Shopping for a used car on a budget is tough, especially when you want your money to go far. Even though the market’s come down since 2021, a car that bundles plenty of passing power with great build quality, abundant toys, exemplary reliability, and serious comfort all for a handful of grand is going to be pretty rare. Or is it? The third-generation Toyota Avalon might not be the obvious choice for a reasonably priced used car, but look beyond the fact that your grandparents might have one, and you’ll find lots of reasons to love Toyota’s mid-aughts full-sizer.
Think of the Avalon as Toyota’s Buick LeSabre, and suddenly things make a lot of sense. This is a full-sized sedan that saw a relatively high median buyer age, and it attracted clientele that often liked to keep cars for a long time. Big comfort, Toyota dependability, space for adults to genuinely stretch out, and most first owners kept up on maintenance. These four-doors didn’t pick their owners’ kids up from daycare; they occasionally picked their owners’ grandchildren up from daycare, and that’s an important difference.
So why the third-generation model? Part of it comes down to the 2GR-FE 3.5-liter V6, a timing chain-equipped engine that replaced the timing belt-equipped three-liter 1MZ-FE V6. Not only does this mean the third-generation cars won’t require an expensive timing belt service ever, but the 2GR-FE was also far less prone to oil sludge than the 1MZ-FE. Pumping out a respectable 280 horsepower and 260 lb.-ft. of torque, the only real headache you have to watch out for is a timing cover leak. It’s not exactly ubiquitous, but it can be an expensive job to sort, considering it calls for 17.4 hours of book labor. However, it’s normally a slow weep rather than a leak, so unless you’re seeing oil on the ground, it isn’t the end of the world on a car that only cost you a few grand.
Depending on model year, the third-generation Avalon had one of two transmissions: a U151E five-speed from 2005 through 2007, then the U660E six-speed from 2008 onward. While the five-speed definitely requires regular fluid changes, complains of 2005 models shifting erratically are normally fixed with a calibration update that was applied to 2006 to 2007 models. As for the six-speed, it’s as good as rock-solid, but is less eager to let the engine wind out than the five-speed. Either way, you’re looking at the recipe for a fairly quick car, one that can run from zero-to-60 mph in fewer than seven seconds on regular 87-octane gasoline.
However, beyond the powertrain, the real piece de resistance of the third-generation Avalon was its build quality. We’re talking big stitched door card inserts, tightly-grained plastics, optional veneers, all nailed together incredibly well and engineered to still look and feel good after decades on the road. You can get some serious toys too, including a 360-watt 12-speaker JBL audio system, reclining rear seats, HID headlights, auto-dimming side mirrors, and even ventilated seats on the top Limited trim. Sure, it won’t have Apple CarPlay or Android Auto, but for a cheap car with a reputation for solid reliability, the third-generation Avalon is practically the lap of luxury.
Best of all is the state of the second-hand market. See, for the third-generation Avalon, Toyota targeted a younger median buyer age of 60 instead of 66, and now that 20 years or so have passed, the time has come for a lot of original long-haul owners to move on. However, because everybody searches for a second-hand Camry but far fewer people look for a second-hand Avalon, prices are remarkably reasonable for what you get.
Take a look at this. It’s a one-owner 2005 Avalon XLS with a squeaky clean history report and just 63,883 miles on the clock, up for sale at a Florida Lexus dealer for $7,995. Sure, it’s on the high end of the Avalon market, but it looks immaculate, and the fact that you can buy a top-of-market 2005 Avalon for $8,000 speaks volumes about the sheer value these vehicles offer.
Alright with a high-mileage hero with a minor claim or two on the history report? Here’s a one-owner 2006 Avalon Touring up for sale in Washington for $4,500. Sure, it might have 187,094 miles on the clock, but someone loved it enough to keep it for nearly 20 years, and short of a stained floor mat, you’d never know how much it’s been driven by the condition of the interior. These things just hold up incredibly well, and this example stands as a testament.
Even if you’re on a really tight budget, there are still some gems to be had. Not only does the seller of this 2005 Avalon Limited claim to have owned it from new and have all service records dating back to day one, but you can also tell it’s had proper money spent on it because this 286,000-mile car is rolling on a recent set of Michelin tires. Sure, it might be high mileage and have the expected cosmetic imperfections of a well-used 20-year-old car, but it’s also only $3,000, up for sale in California.
So, if you have between $3,000 and $7,000 to spend on a used car, want something nice, but also want something that doesn’t require much maintenance, why not shop for a 20-year-old Toyota Avalon? It’s almost Lexus-nice without the Lexus price, a car mostly owned by a mature demographic with the means to keep up on maintenance, and something you can keep for a long time on a sensible budget while still feeling like you got away with punching above your budget.
Top graphic image: Toyota
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National Car rental was handing these out as “Premium” rental cars around 2008-2010 on the west coast (LAX and SFO). I had a slew of these, even took a semi hot pass of Mulholland drive in one. The esc and brakes were pretty mad, brakes got mushy but it handled better than I expected any lux ish car to do…. Recall that car had some touring type package with Xenon lights and the JBL stereo option.
One funny thing to note is the 2000-2004 Avalons’ have date/time clocks and can’t be set newer than 2018. I remember that being a minor humorous issue with Avalon owners when 2019 hit.
My dad had a 2004 Avalon XLS, it was the nicest car he ever had after years of cheap econoboxes. When he had to quit driving due to a medical condition he gave it to my daughter, it was better than her old Malibu by far and it was free so she took it figuring she would keep it a little while and get something else. Well we’re about 6 years later and she’s still driving it because it just won’t quit, even though she drives it like a demon and I have to scold her to get regular maintenance done it just keeps going. I also think she is keeping it because it reminds her of her grandpa.
They’re still FAR too expensive. 8 grand for a 20 year old car is nuts. I’ll stick to my ‘murrican gigantic luxury cars for now. I can get a really nice Town Car for less moolah, a VERY nice Grand Marquis, or any of the big front driver Buicks. All deliver a nice, smooth driving experience, with a range of toys from zero to spaceship. Is the Avalon better put together than any of those? Most likely. Is it more reliable? That’s debatable.
A sibling’s 2005 LeSabre ate its transmission before 150,000 miles. I would sooner trust a Toyota of that vintage, just about every time.
To be fair, obviously anecdotal, but I think a lot of this is.
Anything with a 3800 is probably a safe bet, but you’ll have to make sure the rest of the car doesn’t fall apart around it.
That’s where Avalons have a sizable edge IMO.
I don’t think you’re wrong in saying that a same era Toyota would likely be a bit more reliable, but I’d argue you’d still be money ahead with the Buick, even after factoring in repairs.
Ugh. My parents bought one of these new, an ’05 Limited. At the time, they were years away from being grandparents! They were still in their 40s! (Which makes it all the more embarrassing that it replaced the PT Cruiser my dad just had to have when those first came out.) But they bought the Avalon because of its interior space, because my then-21-year-old brother, who is 6’5″, had moved back in with them.
It had scads of space, I’ll give it that, and that was enough for my brother to think it was the bee’s knees, but I swear that was one of the most uncomfortable cars I’ve ever been in. There was no consideration given to how human bodies would exist in that space. The seats were extremely wide and flat, and the armrests on the doors were oddly tiny, with huge gaps between the seats and the doors so that they were too far away to be used comfortably. I’m not as tall or broad as my brother, but only by a little bit, and even for someone of my size it felt like the car gave me no alternative but to sit with my hands folded in my lap, my elbows at my sides, with absolutely nothing to hold me in place but the seatbelt.
It also put down way more power than the chassis was capable of handling. I’ve driven Saab Turbos with less torque steer. And a significantly better ride and handling balance, now that I think of it.
As far as reliability on the cheap goes, I’m not sure any 20-year-old car is the answer. I do know that my parents traded theirs in when it was eight years old, having given it adequate if not fanatical maintenance, after the Toyota dealer told them it needed several thousand dollars of unexpected repairs.
Hard pass.
My parents had the ‘07, and it was an absolute torque disaster, on narrow fuel efficiency focused tires. The dealer said its transmission went out at 130k, but it was probably the software issue cited in the article.
I don’t recall the ergonomic issues you point out, but the materials came across as cheap and rattled quite a bit. Later, and earlier, Avalons were better.
In its era these were actually known as the LEAST reliable Toyota. I recall a rep from the company trying to explain how it was their “most complicated car ever” and they were working out some bugs.
I didn’t believe it and bought one. It was meh. There were numerous recalls and breakdowns. Burst widow washer in the winter. Failed wheel bearings. A recall on some engine management thing that meant it was never quite as fast or smooth afterwards.
The final straw was the bogus “unintended acceleration” recall that was remedied by shaving off a portion of the gas pedal. Literally just chopping it off.
Every time I drove it the pedal feel reminded me of how half assed the repair was.
At the time they had poor resale value because of the defects and acceleration scandal, so I got soaked.
Today the haze of nostalgia has set in and like so many old tramps, its reputation has grown.
I’ve always found these frumpy looking, but never looked inside. That interior looks fantastic.
First and second generation Avalons were some of the last cars available with a front bench seat and column shifter.
I need you here with me
Not way over in a bucket seat
Ah yes, I remember looking at used examples for a morbidly obese aunt who had trouble fitting into anything with a center console. Somehow she managed to squeeze into a Camry, at least, for as long as she was able to walk.
It is the oatmeal and green tea of cars. It’s what’s good for you but you’d rather eat waffles and bacon and wash it down with a frappuccino.
Sounds like a great way to spend the rest of the morning feeling like you swallowed a rock.
Oatmeal with banana slices, peanut butter and cinnamon, make it with milk and add some honey or maple syrup, it’s delicious, green tea is nice too, but i’ll admit even i think it’s bland, and i love all tea!
My favorite green tea is Dragon’s Well but it’s hard to source a decent tin.
It used to be the case that, like the Buicks, nobody wanted them, making them incredible buys, but I know when I was helping my ex find a car 5 years ago, this had changed. IDK if that’s a local difference or if they’ve come relatively back down since. The only ones still cheap had over 300k miles, which is a bit much for a non-mechanic/HS kid in temrs of potential risk. She ended up with a ’11 (IIRC) dark red ES350 in new condition with 88k on it. By no means fun, but leagues better than my same-generation Camry in terms of build quality and comfort, and I almost wanted one even as someone who dailies a sports car that he thinks rides great.
My in-laws had one of these they bought new. I spent many miles piloting that appliance. While perfectly adequate transportation, obediently conveying occupants without complaint and with reasonable comfort, I always felt that it was entirely powered by my soul. Each press of the start button somehow drained a small amount of my precious Lebenskraft to lubricate the gears of the infernal mechanism. After making my life a hollow void for many years, it was easy to sell and held it’s value well. I’m sure that it has lived on and the wretched machine has claimed the souls of countless victims due to its pestiferous reliability. Hark ye!
That was my ’08 Camry. An abominable car to drive and that was an SE with a manual. I used to say the same thing about it taking a piece of my soul every time I drove it. I’ve driven plenty of boring cars where they’re just a car, whatever, but there’s something truly startlingly, actively, malignantly terrible that Toyota can manage to achieve. They run forever because they run on your life force. Not worth it, there are plenty of other reliable enough cars that aren’t energy vampires. Honesty, if my job wasn’t so dependent on a car, I’d take an Alfa that had been in a flood over another Camry—it wasn’t even comfortable! In fact, those power leather seats were the worst seats I had ever sat in—collapsing aluminum gym bleachers or those shitty steel folding chairs are practically massage seats in comparison.
It’s funny, I tell people this story and they think I’m kidding until they drive one. There is something just soul crushing about these cars.
When my Focus ST did the Ford coolant intrusion thing at 180k at the height of the carpocalypse, I needed something to get around until the GR86 came in (Toyota outsourcing their sports cars was inspired and I admire their self-awareness) and the Camry was the best I could find. It was in great shape and I figured it was a manual and it would be nice to have something comfortable for a change. Man, was I wrong. And, though it had only about 14k more miles on it, it felt like 214k more than the ST, which otherwise felt and looked like it had maybe half of what it had until you saw the smoke in the rearview mirror. It burned and leaked oil, the mounts were all shot, the exhaust leaked, the seat was designed for a different species, the suspension was somehow poor riding and poor handling with absolutely no satisfaction available from the act of driving. Some dick cheese caused a crash that resulted in my GR being in the shop for two months while I had an Equinox rental and it was totally fine vehicle, not something I’d buy, but not soul torture.
Back when I did car detailing, I drove a lot of cars. Toyotas were…fine. Nothing really wrong with them necessarily, but nothing really exceptional either. They just existed. However, they never showed their miles, with 200k+ mile examples feeling more or less like a new car.
Actually, I lied. The steering in late 2000s Corollas is one of the most numb interfaces with a car that I have ever encountered.
My experience with a Camry was totally different—looked great, but felt like it was made by GM in the ’90s while being much worse to drive. My ’12 Focus at over 200k felt almost new when it was totaled. Ford really blew it with that dumb DCT as the car with the manual was Corolla-reliable while being massively better to drive, faster, and with better mileage for less money. My ST was the same, for that matter, until 180k when the Ecoboost coolant intrusion problem hit (still ran fine for a couple months while I looked for a replacement).
You didn’t need that soul anyway…
I’ve lived with the polar opposite of that car: a vintage British sports car. Lots of fun but the smell, filth, constant maintainence, complete lack of safety, lack of comfort and fear of breakdowns are their own kind of soul crushing experience.
Yes, but while you felt hopeless at least you felt alive…British cars do have their own soul sucking despair, but it is somehow different. Its more like a battle of stubbornness that you both know you cannot win against the car. Just try getting the hydraulic clutch to work properly on a Midget…Even after you replace every piece of that system, it will still somehow not work and you’re back at square one covered in hydraulic fluid with a bunch of probably perfectly fine parts you’ve spent hour and hours replacing. Finally after years and years of on and off work, the car is almost drivable only to burn to the ground in a garage fire….Yeah that’s British car soul suck.
“Finally after years and years of on and off work, the car is almost drivable only to burn to the ground in a garage fire….Yeah that’s British car soul suck.”
Yeah. Been there, done that 🙁
(Thank Dog for insurance!)
EVERY generation of Avalon is one of the best used cars you can buy. I daily drove a 1st-gen (1996) for the last year and a half as a daily beater, 112+ miles per day. They absolutely got better with each generation, but they’re ALL fantastic cars with ample horsepower, good brakes, tons of comfort, and decent or better fuel economy, and the vast majority can be found relatively cheap if you buy high mileage (which, honestly, isn’t a concern on these absolute tanks so long as you keep up with the maintenance).
I had the same experience with my VX30 Camry. It was outdated, sure, but it did not drive like a 17 year old car with 160,000 miles. The people who claim that Toyota had stopped overbuilding their cars by then don’t know what they are talking about. The build quality of that inexpensive appliance car was fantastic. It was a boring but rock solid car at a time when my finances dictated that I get my daily transport on the cheap.
That was exactly my situation, broke, 4L60E died in my pickup, but there was that ’96 Avalon that my ex-girlfriend couldn’t be bothered to come pick up from my house… so I gave her $1000 cash I scraped together, got it registered, and drove it for a year and a half. For such a cheap beater, it treated me VERY well for that time, and I even sold it for $1500 last month!
A couple of years ago my neighbours were selling one of their parents Avalons. Had I remotely been in the market for a car at the time I would have jumped all over it. Between the two of them there are 4 or 5 children in their 20s and I’m surprised that they didn’t snag it for one of them to replace one of the many older trouble prone VWs they drive.
You can buy one at an estate sale and cruise it until your estate sale comes around. The circle of life.
I know someone who was a long-time salesman at a Lincoln-Mercury dealership, he used to joke about telling customers that the Grand Marquis was so nice, it was guaranteed to be the last car they’d ever buy
My grandma bought one used back in maybe…2004? She’s 85 and still driving it.
I approve this message.
I am helping a twenty-year-old family member look for a car, and the Avalon is one I keep pushing. Of course, the 20-year-old keeps sending me links ot things like Infiniti G50s and BMWs with rebuilt titles listed on Facebook.
You do what you can, but you can’t stop someone from making the bad decision that they already wanted to make.
I am getting a little traction on a 2011 Scion TC. Wish me luck!
Older xB and fill the inside with good audio equipment? I feel like these were all meant for DJs and musicians anyway. Especially with the ground effects kits and lights.
you can lead a child to culture,
but you can’t make them think.
Every time I visit Bard College, I notice the Bard Horticulture trucks and think of Dorothy Parker.
The Avalon is pretty much a Lexus for those who don’t want to buy a luxury badge. Fantastic car, so long as you’ve accepted that it won’t be an engaging car to drive.
But, there’s nothing wrong with a comfy cruiser. I actually wonder if this could take a more modern head unit. The stereo looks like a standard double din. That update would fix what is probably the one shortcoming from this car.
I bet it would; when I bought an 88 4Runner about a decade ago, I was looking on the forums for some stereo swap info. At the time, one of the “hot” cheap stereo mods was to snag a stereo from a newish Scion TC; Toyota connectors were exactly the same as they were in the 80s. I have to assume you could throw a newer Toyota double din in there without much fuss.
Wow that’s impressive you can just throw in a new stereo from a newer car. I’m impressed lol.
I had an 85 Toyota truck and I remember the stereo almost being on the ground. Definitely not a good spot to put in an AA/Car Play stereo lol. Thankfully on my Solara they designed it with nav in mind, so the head unit upgrade I did is still at a good high spot in the dash.
Fun fact I learned when I had my truck. In ’87 they introduced a new dashboard. Teenage me bought a dash from a later model for an interior color swap and everything bolted right up. Even the back of the dashboard for the incline meter had cutouts in the metal backplate so I could easily get perfect placement when I put in the incline meter from the junkyard.
I’d argue that the 2nd gen and newer are at least somewhat engaging, and the 1st gen is surprisingly quick in a straight line and has a higher top speed than several performance cars of the era.
Haha that’s awesome it has some level of sleeper performance cred. The TRD edition Avalon looked promising though.
It surprised the shit out of me the first time I floored it with the “O/D OFF” button on the shifter and the “PWR” button on the dash both engaged. When I found out that different car magazines were able to get high 15 second runs out of it in the quarter mile… well… a good driver in a ’96 Avalon just might win against a bad driver in a ’96 Mustang GT. The top speed was 137mph, all of 3mph slower than that same Mustang.
I played with the idea of building my beater Avalon into a sleeper street/strip car or a Lemons car when I no longer needed it, but I sold it instead.
I don’t know about the Bose versions, but the base was just a standard double DIN, as you said. You can do a single DIN with the pocket or go fancier. Pretty simple install.
Another nice thing about (most) older vehicles.
And you don’t need to worry about the connectors, wiring harnesses from Metra or whoever are dirt cheap if you don’t (and I don’t blame you) want to wire it yourself.
Last time I did an install I just paid Crutchfield to solder the wiring harness to everything, which included the modules for steering wheel controls and factory amp. The 25 bucks was well worth it to save me the trouble to make everything plug n play, except for splicing in a parking brake override. And I had enough work already getting a camera routed, spliced into the car’s wiring, etc.
Yup, Crutchfield used to be where you’d do research (because they had the best information) and then buy the products at a discount somewhere else.
But they’re generally pretty competitive based on the limited research I’ve done recently for installs and offer a bunch of reasonable options that save a lot of time and hassle. I still prefer to do the wiring harnesses myself, but I can understand taking advantage of that service when you’ve already got a lot on your plate.
Grandma cars FTW.
I like the exterior styling on these, but I hate too much matte silver plastic on any interior. At least the final year had a facelift with a more modern looking dash.
at least its not piano black
Nothing a can of spray paint can’t fix.
Another timing chain related problem is with the VVti system, and it takes the same 17+ hours to fix. You’ll know by a rattle on a cold startup.
Old timing chains on OHV engines that didn’t need adjusters or to run around guides were very reliable, but contrary to DT’s position on timing chains being superior to timing belts, I think there is just as much chance for trouble with either modern design, with the exception that most timing belts are designed to be changed and therefore access is a little easier. So you’re trading a guaranteed but cheaper timing belt swap over a potentially more expensive timing chain issues. Failure of either can wreck an engine entirely.
I just can’t find any evidence of timing chain failure on a 2GR.
I’m sure it’s happened at least a few times because there’s probably well over a million examples out there, but it’s certainly not something to be concerned about if you’re considering buying a vehicle with this engine.
Several years ago, a friend of mine did a timing belt on a late 1MZ Canadian Sienna, and it was a brutal 20 plus hour job, most of which involved extracting broken bolts. If it wasn’t his daughter’s car, it would have been mechanically totalled.
In the example of the Toyota 2GR, DT is absolutely correct.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPwPM3wbZNo
Given that the one I owned had the rattle from the cam phasor going out, I have a 100% rate of failure. Also note that in the video the chain didn’t break, but the cams got so out of sync it allowed piston to valve contact.
The video has nothing to do with a timing chain failure.
In this recalled issue, if the recall was ignored long enough, the bolts for the cam phaser would back out, causing the engine to lose timing.
It sounds like only a few models were affected.
Seriously, it’s one of the most reliable V6s ever made.
That’s the thing with modern timing chains – the chains themselves don’t break, the system breaks. Cam phasor problems are rampant across many makes, and timing chain guide problems are also common.
I hear what you’re saying. In something like an Audi, these systems can be overly complex, poorly engineered, and unreliable. Problems can be rampant just as you stated.
The thing is, these problems aren’t rampant in the 2GR. They are rare, and that’s something that’s true for nearly all Toyota engines, and many other modern chain equipped engines.
Interference belted engines on the other hand, are all ticking time bombs if the belt change was neglected, regardless of brand or design quality.
My preference is a non inference timing belt.
So I’ve only had one timing belt job done, but from my single experience, I was surprised at how much smoother my engine ran after. Besides the full kit including a new water pump, no other work was done on the engine. Maybe an oil change I can’t remember.
So while it did cost 1.7k (might’ve been able to get it done a little cheaper elsewhere but the shop I went to does great work so it was worth the premium), I didn’t feel all to bad considering the overall improvement.
I guess at least with a timing belt you can plan ahead. With a chain, seems like not so much.
I’m also convinced the timing belt is a reason that a lot of otherwise good used cars are on the market. The owner was probably told they needed a new one, looked at the price, and for whatever reason (the car was old, didn’t have the money up front, etc) decided to get rid of it.
I think every owner’s preference would be a non-interference engine if they’re belt driven (or otherwise), but they’re not very common because of efficiency pursuits.
Like fifteen years ago I had a friend with a second gen Avalon. He needed some help replacing the factory radio that had died, so I volunteered to help. The car was immaculate, with almost no wear on the inside and nice, glossy paint on the outside, so it was a bit surprising that the factory radio had died. It wasn’t until I had the new radio installed and turned the key to test it that I discovered the car had 380,000 miles on it. Ever since that day I have had an appreciation for the Avalon, even if I would rather have a Lexus ES.
Yeah, these are really “mileage is just a number” cars, obviously maintenance is key, but the materials Toyota used do seem to shrug off wear and tear a lot better than most other cars. Which is also a big factor in motivating owners to actually take care of them, since it takes forever for them to actually start showing their age
My brother owned a first gen one and it too had a shit ton of miles on it when he sold it. As in- he wasn’t aware it had a timing belt and we changed it at 320,000 miles. And he abused the hell out of it, only changing the oil when I suggested it.
These are basically Lexus ES350’s with arguably better looks.
Yes, this is 100% correct, and you might even find an Avalon-twin ES for the same price.
I may be a middle-aged duffer, but I am nowhere near old enough to drive a Buick, be it an American one or a Japanese one. Hard pass. I have had these as rentals, they are four wheeled sleeping pills that make a Camry seems “sporty” and “exciting”.
I don’t know man, some of those 3800s and 3800 SCs were pretty damn fiesty.
There were more than a few Regals that could absolutely move, at least in a straight line. Perfect sleeper cars and they liked mods.
Key words “in a straight line”. And I do not worship at the alter of the 3800.
And I prefer fancy Camry interior ambiance to whatever GM was doing.
That’s why I made sure to include those key words 😉
The 3800 has always been good to me and it’s surprisingly efficient on the highway for how powerful it is down low, you just have to watch out for the intake on some years. Get the replacement with the metal sleeve and you can go back to beating on that engine and waiting for the car to fall apart around it.
I like the bench seating options but i can understand that GM from that period isn’t everyone’s cup of tea. I still think that engine is one of the best they’ve ever turned out though.
The best engine GM ever turned out is not a high bar. Small block Chevy excepted, of course.
GM seats and my back do not get along. Nor Japanese seats, to be fair. French, German, Swedish, in that order.
Agree to disagree I guess. The 3800 is dead-simple, reliable, barely awake when cruising at speed, has torque available at low RPMs, and is solidly built so it doesn’t mind forced air or light mods. It also delivers decent (even by today’s standards) fuel economy for being stuck in larger vehicles.
That’s a pretty successful recipe for a DD IMO.
Plus they were virtually unkillable during the cash-for-clunkers program. Some really good 3800 stories abound from that time.
But I can absolutely understand not wanting a domestic interior from that era. As the body ages, it requires certain accommodations. I love my DD but the seats are brutal (my wife loves them, go figure). I would much prefer a comfy couch in there to cushion my lanky frame.
It sounds like ass, comes generally only with antidiluvian autotragics, and is bolted into cars I can’t stand. <shrug> It could be the second coming of the Ferrari 3.0L V8, and bolted under the hood of a Buick I have zero interest in it at all.
It came in a ton of different cars, from a few Olds models, Park Avenues, and Rivieras to your Grand Prix, Monte Carlos, Firebirds, and Camaros. You can basically pick any size/personality that you want. People even swap them into Fieros all the time.
Bone stock – https://youtube.com/shorts/henNrZu9YBA?si=8lzR0c8cEdlDoWfx
I think they sound pretty good natively, but you can get crazy beyond the factory supercharged variants and do supercharger + turbo, manual swap, basically whatever.
This car is likely near impossible to keep on the road with the torque steer, but it shows some possibilities.
https://www.facebook.com/100044817189546/videos/a-530hp-pontiac-grand-prix-gtp-makes-no-sense/1630257094223592/
There’s also videos of a VERY high revving version.
Besides all that you’ve got most torque available at below 2k RPM, who says no?
I like the combo of sedate highway cruiser along with sleeper power on hand if you need it. For this reason I gravitate more towards the Regal GS flavor, but even an Olds 98 with the OG LN3 can be a sweet ride.
A Camry can be had with 300 horses and decent amenities, so I would never poo-poo that choice, but I think you’re sleeping on the 3800s and comparable year Camrys aren’t exactly known for being any more exciting. Probably less so.
There is not a single one of those cars that I have the slightest interest in, and I would buy a good pair of sneakers before I bought a Camry for myself (respect them and loathe them in equal measure). My idea of a highway sleeper is a Mercedes station wagon – and my E350 will blow the doors off anything with a 3800 in it, with a much higher level of refinement in every possible way. Does it cost more to run? Yup, you betcha – you get what you pay for.
This is a dog that doesn’t hunt, as the saying goes. I don’t DO American cars as a general rule (have had far too many as rentals over the course of my travelling career. so it’s not due to lack of exposure), exceptions made for certain Jeeps. So the cult of the 3800 is not one there is the slightest chance of my ever joining.
Yeah, less than zero interest in a Mercedes here, unless it’s Streeter.
Look at all the fun you’re missing out on (with a powerplant transplant into a Fiero, as I mentioned, to boot) – https://www.theautopian.com/sparking-joy-and-plugs-how-to-repurpose-a-31yr-old-junk-buick/
Your loss.
Not in any way my idea of a good time. I don’t do janky.
Friday night, I’m scanning Facebook, all the sellers charging way too much.
Turning over to Car Gurus, Great Price deals all seem out of touch.
Looking back through time, you know it’s clear that I’ve been blind, I’ve been a fool.
Ignoring all the big Toyotas, thinking they’d make me look like a basic tool.
And if you want it, go and buy it! For crying out loud.
The 2GR is so rock solid, I never had a doubt.
Let go of your heart, rely on your head, and buy it now.
Avalon.
With 3800 LeSabres and Park Avenues getting pretty well all used up and run way below into the ground, this is probably the effective replacement. Avalons don’t seem to have been put through the wringer as badly as same year Buicks
You’re right about those 3800s, the last ones were built in 2009. The LeSabres, Park Avs, and Bonnevilles from 2000-2005 are pretty much worn out by now.
And most of the Lucernes and LaCrosses with the 3800 are at 200k+ miles or very battered or both.
I forget which car it was, but the interiors were just tragic. With HVAC and radio buttons already worn off at an early age. Even with the 3800 underneath, I could never bring myself to look at them seriously. The interiors were SOOO cheap, and that’s grading on a 2000s era GM scale.
You’re not wrong, the hard plastic was a bit annoying at times. BUT that shit was bulletproof, you could scrub it hard and it would come out clean every time. Errant shoe soles and UV rays could not affect it at all. And the buttons you speak of were on the W-bodies, not the G/H/C bodies. There are replacement stickers on the web for those worn-out, illegible W buttons!
Yup, you’re right, I was talking about these. https://www.reddit.com/r/Buick/comments/1h3o28l/my_2008_lacrosse/
I don’t think I was trying to pinpoint body types anywhere, just that I discounted a model year-range entirely with the 3800 because they couldn’t even be bothered to create a decent interior where the HVAC control labels didn’t disappear in short order.
I’m fine with hard plastic, as long as it’s on non-routine touch surfaces. Makes it easier to clean and stand up to dogs and kids.
On my previous ’04 LeSabre, the backlighting on the stereo and climate control buttons were long gone. I had to memorize the climate buttons so I could operate them at night!
Sounds about right. Those LeSabres weren’t bad looking on the outside at least.