Twelve years ago, I got my dream job on the engineering team of the only new Jeep that really matters anymore: The Wrangler. I was a 21-year-old recent college graduate attending meetings I had already attended before in my dreams, the most memorable of which involved an old-timer (and my friend) Jim Repp defending the Jeep’s solid-axle heritage from a suspension engineer who was missing the forest for the trees in an effort to meet his dynamic handling goals. Two years after my 2015 departure from Chrysler to become a car journalist, I had the rare privilege of being one of the first to review a product I had helped develop. But as much as I loved the new JL Wrangler, it’s now eight years since the launch, and I still don’t own one. That’s going to change soon; here’s why.
The obvious answer is: It’s the only vehicle whose engineering I had a significant hand in (I was in charge of cooling system design). But there’s a good reason why I haven’t plunked down the cold, hard cash yet for a Wrangler, and that’s because, for the longest time, I’ve believed that the Wrangler is not a vehicle worth buying new, or even new-ish.
I’ve said it before: Off-road capability has not increased much since American Bantam showed off what would become the World War II Jeep back in 1940. Yes, you read that right: If you were to take a World War II Jeep and put it in an off-road comparison with a base Jeep Wrangler, you’d be shocked by how well the World War II Jeep does. And sure, the Rubicon model with lockers would leave the World War II Jeep in its dust in plenty of scenarios, but as a platform, the World War II Jeep is arguably just as good due to its combination of low center of gravity (thank you Go-Devil flathead motor!), short wheelbase, narrow track, flexy frame, and decent overall geometry. Install a few lockers into the WW2 Jeep’s diffs (if you want shorter gearing, grab a CJ-2A for those 5.38s), chuck on some 31-inch all-terrains and that thing will go toe-to-toe with a modern Wrangler Rubicon. And even if it’s still a bit shy of the Rubicon, the fact that it’s in the same ballpark is remarkable when you consider how far in the dust a 1940s sports car would be left when raced against a modern sports car.
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This is one of the reasons why I’ve foregone buying a new Wrangler. I already own a CJ-3B and a Jeep Wrangler YJ, both of which are plenty off-road capable. I just haven’t seen the advantage to buying a modern off-roader, and that became doubly true when I bought my BMW i3 daily-driver; the refinement upgrades of the modern Wrangler over my old Jeeps just aren’t that valuable since I already have a daily.
Why would I spend $30 grand on a new Wrangler when I can get similar off-road capability for a quarter of the price? And why would I want to off-road a vehicle so valuable? I’m just going to damage it. To me, especially since I can easily keep an older car on the road with my own tools, there’s really no point in spending a bunch of money on an off-road vehicle. At least, there wasn’t. But now things have changed.
Since the launch of my son Delmar (Not His Real Name), I’ve begun thinking about my old vehicles differently. My Wrangler and CJ are vehicles that I know I cannot reasonably use to daily-drive my child around. They’re deathtraps. Maybe I can give Delmar a ride around town every now and then, but that’s about all I’m comfortable doing.
This means that, if I ever want to take my son on the freeway (which is what LA people call “the highway,” which you basically have to use to get anywhere around here), I have to take my i3. And look, I love my i3, but what’s the point of having a bunch of other cars I can barely drive? Whereas before I drove my old cars all the time, I now have a human barnacle attached to me pretty much 24/7, rendering most of my vehicles as just toys. It’s fine to have toys, but it’s harder to justify having seven of them than it is to justify having maybe one toy (the Willys, whose max cruising speed is 45 mph) and six potential daily-drivers for single-David.
Basically, with the birth of my child, all my classics have now become toys.
This is where a new Jeep Wrangler becomes appealing. For the past four months now, anytime my wife and I have gone somewhere with Delmar we’ve taken her car, the Lexus RX (yes, the i3 could work, too but it’s a bit small for his infant car seat). For the foreseeable future, I see myself having to drive that Lexus all the time except for when I commute to work. This isn’t ideal.
I think the Lexus is a great car at fulfilling its intended purpose (be safe, be comfortable, work reliably, keep the BS to a minimum), but it’s not me. And right now, the only time I get to drive a me-car is when I’m in traffic heading to work three times a week, or when I want to do a solo drive to the grocery store in one of my now-toy cars.
I want a fun car I can drive everywhere, with wife and child. I’m tired of the Lexus.
The answer, at some point, will probably be the Scout Traveler since I love the efficiency and ease of maintenance of an EREV, but I cannot drop 50 grand on a car. Delmar’s college fund — and just being able to live here in LA, period — is more important than having the latest-and-greatest machine to drive around in. Plus, I knew that, at some point, I would be buying a new Jeep Wrangler, as I was on the engineering team. Now seems like the right time.
It will allow me to drive around in a car that I genuinely love, daily, while keeping baby-Delmar and Elise significantly safer than if I drove them around in my old Wrangler YJ.
The only issue is that the JL Wrangler I want is basically hen’s teeth. I want one of the few 2024 four-door models made with the old JL grille (as I understand, Jeep had some kind of shortage of the new grilles, so they kept using the old ones for a few months on Sport and Sport S trims), but with a stickshift (and Jeep did a stop-sale on stickshifts that year due to clutch issues). I find the new grille to be hideous, I like the 2024+ interior, and I like that the 2024+ models have safer rear restraint systems, per IIHS.
Finding a 2024 four-door with a stick and the old grille will be incredibly tough, but I’m in no rush. I’m grateful we have my wife’s Lexus, and of course, I’m grateful to have my old Jeeps too. I also understand that not everyone has the privilege to drive their kids around in modern cars, so even being able to have this discussion is something I’m grateful for.
My search will start in about a year, when 2024 Wranglers start coming off lease. This strategy helped me find my Holy Grail BMW i3 (in 2024, just as three-year leases were ending; finding highly-optioned BMW i3s has since become borderline impossible). Hopefully 2024 models will depreciate a bit more, as four-doors are commanding almost $40 grand now, and that’s way too expensive for my blood. I might have to just buy a 2019 or 2020 model (in which case, maybe I just go with the Rubicon like the one above), or wait a bit longer so I can keep the costs down. Either way, some of my old Jeeps are going to have to go.
Top graphic image: David Tracy
It is very on-brand for David to only want the single hardest-to-find variant of a vehicle!
Maybe we could find a descriptor for that kind of vehicle. How about “sacred chalice?” Or maybe “consecrated messianic cup?”
I have a 24 JL 4XE and infant car seats barely fit the car with the front seats moved a little too forward, and that means if my wife is driving I usually end up next to the baby in the back seat. JL’s ride quality while sitting in front is acceptable, but sitting in the back I’m surprised my kid hasn’t puked more often. With the solid axle right below your butt you are thrown around with every bump on the road, the non-adjustable seatbelt is too high at the shoulder, and the seatback is too upright.
It was a great car when it was just me and my wife and we were taking this to ski trips all winter, but now that I’ve spent some time in the back I’d never consider anything without an independent rear suspension for our next family car.
A 1998 Jeep Wrangler saved my ass, and my friend’s in a head on collision (not my fault). Not sure how I feel about the newer ones, I only drove a few miles in a 2023 auto 4-door.
I’ll check back to see if this happens, but I suspect an Angeleno with a young family, a good head on their shoulders, and two years to think about it will talk themselves down to something more practical with 95%+ of the capability of the Wrangler.
After fourteen years I convinced the wife to call our children ‘inmates’ as they’re the reason for the time/money prison we gladly built but I don’t think ‘barnacle’ would fly :).
Inmates, they are the jailers my friend. At best you are operating a “Club Fed”
IF you are going to buy any JL and it has to be a manual, buy a ’24+ Willys or a Rubicon. 3.45s and a 6spd are pure misery 100% of the time. You might see 6th gear for 12 seconds if you have enough road and clear traffic to reach 80mph. First slight hill, you’re going back to 5th. The Willys and Rubicon both come with 4.10s and are definitely geared better than the rest of them.
you were fresh out of university. worked there 2 years. you were in charge of engine cooling?
The sense that I have gotten from reading/listening to David over the years (apologies in advance if I’m really botching this) is that early 2010’s Chrysler was not a particularly well-organized place, and that there were lots of vacancies in the org resulting from much of their old guard/subject matter experts retiring post-2008.
It sounds like a bit of a stretch to my non-engineer mind as well. But if there was a time and place for someone with sufficient ability and drive to make a quick rise up a couple of levels at a legacy automaker, it feels like that probably was it.
Exactly right. Engineers took buyouts, and Fiat was restructuring the whole place, hiring young talent like crazy.
When I arrived in 2013 I was the lead engineer on the Jeep Wrangler’s cooling system design (System Integration Responsible, SIR). I had no clue what I was doing at first, but my job was to figure it out, because the old-timers who had been doing it for years were gone, and they hadn’t written down any processes.
So, and I kid you not, my job was to co-write the corporate process for cooling system design. “But where did the knowledge from the last 90 years go?”I asked.
“It’s gone. Figure it out.”
It was truly nuts, but also a great experience, and JLs aren’t overheating, so I’m happy! Is it the most efficient design? No. But robust? Yep!
Thank you, David, you’ve given me some hope.
I’m 41, been a stay at home Dad for 7 years now and finally ready to get back to work.
But I’m scared and anxious, it’s been so long, my field moves along without me, I figure I’m ignorant and won’t be able to figure heads or tails. No one will hire me, etc.
But to know that you can just jump in and figure it out, with no prior knowledge is a confidence boost for me. I know I’m not dumb, I figure things out all the time, I don’t need to be so anxious about the entire thing.
Anyway, point is: thanks. Honestly, it’s good to hear these success stories.
Doesnt have to have the old grille. It is an easy swap. Folks with the ’19-23’s swap to the new one all the time. There are even companies out there that will sell you one already paint matched for a few hundred bucks.
meep
I am eagerly waiting for the day to replace my 2014 willys wheeler jk unlimited. i like the JL but the prices arent going to be in the range im looking to pay. 2013/2018 window is my sweet spot. Most important option is factory half doors. It was what drew me to mine in the first place after the 2 yr only amp’d color. also i’d prefer a 6spd. we lost mine in a minor fender bender that could have been worse. inexperienced driver turned left. had the kids with me and got whoa’d down to 15mph before the impact. my then 10 month old never even cried, my 5 year old was more worried about if “wilbur” our jeep was okay. the jeep ended up totaled from the accident due to the accident bending the frame. the body shop guy said the impact was on the very end of the frame in the worst possible place. prolly the 3rd or 4th time hes seen it with a JK. when we were in target replacing our car seats, the associate told a nearly identical story that totaled her 2016 jk unlimited from a front corner side impact by a mustang.
Wait until you start car shopping for Delmar (NHRN) in 15 years or so. 16 year old me would’ve driven something that would crumple like an accordion (and, in fact did some really STUPID thing with my first car). Dad me will not let the kid get into a golf cart that seems so common in Florida these days as neighborhood vehicles.
Hopefully, teen driving statistics improve before then, but if you think you’re picky now about what you want, wait until then, because now, those stats are absolutely terrifying. I’m about 6 months out from learner’s permit-land and have started perusing now to get an idea what’s the safest thing out there. Thankfully, the teen cars lists by IIHS/CR is a good starting spot.
“what’s the point of having a bunch of other cars I can barely drive?”
You hit the nail on the head right there.
I [somewhat] reluctantly took a 2021 Wrangler on a ~1600 mile road trip earlier this year, and was amazed. It handled great, and was surprisingly comfortable for long stretches. I had no problems packing it, and the gas mileage wasn’t nearly as bad as I was expecting. The interior is just modern enough to suit my tastes, too.
And yet when I tell people what I drove, quite a few (even non-Jeep ones) will hold their arms straight out and wiggle them in an imitation of death wobble. That’s some kind of reputation there. :/
Here we go again
But are the current Pentastar engines in them as steaming hot garbage as I’ve read? Cam follower issues and valvetrain noise leading to cam failure are far more common than it should be from what I’ve seen.
Pentastars are pretty good post-2012.
They did get better, but they’re still not a particularly reliable engine.
They’re Jeeps. What are you doing talking about reliability.
Eh, there are still widespread examples of the Gen-2 Pentastar having major valvetrain problems that results in metal being run through the engine. It definitely still has unresolved problems.
The 2018+ pentastars eat the passenger intake cam lobes. Jeep appears to have fixed that for 2025, and has released an updated kit to retrofit into the older ones if/when it fails.
I hope you’re right, but with Jeep I’ll believe it when I see it.
Oh man! You’re going through what I went through, only sans trauma. I got in a BAD wreck in 2016 in an old K10. First kid a few days before 2019 ended (yeah, that was fun). Classic cars (prior to said wreck, the only cars I owned) became a very iffy proposition. I spent a LOT of time trying to suss out what a car enthusiast does with the modern landscape. Got very philosophical about it. Reassessed core definitions of things like “truck”. Then the WFH paradigm shift was a whole new… paradigm. I think I’ve landed on the perfect solution, and made some wild discoveries along the way. I hope you engage in some serious navel gazing over this one, and share some addled thoughts along the way.
Don’t leave us hanging… What’s your perfect solution?
Walking
This is going to be a LONG comment, but I’ll try to keep it somewhat brief relative to the subject matter. I spent a lot of time debating with myself what a “truck” is, what a car must do, the nature of an enthusiast car, etc. A lot of the matrix has now been seen. Can’t really go into that side.
I used to have a classic truck, a classic sports car, and the wife’s daily. We live in the mountains above Denver, so have certain terrain and weather issues to contend with, as well as ideal canyon roads between us and every imaginable end point. The classics needed to go and get safety features. Also car seats. That means 2004+. Right as things get REALLY boring and SUV-carcinized.
First off, a sports car of some sort is mandatory. The ability to handle family is also pretty mandatory. 4 seat sports cars mostly means sporty GT. Also needed to have something interesting about it (I’m an engineer, so “interesting” has a bit of baggage). I used to have an old RX-7, and LOVED the engine, so an RX-8 was of acute interest. Reliability problems aren’t a good thing, so the S-2s were top of list (Mazda solved pretty much all the RX-8s issues in a massive redesign starting with the 09 model year). The RX-8 is the car world’s biggest blunder; no one understands what it is (sporty GT, not a tuner car; not another RX-7 generation). Once you get what it is, you realize it’s borderline perfection. As a major surprise bonus, the suicide doors make the back seats very usable. My wife and I are both pretty short (I’m 5’5″, she’s 5’4″), and that means the whole family fits fairly comfortably. It’s EASIER to get the kids into the RX-8 than the 4-door Jeep. Didn’t expect that when we bought it, but huge surprise plus. 5yo daughter’s favorite car.
I have a 100 year old house up here, and it needs a lot of attention. Plus mountains generally. So a truck is a must. Only I realized during the pandemic that a right-size trailer can check that box. The Jeep can tow 3500#, and most trucks have at best half that for payload rating. We found a ’51 Ford F1 truck bed trailer, and that does what we need behind the Jeep with aplomb.
Wife’s Jeep is her dream car. Bought it new in 2016. Probably the most reliable since I’ve maintained it since new. I just built it (lift, etc.), and it’s got a vibration I’m tracking down, but once that’s sorted it’ll be the SUV people and thing hauler. It’s our camping, off road, when winter gets really bad, etc. vehicle.
The last is my DD. It started as a 535xi wagon (which was totaled when a building collapsed on it), and I realized I don’t even need a wagon when I have the Jeep and the trailer. That turned into an E550. Bought it with a transferred Carmax warranty, which I promptly DeMuroed fixing all the little things that come with age and neglect from non-car people. The air suspension is pretty freaking sweet, and I can lift the car up for the unpaved roads we have up here on occasion, or when the snow gets deep, or drop it down low for highway cruising. It’s quiet and comfortable, and the massaging seats are something I’ve come to really like (almost didn’t buy the car because of them, as I didn’t want to have to maintain them). The NA port injected V8 should be just about bulletproof, and that much engine in that little car is anything but stressed while giving me every bit of grunt I could want. It has a very quiet exhaust, that whispers its V8 muscle rather than screams it. And when you park and shut it down, the air suspension snorts like an angry bull to let you know it’s not to be f’d with. Clear and low key mean and aggressive without being a look-at-me boi racer asshat. After a hard day’s work, when I’m tired and don’t want to bounce around in the Jeep or wrestle the RX-8 through the canyons, it’s the answer. It’s debadged and very stock looking save for a small carbon fiber spoiler from the PO that I haven’t fully committed to removing, so it mostly doesn’t stand out in any way. But press a few buttons on the center console, and it’ll get out of its own way in a hurry.
The three cars and trailer are all special and interesting in their own ways. There’s enough between them to keep me busy on the wrench (the newest one is 10 years old), but nothing that keeps anything totally benched really. All my automotive itches get scratched, all of my and my family’s life needs are met, and there’s not a payment to be had anywhere. I just renewed the registration on the Mercedes for the first time, and that’s a long time for me to hold onto a car (historically, I average about 6 months with a car). I don’t have any plans to dump it, so I think that’s a testament to the fit of the overall solution.
Excited for you! You deserve nice things after a decade plus of depriving yourself of comfort, and it’s nice to see you being selfless and pivoting your collection to where it can be enjoyed by the entire family. Plus it’s cool to own a vehicle that you have such a personal connection to.
The safety reasoning makes total sense to me. The YJ and CJ-3B are cool as hell, but they are literal deathtraps by today’s standards (especially the CJ-3B). It’d be one thing if you lived in a more sparsely populated area with less traffic and risk, but LA is the antithesis of that. My wife and I are expecting our first child early next year end hell, even my 2005 TJ Wrangler scares me a bit. It has airbags and some semblance of modern safety features so it’s not a dealbreaker, but the crash test videos are um… not great. By the standard at the time let alone today. Still planning on keeping it but definitely wont’ be a frequent kid hauler.
Jeep Wrangler (2-door) crash test 1997-2006
Props to you for putting the safety and enjoyment of your family first!
This is sound reasoning, DT
When I had to buy a baby transporter I replaced my mk1 MR2 with an S13 Nissan 200SX turbo. Baby, car seat and pram all fitted in nicely, plus the ABS made it the safest car I’d had at that point.
It wasn’t my kid though, so I was able to be rational about it.
I’ve engineered powertrain parts on maybe ten production vehicles, and while it’s always tempting to buy one, I kind of want the either first good one or the best one, and I can’t afford either. Maybe in another five years?
Don’t you just take the doors off for that?
Thanks for the tip on the 2024 old grille / new interior. Like you, my wife disliked the new grille, so when the 2024 Gladiators were introduced, I started looking at 2023s for her. I conceded the better interior / CarPlay interface for the grille.
Now at 150k miles it’s time to start thinking about replacing my daughter’s 2016 Wrangler. I’ll be looking for the old grille / new interior setup as well. Since we drive manuals in our Jeeps, you and I are going to wind up looking for the same rare bird.
Couldn’t you swap a 23 grille onto a 24 Wrangler?
I haven’t looked into it. Possibly, but I’m assuming it also impacts cooling ducts, etc, since the idea behind the new grille is improved cooling. If so, that’s probably easier for sure.
Since Jeep more or less did it on factory models, it shouldn’t be too hard to do.
That what I thought too. If Jeep did it themselves without underlying changes, it shouldn’t be that hard.
According to these forums, it is indeed “a thing” and it seems like many with the old grille would happily swap for the new one.
https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/forum/threads/2024-grille-swap-thread.116382/
Wow, definitely a thing. Thanks!
I’m really surprised to hear that you are having passenger space issues in the i3. I’m pretty sure I’m a couple inches taller than you and I don’t think your wife is a giant. That being said, we mostly don’t take the i3 because it offers no efficiency advantage to our Niro EV(Cd and frontal area are identical), and the Niro has lane keep and ventilated seats, and more importantly, doesn’t require Tetris to fit a big load of groceries and the stroller, or switch to gas after 50 miles. For us it really just serves as a solid backup car so that my wife and baby aren’t stranded when I’m at work.
Have you seen a rear-facing child seat? Those things are larger than some kei cars.
When he’s out of the infant car seat, it should be fine. But I’m just thinking about future expansion, especially of the canine variety.
It seems you have embraced the fact the i3 can’t be a daily driver for a family with an infant AND remain pristine forever. Now a dog? That’s awesome progress. We’ll need pics if/when you get one.
I think you’re just getting soft, or is the Liing that much huger than our Aria?
Don’t count on an older car seat being better. Most convertible car seats are considerably larger, at least compared to our infant seat.
Having 2 large breed dogs and kids, I can tell you that you will want a cargo area dog barrier or else the dog(s) will jump into the back seat and trample the kids. Ask me how well that goes. Also Wranglers, 4runners and others that have flip up or roll down rear glass are amazing for the dogs. I’d recommend strapping them in for safety of course, but it really cuts down on the hot dog breath smell inside the vehicle. I’m sure you know Andrew Collins, and his “Will it Dog” articles on that other, lesser car site. His writing is one of the only reasons I occasionally read that site. But certainly not daily like the Autopian.
If you have any more kids look into Diono seats. They are well-built (heavy), narrow, and last 10 years. I fit 3 across in my old TSX.
I have a 7mo and an i3, we use an Uppababy Aria infant seat and I can comfortably sit in front of her. I told DT this would be fine months ago, so I’m just giving him a hard time because our shower pasta boy is apparently now the princess with the pea when it comes to seating arrangements in his favorite car.
I was so happy when I was able to flip our 3rd kid’s seat forward. My TSX was JUST able to accommodate it in the middle position. Rear-facing seats are such a pain in the butt.
No one over 5’5″ or 5’6″ could comfortably fit in the front seat of my E91 3-series when I had my child’s rear facing seat installed behind it. Apparently the i3 has 4 inches less rear legroom than my car does, so what David is saying makes sense.
So neither the front seat in front of the baby nor the rear seat behind the David would be a comfortable place to be.
Something I appreciate about cars abroad is that you can turn off the front passenger airbag, which makes it safe to place a rear facing child seat in the front. This makes it easier to live with a rear-facing seat in a small car.
My 2013 US-spec Acura turns off the passenger airbag automatically when it senses some weight on the seat. Is that not a common feature? (I haven’t driven anything recent other than a rental or two).
Yes, but most people don’t consider the automatic off to be reliable enough to trust with their baby’s life. Also, the anti-front seat rhetoric is so vitriolic that no one would risk being a social pariah to do so. It’s basically impossible to find any real data about the safety of the front seat for car seats other than the dangers or car bags and the the corresponding unbending back seat rules.
Those are considerations I’m utterly ignorant of, having no kids. In fact it didn’t occur to me until this exchange that the feature to turn off the passenger airbag was for child seats…
I have an i3, a 7 month old daughter, and an infant car seat. The car seat fits totally fine in the back, and at 5’10” and 5’7” respectively, both myself and my wife can comfortably fit in the front seat. The key is to raise the front seat to the highest level, which allows the seat to slide back several more inches before contacting the car seat, while also granting more legroom up front via the magic of the Pythagorean theorem.
I get it, I traded a rust free 97 XJ for a new GMC Canyon in 2016 in anticipation of having a child… 6 years later we got the child (fertility stuff then adoption). But the Canyon, after a few upgrades, is seriously offroad worthy and our little Winnebago (NHRN) now almost 3yo thinks every bump we hit on a trail is hilarious and done just for him.
That’s awesome!
I miss my 2016 Canyon.
Buying yourself a new family rig that fits your lifestyle and that you also helped engineer(!) makes perfect sense to me. If you are planning to give your new Jeep the “angry eyes” grill abomination, now that could use an explanation.
Well hey now – all of that makes sense! Could you just swap the older grill onto the newer body, or are there related changes (hood, fenders, core support) needed to make that work?