Why Cars & Bids Just Had To Shut Down A ‘Train Wreck’ Of An Auction

While just about anyone can sell a used car, selling a used car to enthusiasts is hard. They know their stuff, are aware of what to look for, and will not hesitate to call out any obvious major issues. It’s best to meet these knowledgable consumers where they are, but that doesn’t always happen. Sometimes a seller ends up being less-than-forthcoming and disrespectful. Case in point: A 2001 Toyota Altezza, the JDM equivalent of the Lexus IS 300, was up for auction on Cars & Bids and it went very poorly.

Right off the rip, there seems to be an obvious problem here, namely that passenger vehicles that don’t comply with Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards are only eligible to sail into the country once they turn 25, at least for the time being. While this Altezza’s 2001 date of manufacture was a while ago, it’s not quite a quarter-century ago. Decoding the chassis plate, all signs point toward this thing rolling off the line in April of 2001, meaning it’s still eight months away from being eligible for U.S. import under the 25-year rule.

For a vehicle less than 25 years old that someone’s seeking to bring to America, its eligibility must be petitioned to the U.S. government by a registered importer, and that petition is then published to the federal register. Once that happens, importation with modifications for federal compliance would have to be approved by NHTSA, and if that happens, the year, make and model would be listed in a publicly-available NHTSA spreadsheet. Currently, the Toyota Altezza doesn’t appear on the most recently published version of that spreadsheet, so it’s understandable that some Cars & Bids commenters questioned how the vehicle reached America. As one commenter asked:

Alright seller please explain how you got it here legally under the 25 year law. Was it brought into compliance with US laws? If so, what modifications did you make and where’s the paperwork for that? It’s certainly not on the show and display exemption list.

While it should’ve been theoretically easy to provide an explanation as that’s a fairly reasonable ask, the seller simply said that a state title is proof of legality:

The 25-year rule does apply, but that is only one pathway. Vehicles newer than 25 years can still be legally imported if brought into compliance through the proper process. That’s exactly what was done here. If the car were not in compliance, CBP [U.S. Customs and Border Protection] would not have cleared it, and the DMV would not have issued a valid U.S. title.

I don’t release my importer’s information — that’s proprietary — but I can provide proof of the U.S. title in my name. That is the only document you need in order to register and drive this vehicle in any state.

RoRo was just the shipping method, not a loophole. The fact that the car cleared Customs and was titled in the U.S. is the proof of its legality.

Here’s the thing: Plenty of vehicles under 25 years of age are imported under Show and Display, the Substantially Similar Clause that allows cars virtually identical to U.S.-spec models in both construction and powertrain in (such as those from Canada), or through a registered importer making genuine compliance modifications illegally end up in America — but a state title doesn’t guarantee you’ll be able to retitle a car in a different state. Add in how this Altezza is being sold from Florida with a Virginia title and Virginia plates, and plenty of questions still abound.

It feels reasonable to expect that if this Toyota were imported legally through a registered importer with the gauntlet of modifications needed to make a right-hand-drive chassis and a never-sold-in-America 1G-FE straight-six both NHTSA-legal and EPA-legal, there would be a paper trail the seller could be forthcoming about and post. If that happened, it would only help the value of the car, but the only document the seller was willing to share on the platform was the state title.

Then, they decided to reply rather rudely in the comments. In a now-deleted comment, the seller responded to a commenter asking for proof of the Altezza’s legality with “you’re still here i see lmao you’re boyfriend just broke up with me i suggest you do the same” which seems both vaguely homophobic and in syntax only previously seen from edgy 12-year-olds in “Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare” Xbox Live chats.

While the above comments were removed, reasonable pressure on the seller continued, and this individual seemed really easy to rile up just by asking for the sort of proof a sensible buyer expects to be posted. When a commenter who offered to bid on the car contingent on proof of legality shared the list of sub-25-year-old cars that can be imported and modified to be legal, and pointed out that the Altezza wasn’t on it, the seller responded with “just stick around and hack everyones bidding up you’re good at this my guy,” followed by “keep that strong 4 figure bid in hand lol you know what you doing ????”

A bit more back-and-forth with that same commenter later, and the seller started attacking the commenter’s credibility. A comment like “you are in EVERY auction trolling and bidding on absolutely NOTHING! you have 0 wins please remove yourself” is not constructive, but evidence of paperwork would be.

Then, when that commenter shared a link to a story about illegally imported cars receiving state titles and why a state title isn’t proof alone that a car is legal, the seller replied “OMG please go !” What kind of a response is that?

Understandably, after a day or so of bidding, Cars & Bids noticed that things were getting ugly and decided to cancel the auction, providing the following response in the comment section:

Hello all! In order to ensure a smooth and positive auction experience, we have decided to cancel this auction.

We have asked the seller to provide the import paperwork and/or other evidence of this Altezza’s build date; if they are able to and this Altezza is legally in the U.S., we will work with them to relist the auction.

Thank you for your understanding. As always, we appreciate all of the engagement, feedback, and perspectives.

While this debacle may be over for now, that statement doesn’t answer questions on how an imported car that doesn’t appear to be at least 25 years old and therefore may not be legal in America ended up on the auction platform. We reached out to Cars & Bids founder and friend-of-The Autopian Doug DeMuro for a statement on the whole situation, and here it is:

The Cars & Bids community rocks! We love our people, and they identified some possible issues here — which is a huge benefit of having an auction comment section. Although we were working with the seller to try and determine the car’s legal status, that became irrelevant as the seller’s attitude progressed. Whether the car is legal or not, bad behavior has no place on Cars & Bids!

I do have to wonder: Why list it in the first place if there’s any ambiguity about the car’s status? When you build a community on the premise of offering a better way to buy and sell used cars, you’d think safeguards should be in place to offer a better experience than the normal used car classifieds. Between the unclear legality of the car and the seller’s behavior, this whole thing was a “train wreck,” as commenter bforbesut — who took the brunt of the seller’s rudeness — put it. To Cars & Bids’ credit, at least it listened and shut the whole thing down before things got worse.

Top graphic image: Cars & Bids

Support our mission of championing car culture by becoming an Official Autopian Member.