Home » Why You Should Lease A New EV, But Buy A Used One

Why You Should Lease A New EV, But Buy A Used One

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Here at The Morning Dump World Data Center, our diligent staff of news elves is committed to avoiding the pitfalls of other morning automotive news roundups by embracing nuance and refusing to paint with a broad brush. Also, when it comes to the EV market, please allow me to paint a picture with a brush as wide as the Río de la Plata.

Consumers who wanted an EV as fast as they could get their hands on one probably already have an EV. It’s debatable, but I think a lot of people who were even tilted toward an EV purchase likely have entered the market as well. That brings us to the third tranche of people who could use an electric car without issue (people with regular commutes and charging ability at/near their homes) and are open to it. Today’s advice, based on the latest data, is for them.

Vidframe Min Top
Vidframe Min Bottom

Speaking of data, the EPA has issued final rules on fuel economy requirements, and they’re not too bad if you’re an automaker. The car industry won this round, but I think it’s still aggressive enough to be achievable.

Life is a game of numbers and odds, but that doesn’t mean you should submit yourself to fate. The most successful out there tilt the universe to improve their odds, which is what Elon Musk is trying to do with his compensation hanging in the balance. The National Automobile Dealers Association is trying to do the same by getting the latest rules on dealers blocked.

Why Used EVs Are Such A Good Deal, And Why I’d Be Hesitant To Buy A New One

Autotrader 2014 Tesla Model S White
Source: Autotrader

The big existential question for me in the automotive world is not whether Chinese EV automakers will crush everyone else, it’s whether or not this generation of electric car is worth buying.

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It varies a lot by automaker, but the general sense I have is that the answer is: probably not. On the extreme end of advancement are cars like the Lucid Air, Rivian R1S/T, and the Tesla Model Y. These all represent approximately the best you’re going to get out of the extant anode/cathode chemistry. Will these cars continue to improve and get better over time? Absolutely. Could something come after that’s just much better and cheaper? I think there’s a strong possibility that the answer is yes.

For most other automakers, even their best electric cars are imperfect in some way. GM’s Ultium platform is too heavy, Ford’s EVs are fine but also interim products, and most of the European cars are too expensive for what you get. Basically all the Japanese EVs are also-ran vehicles. Probably the best non-Tesla/Lucid/Rivian EVs are from Hyundai-Kia-Genesis, but those vehicles don’t have incentives if you buy one and are thus $7,500 more expensive than everything else.

Here’s why a next-gen EV might be better, depending on the company:

  • It might be cheaper. Tax incentives aren’t going anywhere and almost every foreign automaker is trying to build a plant in the United States to make EVs that qualify for tax credits.
  • The tech might improve dramatically. Toyota is working on solid-state batteries and they’re not alone. Elon Musk is trying to build cars with even more advanced driverless aids.

You can also add to these concerns the fact that we’ve been in the middle of a massive price war that’s made new electric cars cheaper while also undercutting people who just bought electric cars by lowering their residual values, which means they’ll be worth less when it’s time to sell.

Ok, so what are you to do with this information if you need a car now?

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Screenshot 2024 05 22 114043

Lease an electric car.

Leasing is not ideal in every situation, but at the moment the lease deals are insane for new EVs for a number of reasons. The biggest one is a loophole that allows cars not built in North America to qualify for the $7,500 tax credit. Also, if the tech gets way better or prices drop it’s not really of big concern to you since your price is locked in already.

Manheim Used Vehicle Index

Buy a used electric car.

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The latest Manheim Used Value Index is out and it shows the value of a used EV is down 16.0% year-over-year in May, compared to just an 11.6% adjustment for non-EVs. The massive drops in new EV pricing, combined with Hertz offloading thousands of Teslas, means the premium for these cars has been absorbed to the point that you’d have to get a lemon to be unable to get your value back.

Obviously, there are some big exceptions here (the Model Y and new Equinox EV are competitively priced, and cars like the Mach-E do have a lot of incentives), but I think this advice works for most people.

Fuel Economy Rules Should Result In 50.4 MPG By 2031

Many groups lobbied hard against huge increases in fuel economy requirements that were initially proposed by the Biden Administration, which initially called for big fines and changes that would see the nation’s average fuel economy for most passenger vehicles to rise to 58 mpg by 2032. The new requirements revise that down to about 50.4 mpg by 2031, and 35 mpg for big trucks and vans.

Here’s what the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration is saying about the changes:

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In this final rule, fuel economy will increase 2% per year for model years 2027-2031 for passenger cars, while light trucks will increase 2% per year for model years 2029-2031. These increases will bring the average light-duty vehicle fuel economy up to approximately 50.4 miles per gallon by model year 2031, saving passenger car and light truck owners more than $600 in fuel over the lifetime of their vehicles

Heavy-duty pickup truck and van fuel efficiency will increase 10% per year for model years 2030-2032 and 8% per year for model years 2033-2035. This will result in a fleetwide average of approximately 35 miles per gallon by model year 2035, saving heavy-duty pickup and van owners more than $700 in fuel over the lifetime of their vehicles.

“Not only will these new standards save Americans money at the pump every time they fill up, they will also decrease harmful pollution and make America less reliant on foreign oil,” U.S. Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg said. “These standards will save car owners more than $600 in gasoline costs over the lifetime of their vehicle.”

The other big news here is that the massively proposed fines have been pared back a lot. It’s possible that many automakers can avoid them altogether. Obviously, automakers are happy about this. Here’s the head of the big nationwide lobbying group in a Reuters article  via the Detroit Free Press:

John Bozzella, who heads the Alliance for Automotive Innovation trade group representing major automakers, praised the revisions that will dramatically reduce projected penalties that his members had feared.

“Those fines wouldn’t have produced any environmental benefits or additional fuel economy and would’ve foolishly diverted automaker capital away from the massive investments required by the electric vehicle transition,” Bozzella said.

Again, environmentalists aren’t happy (one told Reuters that NHTSA had “caved to automaker pressure.”)

I consider myself an environmentalist and I’m not too disturbed by the rule change. These seem like much more achievable goals and this will push way more automakers/people towards hybrids. Plus, it’s not like this is going to be achievable only with hybrids, automakers are going to have to sell a lot of electric cars to make the math work.

And, finally, politics plays into this a lot. The Biden Administration seems to want inflation down so it’s not a campaign issue and so that the Fed cuts rates this summer, thus setting off a potential positive economic swing that makes consumers feel better about the economy.

Tesla Needs Small Shareholder Stans For $56 Billion Payday

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Tesla CEO Elon Musk seems kinda desperate to get small shareholders to back his bid to get the highest paycheck in human history, even as some larger shareholders are indicating they’re going to vote against Musk.

I have no Tesla shares directly, so it’s a not-my-pig/not-my-farm type of situation. I do share Musk’s penchant for LOLs, and so whatever is going to be the most amusing outcome is sort of the outcome I want, which could be Tesla losing and Elon Musk performatively quitting the company.

The gamble Musk is making (and, in our version of capitalism it makes 100% sense for him to do whatever he can to get $56 billion) is that smaller shareholders probably love him and don’t want to see him quit.

Per Reuters:

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Although small investors have an array of opinions, experts in corporate vote campaigns say the size and CEO-friendly nature of many individual investors at Tesla make them an obvious target.

“The man ends up 10x-ing my investment and he’s given nothing? It doesn’t seem right or fair,” said Andrew Theyken Bench, a lawyer in Allentown, Pennsylvania with fewer than 5,000 Tesla shares, who voted by proxy with management on all items at the meeting, including Musk’s pay.

The big issue is that “retail” investors don’t typically vote in these things, so Tesla needs to incentivize them, which explains the contest in the tweet above.

Some Dealers Don’t Like The Idea Of Consumer Protection

Ftccarsruleinfographic Hi Res

The Federal Trade Commission issued rules last year to try to protect consumers from specific types of dealership behavior, including sneaking in random fees and products into the final cost.

Dealers are trying to kill this rule by using Congress to specify in the FTC’s new budget that it can’t spend any money rolling out or enforcing the rule according to Automotive News:

U.S. House subcommittee on June 5 advanced a $23.6 billion Financial Services and General Government Appropriations bill that includes $388.7 million in FTC funding for the fiscal year ending Sept. 30, 2025 — and prohibits any of that money from being spent rolling out or enforcing the CARS Rule.

FTC spokesperson Jay Mayfield said the agency had no comment on the bill.

The full House Appropriations Committee has yet to vote on the legislation. But Chairman Tom Cole, R-Okla., said prior to the subcommittee’s vote June 5 the measure made “sensible cuts to federal financial and consumer protection agencies and prohibits funding for their overreaching, harmful, regulatory policies.”

As a reminder, these “harmful” regulatory policies include banning bait-and-switch claims, advertising vehicles that are not on the lot as available, and misleading buyers about the availability of discounts/rebates.

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What I’m Listening To While Writing TMD

I’m a big fan of Jamie xx and his band The xx. He’s got a new album coming out later summer and, when it’s out, I’ll be sure to share a track. I’m actually such a fan of Jamie xx that I excitedly volunteered to clear a track from one of his albums for a commercial project I was working on, which ended up being an enormous, almost 5-month-long PITA. It sucked so hard and I had to spend so much time groveling to Brian Wilson’s lawyers. And, yet, I still am a fan of the band.

The Big Question

What’s the best used EV deal you’ve seen? Or new EV lease?

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Who Knows
Who Knows
1 month ago

I don’t pay any real attention to EV prices, since there’s nothing out there yet that I’d be interested in upgrading to, but saw this recently, which would qualify for the best deal I’ve heard about- https://www.npr.org/2024/06/05/nx-s1-4985912/how-a-colorado-woman-bought-a-used-ev-for-less-than-700

Aerostarman89
Aerostarman89
1 month ago

I actually just bought a used EV this weekend! I am now the proud owner of a 2016 E-Golf. The little 80 mile range is perfect for my 45 mile commute daily. Charges up to full overnight. Its not the fastest, but it is significantly more fun than the 2012 Fusion it replaced. I got a great deal at $10,999 for 58k miles.

Waremon0
Waremon0
1 month ago

Does Tesla need Elon more or does Elon need Tesla more? Without Tesla, will Elon still have the power and influence he does with just Twitter/X, SpaceX, and Neuralink?

Will Tesla collapse if Elon leaves?

I think the cult of Elon hinges on his wild claims about the future of Tesla.

At this point, I think Tesla needs real managerial leadership and stability with all the recent competition if they hope to survive as a CAR company. As a tech company, who knows. Tech valuations are all imaginary and based on hopes and dreams.

Paint-Drinking Thundercock Harvey Park
Paint-Drinking Thundercock Harvey Park
1 month ago
Reply to  Waremon0

I feel Tesla without Musk could be Uber without Kalanick. I.E. a professionally managed company that tries to improve its tenuous attachment to legality and labor.

Fahfoofnik
Fahfoofnik
1 month ago

Bit of a different take: we scored a solid deal for financing an EV: 17% off MSRP…plus 3.99% APR. Just pulled the trigger around the 1st of June. Leasing is not an option for us & our driving situation; even with the huge breaks a lease would have still cost us more in the end.

Not to mention that even with terrific credit, used car interest rates are outrageous. It didn’t make any sense fiscally to purchase a used EV with the high interest rates and have a used EV for the money.

The way we did it was order an EV to the perfect spec for us, using a dealership allocation; sold one of our vehicles privately for more than it was worth; use those funds as a downpayment on our custom/perfect-for-us EV; and use the 3.99% APR plus about $10,000 off MSRP. At least in our situation, it was the way to go.

10001010
10001010
1 month ago

As a small shareholder of TSLA I recently voted against the compensation plan for 1 reason, layoffs. Prior to the layoffs I would have voted for it simply because they set goals for him and as CEO he met those goals and since an agreement is an agreement, pay him.

However laying off 10% of your workforce to remain profitable while also taking the largest paycheck in history just doesn’t sit right with me. Downturns will always happen but the paycuts should come from the top down since they’re the ones responsible for structuring the company to better survive downturns in the first place.

Parsko
Parsko
1 month ago

Bolt EUV is by far the best deal in town, IMHO. I live in CT, and we have the CHEAPR rebate, which offers $4250 on any 2023 and newer when purchased within the state of CT. Many are below $20k, giving you a 1 year old car with <20k miles, at least 6 more years of warranty, all for:
~$16k

AssMatt
AssMatt
1 month ago

It always stuck out to me that Doofenshmirtz HQ looked like Ferb’s head.

Spikersaurusrex
Spikersaurusrex
1 month ago

Congress is trying to stop the FTC from telling car dealers they have to be honest… Of course they are. The corruption never ceases to amaze me.

I know it’s cool to say regulations are bad and we should leave businesses alone to make as much money as they can, but come on. The rules FTC don’t harm anyone, or require anyone behaving honestly to make any changes. On the other hand, they outlaw common dishonest practices, which would really help the average car buyer. Of course, the average car buyer isn’t represented by congress because they don’t have enough money to count.

Mike B
Mike B
1 month ago

Isn’t it great that our elected officials are so clearly for sale to the highest bidder, representing at best 10% of the electorate. Congress has like a 90% reelection rate and a 10% approval rate.

Ranked choice voting would be a better way to hold them accountable, but of course that’s an uphill battle.

Fasterlivingmagazine
Fasterlivingmagazine
1 month ago

“Elon Musk is trying to build cars with even more advanced driverless aids.” I do enjoy the little jokes you slide into your articles.

Stig's Cousin
Stig's Cousin
1 month ago

I still maintain used Leafs can be a fantastic deal. You can get a used 2G Leaf for as low as $9,000 (not including tax credits) with a little effort. This will get you a car with a real-world range of 100+ miles that will last for years with essentially no maintenance. They are not a road trip machine, but they are excellent vehicles for local transportation.

Also, for the 400th time, the passively air-cooled batteries are not a problem. The early batteries (pre-2015) failed quickly, but batteries with the updated chemistry have held up well. Occasional fast charging will not kill these batteries. If you primarily use level 1 or 2 charging, you can expect these batteries to last for years.

Last edited 1 month ago by Stig's Cousin
Andrew Daisuke
Andrew Daisuke
1 month ago
Reply to  Stig's Cousin

I have a 15 leaf and it is awesome. it’s such a perfect city commuter car. 95% battery life left, 39K miles, paid 4K for it.

Last edited 1 month ago by Andrew Daisuke
JaredTheGeek
JaredTheGeek
1 month ago

A used EV is great if its one of the modern used EVs. Stear clear of Nissan Leafs if you need to publicly charge or anything with just an air cooled battery because those are going to fail quickly. Old Model S cars when they had the black nose cone, after that refresh with the newer batteries they are lasting much longer as are the drive motors.

I have seen great Bolt, Mach E, and Polestar 2 used deals around my area.

Govinator3
Govinator3
1 month ago

My buddy is planning to sell his Bolt EV with a new battery for $10,500. I think he is planning to use a service like keysavvy as a pass through dealer to get the 4k used tax credit applied. Someone is going to get a decently low mileage bolt for under $6500 which seems like a fantastic deal.

Parsko
Parsko
1 month ago
Reply to  Govinator3

This, the Bolt is the best deal, by far. I have them in the upper teens in my state, with a $4250 tax credit. Can’t beat that with a bat!

Protodite
Protodite
1 month ago
Reply to  Govinator3

I mean I’d be quite interested in being that buyer! I’ve been looking at bolts for my fiancé who is starting a new job in PA. It’s a straight shot commute and I think the bolt could be killer for that use case

Dinklesmith
Dinklesmith
1 month ago
Reply to  Protodite

As a Bolt owner, it’ll be one of the best decisions you make. They’re amazing cars

Protodite
Protodite
1 month ago
Reply to  Dinklesmith

Thanks! They’ve intrigued me for a while, but the price points they’re at on the used market makes it almost a no brainer!

PresterJohn
PresterJohn
1 month ago

I’m going to go for a different response and tell everyone looking for a 2nd or 3rd car to look at used Mazda MX-30s. They’re getting down into the low 20s/high teens and could go even lower if you qualify for any tax incentives.

Remember the knock on them was that their price was terrible for the ~100 mile range, but for less than half original MSRP and only two years old they are super nice inside and would make for a great commuter. Plus you can say you have an EV that goes more than 3 times as far as David’s Leaf!

JaredTheGeek
JaredTheGeek
1 month ago
Reply to  PresterJohn

They are still not worth it. You can find Bolts for that price with much better range. 100 miles even for just commuting is terrible.

Last edited 1 month ago by JaredTheGeek
PresterJohn
PresterJohn
1 month ago
Reply to  JaredTheGeek

Yeah the Bolt is the better overall value. But if you’re in the majority of Americans for whom 100 miles would work for their daily commute, the MX-30 isn’t a bad option as a second/third car. The Bolt can’t really be your only car either with its poor charging speed.

Also, interior and exterior design is a big advantage for the MX-30. To put it gently, the Bolt isn’t winning any beauty contests for either the interior or exterior. The facelift was an improvement for sure but it still has the look of an economy car.

Justtherejames
Justtherejames
1 month ago

I was faced with the choice between leasing a new EV and buying an used one and decided to buy a CPO ’22 Polestar 2 with 20k miles on it. It still has two years and 30k left on the original warranty and the CPO warranty added two extra years and unlimited miles. At almost half of its original price and no sales tax for EVs in NJ, I think it was a pretty good deal.

WaitWaitOkNow
WaitWaitOkNow
1 month ago
Reply to  Justtherejames

Solid. I’m about to turn my 3 y/o XC40 Recharge lease in for folks like you. Buying it at market price would save me thousands vs. buying out my lease. We’re likely going to buy a lightly used EV this summer.

MrLM002
MrLM002
1 month ago

35 mpg for big trucks and vans

If the PT Cruiser can legally be a Truck then I imagine the average fuel economy in 2031 will be 35 MPG across the board.

Querty
Querty
1 month ago

Allow me to disagree. There will never be a “good enough” generation of EVs to buy, as these things will keep evolving like smartphones do.
Buying a deeply depretiated one is a hell of a risk, as you (probably) won’t be equipped to do any fixing on old high-voltage batteries and system (like you could with a dirt-cheap depreciated BMW).

Enjoy your new lifetime lease situation – that’s the price of progress

Cryptoenologist
Cryptoenologist
1 month ago
Reply to  Querty

As long as you don’t plan on keeping a used EV for a super long time they are still a safe bet. The minimum battery warranty is 8 years/100k miles, and covers much more than the battery itself. So getting a 2 year old used EV gives you 6 more years of coverage unless you drive a ton. Kia/Hyundai and several others are 10 years/100k. My 5 year old Kia Niro EV shows no signs of battery degradation.

We will need to figure out what to do about these cars for later owners- it’s not sustainable for there to be a tsunami of vehicles turning into bricks. Battery remanufacturing and refurbishment policies probably need to be mandated.

Peter Andruskiewicz
Peter Andruskiewicz
1 month ago
Reply to  Querty

I think “good enough” is something that each consumer needs to judge, in the same way they would judge that for an ICE vehicle. Maybe you’ve decided that a BEV will never be “good enough” for you, and that’s fine but in that case you aren’t in the market or the target for this info.

The author is arguing that right now, it makes sense to lease if looking at new vehicles, especially if it lets you get a vehicle that you want but otherwise wouldn’t qualify for the $7500. Not only will that change as automakers respond to the on-shoring requirements of the IRA, but we’re at a point in time where development in cell energy density, heat generation, and cycle life is rapidly increasing, so each subsequent generation or update of a vehicle is getting substantially better battery, motor & inverter tech which can manifest as more range, faster charging, more performance, or lower cost. Therefore, let the automaker or the banks eat the difference between what you pay and the vehicle depreciation for the first few years, since it can be substantial especially with the rate of improvement.

Also, maybe fixing high-voltage batteries isn’t common outside of specialized shops now, but neither was working on fuel injection systems, automatic transmissions etc as they entered the market either.

Viking Longcar
Viking Longcar
1 month ago
Reply to  Querty

Why won’t there be a “good enough” generation? We don’t know yet.

Smartphones, despite what the manufacturers will tell us, have matured and the additional capabilities of new releases today are not really notable – certainly not compared to the regular leaps in what a new phone offered ten years ago.

Eventually EVs will mature- and the odds are that those batteries will not depreciate as rapidly or in as risky a fashion as what we have now- new or used. Toyota’s solid state batteries and all that.

Last edited 1 month ago by Viking Longcar
Spikersaurusrex
Spikersaurusrex
1 month ago
Reply to  Querty

Using your logic, you can argue that ICE vehicles will never be “good enough”. Safety standards keep moving, drivetrains keep evolving, interior content keeps evolving, etc. Let’s face it, newer and better is a real thing for pretty much everything. If you need a new car and an EV fits your circumstances, I don’t think it’s a worse choice than the ICE equivalent, if the price is right.

Davedave
Davedave
1 month ago
Reply to  Querty

There will never be a “good enough” generation of EVs to buy, as these things will keep evolving like smartphones do.”

But we have had ‘good enough’ smartphones to be worth buying for a good few years now. I really don’t understand why so many people spend huge amounts on bleeding edge phones, when the ~£100 ones are perfectly adequate for about 5 years use, if not a bit more if you’re undemanding.

Who Knows
Who Knows
1 month ago
Reply to  Querty

Meh, my 2017 Bolt has already paid for about 1/2 its purchase cost in fuel/maintenance savings vs. the ICE car it replaced. If it makes it another 100k miles without issues, it’ll pay for itself in the running cost savings. I’d say that’s certainly “good enough”. That said, I don’t care for new software/phones/etc, so no need to upgrade to the “software defined vehicle”, yuck

Pupmeow
Pupmeow
1 month ago

“The man ends up 10x-ing my investment and he’s given nothing? It doesn’t seem right or fair,” 

I’m no mathematician, but I think there are a few numbers between nothing and 56 billion.

Lockleaf
Lockleaf
1 month ago
Reply to  Pupmeow

In addition to the fact that Musk already owns vast shares of the company so EVERYTHING he did to increase share price has already resulted in vast gains for him personally.

RidesBicyclesButLovesCars
RidesBicyclesButLovesCars
1 month ago
Reply to  Pupmeow

I agree, there has to be a number between $0 and $56 billion that makes more sense. He doesn’t need (or deserve) 25% share of Tesla. I think his mind is already onto other things like AI and is unlikely to be interested in cars anymore.

Something people forget in the Musk payday argument is that he collects $0 salary from Tesla and TSLA doesn’t pay a dividend. He has been operating as CEO with no new Tesla compensation since at least 2018. That may explain part of his apparent detachment.

My proposal; Send the robotics and AI portions of Tesla into Musk’s new xAI company. Let that company handle the risk/rewards of getting FSD and AI correct. Find a new CEO for Tesla that acts like a rational adult rather than a chaotic startup madman. Send Musk out with a modest golden parachute with a big carrot if he solves FSD.

Harvey Firebirdman
Harvey Firebirdman
1 month ago

This has been my thought whenever the house I have for sale on VA sells to either lease an EV since the deals are really good right now or to just buy a used one since the resale value on EV’s has plummeted.

With my FJ having over 150k on it and my Cummins having over 250k on it it would be nice to have something newer that I would have to worry about less maintenance with. Crap oil changes alone on the Cummins take 12 quarts and it is burning about a quart or so every 1k miles or so. Even the FJ take 6.5 quarts and I do oil changes every ~5-7k miles. I also put rotella T6 in both of those which isn’t a cheap oil. Also driving 45 miles one way to work is a lot of miles per year.

Just sucks not really many EV’s out there that strike my fancy currently hoping the Rivian R3 actually becomes a thing. I like ioniq 5 but as I have said before I don’t care that battery coolant needs to be changed every 30k miles I would want less maintenance with my appliance mobile that is taking me to work. Really only ev I am currently interested in is probably the polestar 2 because it is the only one that looks like a normal car not a blob and is a bit more sporty.

Justtherejames
Justtherejames
1 month ago

I just bought a ’22 CPO Polestar 2 about a month ago. Loving it so far and see far fewer of them on the road than Tesla Model 3s which are everywhere.

Harvey Firebirdman
Harvey Firebirdman
1 month ago
Reply to  Justtherejames

Yeah reason why I like the Polestar 2 you don’t seem to see many of them though I did see more when I was working around DC around Chicago land though I may have only seen one or 2 on the road but also might be because the closet dealers are in Detroit and Minnesota. But yeah used ones with all packages seem to be going for like 30k which seems like a lot of vehicle for the price. If I do get one hopefully I can get a slightly used 23 or 24 by the time I am looking.

JaredTheGeek
JaredTheGeek
1 month ago
Reply to  Justtherejames

The cupholder situation in that car is a war crime though.

CampoDF
CampoDF
1 month ago
Reply to  JaredTheGeek

How they could design a car with only one functional cupholder up front despite the space to create any design they wanted to is beyond me and one of many reasons I couldn’t daily a Polestar 2. I love the way they look but there’s not enough function to justify the form.

Justtherejames
Justtherejames
1 month ago
Reply to  CampoDF

There are plenty of 3D printed cupholders out there to make or buy.

JaredTheGeek
JaredTheGeek
1 month ago
Reply to  Justtherejames

That’s a terrible solution though.

Red92svx
Red92svx
1 month ago
Reply to  CampoDF

I must be missing something… Isn’t there a cupholder in the center console, too? Just not easy enough to use?

Justtherejames
Justtherejames
1 month ago
Reply to  JaredTheGeek

Definitely its biggest interior flaw but I had to ask myself if cupholders would be a dealbreaker. I usually drink out of an bicycle water bottle so that fits in the door pocket and I let my passenger use the one cupholder that is easily accessible. Of course there is the extra cupholder in the center console but you have to keep the cover raised when using and I’d prefer to rest my elbow there instead.

Drew
Drew
1 month ago

What’s the best used EV deal you’ve seen? Or new EV lease?

I’m currently looking at both. Kia EV6s are going for pretty darn good lease deals, depending on length of lease, but there are used ones that are even more tempting. Found a GT-Line with almost 100k miles listed for 19,500, but they’ve already included the tax credit. Between that feeling shady and the miles, I passed. There are enough around the same price with lower mileage and dealers I’d rather work with.

I also ran across a dealership that specializes in lemon buybacks offering Mach Es and Lightnings at pretty reasonable prices, but some of the histories give me pause (in addition to disliking some things about the Mach E in general). They had a GT Performance for $33k, but it had repeat visits for the same issues, so I didn’t trust that it was fully repaired after the return.

Harvey Firebirdman
Harvey Firebirdman
1 month ago
Reply to  Drew

That is my concern with these early model year EV’s they most seem to have some type of software bugs or they constantly go back in for the same repairs over and over again. So I think if I buy used I will look for a 3rd or 4th model year vehicle. Guess this really goes for any new cars nowadays but it seems EV’s have a bit more issues could just be because they are under a microscope and “newer” tech.

Drew
Drew
1 month ago

I don’t know if these were actually software bugs or anything that would affect the model as a whole. It looked like they reinstalled the battery, bled the coolant, replaced the junction box, and reprogrammed the charger module. They had to do all the physical stuff twice before the return, as well as significantly correct the alignment at least once, which I hope was not because of the fancy magneride suspension, but I wonder if it was.

They said it was all tested and fixed, but they said that each time the first owner took it in…

Harvey Firebirdman
Harvey Firebirdman
1 month ago
Reply to  Drew

Yeah any time suspension seems to have some type of electrical or air control it just seems like something that will break later on and be replaced with standard shocks/struts and springs. Also with that vehicle going back multiple times for the same issues yeah I would run away especially if you said these were specialized in lemon vehicles that one may just be a true lemon.

Nsane In The MembraNe
Nsane In The MembraNe
1 month ago

Leasing an EV has always been the sensible decision and will remain the sensible decision.

Live2ski
Live2ski
1 month ago

Best EV lease deal I saw? 2024 Ioniq 5 Limited for $316/mo $0 down, 24 months. I was trying to get it, but unfortunately it was one of those scam ads for only 1 specific car. But I have also seen deals for the Ioniq 5 SEL for $99 plus around $3-4k down. This was a few months ago in Colorado.

Drive By Commenter
Drive By Commenter
1 month ago

Agreed that some specific present EV’s are sensible purchases. All the ones listed above are packaging marvels with lots of storage. They’ll be useful for years even with a degraded battery. Which since Lucid, Rivian and Tesla all shared some people at various times, shouldn’t be that big an issue. Tesla especially has shown they can make a long lasting pack.

Fuzzyweis
Fuzzyweis
1 month ago

Noting a typo “Why Used EVs Are Such A Good Deal, Any Why I’d Be Hesitant To Buy A New One” should be “Why Used EVs Are Such A Good Deal, AnD Why I’d Be Hesitant To Buy A New One”
I bought a used EV before it was cool and there were credits involved, but I think the best deals are actually on used Chevy Bolt EVs, there are many under $20k, most are only about 5-7 years old, and the older ones all got new batteries with more capacity than before, but the market deems them cheap so cheap they are.

Comparatively you can get a used Chevy Bolt with comparable miles and twice the range as say a same year/mileage e-Golf for slightly less, or, it’s crazy. Actually Konas Electrics are a decent price too, the e-Golfs and the like should be at least $5k cheaper.

Cryptoenologist
Cryptoenologist
1 month ago
Reply to  Fuzzyweis

Yeah some of the older-gen EVs are still sitting too high, even with credits. Numerous 125 mile range EVs trying to sell for $12k or more(e-golfs, but also Fiat 500e and don’t even ask about Mini Cooper SE) when you can get something with 200 miles of range for the same or a couple grand more.

Jon Myers
Jon Myers
1 month ago

I’ve bought 3 EVs. All used. One nice thing about buying a used Tesla from Tesla is that you get some time added to the full warrantee.

V10omous
V10omous
1 month ago

revise that down to about 50.4 mpg by 2031, and 35 mpg for big trucks and vans.

I assume these are the administrative “mpgs” that have zero basis in reality.

Bringing my truck to 35 mpg would save me $700 every 6 months, let alone over the lifetime of the vehicle.

Reasonable Pushrod
Reasonable Pushrod
1 month ago
Reply to  V10omous

The savings numbers they list don’t compute at all. If light trucks averaged 50.4 mpg, the savings would be astronomical.

V10omous
V10omous
1 month ago

That’s because using their fuzzy math, the current product mix already averages 40 something mpg I believe.

The actual number is something like 26 mpg; I’d be interested to know what the 50.4 target equates to in real world numbers.

Nathan
Nathan
1 month ago
Reply to  V10omous

There is an AP article from last Friday “Real-world mileage standard for new vehicles rising to 38 mpg in 2031 under new Biden rule”.
So if 50.4 turns into 38 for cars, 35 turns into 26.4 for trucks. (75.4%)
I think maybe the NHTSA numbers are what the vehicle could get at a steady 55 mph with the air conditioning off, so not completely fuzzy.

V10omous
V10omous
1 month ago
Reply to  Nathan

The optimistic numbers are based on the original MPG calculations in the 1970s. Not entirely sure how that procedure was carried out, but it was certainly not reflective of actual conditions. Window sticker numbers have been revised downward to be more realistic a couple times.

Rad Barchetta
Rad Barchetta
1 month ago
Reply to  V10omous

I just assume any number published by the federal government is cooked so long it’s nothing but a lump of carbon. Except my tax bill, or course.

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