As much as we hate to admit it, our lives are ruled by edge cases. Specific events or conditions that are outside the norm, which can push a system to its limits if not properly addressed. It’s why range anxiety is a primary reason people don’t buy electric vehicles, even though the average US driver’s daily commute is only 39 miles. It’s why people will daily-drive pickup trucks all year for the handful of times they buy mulch at Home Depot or tow their boat. Most people have no “need” for a vehicle with more than 200 horsepower, but sometimes you need to lay a couple lines down on the pavement in the name of America. The truth is, even if these vehicles have some compromises, it’s better than being caught with your pants down in a vehicle that can’t perform. Most people like having the ability to go on a road-trip, or transport a bunch of gravel, or accelerate at irresponsible speeds, even if all of these activities are an edge case compared to their vehicle’s daily use.
I figured this out while talking with my partner about replacing my Continental. My plan was to pick up a decent Lincoln Town Car for about $7k. It’s a roomy boat of a sedan that will float comfortably over our road’s numerous potholes. The final form of the venerable Panther platform, perfectly adapted to its environment like the ancient crocodile, evolution having honed it to perfection over the millennia. With all the kinks worked out over trillions of miles in taxis and police cruisers, these cars basically last forever with minimal maintenance. I enjoy wrenching as long as it’s not on dumb stuff like the issues I’ve been having with the Continental. With a second kid potentially coming this year, my limited wrenching time will be trending closer to zero for a while. I wanted something roomy, comfortable, free from BS that will just work every day. I figured the Town Car would have plenty of room for two car seats and all the accoutrements needed for transporting young children.
But I was missing an important edge case. Every couple of months we need to drive an additional person, usually my mother-in-law, somewhere. It can be a quick trip, like to a mall or kid’s play gym, or longer like visiting family several hours away. Squeezing between two car seats over a long distance isn’t going to cut it. Also as the kids get older (my son is currently 3), we may need to transport their friends somewhere with them or carpool. We need something with a third row. I tried bringing up the Town Car’s wonderful front bench seat that can sit three across, fully knowing the ridiculousness of that suggestion. My Town Car idea is dead and now I need a much more versatile vehicle for future Steve’s new set of edge cases.
So I am coming to our brilliant and handsome Autopian commentariat for advice. During this search I test drove a bunch of cars and got my mind blown by a type of vehicle I’ve somehow overlooked over the past couple decades of driving. Most of these I’ve done a bunch of research on, but I value real world advice. Please let me know what you think and any choices I missed. It is a privilege to write for this site and have access to this brilliant hive mind of a community, and I intend to fully take advantage of that here.
Here are the criteria:
- Under $20k, closer to $10k the better.
- A third row of seats. They don’t have to be huge, my MIL is about 5 foot tall, so I don’t need Shaq levels of legroom.
- 3. Dead nuts reliable. I have no problem doing regular maintenance but I’d rather spend my garage time fixing up my Bonneville or Ranger. I don’t want to end up stranded or forced to deal with a bunch of BS repairs. I’d like to keep this vehicle for a while so longevity is key.
- Comfortable. I just turned 40. I’m an old man now. My days of driving tin cans on dodgy sport springs rattling my teeth loose are behind me. Our roads are crappy and straight, so comfy cruisers are desired.
- Gas mileage is only semi-important. Vehicles with third rows are necessarily big so I’m not hoping for a miracle. I work from home most of the time, but drive the kids 5 miles to day care every day. I do about 1200 miles a month. Most long trips are for work and I get reimbursed for gas
The Sensible Choice: A 4th Gen Honda Odyssey
I’m not above driving a minivan. Of all the vans available, the 4th gen Odyssey seems to be the sweet spot. We have a 2018 Accord that’s been excellent so we are Honda fans. Some of the new 5th gens are dipping under $20k, but I’ve read multiple comments from serial Odyssey owners that they preferred their old 4th gen over the latest and greatest. I think the Chrysler vans look better but are mechanically temperamental from what I’ve seen. These Hondas seem to last forever (well past 200k miles) but aren’t without issues. They have the excellent 3.5L J35Z8 V6, but the transmission needs its fluid changed every 30k miles to go the distance. They also have an Eco mode that deactivates some of the cylinders that can foul the plugs, or if unlucky, roach the piston rings. This is why most owners recommend a “muzzle” which disables Eco mode. I can find plenty of Odysseys for sale in the mid teens price-wise with 80-120k miles, which are just being broken in.
I test drove one and it is definitely functional. It is a giant box so it has the most room in all the rows and in the cargo area. It drives decently, no real complaints there. The 250 horsepower V6 gets out of its own way and sounds better than a minivan has any right to be. The dash setup with the two screens is odd but I can get used to it. I didn’t love it but I didn’t hate it. It’s “an car” as they say. For fuel economy it’s about 22 MPG combined, maybe slightly better than the Continental but not much.
The Non-Mini Van: Ford Flex
People either love or hate the Flex, I happen to love it. It’s a distinctive design that yields a lot of practical space inside. Believe it or not, its wheelbase and exterior dimensions are all within about an inch of the Odyssey. The example I sampled was high mileage and pretty ratty, but it drove surprisingly well. Its road manners felt much better than the Odyssey for some reason. You can get a regular V6 with 287 horsepower or a turbocharged six with 365 horses. The naturally aspirated six I drove had plenty of power, the Ecoboost model is an unlikely sleeper.
The instrument cluster with dual screens surrounding an analog gauge was attractive and practical. The dash had a lot of “fake” touch sensitive buttons, which isn’t idea,l but they seemed to work well enough. One drawback is the third row seat access. You need to fully fold the second row seat-back down and flip the whole seat forward to get into the back; impossible with a car seat. Luckily, second row captains chairs are an option, which would make clambering into the third row easier.
Researching Flexes (Flexors, Flexii?) online, owners seem to love them. These vehicles have such a following that multiple people claim to have two Flexes in their stable. I’ve actually seen this in person: a house I drive by every day has two of these big wagons in their driveway. They seem to be fairly reliable except for one fatal flaw with the Ford V6: a timing chain driven water pump in the middle of the engine. It can grenade itself at any time and you are faced with a surprise timing chain job that can cost about $3-4k, or a weekend of wrenching time. It was bad enough that there was a class action lawsuit against Ford. It seems to happen randomly. There are people with 250k miles on their engines on the original water pump, and ones that went out under 100k miles. This isn’t a deal breaker but it gives me a little pause. For MPG it’s roughly the same as my Continental. Thankfully Flexes grow on trees in the Detroit area so I have plenty of examples to choose from.
The Paradigm Shift: Lexus GX 460
I was not prepared for this test drive. I’ve never noticed these things as luxury trucks aren’t really my forte. I’d never heard the word Prado, which is the storied nameplate the rest of the world knows this truck as. A couple GX’s pop up in my Autotrader search and I spotted a top of the line 2014 model in the dealer lot after test driving the Flex. I asked for the keys to take it for a spin with no expectations. It basically blew me away.
I know it sounds dumb that a luxury SUV rightly derided as ancient by the automotive press would leave me floored, but it did. This GX had almost 180,000 miles on the odometer, but looked and drove like it had 60,000. It had some of the best seats, and more importantly, the most comfortable ride I’ve ever experienced. Sure the technology was a little outdated when it came out, but I prefer buttons over touchscreens and the interior felt like it was assembled with care and intention. At speed it was quiet, almost serene. The Mark Levinson speaker system sounded rich and detailed. The balloon-like tires and body-on-frame construction dispatched potholes with aplomb. I feel like a broken record complaining about the shitty Detroit roads and here I was piloting a vehicle that basically turned them to glass. No more scanning ahead for craters, cringing every time some frost heave threatens to bend a wheel or bust a control arm out its socket like a fat Steven Seagal. I felt totally at ease, melting into the seat like a pat of butter in a baked potato. I could’ve kept driving all day without complaint.
Am I stupid? Have I been a truck person this whole time? Have I lived my life the past 20+ years under the false assumption that cars were the superior vehicular form for basic A to B transportation in almost all situations? Maybe. I learned to drive in a forest green GMT400 Suburban. I piloted that family truck for the first few years of my driving life, but I was too green to know anything and Milwaukee’s roads aren’t too bad. After that I got a VW Golf with Fast and Furious dreams. Two decades later I got truck-pilled by this Lexus.
After putting my brain back in my skull I started looking at this vehicle objectively. The third row seats aren’t as big as the Odyssey, but they would work well for my needs. Cargo space with both third row seats up shrinks by a lot, but that is an edge case for an edge case. With only one third row seat, up cargo is fine. The rear hatch opens to the side like a giant door, which is actually quite nice. You don’t have to wait around for the electric motor to slowly raise the hatch, or risk bumping your head. The glass pops up if you need to throw something in there quick.
The V8 is thirsty but only a couple MPG less than the Lincoln. The cheaper insurance basically offsets the increased gas costs. For a family with two kids that occasionally has to transport a fifth person, the GS would work great.
Most importantly, if you believe what everyone says, this is the most reliable modern vehicle ever made. The reliability ratings are literally pegged at 100%, as high as they can go. Like the Town Car, the platform was produced for over a decade and wasn’t redesigned needlessly over and over. It’s proven itself in the harshest conditions and has been perfected over time. The GX is built in Toyota’s flagship plant in Tahara, Japan where automotive quality was invented. Consensus is you’ll only need to open the hood to change your oil and refill your wiper fluid. Where many auto journalists saw a reluctance to change; Toyota saw it as sticking with what works, letting other automakers trip over themselves chasing half-baked technology that fails prematurely. Savagegeese had an excellent review where they called it a truck that’s free of flashy bullshit that you can pass on to your grand-kids. I haven’t been able to stop thinking about these since that drive.
The Disappointment: Chevy Tahoe
Fresh off my Lexus high I wanted to check out some other trucks. I especially wanted to get back to my Chevy roots and test a Tahoe or Yukon. The one I drove had 160k hard miles on it. It’s not fair to compare one vehicle to another, but this one was quite beat. Looking past that, the packaging and layout seemed great. Compared to the Lexus, the seats weren’t as comfortable and the interior materials are obviously not as nice, but the dash was attractively laid out and had all the gizmos. The third row seat/cargo space situation was actually pretty similar to the GX; you buy a Suburban if you need more space. I think the 5-10 year old Tahoe/Yukon trucks I was looking at are some of the better looking SUVs out there. It could be the perfect family vehicle. So what’s the problem?
Everywhere I look people are saying these are maintenance nightmares with owners needing to replace engines and transmissions. According to Dashboard-Light.com quality took a dive after 2014. The trucks in my price range have over 100k miles, and a surprising number of ads say things like “200k on body, 80k on engine” or “transmission just replaced”. I saw one review by a Chevy tech who said they were replacing multiple transmissions a week. It is a bummer because I’d seriously consider one of these, but every resource says to stay away. Not worth risking it.
The Wildcard: Dodge Durango
The Durango is an attractive SUV. Like the Charger and Challenger, subtle updates over the years kept a handsome shape looking fresh over a long lifecycle. I drove one at the SRT experience at Michigan International Speedway over a decade ago and was blown away that it beat the Chargers and Challengers in a tight autocross course. Reading that the V6 Pentastar engines had some issues I found a 2017 Durango Citadel with the 5.7L Hemi and 107k miles on the clock to test drive. Surprisingly, it was in mint condition, even the engine bay looked almost new. The interior materials aren’t anything to write home about, but it looks nice and was fairly well laid out. The Durango’s cabin is a nice place to spend time. The sound quality from the stereo and the Hemi’s exhaust note were a highlight.
For practicality, the third row had the most room besides the Odyssey; and there was still good cargo space with the seats up. It has the worst MPG out of the four in this blog, and being the sporty choice, it’s tougher to keep your foot out of the gas. Reliability seems tentatively positive for the 5.7L. People report premature water pump issues and some electrical gremlins with the stereo. But compared to the Flex, the water pump on the Hemi is in a normal location and easy to service. I have a co-worker who has two Durangos and loves them. They haven’t crested the 100k mark but he hasn’t had any issues. I’d have no problem driving this truck every day.
Final Thoughts
There is one thing that struck me doing this research besides the revelation that I want to daily a truck. In this $13-20k price range, all these vehicles are of a similar vintage (2012-2019) with 80-180k miles on the clock. It is remarkable how in just about every category besides interior space and looks, the Lexus wins handily. The ride, interior layout and materials, bulletproof reliability, stereo sound quality, the GX takes the cake. And after several decades of wrenching pain, it would be great to have a daily I don’t have to worry about. There’s never been a vehicle whose looks I barely remember that I liked so much.
I’d also be perfectly happy with the Durango or Flex. There are way more examples of those vehicles to choose from. I’d just have to live with a little nagging in the back of my mind about potential reliability problems. For pure pragmatism, the Odyssey wins. It has the most room in all three rows, including the cargo area, although it may be overkill for just two kiddos. The gas mileage isn’t great, but its better than the competition here. There is a reason why people who switch to minivans love them.
So dear friends, what do you think? Am I just trying to rationalize some hidden insecurity about biting the bullet and buying a minivan? Are there other vehicles I need to test drive before making a decision? Am I in fact, stupid? My fate is in your hands, dear Autopians. I look forward to your thoughts.
What about the Toyota Highlander?
Quite a few people suggested that, going to be checking one of those out
With the Toyota tax he’s gonna be paying like 3k more for a comparable
Vehicle and the choices (except the tahoe) are all good.
The Lexus and Honda are the obvious choices. Sure, the Flex gets the cool points, but more of a gamble reliability-wise. And the Dodge, well, you’d be driving a Dodge.
Mazda Mazda5?
I drove one of these many years ago (there was actually a second generation, right?) and it was decent: a microvan essentially, and based on the Mazda 3 platform (I think from the gen where the Mazda 3 had that big smile grill). It steered and shifted (it had a manual IIRC, unless I’m misremembering) like one of those early Mazda 3s, but of course it was heavier so it wasn’t as sprightly as the 3, nor could it be tossed around like that. Technically, it is a three row vehicle, but each of the two rear rows hold only two passengers each IIRC, so maybe it fits the letter but not the spirit of the vehicles discussed above. I never got the impression that Mazda sold a ton of these (maybe one gen had a diagonal line on the door and the other one didn’t) but I’d see one now and again around SoCal.
Children are the most expensive lifestyle item you can acquire for no cost. Boats are cheaper.
And anyone getting one because it will “appreciate in value” is seriously misguided regarding investments.
Be wary that, unlike cars and boats, their maintenance costs/labor is all upfront for the first two decades, like a reverse 25 year old rule.
I’d like to nominate my own daily, an ’04 Volvo XC90 (which is the first gen of the XC90… the one with the ‘shoulders’ that all Volvos had in the later 90s and into the 00s, along with the tallish, convoluted taillights). Call it ‘The Cheapie’ if you must: I paid $3,100. for mine five years ago (it was 16 years old at the time, now it’s a legal 21) with about 130Kmiles on it… a decent price but not impossible to replicate at the time. Mine has the smallest of the four engines offered in this car over its long run: a 2.5 liter low pressure turbo five cylinder (mine’s FWD) and for me personally it’s completely adequate, though (of course) there’s also high pressure five, as well as a six, and even an eight cylinder engine available for those who are in more of a rush. AFAIK, all only came with a traditional automatic in the US (of course, the UK and Europe got diesels, manuals, etc…).
It’s quite a good car IMO, and probably the best cheap car I’ve ever bought (and I’ve had more than a few). It’s comfortable, big without being humungous, easy and even sort of enjoyable to drive, and it feels like you could get t-boned at an intersection by a fleeing and evading felon and there’s still a pretty good chance you’re going to walk away: it really feels very solid, sturdy, and tight. Interior fittings are above average: the only thing that’s shiny is the wood: everything else on the dash is matte and wears well.
My car has the third row (I think it was optional, along with separate AC for the wayback, which my car also has). I’ve never used the third row (or that rear AC) and in fact, I’ve never used the second row either: both rows two and three are permanently folded down in my car, so I can carry plenty of stuff and dogs and whatnot (I’m single/no kids, so I generally only need to carry one passenger at a time).
I really like it: I bought it on a whim while browsing local Nextdoor ads over coffee one morning. It was a single owner car just a couple towns away me, so I drove right over (via the bank) test drove it, crawled under it, liked what I saw, and bought it on the spot w/o haggling. I wasn’t car shopping at all really (I already had two other cars at the time) let alone for a biggish SUV (I’ve never actually owned any SUV before, let alone a three-row model). It’s not perfect: the seat leather is thin, so by the time 20 years have passed, it’s not great wear-wise. Also, 20-year-old headliner glue gives up easy. Being a turbo, there’s a fair bit of plumbing underhood: it’s not insane like some newer cars, but still quite a few hoses to maybe leak and throw a CEL. Also, the MPG for me (all city driving, including hills) is about 16 MPG with my gentle (TDI trained) right foot, though an honest 30 MPG is possible with this LP5 engine on those brief highway trips I take.
As much as I’m into so many cars, and keep a list of those I want to try/own at some point, including over half of the crossover/SUVs that Mazda has put out in the past several years (the CX30, CX5, CX9 and even the MX30 EV are all very interesting to me) to be totally honest if my current first-gen Volvo XC90 disappeared, I’d strongly consider just getting another one… I don’t need a bigger engine, though I’d probably opt for AWD instead of FWD next time, simply because the alley behind my house and my driveway are both kind of steep, and I’ve spun the front wheels when it’s wet/leafy out. This would probably eat another gallon or two off of the already low city MPG, but I’d probably do it anyway since I don’t drive that many miles per year. Also, I’d try to find one in a better color: mine’s a bland metallic beige (that Volvo inexplicably refers to as a mist green or something) straight off a grandma’s 90s Camry… I’d rather have one in a blue or actual green or something next time.
If I ever actually fold the 3rd row up and sit in it, I’ll let you know. 🙂
PS: I believe the Mazda CX9 could be had with a third row too, though I’m not positive. I’ve never driven one, but I’ve watched lots of reviews, and if it can be had with a third row, it definitely belongs on this list because it’s got size, style, and even some driving chops too. Plus: decent exterior colors and a great Mazda dashboard/interior. 🙂
Replying to myself since the edit window is closed: yes, the Mazda CX9 has three rows of seating accommodating up to seven passengers (on all trims). Go watch a few Youtube reviews of the CX9, I think you’ll be impressed. To be fair, I usually find the base engine on most cars more than sufficient, but I’m well past the age when I used to like to go fast everywhere.
Another quick google shows that there were two generations of the Mazda CX9: the first had a 3.5 liter six cylinder engine, also available turbocharged in later years. I don’t know much about the first gen of the CX9 or its six-cylinder engine at all. The second gen, which was only recently discontinued to make way for the new CX-90 and pals, was available mostly with Mazda’s 2.5 liter turbo four and of course, some folks feel it’s too small an engine for a vehicle this size. Me being me, I’d actually want to find an early second-gen CX9 which could be had with the NON-TURBOCHARGED version of this four, because I suspect that even that one might be enough for me (and for a long-term vehicle, I’d always rather have naturally aspirated). But again, I’m almost never in a rush to get anyplace, so I’m probably in the minority willing to consider a three row crossover with a NA 4-cylinder engine. 😉
The first gen CX-9 did start with the 3.5 in 2007 but switched to the 3.7 in 2008. Both of them are Ford engines but the 3.7 was built in Japan by Mazda. The second gen only came with the turbo but it doesn’t seem to be that stressed.
Our AWD 2013 CX-9 has the same EPA rating as your FWD XC90 at 16/22 however the 2nd gen AWD CX-9 is rated at 22/26.
And Mazda has the best red ever.
Yes, I suspected that the six in the first-gen CX9 was from Ford given Ford and Mazda’s agreement re: badge engineered little trucks and crossovers back then (the 90s I think). I wouldn’t want the one with either Ford engine, just as I’d be wary about Mazda’s own new 6 (in the CX70/90) with all it’s complexity/teething pains in the first year.
I really thought I read somewhere (more than once even?) that the 2nd gen CX9 WAS available (at least initially… in the first year or two?) with the non-turbo/naturally aspirated 2.5. As mentioned, I just don’t drive fast anymore and have liked Mazda’s 2.5 4-cylinder engine in all the different cars I’ve test driven it with.
I’ll have to research more to see if 2nd gen CX9 COULD actually be had without the turbo. 🙂
Agreed also that Mazda Soul Red Metallic (or whatever they call it these days) always looks great on every car I see it on from Miatas to CX9s. I really wish they had a comparable blue and green paint like it, even if they were usually extra charge items like the Soul Red Metallic usually is. Their metallic blue is fine, but no better than that from other brands, and they don’t usually have a metallic dark green at all for most models. 🙁
Can you really call it the wayback if it isn’t a rear facing seat in an ancient station wagon? Enquiring minds need to know!
A fair point. 🙂
Impalla SS Wagon!!!
Where’s the autopian choice? Land Rover Discovery 2! You can get them with godawful jump seats in the back to carry seven passengers. Gas mileage: 11 city, 14 highway, and that’s premium. And how about that storied British reliability?! Oh…well the engine was designed by Buick…in the 50s. But it looks like you’re on safari in Africa! And looks will be as close as you get as it releases all of its fluids onto your driveway. In conclusion buy the minivan.
Well if the budget is $10-20k, you could buy like 4 of them. Name them Spring, Summer, Autumn, and Winter for the 3 months you have each individually working in the given year.
I was very, very close to buying a ’94 or ’95 Disco 1 with a freaking manual and like 180k miles. The want for safari windows is very, very strong.
I’d say it also depends on lifestyle needs. If you have a medium-large dog it will be much easier to have the side opening door GX or a van. Power hatches suck when the dog triggers the safety or jumps out.
If you do outdoor activities like camping, skiing, cycling, kayaking or _______ then that cargo area might be needed with that 3rd row up since kids will always want to bring a friend. Then again, roof pods and hitch racks help with all that junk. I’ve done it in several formations and they all work. I’ve added a hitch to almost every vehicle I’ve had. Roof rack too. But that’s my needs, not yours. Keep us posted about what you go with. Nice article BTW.
I also have to mention that if you’ve got an older dog (and a bad back) pretty much most/all of the bigger SUVs/crossovers/whatevers I’ve seen have the floor of the cargo area pretty high off the ground, whereas this is not the case with most minivans. My dog’s missing a couple of toes and isn’t wild about jumping in general, and I probably have the worst spine in the entire universe of Autopian readers, and hefting her mere 50 lb bulk up into my Volvo XC90 is a bit of a pain for us both (literally, in my case).
I’ve never had a minivan, but would absolutely consider it if a nice used one crossed my path at a can’t-say-no price.
Odyssey. We have one (kids call it carlita). Bought it for $13k from the original owner with a touch over 100k on it. Its up to 190k now and has been the best addition to the family. Sliding doors are a game changer.
We have off roaded it 45 miles off pavement, driven to both coasts with it, camped with it, put 5 bikes on it – cannot be beat. I cannot imagine a more reliable car.
Did the eco delete thing – and the best thing i did – was to find an independent honda shop and they do my wrenching for me. I have other projects in the garage (lemons, williys jeep etc) but you don’t want to put your schedule in between a reliable kid function and a working car.
MDX. Fluids and filters for 145K now. Like new. 28 mpg under the right circumstances. Our Kona EV does 95%+ of our miles. The MDX is our second car / road trip car. It’s ’14 Tech package.
Plus, MDXs sometimes look genuinely handsome too! 🙂
Our Neighbors same gen Odessey just ate the transmission at 125K. Quoted $6000 to replace. Seems high to me. Have owned 2 Lexus’s. Amazing reliability and fit/finish, even as it ages…
Dead nuts practical pick? Just get the Odessey.
It’s going to do everything you want. It’s absolutely reliable. It’s going to do The Thing perfectly, every time.
Minivans can also be great hauling vehicles and sports vehicles with some or all of the seats removed. You can fit a ton of cargo in the back. You can throw multiple mountain bikes back there. A huge amount of camping gear will fit, no problem. Some maniacs even drain the gas out of motorcycles and shove them in there sideways.
Even if the vehicle itself is boring, the minivan can enable tons of fun activities in a similar way as a pickup truck.
For more fun? Let the Lexus. I was never a truck person until I bought an old, battered F-150 when we were remodeling our house. It started off as something exclusively for Home Depot and dump runs. Within a few months, I made it my daily driver just because I enjoyed it.
There really is something about driving a big truck that’s fun. The huge turning radius, boatlike handling, and big engine are kind of endearing. There are so few disincentives for owning a giant vehicle in America, why not just give it into it?
PS: I’m stoked to see you writing for the Autopian! We used to kick it after work in the Townhouse during college 🙂
Hey! Thanks for the recommendations! Who is this? Had some fun times at the townhouse haha.
It’s Paul. I emailed you to say hi!
Go full dad. Get the minivan!
My aunt has a Yukon of the same generation as that Tahoe. At 51,000~ miles, the transmission bit the dust, right after the warranty expired. It was not a cheap repair, and she plans to get rid of it before it eats another transmission.
We never wanted to be minivan parents, and stuck it out with a Ford Explorer for 8 years while growing our family from one kid to two before finally buying a Sienna. My advice: buy the minivan. You’ll appreciate it every day for its kid and cargo hauling capability. Luckily, my kids don’t play soccer, so no soccer mom/dad vibes here.
Yes!!
We own a 2005 Sienna. Best family workhorse now at 250k. And my kids do play soccer lol. My friend has an Odyssey and we had to replace the ball joints (whole Ctrl arms) twice. NY salt is starting to get the sienna so we plan to get a 07-09 and the old one will be my new winter beater.
Final note: when I was young I thought I knew more about cars than anyone. Now I realize I know enough that no one’s opinion matters to me. They can buy whatever the commercials convince them is the best. Anyone that dumps on a minivan has never driven one.
We have a 2018 with 150K, and its undercarriage is still holding up pretty well to road salt (upstate NYer here). I bought my wife a membership at a car wash around the corner from her place of work, so it gets washed at least weekly in the winter.
I did notice while replacing the brakes that the front control arms are starting to show some surface rust. I’ll clean them up and hit them with POR15 this summer.
I’ve had the same evolution regarding cars…buy the one that will best do the job, no matter others’ opinions. Unless you’re buying an enthusiast/classic/performance car, they’re a tool that needs to be fit for purpose.
I thought that all soccer parents drove SUVs by now 🙂
You sound exactly like me back in 2017. I was 39, just had a second kid and needed something a bit bigger. It was between a 2012 MDX and 2014 GX460 Luxury both CPO with roughly 65k miles. I actually preferred the driving dynamics of the MDX but my wife preferred the GX so we got that. I still have it to this day and it just crested 100k a few months ago.
In the time I had it, I’ve had to replace a leaking radiator last year (~$1200 at an independent shop) Lexus wanted $1900. I also replaced all rotors, pads and front calipers that seized. The independent shop quoted me $1500, I didn’t even want to bother with the dealer as I knew it would be more. I eventually did the work myself which cost me $400 in parts from Rock Auto, I didn’t go with OEM. It took me 2 weekends as I messed up taking off one of the rear rotors since it was a disc/drum combo for the parking brake. Other than that it’s just been fluids and filters. This year I’ll need new tires which will probably be $1200 for a set.
The mileage is atrocious but if gas costs are a major concern this car is probably not for you. I average about 16mpg but in winters that drops down to 14 on the coldest days. I’m in New England and rust is a major concern with these Toyota frames. The underbody has significant surface rust but I’ve been religious about applying underbody protection like Fluid Film before each winter. It’s definitely something to be aware of, I suspect Detroit salts their roads the same.
The 1UR is prone to a coolant valley leak, I was afraid of that when I was losing coolant but thankfully it was only the radiator.
With the 3rd row up you have no cargo space. Maybe a few grocery bags but once you open the back door that stuff will tumble straight out.
You already mentioned it but the infotainment system is horrible. I get by with my phone on a dash mount.
It’s been a good car and I plan to keep it for the foreseeable future. I’m definitely not in love with the driving feel, to me it feels lunky and slow but its a family car and it fulfills that purpose well. I still think about trading it all the time for something a bit more engaging but I have other cars that serve that purpose. If this was our one and only car I’d probably have already traded it for something else already.
Thanks!! I appreciate the real world info!
We loved our 4th gen odyssey and only parted ways with it the month after paying it off when the shop we had do timing belts on it mistimed it and trashed the engine. Lots of sad face there
It was even the same grey. One time got into one parked 2 spots over from ours on accident that had the doors unlocked. That was alarming
Reliability excludes the Flex and Dodge. The Tahoe is too big. The Odyssey is predictable. The Lexus has your heart. Go with your heart.
There’s a 2019 Durango R/T that’s rapidly approaching 100k in my garage which has never had a single repair done that would like to discuss Dodge reliability with you.
Great!
And some people live to 100 even though they smoke 2 packs a day and have a slab of bacon for every breakfast.
And sometimes common perceptions are overblown.
Are they Toyota? No. Are they Rivian? Also no.
Pentastar or the 5.7?
5.7
I’m a big fan of the Astro/Safari. We had one for years, even as three kids became three over 6ft humans. Ours was a 1998 Astro LS for over a 15 years. Then it continued life as a maintenance van for our landlord.
The Vortec V6 accelerated well, could knock the back end out when you felt rowdy, and it always worked. We never had it go down with a major mechanical issue. It was super comfy, had great visibility, a solid ride height, surprisingly good stock sound system, and it’s a van. Built out of truck parts. Total winner.
Plus, you could get it with half barn doors and AWD.
Don’t watch any test crash video of the Astro/Safari. We liked ours…in 1996. Used it as a daily driver. We camped in it a lot. We needed to tow a boat and a small Airstream, but over the years we taxed that van too much and we would have been better served with something with more towing capacity. Choose something safer. If you need it, choose something that can really do big truck & SUV tasks.
I highly recommend the Mazda5 if you only need 6 seats. It handles well has an astonishing amount of space and the second generation ones with the swoopy lines on the side are stylish. It’s a bit underpowered but slow car fast and was last sold in the US in 2015. Outside the US you get it with a diesel, a manual transmission and brown paint
Thanks for reminding me: it’s the 2nd gen with the diagonal lines one the doors. Do you happen to know if it and the first gen one are built on the same platform (shared with the Mazda 3, as is almost everything small that Mazda makes) or did the 2nd gen Mazda 5 move to a newer 3-based platform?
Also agreed about the slow car fast: I only drove the Mazda 5 once (at Galpin Ford in LA as it happens, so thanks Beau!) and liked it more than a bit. I dug the space inside, and the sliding door(s) and of course it drove well for what it was (not that there’s a whole lot to compare it to since microvans didn’t catch on in the US).
I’m pretty sure we had the option of a manual too (I think that’s what I test drove) but I could be imagining that. Could you imagine one with a manual and diesel in ANY color? That would make me grin from ear to ear! 😀
My research indicates the Nagare styled Mazda5 from 2010-2015 US or 2010-2018 globally was culture on the second generation C platform, while the 2006-2010 was on a C1 platform. Both US market generations had a manual available on the lowest Sport trim but most were auto and Touring was auto only. We had a 2014 Sport with auto, until it was totaled.
You are a gentleman (or person, or woman, or whatever) SJC… that is delightfully useful niche info! Thanks! 😀
Minivans fit this use case nicely, we’re quite happy with our Toyota Sienna. But if that doesn’t float your boat, go with that Lexus you want.
Someone has already pointed out it would be wise to figure out operating costs as well as just purchase price, obviously good advice.
Don’t forget the sliding doors on the Odyssey. I complained about this today to my wife whilst trying to angle the little one out of the car without knocking the door into the parked car next to us.
We’re looking at getting either a Kia Carnival (her preference because the new ones look like SUVs) or a Toyota Vellfire (my preference because I like something a bit left field) once our second baby is born and her mum and sister come to live with us for another 12 months.
Our current car is a 7-seat 2014 Ford Territory SUV (similar size to a Flex I think), and the issue is we won’t be able to fold down the middle row with the baby seats installed – unless we put the second baby seat in the middle, but then it’ll be a hassle buckling in that middle-seat baby. That and the back row will still probably be too difficult for my mobility-restricted MiL and SiL too access.
Had to look up what a Vellfire is… google thinks it’s what I know as the Alphard (in Asian markets via Youtube videos).
It’s essentially the same car as the Alphard but with a different front and rear bumper treatment that (imo) looks marginally better than the Alphard – at least on the 20 series version I’m considering.
94-96 Buick Roadmaster wagon.
This is The Autopian answer. My pick would be the Oldsmobile Custom Cruiser from ’92 with the L05, but that’s a needle in a stack of needles. Triple benches FTW
V8 Explorer. Good luck finding one that isn’t trashed also brakes suck unless you go the extra trashed Lincoln.
But it’s fun.
I’d get the Odyssey. I got a third gen with 176k on it last year and it’s needed nothing so far. If it has more than 100k miles on it make sure there’s a record of the timing belt being done on time or take the risk and factor an additional $1300~ onto the purchase cost to get it done asap. Also if you do go the vcm muzzle route, it will cut highway fuel economy down by a few miles per gallon.
Timing belt changes are always so expensive. 🙁
I did it myself once on an ’84 GTI (VW Rabbit) and it wasn’t too bad if you have someone to help who’s done it before.
I knew better than to try it myself on an ’00 TDI (VW Golf diesel) and paid a guy named Leonard in Fullerton, CA $1,100. to do it (the water pump and tensioner also get replaced, with only 40K miles on them!) and that was a good price at the time (this is about a decade ago).
I always tell myself that in the future I’ll only buy cars with non-interference engines (so if the belt breaks it doesn’t destroy the engine) but interference designs are a LOT more common apparently and there will be entire decent brands off-limits (most or all of Mazda for example) if you refuse to consider interference designs.
Some cars have timing chains, which tend to last longer and also make noise before failing, but not too many. And a few have neither belts nor chains, but gears instead which seems like an ideal scenario, but there are only a relative few and the couple I’ve heard of are pricey cars.
I told myself I’d only buy non-interference non-timing belt engines as well but ended up with two.
Willingly with the Odyssey but one was due to a miscommunication about the model year, the owner had a 2016 Grand Caravan and a 2009 Journey and them being both Dodges got the years mixed up some how. I did my research about 2016s and those have timing chains, but being a 2009 it has Chryslers 3.5 with a timing belt instead of the Pentastar 3.6. Due to my wife being very pregnant, 2 days away from due date, and needing a car and the low price of $1500, we just bought it. Now I’m set to spend $1300 getting the timing belt and water pump done.
I miss the peace of mind of a timing chain immensely every single day. I’m sure timing gears would be even more reassuring.
Somebody should make a list of interference vs non-interference, with a note as to whether the car has a timing belt, chain, or gears. Somebody probably already has (or there’s some online resource that lets you sort by those criteria) but I haven’t found it.
TBH, the whole int vs non-int and belt, etc… thing is another point in favor of EVs, though I’ve yet to own an EV myself yet. 🙂