Last night, while driving my 1954 Willys to Harbor Freight to buy a foam-cannon for my pressure washer so I can prep our Pontiac Aztek for sale, I spotted a classic automotive breakdown. A vehicle was on the shoulder of the road with its front left wheel having detached from the chassis, and of course it was the 3rd-gen Toyota 4Runner — known by some as the 3Runner for obvious reasons.
I stopped to have a look, and to assure the rather frazzled owner that this isn’t a huge deal, and the’ll probably just need some new ball joints and a few brake parts, and they’ll be on their way. I can’t imagine it’ll cost more than $500, I told them.
Here you can see where the front suspension dragged on the road — there’s a little gray line on the road:
And here’s the carnage; look at how the knuckle separated from both ball joints!
This is a design flaw that has affected far too many 3Runners. Yes, it’s avoidable, and yes it can happen to other vehicles, but it happens way too often on 3rd Gen 4Runners. It pretty much never happens on Jeeps, but Jeeps have other issues.
The Jeep Cherokee XJ’s major flaw? The neutral safety switch tend to give up the ghost, as does the Crankshaft position sensor. XJs are also super under-cooled due to radiator packaging constraints, and once they overheat, there’s often a head-crack between the valves.
So for today’s Autopian Asks, I ask you: What are some examples of well-know weak-links in the auto world?
Audi V6/V8 timing chains
VW 4 cylinder timing chains
Ford 3.5 (longitudinal) Ecoboost Timing Chains
Ford 3.3/3.5/3.7 (transverse) Timing Chains and water pump
Jag/Land Rover V6/V8 Timing chains
Jag/Land Rover Ingenium 4 cylinder/6 cylinder timing chains
BMW/Mini 4 cylinder timing chains
Mercedes 4 cylinder diesel OM651 timing chains
GM 3.6 timing chains
Thank you. For every person that complains about timing belts, I always think timing chains are usually worse, because the engine slowly goes out of time as the guides fail and the chains stretch. I’d rather deal with a belt replacement at a known interval.
Timing chains are absolutely worse. I’ve had 5 vehicles with timing belts, and never had one fail between recommended change intervals. I’ve worked on cars for 22 years, and have done at least a hundred timing chains that were supposed to have lasted the life of the vehicle, especially on 4-cylinder BMW and V6 Ford engines.
That’s a LOT of replacements of a “lifetime” designed system.
Because every single person who thinks (dry) timing belts are inferior, have not worked on nearly enough modern OHC engines with timing chains, thin oils, and OCI’s that are way too long.
Techs know the difference.
I know what you mean and also think DT is wrong but with a catch. I think I’d rather have a typical Japanese brand that uses a timing chain and has a 100-150K interval than one with a timing belt with a 60-100K interval, but for most other brands timing chains scare the crap out of me.
I personally believe a lot of the issues with timing chains is manufacturers pushing the oil change intervals too far pushing lower cost-of-ownership metrics. Some of the Fords are as infrequent as 10,000 miles between services, and I believe gm targets 8,000-mile services. I’m a fan of no more than every 5,000 miles, and yes that’s with full-synthetic.
We rarely see timing chains needing done at my shop with our customers who follow our recommended 5K mile interval, even for many of the most notorious vehicles. The ones who go to “0%” or beyond do, though, and of course the ones who don’t bother to check their oil level regularly on vehicles that are well-known to consume oil (gm, VAG, Mopar with the 1.4L & 2.4L, hyundai/Kia). The worst for a long while were the gm models with the 2.4L ecotec, but thankfully many of those have done what GMs do so well and are no longer on the road.
Ok, I’ll throw my hat in, 2005-2006 Jeep Wrangler TJ/LJ ECM/PCM/Computer/whatever you want to call it. The computers are known to go bad and wreak havoc when they get hot (limp mode, erratic idle, throwing codes, etc.). Doubt there are many/any OEM computers available through the dealer anymore so the fix is a 3rd party company called wranglerfix.com for new computer to the tune of about a grand. Had to do this on my 05 LJ. They claim the new computer is from a different Chrysler/Jeep/Dodge vehicle that they can flash with the programming for the 4.0. So far so good.
well and TUPY Heads cracking on the 4.0. Also the piss poor execution of the coil on plug trigger set up. who ever though a sealed, non engine lubed Distributor like device would survive very long was a failure at their job.
Rust. Not brand or model exclusive though. Also deer.
EH, Pretty much all Rams rust above the wheel arches in the bed, though Ford and Chevy are not immune here, though Ford is a bit less of a problem since the Switch to aluminum. Chevy cab corners on 2000-2008 Silverados. Basically if Amazon provides plastic cover ups for anything from multiple Chinesium dealers then of course it is a well known problem.
The cooling system on the E46 BMW is a joke. Anyone who buys one of these cars, the first thing you MUST do is go get the entire cooling system replaced. Once you do that.. the car is pretty great.
Any vehicle with Lucas electrical!!!!
Obligatory:
We all know why the Brits like their beer warm… Because Lucas also makes refrigerators!
Current Alfa Romeo Giulia sunroof cables breaking. It’s especially bad in the 2018 models. Read any forum from anywhere on the planet and there are huge numbers of people complaining about it. Alfa/Stellantis will cover the repair under the original warranty, but if you have an extended Alfa/Stellantis warranty like I do, they will not. The cost of repair is usually around $2k because of the way it’s designed.
My Triumph has had so many of its “well-known weak points” replaced it’s practically a Car of Theseus at this point.
It’s a classic, so you get to call them character.
It’s got so much character it makes me want to pull my hair out sometimes.
Lots of Ford stuff here, I’m seeing a trend.
Has anyone mentioned the Ford Tritons that shoot out their spark plugs?
2nd gen Chevy Volt:
-BECM failure
-EGR failure
-“Shift to Park”
I have mine display the Shift to Park intermittently and I hate it.
Mine does it occasionally too but I just literally jiggle the shifter and that’s it.
Yep. This is the way…I also don’t want to spend an entire afternoon replacing the sensor that may or may not fix it.
Haven’t gotten the ol’ STP yet, fairly certain the BECM has been done, and I know for a fact the EGR was done before my ownership. STP looks pretty simple for me to repair, but I have that sweet sweet CARB warranty, would try and get GM to do it before I spent the time and effort on it. I do occasionally prowl the web for an EGR at a reasonable price, I’d like to have one just in case. I rarely run the ICE though, and when I do it’s always on the highway.
Yeah I have the wacky CARB warranty too which makes me feel better. I worry that getting it honored might be a battle but I guess I’ll cross that road when I get to it. My BECM was definitely done under my ownership, I don’t think EGR ever has been. Currently at 55k.
The “shift to park” thing is endemic across the gm lineup with any of the cars that use that fore-aft PRNDL gear selector. Just had a customer this week with it on her 2022 Travesty. See it most often on the 2017+ acadias for whatever reason, along with their leaking CHMSL.
I believe the 2nd gen escapes share that same PTU design, but it isn’t cooked by the exhaust. I still suction out as much fluid as I can every 30k or so, but it’s always looked perfect. Ah well, I’ll get a million miles out of the stupid thing or die trying.
Any BMW N63 or S68 is doomed constant failure.
Older Chrysler minivans and their 100k miles transmissions. All BMWs come to mind, but I’ll mention the valve stem seals in the 2000’s era V8s like 550i. Ford Focuses (i think it was second gen) getting vacuum leaks and idoling at about 5k RPM. Porsche Cayenne turbo v8 cylinder scoring and loud clanking.
The 1999 Intrepid I bought from my FIL for $800 had a $22,000 stack of receipts and needed a new tranny at 110,000. I got 20k out of it, my wife crashed it into a tree during an ice storm, and the lady we sold it to put another 100k on it after we sold it ????♂️
$22k.. so basically it was like paying for a second car haha. that Intrepid was actually two.
Common enough for BMW to address, but not as common as believed on the N20 engine.
Suffered that one myself. Was able to fool Carvana into buying that off me before it got ugly.
Thought for sure it was going to happen to mine, and I made it 134000 miles with no issues before I sold it. Gosh I miss that car.
Does Ford have a near monopoly on horrible auto transmissions? Manuals? amazing. Autos? even with good care and maintenance, seem to go way too early
Their internals were made of some proprietary type of cheese…
Yeah, they were (and seem to still be in some cases) impressively bad.
No, and they have a bunch of ones that are fine. Unfortunately when they do become a widespread issue it tends to be widely-publicized and sensationalized.
I am glad to hear that, for sure. The people don’t deserve to have a car crater itself at 80-120k, especially if the rest of the car is fine/not rusty (yet). This is all despite regular, even proactive maintenance, adding insult to failure.
My horrid list of ford auto trans casualties include:
-tracer wagon at 80k
original taurus at 150k
-ovoid taurus at 130k
-bullnose f150 c6 3 speed at 100k (werent these supposed to be tough? like, behind FE drag motor tough?) swapped in a 5 speed manual mazda box instead)
-volvo xc90 5 speed/5 cyl (not the crappy GM 4 speed unit behind the old turbo6). Yes an aisin box, but i think ford owned vo-vo at the time, so they are at least 49% responsible. This transmission, however, still mostly functions fine if you avoid slowly increasing load at 2-2.5k requiring a computer controlled downshift, will shudder, so we drive in manual mode most of the time and it’s “fine”. This also despite regular fluid changes. but it has 265k, so its probably outlived its “lifetime” designation by a lot, and has done a crapload of towing and offroading, so there’s that. Love an auto transmission that when it fails, it still mostly works.
-bricknose E4OD at 120k
-E350 work van E4OD (i think) at 145k
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While i try to buy manual transmissions for the reasons stated above, they are obviously becoming harder and harder to source, so future autos may have to have the ZF 8 speed units due to their reputed durability and responsiveness and economy? if i am wrong about this, let me know!
i currently have only one ford auto in my stable, an ’08 f350 w/ the slow 5.4l. I hope this one isnt also made of proprietary cheese!
You might be one of the first I’ve heard of the XC90 2.5T+Aisin 5-speed combo having issues with good maintenance. The T6’s awful gm 4-speed lump is notorious, and of course the Aidin 6-speed on the early V8s is known for its valve body foibles especially with delayed/neglected maintenance.
I had an XC90 2.5T AWD for a while and what I thought were transmission issues shortly after purchase turned out to be a misfire due to the prior owner’s oil change person being sloppy with their filling technique, which fouled one of the ignition coils next to it. It was slightly early for doing the plugs but a new set and a new coil and it ran so smooth. Pity yours isn’t so easily remedied.
I’ve had that same problem! Cleaned all the oil out of the spark plug well (which did help the spark plug come out o so smooth), replaced the coil boot, coil was fine, and voila! smooth engine! Unfortunately, all my sparky bois, coils and boots are newer and good. But man, it sure does have that low-load demand 2k rpm shudder that a mild misfire can have, especially if it is just a bad boot and the coil pack still thinks the grounding occurred as intended and doesn’t throw a code. I shudder to think that it is quite likely a torque converter shudder. Manual shifting isnt too horrible on this 5-speed. Not great, but not bad.
Aged turbo white block volvos and their pernicious oil consumption after 100-150k. Oddly, all of mine consumed at the same rate once they began their thirst, about 1qt/1k miles. Bonus- new oil additive package re-invigoration every 1k miles! maybe still cheaper than a new turbo (suspect turbo seals that leak but never fail) over the remaining life of the engine, as my cats dont seem to mind the extra hydrocarbons. But now that two of mine are knocking on 300k, Major Rebuild is likely to visit the barracks soon
PCV system?
Those are fun! just make sure you block out your whole weekend. You will find something lurking around in there that will alter your budget and schedule!
Yep… found that out with my old S60 R…haha
I always underestimate the strain on my back those kind of repairs induce. Vitamin I to the rescue.
I have a clapped out s60r that is going to find its way into the garage this summer. Strip for upgrade goodies to put into my ’01 v70 t5m, then loosely turn chassis into a sort of M-Sport recce car clone/tribute thing, perhaps? Most of the interior is toast anyways.
Cheap, powerful, good condition. Pick any 2.
Gen 2 Ford Expedition: Blend doors, timing chain guides, blend doors;
MK6 Golf GTi: Everything: sticky plastics, headliner falling, water-pump, cooling system made of plastic, intake flaps, oil leaks;
Landrover Freelander 2: Haldex, EGR, rust;
BMW G30: Sticky plastics, peeling button labels.
Only including ones I experienced first hand:
GM 3.8L Series II plastic coolant tubes.
2010 Mazda rust
Have gotten lucky so far on a bunch of other cars I have with known problems.
Done the coolant tubes and manifold gaskets before on my $100 lesabre. Was a pretty easy job, the hardest bit was removing the FIRMLY attached rear spark plug boots.
I avoided having to replace any manifold gaskets… so far. Have SS coolant tubes now. Felt stupid because I replaced the water pump first, thinking that was the source of the coolant leak. Oh well.
There was a recall on the ignition switch and rocker cover gaskets that my local dealer did. They reinstalled one of the front engine mounts upside down (so it collects water) and forgot to give me my engine cover back. Such clowns…
We’ve owned 4 Subarus now with no headgasket issues.
JINXED yourself…
No worries, I grew up with an Irish grandmother so I know the appropriate anti-Murphy rituals to perform after making a statement like that.
Tell us you’ve had at least 3 lemon SolTerras without telling us you have. ;P
Subaru head gaskets? My wife has an expectation of ZERO major issues in a car. On return, she’s sold her soul to owning appliance cars and maintaining them. When the head gasket went on our 2010 Forester, that car was dead to her. Well, other than we’re still driving it another 10yrs later.
Honda’s Variable Cylinder Management 2008-2012 – The broken generation of VCM that caused/causes many of the V6’s (Accord, Pilot, Odyssey etc) that it is attached to, to break down prematurely due to “the valves on the disabled cylinders being closed off while the piston continues to move up and down. This created a vacuum effect in the cylinder, allowing some oil to get sucked past the piston rings into the combustion chamber. This oil continues to collect in the combustion chamber until VCM disengages, at which point the cylinder must burn off the oil before resuming normal operation”
The VCM would cause the engine to break down long before it should have due to what it caused, and only gave back 1-2mpg fuel savings. This version of VCM disappeared due to the many problems it caused.
Also of note, many people bypass the VCM by just putting a resistor in place.
Friend of mine did that, said it was called the “VCM Muzzler.” Tricked his Odyssey into thinking it was 5* colder than it actually was, temp gauge read slightly lower but it was just below the threshold the system would activate at.
My 2013 still has this issue. I installed one of the VCM disablers a few years ago but part of the damage was already done. The bank 2 CAT (the small cat on the back of the engine) is partially plugged from buildup making the check engine light appear on and off. Not sure if it will pass emissions testing this year.
It goes on far longer than 2012…
Oh I know, but those 4 years were the worst version of the VCM.
Ford 5.4L 3V oil pressure and cam phasers and timing chains, o my!
General one here. In general, Toyotas are excellent vehicles, but I’ve spotted a weak point- the exhaust system. Toyota’s are kinda weak, and they rely on tension to stay up, which is why so many Camrys and Avalons hang really low.
Well, they are grounded to the ground, after all…
Having to take the bumper off the 2009~ Chevy Malibu to change the headlights
Older Caddy CTS is the same. When my co-worker (who’s daughter had one) told me I couldn’t believe it. Had to look it up. Idiotic design.
Lots of GMs. I had a couple of older buddies who both had Trailblazers (?), that the challenge was to get the bulbs (in the bumper) replaced for less than $125 locally. Dick won, $75.
Had to do it for my ’14 Compass too.
The New Beetle was like that too
Mid-2000s Audi 2.0T cam follower. $30 part that takes out camshafts, HP fuel pump, and distributes shrapnel throughout the top-end of the motor when it fails. And it WILL fail, being a friction part made out of cheap, soft metal. Not too difficult to replace preventatively, I started doing mine every 20-30k miles based on visible wear.
From my experience with my fleet over the years:
Honda 3.5 V6 (early 2000 to mid 2010s, not sure if the newer ones are effected) is a solid performer but has a few known issues. The valve leaking issues on the cylinder deactivated models cause headaches primarily with cats plugging up but also oil consumption issues is probably the biggest one (like class-action suit big). Timing belt tensioner failure is a fairly common issue. Also, the VTEC actuator valve is located right over the alternator, if/when it starts to leak (the valve is 2 parts, upper and lower with a gasket/strainer between) it drips on the alternator and over time can fry it.
As well as the older Honda 5 speed autos that teamed with V6 (3.5 and the Acura 3.2) but not the I4 to my knowledge.
Of course the whole Hyundai Theta engine fiasco.
The idiotic location of the power steering cooler in the old GM400 pickups ( inside the front frame rail, completely inaccessible without removing too much of the front facia/bumper)
Also, rust on the GM400 basically everywhere on the bed and sills due to dozens of places that trap water/salt in the northern states.
Not from my fleet but the whole Ford 1.3 Ecotec belt drive oil pump idiot-fest.
I somehow didn’t know about the pre-2010 3.5 issues. Our 2005 Oddy was perfect for reliability for ~17yrs. Ofc, it may be that our friends with Oddys never had the CHANCE to see the 3.5 go out because that era ate transmissions even faster than engines.
We’ve had several Hondas with the 3.5 over the years. The 2006 Odyssey was our favorite but it did have to get a new transmission at 75k so that tracks. Also the timing belt tensioner failure but we caught it in time (it starts to rattle first). But it made it to 225k and was still trucking when we traded it. The 2013 Odyssey has been more problematic. Also timing belt tensioner, the cylinder deactivation issue with resulting cat failure, VTEC oil leaks and other issues. It’s at 180k now but I doubt it will make 200k.
Gaddang, I have had issues with just about every GMT400 issue listed on this thread except for rust. All little things, but all a little annoying and time consuming to do.