Yes, once again, we have Pontiac versus Ze Germans. But this time, they’re a little more evenly matched: both are AWD sedans with V6s and automatic transmissions, both are rare cars these days, and both will have you combing eBay for parts if the wrong system fails. Sound like fun? Too bad, it’s what we’re doing.
You all weren’t too happy about choosing between two Chrysler products yesterday either. I’m always a little saddened by assertions that a particular car, or make of car, is “complete crap,” with nothing redeeming about it. I just don’t think that’s true of any car. Sure, there are cars I wouldn’t buy again because of bad experiences (looking at you, GM-era Saab), but I can still find something positive to say about even the worst old hoopties I’ve had to drive. Besides, if you hated this choice, just wait until you see what I’m going to make you choose between later in the week.
Grandma’s Acclaim won yesterday’s vote, by a narrow margin, based mostly on its lower mileage and better condition. I think it’s worth the extra $500 as well; that van looks like it was ridden hard and put away wet. Grandma took good care of her car, and it shows. Besides, the 2.5/Torqueflite combo won’t win any drag races, but it’s reliable and easy to maintain.
All-wheel-drive cars are common these days, but back in the 80s and 90s, they were few and far between. But it seemed like nearly every manufacturer dabbled with 4WD or AWD at the time: the Ford Tempo, Mazda Protege, Nissan Sentra, Toyota Camry, Dodge Caravan, and Pontiac 6000 were all available with driveaxles going to all four wheels. Subaru and Audi, of course, made a business out of selling 4WD and AWD cars and did them well. You don’t see many of the others these days; I don’t think any of them sold particularly well. I haven’t seen an AWD Pontiac 6000 listed for sale in many years, and when the next listing was for an Audi Quattro only a few years newer, I knew it was meant to be. So here they are.
1989 Pontiac 6000 STE – $5,500
Engine/drivetrain: 3.1-liter OHV V6, three-speed automatic, AWD
Location: Waterford, WI
Odometer reading: 49,000 miles
Operational status: Runs and drives, but needs a little work
General Motors was trying really hard to run with the Europeans in the 80s, without a whole lot of success. Cadillac went after Audi 4000 and BMW 318i buyers with the Cimarron, which frankly was like bringing a banana to a gun fight. Chevy tried to add some black and red trim to the Celebrity and actually called it the Eurosport – which didn’t fool anybody. Pontiac offered a similar package on its 6000 sedan, called the STE, for Special Touring Edition. It was no match for a BMW 5 Series, which is what GM wanted it to be, but it was a pretty cool Pontiac.
The STE package included the optional V6, originally 2.8 liters but punched out to 3.1 liters by 1989. Front-wheel-drive STEs could be had with either an automatic or a five-speed manual, but the AWD version was automatic-only. Worse, it wasn’t even the four-speed TH440-T4, but the lowly TH125C three-speed unit. This car might have been a whole lot better received if it had a stick. This one has been sitting for decades and has only 49,000 miles on its fancy digital odometer. It runs and drives, and the seller has driven it short distances, but the cooling fan is dead, and it needs some brake work. It probably needs more than that, actually, after sitting so long.
The STE was the top of the 6000 range, which, since it’s a 1980s Pontiac, means buttons. Lots and lots of buttons. It has stereo controls on the steering wheel, which are redundant to the thousand or so buttons on the stereo itself. The climate controls are also a bunch of tiny buttons. The power seat controls are a bunch more buttons in the center console. How many of those buttons still work after thirty years in a barn is anyone’s guess. But it does all look nice and clean inside, at least.
It has a couple of rust spots outside, but the seller includes some underside photos, and it all looks good under there. The paint is shiny, and all the trim is intact. You’d be the belle of the ball at an 80s-themed car gathering in this car, for sure; there can’t be very many left.
1996 Audi A6 Quattro – $4,500
Engine/drivetrain: 2.8-liter OHC V6, four-speed automatic, AWD
Location: Danville, KY
Odometer reading: 110,000 miles
Operational status: Runs and drives well
Audi wasn’t the first to stick an all-wheel-drive system under a passenger car – that would be Jensen – but it took the concept and ran with it. After changing the face of rally racing with the original Quattro, Audi became synonymous with all-wheel-drive. Audi makes two-wheel-drive cars, but who cares? That little Quattro badge on the back is what we all came to see.
The original Quattro system featured manually-lockable differentials and was available with a manual transmission only, but by 1996 an automatic transmission was available, and the diffs took care of themselves. The funky five-cylinder engine was also gone, replaced by an overhead-cam V6. It’s a more fitting drivetrain for a comfy executive-class sedan, but it’s not as much fun. This one runs and drives great, and has just had its timing chain replaced, along with a new radiator and thermostat.
This one has a lot of buttons on the dash as well, come to think of it. It has all the bells and whistles you’d expect from a German luxury sedan, and this is well before the touch-screen era. This is the only clear shot we get of the interior, but it looks good in there.
This pearl-white color was the color for Audis in the 90s. It seems bland, but photos do not do it justice. It’s really pretty in bright sunlight. Personally, I’d prefer dark green, which was the other common color for these, but I wouldn’t kick this one out of my garage. It’s nice and shiny, and rust shouldn’t be a problem; Audi started galvanizing its bodies in the 80s.
Every family crossover has all-wheel-drive these days, but it used to be something special. One of these is an evolution of a legend, and the other is a valiant attempt to emulate it. Neither one will be low-maintenance, and parts for both will be an increasing problem as time goes by. So your mission is to decide which one is more worth the trouble: the one-off American special, or the classic German with a pedigree?
I do feel like maybe a Ford Tempo AWD would be a better competitor for the Pontiac here though. https://classiccars.com/listings/view/743425/1989-ford-tempo-sedan-awd-for-sale-in-canton-georgia-30115
The Pontiac is rare, but the demand isn’t enough to justify the price. The Audi is fine and could be a quick resale with the Quattro.
I really, really wanted to vote for the Pontiac, as I thought these were so good back in the day. I do like the colour a lot, but that’s just not enough to offset the Audi being a better vehicle at a lower price, so I had to go for the German.
Got to pick the Pontiac ‘goolie’ AWD that is rare and different. Fix whats wrong and clean it up its good to go. A body and 3.1 parts are not difficult to obtain. I believe the AWD system became the basis of Versatrack used on later Pontiacs/ Buicks
This era of Audi wasn’t bad, certainly much better vs. the end of the decade.
Audi is my pick… a sentence I didn’t think I’d say, ever.
The Pontiac is crackhead priced, but still better than any Audi LOL
I like that 6000 STE more than I should (and also the Olds International Series too)
The Audi should be fun and comfortable when it works, the Pontiac is red and I like the wheels. Today I choose the Audi, but mainly because it seems like it has been driven and cared for, cars in storage don’t get maintained.
I always wonder how GM managed to make such ugly cars back in the day. Dear Lord, my eyes.
Audi all day.
I went with the Pontiac. There is nothing that would get me to buy another Audi. All the longitudinal drivetrain layouts are fundamentally flawed by connecting the front axles behind the engine.
lol sure flawed, terrible design
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UNG3bKCqeM
Timing chain? The later DOHC version of this 2.8 (code AHA, ATQ) most definitely had a belt. Interesting that the predecessor had a chain, if the listing is accurate.
Funny to watch manufactuers jump around between chains and belts over the years. Tradeoff of NVH vs durability, from what I’ve heard. I’m sure there’s a cost factor, too.
These had belts.
Correction: The WRC battled tested 5 cylinder wasn’t gone, it came in the S version of this car, the first S car sold in the USA, hence why they’re called UrS4/S6. This chassis (C4) was a little confusing, as it was originally the Audi 100, and the 5 cylinder turbo/manual trans was the first S4 (UrS4). In 1995 they renamed it the A6, and the S4 became the first S6 (UrS6).
It’s a great chassis that still drives well today, and extremely safe. Parts are plentiful due to the popularity of this chassis overseas, so you can find dang near anything for it.
Anyone throwing shade at Audi’s reliability is ignorant here; these were reliable cars. It was the cost cutting of the next generation of Audis that created maintenance nightmares, starting with the B5 and it’s overly complex suspension design, and the 10lbs of crap in a 5lb bag 2.7TT.
The C4 platform is simple, reliable, safe, etc.
You are correct. This was probably Audi’s most reliable era. That all changed with B5 stuff you mentioned above… what fucking nightmares VAG produced starting in ~1997 and beyond… yikes.
Good to know. I saw post 80s Audi and assumed it was from the bad period.
Voted Pontiac. I road in a nearly identical Audi with my carpool mate for years, it had issue after issue that were minor but difficult. Rear wheel bearings were almost always making noise and a pain to replace in the frozen and rusty north, other minor things went bad and were buried in places nobody wanted to touch, etc. I think it was a thermostat that finally took it out as nobody wanted to take enough of the engine apart to replace it on such an old car.
Pontiac at least is quirky enough to be cool.
My best friend drove his mother’s 6000LE back in the day. He used to leave the windows open and keys on the seat when we parked hoping someone would steal it. No one ever did. I’ll still take the Pontiac over Audi.
Had to go with the Pontiac. Never knew they made an AWD version. I owned a first year A4. What a damned nightmare that was. As much as I like that Audi. Never again.
I wanted to want the Pontiac. Without the AWD, and for $1000 less, I would have taken it, but that’s not the game is it? No we have to choose from what’s here – and what I”m seeing is a whole lotta “nope” with the GM AWD beta test. Unreleated, but I remember a coworker who bought the same kind of thing when Ford made it available on the Tempo. After a year or two, and likely some heavy issues in the shop, she was straight up told NEVER to press the AWD button….NEVER. I have a feeling that’s going to be the case here as well. The Audi presents well, the AWD will probably work just fine, and there will be some other thing that will make you hate life when it breaks, but it will at least look and function fine until then.
My grandfather briefly owned an AWD Tempo and was impressed by it’s snow driving capability. Until he took it for brakes, and they informed him that the rear axles had been removed.
I used to own an 87 Tempo AWD, and i would remove the rear half shafts during the summer because it would eat the u joints
I went with the Audi largely because that pearl white is the best color. Though, note that it is a three-stage paint which is nigh impossible to color match, so don’t get you in any accidents.
That said, with the NA V6 and a slush box the power is going to be pretty anemic.
It got a lot better around 2000 when they stuck two turbos on that motor.
It actually got worse, the 2.7TT is great on paper but a complete nightmare. The 5 cylinder is what you want, and finding a rough UrS4/S6 to swap the drivetrain into this one would net you a 300+hp cruiser that’s extremely easy to maintain.
I’ve owned three B5 S4s (with the 2.7 V6 Biturbo) with 330 – 460hp. Honestly, they’ve all been really solid cars. Of course they’re German with all that entails, but like any car, take care of them and you’re generally okay.
That being said, the 5 cylinder is a great engine and I’d love to have an RS2 or an UrS4 at some point.
I bet one of the animators at Pixar drove Pontiac 6000 STE and got inspired to do this scene.
Higher price of the Pontiac will be offset by cost savings on parts. It’s the only sensible way to go when shitbox shopping.
I really like both! But as a pontiac man I couldn’t pass on the STE, tho it is a bit high, could negotiate them down a bit, be a great Radwood car!
I spotted that Pontiac this weekend on marketplace. And while truthfully I wouldn’t touch either of these with a 10′ pole, the Pontiac is a way more interesting thing for me.
A part of me wants to vote for the Pontiac as I’ve always had a soft spot for the 6000STE.
But the seller is asking too much money for a car that needs new brake lines and has a non-functional cooling fan.
The seller seems to have the dumb idea that using the words “barn find” means you can charge more.
So my vote goes to the Audi… it’s a better all around car, it’s cheaper and hasn’t been sitting unused in a ‘barn’. And the mileage, while higher, isn’t that meaningful given the age.
I somewhat reluctantly take the Audi. Even if there’s some evidence in that interior photo that the headliner is probably super saggy (look at the A-pillar). The Pontiac is somehow a more interesting survivor, but if it’s been sitting for that long, I’d imagine nearly all the rubber in it is toast. I’m not sure that’s the car I’d want to put that sort of effort into.
I went with the Audi. It is not something I would actually buy, but it is a nice-looking car and looks to be in decent condition.
It would have been hard to get me to vote for the 6000. I see most late ’80s and early ’90s American cars (specifically cars; not trucks, vans, or SUVs) as old cars and not classic/interesting cars. I’m sure this has to do with my experience with these vehicles. I rarely rode in them when new; I did spend a lot of time driving or riding in them in high school and college, though. These cars would have been old at this point. Most were hand-me-downs or four owner shitboxes bought for three (or even two) figures. As a result, I have few memories of these as “good” cars and a lot of memories of these as cheap, unreliable transportation. I recall many instances of vehicles like the 6000 not starting, breaking down on the side of the road, or even catching fire. Based on my experiences, I suspect I will always see late ’80s/early ’90s American cars as undesirable garbage, even when they are in good condition. Maybe someday mark will find a car bad enough for me to vote for something like this 6000, but today isn’t the day.
Definitely the Pontiac. It may not be quite as reliable as the Audi and it is significantly older, but at least it does not look bland. My brother had one with one trim lower in the 90s and it was a blast being taken to middle school in it.
The Pontiac is priced way too high for what it is and what it needs to even run properly.
I’ve had two older Audis (although) newer than this. If the timing chain is new, then the Audi is the better option of these two by quite a margin.
The V6 in the Pontiac is an OHV engine, so timing chain is right up front and a relatively simple job if it ever needs to be done, which could be a while still.