One of the most persistent dangers of doing this job is finding cars that I want to buy for myself. Especially since I have kinda-sorta been thinking about another “fun” car ever since I sold my MG. An old Audi has been on my list of cars to look for since time out of mind, but since they’re so rare, they’re usually not much of a temptation. But then I find these two, nearby and reasonably-priced. Our Lady Of German Engineering, give me strength. Since I’m not realistically in a position to buy either one of them right now, I’ll just show them to you and see what you think.
We looked at a couple of pink Hondas yesterday, and I was surprised by the outcome: the Bubblicious-colored Element came out on top. Was it just that the CRX was so sad-looking? Maybe so. The Element’s ad did show a couple of red flags (pink flags?) that I didn’t notice at first glance; there is a chance that those interior photos don’t go with that car. Hopefully everything is on the up-and-up, and it serves someone well. They certainly won’t lose it in a parking lot.
For me, it’s simple; I like the Element, but I have wanted a CRX since they came out. It’s one of those cars that has just never been in the right place at the right time, but I wouldn’t turn this one down on account of some faded paint and a boop on the nose. It’s maybe a little bit more expensive than it should be, but that’s where prices are going. It sucks, but that’s the way it is.
My parents had a lot of unusual cars when I was growing up, but they kept coming back to two automakers: Chrysler and VW/Audi. That will come as no surprise to anyone who reads this column regularly and knows my taste in cars, I’m sure. I’ve had plenty of Chrysler products over the years, but I never went back to VW, and I’ve never had an Audi of my own. As with CRXs, it was never the right car in the right place at the right time. Audi gets a bad rap for reliability, particularly the newer ones, but these old models are fairly simple machines. Electronics may fail, power features may conk out, but the basic guts of them are sturdy. And with the exception of the Quattro models, they’re usually cheap – if you can find one. Well, I found two, so let’s take a look at them.
1986 Audi 4000 CS – $2,500
Engine/drivetrain: 1.8-liter OHC inline-4, three-speed automatic, FWD
Location: Kalamazoo, MI
Odometer reading: 190,000 miles (but it’s broken, so more than that)
Operational status: Runs and drives well
Audi changed its cars’ names when it brought them over to the US, and I couldn’t tell you why. In Europe, this car is called the Audi 80, but here it’s the 4000. The CS designation marks this car as a “Commemorative Design” edition, available only in 1986. I don’t remember the exact details, but it was basically a fancy interior and maybe some special wheels. Neat, but not really anything special. The CS package is more commonly seen on the 4000 Quattro or the Coupe GT, making this a pretty rare car. But as we all know, rare doesn’t necessarily mean valuable.
The 4000 Quattro came with Audi’s five-cylinder engine, but the 2WD version made do with a 1.8-liter four, usually coupled to a three-speed automatic, which is what this car has. It’s not what you’d call speedy, but it gets the job done. The seller says it has had a lot of recent work done, and it runs and drives great. In fact, it was daily driven not too long ago.
This is the only photo we get of the interior, and it’s not much to go on. It has what looks like aftermarket vinyl covers on the front seats. The seats should be suede or velour under them, and I would hope that they’re in good condition, but I fear they’re not. I wouldn’t be surprised if some of the power stuff doesn’t work, too. It’s just how it is.
Audi started galvanizing the bodies of its cars sometime in the ’80s, so it’s rare to see one with much in the way of rust. But of course, other stuff can rust too, like suspension arms and brake lines, so it’s still worth checking it out underneath. I do see a little bit of rust along the leading edge of the hood, and possibly a bubble or two in the rear wheel arches, but for a forty-year-old Michigan car, it’s in remarkable shape. The aftermarket cherry-bomb muffler poking out from under the bumper worries me a bit; I hope it’s not the only thing quieting the exhaust.
1986 Audi 5000 CS Turbo – $2,200
Engine/drivetrain: Turbocharged 2.2-liter OHC inline 5, five-speed manual, FWD
Location: Laingsburg, MI
Odometer reading: 131,000 miles
Operational status: Runs and drives well
This car would have been known in Europe as the Audi 200, and it was the flagship of the line until the V8 sedan came out in 1990. One of the Audis my family had when I was younger was a 5000 CS Turbo like this, and it was a damn nice car. This one doesn’t look quite as fancy as the one we had, but it has one feature none of our Audis ever had: a five-speed manual transmission.
The turbocharger adds almost fifty horsepower to Audi’s legendary inline five, and from what I remember it’s all up top. Performance off the line is about the same between the turbo and non-turbo versions, but passing gear is a whole other ball game. It probably wouldn’t feel nearly as fast to me now, since I’m used to a Chrysler Hemi, but back when I was 18, the turbo kicking in made me giggle. This one has only 131,000 miles to its name, and recently had a new clutch, brakes, and timing belt installed. The seller does mention that it has an oil leak that needs some attention; they think it’s coming from the pan gasket. But other than that, it’s in fine mechanical shape.
The interior of these cars is really nice, and this one is in good shape. There’s a smudge or something on the driver’s seat bolster, and some discoloration on the door panel, but otherwise it’s clean. Again, I’m sure there is something broken in there, there always is, but the seller does say that the air conditioning works beautifully.
The outside looks really nice, but there is one rust spot on the right rear quarter panel. Apparently it was involved in a fender-bender and repaired ages ago, and now the repair has started to rust a tiny bit. You can redo it, or just ignore it, which is what I’d probably do. It also has some rock chips in the leading edge of the hood; I’m guessing it lived on a gravel road at one point.
Personally, I’d be happy with either of these. They both have their strengths and weaknesses: the 4000 is going to be a bit pokey, but it’s a much simpler car. The 5000 would be more fun, especially with its manual transmission, but it’s an order of magnitude more complicated. Either one is more DIY-friendly than any Audi made in the last twenty years, though. Which way would you go?
Ima grab my LL Cool J tapes and I’m Audi 5000 ya’ll
Having owned a 5000 way back when, I’d definitely have another.
Unlike yesterday, this one is obvious, very obvious.
A couple dozen comments before I get here, 8 votes for the 4000, but not a single comment explaining how they voted that way? Because it’s indefensible, that’s why.
5000 sailing to an easy win here.
I will take the Audi, begrudgingly.
The 5000 has every advantage over the 4000, other than some more visible rust. And for me that’s balanced out by the fact that we can’t see the 4000’s seats.
I can’t see why anyone would pick the 4000 over the 5000, so 5000 it is.
It’s even a bigger number, to make it obviously better!
My dad had an ’85 4000 when I was a young’un. It had the same motor but with a manual. Despite nostalgia calling me to vote for the 4000, even I couldn’t ignore the appeal of the 5000.
The 5000 is manual and although it doesn’t look like it among today’s cars, the aerodynamic styling was absolutely groundbreaking in its day. And in the highly theoretical event that I would ship it over the pond I have a friend living nearby who is an Audi enthusiast and owns both an 80 sedan and a 100 wagon from the respective generations.
I am Audi 5000 all the way to the Catalina Wine Mixer.
I had an 86 4000CS Quattro, and loved that car – it had the I5 engine and a 5sp MT. But of these two, i’m taking the 5000.
little q, little q. Yes I have to be that guy 🙂
I’m Audi 5000.
It has a Stick.
I don’t really like German luxury cars, though.
I’m also audi 5000 yo
Until you get inside. As a former 87 Audi GT owner, the interior plastics on these things is terrible when it gets sun. AS Michigan cars these may have been preserved a little better, but min was from Georgia, and was half the age of these at the time; and the interior was quickly returning to the earth. The window visor clips would break, the rearview mirror’s plastic surround had mostly left the chat, and all the touch points were getting chalky and uncomfortable to touch.
The front suspension was never quite right, I had persistent concerning clunks coming from the front end, even after spending thousands at a euro specific shop to replace the struts, springs, ballpoints, strut mounts, tie rods.. It was enough to make me give up a trade in the car as I was doing too much long distance driving to continue dumping $1000/month on repairs.
All that being said, it was a real hoot to drive, even in the non-turbo automatic version I had; I still dream about it on occasion and bemoan what could have been had I not given up on the thing. They are incredibly expensive now, in reasonable condition; and I’ve never driven anything else quite like it.
Anyways I voted for the 5000.
**Starts trying to figure out where the hell Laingsburg is**
Definitely the 5000 for me. It might be harder to keep running, but the payoff for when it does run is so much better. Seeing that TT in the background makes me think the seller is an Audi enthusiast. I choose to take that as a sign the 5000 has been well cared for and not as a sign that the seller knows they need to get rid of it.
I’ve driven both back in the 90’s –
One was my Boss car, the other a friends.
I’d get the 5000 despite the massive turbo lag – the manual should help make up for it in a way my Boss’ automatic emphasized.
“Audi started galvanizing the bodies of its cars sometime in the ’80s, so it’s rare to see one with much in the way of rust.”
Because galvanization is a surface treatment – so when the coating is damaged, you get rust.
These rigs are Maximum 80s, just look at them.
At first I was all ooh, 4000 looks nice and then I saw five-pot turbo and nope, it’s going to be the 5000 for me and probably damn near everyone else.
And it is.
These rigs are Maximum 80s, just look at them.
The 80/4000 B2 was heavily facelifted in 1984 to look similar to the 100/200/5000 C3, but it’s technically from the 70s. It was replaced by the B3 after only two years.
The 5000 is the better car by far, an 80s design icon and has the fifth cylinder, the turbo and a manual (not to mention its status as an infamous TV celebrity in the US). Even though I like the facelifted 4000 for it’s quirkiness, the 5000 is clearly the winner here.
As we used to say back in the ’90s, I am Audi 5000.
5000 > 4000
Easy math.
Same year, better color, cheaper, manual, no cherry bomb muffler. 5K is the easy choice.
The under hood shot of the 5000 did much to convince me, plus the manual trans. An easy pick day.
Dang, Mark. I just sold a car for a hair over the purchase price of either one of these, and my wife has been talking about wanting an old Audi for backroads shenanigans. Why must you tempt me so?
5000, obvs. She really wants a Quattro though.
the wife is in? do it man!!
Owned one of the big ones, capable of impressive speeds even without turbo. So I’ma try a turbo one!
I’ll live with the fact that it has the old dashboard. The swoopy one that came around 87/88 is just sooo much nicer.
Realistically neither. Both are just old rusty sedans to me.
The 5000 is a nicer car, with less miles, for less money so it wins in a world where these are the only 2 cars for sale.
The 5000 is nicer, has a turbo, has a stick, and is pictured next to another Audi. Easy win.
When I bought my GT, back in the last century; my Dad took me to meetup with the seller. I told him, if this guy shows up in another GT I’m buying this car. Low and behold; the seller drove up in a one-year newer GT with a 5speed instead of the auto. So I bought the car.
5000, easy! Sure, it’s more complicated, but it’s still pretty simple, compared to something from this century.
This is a no brainer. The iconic 5 cylinder coupled to a manual? Yes! And turbocharged? Double yes!! That’ll be enough to overlook the lack of Quattro. Those are probably far more expensive and needing more in the way of maintenance.