As I rolled into my usual front-of-house parking spot yesterday, I saw a new car-face across the street: a fresh Subaru Crosstrek Wilderness in green, just like the one a ways below. I can’t say I’ve thought much about the Wilderness spec since it first appeared, though I did think the cladding was a bit redic when it was first revealed. But in front of me, in the metal (and copious plastic), I gotta say, it looked pretty tough. I even liked the yellow-gold accents. It had presence, and I think it looks much cooler juxtaposed against suburbia (which makes it appear extra-capable) than it does as depicted in press photos on rugged terrain (which only seems to conjure thoughts of its flimsy skid plates peeling off).
Anyway, the Crosstrek got me thinking about cars that deserve off-road/ruggedized trims, and that brings us to today’s Ask. I’m thinking about it in the mode of factory-offered models or dealer-installed packages, but if today’s Q is a good opportunity to muse about your dream off-road project car, go nuts!
Spacer
Though I’m sure it wouldn’t have been as gnarly as the predacious Panther depicted below, it’s fun to think about what Ford might have offered as an off-roadable spec for its classic body-on-frame platform. Would there have been a use-case for it to sufficiently satisfy the need for sales – maybe a police cruiser for rural areas? Probably not … but it’s fun to dream.
I put today’s Ask to Mercedes as our resident rally racer/adventurer/OppoXer, and she dropped a list:
Antti chimed in with a choice I that can totally get behind, as I’m sure a bunch of you can as well:
I would love it if the Toyota RAV4 was again available as the sort of short-wheelbase funster it was in the ’90s. Sure, it was a sort of soft-roader even in its initial guise, but those look great with big tires. Imagine if the current RAV4 was as fun!
Yessssss, via Bring a Trailer.
Your turn:
What Cars Would You Most Like To See Get (Or Wish Had Offered) An Off-Roady Trim Level?
Top graphic image: Mount Zion Offroad / YouTube
Ford Fiesta ST. (Well, at least a street legal version, since there were Fiesta rally cars but we didn’t get any of their goodies.)
An off roady Fiesta would’ve been the ideal replacement for the sedan. Or just “off-roady” enough to convince normies it’s an SUV and not a hatchback.
oh like a fiat panda, good idea.
GR86
I made one in Forza Horizon, and it kicks ass in the off-road races!
Dirt Fish runs them as well, and they dominate RWD SCCA rallycross
A small minivan like a Mazda5.
But more importantly, have the off road trims simple and focused entirely on practicality, not looks
Honda Element, Mazda5, Mazda MPV.
1980’s caravan, without the chrysler drivetrain
I rented a Mazda5 when we visited Sedona AZ some years ago. I took it on some easy Jeep trails and it did surprisingly well!
I just want a Subaru Forester with a low range transfer case like Australia used to get.
In general, I’d love to see more off-road trims on smaller vehicles. I don’t know when people decided off-roading means big vehicles, but wooded trails are better served by narrower, smaller vehicles.
Honestly, I think that a modern Golf Country would probably do pretty well.
I’d like one as a wagon, in harlequin colors
AWD, a 3″ lift, and some plastic cladding is probably the only way to get American consumers to accept a Golf Wagon these days.
I looked pretty hard at the golf wagons 10 years back. And I looked really hard when they were offering the longer warranties on them. I even considered an Alltrack that was for sale near me because 1) the discounts closed the gap pretty significantly over the base models and 2) it was a wonderful color of green.
I of course wanted one in a stick, but the same car in a similar price range today would be perfect for my wife’s next car. With that extended warranty, of course.
Baja Bug or last edition of the Regal GS
I’d be pretty hyped if they’d put a low-range transfercase in the Maverick Tremor.
SuperfastMatt’s off-road Dodge Viper comes to mind. And Grindhard Plumbing is currently building a Volkswagen TDI V10 powered Ferrari F355 rally car.
NONE. Vehicles should either be properly designed for use off-road, or properly designed for use ON a road. Trying to do both usually means the thing is bad at both (unless vast sums of money are thrown at it ala Range Rovers, etc).
This is why the trails and off road parks are full of side by sides and the parking lots there are filled with $90K trucks and flatbeds.
Bingo! Waay more fun offroad for waaay less money.
I thought the side by side, flatbed flat bed trailer and truck to tow was way more expensive than just driving your jeep there off roading it and driving it home, like way more expensive.
Not if you break your Jeep in the process. And a Jeep properly prepared for off-roading is not much fun to drive on the road – and gets really expensive, really fast.
And you don’t need a $90K truck to tow a SxS around.
agree to disagree, my jeep is fun off road, not maybe as fun as a side by side but for what I do, a side by side and a truck and a trailer and room to store all of them is more expensive for me than just a jeep that can fit in my garage.
Different strokes for different folks. My friends who offroad absolutely send it and break stuff all the time (I guess that is fun?), so they don’t drive their rigs to the trails. If you want that level of crazy, a SxS is a whole lot cheaper and better than a Jeep to start with. Trailers are cheap, and if you have a truck anyway, it’s really a much better solution most of the time.
But certainly it’s in the back of my mind every time I have my Rover back in the Maine woods at our lodge that it’s going to SUCK if I break it out there and have to get it 3hrs home. And those guys like to take their Jeeps from the east coast to CO, UT, and CA every year. Good luck driving those things that far.
ive thought about “off road” trucks vs SxS and the benifits of 4wheelers and SxS are huge. if you breakdown it it’s easier to recover and you don’t have to worry about how you will get home or how you will get to work on monday. also you get to drive faster so instead of a slow crawl its like a mini rally. Also you don’t have to comprimise your daily driver truck’s comfort by installing off road modifications. different strokes for different folks.
Those are true and good points but not cheaper.
if you live in Alabama or Mississippi or Louisiana some of the paved roads might as well be “off road”. Also some people just want to go camping in their commuter car without worrying if they are going to get stuck or having to purchase a beater jeep or pickup just for those 2 camping trips a year they might take.
So that’s 5 out of 100 buyers of these things. Maybe? Most who are in that situation are just going to buy a proper truck. No redneck living down a dirt track in the woods is going to buy a jacked up Subaru. But lesbians whose idea of “off road” is a gravel parking lot at the hiking trails love the things.
I would pay good money for a Mercedes S123 300TD wagon plopped onto a W460 Geländewagen chassis.
Or you could just get an old 5-door G300TD and have an even more practical body. If you must have silly amounts of power, drop the engine of your choice under the hood. But they are really quite fast enough with 125hp.
Honestly not a specific car, or even really off road only, but I want to see height adjustable air suspension as an option for a lot more cars.
When you need the extra ground clearance you hit a button and get a couple extra inches.
When you need a lower deck height you lower it a couple inches.
At highway speeds it automatically lowers to make the car more aerodynamic and lowers the CG.
And when hauling a shifting load (livestock) the rear air suspension can help compensate for the change in tongue weight.
Air suspension is one of the few things that can let a vehicle be pretty good in both environments – as I have said on here before, my P38a Range Rover could do 90% of what a Jeep could do and 90% of what an S-Class could do. But TANSTAAFL always applies – it ain’t cheap, up front or down the road to fix it WHEN it breaks. And exponentially less cheap if you get much in the way of fancy electronics involved.
But even just having it in the rear ala my MB E350 wagon is absolutely brilliant – I have put a whole bathroom worth of tile in that thing and it just shrugs it off. Just know that there is a $1000 bill coming (if you DIY) someday WHEN the airbags wear out. And there are a bunch more bits that can go wrong too. And Dog help you if it’s the fancier version with electronic air struts and not just airbags and separate conventional shocks. And air suspension does not tolerate neglect – as soon as there are signs of a leak, you need to fix it lest those even MORE expensive bits overwork themselves and fail.
Definitely needs replacement sooner and is more prone to failure than standard shocks and suspension, however the capabilities in the meanwhile are awesome. So for me I think it’s worth it. For 99% of people who somewhat regularly drive down roads with deep snow and need that extra bit of ground clearance I think it makes way more sense than the same size lift kit.
Easier and a whole lot cheaper to just stay home until the roads are plowed.
And if noone plows those roads, like your driveway for example?
Then get your lazy ass out there and snowblow or shovel. Sheesh.
Many a cold dark morning I was out snowblowing my not at all small driveway in Maine so I could go to work. Though reality is that with proper winter tires, a normal car will go through 6+ inches of unplowed snow just fine, so usually I would just attack the plow berm at the end of the driveway, then do the rest when I got home. A Volvo with the auto-locking diff would go through snow deep enough to end up with it on the hood if the snow was relatively dry. Winter tires are the best cheapest option of all for winter mobility. If you are going to own the car long enough to need a second set of tires, they are basically free plus the cost of a cheap set of used wheels.
i 100 percent agree with you! but not only is a proper air suspension setup thousands of dollars the R&D to do it properly would be baked into the cost of all of the coil springed cars and that could make it noncompetitive on price. that’s why you typically only see it on the luxury cars because they have a lot more margin to play with.
While it does cost more, I still think it makes a lot more sense to make it standard on some vehicles than other stupid solutions to try to reduce aerodynamic drag like electronic door handles.
I was tempted to say the same thing I always say–Ferrari Mondial, of course!–but just out of curiosity I googled it and damned if somebody didn’t already sorta do it. Adrian will surely disagree, but I think the slightly chunky tires, roof rack, and rally lights really serve it well, especially absent the cladding of a Subaru (or Sterrato) or a lift kit.
The Mondial needs all the help it can get, and you’re right, this is surprisingly good.
I think the original Porsche Dakar looked interesting. The newer ones, not so much.
My “problem” is that I have too much mechanical empathy (and frugality) to really flog anything in this realm.
Agreed. I admire the opportunities Mercedes gets (and her willingness) to destroy cars, but I can’t bring myself to travel more than an hour’s tow from my mechanic even at regular speeds, much less tempt fate with a “full send.”
That said, she does seem to be a little easier on stuff without her name on the title.
How about a new Charger with about a 3 inch lift, some knobby tires, and a Hellcat?
Better Idea: Height Adjustable air suspension.
1st gen Q7 looks great when it cosplays as an overlander. Should’ve been a factory option.
Let’s make a rally-y Golf R. Or Audi A3/TT. Minivans also could stand to get adventurous. How about a Purosangue just to make Ferrari admit it’s at least a Crossover? I wouldn’t even mind safari-ing/rallyizing my FR-S, or any small sports car.
I’d say something silly like “massive Unicorn Head” but Monster Jam already did that. And called it Sparkle Smash.
As someone not into the whole safari thing (I’m of the Ride Pontiac Ride! persuasion that likes urban split level roads and neon reflecting in puddles), I’d want to go the other way – a Chevy Trax or Buick Envista lowered and de-grilled/de-cladded a tiny bit would totally float my boat.
I’ve often looked at the Envista and thought, “How can I make this back into a car?”
I was going to say the same thing, and the first thing that came to mind is the WRX. Get rid of the fuggin fender cladding. AND THEN make a Wilderness edition WRX for the people who want it to look off-roady but give it a lift and some skid plates.
I should be in charge of Subaru product planning.
Still disappointed we never got an Eddie Bauer Model A.
Something along these lines?
https://barnfinds.com/winter-mail-carrier-1931-fordmodel-a-cabriolet/
AWD CorvetteCross.
Miata 4×4.
Heck, there are lift kits available for the NA/NB Miata, and people have put serious lift kits with chunky tires on them. Sure they’re not going to be incredibly capable, but being simple and lightweight, they seem to do better offroad than you would think just by nature of being small, light and agile.
I’d rock a Mustang Raptor more than I’d care to admit.
Also, the absence of a GM 1500 Raptor fighter is still one of those head scratchers
Like a Mad Max thing!
Exactly!!
As an S197 owner, I approve this message.
An S197, with GT500 power (or just a breathed-on 5.0 Coyote), a 3″ lift, Fox shocks, and 31″ BFGs would have sold alongside the Raptor like hotcakes. A PreRunner Mustang, if you will.
The S197 still had a solid axle, lifting these should be remarkably easy.
A push bar, a couple of stickers and off-road lightbars would have completed the look.
Came here to say Mustang Raptor as well!
Some automakers should have run with the Rally Fighter concept. Totally a missed opportunity.
For the Mustang, let’s call it the Thomas Crown Affair (TCA) trim. Convertible only, of course.
https://www.motortrend.com/features/1512-recreation-of-the-thomas-crown-affair-movie-mustang
Yes!
I’ll never understand why GM didn’t throw the LT4 in a Silverado as soon as the Raptor was announced.
Apparently, there’s several mules that ran around a few years ago but they didn’t move forward. I wonder if they wanted to brand it a Chevy but GMC didn’t want there to be a Silverado that was more expensive than a Sierra.
Man, fricking EVERTHING so that I could drive around on the poorly-maintained and potholed streets of my city and not worry about popping a tire, bending a rim, or bending a control arm. WRC trims for all the cars, and trucks and SUVs should have the option for the meaty sidewalls on EVERY trim level. None of those silly mandatory 20″+ rims.
People get pissy about jeeps etc way more than track cars as daily drivers but I don’t worry about road hazards in a jeep.
I don’t find either a Jeep or a track car appealing as a daily driver (because I’m soft and like comfort), but with our garbage infrastructure, a Jeep or a Bronco is a lot more practical. Now if there was a good Safari suspension package for my Panamera, I’d be really tempted.
Yup. I love it when people are tailgating me – tailgaters always tend to follow your tracks. I just gradually aim for the biggest pothole / road damage and watch them either freak out and attempt a last minute dodge, or bounce their head into the roof.
If the off road trim is just plastic black wheel arches and a mild lift and not actual useful stuff like tow points, real skids, AT/MT tires, and low range, then none thanks.
As for those actual add-ons. New cars like the Suburban/Tahoe Grand Wagoneer, and probably others that are not popping to mind.
I’m not sure a Grand Wagoneer Rubicon would sell that well, but it would sure be a great halo car to get people interested in the rest of the lineup.
Didn’t EVEN have to think about this: Volvo 240 wagon
An actual factor Ford rally car, like the Focus RS with gravel rally suspension and tires
Focus RAPTOR!