Imagine you’re buying a new van. You want something with plenty of seats, and you want it to be roomy and comfortable enough to take on long journeys with your family and friends. You decide on a Volkswagen ID.Buzz, in part because you found the third-row seats to be especially spacious and accomadating. Only then do you find out there’s been a recall for that very reason.
As covered by Road & Track, NHTSA isn’t happy with the US version of the ID.Buzz. The problem with Volkswagen’s electric van is clear: the third row seats are bigger than government regulations allow.
On the face of it, it sounds like nonsense. Surely automakers can make seats as big as they want, right? Well, actually, no. There are strict rules around the size of third-row seats in the US due to expected customer behaviors.
It all comes down to DSPs, an abbreviation for “designated seating positions.” The third row in the ID.Buzz is designed with two designated seating positions, as is obvious by the two seatbelts provided. The problem is that the seat is too wide to have only two designated seating positions. According to the recall notice, “the calculated seating surface width of the third-row rear bench exceeds the maximum value specified in 49 CFR Part 571.10 for two (2) DSPs.” Thus, the ID.Buzz is in violation of Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards.
Basically, the authorities think the seat is wide enough that you’ll sneakily put three people in the third row, even though there are only two seatbelts. This would mean that the unsecured passenger would be at increased risk of injury in a crash.
To meet the regulations, Volkswagen should have made the seats narrower to avoid this temptation. It doesn’t matter that the owner’s manual states the seating capacity quite clearly, nor that there are only two seatbelts. The physical dimensions still have to be small enough to meet the regulations.
The “cause” of the recall is quite amusing—NHTSA documents list it as an “error in the interpretation of 49 CFR Part 571.10.” That basically means the engineers and designers at Volkswagen read the regulations, but misunderstood their intended meaning.
In this case, the recall might seem a bit frivolous. The third row seating very obviously has two distinct seating positions and is not intended to have a third person sitting in the middle. It’s a back row for children and small-to-medium monogamous couples with no third wheels.
At the same time, it’s easy to understand why this regulation exists. If it didn’t, automakers could fit super-wide bench seats in cars and vans with only one seatbelt, claiming they only counted as one seating position. Obviously, such a design would encourage using the benches without seatbelts, and this would have negative safety implications. Volkswagen’s error is easier to understand as a mistake rather than a genuine attempt to circumvent the rules.
Thankfully, the fix is not too onerous. An additional trim will be fitted into the third-row seating area which will effectively reduce the available seating surface to be in compliance with the regulations. Owners will be hoping the trim doesn’t cut too far into the seating area to the point that it disrupts passenger comfort. Volkswagen is recalling 5,637 examples of the ID.Buzz, which likely covers all examples brought to the US at this stage.
It’s an oddball mistake to make on Volkswagen’s part, that much is certain. Automakers employ huge numbers of engineers and spend many billions on developing new vehicles, and it’s rare that they miss an obvious part of a long-standing regulation. It seems likely that one or more engineers over at headquarters will have bratwurst on their faces after this one.
Image credits: federal regulations, Volkswagen
The regulations are as the people it regulates.
“It seems likely that one or more engineers over at headquarters will have bratwurst on their faces after this one.”
Do you mean Volkswagen Originalteil part number 199 398 500 A?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_currywurst
Ehhhh, I get it, but also can’t stop to think about how I once shoved 8 people in my Beetle.
Gotta love finding out how incredibly stupid some regulations are…
what is legally forcing owners to get this recall done? i guess the fear of lawsuit if you get in a crash and someone in the back row is injured?
We signed a purchase agreement on ours 3 weeks ago and couldn’t bring it home because of the brake malfunction dash indication already contributing to a stop sale. Then this happened. A couple hours earlier and we would be driving ours
That’s a ridiculous rule. Not because I advocate going without seatbelts in any way, shape, or form, but because (for example) my family had bought a Ford Flex specifically because the front seats were wide enough to accommodate an overweight acquaintance.
I hate to side with “The Man”, but I understand the regulation. Some happy camper will shove their young child into the middle position and then have an accident and sue Volkswagen for not having a center seat belt. “If no one was supposed to sit there, why is the seat so wide? Oh, I miss my child! Money will help.”
One sub-zero Canadian night in about 1972 we crammed 4 adults, 3 children and an infant into a single-cab pickup. It was either that of come back later for the frozen bodies.
This is a fucking joke. No wonder cars are so expensive. What a dumb regulation. Control freaks can scream from the mountain tops that regulation saves lives, yeah, smart and logical regulation like seatbelts save lives. Not this. This is neither smart nor logical.
The third person would have the joy of sitting atop the seatbelt latches.
So how far off is it from the maximum 2-seat width?
It’s not like American asses are getting smaller.
Who the hell is going to bother bringing their car in to get this one done?
I couldn’t see myself doing it. I look forward seeing one in the future listed on Autotrader or something similar where VIN is listed and it says “OPEN RECALL” and it’s for this.
The rule isn’t dumb. It’s just saying that obvious seating space needs seat belts.
VWs fix is dumb. They could have put in a middle lap belt option. Instead they added cheap trim.
Can’t get by with just a lap belt anymore, a full three point belt is required even in rear middle seats. So they would need to include the hardware for the seatbelt and maybe also a middle headrest and would need to do it in a way that doesn’t interfere with how the seats fold lest they have to reengineer the entire mechanism. After that, they might have to redo the crash testing to include that middle seat.
All of that is on top of this being a recall, so unless they wish to replace the entire rear seat in every recalled vehicle, the simple trim piece is a much better fix. Maybe they’ll go for a three person seat in a facelift/model refresh, but probably not now.
Yeah, I know.
I’m just frustrated that they went with two seats, then, to solve the size problem, they went the cheapest route by taking a away even more.
They need lap and shoulder belts and to engineer and test anchor points for them. What’s dumb was missing the measurements, but this after-the-fact “fix” isn’t and I imagine a lot of people won’t bother. I definitely wouldn’t. I won’t even bring my car in for a tail light recall because the fault (indicator can rapid flash at certain angles of sunlight I almost never encounter) isn’t enough of a problem to deal with waiting around and giving someone the opportunity to damage the car. I’m pretty sure they can’t hand me the new set for me to swap them myself.
No the regulation is dumb. Blanket legal/illegal things are everywhere in life. Like, you must wear a seatbelt. That’s not going to force people to wear one. You must not put three people in the back seat is the same thing as you must wear a seatbelt, or you must drive the speed limit, or you must have insurance, the list goes on and on.
The rule isn’t “Can’t put 3 people in the back.” The rule is that a space where people can clearly sit must have a seatbelt.
These all sound like very reasonable rules. People are very very stupid. People should have insurance. And companies are very cheap and uncaring; their only motivation is money (by design, I’m not complaining). Without government rules, companies will absolutely find any way to save a penny regardless of human lives.
In a moment of “yes, but…” we have “yes, but there is not a space where people can clearly sit.” The seats are wide, but the seatbelt anchors are directly in the ass of anyone attempting to use a third spot. The seats are sculpted for two people, clearly designed to be only used by two people, and there is no actual place for a third person. They’re two very big seats put close together.
This isn’t really about making a buck by cutting out seatbelts where people would sit. It’s about designing something specifically for one use and the regulation assuming there is a second use which is actually impossible.
FMV Safety Standards clearly need to be revised to accommodate the current average American ass. Or maybe they’re counting on Wegovy adjustments to ass mass.
This is seriously the dumbest rule I’ve ever heard of. What if you wanted to fit two obese people on the third row. Oh sorry guys, there used to be more room back there but government interference, you know how it is.
What a shame, they will ruin the road trip experience because now we will be back to:
MOM…she’s touching me……
Stop touching me….
MOM !!!!
I recall something like this with Landrover Defender 110s in the UK in the early oughts. Because the 12 seat version was a considered minibus it was taxed at a lower rate than a 10 seater so lots of people bought them. Then driver’s licensing changed and newer drivers needed a bus endorsement to drive a 12 seater. The cheap fix was to shorten the benches in the way back by 6″ and remove 2 seat belts. Thus making a 10 seater.
I really want to see how the OTA update to fix this works.
Lame, but also I remember fitting five of my cousins in the back seat of a Caprice in the early 90s while another cousin sat with my two grandparents on the front bench, so I can see it.
we still climb in a trunk on occasion when there’s 7 people and 5 seats
I just really make sure to remind the driver to not get rear ended
My Volvo C30 has a center arm rest in the rear that can be folded up on the global models, but not on the USDM models. I was always told it was so Americans wouldn’t try to put three people back there, but had no idea there was actually a regulation about it!
So Type R’s only have two seating positions in the back seat, for maximum load reasons, and they just plop two cup holders on the bottom cushion in the center. I always wondered why they didn’t use a normal Civic seat back there with an armrest and just leave out the middle seatbelt. Now I know.
WOW that is fucking stupid. Time to harmonize and accept the international UNECE standards.
So what’s the fix? Putting a console or divider between the seats? A minivan can never have enough cupholders LOL
Here’s the additional trim that will be wedged between the seats:
https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81i4Y0eXwaL.jpg
Yeah, this is absolutely asinine. This is one recall it might be worth ignoring
This is among the most stupid things about the Buzz – as I’ve ranted before, if you are buying a minivan you almost certainly want three small back row seats instead of two ginormous ones. Basically every real minivan has three seats in the way back row – I cannot find any examples that do this. Situations where you are carrying six full grown adults certainly exist, but you can still make two big seats in the back row and add in a mini third seat space. I find it hilarious that VW screwed this up so royally just based on practical purposes, and also that this is in fact not a way that you can legally design it. Put another damn seatbelt in back there!!!
My Ford Transit Connect only has two seats in the back, and the seating space is that same size, although they made the seats themselves slightly smaller.
Hey! I love those third row seats in the Transit Connect! Nice one!
having ridden in the back row of a Chryster town an country as an adult male, I can happily tell you that they were not meant to sit 3 unless they were very small children.
100% agree, and this is 100% my point. You already have four other full size seats. Maybe some people need two more full size seats in the back row, but I bet wayyyyyy more people who are buying a minivan would rather have seating for up to 8. But what do I know?! Very little!
people like that with 5+ kids of their own just get shuttle vans for their flock or take two SUVs everywhere once the oldest can drive
you can see them rolling into sunday mass all the time.
… of their own …
Agreed! They are on the Transit Van or whatever.
But that’s not what I mean.
I mean you have kids or grandkids so you get a minivan, its nice to be able to load up the cousins or neighbors for a short trip around town.
and there are options with seating for 8 and up if you need one
most people don’t actually need one, but they like the option to force everyone in one car so they go buy a 3 row crossover
true – there are tons of 8 seat options – not sure why I want to force VW to make that an option on the Buzz, haha
Oh maaan, NHTSA would have hated what we did with Fieros back in the day. You can cram six people into one if you’re really friendly and willing.
I may or may not have had 4 people in the back of an RX-8 once upon a time. Only three up front. It was honestly far more comfortable that you’d expect.
I had three friends that did a six hour road trip in a CRX once, third person hung out in the hatch.
Considering the CRX had a backseat in foreign markets, that honestly doesn’t even sound that bad.
We used a CRX as a family car back in the day. My sister and I in the back (heads down or with a blanket covering us) and my parents in the front seats.
In high school we rode 4 people in a Fiat X1-9 by having 2 people stand behind the front seats. I was one of the standees.
Also, my father was known to drive myself and 2 friends around in his Triumph TR-7. Two of us would sit in the passenger seat, and one on the armrest. He was a lawyer at the DOJ at the time.
3 in the seat and one across heir lap is pretty standard in high school when yu have more bodies than seats
6? I could see 3, with someone on the center console and crouching, 4 with someone in the passenger’s lap, maybe 5 if someone sits on the driver as well, but how are you stacking two people on top of the console? Unless, remove the sunroof for headroom?
Yeah we had two on the console, two in the passenger seat, and one in the passenger foot well, plus the driver. I’m not saying we were smart.
Ah, the foot well, that makes sense, there is a surprising amount of leg room. But I am still surprised there was enough vertical space above the console to even squeeze two people there