Online car auctions are a thrill, but relying on bids to get a vehicle to fall within a desirable price range is a bit of a gamble if you’re buying and more than a bit of a gamble if you’re selling. Typically, for those averse to risk, there’s the “reserve” route, but this Toyota Pickup seller whose vehicle went up for auction “no reserve” now seems to have regrets.
Firstly, what is a reserve? Think of it as the seller’s bottom dollar. If a car up for auction has a reserve of $20,000 and bidding only reaches $18,000, the car isn’t sold. The top bidder doesn’t take the car home, and the seller doesn’t leave with cash, but also doesn’t leave short on the cash they expected.
It makes a lot of sense to set a reserve when auctioning a car, but there are two caveats. Firstly, some internet auction sites don’t accept reserves on certain cars. It may be due to condition, due to it being a niche vehicle with wildly varying values, or due to being worth a fairly low dollar amount. Secondly, reserves need to be extremely realistic, meaning bidding must be expected to meet or exceed the reserve.
That brings us to this 1982 Toyota Pickup, which recently went up for auction on Bring a Trailer. It’s modified in a rather period-correct way with suitable aftermarket wheels, 31-inch all-terrain tires, a brush guard, and a 2.4-liter stroker engine; it presents as a nice driver.
A recent repaint after rust repairs has resulted in a great-looking body, but there’s some light patination on the trim and corner lights, a bit of wear on the interior, a void in the dashboard due to the absence of a factory radio, a broken window knob, and uninstalled air conditioning components.
Oh yeah, and the odometer of this Toyota Pickup shows 207,000 miles, but total mileage is unknown. Effectively, it looks like a 90-percent done project that needs a bit of finishing to send it over the top, and it’s in the sort of shape you’d expect to see in an owner’s group.
Now, values on these things vary wildly from four figures to as much as $50,000 depending on options and condition, so with the modifications made and existing odds-and-ends requiring tidying up, you could say a no reserve auction made sense.
In fact, the vast majority of Toyota Pickup examples from this era on Bring A Trailer were listed without a reserve, so there’s definitely precedent. Unfortunately, it seems that the owner didn’t quite know what they were getting into. When the auction closed with a high bid of $15,000, the seller took to the comment section, making their feelings known to the peanut gallery:
Not gonna lie that kinda hurts.
I paid $17k for it… put $12k into it….
When asked by another commenter about why the auction didn’t have a reserve, the seller responded with:
because BaT said they wouldn’t. I wanted to do a $17k reserve and BaT said no. So for this auction BaT would have paid me that extra $2k. Long story short, I will never be using nor advising use of BaT again. Big dang.
Ah, okay, a few things to note here. Firstly, we have no official confirmation for this claim that Bring A Trailer didn’t offer a reserve, but we’ve reached out to ask. Regardless of whether a reserve is offered or not, it’s still the seller’s choice to auction off a vehicle as opposed to listing it privately on a platform like Facebook Marketplace. Secondly, there seems to be a bit of a misunderstanding on what happens on Bring A Trailer if a vehicle listed with a reserve doesn’t meet it. Here’s what it says on Bring A Trailer’s frequently asked questions page:
For auctions that do not meet reserve, you and the high bidder will be given the opportunity to exchange offers above the highest bid and below the reserve amount. For more information, see the Reserve Not Met FAQ sections below.
Assuming Bring A Trailer accepted a $17,000 reserve on this Toyota Pickup, it wouldn’t eat the $2,000 difference, it would be up to the seller and the highest bidder to negotiate on the difference between the highest bid and the reserve. If negotiations don’t end up working out, the seller just keeps the car.
Beyond this misconception on how reserves work, there’s some more we need to unpack here. We’ve reached out to Bring A Trailer for comment and will report back as soon as we hear more, but in the meantime, it’s worth reiterating that values on these third-generation Toyota pickup trucks can vary wildly. For instance, here’s the high end of the spectrum, a seriously nice 1982 SR5 4×4 model with period correct mods that sold for $44,444 on Bring A Trailer last month. From the gleaming chrome to the pristine interior, it looks money, so it’s no surprise it brought in a serious sum.
And here’s something on the lower end, a slightly patinated 1983 SR5 4×4 model that sold on Bring A Trailer last year for $9,500. With an odometer showing 88,000 miles, it looks like a pretty solid driver example. Sure, the dashboard is cracked and the paint is flaking in places, but this thing has dealer service receipts dated as recent as 2014, a sign that someone took pretty good care of it.
Taking a look at the truck at the center of this debacle, it seems maybe a bit closer to the latter example than the former. While it does have some nice modifications, it’s also someone else’s project, it needs a bit of tidying, there’s some slight corrosion on some underbody surfaces like the floor of the bed, and the mileage situation seems like it’ll really affect resale value.
Given the current market uncertainty, $15,000 seems to me like a fair price, and it could be argued that’s this truck’s value because that’s what someone was actually willing to pay for it, but at the same time, I totally feel for the seller. Anytime you put lots of time and money into a vehicle, you want to be able to get some of that back when you sell — so naturally, it’s disappointing when that doesn’t happen. I’ve been there.
So, if you’ve been thinking about submitting your car for online auction, make sure you know what you’re getting yourself into. There’s a chance it might pull more money online than locally, but there’s also a chance your expectations might not be met.
Top graphic credit: Bring A Trailer
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A thought: Places like Cars and Bids or BaT while they have “enthusiast” connotations they are just like every other CAR DEALER.
If you think these rules are complex, you should check out eBay dutch auctions.
I don’t think eBay even understands them.
Their explanation was contradictory and never made sense to me.
What matters though, is if you win the auction, and buy everything, you LOSE.
Effectively you are bidding against yourself.
You pay more than your bid for reasons I can’t rxplain.
eBay offered to redo the auction or let us negotiate. I offered the full amount of my bid, which he refused.
So I bid on all but one item, which you must do to avoid the issue.
Got them for much less than my offer.
Still have no clue how a dutch auction should work.
Some people never read the terms and conditions. The last three letters of his plate check out: DUH.
If he was that upset, he could have not followed through with the sale and eaten the listing fee. His account just would have been banned. It’s a poo poo thing to do, but it happens all the time on these auction sites. It drives me nuts when people put things up for auction and then complain about it not bringing enough money.
He doesn’t have to complete the sale if he is not satisfied with the price, there is no obligations to with bat and c&b. It sucks for the winner when it happens, but when the price difference is too big, I can only understand.
What do you mean he “…doesn’t have to complete the sale if he’s not satisfied with the price?” That is THE POINT of this entire article, and it’s WHY it’s so risky to do a “No Reserve” auction.
IF the seller had set a “reserve” and IF the reserve had not been met, THEN you would be correct, and he could keep his vehicle. But that is not the “fact set” here.
I’m an attorney, and when you put your vehicle up for a “No Reserve” auction, generally, the auction house has the title and you ARE committed to selling to the highest bidder–PERIOD. No other alternative is legally possible.
So please, do elaborate–I’m fascinated.
Peter – I find that when people feel the need to state “I am an attorney” or “as an engineer”, what follows is never impressive.
Having sold on BaT three times with no reserve, I can confirm that BaT doesn’t hold the title
I don’t care whether the following impresses you or not (but I did say “generally, the auction house has the title…”), because I did not KNOW. So thank you for informing me that B-a-T does not hold the title.
Nevertheless (i.e., regardless of whether or not B-a-T is holding the title), IF the laws in the jurisdiction governing the transaction of the Toyota under discussion are similar to the laws in the state in which I am licensed, then the buyer can absolutely sue to enforce the contract.
It seems you are confusing B-a-T’s business policies with the actual laws in the state with the controlling jurisdiction–and those can be two very different things. IOW, a contract can be legally enforceable even if B-a-T is not holding the title, and therefore not in a position to force the sale.
I’ve read enough of the accounts in this thread to glean that B-a-T apparently does not force sales under these circumstances. But that does not mean that the BUYER has no remedy at law because, in my experience, he does. Whether it’s worth his time and money is an entirely different matter–IMO, it would not be worth it, but people do things for very personal reasons, so who knows?
However, I have found that when laymen are foolish enough to challenge a licensed professional, in whatever profession it may be, they generally bring more to the table than you just did.
And I will add that when a person “speaks in absolutes,” as you just did when you said “…never very impressive…,” very often an example to the contrary comes along. (And lawyers are trained to avoid “speaking in absolutes” for this reason.) In my experience, people who “speak in absolutes” are not people I would consider thoughtful or wise.
You are correct. For example:
The vast majority of people who feel the need to say “I’m an attorney” unsolicited are assholes. You, on the other hand, are an unrepentant asshole, so it would be inaccurate to state that all people that feel the need to say “I’m an attorney” are assholes
Clearly, you do not know the definition of “unrepentant.” Nothing in my pointing out the flaw in your so-called “logic” makes me “unrepentant asshole.”
(by Fourmotioneer):
Even if you fixed your (sloppy) typos, your comment is incoherent. Please adhere to the “First Rule of Holes,” i.e., “When you find yourself in a hole, STOP DIGGING.”
How many hours of billing have your comments cost you today?
I put a ticket in a no reserve auction with a high but fair, buy it now set price.
Time sensitive so I thought it would go cheap, but a fair enough price.
One person put in a dollar offer.
Next day, someone sprang for asking price!
Never expected that.
I have mostly set reserves, but I always tell anyone asking the reserve.
Makes no sense to me to hide it.
BAT is a listing service only. They don’t have anything to do with the sale. You are essentially bidding for the sellers contact information. BAT does not hold title or collect funds.
I guess I did not know this. 5% fee for handling nothing? The dotcom 2.0 bubble can’t burst soon enough.
They charge a service fee to use their platform as a marketing tool. Fair play as far as I can see.
I never said it wasn’t “fair.” I just think it’s a rip off.
Those of us that do use it as a sales platform are for the most part pretty happy with what they provide for the cost. You must not be the target audience.
I used to have an ’85 that spent its entire life from birth in California and Arizona to 2007 when i got a hold of it and brought it to the great plains so it was utterly rust free. it was also completely sandblasted from being kept outside in the arizona desert for the majority of its life so i got it painted. It went to the great junkyard in the sky at 270k miles in 2012 after i couldn’t sort some electrical gremlins and needed reliable transportation to my big boy job. Are you telling me that if I had just kept it for an extra 10 years i could have sold it for almost 15k? I spent 2k on it and felt like i got fleeced. Mine even had an aftermarket radio and the AC worked, so according to this guy’s logic, it’d be worth at least 20k. I know what i (used to) got.
$17K into an old ass garage anchor seems imprudent.
I have an old rental car that had $80,000 put into it by the last owner.
You’ve got me guessing what this is now! Mustang GT350H?
Aero body Tbird with engine and transmission problems on a low spec hertz version.
Car was so new then, the builder is still mad about what he had to pay to get the body.
First custom aero body by Fat Jack Robinson, or anyone else.
Fully dressed turbo interior and bodywork, some parts were from mixed years, so it was a version that never left the factory.
Originally a turbo V8, it has a natural aspirated stroker now.
Rod ended suspension, track car.
Custom monochrome blue is said to be color snap on used on blue boxes.
Inspired by this car, Jack later built a radical tube frame version with custom steel bodywork that cost $250,000!
BAT is good. That wasn’t the venue for that vehicle there. That’s all. I bought a great ’98 T/A convertible there just before last July 4th no reserve thinking it may slip through with people looking to the weekend and it being lower vehicle. It worked out well for me. The gentleman I bought it from took a beating. Is what it is.
I will never use an auction house that charges the buyer instead of the seller.
They all do. Big houses even charges both.
I dunno, 15k seems pretty good for an old truck with unknown, but high, mileage, visible corrosion on the underbelly and a “repaint after rust repair.” Not to mention it’s someone else’s unfinished project. I wouldn’t touch this thing with a ten foot pole, regardless of price.
For sure. Every single dollar you spend modding a vehicle you have to expect is not going to come back to you. In a ton of cases, it lowers the value. Fixing a vehicle is a different story. You buy a David Tracy special, drop some cash to get it running again, you should be able to make some (small) amount of dough. Taking a running vehicle that you spent a princely sum on to begin with and doing…. stuff? to it is not going to make it worth more.
Depends on time sensitivity very often.
I have missed some stuff I’m looking at, and may take a loss to get one with an Allison trans added.
Desperately needed an enclosed trailer, so I sold new stuff at a loss to get it.
Worked for the time pressure I had.
Trailer is so good, I’m still okay with that loss.
Did the dude see how the market is going right now. People are not going to spending tons of money on classic vehicles now. People are actually giving up their financed dailies now. He lucky he didn’t get 10K for that ride. Someone is going to finish it and wait about 5 years enjoy it and then flip it for more than they bought in the auction.
He paid 17k for it, then dumped 12k into it, for a truck that IMHO is worth about 15k. Maybe.
The market says it’s worth EXACTLY $15k, which is considerably more than I think it’s worth.
I came up with that same $15k number before getting to that in the story.
Yeah, I was expecting to see that it had gone for $2500 or something. Once I found the actual amount…yup, sounds about right, maybe a little high. Over 200k miles, questionable wiring seen in the engine compartment, shitty aftermarket air filter, interior ok but not great. BaT ain’t stupid.
Where did the 12K go? It’s missing AC parts, has no radio… and that is not a 12 thousand dollar paint job.
Marty McFly’s pickup must be worth a friggin’ fortune by now.
The old Toyota pickups got driven hundreds of thousand of miles and either got completely worn out and junked or repaired and repainted.
my guess is they spent $12k the old fashioned way: bought catalog parts and paid somebody else to do ALL of the work…
Buy high, sell low. The capital depreciation fund has been operating that way for years.
I don’t know why ANYONE would ever buy a car sight unseen, unless it’s atleast half off the normal price. Why take a chance on getting screwed? Just do the work and be patient.
I bought my NC Miata off CarsAndBids last year. I actually probably paid a little bit more than I should have but, it was one owner since new and had an extensive amount of pictures as well as a Lemon Busters inspection report that was extremely thorough. There was still a small risk but, in the end, the car was exactly as described and I’ve been thrilled with it since.
Solid choice. My son has one and I just bought one with a 2.5 swap and a turbo. Guess which one has issues. The motor swapped one. They are an absolute blast to own and do autocross with.
I agree.
At the least, you can get a local to inspect it before you make the trip.
$15,000 is more than fair. $10,000 more than I’d pay for this antique.
Around $9588 brand new in 82.
If you go into an auction expecting big money, you will always be disappointed. I see auctions as a way of getting rid of crap for whatever you can get, like grandma’s clutter after she dies. Taking stuff to the dump is an option, but if you get a few bucks out of her junk, you are happy. I’ve done some horse trading(literal) in my life, and you never took high dollar horses to the livestock sell. Only the lame and dumb.
Quite literally not how cars work because they are not in fact horses, but okay.
My point was, auctions are a place to see how much money you can get for something. If you want to get what you want out of something, sell at a fixed price. Most auctions are a buyers advantage, not a sellers.
Quite literally not how auctions work. Ever heard of Sotheby’s? Christie’s? Yeah, try going in there and getting a Van Gogh for “a few bucks.” Guess the one that sold for $75 million was just junk diverted from the dump.
You’re thinking of garage sales, not auctions. If anything people tend to get more than the thing’s worth an an auction because when you introduce competitive bidding people shift focus from buying a thing at a fair price to beating the other asshole that’s bidding against them.
He said “livestock sell.” You can’t expect much.
Underrated comment (and one that will go right over the head of the person it’s about). Well played!
Estate auctions and vehicle auctions are not at all the same.
Exactly, unless selling at some variation of Sotheby’s or a LeMans GT40 you’re going to get people who expect to pay less than retail and will bid accordingly. Double that when it’s some niche vehicle in need of TLC that appeals to a subset of car enthusiasts on the internet.
I went to an auction on a ranch a few decades ago, before Ebay and Craigslist came around. Man, the junk that they were selling… a semi cab that turned out to need a motor rebuild, a tractor with a welded up wheel with fresh yellow paint all over everything… and the crowds followed the auctioneer around as if it were the second coming.
Can’t speak to BaT, but when I submitted a car to Cars and Bids they would only list it without a reserve.
BaT and C&B both push very hard for no reserve because it guarantees a sale. They will always tout how ‘no reserve’ auctions tend to bring higher bids in the end. Not a sure thing at all, especially lately.
BAT not allowing the car with a reserve sounds plausible.
They’re just focused on selling high-end collector’s trailer queens these days
I imagine they only let cars like these through only if they’re guaranteed a commission via a no reserve sale
“…absence of a factory radio, a broken window knob, and uninstalled air conditioning components…and the odometer of this Toyota Pickup shows 207,000 miles, but total mileage is unknown.”
I feel like I’m living in the bizarro world with this market. This is a hooptee of the highest order.
Right? This should be a $500 truck.
It is refreshing to see someone get burned after paying the Toyota tax. The insanity won’t let up until these insane prices start to backfire on people.
He’s stealing my stock market strategy of buy high sell low, that ain’t fair!
Pretty much how auctions have always gone, sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, on both the buying and selling side…but if your gonna play you have to understand that.
Think they call it caveat emptor. I seen that on The Brady bunch. Maybe it should work for sellers too ????
He didn’t know what he had.
He has a piece of shit that I wouldn’t have paid 15K for and if he bought it for $15 and put 12 into it. He’s the dumbass
Only highballers.
Hey if I call in sick and only work 32 hours I don’t get my full check. If you don’t finish the project you don’t get what it will be worth just what it is worth incomplete. I think the cheaper example mentioned here was a better truck
I have so many thoughts here:
1) The seller didn’t have to list this on BAT. It’s their right to set the terms of a listing and refusing a reserve (or probably in this case, an unreasonable one) is completely reasonable. He is welcome to take his business elsewhere. I hear Facebook Marketplace is lovely, and it’s probably where this heap belongs.
2) Seller is an idiot for thinking you get a return on “invested” money into a car in all but the rarest circumstances. Also, what the hell did he even spend $12K on? He clearly got ripped off because this thing is in below average condition.
3) I’d be happy to see more of this. It’s stupid that mediocre 40-year-old trucks with high miles are selling for $20,000+. I’m shocked anyone (other than maybe a sucker like the seller) would even pay $15,000 for this decades old truck with 200,000+ miles on it. There are just… SO many better ways to spend $15K. Even the “mint” one for $44K. I mean… it’s mint but it’s an old work truck without any creature comforts. It’s not particularly beautiful. It doesn’t have crazy supercar levels of performance. You can buy a hell of a nice new or lightly used truck for that kind of money. I just don’t get it.
True but all the trucks shown here are more reliable and cheaper to maintain than any supercar. I never got the pay a half million pounds for a car you can’t drive, at least to it’s limits and cost $10k or more for a brake job. And breaks down a lot
I recommend the ‘ last year’s race car ‘ strategy.
The market for these is millennials who liked riding in their parents truck when they were kids, and now having disposable income. The problem is, while this business model works on the Boomers,we millennials don’t have enough money to buy the things we need let alone want. When I see a classic car or truck that some boomer has obviously spent a ton of money and time on, and it has a $50,000+ for sale sign, I think, in less than 10 years they won’t be able to give these cars away. Kids don’t care about cars anymore. Millennials do, but we have way bigger problems on our hands.
Indeed. And even if you have the money and buy the truck, you are left with an old truck with the comfort from an old workhorse
Thank you for some sanity here
I like that there is choice. My neighbor is into old Toyota trucks. He might buy one for $5,000 and a decade later, it is still worth $5,000. Compare that to the $45,000 for a “hell of a nice lightly used truck” that I bought 4 years ago; today that truck is worth maybe $25,000. I don’t judge the people that opt for the newer vehicle, but at the same time I completely understand paying big money for older work horses. The market may disappear in 10 years, but that’s not a bet that I am making.
Many of the older trucks are less complex, so inherently easier to maintain.
Often worth more, as considered more desirable.
In my case, I was going for strictly performance, but same thing in my case.
Tier Zero smog controls.
My box truck has low mileage for its age, and is a Tier One epa version, some complications, but some advantages like a switchable economy mode.
Probably worth more than triple what I paid for it at the time.
How is this noteworthy? Dude didn’t follow instructions, gets disappointed.
Slow news day since Ford hasn’t had a recall.
Yet.
I just received a recall today for my 2015 F250. Backup camera intermittently working I’ve fought to fix for the last 8 years. Ford doesn’t have a fix, either, but it’s been recalled
I found the only time it doesn’t work is when I’m backing to to a trailer, and no one is around to help me line it up.
For me it’s interesting. Similar to local news in local newspaper.