If you look at as many automotive classified ads as I do, you start to get a feeling for when something is too good to be true. Outright scams are usually easy to spot, but cars that are good deals except for that one little thing require you to click on the ad and read it. If you’re actually looking for a car to buy, those catches are usually enough to make you look elsewhere, but this week, I’m seeking out those ads intentionally, trying to find cars that are still worth it despite that one little thing.
On Friday, I asked you to choose one of our ridiculous project vehicles from the week and assign it to an Autopian writer to fix up. It was no contest: the old REO Speed Wagon ran away with this one. I had a feeling you all were gonna keep on lovin’ that one. (Last REO lyrics joke, I promise.) And most of you wanted to give it to either David or Stephen to fix up. I did lke the idea that a few of you had of shipping the T-bucket over to Adrian, too.
Regular commenter Shop-Teacher wanted to give me the T1000, and I guess I’d take it – but that dumb V6 has to go. I like that engine in my old Chevy pickup, but it doesn’t belong in a flimsy little hatchback. I bet a 2200 OHV four-cylinder and five-speed stick from an S-10 would work pretty well, though. And that would still just about double the output of the stock engine.
There’s always a certain amount of – I won’t say dishonesty – but emphasizing the good points and downplaying the problems when writing a classified ad for a car. You choose the photo of the good side as your lead image. You don’t mention that the power windows don’t work until after you point out how well it runs. Everybody does it. And it means that you have to read ads carefully to make sure you aren’t wasting your time going to look at something that ends up being junk. Both of these cars seem like great deals at first glance, but like always, you have to read the fine print. Let’s check them out.
1987 Honda Civic CRX HF – $1,500
Engine/drivetrain: 1.5-liter OHC inline 4, five-speed manual, FWD
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
Odometer reading: 231,000 miles
Operational status: Starts, but won’t idle
The Honda CRX, like the Pontiac Fiero introduced the same year, was billed as a stripped-down two-seater commuter car, but one look at either of them and you knew they weren’t fooling anyone. The CRX may have gotten excellent fuel economy, especially in this ultra-lightweight HF form, but it has the soul of a sports car. The sportier Si version may have gotten all the attention from enthusiasts, but the HF handles almost as well and will still put a smile on your face.
This one, unfortunately, needs a little help; its 1.5-liter carbureted engine will start, but it won’t stay running at idle. The seller makes no mention of how it runs if you keep your foot on the gas, so it’s hard to diagnose what the problem might be. My first guess, however, would be a vacuum leak. Carburetors in the last days before fuel injection took over were a nightmare of sensors and actuators, many of which were vacuum-controlled, and all it takes is one little pinhole in a rubber hose or a little crack in a gasket to cause all sorts of weirdness. The first thing I’d do to this one is replace all the vacuum lines, as well as the gasket at the base of the carburetor, and see if it starts behaving properly. If that’s not it, the next thing to check would be the choke, or something else on the carb itself.
Whether they were bought for economy or for fun, CRXs were not expensive cars, and as such, they got used hard. I’m not surprised that the interior of this one needs a little love. The driver’s seat needs at least a cover, or maybe reupholstering or replacement. And the Honda logo is missing from the steering wheel, if you care about such things. The rest of the interior looks pretty good, and it does appear to have air conditioning, though there’s no telling if it works.
The photos in the ad aren’t great, but it looks like it’s in good condition outside. This is a rare car these days in a lot of parts of the country, due to Honda’s propensity towards rust; you almost have to come to a climate like California to find a clean one anymore. It’s registered as non-operational, and the seller doesn’t say how long it has been sitting. It also has a salvage title, but it really doesn’t matter; if you want a good first-generation CRX, grab a U-Haul trailer and head west.
1997 Infiniti Q45 – $1,450
Engine/drivetrain: 4.1-liter DOHC V8, four-speed automatic, RWD
Location: San Jose, CA
Odometer reading: 117,000 miles
Operational status: Runs and drives well
I mentioned that the CRX is on non-operational registration. That’s a quirk of California law that a lot of people outside the state aren’t aware of. If you let the registration on a car lapse, and don’t tell the state it’s not being driven, you (or whoever buys it from you) still owe the DMV all the registration fees for that period of time. Let a car sit long enough, and those fees can add up. In the case of this Infiniti Q45, they add up to $1,200, which you will need to pay before you can register it in the state of California. I think that’s the reason why it is priced so low.
It’s a damn nice car, though; the Q45 was designed to compete with the Lexus LS, as well as the big German sedans. It has a V8 engine displacing 4.1 liters (earlier versions had a 4.5-liter engine, hence the name, but I guess they thought Q41 didn’t sound as good) and a four-speed automatic. This is a one-owner car, with only 117,000 miles on it, and according to the seller, there’s nothing wrong with it. Low mileage plus long-term lapsed registration points to an elderly owner who passed away, and the car was probably bought from an estate auction for next to nothing.
It’s as loaded inside as you would expect, with leather, wood, and power everything. There’s a little wear on the driver’s seat, but otherwise it looks really nice. The seller says that everything works in there, too, including the air conditioning.
The original Q45 was a wild design for its time; a little too wild, as it turns out. For this second generation, Infiniti toned down the styling and made it more Lexus-like, or rather, more Mercedes-like, which is what Lexus was aiming for. The result is nowhere near as cool-looking as the original, but it’s a handsome enough car. This one looks good, except for some scuffs on the bumpers here and there.
Fifteen hundred bucks isn’t a lot for a car these days, and you have to expect to spend some more to whip a car that cheap into shape. For one of these, that means towing it home and turning some wrenches, and for the other, it means giving the bureaucrats almost as much as you paid for the car. Still, even with all that, they could both end up being good deals. Which one are you willing to spend the extra money on?
As much as I can personally attest to the first-gen CRX being a wonderful ride, I’m too chicken to take that plunge and hope to get it running. Besides… carbs? Feh.
The Q-ship is almost certainly a reasonably priced ride for what’ll be $2,650. I just won’t drive it far because it’s a gas hog, of course.
That’s a pretty plush Infiniti for the total cost. I like a CRX, but they tend to get beat, so there might be more wrong with that specimen from Santa Cruz.
There is almost certainly more wrong with the Honda, and Santa Cruz is the big red flag here. Cars parked close to the coast get what you might call “directional rust”, which you can see on the driver’s side of the CRX’s window trim, windshield edge, and at the inner corner of the headlight. There’s a diesel Datsun/Nissan pickup eternally parked about a block off the water down the bay in Pacific Grove that comes to mind… it has a surprisingly intact bed but everything from the cab forward is rusted into crumbly lace. The front 3” of the hood is entirely gone. Guess which end faces the ocean.
The other Santa Cruz issue regards the ratty interior. Together with the chronic left-side corrosion, this makes it look like a surf bum car. A friend bought a coastal first-gen Integra that looked a lot like this and I can still remember the terminal stench inside, like a locker room that’s also a dog kennel with a severe mold problem.
In addition inland where most of the land is desert you get a little bit of sand blasting every time the wind blows letting the salt air hit bare metal.
The Q45 looks too nice to pass up at that price.
I had a 2002 Q45. Loved it. One of the cars I still miss. It was like driving a La-Z-Boy strapped to a 340 HP rocket. I’ll take that old Q over a busted CRX, 6 days a week and twice on Sunday.
CRX could be 8 trillion things, the carb, the vacuum lines, the goofy black box, etc. I had an 88 Accord with an A20 carb and I dropped about 50lbs of garbage out of the engine bay when I removed all the factory stuff and switched over to a simple 2 barrel weber. I have a feeling that’d be the smart move on this thing.
and this is one of the reasons why I only like EFI era Hondas. Bonus points for VTEC and timing chains. This CRX has neither. Q45 FTW
I’d usually go with the CRX but a road trip home in that Infinity sounds nice. And then sell it because “PREMIUM UNLEADED FUEL ONLY”
Where I am, premium is only $.30/gal more than regular. And I doubt very much you could tell the difference running regular in the thing anyway. It’s modern enough to have knock sensors.
But it seems waaay too good for the price. Feels a bit scammy.
Could be bait, could be “oops the new guy didn’t check before taking it in.”
Well the smart thing would be selling it now while gas prices are the lowest in five years where the buyer doesn’t think about it going back up again.
I would bet you money that 95% of these cars never had anything but regular put in them from day 1.
I’m curious how the back fees affect an out of stater like myself, but I have little use for the project CRX due to lack of interest, and I’ll always take a cruiser sedan so… Q45 it is for me.
I thought I’d go CRX from the start but the non -op part makes me think it might be more than just a vacuum hose or bad carb gasket that has caused this car to sit with a non-op status. Those are relatively easy things to fix and not start to accrue DMV fees.
The original Q45 was a pretty cool car. Nice design and it drove well for such a large car. I kind of think Infiniti came out of the box in peak form and has gone downhill since. So I’ll pay the fees and drive it home. You could check out both cars as they are only about 30 minutes apart from each other with a drive down Highway 17.
Even though it needs work, I have a soft spot for the CRX… and that example seems to be rust free… so it gets my vote.
Rust is the #1 enemy for old Hondas like this.
First gen CRX all day. I’m biased since my first car is was an 86 Si that I still own.
I think I could get it to pass smog and then you have a high MPG car that feels sporty since it weighs less than 2000lbs. Just don’t look at the crash rating.
If you look at my profile picture you can probably guess how I voted
Q45 as it’d be a comfy road-tripper (theoretically) back to Kentucky.
I think…
I went with the Infiniti, in part because I think some of their earlier products were the most appealing (to me). Of course, I’d have to give the car a once-over, and research whether the low price plus back reg still makes sense. I think I’d just rather be comfortable (assuming it passes CA smog and can therefore even be registered, so knowing when it last passed smog would be useful info).
The CRX is probably fixable, but again: whether it can be made to pass smog (at a reasonable cost) is the question. Since Leno’s Law didn’t pass, both of these cars will have to pass that test every two years in order to renew their registration here. The Honda doesn’t nearly look ‘too far gone’ and as Mark points out, replacing the old vacuum hoses might take care of the idle issue (perhaps it’s also possible to retrofit fuel injection from a later car? No idea if so, and probably costs too much w/o a whole donor car, but whatevs…).
Another out-of-stater voting for the bargain V8 Qruiser. At that price I won’t feel bad throwing a glass-pack on it.
This is me as well.
You should always feel bad about doing that to any car and any neighbors
Not a worry in my neighborhood. We’ve got a fairly busy rail-line about two houses away, one of my neighbors has a Harley, another has a C3 Corvette with loud pipes, and the other neighbors live in an old house/apartment-conversion I myself own. It’s a pretty-sweet setup!
I like the CRX more, but the Q is a better deal.
Clarification on the Q45’s status – this is a lapsed registration, not planned non op. In the former, the state has been sending registration renewals to the owner’s address which have been ignored. Probably as Mark said because the dead don’t read their mail. Since plates and reg here stay with the car, the new CA owner would owe the past registration fees plus late fees. Planned non-op (PNO) is when you pull the car off the road (eg for a restoration) but plan to drive it in CA in the future. You pay a nominal fee each year to keep the car registered but you don’t get an annual sticker, so you’re at risk if you drive it during that time. The buyer of a PNO car doesn’t owe any fees. TLDR = Buy the Q and register it elsewhere.
Correct, with one exception:
I’m in CA and currently one of my three cars, and my motorcycle, are registered PNOP. There is no nominal yearly fee for PNOP… once you’re registered as such (and paid that initial fee… I forget what it is atm) you then don’t have to pay or do anything and the car remains PNOP. Of course, you’re not able/supposed to drive it on public roads, and you will not receive any current reg stickers, since it’s not inspected/smogged/currently registered for legal use.
My other two cars are registered/insured, and I’ll have to decide in a month or so whether I’m going to re-smog/renew the reg on the Miata, which I haven’t driven in a few months. I’d like to have some work done on it, so if my beloved Miata guy (George, formerly at Sport Imports on Laurel Canyon Blvd.) hasn’t fully retired yet and is willing to work on it, I will probably re-smog/renew. It also need$ new tires, so that’s another grand.
I don’t live in California, so those pesky registration fees aren’t a problem for me. I’ll take the Q45.
Oof. I love a CRX, and this one is a fine starting point for a restoration. But compared to that Yakuza Q-ship, there’s no contest. Q45 all the way today.
The Q is a nice car but I WANT a CRX so that’s the one for me today.
That Infiniti looks like a screaming deal to me, especially if you’re in N. Arizona or Nevada where it’s just a quick tow to registration fee liberation. Those weren’t bad cars at all, they just weren’t as good as the legendary Lexus.
I’ll have the Cima – Thanks!
It’s Zomething different!
Fine taste
Ummm, so what’s the catch on the Q? Overdue registration fees? I don’t care… I don’t live in Cali.
If you have it towed out of CA without the tires touching hallowed CA pavement, you can get the title from Sacramento without having to pay the overdue redo fees. I did this years ago with an MG. I think I did have to get a notarized statement from the seller that it was stored on private property etc.
Wait, so I couldn’t just drive it out on an (out of state) trip permit?
Definitely no. It was made clear to me that the way to avoid paying the back fees was to NOT drive it on CA roads. Probably not an issue once it’s on another state’s plates, but they even wanted confirmation that it had been towed on a car carrier and not a dolly.
I looked at some old correspondence. I had to provide a “Certificate of Non-Operation” (my link is dead, but the document name was “reg102.pdf”) attesting that the car was stored and not driven or parked on the street in CA. IIRC I took that and sent it to Sacramento with a check for $18 and they sent me a title. That was on the advice of someone at the CA DMV, who I’ve found are remarkably easy to reach via phone.
You remove it from Cali as long as your state isn’t one that collected money for Cali you don’t owe anything to Cali.
As long as you don’t need a title to go with your vehicle, sure. In my case, I needed a California title in order to transfer my ownership to Colorado, and in order to do that I had to deal with the back fees.
If I bought it, I’d just register it at my place in Maine and fly out there with the new plates. It’s too old to need a title In Maine. Convenient, that. 25 years rolling in Maine these days for needing a title, so 1999 and older, nothing but a bill of sale, insurance, and money required. For this, a decent amount of money, these were not cheap cars new.
Never like CRX’s, Q-Ships of the next gen are a bit eggy for me, but this gen is trying to be a Mercedes to me and does it well. Nisan for me
I’m going with the Infiniti. My state couldn’t care less that California is demanding a $1200 bribe to get this back on the road. This car is a great deal for out of state buyers, assuming you have an affordable way to transport it.
The CRX is a solid deal, though. I’m not sure it would be easy to fix up and drive as-is, but $1500 is a decent price for a rust-free CRX carcass. This would be a great choice for someone that wants a big project.
A cross country road trip in the big Q-ship would be fun. Then sell it for more than I paid once I get home to not-California. That’s an easy $2500 car around me.