Home » Why So Many People Are Refinancing Their Auto Loans

Why So Many People Are Refinancing Their Auto Loans

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Car buyers with bad-to-mediocre credit have had a rough go of it for the last few years. The lower interest rates of the ZIRP-era coincided with a massive supply shortage that sent prices through the roof, leaving many consumers in a situation where they spent more for a car than they probably should have. Rates have now gone up considerably, leading to higher total car costs, longer terms, and/or higher monthly payments.

This isn’t sustainable, and it seems like more consumers are beginning to opt for refinancing their current loans. This is a potentially good thing for these buyers, though it’s a bit of a warning sign for dealers and car companies. As many Morning Dump readers know, car companies are already in an uncertain environment, and this doesn’t help. What does help is cash, and Nissan just got an injection to help get through the next 12 months. Ongoing disruptions to the new car market are hitting the used car market as wholesale used vehicle prices continue to increase.

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One of my big questions with the tax/budget bill is what conservative House Republicans got out of it given the continuation of some green tax credits. My guess? The White House promised Republicans that the money wouldn’t be spent. Ford doesn’t seem to agree and believes its Michigan battery plant is going to qualify for funds.

Consumers Are Finding Their Own Relief

Kbb Atp Chart
Source: KBB

If you have a great deal of disposable income and good credit, it’s sort of never a bad time to buy a car. There are always deals to be had, whether through 0% financing deals or lower prices. If your income is limited or you have bad credit, as David Ives once observed, it’s all in the timing.

The timing hasn’t been great over the last few years for income-challenged buyers, unless you were able to buy a new car right at the early pandemic bottoms and then had a car to sell during late-pandemic shortages. Most people were not so lucky or strategic. Sometimes you need a car, especially for work, and end up in a situation where fixing your current car is too cost-prohibitive.

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Though we’re well past it now (I hope), the pandemic and the response to the pandemic caused all sorts of complicated and interrelated outcomes. Savings improved, spending temporarily dropped, and lower-income families saw improvements in credit. Childhood poverty decreased (and then increased again after support expired).

I’m going to focus on the credit portion because some households were able to stretch and buy new cars they otherwise wouldn’t have been able to afford. While interest rates were low, the values of these cars were higher due to decreased production and the resulting trimflation. The Cox/KBB chart above spells it out quite clearly.

There’s a specific vintage of loans that’s experiencing high delinquencies and is pretty terrible to hold because of this. These are people who got a higher-interest loan on a vehicle that was overpriced, and that loan is possibly even underwater still. The monthly payments are high, and the term could be as long as 84 months.

Trading in a car and trying to get a lower payment that way is difficult because the car was purchased at an inflated value, and higher interest rates mean consumers may just end up with a similar payment over a longer term. What are they to do? Refinance. In fact, according to this Automotive News article, there’s been a huge move towards it lately:

Michael Williams, senior vice president of consumer lending at American First Credit Union, said his company had seen a “seismic shift” in member demand for refinancing during the past 18 months.

Normally, American First’s auto lending involves 65 percent financing vehicle purchases and 35 percent refinancing existing deals, Williams told an Auto Finance Summit East audience in May. In the previous six to nine months, the business had shifted “closer to 50-50,” and the past couple of months had run 55-45 in favor of refinancing, he said.

“I was flabbergasted by it because the application count didn’t change,” Williams said.

The increased demand for refinancing didn’t lead to an increase in volume for the credit union as Williams expected, he said. Instead, it simply offset a decrease in consumer demand for fresh auto loans.

As the article points out, even major lenders like Chase are returning to the refinancing business, and consumers are seeing average savings of around $140 a month. If you got a decent loan with a low interest rate then it’s probably not helpful for you. This is specifically a good deal for consumers who borrowed at a high interest rate and now, having improved their credit over the last few years of regularly paying their high car note, can take the $30k or whatever they still owe on a car and refinance it at a lower rate.

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Who is this not great for? Dealerships, which sell a bunch of extra related products alongside these loans (such as Guaranteed Asset Protection). When the loan transfers, it’s not a lock that these products will go along with them. It’s also a warning to car companies, as the inability to put these customers into new-car loans takes away potential sales (and deprives dealers of used cars (i.e. trade-ins)).

Nissan Gets A $1.4 Billion Cash Injection From Investors

Photos Nissan Skyline 2002 3
Source: Nissan

Nissan is in a bad way, having stumbled along after its divorce from Renault and its failed tie-up with Honda. In an attempt to raise money, the company offered convertible bonds that have some steep terms, according to Bloomberg:

The convertible bonds carry a coupon of 1% a year, payable semiannually, and mature in 2031, the company said in a filing. The instrument has an initial conversion price of ¥397.2, representing a premium of 30% above Nissan’s closing share price on Wednesday.

The sale, one of Japan’s biggest in years, is part of Nissan’s broader effort to raise more than ¥1 trillion and revamp the carmaker. Chief Executive Officer Ivan Espinosa, who was appointed earlier this year, is seeking to revamp a carmaker that’s got an aging product lineup and is facing a huge loan repayment wall next year.

The company plans to use proceeds from the bonds to invest in new products and technologies, it said Monday. Nissan was also planning to issue a total of $4 billion in unsecured dollar- and euro-denominated junk bonds for general corporate purposes including refinancing debt, people familiar with the matter have said.

This is the clearest sign yet that Nissan is going for it, as you don’t borrow money this way unless you think you’re going to turn your company around.

Wholesale Used Values Are Still On The Rise

June 2025 Manheim Used Vehicle Value Index Large

The new car market drives the used car market more than the other way around and the tariffs are starting to have an impact on used car values, which are still slightly rising according to Manheim/Cox Automotive:

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“Wholesale appreciation trends have been more volatile over Q2 as tariffs really impacted new sales and supply, which impacted the used marketplace as well,” said Jeremy Robb, senior director of Economic and Industry Insights at Cox Automotive. “The Manheim index has generally been rising since last June, and we typically see the strongest changes for the year in the second quarter as the ‘spring bounce’ comes to an end. As we move through the second half of 2025, it’s likely that some of the reported strength in the market tapers, as the year-over-year comparisons are tougher in the back half of the year. Even so, retail sales continue to run a bit hotter than prior years, and off-lease supply into the market is still on a downward path, two factors which should be fairly supportive of higher values as we move onward.”

The second half of this year is going to be weird. I don’t quite know what to expect, but I assume costs will remain high in the third quarter as something has to break with tariffs, even as sales (of non-EVs at least) will slow. I’m expecting this trend to reverse in Q4 with slightly improved sales on a quarter-to-quarter basis, though probably down considerably on a year-over-year basis, causing prices to at least stabilize. But making predictions in this environment is kinda like wrestling a greased watermelon out of the community pool.

Ford Thinks Its CATL-Backed Plant In Michigan Will Go Through

Ford Catl Marshall Plant Factory Battery
Source: Ford

Even though it’s maybe good for me, personally, I think that it’s likely the big tax/budget bill is bad for most people, and especially bad for the future of cars. My initial reaction to House GOP members turning around on the bill, in spite of the Senate retaining spending on environment projects, was that the White House just said they wouldn’t spend the money.

This was confirmed by one of those Reps, talking to Politico:

“We believe the administration is aligned with us on terminating those Green New Scam subsidies. We believe we’re going to get 90-plus percent of all future projects terminated,” said Rep. Chip Roy (R-Texas), a member of the House Freedom Caucus, after the megabill passed Thursday. “And we talked to lawyers in the administration. We believe that’s true.”

Roy added executive action would help “ameliorate” the “damage” added by the Senate at the 11th-hour on the renewable energy tax credits.

Contrast that with what Ford thinks in this Reuters article:

Ford Motor said Tuesday it believes its planned $3 billion Michigan electric vehicle battery plant, which is 60% complete, will qualify for production tax credits after a massive tax and budget bill revised the rules.

In May, Ford had sounded the alarm over the potential for the U.S. government to eliminate production tax credits that support the manufacturing of electric vehicle batteries using Chinese technology in the House version of legislation.

Ford said Tuesday the Marshall, Michigan, plant that is slated to employ 1,700 workers “is on track to qualify for the production tax credit ― a win for our customers and a win for American competitiveness.”

This really comes down to how you parse the word “future.” Maybe this project is in the present?

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What I’m Listening To While Writing TMD

My freshman college roommate was a Taiwanese kid who looked like a punk rocker but listened almost exclusively to K-POP. This was not yet a music style popular globally, so I kind of took at as an enjoyable curiosity. In the following years, K-POP conquered the globe, and now “Gnarly” by KATSEYE is my first potential contender for Song of the Summer. It has a very Damon Albarn quality, actually, where I’m not sure how much it’s mocking itself or its listeners. The sarcasm is so deep it’s maybe not even sarcastic anymore. Either way, it’s a bop.

The Big Question

What’s the worst loan term you’ve had or heard someone have?

Top photo: Dodge/Depositphotos.com

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Rick Garcia
Rick Garcia
2 hours ago

Judging from what I have seen people do, I’m pretty sure most of these refis are because people bought cars they wanted, but couldn’t afford and now need to stretch their payments out to make ends meet.

Taargus Taargus
Taargus Taargus
3 hours ago

That stock photo couple looks like they’re about to call Sears for a central air conditioning install.

Lewis26
Lewis26
56 minutes ago

I’ll call tomorrow

You’ll call now

I’ll call now!

Taargus Taargus
Taargus Taargus
3 hours ago

I don’t know the exact details, but I’m going to guess whatever the loan my MIL got for the Pathfinder she now has.

This Pathfinder replaced a three year lease that was two years in for a basically identical Pathfinder. They were way over mileage, the car needed some sort of maintenance (I guess, they probably lied) that was going to cost them 1k. Orrrrrr, they could trade in their lease to sign up to purchase a brand new Pathfinder, for what my MIL claimed was an AMAZING deal.

We all know that this was not an amazing deal.

PresterJohn
PresterJohn
3 hours ago

I happen to live and work relatively close to military bases (two different bases actually). I also work with a lot of former military personnel (though I did not serve).

Let me tell you, the stereotypes are true: junior enlisted personnel are the GOATs when it comes to poor auto loan terms. There are BHPH lots near the bases that they are ordered to not go to because these places have exploited these kids so often. From my coworkers stories (who have both heard about these people and been those people in some cases), 20% for 5-6 years on base model Challengers/Chargers was not uncommon.

SlowCarFast
SlowCarFast
4 hours ago

I was shocked when a PhD holding colleague told me to replace my 12 year old, good-condition minivan with a new car, because “at 0% financing, they are practically giving them away!”
I said, “Not for me”, replaced the transmission at $2,200, and continued to put in minimal maintenance on a reliable, paid-off vehicle. Average that $2,200 plus oil changes over the 7 years I owned it, and it was still a good value.

It’s been a while since I thought about that. It was 13 years ago.

Manwich Sandwich
Manwich Sandwich
4 hours ago
Reply to  SlowCarFast

The real time to replace a vehicle is if/when you can get parts for it anymore and/or the body/chassis is rusted out swiss cheese.

ShifterCar
ShifterCar
3 hours ago

Generally that is my strategy as well but I have also had vehicles die the death of a thousand cuts. My gen 2 Prius was just shy of 200k miles but needed some body work (too much street parking in NJ), new tires, a new 12v battery, burning 1.5qts oil per change, intermittent dash combo meter failure, and probably a couple other things I am forgetting.
The last straw was starting it and smelling that hot electrical smell before it died and wouldn’t restart.
I didn’t even bother with diagnosis just went online to one of those instant offer tow it tomorrow sales sites and was offered almost $2k and couldn’t hit accept fast enough. All in the car probably needed $1500-1750 invested but it was still going to be a sort of rough looking, 200k mile Prius that my wife no longer trusted so unfortunately it was time for it to go.

Der Foo
Der Foo
4 hours ago
Reply to  SlowCarFast

Was their PhD in finance, accounting or economics?

SlowCarFast
SlowCarFast
2 hours ago
Reply to  Der Foo

Funny, none of those three seem to be in their wheelhouse.

SlowCarFast
SlowCarFast
2 hours ago
Reply to  Der Foo

That said, I want to reiterate what many have said over the past few decades: America needs to teach finance in primary school. Unfortunately, the people in charge don’t want that.

Rick Garcia
Rick Garcia
4 hours ago
Reply to  SlowCarFast

Having done sales in the past, doctors are the biggest financial morons. They seem to think since they are a doctor they are smart at everything and that is definitely not the case

10001010
10001010
2 hours ago
Reply to  Rick Garcia

Having worked in legal services in the past I can say that most (not all) lawyers have the same affliction.

Mike Harrell
Mike Harrell
4 hours ago
Reply to  SlowCarFast

I have a Ph.D. and my advice is to replace your car with one that’s at least forty years old, preferably from a company and/or country that no longer exists.

SAABstory
SAABstory
2 hours ago
Reply to  Mike Harrell

My 88 Saab purchase is coming up Milhouse!

Kelly
Kelly
51 minutes ago
Reply to  SlowCarFast

A PhD in Napoleonic literature isn’t going to help you understand… well anything.

Manwich Sandwich
Manwich Sandwich
4 hours ago

“Nissan is in a bad way, having stumbled along after its divorce from Renault and its failed tie-up with Honda.”

Someone should have told Nissan that divorces can be very expensive.

I’ve been through one personally so I know!

“What’s the worst loan term you’ve had or heard someone have?”

I’ve never done car loans. And the worst stories I’ve heard about bad car loan terms is what I read right here from user comments.

Last edited 4 hours ago by Manwich Sandwich
Goof
Goof
4 hours ago

What’s the worst loan term you’ve had or heard someone have?

60 months, opened in late December, for 4.49%. Best rate for that term in the US. I think I could’ve got 4.09% for 36 months, but I always, “hedge against disaster.”

The balance after 7.5 months into the term is < 65% of the initial note. So a bit more than 1/3rd paid off in 1/8th of the note’s term length.

The current plan is to pay it off in month 19/60.
The plan is total interest paid will be < 0.75% of the out-the-door transaction price.
That’s to say if the total price of the car was $50K, I’ll have paid < $375 in interest.
So in that example, it raises the “total paid for the car” from $50,000 to < $50,374.

Rick Garcia
Rick Garcia
2 hours ago
Reply to  Goof

Smart

JaredTheGeek
JaredTheGeek
4 hours ago

I always refinance but not this time, I got in with a rate way lower than I could ever get today.

Eggsalad
Eggsalad
4 hours ago

My current car loan might be at 6.49% or 6.99%. I really don’t care. My payment is $105/month and I owe less than a grand at this point. Because I bank at a Credit Union, the loan is simple interest, which costs me about $4/month. I probably won’t refinance.

Cerberus
Cerberus
4 hours ago

A friend of mine had a ridiculous loan on a Geo Tracker that she then rolled into a $70k F-150 she bought under the excuse that she needed a truck to work on communication towers, a job she had for, like, 15 minutes (though, in fairness, she had issues with several guys stalking her on the job). She ended up trading that on a minivan later (got kids), but she didn’t tell me the financials and I’d rather not know.

Pupmeow
Pupmeow
3 hours ago
Reply to  Cerberus

I like the phrase “got kids.” Like they came w/ 2-day shipping and she was like, “shit, need a van.”

Cerberus
Cerberus
2 hours ago
Reply to  Pupmeow

Haha, that wasn’t my intentional meaning, but speaks to my view on them. In her case, obvious extended timeline aside, it did seem to happen closer to that than with most people. Life Plan calendar started firing off alerts that it was past time for kids, so she closed her eyes, spun five times, and pointed to a random guy in the room she was in. It didn’t work out great for either of them, but the wedding was entertaining in a disaster comedy kind of way.

SAABstory
SAABstory
2 hours ago
Reply to  Pupmeow

Have you heard about Linda?

What the F-150?

No, she got kids.

Ooh, tough break.

Kelly
Kelly
49 minutes ago
Reply to  Cerberus

Got kids… damn, those stick around longer than shingles and are just about as painful.

Cerberus
Cerberus
23 minutes ago
Reply to  Kelly

Never had either, though I did have chicken pox when I was young, so I’ll be getting the vaccine and I’m plenty familiar with kids through other people. I didn’t even like being a kid, so I never had it in me to want them. Imagining being someone’s dad was as abstract as becoming an NBA player when I don’t even like basketball. It’s to my detriment in that I’ve only ever seemed to find myself in relationships with women who wanted kids. The weird part is that kids tend to like me. I guess they’re kind of like cats that go to the person in the room that’s most indifferent to them.

Hoonicus
Hoonicus
12 minutes ago
Reply to  Cerberus

Ha! Thanks for the laugh!

Hoonicus
Hoonicus
5 hours ago

Even though it’s maybe good for me, personally, I think that it’s likely the big tax/budget bill is bad for most people,”
Say what now? I hope you’re doing well and all, but find that statement hard to believe! I’m fortunate to be in a wealthy area that shouldn’t see its hospitals close after the midterms, but many in outlying areas already have. The burden of added monthly paperwork to those covered, combined with drastic cuts to medicaid staff needed to process, will certainly tip many over! Both hospitals, and those in need. This RECKLESS ABOMINATION Bill will have far worse consequences than predicted!

Drew
Drew
4 hours ago
Reply to  Hoonicus

Yeah. I’m probably looking at a little money off my taxes, but I suspect the net result for me, personally, will be negative, given the hospitals around here are going to have struggles, the economic knock-on effects (especially from increased ICE funding and raids), etc. And I would actually rather pay more if it means we take better care of people (though I would obviously prefer the ultra-rich pay more, especially something like a wealth tax that would disincentivize taking loans against untaxed assets to avoid liquidating any of them and paying taxes).

I’m especially frustrated that it was crafted to ensure people feel the minor positive effects while the bill is relatively fresh in their minds and delays a lot of the negatives so that people who aren’t paying attention won’t link them to the legislation.

Pupmeow
Pupmeow
3 hours ago
Reply to  Hoonicus

Yeah, I think it’s fair to say that the immediate, direct impacts to upper middle class and above people will be positive. But even they are not completely shielded from all this shit, so in the end, probably a net negative even if our annual tax bills are a bit lower.

SlowCarFast
SlowCarFast
1 hour ago
Reply to  Hoonicus

Let’s see: Parks going to shit (and soon sold to rich people), consumer protections removed, environmental protections gone, emergency services slashed, cost of living skyrocketing, controls on business practices loosened, lawyers who try to defend the people are persecuted, speaking truth based on facts gets you sued by the government, and a masked army of figures with no accountability is being amassed while putting the country obscenely into debt. (With all of this nationalism, why aren’t we paying off our foreign-held debt?).

No, everything is fine here!

Edit: I DO HOPE that I am wrong, but these things are happening, and others are intentionally included in the Big Bill. They are not there for no reason.

Last edited 1 hour ago by SlowCarFast
Hoonicus
Hoonicus
1 hour ago
Reply to  SlowCarFast

In the 77 years since the Marshall Plan, yes, many mistakes have been made, but overall world opinion of the U.S. was that we were a force for positive development of relationships between nations, and were viewed as having leadership in democracy, economic, and healthcare expansion. It is why the dollar was accepted as Reserve Currency. The Lunatic fringe has deeply eroded this hard earned trust, both domestically, and abroad, and severely damaged the ability to recover, in just 6 months!

Andy Individual
Andy Individual
5 hours ago

When I was in my teens, credit cards were still a pretty new phenomenon. I had good summer jobs, so my parents added me as a supplemental on their card, essentially acting as guarantors. They told me to put as many of the purchases I was going to make with my earnings on the card and to pay it off every month. I think my average monthly statement was like $50. But it was a time when annual memberships were higher than what you see now. Anyway, it’s the behaviour that counts. I’ve had sparkling credit all my life. The right habits have to be formed early.

3WiperB
3WiperB
5 hours ago

I did this with my kids on my Amex. I can limit the amount to spend per card with them so they don’t have access to the full credit, which is really nice, and I can adjust it instantly in the app. I can also get warnings when they spend above a certain level. I then got my oldest his own card in college with the condition that he pay it off every month and only used it for needs (like groceries). He had a high 700’s credit score before he even graduated college. It’s all a game, but it’s important to know how to play it.

Also, just as important.. teach your kids the game and how to be responsible with money. They aren’t going to get that education anyplace else.

Last edited 5 hours ago by 3WiperB
David Smith
David Smith
4 hours ago
Reply to  3WiperB

I started early with my kids playing Monopoly. When they were around 9 and 6 the 6 year old wanted to know why he couldn’t get a loan from the bank like in real life. I said fine, 20% interest every time you pass Go. We played a few games that I won each time and they both decided that it probably was better to not take out the loans.
I did explain that there are time that taking out a loan did make sense but you have to do the math on the long term benefits of the loan. So far so good around 15 years later.

Andy Individual
Andy Individual
3 hours ago
Reply to  3WiperB

The added bonus to having a credit card at that age is it makes it much easier to buy concert tickets. That was probably my main irresponsible spending habit. 😉

SlowCarFast
SlowCarFast
4 hours ago

Yep. Went to open a Discover Card when I graduated high school. Got a free VisionWare pot in lieu of the toaster for signing up, and paid off my balance every month, and asked them to waive late fees whenever I submitted a rare late payment.

Worked well so far!

Dodsworth
Dodsworth
5 hours ago

I hope people are getting better refinance deals than the unsolicited ones offered to me. They’re ridiculous. They either want a metric ton of money down, or they want you to take out an 84 month loan to lower your payment by about $100. I don’t need to refinance, but I look at the offers for grins and giggles.

Rick Garcia
Rick Garcia
2 hours ago
Reply to  Dodsworth

I see you got a similar offer to what I got in the mail a few days ago. The refi offer would over double my remaining term and interest rate. Hard pass.

3WiperB
3WiperB
5 hours ago

I’ve got to imagine that carrying a credit card balance is the worst loan that most people ever have.

The one benefit of overpaying for a new Truck during Covid (though it looks really cheap now in comparison to a 2025 model) is that I have a 1.74% loan. My other car loan is at 5.49%. Both are 2021 models and will be paid off within a year. Then no car payments and hopefully I’ll keep them both for at least 4-5 more years.

Permanentwaif
Permanentwaif
5 hours ago

Most cars are depreciating assets and I’ve never had the appetite to finance and pay interest ON TOP of something that will be worth less going forward. I’ve only bought used cars in the 3-6 yr old range and paid cash. Most of them have been under $20k and that’s doable. If I need to finance it has to be on favorable terms i.e $25000@2% for 24 months. If I don’t get that then I don’t buy and wait until I can at my terms.

I get that buying a car sometimes isn’t a decision you make with the mind but with the heart. As a car person I totally get it. But getting yourself into a bad car loan is one of the things that will fuck up your finances royally for years and cause stress and unhappiness.

Jason H.
Jason H.
5 hours ago
Reply to  Permanentwaif

That has been what my wife and I had done for almost 20 years. However, in 2022 we did finance my used 2017 Bolt because Inflation was 8% and the loan was offered at 2.5%

Kevin Rhodes
Kevin Rhodes
5 hours ago

I bought a car on my Discover Card (via a cash advance) back in college. 18% interest. Only $1250 though. Paid off once my friend who I sold my previous car to paid me. That was actually my ’84 Jetta GLI that I had forever, one of the best cars I have ever owned.

Worst deal I know of? My nephew got his license finally at 22, and of course was jonesing for a car. Went to the local Ford store, who wanted to sell him a 3yo Hyundai Sonata for basically the price of a brand new one (and this was pre-pandemic) at 24% interest over 84 months. At the time, he was making $10 an hour at a retail job. I told him to not do it, he went for it, and thankfully the dealership could not get the financing approved. Dodged having an albatross around his neck. And you KNOW the engine would have blown up and left him making payments on a paperweight.

LMCorvairFan
LMCorvairFan
5 hours ago
Reply to  Kevin Rhodes

My stepson did the same thing on a used X5. The term and interest were crazy. I advised him against doing the deal and buy a sub-thousand dollar throw away and drive it until it died, then rinse/repeat. He actually did as I suggested for once. When he got his finances in order he did buy a used X5 but on his terms (BMW anything is IMO a mistake).

Kevin Rhodes
Kevin Rhodes
5 hours ago
Reply to  LMCorvairFan

Depends on the BMW. I have never heard of anyone not having a bad time with an X5, but my 328! and 128is have been absolute anvils. Especially the 328! that I bought new. My out of pocket repairs in 14 years have been a battery. Just routine and a bit of preventative maintenance. The 128i hasn’t been far behind, bought it used five years ago, has only needed a windshield washer pump and rear shocks, and those only the end of last year.

BMWs are at their best when at their simplest. Stickshift, RWD, modest hp engine, minimal electronic nonsense, just like back in the day, and they are a great experience.

LMCorvairFan
LMCorvairFan
4 hours ago
Reply to  Kevin Rhodes

My first BMW was a 325is and my first Mercedes was a 190e. Both must have been Monday – Friday builds as they were both steaming piles. The dealers didn’t enhance the experience any.

The kid just sold his X5 for good money. He put a lot of his own labor into fixing small brake and suspension issues. He didn’t have any major issues though.

A good friend had his m5 eat it’s engine. He fought with bmw and the dealer for 6 months before they finally fixed it on their dime at an invoice of 45k. Turned out the tech screwed up on an warranty oil change and the fresh new oil leaked out past the improperly installed filter. BMW brought in a specialist who confirmed the error but the dealer tried to screw him on the labor.

Kevin Rhodes
Kevin Rhodes
3 hours ago
Reply to  LMCorvairFan

My e30s were anvils, so were my e28s. So was my 300TE that was contemporary with your 190E. Of course, I never, ever pay money to new car dealerships for repairs and maintenance, they universally suck. And possibly the first owners dealt with getting the initial bugs fixed – I bought all of those cars well used. They were still as reliable as death and taxes. NONE of those older cars were as reliable as the modern ones of course.

As I said, screw around with the stupid high-performance cars at your peril. And dealerships. They are where baby techs go to turn into techs who might actually know something. Do you really want a baby tech working on your $100K car?

Ben
Ben
4 hours ago
Reply to  Kevin Rhodes

24% interest over 84 months

Holy bad financial decision, Batman! You’d pay more in interest over the course of the loan than the initial loan was for.

Kevin Rhodes
Kevin Rhodes
3 hours ago
Reply to  Ben

No doubt about that. Bullet dodged, especially given how explodey those Hyundais and KIAs have turned out to be. Even if it was covered by warranty, not like they give you a loaner for the weeks and months it is taking for them to fix cars (good friend of mine is in that situation right now).

Cerberus
Cerberus
3 hours ago
Reply to  Kevin Rhodes

My uncle and two of his sons bought H/Ks. They’ve all needed engines and not the same engine type, either. They’ve all been covered and none of them are poor, so it hasn’t hurt them much beyond the obvious frustrations, but last I talked to my uncle, he was asking about Mazdas.

Kevin Rhodes
Kevin Rhodes
2 hours ago
Reply to  Cerberus

I had some trepidation about buying my mother a Soul. But that 1.8l(?)engine doesn’t seem to have the rampant problems (at least in the newer ones), and she only drives 2-3K a year anyway. And at the end of the day, it was the car she liked the best out of all the sub-$30K offerings, and if mama ain’t happy, ain’t nobody happy. And the Volvo she had been driving was making me seriously unhappy.

Cerberus
Cerberus
2 hours ago
Reply to  Kevin Rhodes

That’s what the warranty is for if anything happens. Sounds like she’d be good for the 10 years.

Kevin Rhodes
Kevin Rhodes
2 hours ago
Reply to  Cerberus

Exactly why I am not THAT worried about it. Even if she is without the car for a couple months in the worst case scenario, I can lend her one of mine (shudder – I should probably just pay for her Ubers). She’s a 77yo retired lady who lunches, she can be without a car for a while.

But for a clock-punching working stiff with a family, good luck.

Rollin Hand
Rollin Hand
5 hours ago

I have been lucky to never have an official “car loan” though I paid for one car via a line of credit, so I guess that’s close enough. And I paid it off quickly.

I have never bought new.

One of the best pieces of financial advice I have ever read was from Slammin’ Sam Snead, of all people. And in a golf magazine, of all places.

“Aside from houses, if you have to buy it on time, you can’t afford it.”

I’ve tried to stuck.with that, though it is getting more difficult with cars. I wouldn’t do it unless I was getting VERY low financing and a great deal.

My wife paid for her Sienna over five years, with zero percent financing. I don’t know if we’ll ever see that kind of free money again.

Kevin Rhodes
Kevin Rhodes
5 hours ago
Reply to  Rollin Hand

While interest rates were low, if you had the cash to buy a new car you would have been foolish to tie it all up in the car. I paid half cash for the Soul I bought my mother two years ago, and given it’s at 2.99% I wish I had put down a lot less. There are free money deals out there today still. Though certainly not on a Sienna.

That is no longer the case, but of course, the average American doesn’t have much of a choice. It is very much privilege to have the cash on hand to pay for a car outright, and really even MORE of a privilege to be in a position to be able to deal with the foibles of cheap used cars.

There is a lot to be said for the average working stiff who doesn’t know anything about fixing cars treating a car payment like a utility bill, and always having a reasonably priced newer car under warranty. Of course, the problem is too many people have champagne tastes on tap water budgets, and that is what gets them into trouble.

Rollin Hand
Rollin Hand
4 hours ago
Reply to  Kevin Rhodes

Oh, I’m lucky and I know it. I might, depending on the rate, finance my next car. With kids, driving around a cheaper older car loses its appeal.

Cerberus
Cerberus
5 hours ago
Reply to  Rollin Hand

My Focus ST was weird as I got 0% for 60 months, but there was a rate for 48. It wasn’t much (1.75, IIRC), but very strange that the shorter term was higher. On that, I put down and paid the minimum—can’t argue with free money.

Rollin Hand
Rollin Hand
4 hours ago
Reply to  Cerberus

I would too. It seems really weird that Ford would do that, but I guess they had their reasons.

Der Foo
Der Foo
4 hours ago
Reply to  Rollin Hand

Volume goals, over production and/or clearing financial load off their books.

The longer duration at 0% could also be some sort of strategy based on punitive terms around missed payments. IDK.

Manufacturers sometimes based decisions on things not directly related to selling cars, that are manifested in the sales of cars. Lose money ‘here’ so that they can save or get money for something over ‘there’.

Parsko
Parsko
5 hours ago

…wrestling a greased watermelon out of the community pool.

I just had to do this! Still tasted the same too, which was funny.

Andy Individual
Andy Individual
3 hours ago
Reply to  Parsko

I’m not judging. You do you.

Last edited 3 hours ago by Andy Individual
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