanted to but why would they?
This is a tooner car through and through. I’d imagine most of these are already modded within the first 6-8 weeks and getting even worse MPGs than stock. You have an Autobahn missile…fuel economy was hardly priority 1 for the folks at the Audi S/RS division but I’d imagine that it does matter to a decent amount of Audi buyers.
Slash Ze Germans make the most efficient pure ICE powertrains in the game. The Golf R/S3 can get mid 30s on the highway and anything with a B58 is capable of similar. Hell when paired with their mild hybrid system the new 540i gets 26/33, which is nucking futs for a 4500 pound, 400 horsepower, AWD luxobarge.
Maybe it just doesn’t excel on the EPA cycle and real world is better if you can keep your foot out of it, but I still contend it’s a dumb engine. This isn’t a Koenigsegg, it’s a car for the masses built from a Corolla. There’s no value in pushing a 3 cylinder to racecar HP/L figures. There’s no tangible benefit, it gets 2mpg combined better than a Silverado and roughly the same as a ~450HP V6 in a 4,000lb AWD sedan.
The only place this car works is on a track, but they suffer on the track and seem to overheat after only 15 minutes of spirited driving in warm climates, so this “pocket rally hatchback” would be lucky to survive the first stage of a rally.
Personally, I would’ve rather seen a Corolla XRS, with a ~250HP boosted 4cyl, less boy racer kit, a bit more polish and a more reasonable starting price. At $40-50k it’s competing with cars that have similar performance, but do all the other regular car stuff way better.
Yes, I’m pretty positive the engineers at Toyota could have designed this very same engine, with it’s low weight, small displacement, and high horsepower, to get 100 mpg if only they’d taken into consideration the potential heartbreak of an unknown dude commenting on a niche car blog. What were they thinking?
“…and he used that money to acquire the most Italian sports car he could afford.”
A fool and his money are soon parted.
But I’m sure what he’s lost in maintenance and depreciation, he’s more than made up for in “poon tang”. His words, not mine (I assume).
As for the Corolla, I’m happy it exists. I’m happy the automatic also exists. That said, why Toyota didn’t make a 30k Civic Si/VW GLI fighter version of the Corolla is beyond me.
To be honest, I’d be a buyer for a normal corolla hatch with a manual transmission. Just to have a tiny bit of engagement. No need for upgraded suspension or more power, although decent wheels / tires would be nice since I won’t replace those until I wear them out.
They make one like that. A hatch with a stick around 30K. It has a Mazda badge though
The 3 was in the running last time around. The bolted-on tablet (probably better than the Corolla, but still not awesome) and FWD were marks against it for my wife’s year-round commuter. I hope there is a third pedal option available on their next refresh.
They stopped selling it here when the GR came out, possibly to protect the GR 🙁
The only good reason for the GR would be to pull through some sales of lesser Corollas at higher margins and volumes.
Exactly the kind of cars that made Toyota (and Japanese cars in general) such hit in the US not long ago.
Somewhere along the way Toyota really drank the GM Kool-aid.
Nearly every US ad feels like “What’s a Prius?! A guy like you should be driving your market-tested family around in a 60k truck.”
The hate of automatics almost always seems to come from people who experienced pre-2000s era economy car automatics: sloppy, dumb as a box of hammers, and slow.
Modern autos are LIGHT YEARS ahead of the performance and drive feel of older models. Yes, there are still crappy transmissions in some late model cars, but overall an auto in a modern car is fine at worst and some are even “better” at timing than a human.
Want a manual? Get one! Want an auto? Get one! But don’t get the wrong one just because of what oldheads on the internet say. I am one of those oldheads and was fairly anti-auto until I drove a few new ones.
If I’m buying a smaller car, I am making trade-offs. I’m generally giving up interior material quality, features and high-speed stability. Going with something at the GR Corolla’s level, I assume you’re also giving up a good bit in NVH versus ‘normal’ vehicles at the same price.
In return I want responsiveness and driver engagement. A manual transmission goes a long way on both of those.
Definitely agree. The ZF8 was the transmission that got me to come around on the automatic. I had a 2013 320i 6 speed, and every time it was in the shop, my loaner was a 328i with the ZF8. It was the first auto that didn’t make me feel like I was missing something by not having the stick.
I don’t have a problem with the offering of autos (until manuals are completely replaced), but I completely disagree about the superiority over old. Modern ones are more efficient and shift faster if you just want to accelerate in a mostly straight line, but I preferred the drive experience of the old ones because they didn’t constantly hunt through having too many gears and weren’t burdened by horrible control software that second guesses every input, constantly wants to upshift to the highest possible gear at all times and do anything else with the utmost reluctance, or causing shift delays or not all the requested downshifts when the input control (often a placebo, like an elevator “close door” button) doesn’t feel like transmitting the request at all. Then, if you do manage to get a gearbox that responds, you have to bang down several gears in sequence to get into the place in the power band you want. There’s just too much gear overlap and “smart” electronics and I find them completely frustrating. At least they seem to not shift mid corner anymore.
I believed all this stuff I read about new autos being great until I drove some and found that I even prefer the feel of a CVT to all these terrible multi-speeds (though I would trust the longevity of the latter more). I certainly never thought anything would make me feel like a 3 or 4 speed slushbox was a desirable experience until I drove modern boxes. When an old auto kicked down—forced to by your demand through throttle travel via an actual relay—they didn’t have to drop several gears and there wasn’t enough gear overlap to hunt around. When I activated a kickdown, I knew what it was going to do and got it and/or I could manually shift it into its lower gear to hold it there through a turn or while waiting for an opening to pass rather than try to work some paddle, button, or stick that only seems to meekly request the desired course of action like the Cowardly Lion from the Great and Powerful Computer behind the dashboard.
Couldn’t agree more.
I think a satisfying box has gear spacing slightly narrower than the powerband. That means if you shift right as it’s starting to taper off, you’ll land right where it starts to build up, and if you wind it all the way out, you’ll land at peak torque in most gears. Likewise, if you’re cruising at highway speed, one downshift should land you in the powerband, where the engine is making the fun noises and pulling with gusto.
An 8-speed gearbox would be fairly at home in something with a 2-stroke or a redline north of 9000rpm, something with a narrow powerband that really needs that close gearing, not paired with a modern engine that produces peak torque from 2000-6000rpm.
If I wanted all the torque all the time, I’d buy an EV, and if range or price were the sticking point, I’d have a CVT.
8-speeds are great for towing, though.
The hate isn’t because of the 90s era autos (although they did suck), it’s that without any sort of connection to the car you don’t really get a feel for what it’s about.
Once all the feel is hidden behind an auto of any type, it’s just a really fast appliance. If your goal is the ultimate lap times, then the fast driving appliance is your tool. If you want to actually feel like you’re a part of the motoring experience then shifting yourself is the only way to go.
I liken it to golf. You hit a nice drive and everything just ‘feels’ right. You made that perfect swing, got things lined up, timed right and BOOM, the ball flies right where you wanted it. Yes, you could just pick up the ball and get in the cart and drive down the fairway and set the ball in the same spot. Easy, way more accurate and far more reliable. Why even use a club when you can just pick the ball up by hand? Why even play the game? The ball in hand in the cart is far more advanced than hitting it with a club and relying on skill to get you there.
Growing up in the UK there was another prejudice because you either take a ‘full’ driving test, or automatic-only, which means you will only ever be able to drive autos. As a teenager there was the feeling (somewhat justified) that you only did the auto test if you were so bad at driving you couldn’t pass a driving test while changing your own gears. Plus this was in the 90’s, and as you say, automatic transmissions then were pretty rubbish despite being more expensive.
I actually find automatics difficult to drive, because I have to fight years of muscle memory making me want to hit the clutch, which results in me hitting the brake with my left foot every time I want to change gear.
I want a manual because of the engagement.
I am reading reviews about driving the Lexus IS350 using the paddle shifters, and they talk about the nearly half-second lag between some of the shifts. Unless you have a modern short-throw shifter, it takes that long for a normal person to shift a manual. The difference is that with the manumatic, you are waiting instead of doing.
I am trying to convert from a “Manuals are best!” to a “Automatics are very good” mentality.
That said, I think I’d rather feel an automatic shifting than to drive pure electric, with no-brainer power on demand. That said, I still need to set up a test-drive of a pure electric car.
I only want this car with a third pedal.
It doesn’t need to make sense. This is a ridiculous vehicle and every part of it should be silly. If you don’t get ‘it’ then it’s not for you. (‘It’ could be anything from the Corolla interior in a $50k vehicle to the 1.6 liter three-banger cranking out 300hp or the undercooled driveline)
Honestly with how many of these spontaneously total themselves without crashing I think it’s safe to say the drivetrain is horribly overstressed, and even if I were still buying ICE cars, I wouldn’t buy one of these now, though I may have been one of the unlucky impatient bastards who bought one before the public knew of all the drivetrain issues.
How many have? I can only find articles about two since the vehicle was launched and they made 6600 for the USDM the first year alone. I can’t find easy breakdown numbers for 2024 or early numbers on 2025.
Now I know where the phrase “Mat(t) the throttle” comes from.
Or the lesser-used, but still relevant, “Matt! The throttle!” right before the turbo detonates.
I’m glad the car exists, but the engine seems far too on edge for me and the price too high. If they didn’t have the ’86, I’d be interested in an in-between spec. I had a Focus ST that I paid $23k for, which was a steal. The RS was more than double that for what a lot of people (even owners of both) reported wasn’t as fun an experience because it was too capable, plus it had crap mileage (ST, OTOH, averaged about 30 mpg over 180k miles). The other thing for me is that you’re paying that much and get the interior of a car that costs less than half as much at the low end. Sure, they throw in different seats and slap some slaughterhouse-scrapings top grain leather on the lower models’ grained plastics, but most of it is still there and the build quality is the same. I’m not a big interior snob as long as it functions well and the seats are comfortable (that’s the other issue for me with heavy bolstered sport seats), yet the price and the level of build quality in the rest of that price segment is tough to ignore. I get why it’s that way and that it’s the only way the vehicle could exist, but it doesn’t pass my personal value/money math. In this particular car’s case, for a hatchback, it’s also lacking in utility as the rear cargo area is not very large. Of course, it’s ultimately a niche car that’s intended to sell outside of many peoples’ personal value equations and I hope they sell as well as can be expected, especially as there just aren’t many interesting cars left anymore at any price.
It would definitely be cool to get a detuned version of this engine with maybe 200-250hp in a FWD Corolla, something to fight the Si/GTI head-on instead of punching down at the Civic Type R and Elantra N.
I also think FWD cars teach the driver a lot more than AWD ones do, especially with modern systems that can bias torque on demand to balance the chassis under acceleration. I’d wager many Focus RS and Golf R drivers who can’t rotate a car off-throttle would have learned how to, if only they had an ST or GTI, and would be better drivers for it.
The ST was great for that, too. Stability off, the back was very playful and easy to control. I was able to slide that around more than the GR86 despite the RWD because this car grips a bit too well even on fairly skinny HPAS tires to find many opportunities to exploit it. I’m not a fan of AWD. I don’t like the feel of it, weight, or the increased fuel use. I had a FWD Legacy and drove multiple AWD ones, including turbos, and the FWD was almost as quick as the turbos, but with a more eager attitude so that it felt as quick and it came without the fuel penalty of AWD (or a turbo). The AWD N/As felt blunted and I could still punch out of snowbanks with FWD when necessary. For me, if a car has so much power that it “needs” AWD for traction, then I don’t want it as it’s too much to use in the real world. I like to be able to have a bit of fun without having to be a sociopath.
I think it was cool that they developed an automatic for this car. Not everyone wants to daily a stick and having an auto option allows people who wouldn’t otherwise be able to experience the car a chance. When I bought my GTI I couldn’t even drive stick, but it served as a gateway to enthusiastland and I learned soon after. I also wound up driving actual sports cars, reading up on cars more, etc.
I see the same possibilities here. That being said, if you want an automatic hot hatch experience the Golf R pretty much costs the same as this and the DSG is a way better transmission in pretty much every single way…not to mention once a GRC is equipped to 50k it just doesn’t make sense to me anymore.
IMHO now that the differentials are standard kit this is a car you buy in the basest spec possible…and while I’m far from a manual diehard I think even I would check that box with a GRC. If you want an automatic fun car for the same price there are better options with better transmissions.
Oh and good to see you again Parker! I love the one lap reviews. They give me everything I need and nothing I don’t…and as an occasional track day enjoyer it’s valuable information for me.
I am now driving my second Golf R, a 2024 DSG, as my daily driver, first was a 2018 DSG. I did drive the GR Corolla, the CTR, and the Integra Type S when I was looking at the ’24 R. I found the GRC cramped for space inside, noisy, uncomfortable, felt strained when pushing the engine, and simply not to my liking. The CTR was also noisy but less so than the GRC, the interior layout was very nice and seats were very supportive and comfortable. The Integra was pretty much the same as the CTR but a bit quieter, more comfortable, and has an awesome stereo. The Golf R is very quiet comparatively, comfortable, handles about as well as the others and offers creature comforts the others do not such as ventilated front seats and heated outer rear seats. The Harman Kardon stereo in the Golf R pales in comparison to the Integra.
I primarily drive long distance, and the R has proven to be comfortable, relatively inexpensive to run, handles well, can carry a lot of cargo with the rear seat folded, and has plenty of power when I want it. My major gripe is the use of haptic touch controls on the steering wheel and below the center screen. It is much too easy to accidentally change a setting by simple movement of a hand. Also, VW isn’t the best with electronics which have been somewhat prone to doing some strange stuff.
All of these cars are priced near $50K, which is expensive for what you get, and that figure is just going to get higher. If I was looking today and could not afford the price of entry for these cars, I’m not certain what I would wind up purchasing.