Before you say anything: this is a weird matchup. I know. One is a bona-fide Italian classic, and the other is a jumped-up American economy car. They don’t seem to go together. And I’m betting that a lot of you already think you know which one you want. But, as always, the devil is in the details, and after looking at both of them, you may change your mind.
Yesterday was a weird matchup too, but who says I have to always choose two cars that go together? The only rules here, as far as I can tell, are “keep David happy” and “do the SEO stuff that Peter asks for so he doesn’t have to.” So if I want to compare a Lexus luxury coupe with a featherweight Honda hybrid, I’m going to do so.
It probably comes down to what you want out of a car, but the vast majority of you voted for the Lexus, and I can’t blame you. I think that would be my choice, too. The seller seems to really care about it, and they’re honest about the reason for the rebuilt title. And it’s a really nice car.
Today’s matchup is one of those that looks closer on paper than it is when you actually look at the cars. They’re both 2+2 hatchbacks, they’re both manual transmissions, they’re both fuel-injected, and neither one has air conditioning. But no one in their right mind looks at these two cars and sees them as equals in any way. Luckily, I’m not often in my right mind, so putting them together makes perfect sense to me. Let’s take a look.
1977 Alfa Romeo Alfetta GT – $3,500
Engine/drivetrain: 2.0-liter DOHC inline 4, five-speed manual, RWD
Location: Langley, WA
Odometer reading: 33,000 miles
Operational status: “Runs and moves under its own power but is not road worthy”
If you listen to what Jeremy Clarkson says, you aren’t a real car enthusiast until you’ve owned an Alfa Romeo. The Italian firm’s cars are legendarily fun to drive, and notoriously unreliable, so living with one is supposed to make you appreciate both a good driver’s car by its own example, and a reliable car by comparing it to everything else. But is that really necessary? Does suffering really build character, or is that just some bullshit your dad told you when you went on a camping trip and it started to rain? I just rid myself of a beautiful, unreliable British car, and I don’t feel like I learned anything from the experience other than “don’t buy British cars.” Do I really need to suffer through an Alfa too, just to prove myself worthy?
Were I not a recent veteran of MG ownership, I probably would really want this car, though. The Alfetta is the epitome of the classic Alfa experience, with a twin-cam four-cylinder engine, a rear-mounted transaxle, and a fancy DeDion rear suspension. US model Alfettas came with SPICA mechanical fuel injection, to improve emissions, and while some cars have had the system removed and replaced with carbs, this one is still intact. The seller says it starts and runs, but needs some tuning. The brakes also need bleeding, and the tires are old. In other words, bring a trailer.
The Alfetta’s instrument panel is unusual: the tachometer is directly in front of the driver, but the speedometer and other gauges are in a separate panel in the center. In other words, you can watch the tach needle swing to the right in concert with that wonderful Alfa engine noise, while your passenger can watch the speedometer climb and wonder if maybe you shouldn’t slow down a little. This one needs some work inside, or at least some carpet and a center console. The seats don’t look too bad, and if that cover has been on the dash all along, it probably isn’t cracked underneath. And if it is, you can just leave the cover on.
Like all Italian cars from the 1970s, it has some rust on it, covered up in black primer that I presume is some sort of rust converter. In my experience, that stuff doesn’t work nearly as well as you want it to, but at least it’s something. I’ve heard people joke that these cars started rusting on the boat on the way over to the US, which sounds like hyperbole, but it wouldn’t surprise me. I’ve seen a lot rustier Alfas being sold for more money than this, though. You can confidently lie to yourself and say “it’s not that bad.”
1992 Plymouth Sundance Duster – $2,300
Engine/drivetrain: 3.0-liter OHC V6, five-speed manual, FWD
Location: Portland, OR
Odometer reading: 96,000 miles
Operational status: Runs and drives great
The original Plymouth Duster was a two-door coupe based on the Valiant, introduced in 1970 as a cheaper alternative to the Barracuda, which had grown larger and more powerful for 1970. After the Duster bodystyle died out in 1976, the name lived on, first on the Volare, then on the Turismo, and finally on this car, the Sundance. Like the original, the idea here is having fun on a budget. This car isn’t pretending to be anything it’s not.
The most celebrated versions of the original Duster had larger engines with more power, and Plymouth revived that idea for the Sundance Duster. This car is powered by the same 3.0 liter Mitsubishi V6 used in Chrysler minivans of the day, but with a five-speed manual transmission in place of the automatic found in the vans. It’s a good setup for this car, a little less powerful than the turbocharged four-cylinder versions, but less hassle, too. This one is still under 100,000 miles, and it runs great. It just passed Oregon’s DEQ emissions inspection, too.
The interior is exactly what you would expect: gray plastic, and lots of it. But it’s functional, and the seats are comfortable. It’s in good condition overall, but there are a few flaws, like a burn mark on the driver’s seat and wood screws holding down the gearshift boot. The Duster package, no matter what generation, was always about being sporty on a budget, and as such, this car is missing some equipment you might expect – like air conditioning. But at least it has those flip-open rear quarter windows.
Outside, it’s faded, and the clearcoat is gone, but it’s rust- and damage-free. I thought the Duster package came with alloy wheels, but either I was wrong or this one lost them somewhere along the way. Nothing wrong with black steelies, though. It does come with wheel covers if you want to put them on, but I assume they’re some sort of ugly silver plastic junk from Walmart.
So that’s your choice for today: On one hand, you have a rough example of a legendary marque, and on the other, a pretty nice example of a scrappy bargain performance car. Are you willing to put in the work to bring the Alfa back up to snuff, or would you rather just have fun in the Plymouth?
This is more about whether you are looking for a car as basic transportation or one is in some ways desirable.
The Sundance will provide a much better chance of going from A to B, but it was built as a penalty box piece of junk when new, and age hasn’t improved it.
I’ve driven both, and need the Alfa, warts and all.
The SPICA can be troublesome, but also can be made to work properly. Rust is never good.
But it’s an Alfa. The Alfettas with the Busso V6 were faster, but IMO the original is prettier and a little better balanced. Sweet as the Busso sounds, the twincam “four” sings beautifully, too. The chassis is about as good as it gets.
So this is obviously my emotional choice. I’d take it in preference to almost anything.
I’ve always wanted an Alfa, and a Citroën. But I’m old enough to know that I’m not going to get that lovely Alfa back into shape on my own, let alone get it to pass CA smog, so I guess I’ll take that Plymouth.
The Plymouth and its Dodge brother were pretty common cars were pretty common in my high school and university days. Sure that was 20 to 30 years ago now but they held up to the abuse of teens and young adults pretty well and I always thought they were decent looking for the time. Plus it should be a lot easier to work on than the other choice so it was an easy vote for me.
See, I don’t disagree with your sentiment – I’ve never been ashamed of nostalgic thoughts – but the logic here…ehhhhh. I can’t remember the last time I actually saw a Sundance, while there’s still plenty of 3rd and 4th gen F-Bodies and Foxes and SN95s running around here, which were the sporty school cars where I grew up. I don’t know if those cars actually did survive High School and College, or if they did they died shortly after.
Salt got to them all around here. RWD cars are more likely to get kept off the road in the winter in my area so some survived because of that.
There are only a few 90s economy cars still driving around my area and I can’t remember the last time I saw one of these. But on an average day I see maybe 5 90s economy cars so I don’t feel like the lack of these is especially damning.
That’s probably true, as well as a few of these probably ended up being traded for Ford Explorers when people got married, got sold at auction to a sleazy dealer on the bad side of town and then ended their automotive lives rusting to dust in the hands of people who had other worries and didn’t care for them. End of car life is depressing when you stop and think about it.
The unmovable mass in the driveway may as well be an Alfa.
I have to go Alfa. Not because it is any better than the Plymouth, but the Plymouth is a car that should’ve come with A/C but didn’t, and has no excuse because it’s not a race car. The Alfa is from the ’70s, so gets a pass. Besides, while Clarkson is an exotic European car enthusiast with some farmland, and shouldn’t really be listened to, Tom Maglozzi, a Bostonian car mechanic who along with his brother gave sound-ish car advice on NPR for decades, owned a Fiat roadster and a ’64 Dodge Dart Rustbucket. Neither of which was particularly reliable. Sometimes even the sensible need to live a little.
I used to love Click and Clack. Those guys were awesome!
Votes were tied before I got here. It’s an illogical, but seemingly fair matchup today.
Ha, it was tied again with me being the 132nd vote for the Alfa while the Plymouth had 132 votes.
Staying tuned to see how even the matchup turns out to be in the final tally.
I used an old Dodge Caravan at a long-ago job and it had the same Mitsu V6, the one you can grill burgers on the intake manifold. That motor could spin the front tires half-way down the block, and that van beat a lot of cars it had no business beating.
So I’ll take the Mopar, since with a stick and a lighter body this should be quite quick.
My first car was one of these with an auto and it had no business being that powerful. I’m sure a stick is even better.
I’d love both to be honest. But that drive to Langley for the alfa would be fantastic, even towing a trailer. I still remember going there as a kid, that whole area on Whidbey is full of twisty beautiful roads.
Hoo-boy. That Alfa sings it’s siren song, but the rust makes it out of tune.
I’ll dance in the sun to the tune of the not rusty Duster.
I refuse to ever say that Jeremy Clarkson was right about anything, but I will take the Alfa.
I get Italian cars are intimidating, but there isn’t that much to Alfas of this era, really. It’s just a 4 cylinder. Spend a little bit to get it mechanically taken care of and just drive it. Yes, it’s going to be more work than the Plymouth but it’s not like you’re keeping a V12 Ferrari on the road or anything. I don’t see why an average enthusiast couldn’t keep it going.
No carb here.
I know, I edited my comment after I realized.
Well somehow I didn’t see that edit haha. I agree with you though, it really isn’t that special of a car, and shouldn’t be that hard to keep going.
Oh look, an Alfa with wires dangling under the dash.
Only thirty-three thousand miles and the Alfa looks like that? The wiring disaster, the clear signs of rust repair (and implication that there’s more rust hiding), the ’70s-era fuel injection that ‘needs work’?
Versus a smoked-in Iacocca-era ‘Duster’ that was a warmed over K-car trading on past glory of a name (see: ’80s Charger and Challenger)? The Mitsubishi V6 isn’t the worst engine ever, but about the only thing it does quite well is provide a very non-environmentally sound way to dispose of used engine oil, because they had a tendency to burn or leak oil.
I see what this is. It’s ‘choose the K-car day’ of the week. Fine. But I already disposed of my used motor oil at the hazardous waste depot.
Italian car miles are like dog years. 7:1 ratio.
The inverse of Toyota.
100%. My Spider has like 60k miles and the bottom 4″ is missing all around it.
My very first car was a ’93 Plymouth Sundance Duster with the 3.0L V6. I really miss that car, and I would 100% get another if I found one in decent shape near me. They are surprisingly quick with that V6 (and the fact they weigh basically nothing). Plenty of room for a decent car audio setup, too.
Same. Green/gold with flip up sunroof and alloys. I loved it so much.
Sometime in the early 90’s I looked at 2 used similarly-green cars. A 91 Civic LX hatchback and a Shadow ES with the V-6 and then-trendy gold trim. I picked the Civic, which was probably the better choice, but I never particularly loved that car and didn’t buy another Honda again until just this year.
It was the right choice. I loved my car but it was a 90s Chrysler and there was always some little thing being weird. The a/c lasted like 3 years, some fuel pump relay would intermittently die and leave me with a crank-no-start condition, the Ultradrive transmission was never fully right, by year 7 it was blowing oil out of all the gaskets, etc etc
Here are some words I NEVER thought I would write with a straight face: I’ll have the Plymouth, please.
I want to get there, I want to get there today, I want to not be on fire when I arrive. Stylish it is not, but it is far more likely to start and run on any given day. A small amount of work can bring the Plymouth to a far higher standard than a greater amount of work on the Alfa and while the standard of the Plymouth won’t be as impressive as the Alfa even in its current state, it will probably hold together better, longer, for less money.
Where the Duster rewards even grudging attention; the Alfa demands your fawning obeisance.
The Duster will also smoke the Alfa in most practical situations.
Well yeah, it’s hard to haul ass when you’re on a rollback.
Psh, the Alfa will smoke anything! Quite literally, with the wiring nightmare, and the numerous oil leaks it’s bound to have, it could light on fire at any moment!
“If you listen to what Jeremy Clarkson says, you aren’t a real car enthusiast until you’ve owned an Alfa Romeo.”
A: While he can be entertaining, please do not take advice from Jeremy Clarkson.
B: This is gatekeeping. Enthusiasts can do better than perpetuating that.
Also, the answer here is OBVIOUSLY the Duster.
It’s a ponycar!
And most importantly, it’s going to be way easier to keep on the road than the Alfa, for a lot less money. And less rust.
The first person to tell you not to take automotive advice from Jeremy Clarkson would be Jeremy Clarkson.
I find Clarkson’s opinion particularly odd given Alfa’s current lineup. You can daily drive a Veyron, restore a Stutz Bearcat using parts you forged by hand, spend every weekend lapping a Miata around a racetrack, and rebuild engines in your living room, but you aren’t a car enthusiast because you don’t own an Alfa.
But if some doofus buys a Tonale, he qualifies.
It wouldn’t be my only car, so give me the interesting Alfa. I have friends that can help, that may or may not stay friends…
As the former owner of a red ’86 GTV6, Alfa all the way for me over yet another crappy K-car decendent. Friend of mine in college had a Duster, it was crap then, and I can’t imagine 30-odd years has improved it any. At least the Alfa is interesting and a bit of legit automotive history.
I admire your optimism that the dash isn’t cracked under that toupee though. ROFL.
My GTV6 was so pretty, a great drive, and Clarkson was 110% right about the engine, but the twin-cam in the Alfetta is no slouch either, having also owned an ’86 Spider with that engine, albeit with Bosch fuel-injection, not Spica.
Preeety car (and 100% rust-free):
https://www.flickr.com/photos/10764510@N05/albums/72157624268860962
The wires hanging under the dash of the Alfetta give me the chills. Also, are the head restraint supports made of wood, or are they rusty?
Wood, and one of the cooler parts of the car. They are actually cranked up and down with a knob. My GTV6 had the same, but in leather.
https://flic.kr/p/8aaiPW
It’s not that Clarkson is right but Itallian machines are different in a way that is difficult to describe. I owned two Ducati’s at one point and there’s just something different about them. Almost as if they have a soul. Mine were also reliable but while they always started it was always a mystery of how they were going to run in any given day.
At any rate, I’ll take the Alfa. Life’s too short to not have some excitement and mystery.
Agreed, and I think it’s one of those things you either get or you don’t.
French cars are much the same, in an entirely different way.
If I had a guess I’d wager that French cars are more of a ‘I’ll run when I want to and do what I want when I want’ kind of vibe.
LOL – having owned a number of both you are not wrong. You quickly learn the “Gallic shrug”.
Is it the journey or is it the destination? Romantic me says the journey. Rational me says drive a Toyota and get to the destination without drama. Romantic me says where the fuck is the fun in that? Give me the Alfa and I will of course fiend at least double the cost getting it running. Fixing the rust. Redoing the interior s as nd when I’m done it will still be: will it start today? Nothing says you are alive more than a dose of car chaos
Not fiend Spend. But fiend is kinda ok too
I’ve had a pair of Vespas. Definitely soulful.
Also not the sort of thing you want to get you home without a lifeline.
As a former Sundance owner, I can tell you the rear quarter windows do NOT in fact flip open. They are fixed. I always thought they should, but they don’t.
Also as the top trim of the Sundance line (it replaced the RS) I’m not sure you could even get it without air conditioning, so it might just be that it’s broken.
Looking at photos it seems that some don’t and some do have the tell tale dot indicating that the rears do pop out.
Mine had the dot but it was a fixed mounting point. It was how the glass was held on, there was no latch.
I’ll take the Duster. I’d rather drive than fight that rats nest of Italian wiring hanging under the dash.
Do you really think they waited until they were on the boat? They probably started to rust before they even left the factory.
The Duster isn’t even a hatchback.
It’s like calling claiming that Jaffa Cakes are cookies/biscuits.
I know for a fact that you can fit a full-size futon frame (taken apart) and mattress (rolled up) in one and still close the hatch.
Except for the convertibles, they are indeed hatchbacks. I voted for this because of the engine/trans combination. It was a smooth (but rare) powertrain in its day and could be reasonably fun. Leave it as-is, or junkyard suspension and interior upgrades are easy add-ons.
I am here to say you are allowed to vote for the Duster over the Alfa and still love and respect yourself.
Too true. There is absolutely nothing wrong with making the prudent, responsible choice.
On a completely unrelated note, can you pick me up? I need a ride. Why? Oh, no reason…