I’m sure you don’t need me to tell you that electric cars are absolute torque monsters, and even humble sedans offered as practical dailies can be capable of smooshing you into the seatback as forcefully as ostensibly hot-performing fuel-burning machines.
Consider the Tesla Model 3, which in RWD trim will (according to Tesla) sprint to 60mph in 4.6 seconds, enough to smoke many V8-powered muscle machines. If you opt for the Performance model, that figure drops to just 2.9 seconds – a match for the base-model Corvette Stingray, which will drain an additional $21,000 from your bank account versus the seemingly humble Tesla sedan.
… Which can only make one wonder what the future holds for sports cars, which for the purposes of this Autopian Asks we can expand to include musclecars and super/hypercars. Long gone are the days when a certain level of performance was only attainable by purchasing a sporting machine. Whether you were looking for prodigious power, lithe handling, or – the eternal dream – both, there was no way to truly scratch that itch with anything other than a sports car.
No more. One needn’t look far to see sports-oriented electric sedans and SUVs (and even ICE and hybrid models) that belie their heft and height with genuinely impressive performance numbers, whether the Gs are aligned with your buttcrack or of the lateral variety. How then will sports cars sports car?
It may be that sports cars merely become an aesthetic. If it looks like a sports car, then it’s a sportscar, never mind how quick or fast or nimble it is. Despite what the numbers might say, surely squirting around with instant electric torque in a low-slung two-seater will feel more fun and sporty than achieving the same performance numbers in a staid sedan, and that may well be sports car enough.
Or, will tomorrow’s electric sports cars be expected to do more than everyday machines can? And might they do more by offering less – as in less range. Setting aside whether or not Tesla actually ever makes the thing, does the new Roadster really need 600+ miles of range? That’s a lot of battery weight to lug around, no matter what advances we see in energy density in the next couple of years. How much better would it be with 200 miles of range? Will sports car buyers be satisfied with less range, as sports cars aren’t big milers for most? Will electric sports cars measure their athleticism by posting road-holding abilities of the drive-it-upside-down variety, with the Automan-like handling such high grip allows? We’ll see.
Until the future arrives, you tell us: What Will Constitute A ‘Sportscar’ In An All-Electric Future?
Top graphic image: 1969 GM Astro III Concept via GM
In addition to all the good points already made, I’d add – some new sort of transmission that’s engaging in the way ICE manuals are.
I don’t really know what it will be, but maybe eventually EV sportscars will have different circuits that allow different power mapping, which the driver will need to select on the go to maximize performance, keep the temps in a safe zone, etc.
You can have a manual two-speed without a physical transmission with series-parallel shifting.
Series for low gear where voltage is split and current is maximized giving the highest possible torque but causing peak power to be reached at a low RPM, parallel for high gear where current is split and voltage is maximized allowing peak power to be reached at a high RPM.
There are many different ways to do this, but among the earliest methods pioneered by hobbyists as far back as the 1970s was to use two series-wound DC motors mated on a common shaft or with a belt or chain drive, and use contactors to shift them between series and parallel connection. More recently, in the 2000s, John Wayland’s electric Datsun 1200 street legal drag car, “White Zombie”, used this technique to rip off 10s in the 1/4 mile.
A more modern variation of this includes shifting a single AC motor between delta and wye, although the small subset of modern EVs using his technique do that automatically, taking the fun out of it. There’s no reason one couldn’t have a physical gear shift for this.
For PMDC motors like on my trike, I could have multiple controller settings of various field weakening states enabled, if I wanted to, trading torque for RPM. I could set up a paddle shift system for this, by modifying trigger shifters for my bicycle drivetrain and putting a butterfly style steering wheel in this thing, allowing me to shift my bicycle drivetrain’s gears and PMDC motor’s field strength in tandem with each other at the same time. It would be more trouble than it was worth, IMO.
My Triumph GT6 conversion retains its physical manual transmission, because my 1970s Prestolite MTC4001 series DC motor can make maybe 120 horsepower peak for perhaps 30 seconds a a time, but maybe 40 horsepower continuous, at least at the voltage I’m running it at. I need a transmission or hard accelerations will destroy it. The motor is inefficient and makes a lot of heat, and the Helwig brushes could get vaporized quickly at the 192V my Soliton 1 controller allows to it, if it doesn’t short the motor out and arc across the case or explode in spectacular fashion embedding pieces of commutator brushes hundreds of feet away in other objects after leaving holes through the bonnet. Whenever I upgrade the motor/controller to something that makes 300 horsepower or more, the transmission is getting deleted for weight savings and reliability. I’d love to have a sub-1,800 lb RWD EV sports car with that kind of power.
Isn’t that what the Taycan has?
Whoa, your conversions sound super cool! I’m on a hunt for “what EV on the planet — built or bought — is the most fun to drive on a back road.” If you don’t mind my asking, what area are you located in? And is there any chance I could rent one of your custom EVs to drive around?
St. Louis, MO
My custom EVs, while currently operational, are not at all finished. The trike is set up to fit only me, but you MIGHT be able to fit in it.
Curious if Formula E can teach us anything about this – I know the drivers have to optimize for range and speed, but I don’t know if it’s the fun kind of optimization.
I know that playing with power/regen settings can make for a very engaging drive. Dial it up in the corners and you’re driving a torquey beast that feels like it’s always in the right gear. Dial it down for cruising and everything is smooth.
Wouldn’t the better comparison be different mappings of drive modes? There’s no reason for an OEM to let you change gear ratios when it’s cheaper and easier to just vary the speed and power output of the motor
Yes EVs great drag racers but deadrag ra erth traps on any high speed turn so no EV cans be a sports car. Just a
We must toast the passing of the bugs in the teeth, added lightness, magnificently omitted NVH, drafty and leaky erector set soft top with smoke filled electrical system days of glorious sports cars.
Surely some manufacturer could gin up an affordable moderately priced lightweight minimalist low power fun sports car to sell to the dozens of consumers will to purchase one.
Well you would need to bring back bugs first. But I heartily endorse this idea.
Maybe I’m not the person to answer this, but I’m guessing that between new battery chemistries, suspension designs, and passenger configurations (i.e., 2-seaters vs. more than that) that there’s still room for an EV “sports car” that still handles well in the corner and is relatively lighter than the competition. The challenge is less “making this vehicle” (not that that’s not a challenge in and of itself) than “selling this vehicle profitably.”
I test drove an E-Transit, and while it was far from sporty, I was mildly disappointed to find out (both during the drive by feel and later from looking it up) that it only had about 250 horses–barely 35 more than my ’97 Econoline. Which was still plenty for it to move, but I imagine they also saved lots of development time by not giving it more than it needed. I would assume that vastly simplifies battery cooling.
Perhaps “slow car fast” might still be able to exist for EVs, just at a new, faster definition of “slow” and an even faster definition of “fast”.
I think it has to start with relatively high performance compared to whatever else is available on the market, and for me, an available convertible top of some sort.
Beyond that, I think all bets are off.
You don’t need to make the best performing car to be a sports car, otherwise there would be only one each year. You don’t even need a convertible top.
Even today, some cars are called sports cars for different reasons. Some for acceleration, some for handling, some for competence on the race track, and some for their suitability for grand touring.
I have always subscribed to their being a distinction between a performance car and a sports car, though many people seem to equate the two. The latter could be a former, but isn’t necessarily and the former isn’t necessarily the latter (I’d even say that it’s usually not). I think it would necessarily have to be a return to basics and lightweight, hopefully not on stilts, really embracing the old sports car ideal as a machine for connection and driving experience over performance. Bigger question is if there will be a market for them beyond some boutique manufacturers.
Caterham have some fun things in development, I have driven some of the ideas, the latest (last weekish) Ev7 prototype seems good, 150 mile real life range and ten minutes charging seems fine. No one in there right mind would drive one further, they are pretty full on toys, but they do “sports car” very well.
My stock answer to this question, actually my answers to questions merely adjacent to what would an electric sports car be, since nobody ever actually asks that, has been an electric seven. Or an Europa. Actually I’m getting old so an electric type 75 Elite would be wonderful.
I’d even settle for an EV CR-X.
Astro III looks like they ripped the nose off of a XB-70.
An all-EV future can kiss my back bumper. Nuff said.
Fairly light weight and with great feedback.
Physics is still a thing, and over a certain weight I think a sports car stops being a sports car.
For me that’s under 4000lbs. Also I think a sports car needs less than 4 full size doors, half doors are fine though, and no more than 5 seats.
Great feedback is harder to define but I believe that it is necessary for a sports car.
Firstly – Just because Teslas are overpowered range-monsters (except not because lying-Elon mileage programming) doesn’t mean that’s the correct answer for future mainstream production EVs. Manufacturers who create EVs using smaller, lighter battery packs and smaller, less powerful motors (which mean smaller brakes, smaller wheels, lighter suspension components, etc etc) will still be able to provide great useful performance and range by simply making them lighter.
Just like every MX-5 ever built does not have unlimited HP and hyper-space 0-60 times – true sports cars will just need to be smaller and lighter to provide endless (s)miles of enjoyment.
Teslas are the perfect example of what a sports car is not. Something unlikely to change while it continues to be headed by a fascist who wants, above all else, to eliminate people driving. Teslas are the poster cars for replacing entertainment with spreadsheets that attempt to replicate entertainment through analysis. Performance numbers are pointless unless you are a competitive driver on a track. A Triumph Spitfire is a sports car; a Model S Plaid is not.
A sports car engages the driver with the sensation of driving, with the ability to feel and understand how the car reacts to inputs and the environment. This is Everything Tesla and most modern cars are working to eliminate. The crazy performance figures cars can now achieve are only possible with massive help from computers. Computers that pump in a thin veneer of driving feel in the same way they pump in a poor replication of driving noise through the speakers. It is a simulacrum of driving rather than the thing itself. By definition, sports cars don’t exist in that world.
EVs can be sports cars; it isn’t a question of fuel source. It is an issue of product development and marketing. Spreadsheet numbers sell, sports cars don’t.
I love my 1997 Miata. Miata defines “sports car” (so does a Spit). I would kill a thousand zombies for the chance to buy a new version of the Spit that was physically identical, only electric.
KENNER Rip cord flywheel SSP LAKER SPECIAL RACER
1969 GM Astro III Concept
Which came first?
If we ever get to a hydrogen economy (especially if it’s the fuel for heavy trucks), it’ll be hydrogen fuelled ICE. In a way it could be quite good for sports cars as a genre; they’ll never be as fast as the electric SUV parked next to it, so hopefully the manufacturers won’t try, and will focus on the experience instead.
I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material I understand to be embraced within that shorthand description [“hard-core sports car”], and perhaps I could never succeed in intelligibly doing so. But I know it when I see it.
Weight.
Torque and power are largely irrelevant with EVs, even an economy car can out accelerate an ICE sports car. It will all come down to weight and handling. Low rolling resistance tires with light weight structures won’t hold up to cornering forces like a high performance tire of days past, and the added weight of batteries will pretty much kill any traditional small, light weight sports cars. Unfortunately, it likely means the death of the MX-5 and similar cars.
An electrified Lotus Elan S4 pretty much would do it.
See for a 2018 version:
https://bringatrailer.com/2018/12/06/add-batteries-electrify-1972-lotus-elan-s4-ev-conversion/
What a thing of beauty. It’s simple, serviceable, and light. The battery technology has gotten better since, and range could increase 50% or more with modern batteries in it. Turn it into a coupe with a custom aero top and range could increase another 30%+ from there, getting it to 200+ miles. And it probably weighs close to stock.
As far as I’m concerned, what makes a sports car a sports car is some sort of visceral experience. Blasting down a 2-track path in a CJ with the windshield folded is what puts the “sports” in SUV. Likewise blasting down an English lane in a Bugeye Sprite.
In fact, maybe a modern EV Sprite is the goal. You don’t need much power to have fun, so the electric motor could be pretty darn tiny and therefore the battery as well.
Note to self: Build a 5/8 scale Slate EV and replace the body with a cheeky roadster.
An electric mk 2 sprite would be perfect.
An EV can be called a Sports Car when it can drive like a 1971 911.
If sports cars are to actually exist again as light, nimble, go-fast machines in EV form, then they will by necessity have the lowest possible features, smallest possible size, least possible mass, and lowest possible drag coefficient, in the name of load reduction. Go as fast as possible with the horsepower present, all in the name of reducing the size of the battery needed for a desired amount of range, keeping mass down.
I like to imagine a modernized Lotus 11. Same dimensions, 1/3 the aero drag of the original, and even with a 30-35 kWh battery, still ending up under 2,000 lbs, and approaching 300 miles range at 70 mph. Except you could shove a 1,000 bhp drive system into this beast driving the rear wheels, and have something very hoonable and dangerous that could drain the pack on a track in mere minutes. Keep the simplicity of a Lotus 11 and keep it mostly analogue and serviceable with basic tools, and you’ll have to beat enthusiasts away as they swarm after it like a horde of shambling zombies.
Just the way it should be.
First of all, big +1 for that Automan reference because Cursor was awesome.
The lack of affordable EV sportscars is the only reason I’m not in an EV yet but here’s what I’d consider.
Honestly, until they can produce an EV that’s fun to drive, has at least 250miles of range, and costs no more than my BRZ I’ll just keep waiting.
This Automan is news to me! Wow, Tron was more influential than I gave it credit for being.
It was AWESOME and you can watch it on the Internet Archive
https://archive.org/details/automan-tv-series-vhs-rip
Rear drive.
Handling.
Keeping the weight down.
Braking.
A removable roof.
Simplicity.
Basically make a Miata with an electric powertrain and a roller skate battery layout. Don’t chase the numbers, chase feel.
This. As Lotus once espoused: “Simplify, add lightness.”
It’s not that the current crop of electrics can’t check the boxes and do sportscar-ish things. But they aren’t doing it quite the same as, well, a textbook sports car. Instead, they’re just checking the boxes but not delivering the same experience, at least not other than muscle-car straight line acceleration. But muscle cars are just one aspect of enthusiats’ driving machines; there’s more to it than just torque and acceleration.
Exactly this. As Toecutter is fond of noting, less drag means less battery means less weight, less money and quicker charging. With a T-shaped pack like in the Volt you could have a structural “transmission tunnel” down the middle of the chassis for stiffness and keep the seats barely off the pavement like they’re supposed to be.
Maserati is also doing the T-shaped battery pack.
And Lucid Air is quite low despite having a skateboard battery pack.
So despite what others are thinking/doing – it’s entirely possible to have a low sleek performance EV.
If you think about it, ICE setup is actually I shaped. Engine in the front, fuel tank in the rear, tunnel down the middle. The EV sports car doesn’t have to be built on the skate board does it?
Panache
L’Air de Panache, to be precise.
https://www.vogue.com/article/lair-de-panache-what-wes-andersons-fragrance-smells-like
In a world where pretty much any electric car will be able to beat an ICE car in performance, it’s all going to come down to how the car feels, and that means panache- it’ll be the only thing that makes the difference
Momentum, inertia, and mass, those things won’t change in an electric feature. Sports cars almost by definition should not seat a lot of people, so they don’t need to be three rows of seats. Small and nimble will always be important. So I see a smaller lighter, faster, cornering quicker, breaking faster, kind of little EV that will be a sports car.
Breaking faster?
I see the Italians and Brits have entered the chat…
(Yes, I know it’s autocorrect rearing its ugly head, but it opens the door to classic dank car memes… 😛 )
it is sports cars so both breaking and braking would be correct.
The Renault 5 Turbo 3E is pretty close