My dear readers, attend to my words and incline thine ear unto my sayings: Car prices aren’t going to stay this low forever. If you’re in the market for a nice new or used car, now may be the time to act. Any time after that may be too late, barring some sort of huge capitulation on the part of this administration or massive economic downturn (or both).
The Morning Dump is in the dumps today, starting with the unsurprising news that used car values continue to rise as panic-buying runs into already constrained inventory. For nice cars, at least, I actually think there’s some opportunity in the future in the crapbox used car space.
New cars? Employee pricing continues, but Ford is upping the price of everything built in Mexico, including our dear Ford Maverick. If you want a Maverick, you better get on it. Toyota? They’re also in the suck, so you can expect those prices to go skyward as well.
One person who doesn’t have to deal with this is Jim Rowan, Volvo CEO… because he was fired. Now there’s a bit more news on how/why that happened.
Used Car Prices Up 4.9% Year-Over-Year In April
Let me start this morning by quoting the great financial voice of our time, Joe Weisenthal, as he provides on Bloomberg the clearest articulation yet of the current moment:
I’ve always thought that the only interesting term is the medium term.
In the short term, the sun is going to rise tomorrow. In the long term, the sun will eventually die, ending life on earth as we know it. It’s in between that’s interesting. What the market does tomorrow is almost certainly irrelevant, and in the long term it will probably go up. What’s interesting is what happens in the medium term. In economic life, tomorrow will probably look like today. The long term is largely unknowable. What’s interesting to talk about is how the medium term looks.
What’s rare about right now is how uncertain the short term is. Everyone is asking everyone else for glints of insight into what’s actually happening to the US economy, and how the tariff strategy will unfold, and how companies are responding to it. And mostly everyone else is just guessing, or they themselves are asking someone else the same question, and they don’t have anything particularly new to say.
If he doesn’t know, then I sure as hell don’t either.
So let’s start with one narrow measure and one that’s, historically, perhaps a little easier to follow. The Manheim Used Vehicle Value Index, or MUVVI — looking at this chart, you can see the immediate low-traffic downturn caused by the pandemic, and then the even wilder upswing caused by pandemic-related new car shortages. You can see prices slowly improve, bottom out, and improve again. Now that line is going up.
What? Why?
“The ‘spring bounce’ normally ends the second week of April, but this year, wholesale appreciation trends continued for the entire month and were much stronger than we typically observe,” said Jeremy Robb, senior director of Economic and Industry Insights at Cox Automotive. “We expected to see strong price appreciation in response to the tariffs, and that’s exactly what came. Weekly trends showed higher values as we moved through the month, but those increases tapered off each successive week. Used retail sales remain stronger than normal, and wholesale days’ supply is a bit tighter, so we will likely see less depreciation than normal over Q2. As we move into the second half of the year, though, the auto market may slow as strong demand likely pulled some transactions forward in March and April as buyers tried to get ahead of expected higher prices due to tariffs.”
On an adjusted level, the index is up 4.9% year-over-year and 2.7% from March.
New cars aren’t even any more expensive yet because of tariffs; this is just the Lease Renewal Super Cliff in action. There are simply fewer good used cars because, 3-4 years ago, the pandemic took millions of potential used cars out of the market. People are rushing to buy anything now.
What does the future hold? I have no idea. If a recession suppresses buying, then perhaps a combination of lower interest rates and lower buying will ease things a bit. It’s not worth experiencing another global financial crisis, especially a self-inflicted one, to lower used car prices.
The slightly positive flipside of this is that enthusiast cars are suddenly a much better deal as new car inventory improves and economic uncertainty drives values back down a little bit.
Ford’s Mexican-Built Cars Are Going To Get Up To $2,000 More Expensive
The best time to buy a Ford Maverick is four years ago. The second best time to a Ford Maverick is right freakin’ now.
While employee pricing still exists, any Ford Maverick built before May 2nd is going to be the same price it was always supposed to be. Built after May 2nd? It’s inevitably going to be the cheap cars that are the hardest hit proportionally, and Ford is reportedly going to be raising prices up to $2,000 over the current MSRP on the Mexican-built cars. Specifically, the Mach-E, Bronco Sport, and beloved Maverick are all likely to see some increases.
Why is this happening? Here’s a Ford rep telling the Detroit Free Press that it isn’t all about tariffs with a straight face:
A Ford spokesperson said the price hikes will affect vehicles built after May 2, which would arrive at dealer lots in late June. The spokesperson said the price hikes reflect “usual” midyear pricing actions, “combined with some tariffs we are facing. We have not passed on the full cost of tariffs to our customers.”
In fairness to the spokesperson, changing the price of the Ford Maverick is one of the company’s favorite hobbies. That it’s so close to the rollout of the new one is suspicious, though.
The guess is that there’s enough inventory to keep Maverick prices normal until at least early June, so act fast.
Toyota Predicts Tariffs Will Lead To A 34.9% Drop In Net Income In FY2026
The leadership of Toyota, seen here planning to dissolve the Imperial Senate, has bad news for investors. And bad news for investors almost always rolls down to customers.
Let’s start with the numbers from Toyota, a company that’s on the Japanese fiscal year. The numbers are really bad. Sales revenues are expected to increase by 1.0% as sales increase this year, yet overall net income is predicted to drop by 34.9% compared to the just-ended Fiscal Year 2025. Why?
This forecast assumes average exchange rates through the fiscal year of 145 yen per US$1 and 160 yen per 1 euro. The impact of U.S. tariffs on operating income is factored in at 180.0 billion yen as a negative impact of April and May, tentatively.
Even though Toyota makes a ton of its cars here in the United States, even it cannot escape the risk of tariffs. That 180 billion yen number is about $1.24 billion in U.S. dollars, which is relatively small compared to the impact Ford and GM are expecting. Presumably, the company is going to have to raise prices eventually to cover some of this shortfall.
The first question at the press conference this morning was about tariffs, of course, and CEO Koji Sato responded:
“Our government-to-government negotiations are ongoing at this moment… at this moment, it’s very difficult to forecast the future. But at the moment there [are] already tariffs that are being imposed, and that part has been reflected in our forecast for this fiscal year. We don’t want to waver from our basic principles, and we will stay the course, so depending on whether you are looking at short-term or medium term it’ll change.”
Ok, so he doesn’t know either, other than to say that over the long term that products will have to be produced and delivered locally.
Alleged Reasons Why Jim Rowan Is No Longer At Volvo
Former Dyson boss Jim Rowan was a curious choice for the Geely-owned automaker, and while you might have assumed that his sudden departure from the company had a lot to do with his openness to killing wagons, this report from Manger Magazin suggests there’s a little more to it than that:
According to manager magazin, the real cause lies deeper: “Rowan was simply unbearable, completely resistant to advice,” commented one top executive on the Volvo CEO’s departure – characteristics that were also attributed to Samuelsson in his final phase at Volvo. But he always maintained a good relationship with Li Shufu.
Geely’s new strategy also apparently proved to be Rowan’s downfall. Li Shufu wants to bring his now eleven brands closer together and leverage potential synergies. Instead of developing technology twice as a loose collection of brands, the manufacturers in the Shufu empire are to work more closely together – similar to the Volkswagen Group, where numerous models from Škoda, VW, and Audi are based on identical architectures.
However, Rowan repeatedly blocked the synergy efforts, according to the company. “Rowan wanted to keep Volvo operating independently as much as possible,” says a manager, who also opposed Li Shufu for a long time in discussions about additional plug-in hybrids for Volvos in China. Ultimately, the Geely owner pulled the plug on the former vacuum cleaner manager.
Rowan doesn’t seem to have provided a comment to MM. We’ve tried reaching out via Linkedin.
So goes Li Shufu, so goes Volvo.
What I’m Listening To While Writing TMD
If you love Gorillaz, but have never listened to Deltron 3030, you’re missing out. Here’s Del, Dan, and Kid Koala doing a full performance of the first Deltron 3030 album live on KEXP.
The Big Question
What’s the best used car deal right now?
Top photo: Ford
Thanks again Matt! 😀
I’m a smart guy with a vast multitude of personality flaws (none of which keep me from working well with others) and I love cars (especially Swedish ones) so I think Volvo should hire me to run the company. 😉 I’ve been responsible for budgets in the million+ range (yes, I know that’s nothing compared to automotive development numbers, but at least it’s more than drove an ice cream truck money) and I’ll work for half of whatever they were paying Rowan, provided that I can mostly work from home (in Southern California) and not have to fly to Gothenburg or China more than two or three times a year.
Adding $2K to the price of the Maverick makes the base hybrid approach $30K before destination, tax, title, and registration. Inexplicably, they’re moving it upmarket so as to make the pre-tax credit $27,500. MSRP for a Slate without a radio or power windows seem more attractive? I think someone should check to see whether somebody high up at Ford is perhaps a Slate backer under a proxy ID. 😉
Mr. Li Shufu, if you’re reading this and perhaps your curiosity is piqued, feel free to get in touch with me via David here at Autopian.
😀
Heck – I’ll do that job for that number and fly to Sweden and China as often as they’ll let me! Relocate me to Gothenburg – I’ve got the movers on speed-dial!
As it turns out, FORD is it on my list of approved vendors…. So go ahead, charge whatever you want. It’s only 50% more than originally advertised so make it 100%. I don’t care.
Sadly, this is so true: the Maverick was originally teased as being available at ‘under $20K’ when it was about to be introduced just four years ago. It turned out to be $21,600. in base MSRP IIRC, which is admirably close. Now that the same vehicle costs almost $30K just a few years later (and all the buyer gets for their extra $10grand is two inches of additional screen space and some new paint colors to chose from) it’s just not nearly as interesting/appealing as it once was.
Not nearly as bad as a certain other “truck“ that was originally announced at “$40K“ in 2019.
“the Geely owner pulled the plug on the former vacuum cleaner manager” – I wonder if this was an intentional pun or not. Should have followed it up with something along the lines of “corporate was tired of him sucking (the air out of the room)”.
Also, “Rowan was simply unbearable, completely resistant to advice” I wonder what percentage of CEO’s fall in this category?
Probably as a percentage not that many, it’s just that the ones that do make headlines.
Yep, probably just like everything else in life where 98% of people can be just normal and decent, but those 2% that are unbearable are quite noticeable.
“I wonder what percentage of CEO’s fall in this category?”
I can think of three offhand…
Whooo! Based on that lede graphic, is this column going to change its name to The Morning Dumpster Fire for the near future?
I don’t know what the best used car deal is right now, but whatever it is, you better grab it fast if you need one.
I’m a dork that tracks the KBB value of our cars. From this time last year the KBB estimate for my car is up $3K and my wife’s is up $1100. Wacky times…
I know,it’s crazy. For s**** and giggles I looked up values on my 500 Abarth.
Around 2017 it was worth $3500.
Then the pandemic hit and its value went up to $6500.
When the pandemic was over it stabilized around $6000.
Then inflation and now tariffs hit.
Its current value is around $9700 now.
My Fiat will be 13 years old in May.
Makes me glad I didn’t downgrade the insurance on it from C&C(Comprehensive & Collision) to basic liability.
Wow, my 03 Civic LX’s value has doubled since I last checked it. Glad I laughed in the dealer’s face when they offered me $500 in trade for it last year when I bought my 13 Si…
Oh and the Si is worth almost exactly what I paid for it last October…..
The Big Question
Chevy Bolt. You can find 2017s with a new battery with a 1 year warranty (8 on the battery) for $12-14k easily. If you are one of the poors (like me), you can take 30% off (up to $4k), which brings it down to $10k or less, for a 8 year old car with around 40k miles or so and normally even a new set of tires.
Assuming you can charge it at home, it should be cheap to operate even.
Nissan Leafs are also great deals, but not as common. Nissan Ariyas are excellent deals as well, if you want something a bit bigger with a faster charger system.
With Tesla prices tanking, this is driving down the pricing of lesser rated EVs like the Chevy’s and Nissans. If you don’t road trip that often (and most people don’t) a Leaf or Bolt is a great car for the price.
I am interested at $10k or less but it needs to be the premier edition to get the more comfortable seat.
I didnt buy a bolt because of the seats. i REALLY wanted to like the bolt, it just wasnt comfortable. I’m not even a big person, it’s just that it felt as comfortable as an airline seat, with plastic trim that isnt covered by the seat bolsters, so when you step out of it, your thigh levers off of the hard trim, rather than a squishy bolster.
I’ve heard that. I’ve also heard the 21 and later are better. I also know that Tirerack is offering “-1” wheel and tire combos to add more sidewall.
I’ve heard it is the 21 that has the better seat and a softer suspension.
I was somewhat interested in a Bolt, but when I saw that Tirerack is offering “-1″ tires (running 1” SMALLER wheels than stock), I don’t think my back can take that.
I’d second that, I figure I roughly save 10 cents/mile in operating costs in the Bolt vs. the car it replaced, maybe more with almost zero maintenance. At that price, it could pay for itself potentially before needing any maintenance other than tires and stuff like washer fluid.
It is even fine for almost all of our road trips, such as 1000 miles in a week with no days over 300 miles.
I did exactly this in Feb 2024. 2019 with 46k miles, $14700 – 4000= $10,700
Just be careful when shopping – many dealers list them with the $4k already included, and while some do a good job of noting that clearly in the ad, many don’t. It was the fall when I was looking, but more and more of them were including the tax credit in the ad (which makes sense, from an advertising standpoint, if all your competitors are)
I did just this in September. $12k out the door. 2018 with a brand new battery. It’s been fantastic.
It has only been a few days, why are cars not all made here in the US in new factories with US made machines from US sourced raw materials??? Must be Biden’s fault or DEI or woke or BLM or Antifa’s fault.
Good grief, you wet paper bag. lol
It is entirely because someone forgot to bring in the millions, the “armies”, of Chinese immigrants to work the factory jobs… and build the factories…
The tone of these articles always confuses me a bit.
Shouldn’t we, as people who generally own more cars than most, celebrate this news?
Prices rising are not automatically bad, if you own the asset in question.
Shouldn’t we, as people who generally
ownbuy more cars than most,celebratedetest this news?Ah, there’s the rub.
I suppose that’s fair, if you’re only adding, never selling, and never buying new.
Hmmm, that probably does describe a lot of people here.
The editorial staff, at least.
I mean, until the landlord forces them to sell, at least.
FIFY. 🙂
Ah, fair point. You are technically correct, which is the best kind of correct.
I like to buy older, interesting basket cases at the bottom of their value curve so it is only up from there. The problem is, I never sell any.
True, but rising prices do not help unless you intend to sell the asset without replacing it. I bought a house pre-pandemic that went up 30% in value; that was great until I moved and bought a different house that also went up 30% in value. The same goes for cars.
Right, but in that example, the price rise is basically a wash unless you’re making a major upgrade.
But vehicles are typically a depreciating asset, and most people replace an older vehicle for a newer one. So it doesn’t come out as a wash as the newer one you buy is likely even more expensive than the price increase on the one you sold.
Meaning, you may have sold your old car for an extra $2k, but the one you bought to replace it cost an extra $5k. So your still out $3k.
True, but isn’t that a far bigger problem with cars? Most car buyers are buying a new vehicle specifically to upgrade. I regularly buy and sell vehicles, but I rarely make a lateral move.
Except for things like real estate transaction fees that also go up.
We’re in the strange position that we would like to move, have seven figures in equity, but feel like we are trapped where we are since we’re in a high price area. If house prices were cut in half, we would have way more flexibility and could buy something new and sell our current place after the fact, but instead if we do find a new house to upgrade to, we will have to jump through all sorts of logistical hoops of contract contingencies and such that might sink the entire thing.
I would be quite happy if the housing market where we lived absolutely tanked so we could find a better spot more easily, even if it meant selling our current place at hundreds of thousands of dollars less than we bought it for.
I’m sure the same goes for cars, where for most people, lower prices give more flexibility and options. Even if things are “a wash” at the end when the dust settles regardless of the exact price level, lower overall prices can make a huge difference in the process to get there.
I wish it could be a wash in my area. We bought our house right before everything went to crap. We started looking last year and everything in our area that is $100k more was in significantly worse shape than the house we live in currently. Like rental and not worried about getting your security deposit back level. My house didn’t appreciate that much to cover a $200k (to get into something not needing a total refurb) difference
The pandemic did weird stuff to my area’s real estate market. Existing stuff in the suburbs went nuts and so did desirable areas in the nearby city. Values around me in the burbs about doubled for existing homes. They haven’t come back down to Earth yet. The paper wealth is nice except for the increased tax bill.
It really screwed things up here too. There used to be the refurb priced homes, then a step up but still affordable like the house we got and then the bonkers stuff. After the pandemic, refurb quality places basically jumped to mid-tier pricing or above and everything else went bonkers and never settled back down.
So here I stay until 5 acres in the mountains becomes attainable
I mean, yes, if you’re taking a self-centered view and not considering how this could negatively affect other people, which it does.
Almost everyone owns a car though?
Yeah, but there’s a non-trivial percentage of the population that probably needs to upgrade to something else, which is going to get harder, and that’s not taking into account how rising new car prices will negatively affect car makers, and therefore and to a greater extent, the blue collar workers of said companies.
That’s because TMD (not MH specifically) always has the tone of “speaking out of both sides of the mouth”.
EVs/hybrids/V12s are both God’s gift to the world and the Devil’s incarnate.
TMD is basically a Choose Your Own Adventure book.
I am in the boat of those whose life has never been bettered by the rising cost of cars. I don’t know many, even those around me who buy new, who prefer that direction for cars. Even when increases limit their depreciation, that depreciation still typically exceeds the growth they have to pay for in their next car, thus causing car ownership to cost them more than it would have if car values had stayed closer to static. So yes, I do consider constant upward pressure on car values to be a negative. Yeah, I could sell my 240sx for 10 times what I paid for it, but then I wouldn’t have that car anymore and I couldn’t afford to replace it either.
Though it doesn’t apply to most car owner. If you live in a state where your car is taxed as property and that tax is based on it’s value,then it matters.
KEXP is great, tons of good stuff on their YouTubes. I stumbled on Frankie and Witch Fingers there a couple nights ago. Holy shit.
That is a great station with quite a few venues and studios. Maybe someday I can visit, as I am outside Boston. Delvon Lamarr Organ Trio first brought my attention, then a local acquaintance went to school there and is a big fan
Used car prices are up 4.9% year over year which includes a massive drop in the price of used Teslas so the used car you actually want is probably up more than 4.9% from last year.
Although Telsa (and some other EVs) have dropped in value a lot, there aren’t that many on the road. Simple check on cars.com for used whatever (at whatever location my VPN has fooled it into thinking I am today) is over 10,000 cars. 78 are Teslas. They could be paying you to take Teslas and it wouldn’t move the market within the rounding error of 4.9%.
I’m in the greater DC area and limiting my search for used Teslas to within 50 miles shows 811 matches. I would bet its similar in a lot of larger metro areas. Still probably a very small impact on the overall average price changes.But its not like there are 12 teslas on the road everywhere.
And 10,000+ non-EVs. That’s less than 1% of the used cars in that area.
I had no intention of buying a new car in the next few years, but the person who T-boned me at an intersection a few weeks ago had other ideas. I got a 2015 Acura ILX 2.4/6MT with 90k miles for a little under $15k, which given how things may go with car prices, doesn’t seem like the worst deal
It continues to blow my mind that in 2025, after all of the societal progress and technological advancements and everything else we’ve ever done, that we still can’t move beyond a world in which all power is consolidated in one human being, to whom we must all honor and pay tribute.
That’s just the puppet.
I know it is, but it’s wild that the government system we’ve been told since birth has been explicitly designed to prevent this kind of thing has not, in fact, prevented this kind of thing.
Yeah, my HS government teacher owes me some explanations!!!
For a century, both political parties have been deliberately concentrating power into the executive branch. The fact that we are where we are at was no accident. The feigned opposition in Congress is mere theatre, part of a bread and circuses act.
What in the heck are you on about? The Pope or something?
There’s a pope? The only color smoke I’ve seen is Blue. Oh, wait, that’s my car nevermind.
There is now.
It’s a boy!
Lol. It typically is.
Mazel tov!
The white smoke is the head gasket failing.
I was recently talking about this with some of my younger, more liberal-minded friends at work.
They look at the world in much the way your comment seems to be leaning, with the world making steady progress toward an end-goal/idea in their mind for where we, collectively, want to be moving toward. I guess it sounds like a good idea, of course the fact that none of us really agrees on the vision for the end-goal makes it… messy.
Maybe because I’m older and have seen most of this stuff before, and have been beaten down by reality too many times, I see it differently. Life is not a steady march with continuous progress being made. Life is a pendulum that swings one way for a while, then swings back the other way.
Because one of two things tends to happen; each group of people involved (based on our 2-party system) tends to take their chance to push too far on their agendas that causes everyone collectively to say, “whoa, that’s not what we meant when we elected you.” Or, they get too addicted to the power and do everything they can to protect it instead of doing what they were elected to do in the first place.
Either way, it just opens up the opportunity for the other side to swoop in and take power back. Wash. Rinse. Repeat.
It happened with Reagan, Bush1, Clinton, George W Bush (eventually), Obama and of course it has happened and is currently happening with Trump.
Be patient. It’s about to swing again.
Well said… “this too shall pass”
Little more crazy now than before, but I hope we are at the limit of the pendulum so the swing back is less left next time and we start to settle into the middle again
I have news – we’re going to need a massive swing left if we’re to have any hope of returning from as far right as we currently are to this “middle” you speak of.
The swing back is generally proportional to the push from the other side. See Obama. His push for health care was big. I would not pass judgement on it being positive or negative but which ever side you sit, you have to admit it was a big swing. Republicans won the house and senate in a big way during his mid terms.
Depending on the specifics of these tariffs and the bill being proposed for tax rates and spending cuts, I could see the swing back to democrats being pretty big. You have to remember, most people don’t pay much attention to the daily press conferences and he said/she said commentary. They will only really pay attention to what’s going on right before the election.
If things quiet down next year and the economy is relatively stable, I think the swing is moderate. It’s why the republicans now (and Democrats under Obama) are trying so hard to get as much done as quickly as possible. They know/knew that if things are stable, reasonably positive in the economy and quiet down the swing will be small. Historically there is almost always a swing of some sort at the mid-term elections, just how big of one is the question.
That might be the case in a system with some democratic process aligning with popular opinion. That isn’t the case any longer since the current rapist-in-chief has made it clear he has no intention of abiding by the courts or holding actual elections. The idea that this is more of the same is painfully naive. I have found this naivete largely fueled by laziness and a desire not to deal with reality.
Nah, it will be fine.
The elections and democratic process will continue. I’ll pass no judgement on the quality of decision-making during that process though. Especially the primaries. All things are temporary. Before long it will be the other side proclaiming that the sky is falling.
The false equivalencies need to consider that true are overwhelming. It is a belief only possible if all available evidence is ignored. But Americans have long been completely dependent on redefining problems in a way that allows them to sit back and do nothing.
I’m not sure where you are coming from with all of this but it sounds very… concerning. I very much hope you are ok.
I recommend unplugging from the news for a bit. The conversation escalated to the point I hope you’ve got someone you can talk to.
Really, it’s all going to be ok.
I understand you are unaware. Thanks for confirming the point and highlighting the truth in the old saying that ignorance is bliss.
The amount of people who openly spurned the funny looking, store-bought cake hoping to forcefeed someone else a steaming pile of shit informs me of the character of this country.
I say Trump is the first American to ever take the presidency. I voted for Harris in 2024. In the future, I will vote for him and his party to represent us truthfully on the world stage.
I really enjoyed reading this comment and the replies. Calm, thoughtful….
What’s the best used car deal right now?
The one you’re driving right now. The one that’s paid off. The one that’s “good enough for now.” The one that you were flirting with flipping for something newer and shinier.
I’ll take my chances with possible expensive repair down the road vs certain monthly note for the next x years.
Oh and don’t overlook rising insurance rates with a new car.
I recently added a car because I wanted a better car, not becausei wanted to save money. Just the cash I laid out in sales tax and title/registration fees was enough to fund a warrantied salvage yard engine replacement for the old car.
Maybe, but for people whose cars are becoming unpredictable and are likely to need a repair greater than their value, that might be an expensive risk. Few people can afford to self-insure for major repairs, but can’t afford a payment on a decent, certified used car.
If you push the old car to the point of failure, the $7k new engine won’t make sense, so you are stuck needing a new car anyway, and now you don’t have any car you can use as a down payment. Which means your payments are higher than they would have been otherwise.
It certainly feels like the best used car deal is the one I’m getting ready to sell. CTS V-Sport a 420hp rwd sedan on the Alpha platform. I’ll be lucky to get 14k for it.
Why so little? Does it have a bad history?
Seems to be market value in my area, it’s an early car that’s starting to get up there in milage, just crossed 120k miles. No real issues, but a couple of minor accidents, nothing more than fascia damage, all has been professionally repaired. Seems to just be a struggle for these, they kinda fall in a hole between the regular CTS and the full V model. No one really looks for them since they aren’t the full V and people who might look at lower trims are put off by the higher cost and lack of awd.
Why did you buy that particular model, if I may ask…?
Wanted something nice but a bit sporty to commute in, and it’s done well at that. At the time I was commuting in an area with a lot of traffic, so I wanted something comfy still sporty and automatic. I can’t complain too much, I bought the car used as well so I missed the bulk of depreciation. I want to get back into a manual for my daily now that I have less traffic to deal with.
How much did you buy it for, and at what mileage?
Paid a dealer about 28k in fall of 2018, (car is a 2014) car had a little over 40k miles on it. I’ve not done too bad overall, just a bit of bemoaning depreciation.
Alright. so 7 years and 80k for $14 thou. Around $200/month to drive a pretty darn nice Caddy seems like a great choice.
wow I didnt realize the prices on these dropped so hard, but yea the mileage and being an early model year does explain some of it. I adore these, super underrated. They handle like a dream (as in, they are very fun to drive and inspire confidence), are comfortable, seem reliable, are big enough for daily life and have a solid amount of power. They also can take to some modding too as the engine is mostly a detuned version of the one from the ATS-V. Many times I have thought about dropping my Cruze and getting one of these, but my cheap ass just cant take the idea of dropping a decently lower mile car that gets great fuel economy and and having to drop some cash down for a car that will probably have more miles on it and will comparatively gulp gas, especially with how I know I would drive it. And no manual option.
There’s some modding happening with these, mostly people seeing what from the ATS V will work with them. You can convert to the ATS V turbos which are larger and make no mistake the turbos are the 1st restriction you encounter for making power with these. Gas milage isn’t too bad especially highway, but having to run premium gets old. For what it’s worth they didn’t get the same 8 speed as other CTS’s they got an aisin box that apparently is better and stronger. The biggest headache these really have is shared with any GM 3.6 v6 which is that they can stretch timing chains over time.
GM vehicles without a V8 don’t really hold value, regardless of their other virtues.
Exactly. Wish I would’ve spent a bit more at the time and gotten a new SS.
Is that the one I always rediscover, thinking I’ve finally found what I’ve been looking for, then later rediscover that the manual gearbox was restricted to the blackwing?
No 3rd gen CTSs had a manual, even the V.
It returned for the Blackwing, by which time it had been renamed CT5.
The ATS-V did, though. Right?
Correct.
Thanks. I was gonna google it, but…yeah, anyway, lol.
I can’t exactly explain why, but, man, I find the “A”/4 so much more appealing than the big brother. Maybe it’s because I had the ATS and really, really liked it, or it’s a value proposition or something. Either way, the smaller Blackwing is my way.
Yea for some reason GM only allowed the ATS’s to get manuals at that time. The ATS could get a manual with the 2.0T or the N/A V6, along with the ATS-V. The real secret was the 2.0T, you could get that as a sedan with RWD and manual. Coupled with the great alpha chassis, it was an amazing car. but No CTS manuals at all at that time. Its essentially the only thing wrong with the CTS-V, that auto trans was very much just okay, and sometimes frustrating. Also, the Cadillac CUE System sucked in all these.
Classic GM. I would have bought a new CT5 a few months ago if not for these decisions. I neither need nor want to drive a $100k+ vehicle to work every day. I don’t want the payment. I don’t want the opportunity cost. I don’t want the depreciation. I don’t want to fuel economy. I don’t want the maintenance cost.
I don’t want an auto either. If I have to drive an auto, I’ll go electric.
I’ve got a ’12 CTS with a 6spd, 3.0V6, and 250k miles. My wife is convinced it is worth like 8-10k. I think I’d be lucky to get 2 considering it needs a clutch, fuel pump, rear diff, and a lot of hidden rust.
Any Cadillac is going to be a great commuter car, in any form offered.
Sell it to her quick before she changes her mind.
I wish I was in a position to buy! Coincidentally though, $14K is exactly what I owe on my new roof.
Good cars that depreciated more than others, making them more attractive as used cars. I.E. last Gen Sportage, Mazda 6, and even the Mazda CX-9.
Check out “Ice Pirates” by Sunspot Jonz, best verse by Del by a mile, it’s perfect.
For a second I thought you were referencing the go to bad 1980s The Ice Pirates movie.https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0087451/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0_tt_7_nm_1_in_0_q_ice%2520pir
This incredible “film” is also where first went with his comment.
Whenever any conversation goes to bad 80 movies I ALWAYS bring up the ice pirates movie.
I loved that film. I could have also been conservatively called a pot head around that time.
I’m still bullish on last-minute deals, carveouts, workarounds, etc. Trump’s game seems to be waiting until the last minute so he can take credit for putting the pressure on our
enemies, sorry, allies.Another interesting thing to me is the timing of the tariff surcharges. One one hand, manufacturers could all go ahead and start charging extra just based on the expectation that tariffs are coming (think about how gas prices go up on OPEC news, even though the fuel in the underground tanks was already bought at a lower price). We also saw a LOT of this during inflation, where items that didn’t face direct supply-side inflationary pressure still went up in cost…because they can.
However, I think that would be rough strategy for carmakers because it’s such a big-ticket item. And if you can’t collude with your competitors to do the same, it won’t work well. So it seems like most of them are just waiting until the tariff enactment date, or shortly thereafter, so they can claim that they can’t absorb the tariffs into their margins anymore.
More than anything, I’m curious to see if blanket “tariff surcharges” might end up infecting all car prices — not just because they’re substitute goods — but because spreading the costs among multiple product lines is a normal part of business. That’s why a Golf built in Mexico or German (note: all else equal, which is rarely the case) is the same price because the end consumers generally don’t care about it.
Kinda like how Hallmark announced a 10% price increase, even though all their stuff is made in Kansas.
The gouging is real.
Nope. Wrong again, Get Stoney. Many of Hallmark’s products are made overseas, specifically in China: https://www.distractify.com/p/where-are-hallmark-cards-made. Plus paper was invented in “Jina”, so maybe there’s a retroactive tariff on all paper products – with all the other insane policies being enacted, I wouldn’t be surprised.
If they buy their paper from China, their ink from China, their manufacturing equipment from China, I’m pretty sure their costs would go up despite manufacturing in the US….
To your point, today the US and UK announced a readjusted trade agreement wherein automotive tariffs on the UK are reduced from 27% to 10%, and UK steel will have 0% tariffs. However, the day is not over yet, so this adjustment could be readjusted.
So now we just need to wait and hear about the 199 other deals he said he’s already made.
We’re sorry for the early, incorrect tariff announcement. Those responsible have been sacked by DOGE.
And a Døgê once bït my sister!
“My hovercraft is full of Elons”
“What’s the best used car deal right now?”
The Tesla Model 3 is a great deal right now. You can get one that is 3 years old with 50k miles for the low $20s without any tax credits (are those still a thing?). You can get one that is a few years older for ~$17k that still has some of the original battery/motor warranty. They also require almost no maintenance and cost a few cents per mile to drive, if you can plug them in at home.
I know a lot of people aren’t open to owning a Tesla due to Elon (I get it – I don’t like him either), but that just means the deals are even better.
That also downplays the number of people who WILL now own a Tesla because Elon, at least tacitly, is an acceptable figure to so much of the right.
I’ve never seen a single product or brand do a turnaround this quickly, from “a car for nerds and greenies” to a car for everyone.
I hate the way that this has occurred, but from a business POV, I still don’t know if it’s hurt or helped Tesla. The numbers are growing by the day, but that’s mostly due to the depth of the used market.
I’m not sure Elon has substantially increased the number of conservatives who would choose a Tesla. I know several conservative leaning people who own Teslas (or other EVs) because they are practical transportation devices. Early EVs were primarily driven by left-leaning environmental enthusiasts, but I don’t think that has been the case for a while.
Also, polls seem to suggest Elon is unpopular among independents and a substantial fraction of moderate conservatives. He seems to appeal to the MAGA base, but most of them aren’t open to driving an EV even if they approve of Elon.
Certainly not the case here in FL. Teslas (even the CT) are all over the place. A substantial percentage of the total cars here that at least have Florida plates, and this area is “Trump flags on the stern of the boat” country.
I also live in Florida. I don’t think there has been any meaningful change in the number of Teslas here. I recall seeing several Teslas parked at houses with Trump signs or flags before the last election.
Yeah, I’m not implying there is some kind of uptick in sales, I’m just saying they are all over the place, almost even with the Monster Trucks, but slightly less than the Lexus and Caddy crowd.
A Tesla makes sense here. As long as you aren’t in a flood zone 1 or 2, obv…
I know the plural of anecdotes isn’t “data” but my BIL is a moderate conservative lawmaker in a very red state. He’s quasi-MAGA, but only to the extent that it doesn’t get him kicked out of the GOP (which means political suicide here).
My first question when he got a Model 3 a few months ago (note: before the DOGE insanity) was basically “Did Elon make this acceptable for you to drive publicly?” and he essentially said yes…even though he bought it for its technology and low-maintenance simplicity. He’s a practical guy, his last two cars were Ford Panthers (a Crown Vic interceptor and a Lincoln Town Car) and just wanted something to handle mid-range interstate commutes multiple times a week.
It’s the extra incurred costs (spray paint removal, new glass, etc) that I’d worry about.
Tesla vandalism is overstated. I wouldn’t want to drive one in Portland or Seattle, but in most other places it is fine.
I know somebody that said the same thing about Hyundais being stolen. Then his was.
Sure, it could happen. I have literally heard of zero cases of Tesla vandalism where I live, though, so it is not something I feel any need to worry about.
To your point. I was just in Seattle. I saw Teslas everywhere, none of which were vandalized.
Speaking for myself just out of principle I would never own a Tesla as long as Musk is in charge. I don’t care if I was offered one for $5000. I realize there are people who aren’t in the position to turn down a cheap car so I don’t hold it against those who don’t have the means for an alternative.
But I find musk and trump to be completely repulsive and those who cheer and support them to be utterly misguided.
“They also require almost no maintenance and cost a few cents per mile to drive, if you can plug them in at home.”
That VERY much depends on your local utility and employer whims.
Here in PG&E land even overnight residential charging rates put EV energy costs on par with gasoline without even factoring in charger losses. As such EVs are a hard sell for me.
Plugging in at a for profit charger will cost much more, plugging in at your employer or city hall may cost less.
“That VERY much depends on your local utility and employer whims.”
True. I have heard that electricity is incredibly expensive in some places. I can only speak from my experience living in a place where it is relatively cheap. I pay ~$0.15 per kwh and get ~4.8 miles per kwh, so my Model 3 is very cheap to drive. I probably would be less enthused about owning an EV if I lived in a place with expensive electricity.
Agree, but have a curveball to it. The Tesla 3 is a hell of a deal for a hell of a car. But if you don’t need a hell of a car and can live with the limitations, the low prices of Model 3s are pushing down the prices of more limited EVs like the Bolt or Leaf or whatever. If you don’t need a road trip car, you can get a Bolt with a new battery (buyback title) for $12-15k before tax incentive. Not as good a car, but perhaps a better deal for your particular situation.
Very good point. The Model 3 is a solid deal for a nice EV, but a more utilitarian EV like the Bolt or Leaf is a better deal if access to the Supercharger network is not a priority.
I have two cars. One’s only been more than 100 miles from home 3 times in its 15 years of service. The last time I drove about 150 miles from home and came back. If I had a Bolt, I would have had to have a charge at some point. But 100 miles of charging is about 30 minutes. Given all the other driving I do normally where I have to stop and get gas on my old ICE, a 30 minute pause during 300 miles of driving on the highway once every 5 years doesn’t seem bad.
I considered one but with the amount of vandalism of anything related to Tesla where I am changed my mind. I ended up with a used Polestar 2. I don’t have a home charger so I rely on public charging. So far I’ve gotten along fine with the 56 cents /kWh (!!) charging rates. It’s actually about on par with the fuel costs for my Saab 9-3. Of course, if I wasn’t in an apartment I’d have a home charger installed.
The best used car deal is the same as it always was. An older Toyota/Lexus/Scion, elderly owned, always garaged, under 100k, full service records.
UNLESS the elderly person was bad at driving and the car is covered in dents/scratches/dings.
But then *I* would have to drive the thing. No thanks.
But I did buy a mint condition 18yo and 49K mile Camry V6 for my mother a few years back. It was adequate for her needs.
Not sure I agree. And I’m a Toyota owner. The issue with Toyotas is that they have about twice the miles as a competitor’s car of the same year at the same price. Sure a Toyota has a reputation for lasting twice as long, but you have to do the math.
Like if a Toyota has 250k miles and you figure it will last until 300k miles, it might not be a better deal than a non-Toyota with 100k miles that might last to 150k miles. Because with the non-Toyota, you are likely getting a newer vehicle more features that will be nicer to drive for those 50k miles before it needs work.
Don’t buy one with 200k. Buy one with 100k. They’re out there.
2009 Toyota owner here.
Still under 100K.
We walk amongst you.
Last value check put it at about 4-5K used to private seller/buyer.
I would not sell it for less than 10K now.
“I know what I have.”
I saw a 09 or 10 Tacoma with almost 200k, the ask was $17,000. Ouch!
Exactly.
Should have been more clear above though.
I just don’t even consider selling my car.
But when budget allows will consider something additional for fun.
Well this is excellent news to me. I have an 08 Pre-Runner with 188k on it. Ill give the Autopian family and friends discount of $14k!
This used to be the ultimate cheat code, but at least in my region these cars tend to be nearly twice as expensive as the non-Toyota equivalent, for the same mileage. We tried this method when my brother was shopping a few years back, and we simply couldn’t find a used Toyota under 10k with less than 150k miles on it. It’s only gotten worse. Those grandma cars seem more and more likely to stay in the family, because those families know what they’ve got.
If you manage to find a deal on a granny Toyota, by all means snap it up immediately. But the higher priced ones can be a poor deal; when you buy a Toyota with 150k on it for more than 10k (I’m talking Corollas that probably sold new for 20k) these cars really can’t exceed their expectations. You’re taking a gamble (used is always at least somewhat of a gamble) and it’s a low floor, low ceiling sort of gamble.
I’m usually more fond of finding cars from brands that don’t have the best reputations, but the research shows weren’t bad cars at all. These are the cars you can score deals on, that have at least a chance of exceeding expectations.
It may take some time an effort to find that golden Toyota.
And it WILL be painted that golden color…
And possibly with golden badges! That’s how you know there’s leather inside.
And that leather will be pleated on the door cards, just like an 80’s Benz.
It really will be.
Say what you will about 90’s to early 00’s Camrys, the interiors are pretty damn nice. The ’98 I used to drive was only an LE, but was probably the nicest interior of anything I’ve ever owned, even after it hit 250k.
My kid’s ’92 LE, with 390,000 miles, still has a nice blue interior. The dash isn’t cracked, the seats aren’t ripped, and most of the trim looks good. Of course, the plastic tabs for the power lock switches broke.
Impressive yet unsurprising at the same time. Simply overbuilt cars. This is one of those “they don’t make them like they used to”.
Ended up with my 2013 CRV (115,000 klms) because the comparable priced rav4s all had near / over 200,000 klms. As a Toyota fan, the Toyota tax is not worth it.
Because everyone knows this, the Toyota tax is very real. I’ve found that depending on which particular vehicle you are talking about, there is reliable competitor in the market that won’t carry that tax. Want a Tacoma? Consider a Canyon. Want a Tundra? Consider a Titan. Want a Corolla? Consider any number of compact cars that are actually highly reliable.
There are no compact cars as reliable as a Toyota. Maybe the Civic, but that’s about it.
Don’t even get me started on the un-reliableness of the Koreans.
As always, the best used car deal is going to come from an elderly person who doesn’t need the vehicle any longer and just wants to give you a good deal because you are polite.
The second best is a depreciated EV.
I got my 2025 Maverick in February and I love it but even then I only felt good about it because of my Ford employee discount that got me $2,200 under MSRP. Another $2k on top of MSRP makes it a tough buy, even if it doesn’t have any competitors in the hybrid/AWD/4k tow configuration.
Best used is probably Bolt EVs with new batteries, after I’d say other EVs as depreciation on them is terrible.
The nice thing about depreciated EVs is they tend to have low miles (less suspension wear), and the powertrain can have pretty long warranties (as David Tracy discovered https://www.theautopian.com/i-bought-a-high-mileage-electric-car-with-a-bad-battery-heres-why-that-was-actually-a-stroke-of-genius/ )
Instead of The Suck, I propose a term from “The Expanse”: The Churn.
“The Churn is some event that changes the rule for the way you live without giving you a choice to participate. Old norms are uplifted, old habits are forcibly broken, and your current way of life no longer can sustain itself.” — Attributed to Prodiuss
This is perfect. I use that to refer to pretty much anything at work where changes get made and I have zero say in it
Damn, and I love The Expanse. Ok, you win.
“AND ALWAYS TWIRLING, TWIRLING, TWIRLING. TOWARDS FREEDOM.”
“I actually think there’s some opportunity in the future in the crapbox used car space.”
Whew!! You had me nervous for a second there!
Best used car deal? Right now? Volvo V90 T6 Cross Country. Does everything well. Reliable enough. Best seats known to man. Gorgeous looking. Epic depreciation. Can come in BROWN.
You can find them all day long with reasonable miles for 25K.
Please tell me where!!! Seriously. I am looking – don’t see anything that cheap right now. I guess this depends upon your definition of “reasonable miles”.
Under 100K miles. 20-25K seems to be the price in the 80K mile range. There’s a beautiful brown one in Texas for 25k.
I’ve seen a few in Florida.
CPO Volvo sedans and wagons are fantastic deals – but choices are quite limited. I was looking at CPO Cadillacs for a little bit – a lot of options if you like a sedan. All the depreciation of a luxury car, plus the depreciation of a sedan, combined into a package that’s more reliable than a 5 series and cheaper to own. Genesis CPO prices were also good, but a lot more options from Cadillac.